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- [00:01]
Advertiser
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- [00:49]
Jack Pitbrook
But I was also raised to believe in retribution.
- [00:53]
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- [01:38]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. After a week in which they were dumped out of the Champions League and given a dose of reality by Liverpool, Manchester City got back to winning ways.
- [01:49]
Advertiser
Sitting into the penalty area again. Haaland. It's a tap in Manchester City. Run it through as Haaland passes to the back of the net.
- [01:59]
Ayo Akimwaleere
So with Haaland back from injury and then new recruits bedding in, is the City rebuild not as big a job as we thought it might be? Here with us today we have two men who are at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium for Manchester City's one nil win over Spurs. Our Manchester City correspondent Sam Lee and Jack Pit Brook as well. Sam City's last visit to spurs in the League cup in October began a run of what, 14 defeats in their last 27 games in all competitions prior to Wednesday night. How significant was it? Get back to winning ways and I guess show doses of the Manchester City we know and love.
- [02:38]
Advertiser
Yeah, like you say it is doses like it's baby steps. It does look like this regeneration is happening already it's not perfect obviously and we could easily be here talking about City but in the context of them conceding one or two second half goals. But I think because there was so much positivity in the first half and I think just because it looks so fresh like at the weekend against Liverpool, that was the joint youngest City team of like the Guardiola era. And it was only about a month ago Guardiola about how the team were playing in terms of conceding so many counterattacks but could still, you know, generate danger through Haaland. And he said we are an old team. So Kevin 34, Gundo 33 and Matteo the same and we don't have replacements so play a lot of minutes. So that's why it's so grateful for Gundo there for as Don and Kova and of course Kevin to come back as possible. That is a reality. And that's why Emily is scared, you know, to play these transitional games against Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Brighton. They are miles are well better than us now. Like I say, they had the youngest team at the weekend and last night, you know, Savinho's 20, Doku's 22, Haaland's still young and with his contract he's going to be like at the spearhead of it. Like Marmouche is 25 but obviously he's not old. Nico Gonzalez 23, Kusunov 20, Gardiol 23. It's suddenly a very young vibrant team again and it isn't perfect. They might not have won last night but they are getting there. And then in terms of the result, Arsenal and Forest drawing, Newcastle losing, City winning. It's like when City beat Newcastle 10 days ago. Other teams were dropping points as well. Chelsea lost that weekend. It's like. Yeah, it was important for them to win for sure.
- [04:17]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah Jack, spurs fans love the fact that you know, they're one of the few teams historically recently anyway to have Guardiola's number. You know, spurs have beaten Man City twice this season prior to Wednesday night and almost got something out of that game as well actually. Was it more spurs failed to capitalize on their chances or you know, as I said just now we see sort of Manchester City or glimpses of City getting back to their former selves.
- [04:40]
Jack Pitbrook
Bit of both. I thought the spurs tried to do what they did in the League cup game which was to start really fast but they couldn't really, I mean they couldn't really sustain that pressure at the start I thought. And frankly like City should have been Three or four up at half time. Second half was a completely different game. And you did see like the extra benefit of Tottenham's energy and physicality in that second half, which is really what I was expecting the first half to be like. As Sam said, like, spurs certainly created enough in that second half to get something from the game. Like it wouldn't have been, I wouldn't have been that surprised really, if spurs had won the game two one, for example, given the chances they did have in the second half. So I maybe wouldn't read too much into the final outcome, but I certainly agree with Sam's point that the City, City played with more sort of stability and organization that first half than I was expecting them to.
- [05:28]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, let's talk about sort of being knocked out of that Champions League, Sam, by Real Madrid. You know, you described Haaland and you just said it there as sort of the figurehead of this new gener generation at Manchester City. Now he's only weeks into what that big bumper nine year contract deal, but his importance is as strong as ever. And I guess when the team is fragile, he's often the one that you sort of see trying to get something out of it.
