How can England conquer the Azteca?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: How can England conquer the Azteca?
Date: July 4, 2026
Hosts: Adam Leventhal, Keris Jones, Liam Tharm
Guests/Contributors: James Horncastle, Matt Slater, Jack Lang

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Episode Overview

This episode explores England's high-stakes World Cup last-16 match against host nation Mexico at the legendary Estadio Azteca. The discussion ranges from tournament shocks and England’s tactical dilemmas, to the crowd chaos behind the kickoff time confusion, and the unique challenges presented by the Azteca’s altitude and history. The team delivers analysis on Argentina's and Cape Verde's dramatic knockout, how England should prepare for “the mental bomb of the Azteca,” and debate England’s best lineup options for this daunting fixture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Argentina Survives Cape Verde Scare

[04:01 - 10:26]

• James Horncastle reports from Miami: Argentina narrowly avoided elimination, edging Cape Verde in extra time in what he called "one of the nights of the World Cup."

  • "It looked at one stage, particularly in extra time, like one of the great upsets was on the cards. Particularly when Sydney Cabral scored what, for my money, is the goal of the tournament so far." [04:22, James Horncastle]

• Cape Verde's Story:

  • Praised for their organization and courage, setting a new standard for African teams at World Cups.
  • “They have had a great story, haven’t they, Cape Verde? ...I think they will go down as the story of this World Cup. I don’t think anyone expected this from them.” [06:46 / 07:10, Host / Keris Jones]

• Argentina’s Tactical Assessment:

  • Team plays a narrow 4-4-2 focusing on Messi, struggles against organized defenses.
  • “This whole team is built around getting Messi on the ball. ...And when that doesn't work and they come up against a really stubborn defense, they do kind of struggle.” [08:18, Adam Leventhal]
  • Argentina looked fatigued after 120 minutes; concerns for deep tournament fatigue.

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2. Tournament Expansion and African Progress

[10:26 - 11:04]

• Vindication for more African berths:
  • Now nine of ten African teams advanced from groups, evidence of closing quality gap.
  • “I think African football is finally given the number of spots it deserves. ...And Cape Verde are a team that, even by AFCON standards, are kind of more of a growing nation than a major established one. So I think that's a real great success story.” [10:33, Adam Leventhal]

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3. Colombia, Egypt & Other Tournament Stories

[11:04 - 11:57]

• Colombia’s Consistent Under-Radar Progress:
  • Defensive solidity, only one goal conceded, James Rodríguez’s new deeper role, and Daniel Muñoz’s late runs highlighted.

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4. England's Azteca Challenge: Kickoff Confusion & Crowd Tragedy

[13:27 - 18:20]

• Kickoff Mayhem Explained:

  • Confusion due to possible rescheduling (from 1am to 7pm UK time), with Mexican media citing weather, but root cause was crowd safety.
  • After Mexico-Ecuador, a tragic crowd crush killed four at the Angel of Independence, prompting authorities to consider moving the match.
  • Ultimately, kickoff remains unchanged: "What appears to have happened is... conversations started about what can we do to mitigate the risk. ...But we're back to the original plan." [14:04-18:20, Matt Slater]

• Teams’ Reaction:

  • Disruption to preparations, both Mexico and England unhappy but ready to adapt.
  • “Their whole kind of mentality to this I think has been things are going to come up. You have to just roll with the punches...” [18:57, Adam Leventhal]
  • Marcus Rashford: “It doesn’t matter, it’s a game of football at the end of the day.” [19:31, Keris Jones]

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5. The Azteca: Atmosphere, Altitude, and Hostile History

[22:21 - 23:57, 24:25 - 26:52]

• Jack Lang from Mexico City:

  • Azteca’s mythic status: Mexico unbeaten there at World Cups, dominant in home games, raucous atmosphere, and high altitude (~2,200m).
  • “Mexico haven't lost there in well over a decade... A lot of clean sheets in that as well. ...There's the altitude to worry about.... The atmosphere... probably the loudest stadium I've ever been in. ...A lot of factors in Mexico's favor.” [22:21, Jack Lang]

• England’s Preparation & Difficulties:

  • Impossible to fully adapt for a one-off altitude game—balancing recovery from previous games with limited time to acclimatize.
  • “It is really physiologically demanding... You just can’t control for it... Hard thing to compete against.” [24:25-25:55, Adam Leventhal]

• Substitution Strategy:

  • England may need to rely on impact subs with high endurance, rotate fresh legs, and avoid risking fatigued stars.

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6. Dealing with History & the 'Mental Bomb' of Azteca

[27:01 - 28:44]

• Hand of God Legacy:

  • The hosts debate whether the 1986 Maradona incident really impacts today’s players (it doesn’t).
  • “I don't think Maradona is going to kind of haunt them. I think there are a lot of other things that are going to pose them significant challenges.” [27:31, Keris Jones]
  • Younger players unlikely to be influenced by a match before they were born.

• Advice to England:

  • “England need to make this as much as they can, a game of technical quality...quiet the crowd down, turn it from an occasion into a game.” [28:44, Adam Leventhal]

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7. England Team Selection Dilemmas

[30:40 - 38:00]

• Right Back and Wings Debate:

  • Jed Spence’s place questioned due to defensive vulnerabilities, but still praised for his attacking efforts.
  • Wide forwards: Set up to maximize late-game impact; all wide subs have performed well vs tired defenses.
    • “Whoever has come off the bench on the wing has looked a bit stronger. ...Perhaps it is a factor of looking at who do England’s performance team think can cope best with playing 60 minutes at altitude vs 30.” [31:29, Keris Jones]
    • Anthony Gordon praised for fitness, potentially to start for first 60 minutes.
  • Saka could be best kept as an impact sub if not fully fit.

• Declan Rice: Rest or Risk?

  • Debate over whether to rest Rice, who looks fatigued, or stick with established key players.
    • “Thomas Tuchel's job is to pick a team that wins...not a team that the...public...necessarily [are] most thrilled about.” [35:51, Adam Leventhal]
  • Flexibility with midfield and possibility of shuffling fullbacks.

