Ayo Akimolere (2:06)

The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. El Clasico was back to its fiery best on Sunday as Lamin Yamal's pre match comments sparked fury in Madrid. Did he reignite this fixture Here with us for this one, we have Paul Belous. We've also got Andy Mitton as well. Right, Paul Var. Decisions disallowed goals. Penalty save. Cards aplenty. Heated scenes at full time. It ended 21 to Madrid, who are now five points clear of Barcelona. Was this just a little reminder that there's still plenty of fury and spice left in this famous fixture?

Paul Belous (2:49)

I think that there's always been, to be honest, but whenever we see this sort of stuff happening in a game, it just, yeah, remind us of why Barca and Real Madrid feel different. I honestly think that both teams, none of them, were at their best in pure football terms. I don't think that Real Madrid is a finished product. They are very far from that. And I think that Barcelona are struggling a lot with physicality, with injuries, with the individuals that they have available and that played a huge part on the version that they could show up in the Bernabeu. But despite all the football elements that I'm mentioning here, apart from that, everything was pure classico. Just the big talk before the game, the atmosphere in the game and what happened after it, which I think it's going to keep building up through like a big rivalry through this season.

Ayo Akimolere (3:36)

Yeah, you were there, Andy. What was the atmosphere like? Was it intense?

Andy Mitten (3:39)

I think it's the biggest game in world football and partly because of the status of the two, two clubs, but it delivers. I've been to so many, let's say Manchester derbies, which are really disappointing, the terrible games of football and there are poor classico games, but it delivers 80% of the time with absolutely spectacular games. And Sunday was not, not spectacular. I think the Bernabeu is my, my favorite stadium in the world, the way that they've redeveloped it. Barca may challenge that when camp now is ever finished, which is in a race with Sagrada for me at the moment to see which will be finished first. But you have the names and I think it's got a fight to keep that position because while those two clubs are huge with a global following, they're in competition with the Premier League. And I think it's a real struggle for La Liga. If you compare the finances of a mid table Premier League team with a mid table La Liga club. And also, you know, we're talking here predominantly to a UK market. The number of people who don't watch the Classico because the way the TV fixtures have been shifted around with the UK rights holders, that is also a problem. You know, I had people saying to me on Sunday is It on TV anywhere. Where can I see this? And I'm like, there's 600 million people around the world watching this game. Great Britain is a really big. An island is a really big footballing place. They should be able to be watching the Classico. And it can be tricky to find.

Ayo Akimolere (5:12)

Yeah, we'll talk about this fixture a little later on, Paul. But it did definitely did get heated. I know Hansi Flick was suspended for this one, but the police got involved right at the end as well, didn't they?

Paul Belous (5:22)

Yeah, basically the police had to jump in when there was a sort of an ambush fueled by the words that Laminamal had said before the games. It all started when Laminamal went to shake hands with Dani Carvajal. They did shake hands, but you could see that Dani Carvajal's main goal in there was to send a message. And he made the gesture of like speaking too much with his hands. And then, yeah, it all went off. Courtois just jumped in. There was an ambush in there. Camavinga separating Lamin Diamal Marque Cazador took La Minjamal away. And on his way to the tunnel, Vinicius Jr. Just stepped in and just told Laminamal off. They both told each other off. And that's when the police was required just to step up. Because even Rudiger, who is injured, Raphinha, who is injured as well, they stepped in to try to separate as well. And yeah, this is the sort of stuff that we were talking about, the heat that surrounds the Clasico. And you could see the sort of bitterness between two teams that now have two generations that I think that they know that they are going to compete each other not just for classicals, but for individual awards, for Champions League, for everything that is going to go around the Spanish football and European football in the next five years, let's say.

Ayo Akimolere (6:31)

What about his performance, though, Yamal? You talk about what happened pre text to the match. It was quite underwhelming, wasn't it, Paul? Does that add to more of his disappointment, you reckon? You know, we saw him sort of walking off the pitch looking just really heavy.

