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- [00:01]
Ayo Akimolere
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY 467-369 In New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico for first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go?
- [01:16]
Colin Miller
Wish I would stop Wish I would stop thinking so much. Did I talk too much?
- [01:23]
Ayo Akimolere
Take a breath, you're not alone.
- [01:26]
Colin Miller
Let's talk about what's going on. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals and online therapy makes it convenient. See if it's for you.
- [01:35]
Guillermo Ray
Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your.
- [01:40]
Ayo Akimolere
First month of online therapy and let life feel better.
- [01:44]
Colin Miller
I can't believe they're having a gender reveal for their dog. No, no, no. This is a breed reveal.
- [01:49]
Host/Moderator
Oh.
- [01:50]
Colin Miller
So yeah, they're finding out the breed of the puppy they're rescuing so they.
- [01:54]
Ayo Akimolere
Could just be spending all their money.
- [01:55]
Colin Miller
On like pet insurance.
- [01:56]
Ayo Akimolere
Instead, we got lemonade for Roscoe and it covered vaccines, microchipping.
- [02:00]
Host/Moderator
We saved 90% on vet bills.
- [02:03]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh, here we go.
- [02:06]
Colin Miller
What do you think beige confetti means?
- [02:09]
Ayo Akimolere
I don't know that we'll never get this Saturday back. Get a quote for any breed@lemonade.com Peter the Athletic FC.
- [02:22]
Host/Moderator
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Real Madrid are back winning in the Champions League. Mbappe Shaun Bright, but Vinicius was benched once again. So why are these two galacticos on such different paths right now? All right, with us for this one, we have our Madrid writer, Guillermo Ray. We've also got Colin Miller in the studio as well. Guy, let's start with you. Narrow 21 win for Madrid after Dani Carvajal was sent off. I mean, it's a bizarre second half personally, but, you know, not an easy night for them, but they got the job done in the end.
- [02:59]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, it's true. It wasn't an easy night for Xavier Alonso. It was his debut at the Bernabeu for a Champions League night. And we all know Dani Carvajal's temper. I don't know if you guys remember the scene with Musiala in the Euros. We all know that he's a Spaniard, a real Spaniard, So sometimes he loses.
- [03:22]
Host/Moderator
He's got a hot streak.
- [03:23]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, he loses his temper. Talking to his camp yesterday at night, he said that it was obvious that it was a red card and they regretted the action. They know that it was a fail. But after he was sent off, I think Real managed the situation really well. I think Mbappe is at his best moment right now, I will say, since he joined Real Madrid, I think he. He really helped the team. Now he takes all the penalties, which I think is also a good decision from Alonso, because he is now more confident. I feel that, and I think everyone feels that. And even though it was a difficult night, they were capable of coming back as always, and getting the three points. The first three points.
- [04:13]
Host/Moderator
Yeah. Let's talk about Mbappe.
- [04:15]
Guillermo Ray
Colin.
- [04:15]
Host/Moderator
50Th goal for real Madrid with that penalty. I don't know what you thought about the penalty itself. Maybe they were a bit lucky, but as Guillermo is sort of an insinuating there, it feels like he's becoming a bit of a leader for Real Madrid right now.
- [04:30]
Colin Miller
Yeah, exactly. And obviously when Kylian Mbappe joined Real Madrid and there was so much fanfare around that, and it felt like that was inevitable. I was always going to happen to be such a buildup and it almost. It's such a strange thing to say that he scored 44 goals in his debut season and it felt like an underwhelming season. Obviously, that's because Real Madrid didn't win anything and Then maybe people were starting to think, is that linked to Mbappe's arrival? Has that offset the balance of the side a little bit? But obviously there were other issues for Madrid too and I think, I think was right. I think Mbappe right now is, is not a player that Real Madrid thought they had signed initially in terms of reaching his, his top form. I think being the best striker in the world in terms of his all around gameplay and what he can do. But he's also now the guy at mad right. He's now starting as the number nine. Guillermo's mentioned, he's now taken penalties, he's not taking responsibility. But also Mbappe is now the one undisputed starter in this Real Madrid attacking unit because even last night we saw Vinicius didn't start because Rodrygo started ahead of him on the left. Bellingham's been out injured, Narda Gullers been playing in that number 10 role. And there's maybe a question mark of who's going to be in that position long term now because they're just such fantastic talents. And also on the right hand side of attack as well, where Rodrigo had been before, you've not got Marcenciano playing there, you've got Brian Diaz coming in there and Jabby Alonso has retreated quite a bit. But what he has made clear is that Mbappe is the central striker. He is the guy who's going to be taking that responsibility. And Scammer said as well, you can see that has given Mbappe maybe not, maybe not the confidence. I don't think that that was ever an issue, but more the sense of he, he's the leader in this team and he can take that responsibility. And if Real Madrid are going to be successful this season, Kylian Mbappe is going to be a massive, massive part of that. So I think that's one of the really interesting things of the early weeks of Xabi Alonso this season anyway. It's just how quickly he has sort of gotten Mbappe's best version out of him and just how high my self belief he has. I think that takes a lot of his teammates on board with him too. So yeah, I think there's a lot to be positive about from Real Madrid. Obviously still quite early days.
