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- [00:00]
LinkedIn Jobs Advertiser
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Ayo Akimolere
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- [00:10]
James Pearce
And agents so you can transform tomorrow.
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Thomas Hill
Workday moving business forever forward. Tonight's meal Tilapia Surprise with boiled cabbage.
- [00:18]
James Pearce
Begin cooking steps 1 through 50 now.
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- [00:48]
Football Manager / Instacart Advertiser
The next evolution in football storytelling Football Manager is back in our lives. For the first time, Football Manager 26 refreshes the managerial experience and sets the stage for you to define your football destiny. Now, chances are that as a listener to this podcast, you've spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on previous iterations of this game. Tommy Svendel laughs and Czerno Samba and are much better in the game than in real life. Toribo west, we salute you. Well, FM26 is going to give you the richest matchday experience ever. With enhanced player movement and greater on pitch detail, bringing new levels of depth and drama to every match. For the first time, you can compete at the pinnacle of English football. And as the Premier League debuts. With fully licensed club badges kits and official player photos, and with a completely overhauled UI by the genius developers at Sports Interactive, every aspect from training to tactics to transfers belongs to you and your vision. Football Manager 26 is out now across platforms. Step into the dugout and change the game.
- [01:49]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic fc Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Anfield roared and booed as Liverpool emphatically beat Real Madrid in the Champions League. So could this reignite Liverpool's season? And with us today we have James Pearce. We've also got Thomas Hill, Lopez Manchero in the studio as well. A James one nil scoreline. But you know, watching that match, I don't think 1 nil reflected the intensity of Liverpool. You know, was it exactly what they needed after what, I guess some might describe it as a.
- [02:27]
James Pearce
A tough couple of weeks. Yeah, it's been an absolutely torrid period for them, isn't it? When you think, you know, four straight Premier League defeats and you had that kind of chasing in Carabel cup exit as well, and all the kind of noise and negativity around, you know, had Slot done the right thing by leaving out, you know, pretty much all his big hitters and, and how, if anything, it really cranked up the pressure ahead of such a big week. You know, Villa, Real Madrid, man, City. But yeah, he's, he's got exactly the kind of response he wanted. You know, I think it felt like a big step forward against Villa on the weekend, you know, stop the rot, look much more secure. But yeah, that performance against Real Madrid, I, I don't think anyone could really, hand on heart, say they saw that coming because that was by far and away Liverpool's most complete performance probably since they thrashed Tottenham to secure the Premier League title in April, because they just, they just haven't got close to those levels since. And you know, in possession, real fluency to them, creative spark, look dangerous. But probably the biggest change for me was out of possession. You know, they just looked so much more disciplined and organized and compact where too often this season, you know, teams have just cut through them at will.
- [03:43]
Ayo Akimolere
Much will be made of also how Wirtz played yesterday and what do you think changed in his match and in his game and how do you think Arna Slot utilized him better, more in an optimal way?
- [03:54]
James Pearce
Yeah, I, I thought that was Florian Vertz's best night in a, in a Liverpool shirt. I think, I think the problem for Slot so far since he brought him in, it has been kind of trying to work out, you know, where he best fits. And of course, when you have him in that number 10 role, it does upset the balance of the midfield and, and he has just hasn't quite been able to get that, that balance right. Yeah, I thought it worked really well playing him off the left in place of Gagpo, that the, the combination between him and Andy Robertson clicked. You know, Vert was also given freedom to kind of drift into central areas and find pockets of space. And, and I just think as well, going back to the tried and trusted midfield, you know, that three of Gravenbert, Mallister, Zabozla, they know each other's game inside out. They were such a huge part of why Liverpool won the Premier League last season. And going back to that has definitely made them more secure. And you know, I think he's probably now found that probably is the way to get Wirts into this Liverpool team to, to have him playing off one of the, one of the sides because, you know, he, he was on the left against Real Madrid. You know, you go back a few weeks and he was playing off the right in Frankfurt and that was. That was another decent night for him.