Paul Belous (6:43)

I think that it has a lot to do as well with the fact that Lamina is not fully fit. He's not 100% fit. He's dealing with a groin injury, which he needs to learn how to manage the pain because pain is still there. He cannot be like 100% on his capabilities and he has to learn with that. And in the way that Lamina Mal plays, that's really Key if he cannot like burst into speed and if he doesn't feel confident enough to take on players of the level of Real Madrid, that has a big part on, on his game as well. But having said that, I, I would say that there was like a special focus on him, like from the Bernabeu fans and every time that Laminal touched the ball, all the Madrid fans were against him and like shouting and whistling and everything. So that might have an impact as well. But I think that mainly the disappointment of La Mina Mal was on himself, knowing that he's not at his best.

Andy Mitten (7:36)

I think these are the scenes which nobody wants to see, but actually everybody loves to see them because it leads to us talking about stuff like this. It is a compliment in some ways to the effectiveness of Lamina Mal that Bernabeu is booing him. He's 18 years old. It's also the first time in my career as a journalist that my 11 year old daughter has broke a story to me having seen it on TikTok. So this shows how the narrative is changing and she's like, the Madrid players are going to be so angry about this. And at Barca won, he would be celebrated for his self assured arrogance. You know, I think Paul wrote a piece where he talked about he's expected to do the outrageous on the pitch. So what's he supposed to be like off the pitch? You're being sensible and saying, yeah, you shouldn't be saying stuff like that. But there's a lot of people, especially younger people, who do like it. You know, if I mention to my daughters, who are both Catalans about Dani Carvajal, you will not get a positive response. So there's so much tribalism here, a lot in the heat at the moment. Carvajal's 33, he should have reacted in a better way. Is the space for the what Lamine Mal said in sport? No, but yes. I mean, it adds to the enmity, it adds to the edge. I've seen it before, you know, I was inside the stadium when the pig's head was thrown at Luis Figo.

Ayo Akimolere (9:00)

Yeah.

Andy Mitten (9:00)

And it's one of the most visceral things I've ever seen in my life. The atmosphere was incredible, in a good way, if I'm honest. It was horrible, but it was. I can't even remember the score of the game, but I can remember everything. What was it, Paul?

Paul Belous (9:16)

I think it was a Neil. Neil, I think. Yeah.

Andy Mitten (9:19)

But you know, I'm remembering something that a fan did rather than something that went on, on the pitch. And I'm not entirely surprised at the scenes that I saw at the end at the Bernabeu. And I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we saw similar scenes wherever the game is played when the return fixture is played in Catalunya.

Ayo Akimolere (9:38)

Well, Paul, back to pre match. What did Lemal actually say and why did it spark so much anger from Madrid?

Paul Belous (9:44)

Yeah, so basically the game was on Sunday, right? So on Thursday, Laminal went to the Kings League. I don't know if you know what the Kings League is. Jarapique's seven A side football competition, which is organized by Gerard Piquet. And yeah, Lamin Diamal happens to own a team in that competition. So he basically went there for a pre weekend show to sort of like talk about the competitions game over the weekend. And I think that the people in there just tried to book Lamina Malavid in terms of, yeah, what are you going to do with your team in here? But what are you going to do at the Clasico as well? And he entered this sort of game banter, this sort of chit chat that turned out to be fuel to the fire for all the Real Madrid players that I was in the Bernabeu as well. And if somebody told me that Xabi Alonso had plastered all the walls in the stadium and in the dressing room with Lamina Mal's quotes and showed the players, I would believe him because you could see that it really had an impact. It might not be like, I mean, when you look at it now, you might think, ah, that shouldn't be too bad. I mean, it's part of the game. But with how things are taken here in Spain, especially with the Barca and Madrid rivalry, everything is really dramatic in that terms. And yeah, Lamin Jamal, I think that he learned that in the hard way with that Classico. I'm not sure if he's gonna change. I think that it's part of Lamin's DNA to be this teasing to like these sort of challenges and to play with the social media culture that he's grown up into. But I think that it's gonna be a lesson for everyone this what happened in this classical.

Ayo Akimolere (11:17)

Yeah, Paul makes a good point, Andy. I mean, this is young men on social media. I mean, he won't be the first to put something on social media and it go viral. He knows pretty much what he's doing. Is this a lesson or. I mean, we'll probably see another one next Classico, surely.

