Has Infantino's expanded World Cup worked?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast — “Has Infantino's expanded World Cup worked?”

Episode Date: July 17, 2026
Host(s): Adam Leventhal, Adam Crafton
Guest: Paul Tenorio

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores whether FIFA president Gianni Infantino’s expanded 48-team World Cup format has been a success. As anticipation builds for the Argentina vs Spain final at MetLife Stadium, the panel reflects on the tournament's new scale, fan engagement across North America, the impact of logistical challenges and innovations, controversies around commercialization (such as hydration breaks and halftime shows), and the ever-contentious role of Infantino and FIFA governance.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Atmosphere in New York & Environmental Challenges

[03:00] - [04:01]

• The ongoing Canadian wildfires have severely affected air quality in New York/New Jersey, impacting teams' preparations and potentially the final itself.
• Spain had to train in poor air; rain forecasted before the final might resolve some of these issues.
• Hosts note “so many things … would never occur as a, as a kind of possibility. And here we are.” (Adam Leventhal, [03:38])

---

Has the Expanded World Cup “Felt Like a Festival of Football?”

[04:21] - [07:09]

• Paul Tenorio argues the tournament has largely succeeded: "We've seen mostly a celebration of football, a celebration of culture." ([04:21])
• The U.S. hosted vibrant watch parties, expat communities engaged across host cities, and “a lot of fun really for the fans across the country.”
• Adam Crafton notes that the group stage was more competitive than expected: “The expanded format. You know, there was no team really that kind of disgraced themselves … I don't think diminished the tournament whatsoever.” ([06:02])
• Discovery was a key element: “We got the discovery of Cape Verde … Curacao obviously drawing their game as well.” (Adam Leventhal, [07:54])

---

Audience Engagement & the Role of “Big Stars”

[08:40] - [11:30]

• “The US the audience here loves big events, they love big stars and they love when it ... lives up to the billing.” (Paul Tenorio, [08:46])
• Big names (Messi, Mbappé, Haaland) made instant impacts, driving TV records: "Record numbers for television viewers, for Fox and for Telemundo." ([09:46])
• Host nations' success (U.S., Mexico, Canada) fueled local excitement.
• The event turned many sports fans into football fans—casual conversations about soccer were frequent and new.

“It's not normal … to hear conversation about what's happening in football around the U.S. … now it was the thing.”
— Paul Tenorio, [11:16]

---

Did the Expansion “Work”? Host/Expert Consensus

[12:06] - [12:14] - Adam Crafton: “So broadly speaking, it's worked, it's been a success.”

• The group agreed: Concerns about diminished quality didn’t manifest—extra teams enriched competition, provided upsets, and enhanced the “festival” feel.

---

Controversies: Hydration Breaks and Commercialization

[12:13] - [16:54]

• Hydration breaks have been polarizing—sometimes necessary (in extreme heat), but a clear opportunity for sponsored commercial blocks, changing football’s rhythm.
• Adam Levinthal: “If you're Fox Sports, it made a huge amount of money … Gianni Infantino has been clever, pretty manipulative, actually, with his words on this.” ([14:34])
• Commercial breaks during matches felt unnatural, especially for European viewers. At stadiums, less disruptive; on TV, “quite annoying.” (Adam Levinthal, [17:08])
• Broad consensus: Necessary for player safety under some conditions, but the universal, mandated application is driven by commercial strategy rather than football logic.

---

The Future: Further Expansion, FIFA Politics & 2030 World Cup

[22:04] - [28:35]

• Discussion shifts to 2030 and talk of a 64-team World Cup, pushed by COMNEBOL.
• Adam Levinthal: “I think it would affect quality, probably. It would also ruin … qualifying is already terrible in several areas.”
• Paul Tenorio notes the erosion of qualifying stakes, the financial threat to confederations losing value in TV rights:

  “...They've essentially ceded the idea of a playoff to get to a World Cup, which is what qualifying is. They've ceded that money over to FIFA. And that, I think, will be a difficult pill ... to swallow.” ([27:49])

• Expansion is both a political and commercial tool for Infantino.

---

Infantino as Figurehead: Public Perception & Accountability

[29:18] - [33:57]

• Infantino’s image: “sort of painted a little bit as a pantomime villain, a Bond villain at times … people booing him in stadia.” (Adam Crafton, [29:18])
• Ticketing controversies (ongoing investigations in several U.S. states over resale/modification of categories).
• Infantino’s over-promising (“everyone will be welcome in the US”) vs. political/cultural realities (visa issues, ICE enforcement, travel bans).
• Adam Levinthal:

  “We can't save the world. But then that conflicts with his strap line of unite the world, heal the world. So he wants to be both things at once.” ([33:57])

• Much of this “bounces off him … that's ... Is anything going to change? Well, no.” ([33:24]–[33:29])

---

Politics, Pageantry, and the Trump Factor

[34:50] - [38:57]

• President Trump’s attendance at the final: polarizing, potentially overshadowing the sporting occasion.
• “He's not a unifying figure … it doesn't make it … a uniting thing. And then he got involved and it was a divisive thing almost immediately, both globally and domestically.” (Paul Tenorio, [35:09]–[35:23])
• FIFA’s close business connections with Trump (offices in Trump Tower, events at Trump-managed venues).
• Political symbolism reminiscent of previous finals (see: Qatari emir with Messi, [37:59]–[38:57]).

---

Infrastructure Concerns: MetLife Pitch and the Halftime Show

[38:57] - [43:56]

• Ongoing problems with the temporary grass pitch at MetLife—too hard, feels like artificial turf to players:

  “The players haven't enjoyed playing on it ... Tuchel said it kind of felt like AstroTurf.” (Adam Levinthal, [39:20])

• Concerns the halftime show (feat. Madonna, Shakira, BTS, Justin Bieber) will negatively affect playing conditions due to field setup and an extended break:

  “Good luck telling Madonna to keep it short. Not sure even Gianni can do that.” (Adam Levinthal, [41:55])

• Target halftime: 20 minutes; could creep longer.
• Paul Tenorio: “You have to imagine they have extra bikes in the back. Get the players on them, keep those legs moving.” ([42:10])
• FIFA claims the show aims to “raise $100 million for Global Citizen” charity, but panel notes:

  “FIFA are making 9 to 11 billion from the tournament. They could just give 100 million to charity.” (Levinthal, [43:02])

---

Is the Halftime Show Necessary? U.S. vs. Europe Perspectives

[43:56] - [46:33]

• Paul Tenorio: “It's always about the show. ... it draws a different audience in. … at the super bowl, at least you know that there's an audience that tunes into the game and then there's an audience that tunes in just for the halftime show.” ([44:33])
• European viewers see it as unnecessary intrusion into the sport; Americans view as expected spectacle.
• British broadcasters were at one point rumored not to air it, but that was false—novelty and “hate-watching” expected to boost engagement.