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8. Other Key Fixtures & Predictions

[43:05 - 47:11]

• Canada's Knockout Debut:

  • Facing Morocco, likely underdogs in a physical vs. technical matchup.

• France vs Paraguay:

  • France predicted to cruise thanks to “cohesive attacking identity and belief.”

• Brazil vs Norway:

  • Erling Haaland vs Gabriel highlighted as “juicy battle.”
  • Brazil’s need for a statement win; Norway could force extra time.
  • Hosts predict tight, physical contest.

• Quarterfinal Lookahead:

  • Predictions: “England. Brazil.” [46:56, Keris Jones]

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9. Memorable Quotes & Light Moments

• On England’s Pre-Match Anxiety:

  • “If it goes to penalties, I might…probably won't go to bed. So. Yeah, it's gonna...See, it could be fun.” [03:27, Keris Jones/Adam Leventhal]

• On Cape Verde’s Spirit:

  • “I didn’t feel like they were hanging on. I didn’t feel like they were playing for penalties...They were trying to win the game in the 90 and then they were trying to win it in the 120.” [07:10, Keris Jones]

• On the Azteca Crowd:

  • “Fireworks, fire alarms and worse. There's bags of things being thrown at players...” [29:39, Host/Adam Leventhal referencing Crafton’s piece]

• On Declan Rice Debate:

  • “Our producer Mike has basically just said on the running order, that’s a disgrace.” [36:37]

• Quiz Time:

  • Miroslav Klose scored 71 goals for Germany, with hosts competing but both wildly underestimating the total. [42:07, 42:13]

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10. Notable Timestamps

• [04:22] — Horncastle on Argentina-Cape Verde drama
• [07:10] — Cape Verde as tournament story
• [13:27] — Kickoff chaos explained by Matt Slater
• [22:21] — Jack Lang on the Azteca’s challenges
• [30:40] — England’s selection dilemmas begin in-depth
• [43:05] — Preview of Canada-Morocco, France-Paraguay, Brazil-Norway
• [46:56] — Host predictions for quarterfinal lineup

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an in-depth, richly textured look at one of England’s greatest away-day challenges in living memory. From crowd disasters and logistical nightmares to the cauldron of the Azteca and unprecedented selection headaches, the panel covers every facet fans need to know—with characteristic wit and insight. England supporters can expect a fascinating night: “the mental bomb” of the Azteca awaits, but this podcast leaves no stone unturned in previewing how England (and their rivals) must approach the task.

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Transcript

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[Adam Leventhal]

the Athletic FC.

[Host/Moderator]

Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. So Lionel Messi and Argentina are through, but only just. And as the round of 16 starts over the weekend, we will ask, can England conquer the Azteca after the kickoff confusion. Well, here in the studio we have the Athletics, Keris Jones and Liam Tharm. Now, we know we've had the confusion over the kickoff time, but that is all settled. We'll get to that. But have you finalised your plans for Monday morning yet?

[Keris Jones]

I think pub. I think for the novelty of being in the pub from 1 until 3 in the morning and I am then on the show the following morning.

[Host/Moderator]

Great.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah. I might not be my most put together self, but I'm calling it authentic.

[Host/Moderator]

Yes, absolutely.

[James Horncastle]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

It will go either way.

[Advertiser/Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

You might be elated because England have gone through and you're just sort of.

[Keris Jones]

I'll come in in my shirt, like, it'll be fine.

[Adam Leventhal]

You might as well come in from the pub, presumably to the office rather than.

[Keris Jones]

I mean, with how long it takes me to get in.

[Adam Leventhal]

Extra time and pens, potentially.

[Keris Jones]

If it goes to penalties, I might. I probably won't go to bed. So. Yeah, it's gonna.

[Adam Leventhal]

See, it could be fun.

[Host/Moderator]

It's gonna be fun either way, isn't it, Liam? What are you gonna. Are you gonna be sensible?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think I'm. Well, the problem is I'm working on Brazil, Norway before that, so I'm going to be doing that from home. I think it might be watching it from bed. I fear as a, you know, I

[Keris Jones]

think the problem is though also if I watch it from bed, I'll fall asleep. Like it doesn't matter how good the game is. Like if I try and watch something in bed at one in the morning,

[Adam Leventhal]

I think that might also happen with me.

[James Horncastle]

So.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay.

[Keris Jones]

Well, it'll be a nice surprise for you when you wake up.

[Advertiser/Commercial Voice]

Yeah, that's true.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

Well, we'll have much, much more on the kickoff time with Matt Slater very, very shortly. But let's start with the on pitch drama. Lionel Messi's Argentina were taken to the brink of World cup elimination by Cape Verde, only to win in extra time. And to witness it all in Miami, our man there was James Horncastle.

[James Horncastle]

Well, that was nice. Easy, straightforward. A walk in the park for Argentina, just as everybody anticipated. Oh, no, it wasn't. Cape Verde gave them a real scare. It looked at one stage, particularly in extra time, like one of the great upsets was on the cards. Particularly when Sydney Cabral scored. What for my money, is the goal of the tournament so far. Argentina at 22 looked shaken up. They were looking blankly at each other. They ultimately found a way to win the game and that was important. Lionel Scaloni said even if it wasn't own goal, because this game reminded him of a lot of the games that they played in Qatar four years ago, which were often manic, hysterical, left you biting your nails, tearing your hair out. It reminded Scaloni in particular of the opening game of the last World cup against Saudi Arabia, which they took the lead in and then they lost. But he said the difference was the. This time against Cape Verde, they didn't. They're more experienced now, they've got more character. But he wanted to pay homage to Cape Verde and say that there are no easy games at this level anymore. We've seen in this tournament that the gap between particularly the African countries and those in South America and those in Europe has got smaller. And it was a great occasion. And, you know, one of the nights of the World cup so far.

[Host/Moderator]

Liam Sydney Lopez Cabral with the goal of the tournament.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, it's up there. I'm ashamed to say that, actually, I turned the game off at 2:1 when Argentina.

[Keris Jones]

Shame, that is.

[Cerys]

Shame.

