Has Maresca proven Chelsea's doubters wrong?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast Summary

Title: Has Maresca Proven Chelsea's Doubters Wrong?
Host: The Athletic
Hosts Featured: Ayo Akinwolere, David Ornstein, Phil Hay, Adam Crafton, Matt Slater
Guests: Simon Johnson (Chelsea Correspondent), Thomas Hill, Lopez Manchero
Release Date: May 29, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Has Maresca Proven Chelsea's Doubters Wrong?", The Athletic FC Podcast delves into Chelsea's recent triumph and examines whether manager Enzo Maresca has silenced critics surrounding the club. Hosted by Ayo Akinwolere, the discussion features insights from Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson, alongside analysts Thomas Hill and Lopez Manchero.

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Match Analysis: Real Betis vs. Chelsea

The podcast opens with Simon Johnson recounting his experience following Chelsea to Vav in Poland for the Conference League final. He describes the vibrant atmosphere despite minor unsavory incidents, emphasizing the celebratory mood following Chelsea's victory.

Notable Quote:

"It wasn't one of those cautious finals. Right from the get-go, the two teams went at each other... a massive moment for the football club." — Simon Johnson [02:15]

Simon highlights Chelsea's dynamic performance, contrasting it with the cautious play typically expected in finals. He commends the team's ability to secure a decisive victory, signaling a positive shift under Maresca's leadership.

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Enzo Maresca’s Impact and Strategy

The discussion shifts to Enzo Maresca's managerial decisions that influenced the game's outcome. Simon attributes the turnaround in the second half to strategic changes, particularly the introduction of Reece James, which bolstered the team's performance.

Notable Quote:

"Once James came on, you felt like he injected his presence... it just lifted everyone." — Simon Johnson [04:14]

Simon explains that Maresca's adjustments, including addressing defender Malo Gusto's struggles, were pivotal. The introduction of Reece James not only strengthened the defense but also energized the squad, leading to a prolific second half.

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Player Performances: Cole Palmer, Jadon Sancho, Antony

The hosts praise young talents like Cole Palmer and Jadon Sancho for their significant contributions. Cole Palmer's dynamic play and creativity were instrumental in Chelsea's comeback, earning him accolades comparable to established stars.

Notable Quote:

"Palmer's two assists in five minutes... those two moments of magic really defined the game." — Noah Michaelson [06:19]

Jadon Sancho's performance is also scrutinized, with discussions on his potential future at the club. Despite his impressive tally of 10 assists and 5 goals, questions remain about Chelsea's commitment to securing his long-term presence.

Notable Quote:

"It's very 50-50 at this point in time whether Sancho stays or goes... but one thing isn't in doubt, he's enjoyed his time at Chelsea." — Raj Panjabi [16:21]

Antony's resurgence is highlighted as well, noting his vital role for Betis and the broader implications for his career.

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Betis Performance and Spanish Dominance in European Finals

Thomas Hill provides an analysis of Real Betis' performance, acknowledging their initial lead and subsequent collapse. The conversation extends to the broader context of Spanish clubs' prowess in European competitions.

Notable Quote:

"Since 2001, Spanish clubs have won each of the 23 European finals they've played in across all competitions." — Noah Michaelson [10:42]

Hill discusses Betis' surprise lead and the eventual defensive lapses that cost them the match. He also explores the tactical superiority often exhibited by Spanish teams, attributing it to their focus on coaching and player development.

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Future Implications for Chelsea: Squad Building and Champions League Qualification

The hosts examine how Chelsea's qualification for the Champions League and their Conference League victory impact their summer transfer plans. David Ornstein's insights suggest Chelsea will be more aggressive in the transfer market, leveraging their improved financial outlook.

Notable Quote:

"Chelsea have a much better idea of what the budget's going to look like... I expect Chelsea to be very active in that mini window." — Raj Panjabi [25:35]

The conversation touches on potential targets like Liam Delap and Morgan Rodgers, emphasizing Chelsea's intent to strengthen key positions ahead of the next season.

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Player Transfers: Sancho's Future and Potential Targets

The podcast delves into the uncertainties surrounding Jadon Sancho's future at Chelsea. While his on-field performance has been commendable, contractual negotiations and wage considerations play a significant role.