---

The World Cup’s Legacy in the U.S.

[47:02] - [48:28]

• Looking forward: Next episode will cover MLS’s future post-World Cup boom, featuring Don Garber.
• Garber credits MLS’s decades of work for U.S. soccer’s transformative moment:

  “I wholeheartedly believe that without Major League Soccer, … the World cup would be what it is today.” (Don Garber, [47:29])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The U.S. get their president. Canada gets its air.”
  — Adam Levinthal, referencing fires and Trump’s imminent appearance ([03:58])

• “It was literally like a very talented 12 year old was playing with them on their PlayStation.”
  — Adam Levinthal, describing the rate of superstar goals ([07:15])

• “Hydration breaks been a success? Yes. If you're Fox Sports, it made a huge amount of money.”
  — Adam Levinthal ([14:34])

• “He's sort of painted a little bit as a pantomime villain, a Bond villain at times.”
  — Adam Crafton on Infantino ([29:18])

• "It's really hard to kind of mess up a World Cup, right? Like, that is how good the product is."
  — Adam Levinthal ([29:51])

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:24: Episode begins at MetLife Stadium, previewing the Argentina vs. Spain final
• 04:21: Discussion on whether the expanded World Cup feels like a "festival"
• 06:02: Assessing quality and excitement in the expanded group stage
• 12:13: Panel agrees expanded format has broadly worked; raises first major criticism (hydration breaks)
• 14:34: Hydration break controversy, commercial motives
• 22:04: Looking ahead to possible 64-team World Cup in 2030
• 29:18: Dissecting Infantino’s reputation and FIFA’s governance during the tournament
• 34:50: The Trump factor: political overtones of the final
• 38:57: Stadium infrastructure/pitch issues; halftime show logistics and impact
• 43:56: Necessity/cultural precedent of the halftime show
• 47:29: Don Garber on MLS’s role in building US soccer’s foundation

---

Language, Tone & Style

• The discussion is witty, irreverent, and often skeptical of FIFA’s motivations and PR.
• The hosts balance analysis of on-pitch events with “cutting through the noise” of football politics, commercialization, and legacy issues.

---

Summary Takeaways

• Infantino’s expansion “worked,” delivering competitive drama, star-driven moments, and mass fan engagement.
• Commercial influences (hydration breaks, halftime shows) are significant—and sometimes grating—innovations, drawing both criticism and acknowledgment of their effectiveness in growing the game’s audience.
• Political realities—from visa restrictions to Trump’s presence—have complicated FIFA’s “unite the world” messaging.
• Legacy in North America: The tournament appears poised to leave a deeply ingrained soccer culture, especially in the US, with knock-on effects for Major League Soccer.
• FIFA’s future ambitions (further expansion, increased commercialization) remain controversial, with the episode ending on the note that the World Cup's appeal has so far survived—and maybe thrived—amid all the change.

---

Next episode teaser:
Post-World Cup legacy for MLS and North American football, with exclusive insights from Don Garber.

---

Transcript

[Adam Levinthal]

At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your Rich Edward Jones Member, SIPC.

[Paul Tenorio]

The Athletic FC

[Adam Crafton]

welcome to the MetLife Stadium, or New York, New Jersey, as it's been more commonly known during this World cup in FIFA land. The the site of the World cup final on Sunday between Argentina and Spain. It's a stadium that's already being dressed for the final with its special branding. And the preparation work is in full swing here at the stadium ahead of what will be a World cup final like no other, including a halftime show and the visit of the US President Donald Trump. Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Levinthal. So we are now just counting down the hours until the World cup final between Argentina and Spain. But this FIFA event is so much more this time around and it's going to be so much longer, potentially with big names also likely to take center stage. Let me introduce our guests in the studio. Adam Crafton is back once again. As I was doing my intro there, you said that I sounded like Gianni Infantino promoting the.

[Adam Levinthal]

You said this will be an event like no other. We have had lots of World cup finals before.

[Adam Crafton]

We have. But this is going to be.

[Adam Levinthal]

But this is the biggest one ever. This is the biggest one and it is exciting.

[Adam Crafton]

It is. Adam is here and it's great to welcome senior writer at the Athletic, Paul Tenorio. How are you?

[Paul Tenorio]

I'm doing well. I do think it is a World cup final like no other. There will be a longer halftime than ever before. So, in fact, you're just stating facts.

[Adam Crafton]

Exactly. It's all facts. I like it. Thank you. Just before we get stuck into what's going on here in New York and what we're going to be doing on today's show, I just wanted to point you in the direction with reference to yesterday's show, the fallout for England. There's a big, juicy athletic read out now, which is the inside read of England's campaign. You'll hear a lot about pounding the rock. You'll hear a lot about brotherhood. You'll even hear about the potential. And this is sort of caveated with. Was it a joke? Was it not of them maybe getting tattoos to celebrate winning the World cup, which was discussed in camp. So you can read that right now on the Athletic. And remember, all the athletic World cup coverage on the app is free for you to read. So you have no Excuse, ladies and gents. Right. One thing I wanted to get out of the way right at the top, guys, is, is to take people into what it's like here in New York at the moment, air quality. Because the Canadian wildfires and all that that entails is really having an impact right now, isn't it?

[Paul Tenorio]

Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, in fact, they say if you are outside for more than a few minutes, in theory, you should be wearing a mask, which shows just how poor the air quality is. And Spain had to train in this yesterday because they were here in New York, New Jersey. So I think it certainly will have an impact. The rain is supposed to come through on Saturday, so that should ease the air quality for the actual match once that rain blows through. But with the hot temperatures mixed with the smoke coming from the Canadian wildfires, it creates really poor air quality. So something I haven't dealt with in a few years. But it's an American thing. It's an American World Cup.

[Adam Levinthal]

I know, it's just.

[Adam Crafton]

Why are you smiling cunningly?

[Paul Tenorio]

Come on.

[Adam Levinthal]

It's just like anything you think. There's so many things that have happened over the course of this past year in the lead up and during this World cup where you're like, that could just things that would never occur as a, as a kind of possibility. And here we are, it's the co

[Paul Tenorio]

hosts getting involved Canada to make sure they're present. The Canadian wildfire smoke will be their medlife.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Levinthal]

The US get their president. Canada gets its heir.

[Adam Crafton]

Yes, quite. Let's move on from that because it will sort of potentially be a subplot until it clears. Let's reflect on the, the tournament as a whole as we approach the final across three countries. Has it felt like a, a festival of football? Let's put, put this to Paul first of all.

