How do Liverpool build on title success?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic FC Podcast – "How do Liverpool build on title success?"

Episode Details:

• Title: How do Liverpool build on title success?
• Release Date: April 28, 2025
• Host: Ayo Akinwolere
• Guests: James Pearce, Andy Jones, Kim Holderness, and David Ornstein

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1. Introduction and Context

In this episode of The Athletic FC Podcast, host Ayo Akinwolere delves into Liverpool's recent Premier League triumph, exploring how the club plans to build on its current success. Joined by Liverpool correspondents James Pearce and Andy Jones, along with analyst Kim Holderness and football correspondent David Ornstein, the discussion provides an in-depth analysis of Liverpool's journey to the title, the role of manager Arne Slot, and future prospects for the club.

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2. Liverpool’s Dominant Premier League Campaign

Ayo Akinwolere opens the conversation by recalling Liverpool's championship win five years prior during the COVID-19 pandemic, highlighting the unique circumstances that prevented fans from celebrating the title fully ([03:43]). Fast forward to the present season, Liverpool clinched the Premier League title with a commanding 15-point lead over second-placed Arsenal, showcasing unprecedented consistency and dominance.

Andy Jones emphasizes the team's resilience and strategic gameplay throughout the season:

“They pretty much battered [Tottenham] for the rest of the game and sort of were dominant winners. And that was when MacAllister's goal came in; the shackles came off then.” ([06:46])

James Pearce counters narratives that downplay Liverpool's achievement, asserting that their dominance starkly contrasts with rival teams' inconsistencies:

“It's not Liverpool's problem that everyone else has had problems and haven't been able to live with the standards that Liverpool have set.” ([15:21])

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3. Emotional Impact on Fans and the City

The episode delves into the profound emotional impact of Liverpool's victory on both the fans and the city of Liverpool. Comparing the jubilant atmosphere this season to the muted celebrations during the pandemic victory, Simon Hughes describes the scene at Anfield as unparalleled:

“I've never seen Anfield like this... the red smog hanging above it because of all the pyrotechnics. It was incredible.” ([08:19])

Kim Holderness adds to the sentiment, illustrating the collective joy and release of pent-up emotions:

“It was people just going, you know, it was that release of something that's been built up for... nothing compared to this.” ([10:25])

James Pearce reflects on the bittersweet nature of the previous title win during lockdown, contrasting it with the current celebration:

“If you speak to Virgil Van Dijk, Andy Robertson, Trent Alexander Arnold, the old guard... it was just a whole weird occasion compared to Sunday.” ([12:11])

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4. Arne Slot’s Role in the Title Success

A significant portion of the discussion centers around manager Arne Slot and his pivotal role in Liverpool's success. James Pearce credits Slot's tactical acumen and ability to elevate player performance:

“He's elevated them to the next level. He's got the best out of them.” ([19:43])

Kim Holderness highlights Slot's authentic leadership style and strategic decisions that have fostered squad harmony and improved performance:

“He's incredibly authentic... the players loved his attention to detail.” ([22:10])

Arne Slot's calm demeanor and strategic prowess are contrasted with Jurgen Klopp's more passionate approach, illustrating how Slot has successfully integrated into the Anfield hierarchy without trying to emulate Klopp directly.

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5. Tactical and Squad Developments

The podcast explores the tactical shifts under Slot’s management, emphasizing a more controlled and methodical style of play compared to Klopp's dynamic approach. Kim Holderness notes:

“He wants to control games and dictate other teams, making it look more routine.” ([26:20])

James Pearce praises Slot's focus on player fitness and load management, which has resulted in fewer injuries and sustained performance levels:

“He's kept players fit for longer... the difference between night and day.” ([19:43])

The introduction of squad bonding initiatives, such as mandatory breakfast meetings and the creation of a team coffee bar, has been instrumental in fostering team unity. James Pearce mentions:

“The coffee bar has been a huge hit, bringing players together away from the training ground.” ([27:01])

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6. Mo Salah’s Stellar Performance

A highlight of the episode is the discussion of Mohamed Salah's exceptional season. Kim Holderness lauds Salah's dedication and transformative impact on the team's offense:

“He’s taken his game to a new level... He's on course to break another record.” ([30:02])

Ayo Akinwolere underscores Salah's importance to Liverpool’s title run, noting his critical goals and assists that have been central to the team's success.