- [05:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Thomas, let's. Let's get the Real Madrid perspective on this one, because, look, that's only Madrid's second defeat suffered this season under Alonso. I mean, but I'm watching the Valencia game and they thrashed them like 4 nil. Then you come to the Champions League, which should be their playground, and you get such a real flat performance. Why do you think they didn't translate that league form to Champions League form?
- [05:26]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I mean, I think. I think the Champions League for a while now has been something totally different to. To La Liga. They're certainly not used to. To facing a team with. With that kind of intensities as Liverpool. Obviously, James has just been talking about their kind of recent, recent slump, but even so, you know, this is still a star, solid team, full of intensity. I think that was maybe the thing that worried about fans the most, the lack of intensity. Kind of reminiscent of the 52 defeat to Atletico earlier this season. Even though Alon Alonzo kind of claimed they were. They were totally different things. But, yeah, the worry for Madrid will be that this is another big game which they've lost. Okay, they. They won the Classico 2 1, but that was against a Barca team with a lot of injuries, obviously thrashed by PSG in the. In the club World cup semi finals in the summer. So that's the. That's the worry. And I guess it's also fair to say that Mbappe has had a brilliant season. He just wasn't firing in this one. Not many of their stars were. I think maybe that is ultimately what ends up. What ends up being the difference here.
- [06:25]
Ayo Akimolere
Yes, it's becoming a bit of a rivalry. You think about the amount of times these two teams have met, and it always feels rather special, if I'm honest. Like, outside looking in, you're seeing Anfield just get up on itself because they know how powerful and how difficult this opponent is. Does it feel like that for Madrid?
- [06:42]
Thomas Hill
No, definitely. I think these are two. These are two teams that see themselves as European royalty, that are European royalty in many ways. I think in Spain, a lot is made of the Anfield atmosphere. That's seen as a real kind of temple of football, as they say. So that is a big thing. I think any time Madrid face an English team is going to be a huge test, big occasion city they face so many times and are facing again in the league phase. So, yeah, those two, those two games kind of are Becoming like European classicos almost.
- [07:12]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, we have to talk about Conor Bradley James. We'll talk about Trent a little later on. But I mean, how fitting was it that he was the fullback that pocketed Vinnie Jr. And considering that's where, you know, Trent Alexander Arnold, who was a substitute, was sitting. I mean the Anfield crowd, every time he made a tackle just roared for him.
- [07:31]
James Pearce
Yeah, they did. And he really just fed off that kind of outpouring of energy and emotion from the stands that was, that was the best night of Conor Bradley's Liverpool career. I think, you know, people will think back to Real Madrid's visit to Anfield last November. If you remember rightly, you know, probably the, the iconic image that night was Bradley dumping Mbappe on his backside with a, a crunching challenge. But in terms of a full 90 minute performance, that was on a whole different level this time around because you know, Vinicius is one of the most dangerous attacking players in world football. And I think you only had to look at the first 10 or 15 minutes. I lost count the number of times Madrid shifted it out to the left hand side. They, you know, clearly that was part of the game plan, you know, believing you could get at Bradley and unsettle him. Yet Vinicius, you know, in the end he went from being lively early on to completely losing heart because Bradley absolutely pocketed him. You know, just a sensational display of controlled aggression from Bradley. And not only that, you know, he did his job defensively, but he was a real outlet going forward as well with those underlapping runs of his. The way he combined with, with Salah, you know, some of the deliveries from him into the feet of Ekatike as well. That was a big one for Bradley because of course he's been, you know, he's kind of, he was earmarked as kind of the Alexander Arnold heir apparent. But you know, that coronation hasn't really taken place up to now because he did his hamstring in pre season, missed the start of the season and then when he had played in the, probably when, you know, mid September onwards, he, he just really couldn't get going. There was a lack of rhythm, a lack of form. I was looking back before and he got five yellows in his first eight appearances this season and that it just kind of spoke to someone who was just a bit rash, a bit off the pace in games. He was getting hauled off slot, was having to use the Bosley as a makeshift right back. And then that has the knock on effect of weakening the midfield so, yeah, I think getting Bradley up to speed was always going to be key to Liverpool getting more stability through the team. Now, I think as a Liverpool fan, you just want to see him build on it, because the frustration a year ago was he was brilliant against Real Madrid and then did his hamstring and didn't play again for six weeks. You know, now, now he's had two big performances against Villa in Real Madrid. The challenge is, can he now go and do it again? At the Etihad on Sunday, Liverpool restricted.