[Adam Leventhal]

So Cape Verde proved me very wrong. And I think a lot of other people this tournament, I mean, they were really, I think diligent late in the game when Argentina were kind of pushing as well, like, defended the box really, really well. Center backs were really alert. I mean, I know they conceded two goals kind of beyond that, both from set pieces, which I think they were just so good, kind of in settled possession, deep defending, that, that's the way. Then you have to try and break them down. They've had a really, really good tournament to take the winners all the way to extra time after taking Spain to a nil nil, you know, three draws in the groups. This just is a good team.

[Host/Moderator]

Now, in terms of the goal, that was great. The celebration was great going into the crowd. But then at the end, when the players knew that they'd been beaten, in the end, it was really sad, the tears from the players. It hit me on the way in when I was watching the highlights. I just thought, they have had a great story, haven't they, Cape Verde?

[Keris Jones]

I think they will go down as the story of this World Cup. I don't think anyone expected this from them. I think after that, that nil nil draw with Spain was, you know, the first kind of big upset of the tournament. And then it was sort of, how. How well will they continue that on? They're a flawed team, but I thought that they played really, really well, and I really enjoyed that. I didn't feel like they were hanging on. I didn't feel like they were playing for penalties or like they were playing for extra time, that they were trying to win the game in the 90 and then they were trying to win it in the 120. And I really thought, do it. That's my new favorite World cup goal, by the way. If we can change my answer from

[Adam Leventhal]

yesterday now, what did you pick yesterday?

[Keris Jones]

I picked Kieran Trippier's free kick, which Art had like a massive go at me for.

[Adam Leventhal]

I don't. Well, I don't see any issue with that.

[Keris Jones]

Thank you, Liam.

[Host/Moderator]

That's better.

[Keris Jones]

I wish he'd been here.

[Adam Leventhal]

Why? Why was Art so.

[Keris Jones]

Because I was basic.

[Adam Leventhal]

But he doesn't like Harry Kane, so, you know, I.

[Cerys]

Well.

[Keris Jones]

And there we go. And there we go.

[Adam Leventhal]

I love Art to bits, but, yeah, we disagree on something.

[Host/Moderator]

Let's not digress too much in terms of what this tells us about Argentina. What does it tell us?

[Adam Leventhal]

I mean, they kind of struggled their way a bit to the final four years ago. They're a very specific team. Right when they attack. We saw it with the opening goal. They want to go through the middle. They do very little down the side. It's basically a narrow 4, 4, 2 that they're playing. They've got a bit of width in there. Almada is kind of a 1v1 player, but they basically want to get Messi on the ball. This whole team is built around getting Messi on the ball. Same way, kind of France do that with Mbappe, England with Kane to an extent. And when that doesn't work and they come up against a really stubborn defense, they do kind of struggle. I don't see that kind of big target man on the bench. You know, the plan B is kind of do plan A better and they found a way. We've said that about other teams in this knockout round so far. England as well. There's, you know, Belgium kind of struggled their way through. Netherlands went out. It's not been easy, I think, for any of the major nations. Germany went out as well. I think no one apart from maybe Spain have really had it kind of convincing the US to an extent as well. But it's. It's been a tough knockout round.

[Keris Jones]

I thought they looked really tired as well by the end. I mean, there's probably an element of maybe this is not giving Cape Verde enough credit, but there's probably an element of the adrenaline kind of helping them step up their game as the later stages went on. Whereas I thought Argentina looked like they were really tiring. Maybe that's some of Them having had a longer club season, but the amount of players that were kind of going down with cramp and looked to be really struggling, that's not what you want at the start of the knockout phase. This is a long tournament. If they're going to go all the way through it. And to be taken all the way through 120 minutes and look pretty knackered by the end of it is not great for them.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

And it's interesting, I suppose, the sort of feeling physically hadn't budgeted for such a game as well, because people may well have thought, well, you know, Cape Verde, yes, they've done great, but I'm sure at some point they'll get a. They'll get a beating. And, you know, Messi, you know, trying to kick on in the. In the Golden Boot stakes and the way that it started, it almost looked as if, right, yeah, this will be fine. But they didn't know what was coming

[Adam Leventhal]

to them, which is even more credit. Right. I mean, this is a genuine team now that they made the AFCON quarterfinals a few years ago and like, building on success. I think no one at a future tournament, should they qualify, will kind of ever kind of underestimate Cape Verde again. It's been a whole kind of tournament like that. I think of a big team struggling even early on in kind of early group stage games that teams drop points where they either shouldn't have or they thought kind of, we can get a walk over here and just didn't.

[Host/Moderator]

So do you think that this will be a vindication for the expansion of the tournament?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think so. I mean, this is also a vindication of saying, I think African football is finally given the number of spots it deserves. Previously we had five African spots, and that was done on a knuckle knockout basis. Right. So you'd get a matchup of two big African nations against each other. You're guaranteed to not have one there, just by kind of virtue of how that's set up and organized. We had nine of the 10 African teams qualify from the group stage as the best of any confederation. And Cape Verde are a team that, even by AFCON standards, are kind of more of a growing nation than a major established one. So I think that's a real great success story.

[Host/Moderator]

Elsewhere, aside from the Argentina win, we saw Colombia edge out Ghana. Another African side losing out in this round, 1 nil. Egypt needed penalties to see off Australia in the end. Just. Just a quick word on Colombia, if I. If I may. How dangerous are they in this tournament? Do you think because they seem to be going under the radar a little bit.

[Matt Slater]

They do hit.

[Adam Leventhal]

I don't know if that's just partly kind of their kickoff times. Every game they're playing seems to be at like 3am So I always wake up and I'm like, oh, okay, Columbia have won again. That's just, that's just the thing that keeps happening. But they've won. I mean, a couple marginal, marginal games. They've conceded one goal all tournament. Pretty strong defensive team. There's talent across the board. You look at James Rodriguez playing a kind of deeper role. Luis D. They've got Daniel Munoz, who's a major goal threat, basically just making runs into the box from right back. So there's all, I think, the component parts of a really strong team there.