Andy Mitten (11:31)

I think it is, because I think he will think twice next time he says Something about Real Madrid knowing what the likely repercussions, at some point his brain is going to go, what's in it for me here apart from a load of abuse, a load of real life reaction. And maybe that will come with maturity, maybe that will come with spending more time with the Spanish national team where he actually gets to know these players a lot more. But then he already knows them, you know, he's already established in that team. He is playing to a certain element who like to see him trash talking against Real Madrid. But there's a huge risk when you do it. There's a huge risk for any team. Brighton and Hove Albion's official Twitter account before the game at Old Trafford on Saturday was posting great memories of Old Trafford. And just as Paul saying, if you're Xabi Alonso, put Lamine Yamal's words around the Real Madrid dressing room. Ruben Amering could have done the same at Old Trafford on Saturday. And it is a motivational tool. So in effect you're giving an advantage to your opponents, you're motivating them. I wouldn't say he was caught out, but he was pushed towards saying something which was anything but bland. This was the opposite of a pre match press conference where the quotes are cliched and we know what they're going to say and are frankly not interesting. This was interesting. This is probably what he really feels, but he was led into it, so I do suspect he'll become a little bit more media savvy. I've been in the Bernabeu when Lionel Messi and Ronaldinho have been applauded by Real Madrid fans. They were that good. Now, no Bara player deserved any applause on, on Sunday in, in the Classico. But equally there was a level of respect to those players, even though they will have hated them or strongly disliked them. Maybe Laminal could learn a little bit from that because there's no love lost between those two clubs. But Real Madrid are still Real Madrid. I'm playing in the Bernabeu. Is still playing in the Bernabeu.

Ayo Akimolere (13:33)

Yeah. I wonder, Paul, how Barcelona managed this young man's growing stardom, because it's been an insane rise in the last couple of years at least, you know, is there any guidance on the, on the ground to hope that things like this don't ever happen again? Because he's one of the highest earners, if not the highest earner in the club and he's only 18 years old.

Paul Belous (13:53)

Yeah, that's, that's a big question here in Barcelona, because right now I'm not sure if there's any authority or any voice inside the club who is in a position to tell or to offer Yamal some guidance. He's grown into that sort of relevance into the club. One because the club really needed that. The club needed this sort of franchise player, this big figure on the field and off the field, footballing and commercial from, from both perspectives. And then he's earned it as well for the way that he played and what he showcased on a football pitch. So Barcelona basically, I think that in a way they allowed Lamin to have these powers and they just gave them away. And now Laminamal, I'm not going to say that, is of course the king of the club. He's one of the most important persons in there. But now it's difficult to find the right person to tell him, to offer him the right guidance. And it's something that Barcelona will have to ask themselves in the coming weeks and in the coming future to know how they handle this. Because to this point and in a status that was established last summer when he signed this contract extension that put him as the top owner in the squad. Yeah, he's the most important figure in the club. Like to put that responsibility to an 18 year old who was really capable to take that responsibility on the pitch because he could carry the club in the biggest stage. But there's a lot of ramifications to that of the pitch and what happens in Spain and I think that the club will have to learn as well from that. It's not. You cannot just put the blame on Lamina Mal.

Ayo Akimolere (15:27)

Yeah. Can an 18 year old hold this on their shoulders, Andy? Highest earner in the club, the face of the club, the voice of the club. I mean there's a lot going on here and if I'm honest, watching it from afar, this could easily go the other way as well in the non football activities. You know, we want to see this kid on the field but there could be a lot of distractions around as well if we, if we're not careful.

Andy Mitten (15:49)

