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Host 1
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Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-3369 In New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.
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Ayo Akimolere
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- [02:46]
Host 2
The.
- [02:46]
Ayo Akimolere
Athletic FC Podcast Network welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Arsenal have it all to do in Paris after a 10 defeat in the first leg of their Champions League semi final tie and hit by Dembele and.
- [03:05]
Host 2
In.
- [03:08]
Host 1
Three and a bit minutes PSG in front.
- [03:10]
Ayo Akimolere
So how did Luis Enrique's PSG get the better of the Gunners and can Arsenal stage a comeback in the second leg? So with us today we have the Athletics, Art De Rocher and Stuart James. Now Art, not the performance or result Arteta would have wanted. In your opinion what went wrong with Arsenal last night?
- [03:33]
Host 1
I think that the big thing was they just didn't heed the warnings that Paris Saint Germain have given them throughout the knockout stages. As soon as Dembele received that ball in in the center circle, my mind just went to the Liverpool game where he scored at Anfield and it was just a carbon copy I felt. So I think that was what obviously I guess broke the game open for PSG and gave them that platform that they could hold on to for the rest of the game. And then from there I just think you saw the levels that PSG have going forward as well. I think they showed the quality of a side who not maybe they're not used to being in this stage of the competition, but the qualities that can set you apart at this stage in terms of being brave on the ball and also just being really intense without it. So I think those two factors really kind of maybe shocked Arsenal a little bit in the first 15, 20 minutes and then from there it's an uphill battle.
- [04:27]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, it is. And Stu, you know we talk about a shock. I mean that first goal from Dembele really early on in the match, some might say it was a bit of a sucker punch to Arsenal, but I guess with the star that PSG played with as well, it was tough to real that Arsenal were actually the Home team, they really came out shooting, didn't they?
- [04:44]
Host 2
Yeah, it was such a shame because I thought it kind of sucked the life out of the game. Early on, from an Arsenal perspective, you could tell there was a brilliant atmosphere in the stadium. You got that feel watching it from home. But to concede so early, I think you can't underestimate mentally what that did to Arsenal at that time. I remember the camera cut into Rice and you could see him preaching calm toward his teammates, but actually, they all look shell shocked. I've had to look shell shocked on the touchline. You don't expect to concede that early in a game of that magnitude. And I think there's two things there. Obviously, it gives PSG a huge confidence lift, too, and Arsenal are trying to deal with the trauma of conceding that early. But talking to the point that Art just made there as well, you have to give massive credit. It wasn't just a mental problem for Arsenal in that first 20 minutes. Tactically, technically, PSG was so good in that period. So, so good. And Dembele was just so intelligent with the positions he picked up. They were monopolizing possession. I remember a stat flashing up on the screen after about 20, 25 minutes that Arsenal had 33% possession. You know, they're the home team in a Champions League semi final, and we're used to seeing Arsenal dominate the ball. It almost felt like they were playing with 10 men at that time. So, yeah, a real blow, because if the opposite had happened, you felt the stadium would really have ignited. But it just took all the energy out of Arsenal and the supporters it felt for that period, which is totally understandable.
- [06:08]
Ayo Akimolere
Let's talk about that atmosphere. What was it like? You know, Arteta asked the crowd to bring it, you know, to bring their boots. Felt like it. I saw some really beautiful tifos as well, which I've not seen at the Emirates often. I saw things like flares being brought up in North London, and it felt like a real European feel for a European tie. How was it out there?
- [06:27]
Host 1
Yeah, for me, I mean, I. I got out maybe about just over an hour before kickoff, and the PSG fans were already in the UA section. And you already had Arsenal fans footing through near the side of the pitch where they do all the flash interviews and stuff, so you could get that feeling of excitement from both sides. And I felt that when you came out just before kickoff, just before the players were about to enter the pitch, it was amazing. The noise, personally speaking, I've been going to the Emirates for how long? 18 years. Wow, 18 years. And personally, I don't remember it being that loud ever before kickoff. So for me, I thought they brought their boots, figuratively speaking. But, yeah, as Stuart says, I think it was just really unfortunate, the timing of the goal, and you could really feel the effect of that afterwards. I think in the real immediate aftermath, they still tried to kind of lift the team. But I think once PSG had the ball for that long, it just quieted the crowd down a little bit and it was kind of a bit hard to recover after that. And again in the second half, really early kind of tipping point where Mourinho scores and it's ruled out. And I think that that's another moment where if Mourinho's a couple of centimeters, just one more side, I think that really changes things. But, yeah, a few unfortunate timings.
