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- [00:00]
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Ayo Akimolere
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David Ornstein
Why is he smiling?
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- [01:32]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. After 22 years, Arsenal have finally won the Premier League. So how did Mikel Arteta transform the Gunners from pretenders to champions? All right, in with us for this one, our football correspondent David Ornstein. We've also got former Arsenal midfielder with us, Adrian Clark as well. So Manchester City's draw with Bournemouth handed the title to Arsenal on Tuesday night.
- [02:08]
Adrian Clarke
It needs to be a two step recovery process here for Manchester City to keep the title race alive. Arsenal are champions of England for the first time in 22 years.
- [02:32]
Ayo Akimolere
David after three consecutive seasons finishing second, Arsenal have finally got over the line. What does this mean for Mikel Arteta and indeed Arsenal?
- [02:43]
David Ornstein
This is absolutely monumental on an individual level for him, on a collective level for his players, the staff, executives, ownership supporters. For English football to have a new ish champion because it's the first time in 22 years since 2004 for the European game. It's also a bit of a vindication really of building organically, coming through tough times, a stadium move which you know, I don't believe man City obviously had the move to the Etihad, but that was a very different period in, in their footballing history. Arsenal were sort of competitors who, who fell back as a result of their ambition and, and need to grow. And there were some really barren times when there was a lot of unhappiness and acrimony, changes on and off the pitch, financial strife, Arsene Wenger leaving after, yep, 22 years and all the battles between the Kronkies and Usmanov and Unai Emery onto Mikel Arteta. They won an FA Cup. They then entered some very difficult times where many people on the outside were calling for his head. But the ownership stood by him wholeheartedly. They never questioned his continuation at Arsenal. It was an awful spell where there were pay cuts and redundancies around the COVID era. There was the European Super League debacle and fiasco, which Arsenal a part of. But then obviously with the Kronkes taking full ownership, starting to get a grip on matters, bringing in Tim Lewis as their kind of enforcer on the ground, some real executive leadership there. This rebuild gathered momentum and Arteta was at the heart of it, moving from being head coach to a title change. He was now the manager and things started to really build in the right direction. He was overhauling the culture, the environment, the principles, the personnel, both in terms of those around him, but also on the playing side to developing a squad in his own image, recruiting to his philosophy, being backed first by Edu as sporting director, working with the likes of Raul San Lehi and others, Vinay Venkateshem, so on. Then came a Richard Garlic and more recently Andrea Berta. Tim Lewis departed and so had Edu of course by this point. But there was a consistent thread of, of the Kronkes to Arteta and that's been the, the main one, two in this, so to speak, and, and he's overhauled everything. It's been a, it's been a transformation, a gradual one, to the point where they then became competitive. They got back into the Champions League. Three successive second place finishes, Champions League semi finals, knocking on the door in, in domestic and European competition. And now they've got over the line and you can scrutinize so much of it on, on the style of play and people talk about the set pieces and, you know, people having to go at them about benefiting from refereeing decisions. Well, you only need to rewind 12 months where they seem to be the most afflicted team in the Premier League. When it came to the officials and calls, swings and roundabouts. I think Arsenal are absolutely worthy Premier League champions. It's Been a long time in coming. It is richly deserved. And Mikel Arteta is the key architect to this. He is not everybody's cup of tea. He's also not perfect. There are still learnings to be made. He divides opinion. He's contentious at times, but I think that he has done an absolutely incredible job. It puts him into the pantheon of Arsenal legends in the minds of their people and their supporters. It kind of immortalizes him that he was the man who managed to win back the Top Flight title. The longest they've waited for English football's domestic crown in the post war era. That is a hell of a wait. It really is an incredible story and it's one that is so profound and, and there are so many ramifications. But finally Arsenal have got their hands. Well, almost. They'll lift it at Selhurst park on that Premier League trophy once again.
- [07:11]
Ayo Akimolere
Adrian, let's focus on the now. When junior Krupi scored the goal for, for Bournemouth, every single Arsenal fan, I imagine, wherever they were, somewhere at the stadium, were absolutely in jubilation. I don't know if you saw the connection, but his shirt Number is number 22. Just putting it out there. Perhaps this was fate all along. I mean, from an Arsenal fan's perspective. And you've had a first hand see at the evolution of Mikel Arteta and the most recent version of Arsenal as well. How did you feel?