And Paul's point is, right, you need good people around you. You know Lionel Messi, he always had stableish people around him. He was in a long term relationship in his private life. I have seen other outrageously talented footballers crash and burn at camp. Now Maradona famously in the 80s, but you know, Ronaldinho, his demise at Barca which led to him leaving to AC Milan when he should have been at his peak, was, was not as he would have hoped for because he had a very what should we say a busy social life? And you've got to be careful. He is 18, but that is all the more reason to have people around him who've got his best interests, because where'd you go from Barcelona? It's usually down. You're not going to be got a Real Madrid after Sunday, is it? So Serie A is not as attractive as what it was. There's the Premier League, but Barca can still compete with the biggest earners in the world. I speak to top Premier League players. They would love to leave England and play for Barcelona. And Lamina Lamau will not forget that because he's grown up there. But the grass isn't going to be greener, so he's got to protect his status. As Paul said, he is now the highest earner at his age. He's got extremely savvy agents who've not been shy in making sure that he's become the highest earner. And he deserves it because he's outrageously talented. But he's got to keep a straight compass. He's going to have a lot of pressures and maybe speak to someone like Marcus Rashford about, you know, being an online superstar. The pros, but also the cons. And there are many cons that can come from that and humans handle it in different ways. Now, if you're going to keep making comments as he did last Thursday before the Classico, I don't see how that really benefits Lamina. So maybe he needs to wind it in a little bit, let his football do the talking. That's always the best way.

Paul Belous (17:54)

There's a good point as well to make on what Andy was saying here and making the comparisons with Ronaldinho, Messi, I think that Messi, in a way, seeing the downfall of Ronaldinho and he was really close to Ronaldinho and just seeing the good things and the bad things of being a Barca superstar. And then I think that there was more a succession path with Messi and Ronaldinho. Laminal has. Has been just thrown in there like, wow, you're just good. You're going to be the king in the world now. And Messi followed the succession plan that I was mentioning, which was seeing Ronaldinho for three consecutive seasons just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And then after that, Barca said, okay, we're going to give you the number 10. We're going to give you like the superstar role that we expect from you because you have the capabilities. That's not Lamin fault that he's found this sort of a spectrum in here. It's benefited him as well because he has this contract, he has this position, he's arguably one of the biggest brands in world football right now, which this brand has been filled. That's why for his character and his social media teasing and his being a bit of a naughty boy in some terms. But yeah, it's something that Lamin has not had and that other stars were just Messi and Ronaldinho had in the past.

Ayo Akimolere (19:08)

Yeah, but also you talk about brands, Paul, for the brand of Barcelona, it's important this kid fulfills his potential, surely.

Paul Belous (19:16)

Yeah, yeah. No, no, absolutely. In the same way, like if we look at it, I mean, it cannot. He couldn't have won like every single Clasico. Everything couldn't have worked out for him in every game. So it happened. Now, if Barcelona want to look at it from the most positive lens that they could is like, okay, we've had this warning. You've seen what happens with the Spain media industry as well, and what happens Barca Madrid and everything. Learn from that and we will learn from that. There's still a long season to play for and you have a long career to work on. So right here from that.

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Ayo Akimolere (21:26)

Foreign Just a quick one on sort of the importance of Classico and actually if we talk about Lemin himself, the importance of players like that for La Liga. How important is it to have eyes on La Liga right now if Classico is going to be the main focus to keep this brand of La Liga alive?

Andy Mitten (21:51)

It's really important for the league. You want positives, you don't want perceived negatives like games being moved to the United States. You've seen the power of the Premier League. You saw the statistic that I think Sunderland spent more in the transfer market than any team in Europe apart from Real Madrid in the summer. So they need to stay relevant. Barca are going to move to the new stadium. If you've got someone who can legitimately claim to be one of the best free players in world football as your flagship, then you capitalize on that in terms of your merchandise. And Lemin also benefits from being at Barcelona. You know, if he was playing for Hull City, then it's not quite as. Quite as attractive for. For him either. So he can get the numbers they can work off, off each other. La Liga's in an interesting place. You know, I've seen the success of the Spanish teams easily outshining the English teams when it comes to European trophies, and yet I'm seeing the results. What I think is English clubs becoming even more powerful. La Liga is the second most popular league by several measurements in the world. It's got a lot of virtues and a lot of areas which it can improve on, but that is the absolute flagship game. There's not really one game in the Premier League which competes with it. You know, Man United, Liverpool is huge and it's Global, but there's not 85000 people or 100000 people in the stadium. I won't say it's a post Messi Ronaldo hangover, but if we wind back a decade, it was the absolute number one game. And. And now I'm sounding hesitant because I think Spanish football is hesitant stages to where it goes next.

Ayo Akimolere (23:36)

Yeah. Are you hesitant, Paul? Does La Liga need Clasico to be the box office smash to get more eyes on the prize?