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7. Future Prospects and Transfer Window Insights

Looking ahead to the summer transfer window, the conversation shifts to how Liverpool plans to consolidate their title success and address areas needing reinforcement.

David Ornstein outlines the anticipated moves, emphasizing the need for a reliable center forward and potential midfield enhancements:

“If Liverpool managed to get a regular number nine, what on earth could they do in domestic and European competition.” ([37:00])

Kim Holderness discusses the challenges in recruiting top-tier strikers like Erling Haaland or Gabriel Jesus, suggesting that Liverpool may explore other viable options to strengthen their frontline:

“There aren’t a lot of number nines out there... Isaac is the obvious name, but Newcastle’s finances make it difficult.” ([42:02])

The panel also touches on potential improvements in midfield and defense, highlighting Liverpool's proactive approach in squad building and succession planning.

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8. Managerial and Administrative Expertise

James Pearce commends Liverpool's administrative leadership under Richard Hughes and Football Executive Julian Ward, recognizing their role in maintaining stability and fostering a collaborative environment:

“Richard Hughes deserves a huge amount of credit... rebuilding the entire structure internally.” ([33:10])

The strategic foresight in contract negotiations, particularly with key players like Mo Salah and Virgil Van Dijk, is noted as a cornerstone of the club's sustained success.

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9. Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with a forward-looking perspective on Liverpool’s ambitions. James Pearce summarizes the necessity for Liverpool to continue evolving:

“There’s not been many goals from a central forward, so that's an area that can definitely be upgraded.” ([43:44])

David Ornstein anticipates a challenging and active transfer window, with Liverpool aiming to reinforce key positions while maintaining financial prudence:

“Liverpool has gone up a level... they're held up as the best in class.” ([40:39])

Ayo Akinwolere wraps up by reinforcing the importance of strategic squad enhancements to maintain Liverpool's competitive edge both domestically and in Europe.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Kim Holderness ([10:25]): “It was people just going, you know, it was that release of something that's been built up for... nothing compared to this.”

• James Pearce ([19:43]): “He's elevated them to the next level. He's got the best out of them.”

• Kim Holderness ([22:10]): “He’s incredibly authentic... the players loved his attention to detail.”

• James Pearce ([33:10]): “Richard Hughes deserves a huge amount of credit... rebuilding the entire structure internally.”

• David Ornstein ([37:00]): “If Liverpool managed to get a regular number nine, what on earth could they do in domestic and European competition.”

• Kim Holderness ([30:02]): “He’s taken his game to a new level... He's on course to break another record.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of Liverpool's Premier League success, attributing much of their achievement to Arne Slot's effective management and strategic squad building. The heartfelt reactions from fans and the city underscore the profound significance of the title win. Looking forward, Liverpool appears poised to continue their dominance, provided they address key areas in their squad and navigate the upcoming transfer window with the same tactical ingenuity that has defined their current season.

Transcript

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[Ayo Akinwalere]

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinwalere. Liverpool are champions five years ago due to Covid and social distancing they were unable to celebrate.

[James Pearce]

The only distance now is the 15 points that Liverpool have at the top of the Premier League.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

So how has Arna Slot done it and what needs to be done for Liverpool to stay at the top next season? All right here with us today we have our Liverpool correspondent James Pearce and Andy Jones, who were both at Anfield on Sunday for the biggest party of the season. James look, five years ago, Liverpool swept all before them in the Premier League, but missed out on the crowning moment and also that moment where they were celebrating in front of their fans. I saw the shots, just the game, it made it on social media. You can see all the broadcasters just zooming out a sea of red outside of the stadium. Bring us up to speed. What was it like? What was that feeling like for the fans to firstly witness their team arriving for what could potentially be a Premier League win, but also when it actually happened. Oh man, I can imagine it was absolute dynamite.