- [07:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, football's really interesting, isn't it, in terms of narrative, Stu? Because Art talks about Marino's potential goal if it had gone forward, how that would have changed the course of the tie. But even if you think about Trossard and also Martinelli as well, they had chances, and it's one of those where a goal from Trossard or a goal from Martinelli, now the team start to believe. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.
- [08:11]
Host 2
Yeah, you're spot on those key moments. I remember just before half time, it felt like Arsenal were finding a little bit of momentum. They got back into the game after that really difficult first half hour, and then that Martinelli chance came and went and you thought, oh, if they could have just scored before halftime. And then second half, you know, when that goal goes in for Marino, it's. His celebration looked a little bit subdued, almost to the point you thought, does he know he's offside? Ian Wright was jumping up and down. It was electric at that moment when it had gone in though the rest of the ground, and I thought, this is it. One, one. Here we go, Arsenal, you can have a real crack at PSG now. Try and do what Villa did to them in that second leg at Villa park instead. It just never happened. And then the longer the game went on, to be honest with you, my biggest concern was PSG getting a second goal, and they obviously had those two great opportunities late on. A real blessing that neither of those went in, because I think if Arsenal were going to Paris 2 nil down, it would be irretrievable from that point. As it is, it's not. But, yeah, you're spot on those. Those moments in A game. Little moments where you really want to capitalize on. It's funny because small things become big things. I remember Louis Skelly winning the ball off hakimi after about 25min half an hour. Arsenal had a really difficult opening and suddenly that challenge just lifted everyone. But they kind of needed to then go on and get a goal, obviously, and unfortunately that didn't happen. But I have to say, I'm so impressed with psg. I think they're a brilliant team.
- [09:35]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. And Donna Ruma really showed his stripes yesterday. Absolutely incredible saves for both Trossard and Martinelli. But Stu's right. Should Arsenal feel lucky or feel grateful that they're not. It's not more than 1 nil because barkala, I mean, silly miss and then Ramos hit. I mean, I thought it was over at that point.
- [09:54]
Host 1
Yeah, in a sense, I would say. But I wouldn't say it's all down to luck. I think for me, I didn't view that second half as psg, going for it and going for the second goal. I thought they were quite, I guess, conservative in the way they played and they just kind of looked for those opportunities and that's where the chances came from. That Barcola chance, I think that's just pure football and brilliance. That's not even the one twos, the movement. And then you're in there and I just think his mind's blanked, basically. I think from an Arsenal perspective, the fact that it is just one nil is massive because for the criticism that will come, for the performance, they can just wipe their hands with it and go into that second leg quite fresh. And I know we spoke before about the women's game when they lost to Lyon 2 1, the first leg and the first leg, and it was very similar because Leon had two, two forwards who had the X factor in Diani and Dumaurnay who made the difference. But at Lyon Stadium in the second leg, it was a completely different story. So I think before the game, Mika Artiseta spoke about Pathway kind of being set by the women's team. I didn't think he'd be that literal with it.
- [11:06]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [11:07]
Host 1
But I think there is, I guess, framework there for them to still go into that second leg with belief. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast.
- [11:17]
Host 2
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Ayo Akimolere
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Host 1
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Ayo Akimolere
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Host 2
You mean the bean bag chair?
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Host 1
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Ayo Akimolere
Glad we can agree on something easily.
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Host 1
Pool split and Send Money with PayPal get started in the PayPal app.
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Ayo Akimolere
A PayPal account is required to send and receive money. A balance account is required to create.
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Host 2
A pool.
- [12:19]
Host 1
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Ayo Akimolere
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Host 1
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- [12:53]
Ayo Akimolere
Let'S also pay homage to some of the individual performances from that game. You know, starting with the positives. It was Mandembele once again coming up clutcher scoring. Essentially a carbon copy you set it up of the goal versus Liverpool. Dropping deep to collect the ball and then finding space to get on the end of the cross. Amazing transformation from him this season, Stu, considering at the top end of the season. We spoke about it yesterday on another podcast. Enrique wasn't playing him for like disciplinary issues.