- [07:38]
Adrian Clarke
Oh, ecstatic. Just ecstatic. I mean, what a goal it was. And yeah, I was, I was dancing around my living room and my kids stayed. I let the kids stay up and then we sort of celebrated together at the end. It was, it was magical. It was, it was, it was a glorious moment for all Arsenal supporters. I was so chuffed for the younger generation of Gooners out there who have never seen Arsenal become champions. So really, really happy for them. And look, it's totally deserved. And what David said about Mick Arteta is bang on. Look, it's been a masterful piece of work from him, you know, inheriting a toxic club, a bit of a mess, you know, dressing room full of, full of characters that really, he didn't believe were going to be a recipe for success. And, and to make those tough decisions at the outset to rebuild and then to gradually brick by brick improve this Arsenal team year on year. To take us to this point is, is amazing because Liverpool and Manchester City were playing a completely different level to Arsenal when, when he took over. So for someone to produce that level of improvement on and off the pitch, by the way, in Terms of standards then in his first ever managerial job is stunning and he deserves all of the praise that he gets.
- [09:04]
David Ornstein
I just wanted to say quickly that in 2019, I was at his opening press conference when he addressed the media. He was unveiled at the Emirates Stadium. Don't forget, he came incredibly close to getting the job a year previously when it went to Unai Emery off the back of Arsene Wenger's reign. He had eyes on this. He knew for many years that he wanted to become a coach. And I think Pep Guardiola has been on the record of saying he always wanted Arsenal. Mikel Arteta and Arsenal wanted to keep him as a coach after he stopped playing. Wenger wanted him to be around, but he decided to go away to Manchester City and cut his teeth with the best in Pep Guardiola. And this was almost a calling for him. And. And when he gave that news conference at the Emirates stadium, I think December 2019, he. He laid out his principles. He talked about shaking the tree and rebuilding culture and environment and standards. So we have to try to engage everybody, actually try to try convince the players what I want to do, how I want to do it. They have to start accepting a different process, a different way of thinking. And I want to get all the staff and everybody at the club with the same mindset. We have to build a culture that has to sustain the rest. And I saw somebody post on social media last night of what he said he was going to do in that opening press conference and what needed to happen. And he's basically done it all. He's delivered in his first number one job. He had never been a manager head coach before then. He'd only been a number two for a short period of time. This is remarkable, whatever you think of him, and people might criticize what I've got to say about him here, and that's perfectly legitimate. You might not like some of his attributes, that's fine. But nobody can deny that what he's achieved here is historic, is pretty unprecedented in terms of a Premier League title winner who is so wet behind the ears in terms of his managerial career. It's really astonishing. And, you know, he will like to think that the fun is only just getting started. And he's. He's at the embryonic stage of his journey. And we say often that a failure has many fathers, and I think we may have even used that phrase within reporting on Arsenal when times were not good. You can check back over the Athletic and people accused the likes of me and James McNicholas. Of peddling some sort of Arsenal PR, Kronky PR Arteta PR. Nothing could have been further from the truth. It was just trying to understand what was going on, investigate, report honestly and accurately and there was enormous faith in Mikel Arteta even when they were post FA cup win down the bottom of the Premier League table at the start of the next season. I think it was a scrambled victory over Norwich City maybe in Aubameyang goal and then Burnley. Around the same period came West Brom in the snow, the North London Derby Saka and Smith Rowe saving him against Chelsea and it went on from there. The success also has many fathers. This is not just about Mikel Arteta. There are people, sung and unsung, known and unknown, on and off the pitch, in front of your eyes and behind the scenes at Arsenal, still now and departed who deserve a huge amount of credit and he would be the first to acknowledge that. But there is no getting away because we have to identify you know the facts in this and Mikel Arteta is the standard bearer of this story and that is why he will get his flowers and deservedly so.