Notable Quote:

"Jadon Sancho will have to take a significant pay cut if he's to become a Chelsea player." — Raj Panjabi [17:10]

Additionally, the possibility of signing forwards like Liam Delap from Manchester United and Morgan Rodgers from Aston Villa is explored, highlighting Chelsea's strategic moves to secure top talent.

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on Chelsea's progress under Maresca, recognizing the strides made while acknowledging the challenges that lie ahead. The hosts express cautious optimism, noting that while Chelsea has alleviated some scrutiny, sustained success will be the true measure of Maresca's impact.

Notable Quote:

"They proved to themselves that they are making strides... but until they win the big prizes, they'll still be questioned." — Raj Panjabi [34:05]

The discussion underscores the importance of maintaining momentum and strategic planning as Chelsea prepares for the upcoming season and potential participation in the Club World Cup.

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Key Takeaways:

• Enzo Maresca has positively influenced Chelsea, leading to a Conference League victory and Champions League qualification.
• Young players like Cole Palmer and Jadon Sancho have been pivotal in Chelsea's recent success.
• Real Betis showcased resilience but ultimately fell short, maintaining Spanish dominance in European finals.
• Chelsea is poised to be active in the summer transfer market, targeting key players to bolster their squad.
• The future of players like Jadon Sancho remains uncertain, contingent on transfer negotiations and club strategies.

Notable Quotes Summary:

• Simon Johnson: "Once James came on, you felt like he injected his presence... it just lifted everyone." [04:14]
• Noah Michaelson: "Palmer's two assists in five minutes... those two moments of magic really defined the game." [06:19]
• Raj Panjabi: "It's very 50-50 at this point in time whether Sancho stays or goes... but one thing isn't in doubt, he's enjoyed his time at Chelsea." [16:21]
• Noah Michaelson: "Since 2001, Spanish clubs have won each of the 23 European finals they've played in across all competitions." [10:42]
• Raj Panjabi: "Jadon Sancho will have to take a significant pay cut if he's to become a Chelsea player." [17:10]

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from The Athletic FC Podcast episode, providing listeners with an in-depth understanding of Chelsea's current trajectory and future prospects under Enzo Maresca.

Transcript

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

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[Noah Michaelson]

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[Raj Panjabi]

And we're talking like legit credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios.

[Noah Michaelson]

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[Noah Michaelson]

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[Raj Panjabi]

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[Ayo Akinwale]

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[Noah Michaelson]

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleri.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Chelsea have completed the set.

[Noah Michaelson]

Their young squad have come of age. Chelsea have won a trophy and have Champions League football next season. So has Enzo Maresca proven the Deltas wrong? Here with us today we have our Chelsea correspondent, Simon Johnson, who is still out in Poland, as well as Thomas Hill, Lopez Manchero as well. Simon, before we get into the game on the pitch, tell us what it's been like following Chelsea all the way to Vav in Poland in the last 24 hours. I think I got that pronunciation right. I think.

[Raj Panjabi]

Yeah. Better than me. Yeah, I, I, I thought for a moment you're going to ask me what it's been like following them since the competition started.

[Noah Michaelson]

We don't need to go there.

[Raj Panjabi]

How long have you got? But no, it's, it's been great. Like the, the city's been great. I mean, yes, I know there's been some unsavory images and a couple of unsavory incidents, but without sounding too cliche, it's the minority. There's been a real party atmosphere here. It's a beautiful setting and I often sort of saw Chelsea and Raoul Betis mingling together and having a great, great time. But yeah, of course it's to the victors go the spoils and one, I'm pleased that we saw a good game. It wasn't one of those sort of cautious finals. Right from the get go, the two teams went at each other and of course it ended up also being a cliche of a tailored two halves. But clearly a massive night for Chelsea and a massive moment for the football club. There will be a lot of naysayers outside of Stamford Bridge that will understandably dismiss the quality of the competition, but I just think they've taken a significant step in their in inverted commas journey under this new ownership that have been there for three years and were coming under a lot of negative criticism from their own fan base, let alone from those outside. So it's, it's a huge sort of, I think a combination of celebration but also a sigh of relief that some of those, just some of those questions, I hasten to add, have been answered a little bit.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, let's quickly talk about the game because you know that first half was, how can I say, below par. And let's not forget this is a very young starting 11 as well. You know, how did they turn it around so convincingly? Because the team that came out in the second half was something different. I saw Cole Palmer did a, a postmatch interview for CBS and they asked what Maresca said and in true Cole Palmer fashion he went we're losing too many second balls and that we that we're playing in a final. I'm sure he said much more than that, but in true Cole Palmer style, he probably deciphered that and those are the messages he took from it.