- [05:52]
Advertiser
Yeah, I think he's more important than ever now. I think City at their strongest don't necessarily need him. Obviously, he's a big benefit to have, a huge benefit to have. Like, just look at all the goals and the threat, you know, the threat that he poses means that opposition defenders, they've got to respect it. They got to double up on him, they've got to drop off, you know, whatever it is, they've got to respect it. But when City is strong, you know, going back to that treble season, when you've got Prime Gundogan, prime Bernardo, prime De Bruyne, Rodri Grealish at his best, Mahrez Foden, goals coming from everywhere and people who can control the game and make a difference. This year, when there's like none of that, all of those players I've just mentioned, they're either gone or like not playing or nowhere near their best. So we talked about that Madrid game last week. When you see Haaland's not in the team, forget it, forget it. They had nothing. They had absolutely nothing. Because at least when Haaland's there, it's like, okay, that Bruges game I talked about when I asked Pep the question, that was just after the Chelsea game and they say he went behind in both of those games and they had problems with the counterattack to different extents, but they could still just go long over the top when they're pressed. And Haaland is just that threat and they can still generate that. That danger because he's there. So, yeah, it is a strange one, but I feel like now he's more important than ever because he just gives them so many threats at a time when they don't have a lot of other threats. And, you know, Savinho and Doku are really vibrant and dangerous and like Mahmouche as well. But as we saw against Liverpool at the weekend, there's not always an end product there. And Obviously Haaland is Mr. End Product. So, yeah, at the moment he's the one. And, yeah, he does. You can see sometimes he's jeeing people up, he's nodding away corners at the near post, but sometimes it does work the other way if it's not going well. His body language isn't always great, but you're right, like there are times when he's g everybody up as well.
- [07:35]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, Jack, that makes a really interesting point about him being Mr. End Product. But I guess also he needs the supply. So, you know, when City are working really well, Haaland is that focal point, who gives them that end product. But, you know, beyond that, you can't underestimate his importance. I mean, yet again, I mean, I can't tell you how many goals he scored this season, to say the least. This is one player Manchester City can really pin their attack on.
- [07:59]
Jack Pitbrook
Yeah, but I think one thing that stood out to me yesterday was because they had the pace of Mamushu runs in behind Doku and Savinho, who are both like very, very attacking wide wingers. It actually meant that there wasn't quite so much reliance on Harlan to kind of get in the box all the time. So we saw Harland come short an awful lot of time, you know, hold the ball up, get other people into play because he knew he had that movement beyond him. So, I mean, Sam will be able to talk about this better than me, but it seems to me like if you have the wingers and Marmouch in there as well, there probably is a little bit less reliance on Haaland to always be the guy who finishes things off, even though that is obviously what he's very good at.
- [08:39]
Advertiser
Yeah.
- [08:39]
Ayo Akimwaleere
What do you reckon, Sam?
- [08:40]
Advertiser
Yeah, they need that, like the physical presence. I thought there were so many times, especially in the first half yesterday when City were breaking through spurs or at least could have, that ball was dropping in the middle and it came down to like a second ball or a duel or something. You think if they're just a bit stronger there, they'll have even more opportunities to turn Tottenham and go and it's like having Haaland in there to drop deep and be the man for the duel is a better option than the other guys who aren't the most physical players. They're not the most likely to do that. So even just having him there in the mix might mean that even if he gets a toe on it while he's under pressure and it goes to Mahmouch, who's in that kind of half space and he's got Savinho up the line waiting for it, you know there's going to be a big benefit there because yeah, he again, he brings something to the team that the other forwards around him at the moment don't have.
- [09:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Okay, well, next we'll get into Manchester City's rebuild and work out if it's a case of revolution or evolution. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamulere. I can say to my new Samsung.
- [09:39]
Advertiser
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- [09:42]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a.
- [09:46]
Advertiser
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- [09:54]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Credit.
- [09:55]
Advertiser
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- [10:00]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Can do you get yours@samsung.com compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account Results may vary based on input.
- [10:06]
Advertiser
Check responses for accuracy. This is an ad from BetterHelp Online Therapy. We always hear about the red flags to avoid in relationships, but it's just as important to focus on the green flags if you're not quite sure what they look like. Therapy can help you identify those qualities so you can embody the green flag energy and find it in others. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online and sign up only takes a few minutes. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. We have a young, young team. So the three up front is the future. Nico, when Rodri come back will be the future. And of course Kusanov, you are seen it today. And Joskar young.
- [11:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, I mean that was Pep Guardiola talking about the future of Manchester City. You know, I think we've spoken about this on this podcast, Sam, and maybe you were saying, you know, who knows how long it's going to take. But this rebuild, I mean they seem to be getting players in especially at a point in which they need them. Sometimes starting these players a little earlier than they naturally would, you know, how drastic do you think it is? Is it a rebuild right now or have we seen a large proportion of it already and now we're looking ahead into next season to see how they click together.