- [06:28]
Host/Moderator
This was the first impression, I guess of Xabi Alonso's Real Madrid in the Champions League in particular. How do you compare it to Ancelotti's Madrid?
- [06:38]
Colin Miller
Yeah, it's really interesting because I think, I think quite a lot of people expected it to be these sort of really obvious Mass changes when Alonso in and there'd be a real shift in the style of play. And I think, I think that's true in a way, but it's not, it's not quite as obvious on the eye. So for instance, the, the formation, I think Xabi Alonso kind of likes his 4231 formation of maybe, maybe sometimes it's 433 and that's very similar to the, the Ancelotti and how he lined up. I think the difference is it's not a revolution of what's going on, it's more of an evolution in terms of what the players that he's brought in, the style of play he wants to implement a bit different. I think you can see that he is a more systems driven coach and by that I mean I think he's got a clearer idea of what he wants his players to be doing in terms of being in a compact unit, moving across the pitch as one. And obviously that the main kind of knock on effect of that is on the forwards and their ability to be disciplined, to be able to track back and to be part of that team and to move backwards and forwards at that time. And that, that is quite a big demand of players like Mbappe and like Vinicius because essentially they have been four years across different teams given essentially an attacking freedom to be like, you're the best players in the world, just go out and show it. But neither is that little bit extra. And there is, has always been this question I think since Mbappe joined is how do you fit all these guys in the one attack? Because we know Mbappe, Vinicius and Rodrigo two have a very similar attack and profile. So there had to be a little bit of compromise there. But I think that the balance that has been found at the moment seems to be working, albeit it kind of feels like game to game. There's, there are those tweaks, but yeah, it's not overt. But I think Alonso has, has brought in a bit more of that discipline in this, into this style of play.
- [08:18]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, Guy. Another piece to the Madrid jigsaw is Mastantuano, the 18 year old Argentinian. I mean he started over Benicius Junior yesterday in the Champions League. What have you made of his Real Madrid time so far?
- [08:33]
Guillermo Ray
Well, I think it's impressive the fact that the club has really bet on him from the start. Like he trained just for four days and he played half an hour for the first game against Osasuna. So it was pretty clear for both fans and I Think Alonso that it was the club's bet. It was the most expensive signing this summer, up to 63 million euros, so almost $70 million. I think he's only 18 years old, but when you see him and you watch a performance like he did yesterday, you feel that it's a different character, a different player, I think is different to Ardagula even that they, they have like similarities as midfielders, creative midfielders, offensive midfielders. But he can play from their right wing, which is great for real because they were really looking for a player who can start from, from the right. And yesterday I think it wasn't his, his best performance. So I'm sure that he will get better with the time, with more games and more performances. But it was obvious that he created like, I think that Olympic Marcel felt unbalanced when he touched the ball. There were two or three actions in which you could really feel that he could do whatever he wanted. He almost scored in the first half. I think he was very vertical, which is also great for a midfielder at real because when you have the ball, you really need to be electric. You really need to be quick. Indeed, some Real Madrid fans who compare Franco Mastantuno to Angel Di Maria. Angel Di Maria, I think it was a different player. He was more offensive. He was more a winger than an offensive midfielder. But they are both Argentinians, they have magic in their feet. And it's obvious that the comparisons will be rising once we see playing for real. It's obvious, yeah.
