Loading summary
Transcript72 lines
- [00:03]
Jack
What's the best time of day to get a deal? All day with Jack in the Box's.
- [00:07]
Phil
All day Big deal meal.
- [00:08]
Jack
You get to choose from four entrees.
- [00:10]
Phil
Like the supreme croissant and five tasty.
- [00:13]
Jack
Sides, plus a drink starting at $5.
- [00:16]
Phil
So hurry in or take your time.
- [00:18]
Jack
You've got all day at Jack.
- [00:20]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Every bite's a big deal.
- [00:25]
Jack
This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.
- [00:55]
Phil
You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook meat. Factor your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating. Your goals factor is dietitian approved, chef prepared and you plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor. Learn more@factormeals.com.
- [01:27]
Jack
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:32]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinwaleere. It was Liverpool legend Alan Hansen who famously said, you can't win anything with kids. On Sunday, Arsenal's teenagers took center stage as they dismantled the champions Miles Lewis Skelly.
- [01:48]
Phil
The boy becomes a man.
- [01:52]
Ayo Akinwaleere
What a hit, kids.
- [01:55]
Phil
What a star.
- [01:57]
Ayo Akinwaleere
So can Arteta's Arsenal win anything with kids? All right here for this one. Having been at the Emirates for the 51 demolition of Manchester City, we have the Athletics, Arsenal writer James McNicholas. And also joining us as well, lead writer for the Athletic FC newsletter, Phil Hay. James, have to come to you first. Five goals scored. More importantly, two teenagers on the score sheet. Amy Lawrence in her piece which is out on the Athletic right now, said, you know, seasons can pivot on moments. Was that moment Arsenal beating Manchester City 51 A pivotal moment for Arsenal season moving forward?
- [02:37]
Phil
I don't know. I think they had to do it. That's the thing. Arsenal come into every game at the moment with this huge pressure to not drop a single point. And Liverpool ramped that pressure up again on Saturday with a really good result at Bournemouth. I think all the Arsenal players, the staff, they would have had their eyes on that game as one where Liverpool might drop some points. They don't. They go and win there. So Arsenal come into this game knowing that anything left than a win and probably we're sitting here this morning saying the title's gone. So for them to win that resoundingly in those circumstances is really, really impressive. And it was a great occasion at the Emirates Stadium and the atmosphere was fantastic. You know, last week we saw Miles Lewiskelly sent off. He was subject to the headlines for a whole different reason. I think that is a moment that could be really bonding and pivotal for this squad because Arteta is a manager, we know what he's like. He'll use that, he'll foster that us against the world mentality and that Arsenal have gone on to win two games since then, one in the Champions League and one in the Premier League, which will be remembered for a very long time.
- [03:33]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, Phil, look, Arsenal kicked off that game nine points behind Liverpool in the Premier League title race. Liverpool obviously still have a game in hand which they'll be playing against Everton. You know, how telling was it the way Arsenal went about that match? Because Amy Lawrence in her match piece also said they played as if they felt they owed City some punishment. There was pent up emotion from the scars of recent battles and it all came tumbling out. I mean very dramatic. But you could see that needle on the field.
- [04:00]
James McNicholas
That's spot on. One, I would say is a statement when in the context of Arsenal against City. You can feel the shifting sands of what's happening to City and Guardiola at the moment. And I think you could feel yesterday the shift in the, the balance of power in the way that Arsenal are still very much in the title race and City of regressed to the point where they are absolutely out of it now. And no question about that at all, what I don't think it was was necessarily a statement win in the context of the Premier League table. And as James kind of alluded to there, that is because of Liverpool. Until Liverpool blink, Arsenal can't afford to drop points anywhere. The thing about Liverpool is they do keep passing every single test. I mean they managed to stall the Bournemouth Express on Saturday, which very few other teams have been able to do recently. You know, James is saying that the staff at Arsenal players at Arsenal would have looked to that game to have helped them out. I think equally Liverpool would have looked for much more yesterday than City tipping up at the Emirates and capitulating completely. That's the sort of fixture you hope might work for you, even though you're, you're not involved. But City's record against Arsenal has always been very, very strong. And I think there'll be a lot of satisfaction behind the scenes today about how that went and, and how, how power does seem to have shifted in that particular rivalry. I, I've said, every time we've spoken about Arsenal, I've kind of said this, and I'll. I'll say it again. I don't think they've done a huge amount wrong in the League this season. They, they haven't been perfect. That's pretty evident. But, you know, they've kind of gone from City piecing together relentless form to win the title to Liverpool now doing exactly the same. And Arteta does need to win a title. His record at Arsenal isn't going to shine without it. But he does have the misfortune of continuing to encounter almost untouchable teams.