- [13:09]
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- [14:38]
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- [15:08]
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- [15:38]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, let's talk more in depth then about Michael Arteta's journey to this title. He arrived in December 2019 after Unai Emery's departure and also had so much work to do, not only on the pitch, but to change the culture at the club in many respects as well. There's a fascinating read here from James McNicholas's article in the Athletic about how Arsenal built towards winning this title and the idea of identifying a win window. Everything was built towards delivering a title between 2023 and 2027 and so far in four seasons of that five year period they finished second, second, second and guess what? Finally they finished first. Adrian, it's really interesting. I don't know if this was the architecture of Arsenal in many respects, but James seems to think so in many respects and, and it seems to have come true.
- [16:28]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, fascinating. Yeah, I, I would, I, I was unaware of that, but it, it makes sense because of the age profile of, of, of both of those clubs star players. But you can't really ever control what other teams do. You can only really control what, what you're doing. And what happened was big investment we saw, you know, the Declan Rice acquisition was, was the game changer for me. Arsenal had spent big previously and certainly raised the level with the arrivals of like Zinchenko and Jesus and co. But to go and beat off Manchester City in the race for Declan Rice, Signature was a colossal, pivotal crossroads moment and I'll credit Declan Rice for choosing the team that at that point were probably just behind Manchester City. I'm sure he maybe could have earned more there, I don't know. But, but he, he chose to be A part of, of, of Arsenal's journey and thank goodness he did. But yeah, it's, it's been brilliant. And I think over a steady period of time, Arsenal gradually improved tactically. I think Arteta, year on year, has got better himself in the way that he handles himself both in the stadium and with his decision making and with the stuff that he says in the press conferences. I think this season he's been pretty flawless actually, in, in hitting the right tone, hitting the right spot. So, yeah, it's, it's been a heck of a journey, but one that we could all see coming and, and the whole world could see it coming. But it's been based around throughout this journey because Arsenal came from being mid table fodder. He had to start at the back, he had to start with a solid firm foundation at the back and, and shut up shop. And that has remained the cornerstone of Arsenal's success. And, you know, some of the numbers are scarily good. Arsenal are the best team in the world in my opinion. Out of possession, the hardest to score against, the hardest to, to create against. And without that approach, Arsenal wouldn't be where they are today, champion. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's great foresight, great planning, but credit Arteta and his staff for actually executing it because it's great to talk about these things, to write them down on paper. You still got to make the decisions at the right time. In key moments, you've got to make the right call. And he and those around him have, and now they're, you know, it's bearing fruit.
- [18:56]
Ayo Akimolere
I want to get David's opinion on this and yours as well, Adrian, in the fact that we look at all those second place finishes, obviously Arsenal finally got it done this season, but in terms of the project, David, how important was it that this season actually something needed to happen? Because you do think about the psychology of it all, players coming second and second and second again. If they came second again this season, for Arteta, one and for the players too, the energy to carry on another season and maybe go again, I mean, it would have proven very difficult to carry it on if they came second again.
- [19:30]
David Ornstein
Yeah, let's be clear. They had to deliver this season. There was no patience for another season of perceived underachievement from the outside world. I don't think that was necessarily replicated internally in terms of, oh, if it doesn't happen, Mikel Arteta is gone. Like, they back him wholeheartedly and we've seen that in the past and we'll Continue to see it now. It wouldn't surprise you if he signs a new contract and continues at Arsenal for some time into the future. But it would have been really interesting to know how Mikel Arteta would have felt if he missed out again. Would he have wanted to continue? The supporters, the public, the media, media, the clamor, the. The noise would have been huge, whether fair or not. Because, you know, Arsenal's progress is there for all to see. And I love how Adrian talks there about the build from when Mikel Arteta came in. There was a lot of heavy lifting to be done. They had to clean up the changing room. There were some negative forces in there, bad apples, whatever you want to describe them in their view, some will have different views on that. The way, I don't know an Ozil Aubameyang were handled. There are two sides to every story, but clearly they decided to take a path of. Of really root and branch overhaul. And they did build from the back and signings like Gabriel Saliba and then he went out on three loans. They feel such a long time ago, but they were absolutely pivotal and I do think an absolutely pivotal appointment was Andrea Berta coming in as sporting director. Because those you speak to, whether they have a good view of him or. Or not, whether they know him or don't, they talk of a winner who. Not necessarily here for a long time, but he's here for a good time. He's here for Arsenal. He comes with the mentality of Atletico Madrid, where they had success, pretty remarkable given their standing in Spain compared to Real Madrid and Barcelona. And they went after signings for the immediate term, irrespective of what the data and the recruitment department may have said, he wanted Victor Jocheras and he wanted him because he felt he could deliver. Now, whatever people think of his style, his longevity at Arsenal, he has delivered 20 plus goals and some assists too. He's given Arsenal a different style, a cutting edge again. He's not been perfect, he's missed opportunities. They've not always played to his strengths. He's not necessarily played to the team strengths at all times, but I think he's exceeded what many people like me were saying. If he adds 15 goals, that would be great. And when they decided to go for him over, with total respect to a Sesko who might be better for the future, you look around last season's transfers, the Ekatikes of this world, the Isaacs, the Liam Dillaps, he's outperformed all of them, even a Joao Pedro, who I'm a massive fan of his goals have been superior and we cannot underestimate what they've contributed to Arsenal. A team that even if you prefer Rakai Havertz, he's suffered from injury problems. This is an age old story for Arsenal.