- [10:39]
Host/Moderator
Have you seen the magic in ma feet, Colin?
- [10:41]
Colin Miller
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, obviously the, the adaptation process from South American football to European football isn't, isn't always the easiest, but he has, it does seem like a relatively smooth transition. And one of the things I would pick up on with, with Guillermo's point is that this was, this was a Xabi Alonso signing in the sense that Real Madrid for years and years have been. They've made club signings, right. So someone like Trent Alexander was somebody who they had tracked for 12. They knew his contractual situation and he was a club signing. And there's. I think there's more than just. They're a very good player, obviously, but there's more to it than that in terms of, in terms of all the, the outside interest of Madrid too. But I think when you look at the semi, you look at Marcencrano, you look at Dean Hoisen, you look at Carreras, I think those are very coach driven appointments and I think that's very interesting in that Real Madrid haven't really been a club who have, who have had that kind of had a coach's ideology kind of implemented in them like this. And I think that's what makes this Xabi Alonso era so interesting is that there has been, there has been a compromise in that sense. And Xabi Alonso is a guy who I think Madrid have gone full in on in terms of what he, what his ideas are, what he's bringing to the club. And it is interesting as well how that sort of balance in that attack, because we all know Vinicius, Mbappe, Jude Bellingham, these are all guys who love to just go forward and to try to try to get goals and they maybe aren't quite as tactically disciplined as somebody who would be on that right side. And obviously Rodrigo's been played there quite a lot in the past. Brahim Diaz can play there. Even Valverde could move into that position with the energy he brings. So I think it is interesting that from a tactical point of view, he's obviously somebody who is already very, very important to this team.
- [12:13]
Host/Moderator
Okay, Guy, I just want to talk about Trent Alexander Arnold. So much has been made about the departing from Liverpool to Real Madrid and how Real Madrid went around that business. But it didn't last that long in yesterday's match. And it looks like it could be a little lengthy spell for him on the sidelines.
- [12:28]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, I think we will have to wait for at least 5, 6 weeks to see him back to the, to the squad, to the team. Let's see if he ends up playing for real when they play at Anfield, which will be greatest story for us. But it's obvious that now he will be sidelined for some weeks. It's pretty serious if we talk about muscular injuries. And it was, I think something that. It wasn't part of the plan. Obviously it was, I think in the third minute. So obviously is not related to, I will say like the workload because he didn't play for England. He was rested. He had the chance to train with the rest of his teammates for the last two weeks, like normally. And yeah, I think it's an important blow for, for Xavi, for Xavi Alonso because obviously Dani Carvajal has come back. He's again, I will say, at his best, even though he has suffered one season ago the acl, the anterior accuracy ligament injury. But he was playing really nice. It was good news, but he really needs to rest. It was important to rotate and I think we will have to see if Dani Carvajal is able to play like five six games in a row. If we take into account that it will be every three days. It's a bit risky for for a player who has just come back from an important injury, right? But now that Colin was talking about Xabi Alonso's decisions and you know, involvement in the latest signings, it's interesting because I do feel that with Trent Alexander Arnold it wasn't the case, obviously, because as we reported here at the Athletic, the signing or the deal was almost agreed before Xabi Alonso agreed to join Real Madrid. With Carreras or Mastantono or Housen, even Houston Alonso did have an involvement because he called them before they signed for Real. Alonso was able to explain them the project, but with Alexander Arnold it wasn't the case. It's a club's bet. It was seen as a really good opportunity in the transfer market because he's a top star player. But we will have to wait for for at least to check if he's able to recover. Yeah.
- [14:51]
Host/Moderator
Okay, well let's move on gents, because let's talk about the battle for Madrid's number one star. Is it Benicius or Mbappe?
- [15:03]
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- [17:50]
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- [19:01]
Host/Moderator
Chances running out, but here's Mbappe.
- [19:05]
Colin Miller
They are in front.
- [19:06]
Ayo Akimolere
It's two goals for Mbappe. It's 50 for Mbappe. A first Real Madrid milestone.