Paul Belous (23:43)

Yeah, I think so. And I think that it's what Javier Tevas has wanted since the Guardiola Mourinho, Cristiano Ronaldo Lionel Messi days. That's the business model that he's fueled since those days, just to try to make those teams really top teams and just to be able to lure the best Premier League players out, which is something that they can do still now. And as long as you have this, you're going to have a good product because you have two giants. I mean, I think that in a way I agree totally with Andy Mitten with the distance that there is from La Liga and the Premier League clubs and the middle clubs and the gap that is creating like year, year, year by year between both competitions. But in the same way, as I was saying, Real Madrid reported over 1 billion euros of revenues. No English club has done that. Barca plan to cash in over a billion euros of revenues in the next budget as well. So Barca Madrid are at this level of creating income, so they just can create more than any Premier League club in terms of a sponsorship, in terms of whatever you want to call it. So they are, I'm not going to say in a safe place because football changes a lot, but I would say that they are still very pretty much relevant, if not the best, the most relevant brands in world football. The challenge is not to become the Ligue 1 in terms of it's just got to be Barca and Madrid and just let the other teams be a desert basically because they have no money to attract new talent and they are just going to have to rely on the academies to bring out talents. And after a season and a half seeing us middle table Premier League club just to steal that player of them.

Andy Mitten (25:19)

I think Paul makes a really good point there about not becoming Ligue 1 and it is a duopoly rather than a monopoly. But 12 of the last 14 titles have been won by Bars from Madrid. I can remember Valencia, Deportivo, La Caruna. It is a good thing when you've got challenges. And I think one of the virtues of the Premier League is you've had six different winners in the last 15 years. PSG. Winning it all the time, I don't think is a good model for French football. Bayern Munich. I think I've won 12 out of the last 13. Even in the Premier League last year, when Liverpool had run away with the title and the free relegated teams were going down quite early, the viewership figures dip significantly. People like Jeopardy and Bars from Madrid being strong and they're absolutely relevant. As Paul says, they've redeveloped the stadiums. Both the cities are doing really well. The Spanish economy is doing well, The Spanish national team is doing well. But you Also need a Valencia or a Sevilla or a Betis or an athletic club to be pushing them. And already, you know, before the Classico, the big two were five points clear. And I just thought, we're really early on in the season here. I thought it was interesting what Girona did a couple of years ago with Manchester City's assistant, if you like. But you saw how they faded when they had to play in the Champions League as well. You know, Valencia. These are the cities where a challenge has got to be coming from. But look at the league table. It's certainly not coming from Spain's third biggest city this year.

Paul Belous (26:48)

Four weeks ago, I was at the presentation of Espanol's new ownership. Alan Pace, which is the Burnley guy, basically now has taken over Espanol. A lot of the questions were like, do you see here in Espanol a quicker way to get to European football and to get to top places? I guess that this could be a lifeline for La Liga, knowing that, of course, a lot of clubs are in a bad financial state and it's difficult to buy them off because it's tough. Yeah, if you have like huge debt and everything. But La Liga might offer like a quick. Like a really quick away to European football and to the biggest platforms in the industry rather than the Premier League.

Ayo Akimolere (27:27)

It's so hard to make it to the top form. Expensive.

Paul Belous (27:30)

I'm not sure that if it's worth it to. I mean, I don't have the money to buy a club, but all the investors who know this sort of stuff, I don't know if it's affordable anymore to buy club in England.

Guillermo Rai (27:40)

Yeah.

Ayo Akimolere (27:40)

That's good to talk about Barca this season so far. Paul, look far from the side that won, what, the 28th La Liga title last season. They don't seem to have that level of authority they did last season. Why do you think that is?

Paul Belous (27:54)

I think it's mostly an injury plague injury crisis, lack of individuals that are really key in the way that Flick wants to play. I'm thinking about Raphinha here, who is absolutely key for this high pressing. Then I also think that there's the fact that this is the second season and a lot of opposition have studied how Flick wants to play and they have plans for the game just to go against that. Flick needs to think what he does now because he has not shown any signs of having a plan B. Like the plan B is make plan I work. So let's see now how he operates after the classical defeat because now Barca have A situation that I don't think that they are going to be dominant in the near future because, I mean, next week they're not going to have Pedri available because he was sent off at the Classico. I don't envision them being really dominant in the near future, but they still have to pull the results out because they cannot lose any more points if they want to stand the chant in the title. Right. So that's a bit the situation that Flick has to do. I don't know if he's going to adapt, if he's going to do a plan B, what is he going to do? But yeah, that's the situation that bars have found themselves into now.