- [22:48]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure, Gyokerez has been relatively inconsistent this season. But from where you're sitting, what has been the most definitive moment in this season that has led to Arsenal winning the title? David?
- [23:00]
David Ornstein
Manchester City, they lost that match at the Etihad, but I think it was the day that won them the title. I really do. Declan Rice on the floor saying it's not done. It wasn't. Because finally, after some really tough weeks in a period of the season where Arsenal under Arteta Emery and even late Wenger, they fell apart. They crumbled in spring, February, March, April. That was when things often, not always, but often unravelled. And it happened against Bournemouth and there were fears rippling through the Arsenal fan base. By this time, anxiety had crept in. All the amazing atmosphere of the previous years was maybe dipping. Is it going to happen again? And at the Etihad they produced a performance. They came very close, of course, Reza Kai Havertz and so on to delivering. And they came away from that match clearly believing that they could still win the title. And there were flaws in Manchester City and so it has proved it's a triumph of epic proportion. Whatever you say about some pretty painful performances, they were tough to watch at times. There was a night at Wolves where they threw away the lead against a team with what, only seven points on the board so far at that stage of the season. There was Bournemouth, there was Everton, which was a grind until the Pickford era and the Max Dalman heroics. Newcastle was tough by Leverkusen away, I thought was one of their worst performances. And the doubts were legitimate. You know, there was an overreliance some felt on set pieces, but they delivered when it mattered, which is what they'd never done before since 2004 and they had to. So, yeah, sorry for the long answer, but this was the season and they stepped up to the plate. Now it will be whether they can go on in the immediate term and do the Champions League. But the bigger picture is whether this is a one off or whether Arsenal are here to stay. And that is the challenge.
- [24:56]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, that was the original question, Adrian, if you remember it. Of course the Champions League is still on the line, but they had to win something this season. Just for belief alone.
- [25:09]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, definitely, yeah. There was no option and I do fear that Mikel, energy wise, might have questioned whether he could go again and some of the players might have started to look over their shoulders and think what else is out there. And that's always the danger when you, when you fall short and you've got great players and Arsenal have got great players. So yeah, this is absolutely massive and it should now guarantee that this team absolutely stays together and, and look, they're going to be players, I mean, Ornie's going to be on it all summer, I'm sure, but they're going to be a whole host of unbelievable players that want a part of Mikel Arteta's Arsenal and, and that is tremendously exciting. So yeah, look, yeah, it's been a, it was a much, much needed success built on, on, on defense, as I said. I mean just, just to give you an idea, by the way, on, on shots on target faced by Arsenal this season, 87, very low number City 122 and that's a big difference. Expected goals against even bigger, 27.32 XG against for Arsenal, 42.44 was the next closest team and that is Manchester City. It's crazy the difference and that without that, that focus on solidity which is really built around not, not just Gabrielle and Saliba and Raya who are all sensational players, it's built around the collective, it's built around not relying on one person, it's built around everyone grafting for each other, covering your mate's back. That is so satisfying to win that way. And it kind of is the Arsenal way. It's the Arsenal I grew up on with George Graham in, in the 80s.