- [11:53]
Advertiser
Well, yeah, they definitely have taken steps towards it by buying, you know, they bought four players for the first team in January, but Vito Hais, the Brazilian center back, you know, he's not quite developed enough physically just to be ready for the Premier League. And Kusanov, in terms of his all round game, he is still a bit rough around the edges and he's obviously been thrown in because there's been so many injuries in the defence. But one point that's worth making just on him is I think people need to get over the. He had a horror show against Chelsea.
- [12:18]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I'm not the Chelsea one.
- [12:19]
Advertiser
Yeah, it was terrible, right? It was one of the worst debuts. Can't hide from that.
- [12:23]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, but what a game to put a young kid into.
- [12:25]
Advertiser
I mean, well, again there's no way, there's no way. There's no way he would have played that game if. But City, I can't remember the. I can't remember the exact centre back injury list that game, but he was like one of two centre backs fit. So it was like, well, it has to be him. But people need to get that out of their minds now. And look at him. Don't look at him through the kind of prism of, oh, I'm not sure about this guy. He was shocking in that game. Looking through the prism of this guy is actually decent. And I think you'll realize that he's a good player. He's made the biggest impact of the three that have played so far because obviously Marmouche's got good headlines because of the hat trick against Newcastle. But in the other games he's not shown that kind of threat. And Nico Gonzalez was great against Newcastle, but also like last night, it was a little Bit flakier than you'd probably hope for a midfield reinforcement. But yes, like you say, the impact's already started, it's already been made. We're just waiting to see how they bed in and then into next season. But in terms of how much work still needs to be done, it's interesting because on the one hand, like, if De Bruyne goes, Gundogan's got a clause in his contract where if he plays, I think it's 45 minutes or more in 50% of the matches, he'll get an automatic extension. And I presume the thinking there was, if he plays all these matches, then it'll be because he's doing really well and it'll be great to keep him. But it's been the worst of both worlds, really. He's been playing all his matches because he's had to and he's not done well at all. And they might have to keep him. But let's say if he goes, maybe I think they should keep Bernardo Silva, but let's say this is the summer, ironically, when Bernardo can actually get a move and he leaves. Edison might leave because he wanted to last summer, but couldn't. Walker's obviously going to go and then maybe Stones, because he's just so injured all the time and he's a great player, but he's just so injured all the time and grealish because he barely hasn't. He basically not really made an impact since the Treble. You can't keep guys like that that you can't rely on in the squad. So in terms of how big's the rebuild going to be, it's still got to be big because you can't lose all those legends in one go. But it is interesting because Guardiola's talked about having a big squad and he actually said before the spurs game he wants to keep as many of the players at the club as possible, which if you're going to bloat the squad and make it 20 top players rather than the 15 he likes and, you know, maybe Stones expectations are, well, okay, I'm going to stay, but I'm only going to play 25 games. Maybe that works, but I feel like they just need to rip the band aid off at this point. They need to do the big overhaul that probably could have come in either of the two summer transfer windows after the Treble. I think they do need to make a big adaptation and then with the impact of the club World cup, which means they won't have a preseason and like it's delayed start to the Premier League and a load of new signings. You know, next season might not be ideal either, but they definitely got the ball rolling on the. On the revolution.
- [14:52]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. How delicate is it, Jack, to. To have all these legends, as Sam's just said, leave and then try and bed in these new players for a team that is well known to be operating at the top level, I mean, do. Do City fans just basically hold their breath for a minute and think next season might not be as great as they want it to be?
- [15:10]
Jack Pitbrook
Yeah. It strikes me from the outside that City have basically stuck with the team that they built in roughly sort of 2017, really Guardiola's second summer for longer than anybody would have expected. You know, the title last season was obviously built on the contributions of players who've been there since the start, almost since the start of the Guardiola era. You know, Walker, de Bruyne, Edison Stones, those guys have been there a long. Bernardo Silva, all of whom have been there a really long time. And actually the players they brought, brought in, I think, in the last sort of five years, haven't, with the exception of Harland, has obviously been brilliant and, you know, the country's done pretty well. Like, those guys haven't really contributed quite enough. So it strikes me that the. They've delayed the. The kind of dismantling of the team they put together in 20, 2017 for longer than anybody would have expected at the time. And it's only now, this summer, I think, based on what Sam says, that. That it is time to say goodbye to a lot of those players. Like, obviously Walker has already gone. There's big question marks, as Sam says, over De Bruyne, Edison, Stones, Bernardo, lots of those players. And so it's almost like because they've delayed that dismantling and that rebuild, it's probably going to have to be more dramatic than if it were a bit more sort of phased as they might have intended in the first place.