- [19:13]
Host/Moderator
Well, let's talk about Mbappe versus Vinicius Junior, because this time last year we were talking about Vinicius being a nominee and the favorite to win the Ballon d'. Or. This was also the year he scored the win in the Champions League final when Madrid beat Dortmund. Meanwhile, Mbappe had just arrived at Madrid and was trying to bed himself in. Is it too early to say who's emerging? Is that their big star? Because it's a problem many teams would love to have.
- [19:38]
Colin Miller
Colin yeah, it certainly is. And I think when we talk about even Vinicius Jr. And he has been out of form in this calendar year, there's no doubt about it, he still does have a goal return and he still has an ability to provide match winning moments and assists and things like that. I think the major issue, and this isn't anything new, but the major issue is a stylistic one and that Mbapp, Vinicius, and we've spoken about Rodrigo as well, are very similar players in terms of the positions of the pitch they like to operate. And Mbappe, whenever he was playing before with PSG and he had been playing as that sort of central striker when they still had Neymar and Lionel Messi. And he said, actually I much prefer playing for France because I can work off Olivier Giroud as a sort of target man, as a number nine and that allows me to come in from the left and, and that he, he just said that gets the best out of what I can do. This, this is what I enjoy doing the most. But now he is being deployed as he is the number nine striker and he does seem to be thriving it so in that, that to me is really interesting, but it is a case of they needed, they needed to overcome that issue. It's also very tempting for us to overstate how big an issue it is because Madrid scored a lot of goals last season. That wasn't really the issue. The issue was Madrid couldn't control games in the way that they would have done in the past. Obviously you had Tony Kroos retiring You had Luka Modric going into the sort of final spell of his career at the club and they haven't really been able to replace that profile of midfielder. And I think that then creates a disconnect with those forward players. So whilst we can say, yes, of course they operate in the same positions and that's an issue in itself for a long. So I think the problems run a little bit deeper. So I think fixing the midfield issues in which the profile of. Obviously we've just talked about some of the new signings in terms of ball progression and things like that, and tactical, tactical discipline, I think that has improved and that should be able to mean that players like Vinicius and Mbappe can play in the same team in a more coherent manner. And I think we will see that this season. But again, there's just so much attack and talent in this team, isn't there, that if somebody like Vinicius didn't start against Marseille, that's not to say he's. He's not going to be starting in the weeks going ahead, but there's just so many options available that maybe, maybe Alonso thinks that this is the perfect game to sort of maybe rotate and just to see if something else is a little bit more effective against this sort of opposition who play a really high line, who are very aggressive and that's not necessarily what they will get in La Liga. So, yeah, it is a case of Vinicius needs to refine his form. Obviously there's a sort of ongoing contractual situation as well with him.
- [21:58]
Host/Moderator
2027, I think it's not back up or something like that.
- [22:00]
Colin Miller
Yeah, yeah. And this, this has been. It almost feels like Madrid have. And Guillermo would be able to explain this much better than me, but Madrid have almost been briefing him, look, you know, we will sort this, but we' not going to do it now. And also almost by. By saying that that kind of feeds into kind of narrative that what is going on. Why. Why can't this just be sorted on? Why can't we put this rumor to bed? I mean, like, obviously Vinicius is, is. Is an incredible player even when he's not inform, as we said. So it's going to be really interesting to see going forward, but I don't think necessarily you can't have these players in the same team. It's all, it's all about finding the, the. The tactical balance and getting the right players in behind. And I think they have taken quite a big step certainly in the past few months over summer.
- [22:40]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, Guillermo, what's going on with like it was a summer where we were talking about whether or not Rodrigo was going to carry on at Real Madrid. Now we're saying perhaps Vinicius Jr might not have a future at Real Madrid.