- [13:17]
Host 2
Yeah, his transformation is extraordinary. When you look at his numbers, they are completely out of sync with anything he's done before. And obviously the positional shift is a big part of that narrative. Yeah, he didn't play in the October game. He was left out. And Lewis, Enrique said it's the best decision he made all year. He feels completely vindicated by it. I don't think it was one of those IO where the two of them fall out. I think he was just making it clear he was unhappy with certain disciplinary issues. They parked it and he's really kicked on and obviously the positional change has been huge. He's gone from playing right wing to playing in this false nine position which works so well with his skill set. The way he came deep to receive the ball in the lead up to the opening goal, but then his decision making later on not to keep running into the box to hold his position on the edge, really intelligent play and I think it's so difficult for Arsenal centre backs to mark a player with that intelligent movement. There was an incident later in the first half where Saliba followed him all the way in and got right up tight behind him. But Dembele was still really clean with his technique and how he used the ball. So, yeah, it's hard because you start dragging people out of position. But what have I got written down here? 33 goals, 12 assists for Dembele this season in 45 games. So 45 direct goal involvements in 45 games. 30 of those goal involvements have come in this calendar year. So he's exploded in 2025. He's arguably 2025 the best player in the world. I'd say only April, of course, but yeah, amazing, amazing numbers. Always been a really two footed player. I love two footed footballers. There aren't that many who are naturally that good on either foot. He's one of those, he's been a good dribbler. But I think the questions in the past I would have been what about his end product? You know, his numbers last season were really poor. Goals and assists. This season he's just ticking every box and yeah, a real threat. But the beautiful thing about PSG is that actually it's not one person. They're a really good team and I've always looked at them in the past and thought you're not a team team. You just got some great individuals and there's loads of players doing the donkey work for two or three stars. Now they all seem to buy into Luis Enrique Zfos and that's testament to him as a coach.
- [15:24]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Talk about two footed player. He's so good two foot. He doesn't even know what foot he's got to shoot off. Dembele. Now let's talk about the rest of that team. Neves, Vitinia, Fabian Ruiz. I mean, Neves is so young.
- [15:37]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [15:37]
Ayo Akimolere
And I, I can't tell you how many replays I saw last night of what looked like a foul. Then you zoom in and he just nicks the ball off the player. I mean, he's so precise in his operation. And we spoke about him yesterday on another podcast with Tom Williams and it's really interesting what Enrique's really got those guys to do. Not just on the ball, but off the ball as well. Was that a little lesson for Arsenal? Because of course they were missing Thomas Partey in that midfield, which often helps Arsenal with the counter press.
- [16:03]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [16:03]
Host 1
So I think the day before the Game, we obviously had the press conferences and for psg, they put up Vitinha as their player and the constant question was physicality, how. How are you guys in the PSG midfield going to deal with Arsenal being a physical team? And you could tell that Vitinha was getting really annoyed with that, with that kind of line of question, because I think in his mind, and probably the other midfielders minds, technically they're so good that they probably don't even worry about that. In the October game, which I watched back a couple of weeks ago, there were moments where I think PSG had the ball, were comfortable with it, but they weren't going anywhere. And I think a big difference was Warren Zayt. Emery was starting that day. Since then, I think he started four games in the Champions League, none of them in the knockout stages. Instead it's been Fabian Ruiz who kind of just ghosts into little pockets. He had that moment where he hit the post after Duo's shot. He was offside, but he's still in that area, in that zone. And then I think for from just how that midfield's made up, there's so many opposite movements that are really hard to kind of almost not react to. Because if we go back to the goal, I think it's Vitinha and Ruiz making those opposite movements. And as a midfielder on the other side, you're going to react. It's your instinct to follow them. But I think that's where maybe communication comes into it, where you maybe need a shout from someone behind you to say, don't follow that run, because you're going to leave acres of space for Dembele. And that's how they did it against Liverpool. That's how they pulled people away from Dembele. So, yeah, I think as a unit, those three are really intelligent in how they both create space and exploit it as well.
- [17:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Enrique's just got them moving so brilliantly, like to the point where I'm like, where is anyone playing at this point? It's so technically Stu. Stu. Let's talk about Arsenal's midfield then. Like Martin Zubemndu, we've spoken on this podcast how he's heavily linked with Arsenal and a summer move to the North London team. Now look, is he assigning Arsenal needs to help improve their ball progression? Because, you know, I mentioned Thomas Partey there. I mean, he boiled account. He's had a very decent season actually playing next to Declan Rice.