[Raj Panjabi]

Yes, I, I as funny enough, I'm working on a piece which will hopefully be published later that that go into a little bit more detail of what Marissa said. Not that I'm making out that he came out with some amazing speech that turned, it was totally the reason why it turned around. I think essentially got the team wrong and as simple as that. I was very surprised. I know he said before that he was thinking making changes because of the close proximity of the Notting Forest game and the final. He's spoken before about Reece James questioning whether he can play more than one game a week, but how can you not have your or the guy that won the Champions League with Chelsea start in the game. And not just that, but Malo Gusto has struggled in the inverted right back role all season and Real Betis started great. They took full advantage of Gusto's struggles on the right hand side and once James came on you felt like he injected just his presence, but also just the way that he impacted the game straight away. It just lifted everyone. Also, the Chelsea supporters don't forget who were chanting for Rhys James in the first half when Cousteau was struggling. So I think that was a key part of it. I have to say that Cole Palmer and the wingers and Nicholas Jackson, even 15 minutes in the second half were still not having that much of an impact. And it was only when I posted this on my X account that things changed. Because within a minute, Cole Palmer decided to do his thing and set up that beautiful goal for Enzo Fernandez and then took over the final. And do what Cole Palmer only he can do, sort of thing. Do the things only he can do.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Well, I tell you that Noni Madueke was definitely a fan and here's what he had to say post match.

[Ayo Akinwale]

He's the one man, he's the truth. I feel like when we need him.

[Raj Panjabi]

To be there.

[Ayo Akinwale]

He'S there.

[Raj Panjabi]

Like a lot of us, he had.

[Ayo Akinwale]

A quiet first half, but then the way he springs into life, into life. Super happy for him. I'm super proud of him as well.

[Raj Panjabi]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

Palmer's two assists in five minutes. How important was his contribution? I don't know if it's. I'm gonna go as far as Joe Cole, who said that felt like a messy kind of esque, you know, I don't like that. I mean, that's just a very different circumstance. Firstly, you probably wouldn't see Messi playing in the Conference League, but it was those two moments of magic that really defined the game.

[Raj Panjabi]

I would love to have seen Lionel Mess against FC Noah in the group. What. What scoreline are we thinking given Chelsea's B team beat them eight nil? Yeah, look, Joe obviously got a little bit excited there, but I think the general point he was making was also, I think perhaps just his love of Cole when just playing when he's at his best anyway, or whatever the stage, whatever the game. And we've seen Cole Palmer do those things against better teams than Raul Betis. So that's. I think that's where he's coming from. But he just emphasized, didn't he, that he is Chelsea's best player. I think Moises Caicedo runs in pretty close. He's had a phenomenal 18 months and had another brilliant game. So unlike perhaps the attacking players, I thought Caicedo was good in the first half as well and really stamped his authority on it. But Cole Palmer's Cole Palmer, you know, stuffing the man of the match trophy down his shorts for his TV interview coming in in the, the post match press conference alongside Tosin and he actually walked out of the press conference without his trophy. If he got it, he left it behind. The guy, I find him quite refreshing the way he is. He's very unique in the way he handles himself in front of a camera or in front of the media. He doesn't say a lot but it can actually in some ways be more interesting than someone that a bit like me waffles on for minutes on end without saying very much at all.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, I think it's fair to say, isn't it Simon? He did his talking on the pitch is that cliche goes. But he was definitely the difference in that second half. I think definitely the man who made things tick for Chelsea after a first half where Isco I think for Betis had been the real standout player but he was kind of anonymous in the second half really. And yeah, Palmer kind of getting his revenge on a Spanish team maybe after that Euros final last year, who knows? Not quite the same stage, but know getting there.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Thomas, let's talk about Betis because you mentioned Isco there recent call up again to the Spanish national team, which is fantastic for him but you know, I was expecting the first half was what I wanted from Betis. You know, unfortunately a lot of wasted chances but you know, they could have made history, hopefully winning their first piece of European silverware. How do we feel about the performance? And I'm sure a lot of those Betis fans would have been very disappointed with their performance in the second half.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, I think it's easy to focus on the collapse and certainly that was pretty striking. Conceding four goals after what was it, the 65th minute. You're always going to criticize a team for doing that, but equally, look, it's, it's worlds apart in terms of the two financial outlooks of the club. I think Betis will have been surprised to have even taken the lead in the ninth minute. I mean you saw that in their, in their fans reaction. It was, it was a total surprise. This is a club that really pride themselves on their attitude even in defeat, but often kind of, I don't want to say celebrating defeat, but often taking pride even in defeat. There's this phrase they go on about, Vival Betis Manche Pierda, which kind of means long live Betis even if they lose. And here we had the reality of wow actually being a headed new European final on course for their first piece of European silverware. I think they won la Liga in 1935. They won the Copa del Rey three times, most recently in 2022. So it's not as if they don't know how to win. But equally, I think this was a great opportunity to strike back after their local rival Sevilla, have won the Europa League so many times. You know, make a bit of a statement of their own under. Under Manuel Pellegrini, and ultimately, under the lights in the second half, it just. It just didn't work out.