- [22:52]
Guillermo Ray
Who knows his contract runs out in 2027, so he's not so so far. So I think that taking into account how Real Madrid executives operate, the normal thing will be to see the player renewed before the next transfer window, summer transfer window. So I will say before June 2026, before the world cup, we should see in a normal situation Vinicius renewing his contract with Real. But the thing is that as far as we know, as far as Mario Cortegana, who has followed closely the case reported, the thing is that it's now stuck like the negotiations haven't developed it. There have been for months reports in Spain probably coming from the club itself saying that it was close, he was close to renew. But we didn't get at the Athletic the confirmation that it was going to happen and that it was going to happen soon or it was really close. So I think that is obviously part of this story. Like okay, now Vinicius has changed completely. I will say his role, I will say that this is a revolution because he was almost. He was the favorite to win to leave the Ballon d' Oro last season and now he's not. I wouldn't say that he's a substitute or considered as a substitute, but he's not a real, real starter anymore. He has been on the bench in the last two of the last five games. So we could consider that Alonso have doubts regarding his figure and obviously it's part of the situation with the club is all related. I think that if you are the club's vet and we have doubts witnessed that with Mastantueno, if they really bet on you, you play from the start, even that you are an 18 year old kid. You really feel the confidence. And I think it will be really interesting. Apart from obviously watching closely what is going on with the negotiation and with the tolls. What's benitius response? Because as of now, what we have seen and what we know is that when he didn't play from the start against Sabiedo, his count was really annoyed and they didn't know that it was going to happen. So it was unplanned. It was something that take them by surprise. It's obvious he's top players, he wants to play every game. But let's see how he responds to Alonso's decisions because I know for Satan that he will try to do his best, but maybe their relationship gets frozen or is now frozen, who knows? I don't have this insight, but I'm sure that there will be some tension. It's another leader of the team, probably. Now, as you were and Colin were saying, Mbappe has emerged as the big leader because of his goals, because of his latest performances, because of his adaptation. But Benitius was considered another leader. And part of the good atmosphere that Real Madrid have during the Enceladus stage was partly because of Vinicius and because of Vinicius performances. So it's good to follow a good line to follow, obviously.
- [26:07]
Host/Moderator
Okay, I want to get more into Vinicius in just a second, but before that, let's hear from Jack Lang, who regularly covers Brazil for the Athletic. Let's find out how Benicius is getting on for the Brazilian national team in a crucial World cup year.
- [26:21]
Jack Lang
So Vinicius was left out of the Brazil squad for the games against Chile and Bolivia earlier this month. That was because he was suspended for the first one and the Bolivia game was at high altitude. And I think Carlo Ancelotti just thought it was a bit of a. Would have been a thankless task just calling him all the way to South America for a trip up a mountain, essentially. So, yeah, he missed that. Whether that was the right choice, not too sure, because obviously Ancelotti has not much time preparing Brazil and Vinicius is going to be one of his key players. I think the overall impression in Brazil is that this is someone who, whose star power hasn't quite transferred to level consistently yet. If you look at his, just his goal record, for example, that's not everything, but that is kind of a, an indication of a forward's influence. His goal record for Brazil is much, much weaker than it is for Real Madrid. That's had a lot of people questioning why that is over the years. During the Copa America a couple of summers ago, for example, that was one of the themes with Brazil, why Vini is unable to make his mark as often with the national team. I mean, that's tough question. It's a bit of a mess of a national team in general. So it's not a great platform for a free spirited, attacking player to make a mark on. But yeah, there is, I suppose, still a lingering feeling that this is someone who's best for Brazil is hopefully still to come.
- [27:59]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, that was Jack Lang on Vinicius junior within the Brazilian setup. And I was speaking to a friend actually in Brazil just To get a sense of how fans feel of Vinicius Jr. And he says obviously Vinicius is a big figure. He's done a lot for racial activism, he's done a lot for Brazilian football and he's well loved. But maybe as Jack said there not on the field, doesn't seem like that star power has translated. Obviously Ancelotti knows him him really well, Guillermo. But what's his relationship like with Xabi Alonso?
- [28:30]
Guillermo Ray
I think an active situation right now. It all depends on when you talk about the big players before was it depends on how many they are playing and if they really feel that the confidence from the coach, from the head coach. I do feel that with Alonso what has changed is that the unreplaceable roles no longer exist. Like he wanted to remark that in his first press conferences that everyone could be a starter is not entirely true because we have seen for example Tiboe to have every single game or even Alvaro Carreras who is really, I think he has been outstanding and is considered now one of the main starters. But he wanted to do this point of, okay, let's see with the forwards, because we have many options right now and I think he wanted to create a competition within the forwards, depending obviously on their performances. So obviously at this point we have seen only 2, 3 months of Xavier Alonso as Real Madrid coach. It's not easy to analyze relationships between players, but I wouldn't say like is the biggest bet from Alonso beneath your junior.