- [05:39]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I wonder, on a personal note, regardless of what happens for Arteta this season and Arsenal this season, James just mentally beating the master in such a way and what that does for you, for your career trajectory, and you're thinking, yeah, a lot hasn't gone our way this season, but look what we've just achieved. If we get everything right, gents, this is what we can do.
- [05:59]
Phil
Yeah, for him, it will mean a lot. You know, it's interesting, in the build up to the game, both Arteta and Pep were asked about the relationship between them as managers, as friends. How has that changed? How has it evolved? They batted it away as you would expect them to do, but there's no way that it can't be a huge moment for Mikel Arteta to beat his mentor so resoundingly. And I do always feel like in the weeks before these games, you see a different side of Arteta, a different tension in the air around those press conferences. You know, this is the game. I think probably that above all others, he marks out on that fixture list. So it will have meant a great deal to him, it meant a great deal to the Arsenal fans because as Phil mentioned, you know, Arsenal have suffered greatly at Man City's hands in recent years. They've beaten them to two League titles, which I think in any other season, against any other club, Arsenal might well have been champions. But against this extraordinary City side and what they've accomplished in that period, they were pipped to the post. That's been very traumatic for the Arsenal supporters. So I think a bit there was a lot of catharsis in that stadium last night. This is a different city and I think we need to say that and qualify that this is a City side with clear weaknesses, without Rodri that have struggled. But I think on a purely emotional level, for Arteta and the Arsenal fans, this clearly meant a great deal.
- [07:12]
James McNicholas
Where do you think the relationship's at, James? What's your reading of, you know, the kind of accord between Arteta and Guardiola? Friends. Not friends. What do you think?
- [07:22]
Phil
I think a great deal of mutual respect. I think it's difficult to be friends in the true sense when you are professionally in quite so much competition. And to be fair, I think they've effectively admitted that on a human level. And of course, I'm not in that friendship. I don't know. But it must place a strain. I mean, they've been in such direct competition and there is that dynamic as well of a guy who's been at the very top of the game and someone younger aspiring to sort of push on and, you know, emulate what he's done. There's gotta be a bit of tension there. I found it really interesting afterwards, like, Mikola Arteta was asked about the meeting between these two teams in September. You know, did you use any of the moments from that game as motivation for your side? I'm thinking of perhaps Erling Haaland telling Tim after the game, stay humble. And Arteta was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, I wouldn't do that.
- [08:09]
James McNicholas
And I thought, rubbish, I don't believe.
- [08:11]
Phil
You for a minute. We've all seen the Amazon documentary. We know what he's like. We know he's got Ivan Toady's tweets on a whiteboard, you know, so I'm sure it's part of it. And all these dynamics, all these interpersonal exchanges and. Fantastic. Right. I think it always makes me laugh. It's become a cliche, really, when you hear a pundit say, oh, we don't want to see that sort of thing, of course we do. Like, it's brilliant. And I'm glad that even though City are not in the title race, it seems this season, I think, that City Arsenal rivalry on the pitch, off the pitch, in the boardroom, remains a really heated and captivated one.
- [08:49]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, that rivalry is interesting. And you bring me nicely to my next point. James and Phil, I want you to jump in on this as well, this whole scenario, surroundings. Erling Haaland, stay humble comment from the previous match. They played, obviously, Miles Louis Skelly scores a brilliant goal, mimics Haaland Celebration and the club DJ plays Kendrick Lamar's Be Humble right at the end of the game. I mean, I'm up for a bit of rivalry, I'm up for a bit of needle. That's part of the game. And actually, I like to see Arsenal players do that. But did you say Arsenal got a little carried away with this one? They've been waiting to press that button, James. You could tell.