- [16:32]
Advertiser
Yeah.
- [16:32]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Sam, the missing piece obviously is Rodri. I know how important he is as a player. He's just come off. He'll be coming off a reed really long layoff for sure. So he's not necessarily going to hit the ground running. I don't know. I'm just looking at it from purely practical terms. It's not just about sticking Rodri in the team and then hoping everything's going to work out okay. I mean, they're going to have to hold their breath for a little bit and just see how this team Work together.
- [16:56]
Advertiser
Yeah, for sure. And it's going to be interesting for us, well, for fans and for us in the media to kind of pitch how well or not they're doing. You know, if it gets to October, November next season and they're five or six points off, first of all, that'd be fairly normal. Apart from this season, they'd always kind of have that slow start and then pick it up at the end. But we just have to be like, okay, like, where is this team? Are they bedding in? But also you'd have to look at the competition like this season. It's funny because the last few years all you ever hear is, oh, it's a boring title race because people are just annoyed that City are going to win it again because it seems so inevitable. But this is genuinely a boring title race. It's done. Like, wouldn't it genuinely be better if City were in it and you didn't know if it was going to be City or Liverpool? Okay. People always say they know it's going to be City, but next year, you know, if Liverpool are having. Liverpool have been good. They've lost one game all season. Obviously they had a couple of draws recently, but Arsenal have just dropped even more points. But next season City might not have to be at the very top to win the league again because, you know, this isn't like a super rampaging like Klopp Liverpool, that would be threatening 100 points. Maybe they get close this year to be fair. But another thing they would have to do then is try and defend it. And that's obviously not something that they could do under Klopp. Sometimes they had a big drop off and you know, with Arsenal it's like, it's like me going into next season from John Stones point of view saying, are you confident John Stones is going to play 90% of the matches this season? He just couldn't be. Are you confident that Arsenal will win the League next year? You couldn't be confident about it because if they don't do it this year, then obviously that'll be three where they've fallen short. So the competition might not be that strong next year. So that might offer City a bit of a platform as well. Even if they, they don't hit the ground running, as you say.
- [18:31]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, Jack. Two players that have caught my eye recently are Savino and Jeremy Doku. And you know, they're putting a really decent performance at moments in both the Liverpool game and the Tottenham game. I mean, dribbling a lot. I think Doku's dribble execution is probably better than Savinho's, but how difficult is it to expect them to leap forward, you know, and produce those goals and produce those end products? A bit like Mahrez. But then I look at Mahrez when he came to Manchester City, you know, that's. This is a guy that had won the Premier League and they got him, what, at the age of 27. So he definitely had miles under his belt. Is it yet another one where we're looking at? You've got these young players, just hold out, they'll come good under the guidance of Pep Guardiola, but for right now, they're probably not at the output that we would like to like to see them on.
- [19:14]
Jack Pitbrook
I thought Docu was amazing yesterday. Like, he was so good. He had Poirot on absolute toast. You know, obviously this is coming off the back of doing pretty well against Alexander Arnold the week before. So I was really, really impressed with him. Clearly he is very inconsistent and he doesn't play that well every week. Savinho, I think, is very talented. Maybe a bit more of a work in progress like his. His final ball execution wasn't really there at all, I thought last night. But yeah, I mean, they're both very talented players. It'll be interesting to see if they are, you know, if he wants to go with those two starting regularly next season, if he's going to go to that kind of two wide wingers model. I think a lot of City fans will look back to back in the sort of early days of Guardiola at City, when they had Sane and Sterling on the wing. And I don't think City have ever really beat in terms of attacking football. I think that was probably the best we've seen. The sort of sane, Sterling era was probably the best level we've seen. I don't know what you think, Sam, in terms of how well City can play. I don't think that Docu and Savino are on that level at the moment, although it might be that within another year or two development, City could head back in that direction again.