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[Host/Moderator]

Okay, time now to talk England and their trip to the Azteca. The kickoff time is still 1am UK time. Despite a day of confusion which he may well have picked up upon on this Friday night that's just gone. It was sparked by reports in the Mexican media that the kickoff time could actually be moved six hours earlier due to a storm Being forecast. Well, our senior news reporter, Matt Slater, has been across this whole story for us, all the twists and turns and this is how it all unfolded and why there was more to this story than first appeared. Have a listen.

[Matt Slater]

The early indications led by Mexican media, were that this was to do with the weather, that there was a storm forecast for Sunday evening and by moving forward, you'd be out of the storm, potential electric storm. So that was the initial story. However, Mexican media were really kind of galloping away with this story while the rest of us were still sort of like, what, what's happened? And I saw some quite prominent Mexican journalists saying, this isn't really about the weather, because if we look at the forecasts, this is a fairly typical summer forecast for Mexico City. This is about public safety. And I think the story here is what happened after that Mexico Ecuador game. Very sad story, I'm afraid. That was Mexico's first knockout victory since 1986. More than a million people took to the streets in Mexico City and everyone kind of congregated and moved towards huge statue called the angel of Independence. Unfortunately, there was crushing and crowding there and three people died of asphyxiation. A fourth person also died later on after an epileptic crisis. So four deaths that night. And that has been a big story in Mexico, as it would anywhere else. And the Mexican authorities, Mexican Mexico City authorities, have worried about this. And what appears to have happened is between the Mexican authorities and FIFA, conversations have started about what can we do to mitigate the risk. And one plan, and it's a pretty sensible plan, if you ask me, would be to move the game forward. So I suppose the question is, what caused the U turn on the U turn? To be fair to FIFA, what they would say is, there was no U turn. We never said we were doing anything anyway, so we didn't tell you anything. All they ever accepted today, all they ever acknowledged today was that they were in talks with both the Mexican and English FAS about a potential move. And they said this was about the weather. But we told you that nothing had been decided and now nothing has been decided and we stay with the plan. Now, multiple sources have told us that the weather was only part of their concern, that they were concerned, and I think these were concerns raised by the Mexican authorities about what happened after the Ecuador gate. So we believe, strongly believe that this was all part of a bigger set of concerns. The Mexican media at one point today ran this suggestion that the BBC were involved. They weren't. They had absolutely nothing to do with it, the teams, however, were very concerned about this. Mexican coach Javier Aguirre made it very clear that he, and in quite strong terms actually that he considered this to be a bit of kick in the stomach, I think was his phrase. We have, that's six hours less. We've planned everything to the hour. That's our nutrition plan, sleeping plan, travel to the stadium plan all up in the air. This is not good. Look, if this is what FIFA are telling us, we will do it, of course we will, but this is not helpful. It's not what we have chosen. And the English team were briefing similar, I think in slightly more measured terms that look, you know, we'll play the cards that are dealt to us. We will cope. What we're left with is serious thought was given to this tragedy that happened on Tuesday night. The Mexican authorities have got their own plans to put in place to mitigate that. That is ultimately their responsibility. How they police that crowd. And we have reports, understandings, briefings we're getting from people sort of on the ground. The talks are ongoing in terms of how England fans get in and out, how they stay safe. As it happens, the two teams, they're back to their plan and I'm afraid if you're staying up in the uk, well, if you're, you're still staying up, the pubs are open, I'm told. So nothing has changed on that front, but that is what has happened today and it's been a very strange day. But it is a case of as you were.

[Host/Moderator]

Well, thanks to Matt for unpicking all of that for us and obviously there's, you know, a serious foundation stone to this, to this story and it's a very sensitive one as well. Let's move this on to how this is going to impact England. We know that they traveled to Mexico City on Friday. They're going to have 48 hours ahead of the kickoff. They're going to be able to do their normal training and pre match press conference now. But that all looked as if it was going to be a movable feast. How disruptive do you think the talk of moving it will have been?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, that's really unideal. I think from the sounds of it, they were traveling kind of right as these discussions were ongoing, which is I think even less ideal and probably the last thing they want after quite a mentally draining game as well in the round of 32. I think that it's kind of a lot to deal with psychologically, but their whole kind of mentality to this I think has been Things are going. Going to come up. You have to just kind of roll with the punches and ride with it. If you let it kind of get on top of you, then it's. It's going to be detrimental.

[Host/Moderator]

Yeah, that's sort of what Marcus Rashford was. Was saying when I heard an interview with him. Trying to just block it out. I mean, that's all they can do. It's sort of usual footballer speak, isn't it?

[Keris Jones]

Yeah. I mean, his choice of words was quite funny. He said, it doesn't matter. It's a game of football at the end of the day. And we were like, well, is it. That's. That's the question. But yeah, I mean that. It's one of those elements where had the kickoff time been moved, it's entirely out of their control and all they could have done was sort of adapt as best they could. It would have been very disruptive, I think, to their preparations and undoubtedly there would have been sort of concern over why that happened so last minute. And that would have been a story that would have been ongoing and particularly had, you know, in a very going several hypotheticals down the line here. But had England looked kind of undercooked and lost that game, had the kickoff been moved forward, I think we would have had a big kind of inquest into what happened. But I think ultimately the fact that, you know, we had what, five or so hours of uncertainty over this, which, as Liam said, is roughly kind of when they were traveling and it's ended up as they were. And I think that will predominantly kind of be a relief that they've not had to kind of uproot all the, you know, the things that even the Mexican head coach referred to in terms of like training, eating, sleeping, those preparations that will have been planned down to the hour and the minute, those don't have to change now, so they can go back to. It's almost a little bit of like the. Well, it could. We're going into a difficult atmosphere. We're going into difficult conditions. We could have been doing it six hours earlier than we thought, but we're not anymore. I mean, there's a. There's a silver lining to the. To the uncertainty.

[Adam Leventhal]

Enjoyed the rehashing of the Wayne Rooney tweet as well, from what is more than a decade ago now of the kind of footballers h on a wolf down pasta at 9am for a noon kickoff. So that was good fun.