- [09:45]
Ayo Akimolere
Real Madrid Thomas to just two shots on target, considering the attacking prowess they've got. But I wonder if there's a wider conversation about how Xabi Alonso has got this team playing to his tune and whether or not this is still a team in that tradition in his likeness. But also about his Champions League experience coaching a team Leverkusen obviously he had experience with, but perhaps this shows his limited knowledge of the competition as a coach, as a manager.
- [10:09]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I think, I think that's probably fair to say. I think it's also true that there's a lot of inexperience in that team full stop. Right. I mean, I think in the defense alone, Carrera's and House and the left back and center back, Both under. Under 22 years old, Guler, 20 years old. A bit of a point was made about that after the game about the kind of amount of unnecessary fouls that maybe they conceded, which I think comes down to inexperience as well. But yeah, clearly it's, it's a work in progress under, under Alonso. I think he, he took on a big rebuilding project because Ancelotti, for all of his successes as Alonso's predecessor, you know, by the time he leaves, you have got a pretty aging defense, some youngsters not playing so much. I mean, Guler has played so much under Alonso and looked brilliant with him.
- [10:52]
Ayo Akimolere
When you say rebuilding, is that also in terms of style of play as well? Is that what you're thinking, having to teach them a new way of working?
- [10:59]
Thomas Hill
Totally. I mean, you know, fair to say, I think that Ancelotti's approach was more laissez faire. I kind of. I can't really remember the last time a coach like Alonso came in with this kind of project, you know, wanting to change the team's style of play completely. And, and often that actually goes against the grain of, of how Madrid have been successful. You know, often it's been managers who kind of just let, let the individual stars do their thing. So, you know, it's a work in progress. He's experienced teething issues and you know, kind of off field issues that I'm sure we'll discuss later in the podcast. But yeah, the signs are good, but these big game defeats are really what he'll be measured by, by a lot of people in Madrid and what will make some, some fans worry for now.
- [11:38]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, we have to talk about. The reception Trent got when he came on the booze were absolutely deafening.
- [11:45]
Thomas Hill
Real test of his metal this, his 11th Real Madrid appearance.
- [11:49]
Blue Apron / T-Mobile / BetterHelp Advertiser
There would have been a few more.
- [11:50]
Thomas Hill
But for a hamstring injury. He never expected to be returning home so soon.
- [11:56]
Ayo Akimolere
There was also a mural of Trent defaced in the lead up to the game. James, you were at the stadium. I watched it on TV and I thought it was so loud, a few claps, but really majority booze. How strong was the reaction in there?
- [12:10]
James Pearce
I thought it was very predictable. You know, you go back to the final weeks of his Liverpool career and there was this debate, wasn't there, about whether it was the right thing to do, you know, to, to kind of voice your frustration and your anger that a lot of fans felt over, over the fact that he decided to, to leave for Real Madrid. And if you remember rightly, of course, you know, he was booed by a significant number of fans against Arsenal after the title had been won, yet then had a really positive final day of the season when they're the trophy lift and, and got the kind of send off he, he kind of wanted. But I just think the rules of engagement were always going to be different this time around with him coming back in, you know, the white strip of Real Madrid. You know, I was slightly baffled by, you know, some pundits coming out and saying, you know, I really hope he has, you know, he deserves a great reception. It's like you mentioned about the rivalry between Liverpool and Real Madrid. You know, they've met each other in two Champions League finals in the last seven years. So he's, it's not a situation where it's like he's just gone to, to someone that's got no relevance to Liverpool. He's gone to one of the clubs, probably one of only four or five who could potentially stop Liverpool from winning the Champions League this season. So there was always going to be, you know, a really hot reception for him. So it didn't, it didn't surprise me. It was pretty merciless. You know, when he stepped on, you know, it was, it was a real booming, you know, rendition of jeers and boos that then grew Louder and louder with every, every touch that he had. You know, the ironic cheers when he misplaced a pass and then over hit across in stoppage time. Yeah, I think there'll probably be a time at some point in the future when Trent Alexander Arnold does return to Liverpool and, and is welcome back with, with open arms. But I just think that is a long way off. You know, it's still pretty raw, the fact that I think a lot of fans that I speak to say they kind of would have accepted it maybe if Liverpool were in the doldrums. And it was like, you know, there were times obviously when Steven Gerrard could have left to win more and, and didn't and showed incredible loyalty. But it was like, I think what, you know, affected a lot of Liverpool fans that they felt that, you know, Liverpool have just won the Premier League. Why do you need you, you grew up in the city. Why, why do you need to, to, to, to walk away at this point? Now, of course I completely understand the flip side of that that Trent's talked about, you know, the new challenge. Going to live in another country, you're going to test yourself. You can't get away from the fact Real Madrid are the biggest football club in the world. But football is a tribal, tribal sport, isn't it? You can't always kind of give logic to everything because people will be so wedded to, you know, there is nothing beyond the club that they support and they will never be able to get their head around that. A local lad decided to walk away from that.