[Noah Michaelson]

That's a really good point, actually, because there is a bit of. A fair bit of Spanish dominance in European football, especially in finals. You know, since 2001, Spanish clubs have won each of the 23 European finals across the Champions League, Europa League and Conference League they'd played in. We were so close with Barca this year. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. But, I mean, and Real Madrid, Arsenal took them out. Those are the only things I'm holding on to as an Arsenal fan. But no real talk, though, that there's a real thing with Spanish clubs in these European tournaments, isn't there?

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, particularly in the finals. I mean, I think that stat is. Is extraordinary. I'm sure part of it comes down to luck, of what happened in those finals. Part of it comes down to the dominance of Real Madrid and Barcelona. I know we did a piece on it last year ahead of the Euros final, and that was one of the main reasons given. But also, I think Emory was. Was quoted in that piece as talking about Spanish club's methodology. Maybe greater. Greater focus on tactics, the way players are actually coached. I think probably a lot in large part does come down to coaching, but this always felt like a little bit of a mismatch off the pitch. And I think that's ultimately what. What ended up happening in the final itself.

[Noah Michaelson]

Simon, let's talk about Maresca. The Conference League is the cherry on the top after securing Champions League, of course. And if I'm honest with you, I don't think many people saw Chelsea, with the form they had this season, potentially qualifying for the Champions League. Now they've won a trophy as well. How would you describe his mood this week over the last 24 hours?

[Raj Panjabi]

Well, he didn't swear this time. There was no. No references to critics. He did sort of kind of bashfully say, oh, even after the games, he sort of said, oh, yeah, it was a bit of an outburst. Use that line again. And sort of. I think he kind of not regrets it, but kind of sort of realizes that he perhaps Went a bit too far. But I don't think it's just about this game. I think he's had a massive month to six weeks. When you consider he was under a lot of criticism from all quarters, perhaps no more so than the fan base. And everyone recognized that Chelsea's running for the, for the Champions League positions in the Premier League was the toughest. Very few said they were going to do it and I probably have to count myself as one of them. And in fact like a week ago, ahead of these two games, I had genuine concerns. Hence why I wrote a piece about Chelsea's dismal away form, that they would lose both games against Nottingham Forest and Real Betis and be back in the Conference League. And part of me was fearing it, I think for my own sanity. As much as it's been fun to cover this competition, anyone that's covered Chelsea or supports Chelsea, whatever used to sort of more glamorous games in Europe. Obviously you take what you can get. But it was like, okay, enough's enough. Let's, let's go back to the big boys table. And it's huge. That Bereska, from what I've been told, he has been really drumming home the message before these two games after the Forest game and sort of in the build up to this game, it's just pushing, pushing, pushing. You might sort of say that stating the obvious, but he wanted two wins out of two. It wasn't about, oh, we've qualified for the Champions League, it's okay if we lose the Conference League final now. Because I think he recognizes, as I said at the top, how significant this could be for the group. And when I asked him after the game in the post match press conference about how significant the last six weeks have been for his group going forward into next season, he talked about the steal. Now they found a way of winning ugly. For sure. We improve a lot since we start. We also start to win games in ugly way. That it's something with the young squad that you struggle to do that. But I think for instance Nottingham Forest.