- [20:22]
Advertiser
I mean, I'm sure, you know, if you were to ask City fans, I think it's the most beloved team still in terms of playing style because they could be so direct and teams. But teams are leaving more spaces against them in a way that doesn't happen too much now unless teams are leaving the spaces in a different way because they're pressing man to man, which allows City just to go long over the top to haaland in terms of, I don't know, the best City team or the most complete or most dangerous. It's obviously the treble season is going to be up there. I think it was the false nine season. I think they were so complete and so dangerous and they were so close to winning the. I say close. They were close to winning the treble the year before they did, they got Liverpool in the FA cup semi final, whereas the year after they got Sheffield United. So that was an easier game after a big difficult Champions League game. So they got a bit of luck with the draw and then they lost to Real Madrid in that crazy late turnaround. Like that team before they won the Treble was amazingly good in a completely different way to that sterling and sane team. But with Savinho and Doku they've maybe taken taking a bit of a step more towards that. Again with that more direct wing play and the threat from outward.
- [21:22]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking about this forward line that could potentially be the future of Svatiti Doku, Haaland, Mamouch, Savinho. How would you compare him? I guess the sample size is quite small really in comparison to the players we've just spoken to. But do we see this as what Guardiola sees as his forward line of attackers that can cause the most damage in the Premier League or is it still yet again a work in progress?
- [21:45]
Advertiser
Well, I think what's kind of characterized the season is there's just in terms of Guardiola's options, there's. So he's still got options he can use. Like last night we saw when spurs bring on four subs, Spence Sar, Son, Kulusevski. They completely change the dynamic of the game and it's like, okay, Guardiola needs to change something, but who and what and why? City don't have any player like that. I suppose de Bruyne, but if you've seen de Bruyne recently, you could never in good conscience call for it to come on and help City and that. That in that situation. So you, you bring on Bernardo Silva who's going to help him keep the ball. But he's not been the best Bernardo Silva this season by any means. And you bring on Phil Foden who's been really struggling recently and it's kind of like there are options, Daku and Savinho right now that they're both fit because they've had little injuries throughout the season, especially Doku, they are the best solution on the wings because Foden's not Playing well. Grealish just isn't there. So they are the best options. Are they the super best options? Are they going to give you the. The output of. Not the output, but, you know, Grealish's consistency when he was in the team. Mahrez is. You know, how we remember Mahrez. Clutch goals, you know, coming on as a sub, coming from the start, or going back to the kind of the Golden Sheen era of like Sterling and Sane. Are those two wingers like that at the moment? Right now, no, but, like, we're. We're comparing like the present young players still kind of growing with like our best memories of, you know, previous players. And the past is always going to win in those scenarios. But. But right now because of various different problems with other options. Yeah, that is the most threatening forward line. And Mahmouche as well, even though he scored a hat trick in one of the games and not a lot of end product in the others, but because of his vibrancy and because it's something different. It's not perfect, but it's just different to December when it just felt like they were doing the same thing over and over again with Bernardo Kovacic and Gundogan and De Bruyne just been running to the ground. So, yeah, at least it's vibrant. It's still not perfect, but it's better.
- [23:37]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. Jack, what do you think of City's business of recent. I want to talk about obviously, how long it's going to take them to get back to the top, but, I mean, there are some really exciting players coming through, few quite raw, but I think City fans should be quite excited by what they're trying to rebuild here, surely.
- [23:53]
Jack Pitbrook
Yeah, I think so. I think I get the impression that in the. In the window just gone. They've basically done a lot of the business that they probably should have done over the last maybe two years. You know, they need another good young centre back and they have that in Kusanov they needed. I think they probably needed another number nine and they've done that in Mamouche. They certainly need another body in central midfield. I think they've got that in Gonzalez, who's looked better than I thought he would. So, yeah, that business is good. It feels like for the first time in a while, the squad is probably moving in the right direction again. You know, they really got every last morsel out of the, you know, the old squad, but that had run its course, so they did need to refresh and, you know, based on what we saw yesterday, it's you know, certainly you wouldn't say this is like a ready to go team. Like, I think they probably do need a bit more work and a bit more development. But it is like a team which is developing and progressing, you could say, you know, whereas a lot of. A lot of what we've seen from City in the last few months is a team which has kind of run out of steam.
- [24:58]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Okay, well, next we'll assess City's style of play and whether Pep Guardiola will compromise on his principles.
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Jack Pitbrook
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Jack Pitbrook
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Jack Pitbrook
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Jack Pitbrook
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Ayo Akimwaleere
To you by Lifelock.
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Ayo Akimwaleere
To a lot of places, between payroll.
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- [26:21]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Lutz Sow Cow.