- [26:57]
David Ornstein
One nil to the Arsenal. That was how they won the League title.
- [27:00]
Adrian Clarke
Exactly. And still sing it. Still sing it. You know the old pet shop boy song. So yeah, look, it's, it's been old school this season. It's been an old school Premier League campaign. So Arsenal probably fitting winners with all these set pieces. But the exciting thing for Arteta and for, and for Arsenal supporters and the worry for all of the rivals domestically and in Europe is that this team can, can get so much better. I mean think about Arsenal in possession and I don't think there's anyone out there that that would say that Arsenal can't improve. Of course they can improve massively. I think they've got a world class defense, world class out of possession players. Now the next phase is about developing a world class forward line. A forward line that is as fearsome as PSG's, as fearsome as Manchester City's. That's the next stage. And look, if Arteta and Berta can crack that, then, you know, it's bad news for everybody else.
- [27:57]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, we spoke about 1 nil to the Arsenal. Arsenal. 810 wins in the Premier League this season, the most in a season since 1998 and 99 season. I just wondered what kind of effect that's also had on the fans. Because we talk about walking this tightrope of belief. Adrian, some of the results haven't been so convincing. Solid defense, not necessarily that solid up front. Do you think that has helped or dare I say, hindered the feeling of belief at times as well?
- [28:25]
Adrian Clarke
Oh, yeah, look, it's been torturous.
- [28:28]
Ayo Akimolere
I just wanted you to say it like.
- [28:29]
David Ornstein
Because it's true.
- [28:30]
Ayo Akimolere
Like, you know, watching it has been hard. It has been hard.
- [28:33]
Adrian Clarke
I cannot pretend that I've enjoyed every minute of every game this season. I mean, the Burnley game in midweek, ultimately, the game that kind of got us over the line. I hated the entirety of that second half because Arsenal stopped playing. You know, Arsenal's players were consumed by apprehension, fear of blowing it. And even though Burnley didn't have a shot on target, we stopped playing. And we did see that a fair bit over the course of the campaign. So hopefully winning the title will just free everyone up a little bit and relax them. They've climbed to the top of the mountain now. They know what it takes and maybe they'll relax into it next year and maybe release some shackles as they look to sort of take it to the next level. One other stat that I did want to drop in before we move on completely from it was Arsenal's running stats. I don't know if you're aware of this, but Arsenal outran their opposition in 35 of 37 Premier League matches this season.
- [29:32]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:33]
Adrian Clarke
I mean, no one else comes close to that. Just put it into context. Chelsea at the bottom end outran their opponents once in 37 games. Now, I'm not saying that if you run more than the opposition, it makes you a great team. There's a lot more to it, but it does give you an indication of how the collective really did come together for this team. It's, it's, it's. It's those runs to support a teammate, those runs to cover the center back if he's been drawn out wide. It's, it's those little things that Arsenal have now got inbuilt. And, and when Arteta sat in that first press conference, said he's going to Raise the standards. Okay. You know, standards is a word that he was used a lot. Boy, has he raised those standards. Because the Arsenal team that he inherited wouldn't have outran many opponents. Let me tell you.
- [30:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Imagine Ozil trying to outrun everyone. Yeah, completely understand it. David.