- [09:23]
Phil
Well, listen, I think that's on the dj. I don't think. I don't think Stan Kroenke's up there being like, can we get Kendrick lined.
- [09:31]
James McNicholas
Up for full time next time?
- [09:32]
Phil
No, we can't put all that on the club. I think the DJ might have got a bit rogue there, but the Arsenal fans around me certainly enjoyed it. The ones who were young enough to know the track, anyway. It's great. And the Miles LewisKelly Haaland thing, I mean, there's plenty of history there. Miles Lewiskelly made his Premier League debut in the reverse fixture at the Etihad. You may remember, it was a debut which he was booked before he even got on the pitch for encouraging, shall we say, David Ryer to go down injured while Arsenal were clinging on to a lead in that game. He comes on the pitch, puts himself about a bit. And there was a moment, I think, captured by the cameras, where Erling Haaland asked him who he is in less than polite terms, but safe to say he knows now.
- [10:13]
James McNicholas
I was looking at Haaland's dad, Alfie, tweeting afterwards about the fact that, you know, City of the trophies, Arsenal don't, which is true, but that in itself tells you that what happened yesterday touched the nerve. I think Haaland and Team Haaland could easily rise above it. I mean, he's only 24 and he's won everything of note at club level. His record in the Premier League goalscorn records a complete joke. But Arsenal seem to have managed to get under his skin slightly, and that's probably true of Pep and City in general. I mean, City at the moment, they look like they're. They're not a Pep Guardiola team. They look like they're trying to imitate a Pep Guardiola team and doing it really badly. The playing out from the back is atrocious at the moment, and the way in which they're getting cut open in transition and being counterattacked is really surprising. It's like the loss of Rodri has just ruined everything in a pretty quick period of time. I was saying in the newsletter that they're kind of pressing with the enthusiasm of teenagers getting out of bed, which is not like, not what Guardiola team does. The only thing with this is that everybody will be keeping receipts. And you can tell that, you know, Gabrielle, Luis Skeld kept them after the game in September. I suspect Arteta probably did to Hansen. City will keep them after yesterday because if this is another trophyless season for Arsenal, it all starts to look a little bit tempo, doesn't it? You know, fair enough. It's heat the moment and it was a massive win. And, you know, having been to to games like that in the past, I know what the experience is like and, you know, in the moment when you're there and it'll be, as I said earlier, have been immensely satisfying. But the challenge for Arsenal and the thing that they haven't done to this point is doing it when it matters.
- [11:52]
Phil
Yeah.
- [11:52]
Ayo Akinwaleere
And look, in fairness, Haaland did get his goal. Yes.
- [11:55]
Phil
Yeah. And I thought that was a brilliant.
- [11:56]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Goal, let's not forget that. But from an Arsenal perspective, James, to see that kind of passion and needle and building up rivalries, it's only great for the Premier League, isn't it? I mean, journalists will dine out on that for as long as it goes the next match, we'll be looking at it again.
- [12:11]
Phil
Yeah. I mean, it's great entertainment. Shades of Martin Keown, I suppose. You know, in Gabriel's reaction to the opening goal, a slightly surreal exchange later in the match where Gabriel appeared to be ordering Haaland to get him his boot.
- [12:24]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I saw that.
- [12:25]
Phil
I mean, look, it's all a bit sort of sideshow stuff and I'm sure people will roll their eyes at it. I do think if you're a fan of Arsenal or a fan of Man City, you are going to find that incredibly engaging. And just as Arsenal might have pinned Haaland's comments up on their dressing room wall. Well, City have got plenty of ammunition going into the next game and I think that's what we want to see. These kind of narratives that run across seasons. And I'm excited, I'm excited for the next one. Why would you not be? I think Arsenal and City is a really unique rivalry because you've got the managers right. You clearly between the players, there's beef. They've got. The managers have got this unusual dynamic where you've got kind of the master and the apprentice. And then in the boardroom or in sort of the club philosophies, there is again, massive tension. You've got City, who you know are the sort of state owned 115 charges. Arsenal, one of the biggest opponents of City in those big sort of discussions about the Premier League and financial regulation. So it really, at every single level it works. Feels right, though. Like you look at the trophy count and there's only one winner here. So Arsenal will be acutely aware of that. And if anything, I think some of what we saw from them on the pitch yesterday, it comes out of the pain that they've suffered at City's hands, because they probably feel like if it weren't for City, we'd have a decent medal collection by this point in time.