- [18:19]
Host 2
Yeah, I think what that signing would do is liberate Rice a bit more. It would allow him to play in a more attacking role, to play more like an 8, be more dynamic, and then you've got someone behind him who can control build up. I think Partey was a big miss, actually. I think because it also destabilises other things, I think Marino would have been better suited to playing in that more advanced role that he's been doing. You know, there's an argument with center of the pitch opened up in the same way if Partey was playing for that first goal. So, you know, you look back in picture Declan Rice's frustration with Partey in Real Madrid right when he gets that stupid yellow card at the end of the game. And I think that that changes a lot and it changes Arsenal's setup at a time when Arteta doesn't have that many options. So, yeah, I'd see that would be a really, really good signing. But I still think for me they need a lot more at the top of the pitch. I think the other thing I'd mention on midfield and you might well be, I just don't think Odegaard does enough at the moment and I think so we can look at what someone else would bring. But also I think Arsenal have got to find a way of getting more out of him and Odegaard's got to deliver more. So, yeah, they're issues, but fundamentally, I think in midfield, I felt even I agree with our second half that the dynamic of the game changed. PSG weren't chasing that second goal until a couple of opportunities opened up. But Arsenal had a lot of the ball, but I didn't see them really creating him much. You know, if you think about the two biggest chances the game from Arsenal's point of view, one comes from Lewis Skelly playing inverted first half. When he comes in, Hakimi gets dragged out and he feeds that lovely ball for the out to win run for Martinelli. Second half, it's not through passing that great chance for Trossard. It's through Rice surging through the center of the pitch, breaking the lines through, carrying the ball and then obviously feeding Trossard. And I think there's, if there's one comfort from Arsenal in that both those opportunities have come from the Arsenal left, the psg, right where Hakimi loves to get forward in their space to exploit. So I think that's probably something for the second leg. But for me to go back to your question, I feel like the biggest thing for Arsenal is to improve their attacking options next season.
- [20:28]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. We have to talk about Odegaard, Art and You know, a player was often showed lots of promise this season, not to say he hasn't shown promise, but that post injury almost look a shadow of the player he's been obviously his link up mate Bukayo Saka has also been injured, but I guess sometimes, especially as the captain of the team, you probably want a little bit more. And I wonder if from where you were sitting, the fans we talk about that atmosphere almost felt frustrating as well. When you're looking at 70, 60, 70 minutes and Arsenal sort of resort back to this sort of trying to play it back post, you know, not being able to break teams down and actually he's the orchestrator of a lot of those things. Is it disappointing to see where he was last?
- [21:09]
Host 1
Yeah. So in terms of fans that are around the press box, there was a lot of frustration as the game kind of went on towards him. And I think part of that is down to, yeah, those balls that you can predict kind of being floated to the back post that maybe easy for Donnarumma to claim. But then also I think part of it was down to in that midfield battle there are moments where in 50, 50 challenges he, he didn't fully go in for a ball or something like that. And that I think is something that, that's when you hear the groans. And so I think you'd want him to be more imposing in those situations, which I know it isn't his game but still there are moments where you can actually fully go in rather than kind of going half heartedly. Also, I think from where I was sitting, there were moments where I was a bit surprised that he wasn't combining with Saka as much. So I was at the Ipswich game where it was White, Odegaard and Saka. So that trio that everyone's spoken about so often, that was the first time they'd all started together since I believe October, maybe November. And they looked really good together because White gave them, I guess, that extra body to take a defender away on the overlap. And Arteta didn't go with that, which was understandable because White was a fitness doubt and is probably, I'd say, not as solid defensively as Timber. But still I was expecting moments where Saka gives the ball to Erdogan, a little layoff back to him, or a little through ball in behind for him to chase. And there are moments where ball comes back to Odegaard and he doesn't play that second ball quickly enough. And for me it almost just strikes someone who's in the head a little bit too much, maybe thinking through the next, I guess the next decision, instead of just playing what he sees. And for me, that's kind of what I took from it, rather than it being about anything else, really.