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Advertiser
That's Axel Loop. Lutz Sow Cow. This one's like medium hard. The answer is figure skating jumps. Now, what if I gave you 16 different terms and you figure out how they come together into four different groups?
- [26:40]
Ayo Akimwaleere
If you're up for the challenge, you'll.
- [26:42]
Advertiser
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- [27:03]
Ayo Akimwaleere
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Acamolera.
- [27:08]
Jack Pitbrook
You think you should have won that game, William?
- [27:10]
Advertiser
It should have been over by half time. Did you feel the first half was a bit like Old City. And the second half never will be. This is on the Old City. Old City was too good, but we'll be back.
- [27:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, that's Pep Guardiola with a warning there for the rest of the Premier League. We will be back. He says, yes. Sam Guardiola's side haven't been this far off the pace since five seasons ago. What, 2019, 2020. That was seen as a previous low point in his reign. Can comparisons be made to now compared to then, for instance? Because he says his team will be back and he does like a bit of adversity and likes to fight against.
- [27:49]
Advertiser
Oh, yeah, in that sense. I mean, in terms of comparison to that season, it was the low point because it was like they'd win three out of four games, but then the fourth game, they'd play like spurs and just get done on the break because they're a bit fragile. But they still got. They scored more than 100 goals, and I think Liverpool got 85. And Liverpool obviously won the league, and they were great. But City scored 100 goals and they got the most clean sheets, so there was still something there. Whereas this season has basically been a disaster up until these green shoots now, so. So there's not the same parallels there, but in terms of Guardiola being the man to say, yeah, I'm going to get them out of it. He did an interview around the time he signed his new contract in November with, like, a Spanish chef. Like, yeah, we can't get name for love. No money, but a Spanish chef. Crack on. But he basically described being addicted to the job. He kind of acknowledged it's not good for him, but he can't let it go. And it's like, why else would he still be here? He could have left at so many points. Obviously, the most obvious one, after the Treble, you win the Champions League, it's done. See you later. And I think people on his staff, people close to him have thought, come on, we've done our job here. But Pep's like, no, we keep going after four in a row. You stay after the Treble, you do another year, you win Premier League, do you go then? No. There was still doubts going into this season, maybe he would. And he's decided, no, the team's struggling. I'm gonna. I'm gonna put us back at the top. Yeah, he is addicted to it. And it's hard to see when he's ever gonna leave. Maybe he's obviously not gonna do like, a Ferguson and do that 25 years, but it is Hard to see him when it's, is it going to ever get bad enough or good enough that he goes, actually, this is enough, because he's just motivated by the next challenge, whatever it is. And, like, now the challenge is obviously to get them back at the top, whereas before it's been to keep them at the top. And they both motivate him seemingly just the same.
- [29:23]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, Jack, it can't be denied, look, that Pep Guardiola has transformed English football. It's time at City, but, you know, the pace is changing. I mean, that style of football, I didn't say it's aged because it's just. I think he hasn't got the personnel he wants right now. But, you know, like, by the time he gets this rebuild back into shape, is there a chance that the league's moved on? More teams have invested in their style of football, newer coaches are coming in. I mean, we keep talking about what that top six look like. There's some really interesting coaches now with very different tactical approaches to matches.
- [29:56]
Jack Pitbrook
So Guardiola gave a really interesting interview on TV a while ago where he talked about how he kind of suggested that he thinks that other teams in the Premier League might have a more modern style of play than him. And obviously where, you know, nobody would have said that when he came in, it felt like Guardiola was very much the sort of tactical, cutting edge he pointed. I can't remember exactly which teams, but he certainly pointed to Bournemouth, who have. Where Iriola's football is much less positional, I'd say much more. Probably more. More dynamic, more to do with kind of attacking the space in front of you. And I do wonder whether. I mean, this is kind of the big question, isn't it? It's. Is Guardiola's football with new players, is that going to be cutting edge, or is it the ideas rather than the players that are outmoded? I guess. And that's. To me, this is probably one of the big questions, which we'll learn in the next two years of Guardiola's contract, is that, you know, can his ideas still look fresh if they are implemented by a new generation of players?