[Host/Moderator]

But do you think that it adds to the siege mentality for England? I know obviously Mexico weren't happy And Javier Ighiri said, you know, that he was as upset. But I suppose England can feed into it, can't they?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think they have to. They'd be silly not to. It's such a different test psychologically to what they've had this. This whole tournament and in previous tournaments and in future tournaments. I think very rarely do you tend to play host nation kind of anyway, and to play them kind of a ground like this kind of with the atmosphere as well, you think that a lot of players are well prepared for this kind of having gone on deep tournament runs at club level, and plenty of players with previous kind of tournament experience as well with England. So I think in many ways this might be theoretically one of the hardest games of the tournament because kind of, you look at kind of the teams you might face in deep rounds. If you get through okay, there's kind of high quality in Argentina, Brazil. But as a psychological test, that is a lot harder to prepare for. You can, you know, Tuchel can create a good match plan, a good tactical plan, but if your players are scared under the pressure, there's not kind of a lot of easy solutions to that.

[Host/Moderator]

So the logistics are just one of the elements that England are going to have to face. Here's Jack Lang with some other things that Thomas Tuchel's side are going to have to face.

[Jack Lang]

Hi, I'm Jack Lang, football writer at the Athletic, and I'm here in Mexico City where on Sunday England will show up to play Mexico in the last 16 of the world Cup. The Estadio Azteca is about an hour south of here, depending on traffic, which can be interesting. And I think that stadium could play a big role in what we see happen on the pitch. Mexico haven't lost there in well over a decade. They've only lost eight games there in their entire history in about 150 matches. And their record there at the World cup is particularly good. So this is in the third time Mexico has welcomed World cup games, and they've played there 10 times in that stadium and they haven't lost one of them. A lot of clean sheets in that as well. They've kept four clean sheets so far this competition, so it's going to be a tough team to break down. They're very good defensively. There's the altitude to worry about. We're at about 2,200 meters. When I have a run sometimes in the morning, it does take my breath away. I'm not an elite athlete, granted, but the scientists I spoke to before the World cup suggested it was more than enough to impact athletic performance. And then there's the atmosphere against Ecuador in the last round. It was fantastic. Probably the loudest stadium I've ever been in. Really intimidating. A lot of music, a lot of booing for the opposition players. And that is partly what England will face on Sunday. It's a lot of factors in Mexico's favor. Let's see who comes out on top.

[Host/Moderator]

Indeed. Let's see. Liam, I wanted to get your sort of take on the altitude situation because obviously it's funny Jack saying that, well, I went for a run and it was tough. The England preparations will have forecast that this was gonna happen. So they will have been doing their homework. They will have tried to cover it off as best as possible. I guess they just have to go in there and say, well, let's just do it. Let's just see how we go.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, if you plan to get to the final, right, we're talking eight games and three of those are in the group stage. And this game is sandwiched pretty bang in the middle. And in order to train and prepare for the first few games, which they were worried about heat, so they had a kind of a focus in their pre tournament stuff, their base camp around, okay, can we prepare for heat? And after this game, you won't be playing at altitude anymore because the games are going to the US it's really awkward to then prepare for because you could theoretically design your whole kind of training camp around that, but that's then completely at odds with the recovery that you want in a tournament cycle where they've played just kind of three or four days ago. They want them, in fact, to give the players extra oxygen, not take it away from them because they want them to recover. We've seen Declan Rice and others kind of look out on their feet, be cramping. I think you run the risk of if you kind of go, okay, we'll go all in on the altitude prep, you might not get to this round. If you lose a game before that, you're not getting knocked out. Then you've done all that work to prepare for a game you don't end up playing. And it is really physiologically demanding for, you know, for Jack, for elite players as well. There's no kind of hiding from that. But you just can't control for it in a different way. In other sports, you know, marathon training, athletics or cycling, you know, athletes will go to these altitude camps for a block of time and they will not be kind of competing regularly during, or maybe not competing at all you go there, you train, come back to sea level and you compete them with the adaptation that you've got from that. So I think for England, they wanted to go as close to it as possible, just to get in, get out. I think as much psychologically as kind of before their body starts to adapt to the altitude and they start to feel pretty grim. It's, yeah, a really hard thing to compete against.

[Host/Moderator]

And presumably, you know, substitutions and. And the way that that is structured by Thomas Tuchel is going to be key today.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, I think toying with the idea of kind of saying maybe do they go to a back three? Do you go for a more defensive system? There's probably players that you need to start that have not yet started this tournament or played more of a sub role. You look at someone like Kobbie Mainu, who's got a really good engine, can he come on and play at least kind of the first 60 minutes? Morgan Rodgers as well. Can you lean on those players who, you know, haven't played key goals? But you need that because asking players who have just played 90 minutes to do the exact same again under these conditions is probably running a big risk in terms of a sports science perspective. But also it's just, I think, really, really demanding on them. And of course, Mezco, they've started games well. They're yet to concede this tournament, as Jack mentioned, that you don't want to start too much on the back foot. But I think, yeah, if you kind of put all your big hitters on straight away, then you might be panicking a bit and turning to the bench kind of an hour and 70 minutes in and you need to kind of bring someone on that's going to impact the game.

[Host/Moderator]

The record at the Azteca, obviously. Hang on a minute. Hold on.

[Keris Jones]

This dude, I do know him.

[Host/Moderator]

So it's the first time England played at the Azteca since he did. He didn't lift the World cup when they beat England, obviously.

[Keris Jones]

Audio. You can probably guess this, but Adam is holding up a picture of Diego Mario.

[Host/Moderator]

Thank you very much for our audio description there. How much do you think this guy and what he did to England with the hand of God is going to play into what Thomas Tuchel says? Anything at all? Maybe more Harry Kane.

[Keris Jones]

No, I don't think. I mean, Thomas Tuchel said, you know, I haven't listened to the audio of it, so I can't tell how much he was maybe being a little bit jovial, but talking about, you know, the good karma from the hand Of God. I don't think that. Obviously, I don't think that good karma is going to play a role. I also don't think that psychologically what happened in 86 is going to have that big of an impact. I think there are so many psychological factors that are going to play on England's mind going into this game that we've kind of spoken about. The fact that they're going in with this siege mentality is going to be like. You know, if you looked at it from a club perspective, this would be your worst away trip of the season. Right. Like the. The record at the Azteca for Mexico, it feels like some of these. These historic grounds, we view them as sort of like. We view them as cauldrons. And when you actually break down the numbers, it can feel a bit like mythological. Whereas the record, as Jack's just unpacked it there, is exceptional. It's not a myth. It's a very real kind of home advantage that Mexico will have. I don't think Maradona is going to kind of haunt them. I think there are a lot of other things that are going to pose them significant challenges, but I don't think what happened in 86 is going to be one of those things.