Andy Mitten (28:56)

I think Paul's right with the. The injuries. If you're missing Robert Levandowski, Lamin and Rafinha, well, missing three of the best forwards in the world and that would impact massively on. On any team. But also the point about second season, people starting to sush you a little bit. The first time I saw Barca against a top team playing this really high line was exactly a year ago. It was against Bayern Munich in the Champions League and I'm like, wow, whoa, whoa. Are they really risking this? And they risked it and I think they won. I think it was at 4:1. It was incredible. But coaches have wised up to it a little bit and then with Madrid, they've got a new coach in. Sunday was a huge win for Jabi Alonso because he's had victories. They were top of the league, but they've also been hammered by Atletico Madrid. That was his first real sort of statement. Victory gives him the cushion as well, but they're both fascinating to watch and the evolution of both and the players that are being left out and Barca do have Marcus Rashford's done well, Firmin Lopez has done well, but they're not to the level of the players who are missing.

Ayo Akimolere (30:05)

Just quickly on Rashford, Andy, it's been a really good start for him. Looks to be shown glimpses of his best for Barca. Did it help Barca that this was a player in need of redemption, A player that needed to prove himself, but also a player that wanted to play for Barcelona.

Andy Mitten (30:22)

Yeah, it was perfect for Barca because it wasn't working out for him at Manchester United or in Manchester. So you have. You had a vengeful footballer who probably realized it was his last shot at a top, top club. And what helped him was a coach who really believes in him because he didn't always have that at Manchester United, relative stability. Barca almost thinking, we're going to prove you wrong, we're going to get the best out of you better plays around him because Barcelona are a better team than Manchester United. And then for Marcus, that change of scene, you know the cliche about a change being as good as a break, he's living by the Mediterranean. It's a little bit different from from where he grew up. He's got new people around him. He's playing in a new league, which I also think suits him a lot more because he's playing for a much more attacking team, which suits him. He's playing for a team, getting a lot of the ball. It's all new to him. He's going to new stadiums for the first time. You know, he was the oldest player in Barcelona's starting lineup a week ago against Olympiacos and then he played in a first ever Classico. So he's come out of an unstable environment, a difficult one, and he's been part of that. You know, this isn't all on Manchester United. Some of this is on Marcus as well. But if you flip it the other way and you're confident and you're happy and you're playing well and you're scoring brilliant goals away in the Champions League at Newcastle United, suddenly life takes on a much more sunnier aspect.

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Podcast Host (33:32)

You'Re listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Aya Akamilere.

Ayo Akimolere (33:36)

Well, joining us now to talk about Real Madrid, we've got the Athletic Guillermo Rai. Sunday's victory took Real Madrid first five points clear at the top of La Liga Guillermo. A big win for Real Madrid but overshadowed by the scenes that we saw full time. And were you surprised by just how much Laminal's comments got to Real Madrid's players?

Guillermo Rai (33:57)

Yeah, indeed, because I think so far the relationship between Dani Carvajal and Laminal has been pretty good. One year ago when I was interviewing Carvajal during an international break, I remember Carvajal speaking fondly about La Minjamal. And these quotes from Carvajal sound a bit strange for Real Madrid fans because they indeed had this relationship and it was a different relationship because it's a senior player with a lot of experience and La Mija mali is just 18 years old. But as they won together the European Championship, they both share a great memory. Right? So it was a bit strange. Laminamal's quotes from the Kings League didn't help. It's a bit concerning, especially for the Spain national team because there is a World cup coming and it's important that they have a good relationship. So an interesting story to follow. It reminds me a little bit to the relationship that Real Madrid and Barcelona players share at the Mourinho time or when both teams were at probably at their peak, which probably makes sense because they are both again competing and in a good shape. So probably it's because of that as well.