- [14:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Velger van Dijk also, it was asked, did you see Trent before the match or plan to do so? And just answered, no. Fans are one thing, James, but you can also, as a club, as players or whatever, just diffuse that because there is still a human being who's got to play football on that field. Yeah, yeah.
- [15:06]
James Pearce
I mean, it was, it was pretty blunt from Virgil Van Dijk, wasn't it? And it was, it was a similar sentiment. I spoke to him in the mix zone after the game against Aston Villa on Saturday and, and asked him whether he would be having any contact with Trent ahead of the game. And he was asked, you know, have you had any contact with him since he's gone to Real Madrid? And he pretty much said no. He's got his life in Madrid, I've got my life here. He decided to leave. We all moved on and I think it's a tricky balancing act for, for Virgil van Dijk because he, we know how much it means to him to be Liverpool captain that he sees himself as the, the figurehead. And of course he knows how emotions are running very high amongst the, the fan base. He gave an interview after a game towards the back end of last season, Virgil, you know, he was quite emphatic then when he just signed his own contract extension where he said, you know, for me, I don't, you know, I don't really understand why anyone would want to leave Liverpool because this is the place to be. That is very much kind of the way that he sees things. But yeah, it's fair to say that, you know, some other players and even Slot himself, you know, said afterwards, you know, I gave Trent a hug and I'll always only have positive things to say about him. But yeah, Virgil's assessment was yeah, pretty, pretty short and sweet.
- [16:17]
Ayo Akimolere
What do you make of it all, Thomas? I know you're not a Liverpool fan necessarily, but from the outside looking in, yeah, definitely.
- [16:23]
Thomas Hill
And I can totally take what James says there about how Liverpool fans are feeling. It's very raw emotions. You know, I'm sure Madrid fans would feel a similar way if there was a, a player that they brought up who, who went to. Who went the other way. Having said that, I think with my La Liga hat on, you know, Barcelona Madrid, it is, it is a different kind of kettle of fish to, to those Premier League teams. You look at how Rashford has settled in at Barcelona this season, how he's talked about the club. I think those two are still seen as the, as the ultimate for, for a lot of players. And clearly Alexander Arnold is taking this challenge extremely seriously. You know, the fact that he was already speaking Spanish at his presentation, which I know.
- [17:02]
Ayo Akimolere
Do you know what I mean?
- [17:02]
James Pearce
Because I've probably didn't know.
- [17:04]
Thomas Hill
It's clearly he's been doing it for quite a while before he left with Madrid fans, certainly. But. No, but I think it is a sign of how he's taking it seriously. He's taking this new challenge seriously. I'm sure it would have been a decision that he thought about for a long time. And yeah, as I say, those two clubs still hold a certain allure for players that I think we as fans have to, have to have to understand. Even if La Liga is not at the level of the Premier League at the moment. Yeah, I can see both sides, but I do ultimately think it's harsh towards a player who has achieved so much for Liverpool.