- [13:46]
Ayo Akinwaleere
All right, next we'll look deeper at Arsenal's teenage stars.
- [13:51]
Phil
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accumulere.
- [13:56]
Jack
This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.
- [14:26]
Phil
Hey, everybody, it's Diana Rossini from the Scoop City podcast. It's super bowl week and the eyes of the world are on New Orleans to see if the Chiefs can make history or if the Eagles are ready to rain on their parade. Myself, Robert Mays, Derek Claassen, and a whole host of NFL reporters and special guests will be live streaming every day from Radio Row covering all the buildup to Sunday's showdown. Join us on the Athletic HQ YouTube account every day at 5pm Eastern time. It's not to be missed.
- [14:59]
James McNicholas
We believe in them, that when I put them next to the boys, they feel that with them they are as good or better, you know, and that's really, really important.
- [15:07]
Ayo Akinwaleere
And that they play with with a.
- [15:09]
James McNicholas
Lot of purpose and they play really.
- [15:11]
Phil
To contribute and to make things happen.
- [15:13]
James McNicholas
That's what I like about both of them.
- [15:15]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta, their speaking post match on what Mars Luis Skelly and Ethan Ranieri bring to his side. Now joining us to talk about Arsenal's teenage stars, we have the Athletics, Art De Roche joining us as well. Art, good to have you. Now, we've spoken about Luis Scalia Nuaneri's impact on the win Against Manchester City, two great goals, well taken. But what impact do you, considering where this team are and where they have to go for the rest of this season, this sort of youthful energy can have on their progression, I think it.
- [15:44]
Art De Roche
Can have a massive impact. When you look at what Saka and Smith row in, the kind of Europa League, what they brought to Arsenal, it really can be transformative. But even if you go back a bit further, I saw some Arsenal fans talking about Ramsey and Wilshire a bit earlier on, and I think that kind of spark can be really different to what's already in the team with, I think, Wanieri, I was lucky enough to be. Be kind of right behind him when he scored and he was calling for that ball for about 15 seconds. You knew what he wanted to do, he knew what he wanted to do and he was able to do it. And I think what's really important is there's not too much thought behind what they're doing. You're seeing that they feel that they can affect the game and they just go and do it. Rather than being too coached. They just play football. And that's, I think, the biggest, biggest compliment you can pay to them.
- [16:37]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I was listening to the latest episode of Handbrake off and you were talking about Mazew Ischelli coming into the Manchester City match, and you were wondering whether or not Calafiori would take that. Let's not forget the goal he scored against Manchester City. But Arteta went with Luis Kelly instead of Calafiori and that trust definitely paid off.
- [16:54]
Art De Roche
Definitely. I think when I was kind of having that debate with myself, it was more looking at who do I trust to be more reliable defensively. And that was probably Louis Skelly. And we saw way before he scored, the way he used his body in defense, how switched on he was. We've seen it throughout the last couple of weeks, months even. And then to do it on that stage and perform the way he did last night, I think you just see someone who's confident in himself and has the confidence of his teammates as well, whether he's on the ball or off it.
- [17:29]
Phil
Yeah.
- [17:29]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Phil has this sort of injuries that Arsenals have had been a bit of a blessing in disguise, do you reckon, for these young kids to come through. But also, I mean, they come through doesn't necessarily mean they're going to shine.