[Noah Michaelson]

Game we won in, in a little bit naggly way we found the way.

[Raj Panjabi]

To win the game that was very, very important. When you sort of think of Chelsea and their pomp, we're talking Mourinho and so on. As good as they were, they had this ability of winning ugly. Now I'm not saying again that they're going to go on to win Champions leagues and Premier leagues next season, but it's a significant step if they are going to do that, they're a step closer than if they'd fallen short in either of their these two must win games.

[Noah Michaelson]

All right, before we move on, we want to hear from you. Check out the link in the description to give us your feedback on the show, what content you've enjoyed most, and also what you'd like us to do differently next season. Thanks for your continued support. Right Next, we'll look at the future of Jadon Sancho having come off the bench to score.

[Ayo Akinwale]

You're listening to the Athletic FCP podcast with IO Akinwaleere.

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michaelson]

Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're talking like legit credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around, superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios.

[Noah Michaelson]

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[Raj Panjabi]

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[Noah Michaelson]

Could they get another here Sancho Palmer in the box.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Sancho Ben 1.

[Noah Michaelson]

It's a glorious goal. Yes. Simon Jaden. Sancho. Wow. Come on. With his fifth goal of the season to make it 31 on on Wednesday night, the big question is do do Chelsea keep hold of this player? Dan Sheldon reported in April that Chelsea's obligation to buy him for 25 million pounds had been triggered, but that the move wasn't guaranteed. Where are we after this match?

[Raj Panjabi]

Well, this is something Maresca said that talks would be sort of happening, sort of within 2448 hours of the final and decisions would start to be made. Not just about, I think his future, but perhaps other futures as well, and other decisions over players. I don't think we should forget that Jadon Sancho also provided 10 assists. So when you sort of think in goal involvements, that's 15 from about 41 appearances, I think off the top of my head that I looked at earlier and that's on paper that looks like a really good return. Right. You sort of think, well, that's one in three games. That's pretty good. But at the same time, as Dan reported, I was sort of hearing very much the same. There was a real question mark whether Chelsea would trigger it. And of course me and Dave Launstein reported about there was this penalty fee set at 5 million. Now it's not actually a penalty fee as such. If Chelsea decides to take this option, it's actually the loan fee essentially is what it will be. And you have to say that that's pretty good business. Right? The other question mark into the whole Jadon Sancho scenario, it's not just a Chelsea decision. They have to agree a contract with Jadon Sancho. Now he is on huge money at Manchester United. So whilst the actual transfer fee of 20, 25 million isn't that much of a problem, football fans forget the cost of the wages as part of it. And Jadon Sancho will have to take a significant pay cut if he's to become a Chelsea player. So I think let's just wait and see at this point because Chelsea are short on the left hand side, they want a right foot winger, Mikhail Mudryk. We're still waiting to hear what's going on with the B sample. Provisionally banned since December. So they're a winger down there. I've been told all along that they will sign another right footed left winger this window. So it's definitely a target position. Tariq George has been promoted to the first team squad. Of course he loves playing there. So it's, I would say it's very 5050 at this point in time whether Sancho stays or goes. But one thing isn't in doubt. I think he's genuinely enjoyed his time at Chelsea. He's got a lot of friends in that dressing room. You could see with all the sort of post match images. If you go on social media now and see clips from the after party, if he does move on and there are clubs that are interested, inevitably including perhaps return to Germany, he won't regret his time at Chelsea. It's been a good season for him as an individual to perhaps put some of the negativity from his time at Manchester United behind him.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, Thomas. Another Manchester United player to talk about on the other side is obviously Antony, looking like he's having the time of his life. Maybe not in the final of the Europa Conference League necessarily, but it looks like he's found some form there. Firstly, were you disappointed by. Obviously performance wise. But also secondly, do Betis have an opportunity to keep hold of him?