[Paul Tenorio]

I think so. I think, you know, for all the concern about what the World cup would be and the valid concerns that were there, including about the prices of tickets and all of that, I think we've seen mostly a celebration of football, a celebration of culture. We've seen the different immigrant communities in the United States come out for the different countries who have played, the people who have traveled here, experiencing the American culture for the first time, some of them, and documenting that and the watch parties all around the country that we, that I at least anticipated would happen. So I think it has been mostly a celebration and a lot of fun really for the fans across the country and by the way, not just in the countries that are not Just in the cities that are hosting the games, but, but elsewhere as well, of people who have bought fully into this tournament and especially on those days where there were four games happening that were. They were out, they were watching together and they were embracing the World cup for the best of what it is.

[Adam Crafton]

Has it predominantly been expat communities though, rather than a huge swathe of people traveling to the States?

[Paul Tenorio]

I think mostly. I think mostly. And it varies by country. But for example, like, you know, I talking to some friends who were at the Argentina England game.

[Adam Crafton]

We don't talk about that here.

[Paul Tenorio]

They said those. It felt like at least that it was a lot of fans who had traveled in from Argentina. So maybe in art for the Argentina games you see more people who have flown in for it. But you know, speaking to people being at games for Iran and LA or Haiti. Yes. I think those are mostly expats and immigrants, children, second generation, third generation who are going out to, you know, feel like they're touching home a little bit and being surrounded by people who share that same culture and want to celebrate it with them.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah, well, I guess that's also because they weren't allowed to fly in in the cases of Iran and Haiti and. Yeah, et cetera. Yeah, I mean it's been. The football has been amazing and I think there's always a point like three or four days into a tournament. Well, that's all anyone wants to talk about. And that's completely like normal because there was a period maybe during the group stages or first knockout round where it just seemed like every game was crazier than the last one. And it just kind of rolled on from one to the other to the other to the other. I think the group stage was better than people maybe thought or feared it would be. With the group stage format. I think FIFA can say they probably got that right. The expanded format. You know, there was no team really that kind of disgraced themselves. Maybe Uruguay, but in general kind of letting in, you know, more teams. I don't think diminished the tournament whatsoever. I think you had two things going on. One was that you had this kind of attraction to characters and big stars and they turned up like PlayStation version of themselves, right?

[Paul Tenorio]

Thousand percent. That's what I felt like. That was the biggest selling point.

[Don Garber]

Right.

[Paul Tenorio]

The stars were the, the stars.

[Adam Levinthal]

So you'd have a game where Messi scores and then Mbappe scores and then Vinicius scores and it was literally like a very talented 12 year old was playing with them on their PlayStation because Messi would score that Left footed, kind of finesse goal. And then Mbappe would whack one in and then Kane would just smash it in from 20 yards. And this just kept happening. And you had that, but then you also had the really the. I think the thing that most of us as football fans love about World Cups, which is discovery. And we got the discovery of Cape Verde and we got the discovery of. Who are the other new teams?

[Paul Tenorio]

Oh, briefly, the United States.

[Adam Levinthal]

The United States. Right. But the Canada.

[Adam Crafton]

Curacao.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah, Curacao obviously drawing their game as well.

[Paul Tenorio]

Ivory Coast.

[Adam Levinthal]

I thought Ivory coast with diamond as well was fantastic. He's not really a discovery, but kind of explodes onto the scene a bit. And then the other thing that gives a tournament so much electricity is when a host nation starts to win. Right. And you saw that Mexico winning, US were winning and Canada were winning and to borrow a phrase, they couldn't get enough of winning.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Right.

[Adam Levinthal]

Like they kind of rolled on through the group stages really. And I think that really engaged people.

[Adam Crafton]

Did it engage non soccer fans from where you saw it? Did it really draw people in? Most definitely. And was it mainly about the big characters that they, they were dialed in too?

[Paul Tenorio]

Yeah. And I think you. The U.S. winning and playing as well as they did in that first game, even just the Paraguay game was enough.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Paul Tenorio]

To draw in more of the casual sports fans. But the US the audience here loves big events, they love big stars and they love when it. Something lives up to the billing. And so I, I think in addition to the US playing well and scoring four goals against Paraguay in that first game and, and playing fun football, there was this added benefit of that first day where it was Messi, Mbappe and Holland going back to, back to back and going two goals, two goals. Hat trick for Messi to top it all off. And, and at that point it was like, if you're not bought in now, what more do you need? And then even, you know, another thing that everyone loves is the underdog story, Kate Verde against Spain in the first group stage game. And they're able to kind of create that. And so it was immediately was, you must tune in. This has everything you want. And we saw those audiences getting bigger and bigger and bigger and the record numbers for television viewers, for Fox and for Telemundo. And so, you know, that is the enormous benefit of hosting it in this country where you have this enormous commercial market, these swaths of sports fans and opportunity to turn those sports fans into football fans. And that, that certainly was happening during the course of this tournament.

[Adam Levinthal]

Do you think those people were into the soccer or into the US Winning at soccer?

[Paul Tenorio]

Both. I think it was. It was the US Winning. I think it's also, there's an event crowd, especially in la, where the US Played that first game. It's the same idea of the Super Bowl. You know, the. The vast majority of fans that show up to a Super bowl aren't the fans of those teams. They're the ones who want to say, I went to a Super Bowl. And I think there was a lot of that happening, especially considering the price of entry. Right. That it turned it into an event crowd of, I must go to this World cup game that's in my backyard. But I think after. After that initial rush of event fans, there were people that were here to watch the football and there were people that fell in love with it over the course of the tournament. And I think that, you know, that is the. That is the whole point of this in the United States is can you convert those event fans and those sports fans into ones that started to enjoy the sport for the first time? And to say, I want to watch this, and any of us, you know, I don't know if you guys had this experience, but getting in the back of a cab or going to a restaurant, for me, it's. It's not normal to. To hear conversation about what's happening in football around the U.S. and so there's.

[Adam Crafton]

You get. You got an extra buzz out of that.

[Paul Tenorio]

Of course, of course. I mean, it's like why I love traveling so much to Europe or South, because being a soccer writer in the United States. Oh, you're a sports writer. What do you cover? Yeah, soccer. Oh, soccer.

[Adam Crafton]

Oh, what kind?