- [17:39]
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- [20:20]
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- [21:37]
Ayo Akimolere
Signings have done so far. Ekatike Verts, Isak Kirkz and Frimpong are the main ones. Who's overwhelmed? Who's underwhelmed you out of that group there?
- [21:47]
James Pearce
James Ekatike has definitely been the, the pick of the new arrivals so far. He's been a revelation really since, since joining Liverpool. Just looks the park. You know, sometimes with players, you know, especially when they, they arrive at Liverpool for big money, there can be that kind of bit of a culture shock, I guess, coming from, you know, from where he came from, untrapped Frankfurt, in terms of the pressure and scrutiny and expectation levels that come with we're playing for Liverpool. But he's just fitted, fitted straight in, able to handle the, the physical demands of the Premier League. Works really, really hard for the team, which is, you know, obviously a crucial part of the way that that slot wants them to, to set up and he's a goal scorer. You know, he's a, he's a natural finisher. You only have to see the way he tucked away that chance against, against his old club Frankfurt a few weeks ago in the Champions League. Very calm and composed in, in the final third. So yeah, I think Wirtz is, has shown flashes of it so far. I don't think he's been anywhere near as bad as some of the criticism that's come his way and, and I just think reverts as well. It's pretty naive of anyone to think just because he cost such a crazy amount of money that he just comes in and lights the place up straight away. Because, you know, we, we know what a difference it is coming from. From where he was at moving away from home for the first time. Still only 22 as well. I think people forget with, with Verts and, and also having to try and fit into a team that hasn't been functioning particularly well. You know. Mama Dashvili obviously has played a fair bit with Alisson's injury issues.
- [23:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Yes, the keeper. Yeah, yeah. But it's weird we don't class him as a new signing because it felt like that was done so long ago. Right.
- [23:27]
James Pearce
And he's. I, I'd say he's got better. He had a. I think there's certainly been a few goals that he's conceded during this run in the team where you couldn't help but watch it and think Alisson keeps that out. I think the last couple of games, you know, he has commanded his box to a greater extent. Mama Dashvili and made some important saves. Kirk has had a tough time. I think I was surprised that slot kept faith with him. I got the impression he wanted him to almost play through a difficult spell. He's kind of now gone in a different direction with Robertson being recalled and Liverpool look much, much better for it. But again, Kirk has, is still so young people have short memories. You know, lots of players in the, in the Klopp era needed three or four months to. To get to grips with it. Robertson was a, was a case in point when he first arrived from, from Hull City. So Frimpong has had a tough time for different reasons. Just hasn't been able to stay fit. He's had two, two hamstring problems. It's been a mixed bag so far, but I just think with so much. It was such a turbulent summer for a whole host of reasons that I think it was always going to take a while for, for some of those New faces to fit in.
- [24:34]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. What do you think of their signings, Thomas? I mean there's no better team. The Real Madrid really, who know how to deal with big signings, sometimes not big money signings because of the way they do their business, but they are big egos. They are big. You think of the, the work Arnold Slot's been doing so far.
- [24:48]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I mean it's, it definitely seems like it was a more Galactico esque summer almost than Madrid signings. I think if you look at Madrid signings, big outlay as well, 180 million euros but you know, mostly on kind of younger, slightly inexperienced, inexperienced plays. You've got house and he's played in the Premier League. Obviously Carrera is in the Champions League with Benfica, but I think those are more inexperienced players than the ones Liverpool brought in who I think at the time, maybe the outside perspective was that they were coming in to, to basically make this well oiled title winning machine even better. Clearly at the moment it's been a bit of as, as James says, they're kind of teething issues. It's. It's taken a bit of time. But yeah, I have no doubt that those signings, once they're up to full speed are going to make Liverpool even better. And you know, I think the one that is interesting is, is vert. I think there were, there were rumors in the summer definitely that he could be joining Alonso at Madrid. You know, whether there was any truth to that. But he's certainly a player who like Spanish fans really admire and you know, hopefully this performance against Real Madrid can be the one that kind of catapults his, his Liverpool career to new heights.