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, I think it was a really, really disappointing performance, IO particularly given everything he's produced in the second half of the season. I mean, it's no stretch to say he has been one of one of the best players in La Liga this season, having only joined in January. And, you know, he's backed that up with goals and assists. Was crucial in taking Betis this far. Our colleague Dermot Corrigan wrote a really nice piece about his time at Betis and how he feels kind of indebted to the club. You know, you've got players like Isco talking about having to crowdfund a potential deal to keep him next season. Their legendary player Joaquin as well, saying that they'd have to kidnap him. So, you know, there's clearly a desire from Betis to keep him. Whether that can actually happen, I think it's fair to say bigger clubs than Betis will probably be looking at him after this season. That piece by Dermot mentioned that United weren't opposed to another loan move, but that if they were looking to move him on, there would likely be a strong market for him. So I'm sure they would know as well that he's going to attract kind of admiring glances from elsewhere. It seems like they've been a good fit, but Betis, like any other La Liga side, may struggle to. To get that deal done. The financials involved, of course, whatever happens, it's. It's been a pretty remarkable second half of the season for him.

[Noah Michaelson]

Something just dawned on me in terms of the types of players at Betis right now. We took a look at Mark Bartra. You know, you look at Pablo Fournels, La Celso, Isco. I'm wondering if Betis even Bellerin to a certain degree, actually. I wonder if Betis has become this sort of rehabilitation sort of spot for players who are slightly disillusioned with where they were. Obviously Bartra left Dortmund after that bus attack, but somewhere new, somewhere fresh to really bed in a culture that's actually welcoming and loving and all that kind of stuff.

[Ayo Akinwale]

There's definitely an emotional connection there. And exactly what we were talking about earlier. I think about that Betis mantra about their attitude, even in Losing kind of means that they will back any new players who come in and show a willingness to adapt to the club, to really play for the badge and play for the fans as well. Isco is a great example. As you say, I owe that Spain call up. Fully deserved, when actually even a couple of years ago, you might have thought he wasn't the kind of player who fits into the elite of modern football so nicely anymore. But it's also true of a lot of clubs in La Liga giving a second chance to players who maybe don't succeed initially in the Premier League. I mean, you look at the top scoring standings for La Liga this season. Alexander Solo 4th, Iose Perez for Villarreal, 5th. Those aren't players who lit up the Premier League. And it definitely always annoys me when I hear a player dismissed essentially because of his lack of success in England. The reality is there's, there's so many other European leagues out there where either the pace, the style, rhythm is different. That means that they can, they can succeed in Spain. And, you know, I think, I think it says a lot about that. Another great piece by our colleague Tim Spears on that this week about, you know, Damian, Mukhatarian, Fitinha, all players who will start in the Champions League final on Saturday and didn't light up the Premier League. It just goes to show, you know, English football isn't, isn't necessarily everything. That's my rant over as Spanish football editor.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love it. I love it. Keep it coming, Thomas. Right, next we'll look deeper into Chelsea's summer plans with a Club World cup on the horizon.

[Ayo Akinwale]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accumularo.

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michaelson]

Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.

[Raj Panjabi]

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[Noah Michaelson]

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[Ayo Akinwale]

This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Aguilera.

[Noah Michaelson]

On Monday, over on our Chelsea podcast, straight outta Cobham, Liam Toomey outlined the impact qualifying for the Champions League could have on their summer business. Let's hear what he had to say.

[Raj Panjabi]

And now I would expect Chelsea to be very active and aggressive. Now that they know exactly where they're going to be next season. They have a much better idea of what the budget's going to look like, although of course it can still get better if they go deep into the Club World Cup. They have a baseline now with the Champions League revenue that allows them to go out there with some degree of certainty. Of course they will have been having these conversations already, but now those conversations can be advanced and I would expect in early June. I do expect Chelsea to be very active in that mini window and trying to get a couple of deals done before the Club World cup because we know, we've known for a long time that they are determined to take this competition very, very seriously. They want to try and win it.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, active and aggressive in early June, as David Ornstein has reported today on the Athletic Chelsea. I mean, this is interesting news for Chelsea and also Manchester United to a certain degree. Simon, Chelsea want Liam de Lapp and De Lapp wants Chelsea. What do you know on that story?