[Paul Tenorio]

Like the real. Like, do you cover European or just mls? And there's that constant conversation. Whereas now it was the thing. And, and, and that's important is. Is to. To change minds about the sport to a certain degree and to reinforce what the best of the sport can be. And I think this World cup really did that. Like, I thought it was really important that the stars have played the way they played, because ultimately, that's how people watch sports now. More and more, they don't tune in necessarily to teams. They want to watch the best players, and the best players gave them reason

[Adam Crafton]

to, in terms of things. So broadly speaking, it's worked, it's been a success.

[Adam Levinthal]

Right.

[Adam Crafton]

What are the things that haven't worked? Have hydration, breaks worked, for example? Is that something that's going to stick or is it when you're playing in air Conditioned stadiums. It just looks like a little bit of a money grab for commercial purposes. I mean, I hate to accuse anyone of money grabbing.

[Adam Levinthal]

No, I mean it's worked in games where it's been necessary.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Levinthal]

So I mean, I was at France v. Paraguay in Philadelphia where it was probably the hottest game I've ever been at. Yeah. And it was, it was well over 100 degrees and there was also a wind blowing, but it was like hot air blowing at you. It felt like you were in a blast furnace. Clearly you needed hydration breaks. I mean, it would have been insane. It was insane. The game was even played, to be honest, even at five in the afternoon, it was that hot. And the only reason it wasn't delayed that night was cause there was a thunderstorm due straight after the game. So actually it wasn't really about, you know, we really think it's right they play. It was. If we delay, they might not be able to play until about 10 in the evening. So those kind of games, of course you need hydration breaks. It would be nuts. I think where people, the nuance of where people have been opposed to this is the idea that it's mandated for every single game, regardless of temperature.

[Adam Crafton]

But does it change the dynamic of the game completely? So therefore teams would say, I felt

[Adam Levinthal]

like it did at the start of the tournament. I still don't love it. I wouldn't want it in the Premier League every week. I don't think we're going to get it in the Premier League or the Champions League every week. But by the end of the tournament you kind of got. This is kind of part of being in the FIFA Goldfish Bowl. They kind of bring stuff in and then you kind of get used to it. And by the end you're like, well, if you, you know, you factor in the other 1,000 things that they've done that you don't really like, it's not in the top five. Right. And that's kind of the way it works a little bit. And when it was the England Argentina game the other night, I actually remember sort of thinking, this is quite interesting to actually have this hydration break 20 minutes from the end of a semi final, almost dividing the game into quarters. The game's a really tense point. What can the two coaches do in this moment? Clearly not very much in the case of the England coach, depending on how

[Paul Tenorio]

you look at it.

[Wells Fargo Announcer]

Yeah.

[Adam Crafton]

Or too much.

[Adam Levinthal]

So I don't know. I mean, have hydration breaks been a success? Yes. If you're Fox Sports, it made a Huge amount of money. And I mean, Gianni Infantino has been clever, pretty manipulative, actually, with his words on this, you'd be shocked to know. But he kind of said, you know, FIFA, don't make anything from this. It's all about player welfare. But what you're going to see now is FIFA will go to the rights market for the next World cup, for the Men's World cup, for 2030. And that World cup is in Spain, Portugal, Morocco, where I think most of the stadiums are not air conditioned. And we're talking June, July. Look, go, you know, go to your. Don't leave this stream, but go to your phone, look at the temperatures. You're going to need hydration breaks there. So I presume FIFA will do the same again, where they will this time go to market and probably factor in when they're selling those rights that you're going to be able to sell these hydration breaks as commercial inventory, which therefore increases how much you can sell the media rights for all over the world, which will probably bring in hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions more

[Adam Crafton]

for FIFA, which is what it's all about.

[Adam Levinthal]

But it all goes to Cape Verde. That's.

[Adam Crafton]

And if you don't like footballing juggernaut

[Paul Tenorio]

hating on FIFA, they're just growing the sport.

[Adam Levinthal]

They are.

[Paul Tenorio]

I found it striking that Jordan Pickford during the semi final was pointing. He was pointing, you know, telling the ref, it's the hydration break time.

[Adam Crafton]

It's become so much part of the game.

[Paul Tenorio]

Yeah. And he recognized that it could help to slow a moment, to change the momentum, to give them a chance.

[Adam Crafton]

More natural for an American to have it split up into two quarters.

[Paul Tenorio]

It's so hard for me to say because I'm so used to watching football as it's been played forever, but I think it was much easier for Americans, especially the newcomers, to adjust to it.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Paul Tenorio]

You heard in the stadium the people booing that were there to watch the sport that they know and love and, and didn't love this being introduced. But yeah, for the larger audience, you know, 50 million people watch the US get beat badly by Belgium. I can promise you, 50 million people is not the normal audience for football in this country. So for whatever you want to call it, 30 million people that were tuning into the game because it was the big thing to watch. Quite normal, probably to have a commercial break halfway through.

[Adam Levinthal]

I have to say, I thought in stadiums, I didn't find it anywhere near as jarring as on broadcast. On broadcast, I found it quite annoying and actually, and maybe that's because you go to a commercial break or whatever.

[Adam Crafton]

And that was a different experience in the UK because we weren't going to a commercial break, you'd get an extra bit of analysis. So I suppose it's a different view but it was noticeable when I was watching the game here the other day. The England game? Yeah. Ads straight in, slammed straight in.

[Adam Levinthal]

Because in the stadium, I mean obviously we're in press boxes but you just sort of turn to the people around you, you have a bit of a chat. It didn't feel like three minutes in the stadium, whereas on TV it kind of dilts. And I think the other bit of it is sometimes football matches start a bit slowly. So sometimes you'll get a sort of cagey first 18, 19 minutes and then all of a sudden something starts to happen. 20, 21 minutes and then you'd find as soon as that happens, let's go and have a drinks break in an air conditioned stadium. And I think that's where it kind of really annoyed people.

[Adam Crafton]

We're going to have a commercial break of sorts here. But it's not a commercial break, it's a, it's a quiz, a little bit of trivia for our two guys on the, on the sofa. And we'll bring the answer up a little bit later on. But this is a teaser for you two, day 37 of the world Cup. It is an England based one, but you've got good knowledge Paul, so I'm backing you as well. Do you know which three players wore the number seven shirt for England at the 2014, 2018 and 2022 World Cups? Do you know which three players wore the number 7 shirt for England at the 2014,2018 and 2022 World Cups?

[Adam Levinthal]

I presume it was David Beckham from the director's box that he's in. In every game that we appear to

[Adam Crafton]

see, he is as omnipresent as in every commercial break. Yes.

[Adam Levinthal]

There can't just be one David Beckham at this point. If we go around America, you see these look alike contests everywhere. So in New York, sometimes in Washington Square park in New York you'll just have like a random Timmy Chalamet lookalike contest where about 120 people will turn up and try and win like $100 or a voucher trying to look like Timothy Chalamet. And I think that's what's happening with David Beckham at World cup matches. Now by the way, did you see her victorious celebration when England scored? Did you See this, I don't know,

[Adam Crafton]

I was more focused on him, but tell us.