- [23:09]
Ayo Akimolere
There was a part of me watching that match asking myself, why is Martin Odegaard still on the field when you've got IFO Nanri who could naturally come on, Obviously less experience, but, you know, a limited surprise and whatnot. Do you think there's an element sometimes in these kind of matches that Mikel Arteta, regardless of how well he's done as a manager and coach of Arsenal, can be a bit cautious at times? Because I think that also feeds to the crowd as well. You know, I don't think Nanieri came on till about 90 minutes. What's he got to do? Five minutes to try and get something out the gate?
- [23:39]
Host 1
Yeah. So I think that that element of it, substitutions is. It's been a thread throughout. I think Mikel Arteta's time at Arsenal because people are wanting to see something fresh and I think there are times where he's used substitutions really well. If you think back to last season when Arsenal played against Manchester City at the Emirates, I think he brought on, I believe it was Parte Tomiyasu and Martinelli all at the same time, and they were all involved in the winning goal that day. So he's shown that he can do it. But I think when you look to last night, you're looking for, I guess, a difference in rhythm in the game and when Yeri is someone who can bring that. And we saw, I think there was a moment where again, I think it's just a long ball up top and then Rice is really good in how he anticipates the second ball. Wanieri's there to kind of just be an option, flings it to Martinelli and these his shots. Probably best not to talk about.
- [24:40]
Ayo Akimolere
Some might call it as a rugby conversion as opposed to a football shot.
- [24:45]
Host 1
But it creates something. So I think that's where you're looking at. Rather than making that substitution on 90 minutes, make it on 80 or even 75. And I think it's just about. Yeah, I guess who am I to tell Micarta, what's this? No, I know, but having that conviction, a word he spoke about quite a lot and doing it a bit earlier.
- [25:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. And also trusting in his own ability as a manager. Anyway, Stu, on this sort of Odegaard conversation, club captain and, you know, Mikel Arteta's spoken about how he's a different kind of club captain. He's not the one going to be coming knocking at his door and all that kind of stuff. But then you look at the searing runs Declan Rice has made yesterday to play beautiful passes. You see the free kicks that Declan Rice scored and he's also the set peace taker sometimes of this team. Is there an argument that perhaps there should be a conversation about who that club captain looks like next season, perhaps, or is it just Rice's role is just very different to the way Mikel Arteta sees Odegaard operating?
- [25:44]
Host 2
Yeah, I kind of thought this after the second leg against Real Madrid when Rice was just magnificent. I know he was across both those games, but I think it takes another personality again to go and play like that in the Bernabeu like he did driving the Arsenal team on so many actions on the pitch, where you see him without the ball too, whether it's like that instant, I described the party, how frustrated he was with him in that moment before the game last night. You could see him saying to his teammates, he had them in a huddle in a way that you might expect to see Odegaard talking in that moment and saying, you know, without the ball, you know, we've got to die for each other without the ball. I said earlier, he's the one who's saying calm when the goal goes in. So in a way, I kind of feel the armband doesn't matter. I don't think the armband would change how Rice plays the game. I think he is just a leader. With or without it. Would he be a more natural fit for that role? In my eyes, yes, absolutely. But then I think the whole narrative around captaincy has changed so much over time. And there would have been a point when it had to be a Roy Keane or a John Terry or going back years ago, a kind of Brian Robson now. I think people look for different things than a captain and they look for the way the player plays and not just whether they're really vocal on the pitch or in the dressing room. But look, I'm sure if they'd have arrived at different times and Rice was there first, Rice would be the captain kind of thing. It'd probably be a weird thing now to take it off Martin Odegaard, unless Arteta felt that the captaincy was affecting his performance. I'm not sure you know far better than me on that, but I don't sense that is part of the reason why he's not been at it. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think Arsenal lose anything by Rice not in the armband. I think he just plays all in every game and I think he's a natural leader.