[Raj Panjabi]

Well, me and David, we wrote about Chelsea wanting Liam delap before Christmas and he's been very much front and center, rather appropriately given where he plays. In Chelsea's thinking now they face stiff competition for Manchester United. But what has happened over the last week is a compare and contrast, right? You know, United lose the Europa League final. No European football. All the noises that you hear about Liam Delap was one of the things he wants is European football. As any top player who wants to prove themselves at the highest level, what have Chelsea done? Well, they've qualified for the Champions League, and on top of that, they've gone and proved that they can win silverware as well. You can't underestimate what image the images of last night do, not just for Liam Delap, but for a lot of players looking at going, oh, I want a bit of that. Chelsea seem to be going places. Maybe I could be a Cole Palmer. Chelsea have wanted a striker that has been the main priority for a long, long time. And as I said, Liam Delap has been a real, real big target for them for many, many months now. Don't forget, there's a very strong Manchester City connection at Chelsea Football Club, where Liam Delap was in the academy. You've got Enzo Maresca, you've got Joe Shields, you've got also perhaps some of the players he may have had a relationship with there as well. So you can understand why it would be a very tempting move for Liam to make. And as Liam points out, Chelsea want to get business done early. I mean, I've been told they actually want pretty much the whole squad to be settled at the Club World cup, because why not only do they want to win it, as Liam says, but this is also their preseason, as crazy as that sounds. Because of course, what happens is if Chelsea go deep into the competition, you're talking being out in America to mid May, they have to mid May, mid July. Sorry. And then, of course, they have to give the squad weeks off and then there'll be a very short sort of time for a kick about before the Premier League starts. So. So that's why this pre season, getting the squad together, the nucleus, the squad they're going to take into next season together, is so important to Chelsea. So, yes, of course they want to get to that done over the line, nice and early.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Thomas, very quickly, do you think this is the, the importance of the Champions League? Because I was even thinking about a team like spurs getting to the Champions League in terms of summer activity for any team. You know, we've almost seen a player pivot to Chelsea because players are hungry, players are ambitious, they want to play at the top level. And Champions League football does qualify you for that.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, it makes a massive difference, doesn't it? It makes any club more appealing to, to a player to, to. To have made it into the Champions League. And I think that's, that's clearly what's happened here. I'm even thinking of Betis getting into the Europa League this season through their league placing. That really matters, particularly to the Spanish clubs. It is, you know, it's a bit of a boon which, you know, can mark them out against European rivals. With the caveat, obviously, that, you know, there's always the financial gap between the two leagues.

[Noah Michaelson]

Simon On Monday's podcast, we spoke about Aston Villa and them failing to qualify for the Champions League. Liam Toomey also floated the idea that Morgan Rodgers could be of interest to Chelsea. Is he a solid target?

[Raj Panjabi]

They certainly like him, but this is not a new development. It's not like they've watched him play for Aston Villa and go, oh, he's all right, that fella. They were actually quite interested in him when he was at Middlesbrough and before he joined Aston Villa. And of course, again, there's this Manchester City connection that he's known, but he's gone on and kicked some, kicked on to another level at Aston Villa. Now he's. He's not going to be cheap, obviously. Yes, Aston Villa, we. We don't quite know what they're going to do on the PSR front, but that doesn't mean that they're suddenly going to say, right, well, he's yours for a tenner. You might need to add a few more zeros to that number. So the way it was described to me the other day was that it may be something that's not more of the immediate buy, like Aline Delap, but something that perhaps will be later in the window if they can do the deal. So there's definitely interest there, that is for sure. People might sort of question, well, where would he fit in? You've got Cole Palmer, of course. They both share the same goal celebration. That'll be interesting, wouldn't it? Imagine those two both getting on the score sheet or something. It's like I'm trying to describe it.

[Noah Michaelson]

Double cold shoulder. Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi]

Yeah. But, you know, Chelsea are, well, sort of stopped in. In that department. You wouldn't sort of, sort of see him as a particular. You could play out wide, but you wouldn't sort of see him as a natural. It seems to me like he likes to. To come inside where Cole is and of course, William Estebau likes that as well. So. But yeah, I think with Chelsea, there's an opportunity to sign a top player, just as they did with Dean Hoisen. They went. They went in for him because whilst the need for a center back wasn't paramount, they just went, this is too good an opportunity not to explore And I think the same will apply to Morgan Rogers.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, for sure. What do you make of Chelsea and how they've built their squad, Thomas, from an outside perspective with such a focus on youth? Because I think in that first half you probably understand after the energy that went into that Nottingham Forest game and then coming into this, how maybe not being able to control those energies or being a bit tired might have meant they played quite badly in that first half and weren't quite up to it.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, I mean, the difference in those two halves was, was pretty stark, wasn't it? But then when that young group of players kind of suddenly all gelled in the second half, you really saw, I think, the, the makings, at least from a neutral perspective. Obviously some will know more of, of that kind of project. I think it's the flip side of what we've been talking about last summer, right, about signing so many players at once and having so many players. Well, now it looks like you look at that starting 11 and there's lots of players there who haven't even reached the prime yet of their careers. And that's a really exciting prospect, I'm sure for Chelsea fans. There was also that stat, wasn't there, about how it was only the second time in a UEFA final that a team had started without any player aged 27 or over. And again, I think for fans that is really exciting. You want those young players who, who have this huge potential ahead of them. And yeah, it's an exciting time to be a Chelsea fan, I'm sure.