[Adam Levinthal]

So in a previous game, I think Beckham was either celebrating or appealing in a very kind of evocative way, glary way. Pretty glaring for the smart seats. And Victoria was basically just there, like couldn't care less. That was the impression. Clearly that generated some social media discussion which she may or may not have been aware of. Yeah, I mean, he looks like he was kind of. I mean the way she was looking was probably a bit like he looks when she was like putting out her first sort of solo singles or something like that, like not that engaged, I presume. And then when England then went 1 nil up against Argentina, she leapt up, there was a big embrace. And guess what the headlines were. When you go onto like some of the tabloid websites, come on. Posh and Beck celebrate top of the thing. But they're not self aware about their publicity.

[Adam Crafton]

No, of course not. They would never do anything in a calculated way.

[Wells Fargo Announcer]

I've been getting really excited about all the fanfare surrounding the FIFA World Cup 2026. And luckily for me, the active cash Visa credit card from Wells Fargo scores unlimited 2% cash rewards on all types of fanfare. Purchases tickets to a game, Thunder sticks to make some noise, commemorative scarves to wave around, 2% cash rewards on all of that is a big win in my book terms. Apply visit wellsfargo.com ActiveCash Visa Worldwide Partner at the FIFA World Cup 2026

[Fin AI Announcer]

AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world. Complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when Fin goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at fin. AI.

[New York Times Announcer]

Hey, hold up. This is your minute, your day to play, to make, to move, to move through, to explore. It's your body to rest, to nourish, to grow. It's your mind. You know, it's your place, your life to love, to dream, to change. It's your world to understand. The New York Times. Find out [e-mail] yourworld.

[Adam Crafton]

Right, let's look ahead before we deal with Gianni Infantino and some other things. The 48 team World cup, you said you're quite happy with the extension of that to 64 teams for 2030. So we'd have 16 groups of four. It seemingly is being pushed by Common bowl quite a lot because you've got Paraguay, Uruguay and Argentina only with one game for that next tournament alongside the three other hosts. Which is laughable in itself. Do you think? Firstly, do you think it's going to happen in 2030 and is it just simply to give the Common bowl sides more than one game? Because at the moment they're just hosting one game.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah. So the way it works at the moment is Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay get a game each, then we move to Europe and Africa and it's more.

[Adam Crafton]

It's a recognition of the centennial World cup.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah. So 100th anniversary of the World cup, quite a nice idea in some ways. Will it go to 64? So the person pushing for this is Alejandro Dominguez, who is the president of Com Mobile, which is the South American confederation. And as you say, they want more games. They basically want a group stage each to be able to host. Now, I had conversations about this with pretty senior people. I would say in FIFA, maybe six months ago, they didn't want to do it Right. That view was the stadiums aren't good enough in certainly in Paraguay, it would need work, possibly Argentina too. And people will say, oh, but Argentina has some amazing football cathedrals and great atmospheres. The suites aren't good enough.

[Paul Tenorio]

Yeah, no suites.

[Adam Levinthal]

It's the suites, it's the suites, it's the stadium perimeter, it's the security, it's the safety, it's all of this stuff that would need work. Now, that doesn't mean it's not impossible to do in the next four years, but I think there are reservations about it, both from a quality perspective, also from a calendar perspective, if you've got 64 teams, that's a lot more games, unless you start reducing how many group stage games you actually have per group. So they were opposed to it at that point and the CONCACAF president, Victor Montagliani, has been out against it. The UEFA opposed to basically FIFA doing anything at all. So UEFA opposed to it. Now, the question is whether the success of the 48 team format has made those people rethink at all and made those people think, well, we might get away with the quality. Because if you think of some of the teams, right, if we just do this very quickly, who aren't here, Italy, Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales who else? Poland.

[Paul Tenorio]

Nigeria.

[Adam Levinthal]

Nigeria. Serbia. Cameroon. You're north Costa Rica.

[Paul Tenorio]

I should have been jumping in on that one.

[Adam Levinthal]

But, like, we're scratching around a bit, right? Like, once you go through those first sort of seven or eight now that means you're probably only going to have four or five that you would be kind of worried about from a. But then also, you probably couldn't. We've just. I've just reeled off like six European teams. If the world is going to expand how big this is, you're not gonna be able to have that many, I don't think. You know, you can't just put in 10 European teams, right? So I think. I think it would affect quality, probably. It would also ruin. I mean, qualifying is already terrible in several areas. I mean, you already have, I think, is it seven teams from South America

[Paul Tenorio]

and six from CONCACAF with a seventh potential qualifier. So it's fundamentally the best. One of the best tournaments ever was Coleman bowl qualifying, and it fundamentally changed how the qualifying felt.

[Adam Levinthal]

So. Yeah, so qualifying just becomes pointless really, for most. For. For many of the nations who ordinarily qualify for World Cups. I mean, for, you know, for England, it's already a kind of pointless exercise because, I mean, they qualify for this one without conceding a goal. You get no sense of your level. You know, if you think of the. The organizations that sell those TV rights, I mean, what are you paying for, you know, what are you paying for? Certain point. So I think those are the concerns around it. There's infrastructure concerns. The other thing is, you know, if Paraguay, Argentina, etc. Were to host a group stage each, you need what, four training bases, a FIFA quality as well. That's one of the reasons why America, where I think end up hosting this tournament a lot more often over the course of this century, because once the tournament goes to 48 teams, you need 48 training bases. Right. Of top, top quality. And most countries just don't have that.

[Paul Tenorio]

Yeah, it'll be more and more, I think, continental World Cups like we've seen, where you have to share across different countries in Europe or Africa or South America, just to have the facilities, the training facilities, the stadiums, the ability even to host and take on the fans that are going to be coming in to watch all of those things. I think if they do it, I could see them doing it. For us as Americans, we look at the NCAA tournament, which has expanded similarly and now is at 64 teams and has been for a while. Maybe they borrow the. In order to expand the tournament beyond 64. They did the. The kind of a playoff to get into the tournament where it's the first four play and then the two winners move on. Yeah, I could see them doing something like that where they almost have a mini tournament before the tournament starts. There's a.

[Adam Crafton]

And there's an opportunity to then sell. Sell rights around it.

[Paul Tenorio]

But it doesn't solve the issue for the confederations that. That lose value in the World cup qualifying rights because it's too easy to qualify, the games don't have stakes, and they've essentially ceded the idea of a playoff to get to a World cup, which is what qualifying is. They've ceded that money over to FIFA. And that, I think, will be a difficult pill for those confederations to swallow and to vote for.