- [29:45]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, we've had a question in actually from one of the viewers on YouTube and thanks for your questions by the way. Keep sending them in. This one says, given the initial decision in the midst of the major rebuild Real Madrid are currently undergoing, what do you think the five year plan is in terms of transfer targets, change of style of play and future goals? Which names stand out for the new project the most? And also how could Madrid starting 11 look like in two or three years? Definitely keep those questions coming in. Great question. I'll go to you, Colin, first from what you've seen and then Elmo, from any insight you have, what you reckon in the next two or three years, what might that starting 11 look like?
- [30:26]
Colin Miller
Yeah, it's a really interesting question. Is it? And as we touched on earlier, this is. This is not being driven a lot more by. By a coach's demands essentially for what he wants. And it's less driven kind of by the big name status that players might have. So Real Madrid's transfer strategy in the past number of years has been very clear. It's been to target players going into the last 12, 18 months of the contract and then to see like can we get a deal done, which either means that we can sign them as a free transfer or that we can pay a rather sort of minimal transfer fee slightly ahead of time. And that was. That strategy hasn't always worked. It didn't work with Lenny Yoro last year when they tried to sign him from Lille, obviously into the final 12 months of his deal. But a lot of their, their deals have been done like that. Obviously Trent Alexander, Arnold, something like that. Anatonia Rudiger, Kalina Bape and and many others. I don't think that's going to be the strategy anymore. I think they're going to be looking at players who can be part of this system that Alonso wants. And if you look at the squad they have right now, I mean we spoken about the sort of embarrassment of riches in the attacking areas. There are other areas in that squad that do probably midfield is the obvious one, not so much in the Tchouameni, Valverde, Camavinga. Like these are all quality players, these are all top level players. But who's going to step into the role of what a Toni Kroos was to this team, what a Luka Modric was to this team. Players who can control games, control the tempo of the games, not just the possession and also be the player that kind of dictates to everyone else be a leader in that midfield. I think individually they're all very good profiles but they don't quite fit together. I think there needs to be a little bit more cohesion there, know who that player is going to be but I mean who can be their Pedri as force loan and all. If you look at all of Barcelona's midfielders, that's what they're. That's what they're targeted on, is being able to do that with the matches. Real Madrid don't quite have that yet, so I think that's one area, obviously the right back situation as well. And it sounds silly saying that having just signed Trent Alexander Arnold and maybe Trent Alexander Arnold was maybe a player who they saw as being able to maybe not be a midfielder but to move into those midfield positions. Obviously we know that the technical ability that he has, but the right back situation with Danny Carver has age with the fact that Trent Alexander Arnold maybe is at a stage of his career where he might be liable to picking up more muscular injuries, as we've seen, that might be a leap, but they do need more Cover there. It is difficult to say though, isn't it? In terms of getting that balance. It's going to be Xavier Alonso's decision. It's going to be coach driven decisions and I think it'll probably be a profile of player who isn't maybe quite as high status or might not quite bring that baggage that some others might have in the past. But again, that's going to be an institutional question for Madrid and whether they can evolve alongside their coach.
- [32:58]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, this is an interesting one. What that team might look like in two or three years, Guillermo. But also who might be the players they might be looking at. I was talking to some Arsenal fans today about William Saliba because you know, if. If it goes to plan as how Madrid's try to contact players, he's the kind of player that sits quite well in that last few years or last year of his contract that they might be able to go for.
- [33:20]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, that's, that's true. The question was great, by the way. So thanks for, for that. I'm sure that when we talk about clubs in general and plans, it's difficult to predict, right? We say okay, let's see, maybe in two, three years this club, I don't know signs this player or not, but we are confused. But with real as they have a long term plan, often they stick to the plan. It's easier for us to predict. It's obvious that with David Alaba who is 32 years old, with Antonio Rudiger who is also 32 years old, the defense is aging. So I think it is easy for us to say that there will be more reinforcements in the defense in the next few seasons. And obviously William Saliba is. I think we reported that he was one of real madritalges because he's one of the best in the market right now because it's not official that he has renewed for Arsenal. So I think that, that even though we say that Xavier Alonso and we have mentioned this before, that Alonso has an important voice inside the Real Madrid recruitment. Is this also true that he was thinking in the long term? He wasn't thinking in his first season. So I think that some of the players who have arrived this season will be really important in the next two or three seasons. And also because. Because there are many, many youngsters like Eduardo Camavinga who still, who is still developing, even Aurelie and so many. I'm sure that most of them will be important in the next two, three years also because they are great investments from the club and they really need to, you know, to play them.