- [30:26]
David Ornstein
I was just going to pick up on some of Adrian's points quickly. The standards, discipline. I mean Arsenal were known for red cards under Arteta and actually historically, I can vividly recall a controversy in the 98. 9 season when they had like Vieira and Petit sent off in the opening matches after their title defense. It's been a theme running through that club it seems last season with, with Rice, maybe it was unfortunate, Trossard and various other moments that. That seems to have really sorted itself out. And there'll be people listening to this who say that they've benefited from fortuitous decisions, but I think generally they've cleaned their act up. They've become more street wise and that has helped them significantly. Adrian talked about maybe the. This title relaxing them. I think that is a really key question that people are going to be observing going forward. From the information I have, this is not Spygate or anything. Speaking to people at and around the club. This was their hardest season internally. I think there was a lot of fear and anxiety and nervousness and trepidation over whether it was going to happen again, especially when they, they had those blips and Michael Arteta is intense, he demands a lot and they will look back and reflect and I think they are assessing how they can improve things, say medically and so on. Don't forget when they went on a warm weather training camp to Dubai and Kai Havertz tore his hamstring when they were really meant to be relaxing, I thought, and end up having surgery was out for the rest of the season. That probably cost Arsenal last season. They've had a lot of injuries again this time round. Thankfully for them they've had the depth. So. So there are things to pick over in that sense. But having come through what people are describing to me as the most horrible, tense, tough season that they've experienced in the Arteta era, do they release the shackles somewhat? Do we start to see a slightly more expansive style of football? Because they've got some incredible weapons there and some people think Arteta is too cautious and. And he's instructing them from the touchline like it's a computer game, telling them where to pass and move and suggestions. He's telling them to go backwards. I don't think we're particularly knowledgeable on that. I think we say a lot of what we see and extrapolate to form judgments. However, Adrian's bought some of the stats to the foil there. Arsenal's attacking unit has not been as effective as they would like, nor has it been effective as some of their rivals at the top end of Premier League and European football. And it's not been nearly as effective as some of the Arsenal teams we've seen in the past previous incarnations. And so that area of the field is going to be surely of high focus for them going forward.
- [33:31]
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- [34:01]
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- [34:20]
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- [34:44]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamolere.
- [34:49]
Ayo Akimolere
If we talk about going forward, Adrian, you know Arsenal fans can obviously celebrate now, but you know attention will turn to the Champions League next Saturday versus psg. And when you're talking about attacking lineups, goodness me, it's probably the best in the world at this moment in time. Now that sort of the title is off the shoulders of Arsenal and the fans, I guess it's just focus, enjoy. Go into that hoping that you can cause an upset, but surely with a bit of belief as well.
- [35:18]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, this is cherry on the cake, isn't it? The pressure is. The pressure is gone. The Premier League had to be won. The Champions League we would love to win. And of course if Arsenal do win the Champions League, they will be immortalized as as the probably the greatest Arsenal team in the club's history. It would certainly be the most successful season in the club's history. If we were to do that unbelievable double. Yet they're more than capable. Obviously having the palace game now as a dead rubber is a big, big benefit, isn't it? Because the pack can be shuffled. He will protect and wrap up certain players in, in cotton wool and they'll have longer, you know, they don't really need to go into great detail about planning for palace now. They can start to plan already for, for psg. And, and let's be honest, even though the Shackles might be released, you know, in terms of next season for this Champions League final, Arsenal, no, they're not stupid. They know that they can't afford to release the Shackles in Budapest. If it's a PSG Bayern type game, which there's no chance of it being, then PSG will retain their crown. We all know that. Arsenal are going to have to grind it out. That's the only way I think that we can win that game. But we can absolutely do it because it is the best defensive unit around and PSG will not enjoy playing against Arsenal. And I think if Arsenal were to score first, it could be, you know, it could be on, certainly with, with Arsenal's front running record, with the clean sheet mentality that's, that's fostered there. Yeah, it wouldn't be the shock of the century, in my opinion, for Arsenal to, to beat PSG in Budapest. I think they're more than capable of doing it. So, yeah, bring it on. It's, it's a very, very exciting period. And if Arsenal do go down and they lose that game, trust me, that parade on the following day, on the Sunday will still be, you know, the, probably the largest parade, you know, Islington's ever seen.
- [37:20]
Ayo Akimolere
David, I was speaking to Sol Campbell recently and I said, look, you guys were the last real hope really for a while for Arsenal to, to lift the Champions League. You remember how stacked that team was with the Henry's, the Gibert, everyone. It was superb, right? They were good to go and they didn't do it. And now you have a similar situation 20 years later and you're looking at a very different squad of a. With a very different makeup. I mean, for history, for this Arsenal team, this could immortalize them being Champions League winners and Premier League winners in the same season.