- [30:53]
Advertiser
For me, I think it's very clear. I've seen this debate. You know, there was something on the overlap. There was something on the BBC Sport website, this idea that all the teams are doing this, Pep's team are doing this. You know, the other teams are much more direct, they're more dynamic. Pep's team are slow, they like to have the ball. This has always been the case. This is how they win the title. I don't think the approach is outdated. They're not able to effectively deploy it like they have for all the reasons we've talked about all season. You know, Roger being out that old team, that just the sheer amount of injuries in defense, you know, the kind of low output of the wingers, even the goalkeepers have been less reliable than they have in recent years. So the four main positions on the pitch, they've had problems in. So is it the style or is it because no style would work if you've got those problems? I think it's that. But I actually, I asked Guardiola about this the other day. I said to him, you did this interview a few months ago, the one Jack's referencing. And I said, look, it's been talked about in the media. It's been suggested the City being left behind. What do you think? And the broad strokes of it was, look, if we had the players, I don't know what would happen, but I'm pretty sure it would be much better. But he also talked about something that I think is missed. When you look at these graphs and you look at the numbers and these teams are fast, this team is slow. The way they've adapted to teams that press the man to man. We saw it in real time during the treble season. At the start of the season, Brighton did it and City were a bit like, what's all this? And then Danny Welbeck got injured. He was injured for ages. So they had the team talk and then they got Edison to play the ball over the top to Haaland. Haaland shrugged off dunk and put it in. And then they played Arsenal in the FA cup and they got better at it again. And then when they played Arsenal in that game, when they won 41 at the Etihad, it was Arsenal again were pressing hard, but City were just able to use that long ball. They were going more direct. And again, we've seen that recently. I've talked about it already today against Chelsea and Club Bruges, when teams allow them spaces. And as we saw last night, City can get through the teams quickly. Yes, Guardiola is always going to want to have more passes, more passes. And I asked him about the problems recently and he said, look, we need longer passing sequences, 25, 30 passes. How many times did we used to do that? How many times have we done it this season? So he's always going to want that. But if you're playing against a team that's going to leave spaces and particularly like space in behind. It would be stupid for Guardiola to say, oh, let's try loads of passes around the back, when actually you can just go direct to Haaland. So they have adapted in some senses. They are more dynamic, I think, than people would give them credit for. But overall, what he's saying and what I believe as well, and I thought would be the answer before he did answer, it was, once this style is working again successfully with you got the players to actually do it, it's going to be fine. It's not like City have got their best players back and other teams are too fast for them. The reason City have been so good for so long is because all the other teams are faster and more dynamic and more physical, but they can control it because they use the ball better. And I think that'll be what happens in the future, as long as they get the players to do the system.
- [33:38]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, Jack. I mean, it's really interesting. This is a coach who's always liked to tweak things. We think about the false nine he created and obviously was successful, that we think about bringing a sense about, like John Stones in to midfield. You know, he's always been a guy that has come up with solutions, isn't he?
- [33:54]
Jack Pitbrook
Yeah. This is such an interesting question to me, isn't it? It's. Can the tweaks and changes that Guardiola has made within his principles, can they sustain his time at the. At the. At the very, very top end of the game? Because the reality is that for most managers that, like, the amount of time that you can spend at the very top of the game is usually, I don't know, 10, maybe 15 years. And there's, you know, we've seen plenty of managers in over the years who've had that time at the top. And then you know, their ideas get moved beyond, you know, Arsene Wenger's a great example. Jose Mourinho is a great example. But there are some managers who manage to kind of adapt and change in such a way that they have a much longer time at the peak. And we kind of don't really know at this point which way Guardiola is going to go. Is he going to be a manager who is so wedded to one particular set of ideas that those ideas become outmoded and taken over? And on that reading, Guardiola's time at the top will be finite. And maybe this is the end of it. You know, maybe the failure of City this season is City's ideas getting. Is Guardiola's ideas getting moved beyond or on a different reading? Is Guardiola sufficiently flexible and imaginative that he can come up with a different way of playing? Which means that he's got another, you know, he's got another five, 10 years left in him at the top end of the game, you know, because you've got to remember, like, his time, his first Champions League win at Barcelona. That was a long time ago now. That was 2009. That was 16 years ago. So he's. He's already kind of bucking the trend, I think, by still being at the top already. And I've got no idea what the answer to this is, but I think it's. This is going to be one of the big questions of the next sort of five years, I think.