- [35:05]
Host/Moderator
All right, let's move on because next we'll talk about refereeing conspiracies and a surprise music career for a Madrid icon.
- [35:22]
Ayo Akimolere
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Colin Miller
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Guillermo Ray
Know my husband Dax, then you also.
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Colin Miller
Know he loves shopping for a car.
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Guillermo Ray
Selling a car?
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Colin Miller
Not so much.
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Ayo Akimolere
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Guillermo Ray
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Colin Miller
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- [37:32]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, look. Another big story surrounding Madrid involves refereeing. Last week, the club said that are preparing to submit a report to FIFA to detail what is happening in Spanish football with regard to refereeing. Colin, I mean, come on, man. This is not the first time Real Madrid have had issues with referees. Can you bring us up to speed with what's going on here?
- [37:51]
Colin Miller
Yeah, so, yeah, as you say, it's this, this is a very, it's a very Spanish football thing for, for clubs to. To make official complaints about refereeing. I do think one. One of the issues for this is this. This happened after Saturday's game at Real Sociedad when Dean Hoisen was sent off and decision was upheld by var and Madrid complained about it after the game. They thought it was an unfair dismissal. Maybe they did have a point. But again, this, this sort of all goes back to. To last season as well, when there was a number of issues and Real Madrid voiced their displeasure to the Spanish Football Federation, to La Liga, to the people that essentially oversee the officiating body, and they were requesting for. For VAR audio files to be released and things like that. And this all sort of came to your head last season, actually, ahead of the Copa del Rey final against Barcelona, whenever the. The match, his pretty much press conference, which again is maybe a little bit unusual for non Spanish football fans, but he had his press conference and he essentially broke down in tears by saying how his family had sort of been subjected to this abuse, essentially, and he blamed it on what had come out of Real Madrid tv essentially, and saying that of him being essentially a dishonest figure and his officiating. So, yeah, these things do have an impact and it's something that is a Spanish football issue. It's a Real Madrid issue. And I think one of the main things that we need to address in this as well is that a lot of this is sort of a political thing, right? And that Real Madrid want to be seen to have for La Liga and for the federation and for the people who are presidents of those associations. There's always different par battles at play and even Real Madrid saying that they're going to submit it to FIFA. And obviously Real Madrid spent the summer at an institutional level praising FIFA for their club World cup and how fantastic an idea this all was. So none of this is really coincidental, but what it does do, of course is that it feeds into a fan base and it tells the fanbase almost what they want to hear. Whereas maybe fans of other clubs would be like, well, this just sort of makes you look a little bit ridiculous. But in the Spanish football context, I think every club is a little bit like this. This isn't unique in clubs sort of making these complaints about officials. So, yeah, I think that all has to be taken into context. But I think another thing about this is this goes right back to VAR and what VAR does, and it sort of. I think it promotes this kind of idea that there is almost like this conspiratorial thing against your. And maybe there's like an unseen thing of what's going on.
- [40:19]
Host/Moderator
So much drama, Guillermo. Look, Spanish FA says that Real Madrid's appeal to rescind Dinha's red card in the 21 win over Sociedado the weekend has been rejected and that he will serve a one match suspension. All right, I'm hesitant to ask this from someone who covers Real Madrid, but is that a conspiracy against Real Madrid and referee decisions?
- [40:40]
Guillermo Ray
I mean, I think that talking from the Madridista side, I. I will say that, that there is this thinking or this belief that it could be a conspiracy, but based on the facts and the fact maybe it's the Negreida's case, which is still a process that is going on. We will have to see the consequences of this judiciary case. And I think is the argument that all Madridists have in mind when they complain about the referees is also true. True, as Colin has said, that there have been changes within the referees committee and they are supposed to be an independent body to the faa. So there are always politics and there will always be. So it's also true. But I think that the Negrita's case have created this atmosphere from two, three years ago. It was when we studied the coverage in Spain for the Athletic and it was. Was like a point of inflection for. For everyone.