- [17:39]
James McNicholas
No. I think you would have to call it in a. Call it a blessing in disguise, because it didn't feel at the time when the injury started to kick in like that was going to do Arsenal any good. And I don't think there was any question that people at Arsenal thought a lot of these two, two players in particular, it was more the concern would have been how able they were to replace somebody like Bukayo Saka, who is basically their top player and someone who in practice you wouldn't like to be standing in for. I still think in order for Arsenal to have a really big finish to the season, they're going to need a big from a fully fit Saka. But I've been really impressed with these two and I think the. The bonus for Arteta, and what you'll realize now is that as the season goes on and he needs to manage both the Champions League and the Premier League, he'll feel fairly confident that rotating and using kind of rotation of the squad involving the one area and Louis Skelly isn't a horrible risk. James and Art will be able to say better than me where these two are going longer term, whether or not these are going to be, you know, big Arsenal players over a decade or that, that kind of timeframe, or whether more like, say, somebody like in Ketia, they'll end up with other Premier League teams perhaps a little further down the chain, but I think the way in which they've coped with recent games, particularly Louis Skelly yesterday, tells you that they're assets that Arteta can use now and he'll be grateful for that because, you know, you lose somebody like Saka, you need somebody big to step in.
- [19:00]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, for sure. James, I'm going to throw some stats at you. Ethan Ranieri, 17 years older, 318 days. And Mars Luis Skelly, 18 years old, 129 days, became the youngest players to score against the reigning champion since Wayne Rooney netted for Everton against Arsenal in March 2003, when Rooney, of course, was 17 years old and 150 days. Now, the other one, which I really like, is Ranieri and Miles. Luis Kelly scoring against Manchester City was only the fourth time two players aged 18 or younger have scored for the same team in the Premier League. The first since Everton against Fulham in April 2007. And that was James Vaughan and also Victor Anicabi. Old school names. Classic.
- [19:40]
Phil
Yeah, I love it.
- [19:41]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Classic Premier League names, Barclays vintage. Yeah, but exactly that. But I mean, you saw them in pre season. What were you seeing while you saw them in pre season in America? Did you envisage this was where it would go? Because of course, Mikel Arteta's also been criticized for not using his youth I.
- [19:57]
Phil
Have to say, I didn't expect it to happen so quickly. They were really impressive on the tour, both of them, and I think the club have to be given some credit not only for holding on to these players. There was a lot of competition for their first professional deal. And, you know, Ethan Ranieri, Chelsea came in for him really hard and ultimately committed to Arsenal. They kept Lewis Skelly as well. That was vital. But they integrated them really effectively this summer and they were earmarked for positions in the first team squad. You know, Arsenal made decisions like selling Emil Smith, row loaning out Fabio Vieira, decisions which seemingly left them light, and those were taken partly to afford opportunities to someone like Ethan Renieri. Louis Skelly, I always thought would be more difficult almost for him to make that breakthrough. Because Arsenal have a ton of left backs, right? Not only did they spend £42 million on Riccardo Califuri, they got Kirantini, Alexander Zinchenko, Jakob Kivior, Jurrien, timber complex there. Takira Tomiyasu can play there in spite of all that. And yes, there have been injuries. For Miles Lewiskelly to have worked his way into position where he's now effectively Arsenal's starting left back is quite extraordinary. So huge credit to them, credit to the manager as well, because I think Mikel Arteta recognized in himself that that was sort of an evolution that he needed to take as a manager. He needed to reach a place of maturity where he felt able to take these risks on these young players, to trust them. And he was quite open about that with us during the summer, saying that, you know, that's a stage I to reach as a manager. I need to be brave enough, was something he said. And he's got to that place now and he's been richly rewarded because they've been absolutely fantastic. And at the moment, they're both in a place in their careers where, frankly, they haven't really encountered an obstacle yet. They've taken to the Premier League like ducks to water and they are absolutely flying. It's incredible to see the amount of confidence and belief that they're playing with. And their progress may not always be linear in that way. There will be challenges, there will be moments they have to overcome, there'll be mistakes, and they will present their own difficulties and, you know, hope if they're good enough, they'll overcome those. But what's incredible, what's a joy to watch, is that they're in that honeymoon period now where they just seem to feel invincible. And it's great to watch.