- [25:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean I do think about the pressures we put on people in football and I'm also thinking about the Liverpool manager. You know, have we a bit harsh on a slot because this is the kind of one that the Premier League last season, first time in the Premier League and actually had quite a decent Champions League run as well.
- [26:08]
Thomas Hill
No, definitely. I mean, you know, I'm coming from a perspective of a manager being criticized for, you know, only two defeats or season. So perhaps I'm not the person to, to ask, but yeah, I do think we're being harsh on him. You know, he's, he's also up against an Arsenal side managed by Arteta who was strengthened significantly in the summer who are going to take advantage of any, any minor slip up. Clearly there, there have been a few, but yeah, I would say that we need to give him a bit more respect for what he did in his first season, you know, it's been a, a tough, a tough summer as we said also summer of transition with players and, and that's going to take time to, to adapt to. You know. No, no club knows that better than Real Madrid. Although, you know, those, those above probably, you know, don't share the same, same opinion.
- [26:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Big one. James on Sunday at the Etihad. I'm going to be in Manchester actually on Friday to preview it. I mean this feels like a defining one really to kick start that sort of league form properly, to show the consistency, to show the fluidity away at the eti. Manchester City are actually looking like they're gathering steam. Could be a real trick one for Liverpool.
- [27:09]
James Pearce
Yeah, it's, it's a massive end, isn't it to what's, what's a, a huge week especially going into the international breaks, you know, that you know, whatever happens at the Etihad on Sunday, you know, whether it's a massive, you know, morale boosting win or an, an energy SAP and defeat, it's going to linger for, for a fortnight. And Liverpool looking a lot much better shape than, than when this fixture was kind of looming on the horizon the, a couple of weeks ago. And of course you know they're gonna have happy memories of their last visit there back in February when they went there one in the Premier League for the first time I think it was in a decade since they'd won at the Etihad in a league match and out outplayed and out fought City on the, on the day. You know, of course City now a much better, you know, resurgent force under, under Guardiola, helped by of course Klopp's former sidekick Pep Linders who will be up against Liverpool for, for the first time. So, so yeah, I certainly don't envisage maybe, maybe one possible change. You think will he be tempted to slot maybe to bring back in Gagpo. But it, you know, you'd have thought having found this winning formula against Villa and against Real Madrid, I'd be absolutely shocked if he, if he significantly changed it. And, and he will know because if they can go there and put on a display and win. Talk about changing the mood. You know, people were talking about Liverpool being an absolute crisis off the back of those four straight Premier League defeats and going out the Carabao cup and then suddenly now, you know, they go to the Etihad with three wins out of four in the Champions League, third place in the Premier League, you know, seven points to Arsenal Yes, Arsenal look very strong, but there's a long, long way to go and if they can put one over City, it would send out a hell of a statement.
- [28:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I've just received a note from our producer Mike saying, Harland, two goals away from 100 Premier League goals. E us. I mean, well, it's a tough one away for Liverpool, isn't it?
- [29:00]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, definitely. I mean, with Haaland in that kind of form, you know, I think him, him and Mbappe at the moment got to be two, two best forwards in, in world football. It really does seem like. I know that Haaland was kind of brushing off those Messi and Ronaldo comparisons, but it's sort of getting to those levels, isn't it, of a player that picks up the ball and you just know, you just know he's going to score, basically. I mean, it's very different in, to Messi in some ways, but probably maybe more similar to Ronaldo. But yeah, huge, huge test for Liverpool and, you know, real test of this, of this recent mini, mini revival that they've had.
- [29:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Fantastic. James, before you go, I know you're one of the stars of our Liverpool podcast. Walk on. And also you got a book coming out as well. So here's your opportunity to plug that book, let people know what it's about and where they can find it.