[Noah Michaelson]

Was that a coming of age moment for Chelsea, Simon?

[Raj Panjabi]

I think they think that, I mean, there's still a lot for them to prove and actually the club, I think, acknowledged that there's still a lot of work to do to go on to the next level. But as I sort of already intimated, I think the combination of the Premier League running and then to add a trophy into the cabinet as well, I just think they proved to themselves that actually they, they are making strides, they are a team on the up, that some of the negativity surrounding them has to be lifted off their shoulders. But of course, this is Chelsea, right? You know, like they lose a couple of games early on next season, it'll be Maresca out, you'll be on, you'll be getting me on here to talk about where it's all going.

[Noah Michaelson]

We're back to the doom and gloom days.

[Raj Panjabi]

Yeah, I mean, do you want to book it now? You know, the slot August 30th and I mean, also don't forget that the penalty for the Club World cup is going to have a huge impact. I think there is a genuine concern that, you know, player fatigue or as Maresca said, we could get more injuries next season. So I don't think that should be underestimated. But when you think they've got players like Esteban William coming in, you know, he's the exciting talent from Brazil. Chelsea do look like people sort of said there is no plan. They've been accused of having no plan. Right. Well, now people are starting to see actually there may be something in this. And of course, the best is still to come because they haven't invested over a billion pounds in players to win conference leagues and to finish fourth. They want the big prizes. So until they do that, they'll still be questioned, quite rightly so. But some of the scrutiny for now at least, has been taken away.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. As we're talking about Club World Cup, Thomas, and before we wrap up, you know, Liam says this is a competition that Chelsea do want to win, but also there are two, seems like Real Madrid in there who also want to win that competition. Real Madrid surely would be favorites coming into this. A team like Chelsea vs Real Madrid and what they've got to offer. Surely it's a bit of a mismatch.

[Ayo Akinwale]

No, I think. Oh, I don't. I don't know. You put me on the spot there. Whether it's a mismatch or not, Certainly, certainly Madrid's, you know, Madrid's rebuilding in the, in the last couple of weeks, switching coaches. You've got Xavi Alonso in now, Dean Howson coming in.

[Noah Michaelson]

Good point.

[Ayo Akinwale]

You know, let's. Let's see whether they could, could bring forward a deal for Trent, Alexander, Arnold. I think that all points to. Well, it points to the future for Madrid, but they're definitely not taking this competition lightly at all. I mean, it's $125 million that they stand to win. That's not an insignificant amount even for a club of Madrid's size. That's pretty huge. And it's also a competition in which their great rivals, Barcelona aren't involved in. So again, another chance to maybe banish the, the memories of this last season where they, they finished without any of the three major trophies and Ancelotti kind of leaves. Leaves through the back door. It will be seen as a real opportunity for them to, to state their claim and to. To really bet in this, this new group of signings and, and this new coach.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, for sure. Right, gents, I really appreciate your time and thanks for joining us. Congratulations to Chelsea. Perhaps only just perhaps, we're seeing the fruit to their very expensive labor. Simon Thomas thanks for your back tomorrow as we build up to Saturday's Champions League final.

[Ayo Akinwale]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.

[Noah Michaelson]

The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aidee Morehead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

[Ayo Akinwale]

The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

[Raj Panjabi]

The Athletic FC Product.

[Noah Michaelson]

Podcast Network.

[Raj Panjabi]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

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Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.

[Raj Panjabi]

And we're talking like legit credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around.

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Superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Raj Panjabi]

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