- [22:01]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I know you wrote a piece on Liv Skelly and also Nwanieri and I love reading the comment section and that was relatively positive, actually, because it was such a lovely piece. But there's a guy called Rob B said trophies and playing in the Champions League are all well and good, but they become routine, an expectation rather than a delightful surprise because of today's entitled culture. To me, there is just something so much more special and honest about seeing the academy kids rise up through the ranks and not only represent the club, but to perform at the highest possible level. Football clubs are originally about community and seeing Nuaneri and Luis Kelly tearing it up after coming through as school kids just reminds me of that, that long may it last. Now, there is something really beautiful about this for any team in the Premier League that, you know, admits the billions, admits this, corporate structures, there is still a beauty to seeing that kid, you know, and it's hard to make it out of an academy, by the way, to make it into first team because there's also international talent. They're recruiting in those spots, finally make it and actually stand up and play well for their team.
- [23:01]
Phil
Yeah.
- [23:02]
Art De Roche
I think one other thing that's massive is a lot of the fan base can identify with these players not just as footballers and how they play, but as people as well. And I think that's one thing that made me so fond of someone like Emil Smith Rowe, who we mentioned earlier, I could see myself in him. And I think when generations come through, obviously we spoke about Wilshire and Ramsey earlier too. I think you have these players that when they come in so young, you naturally just gravitate towards them. And I think one thing that helped yesterday was the whole stadium wanted Miles and Ethan to score. And when they did, I think that was probably the wildest I'd seen the Emirates for a while. And on James's point on kind of having to overcome obstacles, I think it's weird that we've probably already forgotten that Ethan has had to overcome an obstacle with the injury. He had last month scored against Brighton, then came off at halftime with a muscular issue, came back and was just as physical, just as kind of imposing as he was before the injury. And I think that's just as impressive as what he's been doing since preseason or even when he made his debut two and a half years ago against Brentford. So big props to both of them and big credit to the club as well.
- [24:20]
Phil
I think, as well, you know, we speak about these previous generations, be that Wilshire and Ramsey or Even more recently, Smith, Rowe, Saka, you're Elian Catches, Rhys Nelson. They broke through at a time where Arsenal were maybe not the force that they are at this point in time, you know, where they were not necessarily challenging for League titles or, you know, third in the Champions League table as they are at this point in time. Time for these players to be getting a chance in the first team and seizing that chance in the first team in the strongest Arsenal team for probably 20 years, I think is a testament to their talent and their mentality.
- [24:54]
James McNicholas
That that comment that you read out as well, IO is. Is bang on the money actually. It's almost like the one connection now to the community where clubs play academy production, particularly of. Of players who grew up in. In the local area. Obviously you have a club stadium, but we were writing recently about the Italian super cup and the Spanish super cup, both of which were played in Saudi Arabia for money, let's be honest. So even that, you know, as time goes on, you suspect will be less and less of a tie. But academy kids from where you come from are as close a tie to local areas you can possibly get.
- [25:30]
Art De Roche
I think Arsenal are really conscious of that as well. When you look at the stadium artwork around the Emirates, there's one of the panels is just about the academy. They're very conscious of that. So having these two come through at the same time is massive for them.
- [25:44]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, Phil, back to James's point really, as to where Arsenal are right now. You know, Jamie Carragher said on Sky Sports after the game that Arsenal need to win the title this season. Otherwise it feels like a step back under Mikel Arteta. I thought that was quite interesting assessment. I guess that says is something to where Arsenal are aiming to get to and also how far Mikel Arteta's come in in his tenure as Arsenal manager. But what do you think of that comment?
- [26:10]
James McNicholas
A step back. Liverpool at the moment are on for 92, 93 points and. And teams have gone beyond that total in the past, but it's not a regular thing, you know that that would be a really high finishing spot. So I think you have to be reasonable in acknowledging that the competition out there is extremely fierce this season. I guess it's more the bigger picture stuff with Arteta. He's coming up for six years in now in this job, which again you have to remember is his first. But that is a long stretch in the Premier League. There's no pretending that he hasn't spent heavily on the squad. He hasn't got a lot of what he's asked for. I think if you put a really good, top class number nine into this squad, it's hard to know what more he could possibly ask for. I think he would have pretty much a. A full hand with which to play with and he hasn't delivered a great deal when it, when it comes to trophies, that is a fact. I think he's a slightly lazy stick to beat him with because Arsenal, to my eyes anyway, a completely different animal to what they were latterly under Arsene Wenger and also under Unai Emery. But I guess to an extent, it's not entirely flattering when somebody like Alistair comes into the Premier League and instantly tears it up in the way that he is at Liverpool. And from Arsenal's perspective, Arteta can't simply keep saying too good about other clubs. Eventually you have to break somebody's back rather than them breaking yours over and over again. And that, to this point, is the thing that he hasn't been able to do. Whether finishing second this season counts as a backward step, I don't necessarily think it does, but it most certainly doesn't count as a step forward, which is what Arsenal need to take.