[James Pearce]

Yeah, it was just an absolutely unforgettable day from start to finish, really. I got to Anfield about three hours before the game and it was. I'd never seen scenes like it. Anfield Road was already absolutely rammed. Thousands upon thousands of fans already lining the route to welcome the team coach and it was just something so special about it. And it was. I've never experienced anything quite like Anfield. It was really different. I'd say to the Barcelona fight back in 2019, I think kind of a lot of people say, well look, you're never going to beat that for atmosphere. But I don't know, it felt like Sunday came pretty close because it was different, because you didn't have the jeopardy, I guess, of kind of like the big fight back or whatever. Cause everyone turned up almost knowing what was gonna happen. And Tottenham Julia obliged on that front. But yeah, just the fervor, the jubilation, just the sense of pure joy that was there from start to finish. And as you said, it was given an extra layer because of what everyone missed out on five years ago. For a lot of people inside that stadium, that was the first time they'd ever been able to celebrate a moment like that, to win the league title. You right down in front of them, you know, and that was why the scenes were so, so special.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, I mean, look, Andy, I'm sure you're probably struggling for, for any sort of coherence this morning. I've having probably had not much sleep. But real talk though, you know, Liverpool have been very consistent this season and that game yesterday was really interesting. Obviously Tottenham have been so inconsistent, so I wasn't expecting too much of a disturbance. But what does that tell you about how this team have approached this season in general? And also, I guess the word is consistently approached this season.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, it, it almost encapsulated the entire season that there was a tiny bit of jeopardy in that Tottenham winning the lead. But then ultimately Liverpool pretty much battered them for the rest of the game and sort of were, were dominant winners. And I think that just reflected the, the season because they have been so dominant. And it shows in the, you know, the advantage they've got at the top and the fact that no one's been able to, to really challenge them at all. It's been a foregone conclusion for a long, long time. And I think it was nice I said this in, in. In the sort of on podcast we've done on the walk on is that I wanted Liverpool to win it this way because it's. They can enjoy it and properly probably, you know, look like champions and he looked like champions yesterday. That was a victory of champions. It hasn't necessarily been the case in recent weeks where you think, you know, the strain has sort of got to them of just getting over that line a little bit and performances haven't quite been there. But that was when MacAllister's goal came went in. It was just the shackles came off then and everyone knew that it was sorted basically at that point and was a party from that Point onwards, And I think McAllister defined the performance in a way is that I think he was the man who. The most wanted to win the Premier League in that grand yesterday. And that was pretty hard because. I know, I know for myself anyway, I was pretty, pretty certain I wanted to win that Premier League. So he's done well on that front but he, he epitomized that. He set the tone for it. And yeah, it was, it was that controlled with, with the elements of chaos, of being able to, to rip Tottenham apart at will that encapsulated what we've seen from Liverpool all the way through.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

The season, for sure. Well, in terms of capturing the mood in the city, here's Simon Hughes talking on the dedicated Liverpool podcast. Walk on about the occasion at Anfield on Sunday.

[Simon Hughes]

I've never seen Anfield like this actually, because let's face it, the context behind it is totally different to anything we've seen before. Liverpool could actually win the title at Anfield in front of a full house sentence, the first time since 1990. But then you've got to go back much further to think about sort of a moment like this before, you know, something like this has happened at Anfield, which hasn't happened for such a long time. I mean, there was no nervousness inside the crowd. Even when they went one nil down. There was a sense of caution inside the city. I'd say earlier on in the day, there weren't many people shouting, you know, champions, champions, champions. Like they were at the end of the game. It was, it was, it was more, we're gonna win the league. But I, I just felt that people didn't want to quite get caught out and look a bit silly, you know, but as soon as you got close to the ground, I mean, it was like, I don't know, trying to think of the right, the right words, but it was like going to a cricket match in India, you know what I mean? You know, like, it was like the absolute favor. I mean, I, I had a, I had a quick, a quick shandy in a. In the Grove pub before the game. And in the distance you couldn't see Anfield, but you could see this red smog hanging above it, you know, because of all the, the pyrotechnics. And I was just like, I've never seen that before. A clear day and this redness in the sky, it was, it was incredible.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