Ayo Akimolere (35:12)

I want to talk about another player that's never far from the headlines is Vinicius Junior. He didn't look happy when he came off at halftime, and much of what we're reading is around the relationship he has with Xabi Alonso. Do we know about what went on there and what on earth his future looks like at Real Madrid?

Guillermo Rai (35:30)

Well, what we know for now is that the club is not planning on finding him. There were some reports suggesting that the club could take measures because of his attitude, but as of now what the club says is that they are not planning on doing anything and that they rely on Xabi Alonso, that they fully trust him, that he will take the best decision here and that Xabi Alonso is not thinking on taking a big, big decision on Beneath you for now is what we have heard and we have just published on the inside piece we do weekly. And it's another interesting story to follow because obviously the relationship between the coach and the Brazilian is restrained, I'd say from the start of the season, when he didn't play as started in Oviedo, I was there. And what we reported back in August is that Vinicius camp was angry obviously at the situation and this situation hasn't been solved. So let's see if in the future, in future games, Benitius keeps his role as a starter or Xavier Alonso decides anything bigger.

Ayo Akimolere (36:42)

Yeah. What about other people at Real Madrid, other players? Because you know, a new manager comes in, not everyone's going to be playing, right. Is that something Xabi Alonso is finding hard or finding tricky to deal with because you've got a whole team of young players and experienced players who want to be playing football?

Guillermo Rai (36:59)

Well, it is not easy. It's not an easy one. It's difficult to compare Carlo Ancelotti's spell to this one because Carlo was obviously closer to the to the players. But in some way I think that some things had to change and Xabi Alonso is taking these decisions. Some of them probably are controversial within the dressing room. Maybe other players have been favored. What I can tell you is that sooner than later, probably tomorrow Mario Cortegan Ami will publish something on this topic because it's an interesting one to follow for sure.

Ayo Akimolere (37:37)

How does this compare to Barca? Paul, I can't help but look at the lead that Madrid have built at the top of the table. Is there a feeling that this might not be Barcelona's year?

Paul Belous (37:47)

I mean, there's a temptation to think that now because if you see Barcelona, as we were discussing earlier, they are not at their best. But I think that the season is long, still a lot can happen. I don't see this Real Madrid side as a really dominant side as well. I think that they have flaws. And then like the differences between Barcelona and Real Madrid, both teams, I think that they have top players and it's always difficult to manage that because if you have 25 players and only 11 of them play, you can have people who is not pleased always in every region. But I have the feeling that at Barcelona the roles are, well, more accepted between the players. There are some players that are well aware of the role that they have to play in the team, that there's a sort of hierarchy set in there that I don't, I'm not sure. Seeing all the benitius scenes after the substitution at the Bernameo, that is the same case at the, at Real Madrid. So it's going to be a case of, yeah, seeing how it unfolds. Sometimes it's like football, this old funny thing because like the team where, yeah, you can guess that the dressing room is not as well established as the other one is the one that wins and yeah, got the five point lead and at the end what, what dictates the mood around the clubs is if the ball goes to the back of the net in their favor. So that's just as simple as that. But that's how I see things now. And I think that those are some of the issues that are going to have an impact in the future of the competition for sure.

Ayo Akimolere (39:17)

Well, before we go, Bellingham is looking more like himself over the past week with two match winning goals in two games. What do you think's changed?

Guillermo Rai (39:25)

Yeah, it's true that he was back before expected because he was expected to be back on October and he came back on September because he wanted to be back for El Derby against Atletico Madrid. And it was a sad story because he came back, but he wasn't at his best. The team struggled and some of the critics focus on Bellingham. But as far as I know, the coaching staff has always understood that Bellingham is a safe bet. He's unreplaceable. So there is not a real debate within the coaching staff about his figure. The thing is that he wasn't fully recovered. Now he is, and against Barcelona especially, he had the freedom to be in the middle. Camavinga was on the right wing, which I think helped Bellingham to play with. As I said, more freedom and less thinking on the defense. He's back at his best, which is great news for real because last time we have seen Jude Bellingham like that, Real Madrid have lifted a Champions League title in at Wembley. Right.

Ayo Akimolere (40:36)

Okay, let's leave you there, gents. Paul, Guillermo and also Andy, thank you so much for joining us. And also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

Podcast Host (40:47)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated clip club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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