[Adam Leventhal]

I don't mean to bring age into this, Adam, so forgive me, but I don't think none of the England players were born right when this game occurred. And you probably can't let it bleed into things because the game's big enough as it is. I think the test you were speaking before, when they obviously played Argentina there, that's also a different game to playing Mexico. In Mexico, I think you let other things come into it. You make it into even more of an occasion than it needs to be. England need to basically make this as much as they can, a game of technical quality again, where they keep the ball, they quiet the crowd down, turn it from an occasion into a game, play the match, play the 90 minutes. They are a technically superior team, potentially, physically. I don't know kind of about altitude, but they should have different ways of being able to beat this Mexico team, whether it be from set pieces, whether it be an open play. We've seen them be really creative at times this tournament. I think if you start to kind of make it into a big deal like that, then you can kind of become just a bit too much and probably just overwhelm players.

[Host/Moderator]

Shall I put him back on the wall now?

[Adam Leventhal]

Maybe for now.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, hold on. Interestingly, you know, we've. We've spoken about the altitude. We've spoken about the potential disruption of the. Of the logistics as well. It's well wor digging out on the Athletic where you can read all the coverage right now in the World cup for free on the app. Adam Crafton's piece how England can handle the mental bomb of the Azteca. Fireworks, fire alarms and worse. There's bags of things being thrown at players which you can imagine at times, which is referenced in the piece. I'll let you go and read it because it is really interesting about all the noise that's around the preparation for the England team and for other teams that have visited the Aztec over the years. Just a quick word on two big selection issues. I guess. When we spoke after England had played their last game, obviously all the attention was on Jed Spence and his position at right back. Does he stay at right back? Karl Anka thought that he should do. Do you think he should?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think there's a balance you want to get of not having too much rotation and also looking at who you're gonna be playing up against. Quinone's on that side is a really good and quite quick player. You might want to match that with kind of pace. Same reason. Think that Spencer's picked at left back in the Ghana game. You look at a team that can threaten really in transition in counter attacks, you go, we need to kind of balance out, balance out that strength. And I think, look, it's probably partly culpable for the goal. I thought his overall performance was okay. Quite a few good forward runs kind of, you know, beyond the defensive line that try to take players away and open up space for Madwaque or just playing on that right hand side. I think a lot of people have already made their minds up about Jed Spencer and kind of looking for bad moments or things he does wrong to kind of confirm that. I don't think he's been particularly bad at all, Keris.

[Host/Moderator]

I suppose the other decision is who plays on both wings and it just seems whoever comes on is the one that you think.

[Keris Jones]

That's literally what I was about to say. I think there's something to probably take away from the fact that every time England have played at this tournament, whoever has come off the bench on the wing has looked a bit stronger. I think that suits all of the options quite well. I think they are all better against tired legs, I think so then it becomes a question of if you stick with who you started and leave the players who had a good impact off the bench, like Anthony Gordon against Congo in the last game and then that doesn't work. Then why didn't you start Gordon? So my opinion on the right hand side has not changed in four games. I think Bukayo Saka is a better player than Nonny Madueke. I'm also concerned about his fitness. I think Madueke lacks end product. None of those factors have changed. They're still exactly the same on the left. My opinion hasn't really changed. I think whoever comes off the bench looks better in every game. So perhaps it is a factor of looking at who do England's performance team think can cope best with playing 60 minutes at altitude versus 30 minutes and that's how they decide it because I don't think either Marcus Rashford or Anthony Gordon are particularly pulling ahead of each other in that race.

[Adam Leventhal]

Not in terms of product, no. But I mean Gordon's fitness is pretty outstanding. Whenever you watch him for Newcastle. I know it's at Barcelona now kind of his repeat sprint ability is so, so good. You can go again and again and again. Obviously it's a different thing doing it at altitude in kind of these conditions, but it's one of the reasons Eddie Howe, when he kind of put him up top earlier this season, last season, whatever you want to call it, kind of cited that was saying, you know, he's really good out of possession. That might be a big factor for England especially if you kind of want to ease the burden on Kane not having to kind of do as much physically so he can keep his energy for attacking, for kind of delivering in those big moments. And for the very same reason I'd probably start. Madueke, if you're concerned about Saka's fitness, don't make him run for a full hour kind of from the start. Bring him on later in the game where he then can really have that impact. And carriers bang on. I think all the players, the wide players looks way better coming off the bench. And that's partly, I think generally wingers in in general have that impact where they're good against, you know, tire defenses, they've got a bit more space. You know, the fullbacks don't get out to them quite as quickly. And as we saw in the Dr. Congo game, kind of when they do fullbacks get out to them, that space opens up inside where the defense kind of stays. You get that room for Rice or someone to be running on kind of the underlap and make a chance in a different way.

[Keris Jones]

We were also sat in the newsroom watching the game earlier in the week. Weren't we? We were both banging the drum for, you know, when it wasn't quite working, just switching the flanks of the wingers. I'm really like baffled as to why Tuchel hasn't tried this yet. When so much of England's selection seems to be built around kind of getting the best out of the. The physicality that they have in the box, the ability they have in the box, get the wingers crossing with their strong feet into Harry Kane. It sounds quite simple, but I think it's something that if they're struggling to break teams down by going through, try going around and let the wingers do that on their stronger feet.

[Host/Moderator]

So Saka and Gordon or Saka and Rashford to start.

[Adam Leventhal]

To start I'd go Gordon and Madueke.

[Host/Moderator]

Oh, so you would still have Madawake and then have Saka as the impact.