[Adam Crafton]

Jenny. Infantino's point is always, we want to open up the world. The World cup to more teams, and we want to make the dream more possible. So we'll see how his sort of wash up from the tournament sounds, because then I guess that'll be the biggest clue as to what he's gonna allow and what he's gonna push for.

[Adam Levinthal]

Sorry. Yeah. I would just say, you know, he said to. In this tournament was something we're gonna look at.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Levinthal]

And he said, it's not. That is not a new thing. You know, he said that before a couple of times. I think what might be going on here is a bit of politics from Gianni, where he might want to make it look to the South Americans like, guys, look, I tried. These other guys won't go along with it. Right. You know, and remember, he's up for election next year. He already has the unanimous backing of South America. And I wonder if it's just to keep that in line a bit and just to basically say, look, I'm doing my best here. I've made the argument. You've made the argument the world doesn't want it, or he's just generally getting carried away and we're going to have a 6014 World Cup. But my instinct at the moment is it's the former.

[Adam Crafton]

Talk about. Rather than how the confederations view him, how the fans view him, because he has been sort of painted a little bit as a pantomime villain, a Bond villain at times by, you know, people booing him in stadia and things like that. He's obviously, you know, part of the rights agreement almost is to get his face on the screen. How do you sort of assess. I mean, you could go on for hours about, you know, Infantino, but in terms of the role that he's played at this World Cup.

[Adam Levinthal]

Well, there's different ways to look at it, right? I mean, he is let. He has been the driving force of what's been an extraordinary kind of commercialization of the World cup, which, you know, I mean, I think people remain unhappy with the ticket model that took place. You have investigations by attorney generals in New York, New Jersey, California and Texas ongoing, right, over FIFA's approach to ticketing. You know, the misleading ticket maps, the. The fact that millions of people bought tickets and then you had new categories which were better than the tickets that had already been sold being created. And obviously the pricing was, you know, extraordinary and excluded many people. What that didn't do was exclude all the people, because clearly there was enough people who love this product so much that they were prepared to pay for it. And I think that speaks to the fact that it's really hard to kind of mess up a World cup, right? Like, that is how good the product is. You know, it's every. The scarce. There's a scarcity value to it every four years. And if you put all the best players in the world, you know, every four years in a highly competitive environment with huge jeopardy, people really want to see that. And for some of these players as well, you know, Messi, Ronaldo, it was their last one. And, you know, Ronaldo hadn't played here, I mean, what, for 15 years or going on or something like that? No, maybe 10, 11, lost track. So there was a huge amount of people that wanted to see him. You know, you would go to these games, and it would just be. Even games where Ronaldo and Messi weren't playing, people would be wearing their jerseys. It was kind of extraordinary in that sense. That side of it was highly commercialized. Then you've got, like, the other side of Gianni, which is obviously, you know, the Peace Prize, and Flo Balogan and the decision that happened there, which kind of really, I think it kind of darkened the tournament really for a few days right in the middle. I think people. There was a real movement just before that of, oh, my God, everything has gone so well. You know, they've kind of got away with it, right? All of these concerns that before the tournament, ticketing, ice, all of this stuff, you know, ice has kind of stayed away from World cup host cities, which is what we thought would happen. That basically this request had kind of been made for a kind of quiet stay away.

[Adam Crafton]

But it's been similar to Russia, wasn't it, when they, you know, it was. People were forced To.

[Adam Levinthal]

And a similar thing of, like, you know, journalists getting to the country, being like, oh, my God, the real people are nice.

[Fin AI Announcer]

Right?

[Adam Levinthal]

Like, people in real life are nice. Who thought it. I mean, come on. But obviously what's happened is ice has continued to be. Just not in World cup cities, just in other areas. This stuff is still going on, but people don't see it. Right. And there's something quite dark about that as well, actually. You know, the way that that has played out well.

[Adam Crafton]

And, you know, the US strikes in Iran, they've kicked off again, the Iran stuff.

[Adam Levinthal]

And, you know, in the end, the Cape Verde goalkeeper was kind of dressed up as this amazing story of his mum's finally got here. Well, why wasn't she here in the first place? Because there were visa bonds, you know, that were too expensive for her for her to pay up to $15,000 to come into the country. So there's been a lot of stuff that's been going on that has kind of just been. Because the football's been so good, you kind of get distracted from it.

[Adam Crafton]

But these things seem to just bounce off him, don't they?

[Adam Levinthal]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Crafton]

And that. That's. Is anything going to change?

[Adam Levinthal]

Well, no. I mean, some of this is out of his control. The problem is he gives the idea that he has it under his control. Right. So in the year leading up to the tournament, he will say things like, and of course, everyone will be welcome in the United States. And then when that doesn't happen because of travel bans and because of visa bonds, he then looks like he's culpable for it. But the problem he has in the first place is he should just be saying, in the first place, we are just a soccer tournament.

[Paul Tenorio]

Right?

[Adam Levinthal]

We're bringing a soccer tournament. We can't save the world. But then that conflicts with his strap line of unite the world, heal the world. So he wants to be both things at once.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah. He picks and chooses as and when he wants. Yeah.

[Oregon Lottery Announcer]

Oregon parks make an Oregon summer. But what makes an Oregon park? Well, Oregon Lottery Gameplay helps, no matter the game. Megabucks, video lottery or keno. Funds from lottery games help support parks projects across the state, ensuring they stay safe, accessible and open for all. In fact, Discover State park scratches are in stores now. It's the perfect way to put a little bit of Oregon's parks in your pocket. The Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Must be 18 or older to play. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

[Adam Crafton]

Donald Trump's gonna be at the. At the final.

[Adam Levinthal]

Who's that?

[Adam Crafton]

Not been at any other game during the entire tournament. How significant does that feel to you as an American, having the president there? I mean, obviously we're, we were always expecting him to be there. But does it feel like a moment?

[Paul Tenorio]

It polarizes the moment, doesn't it? Like that's what he does. He's a polarizing figure in this country. There are a lot of people who don't like him and there are also a lot of people who voted for him, which is why he's the president right now. But when he is there, it doesn't make it. He's not a unifying figure. And I think that's was the most noticeable when you talk about what happened with Flo Baligun in the national team. It was a team that everyone got behind that was this uniting thing. And then he got involved and it was a divisive thing almost immediately, both globally and domestically. And so, yeah, it'll change the feel. It'll impact the way the game feels, the way the moment feels like it did at the Club World Cup. When he's on stage and he's handing it, he becomes the story. And that's inevitable, right? With a leader of that stature being there in general, but certainly one that likes to embrace those moments. You know, Trump didn't get off the stage after he handed the trophy off at the Club World Cup.