- [27:46]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, let's think about the bigger picture and I think that's really interesting, James. I was with Nigel Winterburn on Friday and we were talking about. It feels slightly disgruntled that Arsenal haven't won a title at the Emirates, the Premier League title, that is. And this is a guy who's won three League titles with Arsenal, but he said that first one's really hard. Like once you hit that first one, then you start moving forward. But I'm just thinking more now about this season. One of the things he was excited about was potentially the Champions League and seeing how far that team can go in the competition. And I guess there's still the Carabao cup, but if you look at some of the people Arsenal could possibly face in the next round of the Champions League, AC Milan, psv, Juventus, Feyenoord, that has to be a competition, their earmarking and as a relative success for this season, if they can keep going on in that competition.
- [28:30]
Phil
Definitely. I mean, look, the Premier League title is, I think, the big one for Arsenal. I think it's the one that, you know, that feels like everything's been building towards that. But there are other measures of success and progress and the Champions League could be one, you know, if they can get into a semi final or final there, that will feel like a big step forward. And I don't see why they shouldn't, frankly. I think, you know, they've performed really well in the initial league stage. They've got, you know, a buy through to the, the round of 16 at this point in time. They look like if they get through that, they'll probably have quite a tough draw in the quarterfinals, the way that the tables panned out. But yeah, I, I think they'll still have one on that. I think it was. Well, listen, a week or a few weeks ago I'd written off Arsenal's chances in the Carabao.
- [29:11]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Don't say Saint. You really think they're going to turn that around at Saint Ch.
- [29:13]
Phil
All I'm saying is Bournemouth went there and beat them. They got beat there again at the weekend. They just beat 65 1. That's a big game for Newcastle and honestly, hand on heart, I think if Arsenal score first at St James's it will be a very nervy St James's Park. Listen, Newcastle still strong favorites, but that's actually why that week was so costly for Arsenal. You know, they had a week where they just were so poor in front of goal, couldn't finish anything and they lost two nil in the Carabao cup and went out the FA Cup. And that was a big blow actually because trophies, yes, the Premier League's the big one. Yes, the Champions League the big one. But I think you want to see Arsenal, you want to see a squad of this caliber racking up a few medals, you know, and in elite, in a season where it looks very difficult to win the league, those secondary competitions I think are important. So that's a big game at St. James's on Wednesday. I know it's a very tall task, but I think Arsenal got to give it everything they can. And if they can get one in front there, you never know.
- [30:07]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Do you believe in that optimism? You know, this, this incredible win against Manchester City is enough to galvanize this team to turn over a two goal deficit and potentially do really well in the Champions League.
- [30:18]
Art De Roche
Believe is a strong word, but hope, I think hope be closer to where I'm at. I think when you look at how the game went yesterday, that early goal was really important and it's something Arsenal haven't done in a, in a while, I feel in their first title charge. So the 2223 season, there were a lot of early starts to games in terms of scoring first, scoring early, and if they're able to do that at Newcastle, I think they could maybe get momentum and carry on from where they left off. Against Manchester City. In terms of the whole Champions League debate, I think one thing that kind of sticks in my mind is the Jose Mourinho football heritage discussion, because Arsenal, just speaking frankly, don't have heritage in the Champions League, got to the quarterfinals last season for the first time in 14 years, and you want to be able to, I guess, not just repeat that, but surpass that year on year. So that's something that I'm looking at in terms of where the development is for the second half of this season. Can you actually push a little bit further? Hopefully, as James said, semi final or a final?
- [31:22]
Ayo Akinwaleere
All right, Art, thank you so much for your time, brother. Next we'll look at.