[Adam Leventhal]

Because even though you're not, I think you lose more because you're talking about. Again, England have been better generally in second half this tournament. I know a lot of teams tend to be better in second halves anyway, but they've looked, you know, they've not scored a first half goal now since they played Croatia right in the. In the first game and they've been really good actually at grinding teams down and scoring. So I think you then want your best players finishing the game, not necessarily starting the game. Of course, this is then running the risk of saying, well, if you go one nil down like they did inside 10 minutes, the game kind of flips completely. You might have to go to plan B a little bit sooner. But I think if you kind of risk them gassing out by 60 minutes where they've not been phenomenal this tournament, then that might cause you some very different problems.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, so Gordon, Madueke.

[Keris Jones]

I think I agree with Liam. I think I do think Anthony Gordon, from an athletic point of view for the first 60 minutes, I really just have given up on trying to work out who I prefer on the right hand side.

[Matt Slater]

Fine.

[Host/Moderator]

Are there any other changes that you would make?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think in central midfield you've got to, I think, offer a little bit of kind of support in terms of just maybe it's a game. Rice doesn't start just because of how kind of exhausted that he looks. And I think you want him, you don't want to break him down.

[Host/Moderator]

Maybe he can't not start.

[Keris Jones]

But then what? Would you drop Bellingham deeper and put Rogers.

[Host/Moderator]

Hold on a minute. You can't.

[Adam Leventhal]

I think there's an argument in this

[Host/Moderator]

game, I mean, wouldn't there be outcry if Declan Rice doesn't start?

[Adam Leventhal]

There might be, but I think Thomas Tuchel's job is to pick a team that wins the game and works, not a team that the British public or the English public. Sorry, necessarily, you know, the most thrilled about.

[Host/Moderator]

And that would be really bold though, wouldn't it?

[Adam Leventhal]

But if you need to be bold, then be bold. I think we can criticize the team as much as we kind of like on paper. I think Anderson looks fine in kind of the base midfield. You could probably put minor in there potentially. I mean, I don't think you do. Manu and Rodgers probably one of the two. Maybe Manu is a bit more secure on the ball. There's also an argument, and I know England are a bit lighter fullback, but you could move Nico O'Reilly into midfield. He'd be really, really good there. Really, really strong. I think you then lose kind of what you get with him at left back. But that's also another option. I think one of the reasons why Tuchel tried to pick a squad that has so many versatile players that you can make those changes without, you know, having to bring in more players.

[Host/Moderator]

Our producer Mike has basically just said on the running audit, that's a disgrace.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay, Arsenal fan producer Mike. I'd like. I'd like Rice to play, but I also want Rice to play in hopefully and ideally the quarterfinal, semi, final, final. So you don't want to gas him out too soon. And he's also a fullback option, we should say as well, potentially going back. I think so.

[Host/Moderator]

He doesn't. He didn't seem to be very willing in terms of what he said after the game. He'll do it. He'll do it, but he doesn't want to be.

[Adam Leventhal]

Talk himself into a starting spot right back, is he? He's not. He's not silly.

[Host/Moderator]

I wasn't expecting you to go into Rice is. Would you keep the center backs as they are?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think. I mean ideally Stones I think would come back in. In the game like this where you're probably going to have more possession. I appreciate he's been a little bit liable defensively, but I think kind of all the center backs have got different strengths and weaknesses where now that there isn't that Maguire kind of, I think, figurehead at the back. You can kind of make an argument to start it any kind of way you want. You could also use Ezriel Concert as a fullback if you want someone a bit more kind of defensively solid and also to move him out of the center and then keep gay and potentially bring Stones in as a more of a partnership. Obviously. I don't know how much they play together at City, but are kind of teammates. They have got an understanding there. So there's a lot of different ways. I think Tuchel can set this team up, which is a good thing, but also maybe a bit of a problem because then you can get into that Pep Guardiola thing of overthinking and how many different kind of changes and kind of adaptations can you make.

[Host/Moderator]

I think you've gone a little bit Pep Guardiola.

[Adam Leventhal]

I might have overthought this a bit,

[Host/Moderator]

but it's all good. I like the thought process. It's good to hear it, but I would be staggered if Declan Rice doesn't start the game. But we shall see. We shall see.

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[Host/Moderator]

Right. Are you ready to test your minds?

[Cerys]

Yeah.

[Host/Moderator]

Good. Say yes if you are.

[Adam Leventhal]

If you are.

[Host/Moderator]

Here we go. Our question for the day. Miroslav Klose made 24 World cup appearances. It's day 24 of the World cup, scoring a record 16 goals at the time. But do you know how many he scored for Germany in total?

[Adam Leventhal]

I read a very good piece about him by Seb staffer Blaw, and from my memory, what he kind of said within that I don't know the exact number, but was kind of. That he was not a kind of key player for that. That long. Kind of not like the longevity of others because he came into the game quite late. Right. As a. As a pro, this is a lot of detail. It is a lot of detail. And you just might number. So it was 16 at World Cup. Let's say 40.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay. It's not 40. Shall I give you three options?

[Keris Jones]

We can do multiple choice or we can do closest to the pin.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, let's do closest to the pin.

[Adam Leventhal]

You said 40.

[Host/Moderator]

You said 40.

[Adam Leventhal]

I did say that before I knew it was closest to the pin. That's not the point.

[Keris Jones]

I'm changing the rules.

[Host/Moderator]

Halfways is sniffing an opportunity to win her first do you know quiz on day 24 of the World Cup.

[Cerys]

Hang on.

[Adam Leventhal]

So you're over, under between 16 and 40. 28. Just don't pick 28 because then we're both. It's gonna be too.

[Keris Jones]

Okay, thank you.

[Host/Moderator]

This is a hell of a thought process.

[Keris Jones]

50.

[Host/Moderator]

50.

[Keris Jones]

That was a really long thought process. Really basic overwhelming answer.

[James Horncastle]

We're going.

[Host/Moderator]

You guessed 40.

[Adam Leventhal]

I did.

[Host/Moderator]

Cerys guessed 50. Cerys, you have won.

[Advertiser/Commercial Voice]

Yay.

[Adam Leventhal]

Congratulations.