- [41:45]
Host/Moderator
Okay, we have to end on this one, gents. I don't know if you've seen it, but a few weeks ago, Madrid legend Sergio Ramos dropped this tune, this music video about his love for Madrid and also how the story with the club ended. Let's. Let's have a little list. I mean, I've seen some of the comments. A lot of people are liking it. But just for anyone who doesn't speak Spanish, it sort of translates to, it's a good thing I left because you didn't treat me the same. You loved me and I loved you. But someone always gives more. Everything was as I dreamt it to be until it was time to wake up. Guillermo, is that Bad Bunny or is that just Sergio Ramos at his finest?
- [42:42]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, it's a good sound because I think the rhythm and some of the covers are from Bad Bunny's team. So we will say, I think that you have knowledge.
- [42:56]
Host/Moderator
Okay, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying. I'm trying to give him some kudos. What do you think of that? Is that too much? I mean, why is he coming out with this? It was a few years ago. I mean, Madrid legend, but enjoy your time in Mexico, brother. You're having a good career.
- [43:09]
Guillermo Ray
I think he has said this publicly in a Spanish show, but Ramos is planning to start his career, as I will say, a music star. Let's see. Let's see how this ends. I'm sure that his football career, his career, play is difficult to, you know, too much, you know, but the thing is that. That he obviously have the capital and the links to many, many artists. We at the Athletic talk to a flamenco group, which is important here in Spain, and he has been always related to flamenco singers. And obviously he doesn't have the best voice. And I think I'm not only speaking for myself, but talking to different music aspects. They say the same him, but now we have Auto Tune, so I guess everyone can be a music star. I'm sure that Florentino, he's not really happy with this, obviously, because obviously he's talking about his exit. And it was a difficult moment at Real Madrid, but in the end, I think it was a good moment for Florentino because I think he showed that the club is above every player in the following renewal negotiations. Right now with Vinicius, we were talking about Benitius renewal. I think that with Ramos, they set an example, a good example for the club because they said, hey, we have these terms. We keep these terms, and you have to accept them because we are Real Madrid. And mostly, I think Ramos is trying to explain from his side what was going on at that time. Time. I. I love you guys. I wanted to. To be with you for longer, but you didn't take into account. And yeah, I feel that he has been luckier in other romantic situations talking about. But, you know.
- [45:10]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, I mean, Colin, I mean, it sounds like he's clearly let it go.
- [45:15]
Colin Miller
He's.
- [45:16]
Host/Moderator
He's over it.
- [45:16]
Ayo Akimolere
Right.
- [45:16]
Host/Moderator
But I mean, it's. It's. Auto Tune aside, is that making your.
- [45:20]
Colin Miller
Top 10, I might add, it to my Spotify playlist. It's a certain, there's a certain, like, it's such. It's just gioramoso, isn't it? If you had to pick one player from the last decade to, to sort of go while he's still playing, by the way, he's still got his playing career in Mexico. But the fact that this song is called Sibela's where, where the fountain in Madrid where they go to celebrate their trophies and it's sort of like, oh, this love breakup song. And I think, I mean there, there is a, there is a sort of a slightly, a slightly. As Guillermo hinted out there, the sort of underlying theme to this was that when Sergio Ramos left Real Madrid Madrid, that was a negotiation process that majorly, majorly backfired from his point of view because he was trying to just get that extra year to on this contract, that long term stability. And Florentino Perez essentially called his bluff and it was a major shock at the time. And Ramos left as a free agent. Obviously he would go on to psg. But yeah, he's certainly someone that you could imagine at least attempting to have a career in the entertainment industry following his player career. So it's good to see.
- [46:23]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, it is. I actually don't mind it. It's quite a catchy tune, but let's leave it there, Jed. So I really appreciate you joining us. Gil, Admo, Colin, appreciate your time and also Jack for his voice note a little earlier on. That's it from us. We'll be back soon.
- [46:38]
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