- [35:50]
Advertiser
Yeah, I think it's interesting as well because of all these changes. You talk about, like, you know, turning stones into midfielder and everything. I think what people might be listening to this podcast thinking, why have they been so bad for four months? Like, and there's been a lot of City fans saying, like, we'll do something, find a solution. And Jack's saying, do they need to find a way to play in future that's different? But, like, how about a way to play this different now? For example? Like, you might just look at it casually and think, if they can't play with the ball so efficiently. I think I've said this before on a previous podcast when we've talked about City. Like, the old solutions have become the problems, because he sends them out to be aggressive and to press high and to keep the ball. They're putting in the effort, but they haven't got the legs to sustain it. They haven't got the quality to keep the ball as well. So then they're losing the ball more often, they can't win it back as effectively. And then there's problems on the defense. And it's like, well, you can't keep asking them to do the same thing, but then at the same time, because they're so kind of weak and flaky, would you ask them to drop back and play without the ball? Because they did that in patches in games, and they'd let, like, United and Leicester have possession for like, two or three minutes. And it was like, okay, well, let's just be stable. But they weren't especially stable with it either. So it's like, I don't think there's been, like, a perfect solution this season. I think people would say, look, maybe Guardiola should have found something. I think there's been things that have been tried. I just think because of the amount of injuries and, like, those problems I've just mentioned, like, technically and tactically, once you have as many setbacks as you've had, I could probably name like six, like, really, really bruising results. Three all against Feyenoor. That was a draw. The rest have been defeated 51 at Arsenal. Real Madrid game when they lost 3, 2 in the closing stages. PSG, when they were tuned up, losing the derby when they were one nil up with our two minutes to go. Losing four nil to spurs. Losing two nil Anfield, the way they did so many games like that, you just think this team's, like, mentally scarred. So that's what I mean in terms of the new vibrancy and some of these young players, you need these players who kind of don't have those scars. And it might not be perfect, but at least it's something. And, yeah, they're going to try and press. They're going to try and press on with, you know, a thousand million passes, as he calls it.
- [37:44]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Jack. I'm just thinking, if City end up scrambling some glory at the end of the season here, you know, they've got Plymouth in the next round of the FA Cup. You'd like to think they'd win that match. And there's, there's a, there's a high chance that this team can finish top four now they don't have Champions League football to distract them anymore. I mean, this, this, this could actually end in a, in a decent state.
- [38:06]
Jack Pitbrook
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's pretty certain they're going to get Champions League qualifications. Like, it looks to me like they will probably come third in the league. Obviously, you know, fifth is going to be a Champions League spot for this season, so that decreases the chances of them missing out. So I think Champions League, Champions League requalification will be fine and then you just kind of look at the FA cup as a potential trophy for them. It's not, it's not the tournament that City would start the season aiming to prioritize, but maybe if they do manage to win the FA cup or have a, have, have, have a good run in it, it could for a lot of those, you know, for a lot of those players, it will be just another trophy. But for some of the younger players, it could be a big, a big moment in their time at the club.
- [38:49]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. Sam Pep says we'll be back and I. No one knows what that looks like. And I'm sure I'm asking you to look in your, your magic mystical ball and give me an answer right now. But I mean, do we get a sense of when we might start seeing this? You talk about no preseason because of the Club World Cup. I mean this is a long road in my eye.
- [39:09]
Advertiser
Like I said earlier, depending on what Liverpool and Arsenal do, because I don't really see any other team making the leap. I don't see anyone else. Tottenham, United, Chelsea Villa, Newcastle. I don't see them taking the leap to be a challenger. So depending on what those other two teams do, it might not take that much to win the title. But maybe they're not at their best ever city level, but maybe they can still do it. Like I say, it's going to be difficult. Club World cup delays things and then if you've got to replace all those legends that we mentioned earlier, it's not going to be a smooth process. But we talk about that treble season. They only really started playing well in March. They hadn't even started playing well by this point of that season. So as long as they're kind of they're in there, I don't know, maybe the kind of the DNA of the club, even though most of the players would move on, would mean that they can still do that run in city battle mode thing where they just go and beat everybody. But that's something to be discovered whether they can do it to that level. But it wouldn't surprise me if they won the league next year. And in terms of how long Guardiola stays, like I said earlier on, I could see him staying forever. I'm sure they'll win the league again before he leaves.
- [40:10]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yes, Sam. Giving hope to the City fans. I really appreciate you and also Jack, thank you so much for joining us as well. And also thank you guys for listening. Adam Leventhal we'll be back with you guys tomorrow. We'll catch you next time. You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aili Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on.
- [40:33]
Advertiser
Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.
- [40:35]
Ayo Akimwaleere
The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [40:43]
Advertiser
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.