[Host/Moderator]

You were still quite a long way out. It was 71.

[Adam Leventhal]

Was it? Okay, how many times did he play in total?

[Host/Moderator]

The amount of times that Miroslav Klose played for Germany. He says.

[Adam Leventhal]

Are you stalling as you open up his Wikipedia?

[Host/Moderator]

No, I can fill. I've been doing it for years. 137 times.

[Adam Leventhal]

That's pretty good. Goal every two games.

[Host/Moderator]

That's a very, very good return. You're absolutely right. Do you want a little bit more detail on it?

[Keris Jones]

Go on, then.

[Host/Moderator]

So his 16 World cup goals came across four tournaments, five in 2002, five in 2006, four in 2010 and two in 2014. But he scored 71 in total. Terrys, you won.

[Keris Jones]

What a day.

[Host/Moderator]

Well done, well done.

[Keris Jones]

I was still absolutely miles out but we took it.

[Adam Leventhal]

Biggest upset of the World cup.

[Host/Moderator]

Right, so day 24 sees the round of 16 begin. Many people's favourite to win the tournament, France. They take on Paraguay first though. Let's talk about the co host Canada taking on Morocco. It's been a very good tournament for Canada. They've broken new ground, especially their first ever World cup knockout win over South Africa. Morocco though is is a step up. Are you expecting the first co host to exit?

[Adam Leventhal]

I don't know. I mean Morocco are definitely favorites in this game. It's a big kind of tactical and technical test I think for Canada, who are a very good team but are quite a physical team in terms of their strength. So they might want to try and make it a physical game against Morocco challengers. I think they're quite a good team athletically anyway without the ball. They're a good intensity team, Morocco, but it's also a great benchmark I think for Canada to see where they're at as a team and going forward where they can kind of what they need then to get to that next level.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, let's talk about France. Obviously Kylian Mbappe, it feels like he's just going to think, right, I could get a hat trick against this lot. Do you think that there's any way that Paraguay can cause an upset?

[Keris Jones]

I mean obviously no one expected them to against Germany, right. But I think that France having much clearer attacking identity, much more cohesion, I would argue kind of much more belief as well than Germany appeared to. So I would be, yeah, I'm not expecting another upset from Paraguay. I expect them to test runs and it will be kind of a tank test of kind of how sternly they can defend, how well they can hit on the counter. But I think France just look a much more complete team than Germany and I think cohesive. The word I keep coming back to as well. I still don't really see anyone stopping France and I think my opinion on that has only kind of been bolstered by what we saw from Argentina last night as well.

[Host/Moderator]

And Liam, I just wanted to get a word from you on the game that you mentioned which will happen before England play Mexico. Brazil against Norway. I just want to. I just want to hear your thoughts on Gabriel against Haaland in the shirts of Norway and Brazil compared to Manchester City, Arsenal are We just going to have another juicy battle between the two of them?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think so, and I hope so. I mean this is two really good teams, I think. I mean Norway have really shown their level. They were so good in qualifying. They dispatched some teams, European top scorers in qualifying, but then also to get to this stage and then kind of show that level again. They were really good in the round of 32 against Ivory coast as well. Another top level team and I think they've got so much strength and depth, but that as an actual 1v1 battle I think should be really good. Harlan, this tournament has had 14 shots, he scored five times. All of those have been one touch finishes, which is great. It just shows what he's all about and also how Norway have built the system so well around him. Brazil are very similar. All their attacks, or most of their attacks go down the left side. They like their rotations there to get Vinnie on the ball. Norway do the same thing, but it's get the ball wide, get crosses in, in, get so into the box with Haaland. So you've got two in there. So you know, it's not just Haaland that Gabriel's got to deal with and Marquinhos or whoever's at center back, it's sooth as well. That should be a real good fun matchup.

[Host/Moderator]

Who wins it?

[Adam Leventhal]

Who wins it? I think if Norway can take it late in the game maybe to extra time that they could. I think it's genuinely really tight to call. I think it could be quite a 50, 50 Brazil as well, I think have started a bit this tournament held by Morocco. In the first game, Japan as you've run them quite close and could have won it at one all before the. The late. So I'm not yet convinced on Brazil. I think they need kind of a statement win and a statement performance and this is the kind of opposition to do it against, especially one that are probably physically superior, maybe not technically.

[Host/Moderator]

And who do you think is going to be facing each other in that quarterfinal? Brazil.

[Matt Slater]

Norway.

[Host/Moderator]

England. Mexico. What's going to happen, Keris? Come on. You're on a good run of form. You've just won a quiz.

[Keris Jones]

I'm not sure we call that a run of form. I think we call that a fluke. I think I'm gonna say England. Brazil.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, fingers crossed.

[Keris Jones]

Fingers crossed.

[Host/Moderator]

It would be, it would be great. And to continue the celebrations after your quiz win, saying that England are gonna beat Mexico at the Azteca where they haven't lost national significance, you know, 100 years. I also want to thank our viewers on YouTube for helping us get to the magical total of 300,000 subscribers on YouTube. So thank you very much. Keep watching. Keep commenting as well. Your support as always is appreciated. Your support is always appreciated in the studio. Liam, thank you very much indeed. Keris, thank you. Enjoy the England game however you're going to consume it. You guys in the studio, you at home as well. Well thanks to Matt, to Jack and to James for their contributions earlier on as well. And just a quick reminder, I mentioned it earlier on that on the Athletic app during the World Cup. All the content is free, so do enjoy it whilst you can. There's no show tomorrow on Sunday, but Emma Payton will be back with you on Monday to react to England against Mexico and much, much more. We'll see you then.

[Jack Lang]

Foreign.

[Cerys]

Hey, Pablo Torre here. As a sports journalist I've covered global sports for many years now and there is one thing that I can promise you. Nothing compares to the World cup and this time it is even better. Thanks to McDonald's you have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. The Cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Terry Henry and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamine Yamal and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary Cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. Only at McDonald's at participating McDonald's only for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. Copyright 2026 McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026 hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Moments Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing, but sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited platform.

[Host/Moderator]

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[Cerys]

Whew.

[Host/Moderator]

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