- [37:54]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it would. Without a shadow of a doubt. Arsenal don't have a storied European history. They won the Cup Winners cup, they lost a UEFA cup final. They obviously got to the Europa League final. I was there in Baku when they were beaten by a Chelsea team who had already won what they needed to win and qualified for the following season's Champions League. That was really disappointing. Andu ny Emery and in in the Champions League it was just 2006. I was there in Paris as well. They should have won against Barcelona. Thierry Henry went through on goal to put them 2 nil up despite the loss of Jens Lehman to a red card. And. And they ended up being stung at the end. It was Eto' o and Belletti. I think that was a horrible rainy night. And following day for anyone that was still in Paris the day after that was a real missed opportunity. And I don't think Arsenal imagined at that point it would take them so long to get back. But they came through this Champions League campaign faultlessly. Eight out of eight in the group stage. They were the best team and anybody saying they got a fortuitous draw especially when you look at what Liverpool ended up with last season having also topped the group stage should take nothing away from the fact that Arsenal put themselves in in the mix to to get that draw. And. And they dealt with the challenges that were put in front of them. Now will be obviously the true test. They faced a side that I thought they should have beaten in last year's semi final. I was there in the Parc des Prince and they had more than enough chances. It was an amazing save by Donnarumma from Odegaard. There was the Martinelli chance which he nearly scrambled over the line. Declan Rice should have hit the target with a header. Bukayo Saka missed an open goal on the stretch. Yeah. Arsenal had a bit of fortune with the penalty you could say and some other chances for psg. But they went toe to toe is what I'm saying. With the most talented team in the world. And I think PSG go in as favorites. I think they are definitely the better football team. But there's no doubt that Arsenal can win this final and I think they will go in with confidence high and I would definitely not write them off. I don't think it will be a heavy defeat if they do lose. I think it would be narrow. But they're absolutely in with a shout at rewriting the record books.
- [40:02]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, they've definitely got a chance. I was just thinking about last season's tie. Obviously the first they didn't go to plan in the semi final against psg and it put Arsenal in a really difficult position. Being one down. Had to go and chase it at the Parc des Prince and play a Higher line. And that's where they got picked off a little bit by psg. But as you rightly pointed out, created a lot of chances by being assertive, by being aggressive, front footed. We, we did cause problems, but my main point here is we did that with an unbelievably patched up team. A, A squad, a match day squad that won't be, you know, it's chalk and cheese with what we'll have in Budapest. You know, there was no Gabrielle last season. Kivior played, you know, Parte was in, was in the midfield. You had Marino up front. You know, there's no Havertz, there's no Yokker is obviously then. Yeah, it was. And the bench, you know, there's only really three players he could bring on that night. Ben White came on, I think Calafiri came on and Trossard, you look at the rest of the bench and they're players that he really couldn't put on. And that will be different this time around. And so yeah, I think Arsenal have a fighting chance. Yeah, PSG worthy favorites. But I think Arsenal can make this more than competitive and I can't wait for the game. For Arsenal to even be in a Champions League final is exciting enough, but the prospect of winning it and taking us to that next level, the next stratosphere, it's possible. You know, that really does whet the appetite. You think the celebrations were big in the last 24 hours. If Arsenal winning Budapest, it will take it to the next level.
- [41:43]
David Ornstein
That was also in the height of Arsenal's sort of run into the season. Fixtures were coming thick and fast. As you say, they were depleted. But remember that, you know, this is a team that's gone to the burnabout and beaten Real Madrid knocked them out in the quarterfinals last season. They've won in the San Siro against Inter Milan. They've pushed PSG with a depleted side. They will now, despite me talking about PSG being fresh and benefiting from the schedule in France. But Arsenal now have a week and a half essentially to get themselves ready. Crystal palace will be doing the same for their European final. I mean it's got the potential to be the most in season pre season game you've ever come across. But yeah, the ingredients are there for, for Arsenal to really cause some damage. So it may actually be a tighter, more competitive game than many imagine.
- [42:40]
Ayo Akimolere
So Arsenal face PSG next Saturday, but in the meantime, can you believe it? Arsenal are Premier League champions. Cheers for joining us, gents. David Adrian and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.
- [42:55]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Joe Beal, with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is A.D. moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic Athletic wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
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