[Adam Crafton]

You'd expect you. I mean, I, I'm sure, surely, surely in this moment there has been a briefing of this is what's going to happen on the day with the trophy. Don't let that happen again. Where he was almost sort of. They're aware, just all the way by.

[Paul Tenorio]

They're aware of that.

[Wells Fargo Announcer]

Right.

[Paul Tenorio]

In the same way we talked about Victoria Posh and Beck. Right. They understand what the, what the conversation becomes after moments like that. And Johnny, of course, is always going to be aware. And I think Johnny being on stage with him, he said, we will present the trophy. That's so that they can make it run still the way they want it to run and not let it become what they didn't anticipate to happen at the Club World Cup.

[Adam Levinthal]

It will just be whatever Trump wants it to be.

[Paul Tenorio]

Right?

[Adam Levinthal]

Very like that has been. If we've learned anything right from the last year, I mean, just, just run through some of the stuff. FIFA have offices in Trump's, in a Trump building, right. In Manhattan, in Trump Tower. They pay rent to the Trump family, which in itself is an. Is the most extraordinary thing. You know, they moved their plans for the World cup draw so it would be in a center that is now basically run by Trump and his allies at the Kennedy center, which was kind of once upon a time, a kind of. Very kind of unifying performing arts centre. And beloved still is by many people. You know, they played the ymca, for God's sake, right at the end of the World cup draw to make him happy. So whatever he would like this to be, I suspect it will be. I would say. I do think it's pretty normal for the head of state of the host country to give the trophy. That is not an unusual thing at all. Right. And I don't think that should be kind of framed as like, you know, Trump involving himself.

[Adam Crafton]

I'm sure it's just his previous involvement.

[New York Times Announcer]

Sure.

[Adam Crafton]

In a trophy lift.

[Don Garber]

Yeah.

[Adam Levinthal]

And obviously that happened at the Club World Cup. It does. It has an impact on security. You know, the event. You know, people will have to come a lot earlier. We've seen this at other events kind of over the past few years. But again, you know, that's not abnormal for an event of this size to have heads of state and politicians. I remember at the France, Argentina game in 2022, you, of course, memorably had the Qatari emir dressing Messi in. In the local bish. Some people found that very offensive. I actually, I thought it was kind of fine, a local custom. And, you know, other people would say it was kind of Qatar creating a PR opportunity for itself and, you know, having someone dressed in their local attire, clearly, you know, Trump giving Messi the trophy, you know, Trump who frames himself as this winner and it's very powerful pr, I think for him, also for Gianni as well, you know, to have a picture with. In fact, this is obviously presuming this could be Rodri.

[Adam Crafton]

Couple of other points. I wanted to bring up the pitch at the MetLife Stadium. You've done a lot of sort of work on this and there's obviously been great concerns over the. Over the quality. Is it still a significant issue? Does it have the potential to ruin the spectacle or not? Or have we seen enough games during the tournament to actually go, actually, it'll be okay.

[Adam Levinthal]

I think it'll ruin the spectacle. The players haven't enjoyed playing on it.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Levinthal]

And this has been a problem going back to Copa America in 2024, Club World Cup 2025. They complain it's too hard, particularly when there's. I think there was one game. I can't remember the game. It was. Maybe it was Norway, Senegal, maybe Or maybe it was a France game. And because there'd been really heavy rainfall in the prior 24 hours, it actually moved a bit better. And there is going to be a lot of rain on Saturday, so that might help as well. But the complaint has been it's been hard, too hard. And I think Thomas Tuchel said it kind of felt like AstroTurf. It was like bounced the way the ball was bouncing, which was pretty kind of strong, really, for him to say, though. Then he said, but it was perfectly playable, which was a bit annoying as a journalist, because it felt like he'd just given you a line and then took it away at the last moment. The other thing to think about here is there's going to be something different here, which is there is going to be a show on the field. And that, I think, I mean, you know, FIFA's pitch manager, Alan Ferguson, in an interview with the Athletic before the tournament, said, that wouldn't be my choice. So it's pretty clear, you know, that FIFA have prioritized the show over the quality of the turf in this instance. And there's various factors that go into that. You know, both the quality of the feel, but also the length of half time. You know, if you are a player who, for 30 or 20, 30 years of your life you have played this sport and your body, which go has so much preparation now, the way you sleep, the what you eat, the supplements you take, all of this sort of stuff is so methodical. The rest, the recovery, and all of a sudden your half time is extended by an amount of time. We still don't know, two days out from the final, Right. There's an internal target of 20 minutes. That's the internal target from FIFA is 20 minutes. Last year, Club World Cup, I think it ended up being 23 minutes. Halftime Coppa was even longer. I think the year before when they had a halftime show, Club World cup final last year, it wasn't on the field, Right. So this time you're going to have to set up the field, set down the field, allow Madonna, Shakira, bts, Justin Bieber to do what they're going to do on the field. Good luck telling Madonna to keep it short. Not sure even Gianni can do that. The show itself, I think, is going to be 11 minutes 30, but will it be a little bit longer? Who knows? But then you've got all the, you know, the players have to get off the pitch, players have to come on, back on the pitch.

[Adam Crafton]

Well, and then. And there's talk of them potentially Being allowed to then warm up a little bit as well.

[Adam Levinthal]

Well, and it will depend how long that break is. If it exceeds 20 minutes, they'll probably have to.

[Paul Tenorio]

Well, you, you have to imagine they have extra bikes in the back. Get the players on them, keep those legs moving. You know, we talk about how players are ready for these moments when they were going to move the kickoff of the England Mexico game.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah.

[Paul Tenorio]

How much drama that caused because coaches have managed players when they're going to get their treatment for injuries they're nursing, when they're going to eat their meal. Carbo load players don't want to eat pasta at nine in the morning. So even just moving kickoff three hours changes everything about a player's routine, everything about how a coach has prepared players. You don't think that's going to happen if you suddenly double halftime? Of course they're going to have to find ways to stay warm and stay ready for the second half of the match.

[Adam Crafton]

Is it, Is it necessary? Why, why is it so? Why is it so important?

[Paul Tenorio]

What's necessary? What's necessary? They have to pay to grow football around the world. How, how could they manage that without this halftime show?