- [29:43]
James Pearce
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's released on Thursday this week. Walk on. Inside. Ana slots Liverpool. Yeah, it kind of took over my life this summer doing it after the end of the season that to the middle of August. So, yeah, it's the story really of kind of how Liverpool and FSG handled that transition from, from one era to another, the handling of, you know, Jurgen Klopp's departure, the story of Michael Edwards, his return as FSG CEO of football, you know, the importance of bringing in Richard Hughes as sporting director and then kind of the rise of Arna Slot, looking at his past, you know, his kind of formative years in Holland and then what he changed when he came to Liverpool, you know, speaking to lots of people from, you know, the ownership through to executives, players and, and staff to kind of try and build a picture of the season in terms of how they were able to surpass all expectations. Because of course, you know, lots of rival fans were thinking, you know, this is going to be the toughest transition any club has faced since Alex Ferguson stepped down from Manchester United. Yet, you know, it, it was seamless in terms of how they ran away with the Premier League title. So, yeah, kind of the story of kind of how they, how they did it. I'm hoping it will help. The Liverpool have had a slight upturn in fortunes because as a mate rather unhelpfully messaged me a few weeks ago, they said would it be a problem for you if Slot went before the book came out? The now I don't stay to the.
- [31:05]
Ayo Akimolere
End of the season.
- [31:06]
James Pearce
No, I don't. I think that was tongue in cheek because I don't think anyone seriously thought that on the slop's job was in jeopardy. But. But yeah it's. I think it's also why there's plenty in that I think as well that kind of points to why there was absolutely no hint of panic behind the scenes at Liverpool during this current dip that they had because of the belief they have in Slot. And I do think one of the, you know, one of the many disrespectful things that I keep seeing online is this idea that he just won the league with Klopp's team. I'd like to think this kind of book should put to bed that idea that he. All he did was said say to them, we'll just go, you know, go out and do whatever you did under Jurgen. That'll be fine. When people forget the fact that Liverpool actually, you know, trailed off pretty badly towards the end of the Klopp era and it was, it was Arna Slot who absolutely revived them. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully something that will be well received by Liverpool fans from Thursday onwards.
- [32:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Liverpool fans and those who have doubted Slot's brilliance as well. Make sure you go check out James Pearce's book. All right. Cheers, James. Appreciate your time and we'll catch you soon, mate.
- [32:16]
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It's third down.
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Thomas Hill
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- [33:15]
James Pearce
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
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Well, I dig the mattress and I.
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Wow, impressive. Let me try.
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James Pearce
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Thomas Hill
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James Pearce
So what are we having for launch?
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- [34:26]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, Thomas, let's turn our attention to Madrid now. Three wins from four in the Champions League, first in La Liga, two defeats all season. Yet the Athletic has reported of the tensions between Alonso and some of the squad. Can you shed some light on that?
- [34:40]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I know that it, you know, it seems ridiculous from the outside, doesn't it, that a coach who's only lost two, two games all season could be in, in this kind of position. But I think it speaks to what's always bubbling under the surface at Madrid. The kind of player, player, coach tensions. I don't think that's, that's something new, by the way. I think under multiple managers that, that has always been something that threatens to, to bubble over and it's why Madrid have so often turned to, to coaches who place their faith in kind of the individuals. But yeah, basically. Mario's piece detailed how several sources said players were upset about kind of having less freedom now under Alonso than. Than under Ancelotti. There was this great quote by an individual close to a senior Madrid player Saying he thinks he's Pep Guardiola, but for now he's just chubby, which, you know, seems kind of pretty. Pretty brazen from. From the outside. I do think it's just a group of players, a group of really successful players, many of whom have. Have won the Champions League twice already. Just kind of getting used and experience experiencing teething problems in getting used to a totally new way of playing under Alonso, who isn't an experienced coach. He is a very successful coach, though, already in his. In his short career, as we know. So I think it comes down to that. Two very different ways of doing things, from Ancelotti to Alonso. I guess it's worth pointing out, though, that things under Ancelotti last season weren't so great. They finished trophyless, or at least without having won any of the major trophies. So a change was needed. Alonso's got this big project on his hands. I think those tensions were kind of shown up a bit by that. That Vinicius outburst at the Clasico when he was. When he was subbed off. But look, it's. It's a coach who's. Who's doing things his way. Maybe that's going to rub some players up the wrong way. But it's an interesting battle and we'll see. We'll see what happens. I mean, if battle is the right word, because I think. I think Alonso has poured water on it. He's been very diplomatic in his press conferences. He'll know better than most the. The everyday issues that occur in Madrid like that.