- [27:25]
Host 1
Yeah. So on that, I think Stuart's right because when I think back to when Erdogard was given the captaincy, so summer 22, Granit Xhaka was actually put up for a little round table that was ahead of the release of the all or Nothing documentary. And obviously captaincy was a big topic at the time because he'd previously worn it and it just gone to Odegaard. And his sentiment was he didn't need the armband to lead. And I think that's something that was really poignant at the time because he is obviously a lot more outspoken, a lot more vocal than Odegaard was, but he's still allowed to be that person even if he doesn't have the armband. I think Odegaard as a captain isn't going to be precious about who is giving the messages to his teammates. If that's more in Declan Rice's skill set or at the time, Granit Xhaka's skill set, they can do that and they can still be a leader. They don't need a piece of cloth around the arm. So I think that from Stewart is probably very accurate. Also, I think when you look at the makeup of Arsenal's leadership group, which is something that's been going on since Mikhail Arteta's been in in the club, is something that's still evolving. So I think Erdogan is in there and then Saka Bukayo. Saka, who had the captaincy when Erdogan was injured earlier this season. He only joined that leadership group in the summer because of the turnover of players, more experienced players leaving. I think you've also got Gabriel Jesus and Jorginho in there as well. I think Declan Rice will be coming into his third season next year, so it probably makes sense if he joins that group and then you. You can probably see a bit more from him in that respect, but for now I think he's just do it. He's just, I guess, conducting himself in the way he would naturally anyway, so on the pitch, it wouldn't really matter who has that little, little piece of cloth on their arm.
- [29:38]
Host 2
This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting.
- [29:42]
Ayo Akimolere
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Ayo Akimolere
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Host 2
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Host 1
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Host 2
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Ayo Akimolere
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Host 1
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Host 2
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Ayo Akimolere
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- [31:07]
Host 2
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Acamonera.
- [31:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Look, it is not over between Arsenal and psg. There is still another leg to play well after the game. Mikel Arteta was keen to relay the fact that it's only half time in the tie.
- [31:27]
Host 2
We are half time, half time.
- [31:29]
Ayo Akimolere
And my message being exactly the same post Real Madrid at home 30 is we have to go to Paris and win the game. And we are more than capable of doing it because I saw two very good teams where the margins are so small and they had efficiency in front of the goal and their keeper as well made a difference to see the.
- [31:49]
Host 2
Result that we've seen tonight.
- [31:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Gents. How do Arsenal turn this around, Stu? How did they stage their own remontada? I hate saying it because now I've cursed it, but what. What do you reckon, Stu? How do they come back into it? Because 1 nil. There's still a lot to play for.
- [32:03]
Host 2
There absolutely is, yeah. It's difficult though, isn't it? There's no two ways about it. You know, this is a real challenge now to go to Paris and to come up with a game plan to find a way of winning there. I find it hard to believe PSG won't score. Stating the bleeding obvious there then Arsenal have got to get at least two to take it depends. Maybe three, you know, so that's a real challenge party. Being available, I think will allow them to have a better structure with the team. It's like last night. I feel that it Would have been the kind of night where you want to bring Trossard off the bench. But obviously, because of Party being suspended and all the injuries Arsenal have, they don't have that kind of luxury. So, you know what I mentioned earlier about that PSG right side, where Hakimi pushes forward so much. I think Arsenal have got to try and exploit those areas. They will have to be disciplined. They can't go chasing the goal, obviously, early on in the match. But we did see, albeit it was at Villa park, it's different because this is in Paris. We did see what happened if you. You could get into a bit of a rhythm against PSG and turn up the pressure a little bit, really. So, yeah, it's. It's going to be very, very hard. It will need an absolute master class from Arteta, I think, to go over there and come up with the right game plan and execute it. Arsenal will need every player right at it. They'll need their big players. Saka performing really at the top of their game, which he is more than capable of doing. And they'll have to be perfect defensively, too. So it's asking a lot, but it's not impossible. It's one goal, you know, and if you can. And if you can, you know, go ahead over there, put a few doubts in their minds, which we saw in that game at Villa park, you know, who knows? But, yeah, they've come up against, I think, at this moment in time, probably the best team in Europe.
- [33:45]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Rhythm, finding rhythm, that's definitely something Luis Enrique really did well to sort of nullify in Arsenal. And that was a home leg. How did they find that collective? Does party make that difference?