[Adam Levinthal]

Well, the show itself is going to. They say the aim is to raise $100 million for something called Global Citizen, which is a kind of chat, which is a charity of some. Of some sort of. So, you know, none of the performers are paid in this case. And I'm not sure how a show itself will necessarily raise that money, but clearly there's something linked to that, I think, like Shakir is giving something like a dollar from each ticket sold from her tour towards it, and FIFA are giving a dollar from each of their tickets towards this fund, et cetera. But yeah, there is clearly, you know, if the aim is $100 million to charity, I mean, FIFA are making 9 to 11 billion from the tournament. They could just give 100 million to charity. Are you looking forward to it? I'm quite excited to see Madonna and Shakira and bts. I mean, like, they have got the stars.

[Adam Crafton]

No, I don't think. I just don't think you need it. But I mean, the point I was trying to make with Paul as a US Citizen, it's like, yeah, you want the razzmatazz. That's what we have at the Super Bowl. It's part of the sort of the environment, it's the expectation of the broader audience and things like that. Maybe it's just sort of miserable Europeans going, well, we don't need that, you know, this is a foot. You know, I don't know that it's the expectation. Is it about the show?

[Paul Tenorio]

It's always about the show. It always is. I don't know that it would be the expectation, but it certainly won't seem odd or off. It'll feel quite normal because.

[Adam Crafton]

And it draws more people in.

[Paul Tenorio]

It draws a different audience in. At the super bowl, at least you know that there's an audience that tunes into the game and then there's an audience that tunes in just for the halftime show. Certainly that was the case with Bad Bunny this time around, where it was a real culture moment for Latinos all over the country to be able to watch a Latino performing at halftime. And I think it's always been that way. Same with the national anthem before the game, which they'll do. You know, those. Those are very normal things to see big celebrities, big performers on these stages. But, you know, and for those fans, by the way, they won't know that this is different. They won't know that it's longer than normal. They'll feel like. Or maybe they'll think it's a minute or two longer than normal, but they also won't notice if it affects the performance.

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah, I thought it was crazy when there was some stories a few months ago that the British broadcasters were not going to show the show, which has turned out to be incorrect.

[Adam Crafton]

Is that true on both?

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah, I think they're both going to show the show, I think. And at the time I thought that was ridiculous. As in the idea that they shouldn't show the show because sort of protest. Well, I don't even know. But to me, even if people don't, I think first of all, like, there's a lot of people who will actually want to see it, you know, like, these are quite big stars and there's a kind of novelty factor to like, even if you don't like it, to. Well, what's that gonna look like? How's that gonna kind of impact things? And then also, like, some people will want to hate watch it. Right. And be snarky about it.

[Paul Tenorio]

What's the difference? You know, they're gonna. If a show's being played, people are gonna watch it.

[Don Garber]

Yeah.

[Paul Tenorio]

And even for like young kids, you know, like when I went home after being away for five weeks, I saw my five year old and Shakira came on and he was like, this is the song.

[Adam Crafton]

The song.

[Paul Tenorio]

The song of the player introduction. Right.

[Adam Crafton]

It's not been. I don't mind the song, actually. I have to admit that I don't mind the song. I think if I, if I'd been in the stadiums every, for every game for 103 games up to now, I think I would be sick and tired of it. But when you hear it sparingly, I do quite like it.

[Adam Levinthal]

The other thing that FIFA have done really well, while I'm praising FIFA, the displays before the game where they kind of roll out the flags and you have the kind of globe in the middle and then the national anthems with everyone on the field. I think it's looked incredible both in stadium and on broadcast and actually in stadium. And I know a lot of people don't like this. You know, people taking photos during games. Everyone has been there taking a photo of that moment. Thank you, Gianni.

[Adam Crafton]

Well done, Adam. Well, speaking about the sort of the legacy almost of this World cup and, you know, introducing it to a new audience on Tuesday, we've got a special show which is going to be featuring Paul about what next for mls, obviously the domestic league here in the States. And one of the people that you are going to be hearing from is the MLS commissioner, Don Garber. Here's just a little taster of what he's going to be explaining on the show.

[Don Garber]

I never thought that Messi would perform at the level he's performing in the World Cup. I also knew in my heart that everything we've seen, everything we've seen this summer was going to happen and it was going to shock the world. It would shock FIFA, it would shock the international community, it would shock the media community. With 50 million people watching, the last U.S. game is one of the highest viewed, you know, sports events of recent years because we've been building this for 30 years. I wholeheartedly believe that without Major League Soccer, building the commercial market, creating a supporter culture, building the foundation for the sport, being at it every single day through rain and shine and thick and thin and making tough decisions and having some fun and getting a bit lucky that the World cup would be what it is today and to your point. And now we got to take it from here.

[Adam Crafton]

So it's going to be fascinating to see what the legacy of this, of this World cup here in the States is also. We mustn't forget that there is also legacy issues that we will be following in Mexico. Obviously, they have a, you know, a strong league there already. But it will be interesting to see what the legacy for the World cup in Mexico is and also in Canada as well. So that's coming up on Tuesday. The, the Next episode of the Athletic FC to come after the end of the World cup reveal of the quiz question. Can you remember what the question was? Let's just bring it up very, very quickly. Do you know which three players wore the number seven shirt for England at the 2014, 2018 and 2022 World Cups? It's almost as if we thought England were going to be in the World cup final. So we don't litter it with England questions.

[Adam Levinthal]

Can you think I would say 22 Saka Incorrect. I was going to say 2018 Dele Alli Incorrect.

[Adam Crafton]

Let's see if you can get all three wrong.

[Adam Levinthal]

And 2014. I don't remember anyone from 2014. That was a terrible tournament. Who do we even have?

[Adam Crafton]

Shall I give you the correct answer?

[Adam Levinthal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Crafton]

So. And it was correctly answered by Eric de la Fuente Vidal. 2014 Jack Wilshire, 2018 Jesse Lingard and 2022 Jack Grealish. Remember him? Jack Grealish. Wowzers. He would have carried the ball forward, wouldn't he?

[Adam Levinthal]

There's a lot of ball players that have had a nice, very good preseason and that all the Americans who have fallen in love with soccer can find on the Premier League in a few weeks time.

[Adam Crafton]

Very good.

[Adam Levinthal]

Well done.

[Adam Crafton]

Right, thank you very much for watching. Thank you to you, Paul. We'll see you again on Tuesday.

[Paul Tenorio]

Yes.

[Adam Crafton]

Thank you to you, Adam.

[Adam Levinthal]

Pleasure.

[Adam Crafton]

Have a lovely weekend. We are going to be back on Sunday ahead of the final. Very much looking forward to that. Just a quick reminder for you, as I always say, the athletic coverage of the World cup is free via the app, so you can enjoy that right now. Time's running out, so get stuck into it and we will see you once again on Sunday. Take care till then.