- [36:39]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting. Like, he's only been there a short period of time. I mean, you've got to let the guy figure out what he's doing there, how he's going to give people his philosophy. I mean, I just don't like getting too far ahead of myself, especially so early in the season. But let's talk about the players then, because we've touched on Vinnie, we've touched on Trent, not really starting much. The one that baffles me is Endrick like this. This Brazilian wonder kid that Real Madrid brought, yet barely played by Alonso.
- [37:06]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, it has been odd. I mean, Alonso obviously had a lot of faith in the. The young striker who played at the club World cup, became top scorer in kind of amazing circumstances. Endrick was injured at the time. My colleague Mario wrote a great piece about what's been going on in those kind of five months where he didn't play. He finally did play at the weekend against Valencia. 11 minutes. You're right. That they spent a lot of money on him so they will want that to, to go well. He seemed to be another one of those kind of junior caliphate Brazilian recruits who you expected to go from strength to strength and it hasn't quite gone like that. We reported interest from Leon last week in, in the January transfer window. So let's see what happens. I. My personal opinion is that he does offer something a bit different off the bench, but Alonso clearly for now seems to, seems to think differently.
- [37:53]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Does he have a bit of a problem though? I mean, it's a team stacked with players, but also players in some pretty important positions. I always think about Valverde who played last night in the right back position. He's the midfielder, he wants to play in the midfield. But then you've got this kind of dilemma where you're like, I've also just got play them a little bit. Like Liverpool, we see Zobat Sly playing, you know, as a right back, for instance. It's just too many stars for 11 players to fit on, on the field.
- [38:18]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean you look at Rodrigo as well, who came off the bench last night. He, he has been underperforming but again, it's yet another great attacker. He's got Gula Bailey featured under, under Ancelotti last season, under Alonso. He's a player transformed. Him and Mbappe have formed this, this really nice partnership. So yeah, I guess I would caution against reading too much into that Liverpool defeat as well because again, okay, it's another big game defeat. Clearly that is worrying but as you say otherwise, Alonso's start has been super impressive. He's got a big job on his hands. He's trying to fit a lot of, a lot of star players into this one team. David is a good point because he would prefer to play as a midfielder, but clearly he's, he's having to be used where, where Alonso needs him with Alexander Arnold kind of not having quite found his feet. So yeah, it's, it's an intriguing challenge for him.
- [39:09]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, finally we have to talk about Madrid's transfer plans with January on the horizon. You've spoken about Endrick. Two big Premier League center backs have said to be on their radar. Konate obviously and William Saliba. I just want you to calm Arsenal fans down right now because you know, of course Saliba has just signed a brand new contract. Saliba's not leaving Arsenal anytime soon, but the interest remains, surely.
- [39:32]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I mean, we know, we know that he is a player who Madrid have admired. My colleague Mario reported that I think back in April. That was obviously before the contract extension, but who knows what will happen in the future. I think Konate again is another another Premier League center back with Liverpool that Madrid certainly admire from from Mario's reporting as well, and he would seem to fit more into their kind of market signings with his contract up in 2026. We don't know yet what's going to happen with with that and Liverpool. So it's also a sign, I think that Madrid are possibly still looking at reinforcing the back, even though they have made those signings like Howson Carrera's. I guess defeats like last night show that they still do need a bit of that experience and they value that experience. Players like Rudiger and Alaba aren't getting any younger. Militao suffered two ACL injuries in the last couple of years, so you can see where the direction of travel is in terms of in terms of where they need to strengthen.
- [40:25]
Ayo Akimolere
Appreciate that. Thomas, let's leave it there and also write Madrid off at your peril. They are Champions League royalty. Thomas James, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening.
- [40:34]
Football Manager / Instacart Advertiser
We'll be back tomorrow. You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aiddy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated clubhouse shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [41:15]
James Pearce
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Ayo Akimolere
I never look so good. You look the same, but with this.
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James Pearce
Camera, everything looks better.
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Ayo Akimolere
Especially me. You haven't changed your hair in 15 years.
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