- [33:59]
Host 1
Difference, yeah. So for me, I'm not sure if they would try and approach the game the same way. So I think before the PSV game, so round of 16, I asked Arteta what the difference between Arsenal and the Champions League last season and this season was, and he said, away, they're a lot more consistent in what they do. And a lot of that came down to how they put pressure on teams. The way they act defensively, not just in their own box, but high up the pitch as well. So I think in their performance, Real Madrid at the Bernabeu, they probably have a little bit of a blueprint because pate comes back in, Marino moves up top. And then to be fair, that night, the outlet was actually Saka instead of Marino. So I think there, you don't have to go All Government's Blaze and try and be imposing on the ball. From the first minute, you can kind of, I guess, get yourselves into the game first and then grow, grow with it. So, yeah, for me, I'm not in a place where I'm thinking and yeah, go to PSG and try and out football them basically, because I think you probably lose that game if you try and play it. I think they can be a bit more patient. And then also I just think when we spoke about the women's game earlier, when they went out to Lyon, the timing of their goals were critical. They scored early on in the first half, they scored in added time, just before half time, within 30 seconds of the second half. So if you're, I guess, lucky enough to have situations at critical moments, you just have to take advantage of them as well.
- [35:35]
Ayo Akimolere
I think it's really important, testing the mental resolve of this young PSG side as well to see how solid they are. If Aston Villa. The game Aston Villa was anything to go by can be shaken as Stu and I want to finish on this with both of you, actually. How much does this Champions League campaign really frame the entirety of Arsenal season? I think they've got Bournemouth next. Arsenal are firmly in second. The League has been won. Now. Does how they do in this Champions League actually dictate how we feel about their progression under Arteta this season?
- [36:05]
Host 2
I guess it does to a large extent, because it's. It must be hard for the Arsenal players now to have that much motivation for the Premier League games. And obviously they've done brilliantly in Europe this season. Their record's been superb and that Real Madrid game will be talked about for a long, long time. The two of them, you know, magnificent performances home and away. But it would be a real shame now if they, if they fall at the semi final hurdle. There'll be no disgrace in that because the caliber of the team they're up against. But I just feel this has been that fire, that steel flickering away in the season when we know the Premier League had gone. Realistically, I know Liverpool only just won the title. In a lot of our minds, they'd won it ages ago. So the Champions League, the fact that Arsenal were still in it and really impressing, it must have been something for them all to hold on to. And they've still got that at this moment in time. So I guess you will look back on it if they don't turn it around in the second leg and you can still see it. Okay, they haven't progressed in the Premier League and they'll feel frustrated because City have fallen off a cliff. And on the face of it, there was a real opportunity there for Arsenal this season. Injuries have played a part in that. There are reasons why it hasn't quite happened, but they'll be frustrated with all the games they've drawn in the Premier League too, and dropped points. At another time, they could have been really close to Liverpool. The Champions League feels like they've made. Made fantastic strides in it, but, ah, there would be that regret if they don't get through now in this semi final, you know, and that will hopefully really give them great motivation going to Paris, you know, hopefully they can put off something spectacular.
- [37:34]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Does it help that this is what they've got to play for for the rest of the season are really. Because also obliterating Real Madrid's one thing, not finishing the job is another. And also I guess it's yet again another symptom if Arsenal don't do it in the Champions League. Of Arsenal season, fundamentally stumbling at the final block and I. Personnel, injuries and all that kind of stuff does play a massive difference. But you can feel that narrative already.
- [37:58]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah. I think ahead of the game, you could feel from Mikel Arteta how big this was for him personally and for the club. It was the first time they've reached this stage since 2009. And I think he made a really big deal about that, because when you look at how this season has gone, if we was to have this conversation maybe a month or six weeks ago, you'd maybe say it was a season to forget. Now the hope's returned. And I'm not sure it's the hope that kills you, mate. I'm not sure that's. Sorry to say, I'm not sure that's.
- [38:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Hoping it's better for your heart.
- [38:32]
Host 1
Exactly. So I think to close the season, it is a really massive thing for them because it's what gives them meaning. And one thing he spoke about again, I asked him about Jose Mourinho and that football heritage phrase he kind of spun out a few years ago, because Arsenal have none really in European competitions. And he said that being in this stage has to be purposeful. Basically, you can't just be in the Champions League. To be in the Champions League, the games actually have to mean something. And that's where I think Arsenal need to shift towards. They did that with their win over Real Madrid. I mean, next week still means something as well, but I think to really be a team, I think you have to make the most of those moments when you're in them. Hopefully they can do that next week. And also that would give them, I think, even more confidence going into next season as well.
- [39:27]
Ayo Akimolere
Right? Let's leave it there. Art Stu, thanks so much for joining us. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [39:33]
Host 2
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.