James, I'm going to come to you in a second just to talk about the significance of this Premier League title once again for Liver. But just before we go into it, Andy James and Simon recorded that straight after, you know, on the walk up podcast and fireworks are going off in the background and we've obviously spoken about, you know, what it meant for as a football fan just to wait for that Premier League trophy lift or win. But I guess what does this mean for the city as well? Just that release of emotion. Obviously there is a blue side to the city as well, let's not forget. But you know, this was that moment. They've been waiting for this for so long and there were moments where I guess it felt like it might not happen but I guess really realistically so many of us were like it's Liverpool's to win now. But that moment where it's like it's you Liverpool undeniable. Let's have it.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I think, I think the celebrations just reflected it perfectly. It was people just going, you know, it was that release of something that's been built up for, you know, obviously you know, Liverpool won the league five years ago or whatever but there was a certain amount of release that you got from that but nothing, nothing compared to this and just having the freedom, I guess to be able to actually go and celebrate it and, and basically do whatever you want. I sort of took it easy on the drink probably a lot, a lot easier than most people.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Ye way Simon had a shandy. I think he had way more than that, let's be honest.

[Kim Holderness]

But it was like, it was like being drunk on emotion. You know, you just felt everything. You felt everything. It was, you know, the joy, the, the jubilation, the, the relief, the release of everything, the, the reflection of, you know, people who everyone have lost. You haven't been able to experience this and just having that moment to just take it out, take it in and it was just perfect because you could do it during the game, you could do it during, you know, when each player was going up, getting their own chance from the cop and, and then just afterwards as well when everyone was just, you know, hanging from place wondered one, how you get, how you got up there and two, are you getting down? You know, I wonder if there's a few still up there on roofs still struggling to get down this morning. But it was for the city. It's just, just an amazing, from the red side, the red perspective anyway, just an amazing, amazing thing and you know it's just going to continue. It's going to be like that all the way through. And if that was what it was like you know, yesterday, what's it going to be like for the parade and the trophy lift and it's just going to go up levels and you know, it's party time.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah. James, you were one of the lucky few to see Liverpool lift the Premier League trophy through lockdown. What was it like this time around for you to see that happen again? And I know we've talked about the cacophony of fans and talked about the fireworks and the jubilation, but just on a pure emotional sense, like what was so starkly different other than the volume of people? Of course.

[James Pearce]

Yeah, that was why it was just so emotional because of thinking back to that night and I think, you know, Liverpool made the best of it in the circumstances back then and of course many, many people all around the world had much bigger problems at that time than how you were going to celebrate a Premier League title triumph. But it was just a surreal night being there back in July 2020 because lots of people said to me, oh, you're so lucky. I didn't actually feel particularly lucky because I just thought this really isn't how it was meant to be. You know, it was over that 30 year wait, you think in your head of all these possible scenarios of like how is it going to end and what is it going to be like and where do you think it'll be and who will be the person that does it? And of course so many hundreds of players and many managers as well have come and gone and hadn't been able to do that. And then obviously for it to happen and for them to be denied all the trappings that should have come with that achievement, it was bittersweet and I think that's been a factor. Undoubtedly if you speak to Virgil Van Dyke, Andy Robertson, Trent Alexander, Arnold, Alison Becker, the old guard, if you like, that were part of that previous title challenge, even right down to, you know, their families that night were, you know, I think they had to watch the game on a screen inside a lounge and then they were allowed out for the trophy. It was just, it was just a whole weird occasion where they obviously built that plinth, didn't they, in the middle of the cup and they kind of blacked out the vast majority of the ground to try and hide the fact that there was proven to pretty much no one in there. But yeah, if you had an emotional spectrum, I guess you couldn't get to more polar opposites really in terms of what that night was like compared to Sunday and just feeling that collective sense of just pure elation all around Anfield and You know, I left the ground what three hours after the game had finished and Walton Brett Road behind the cop, which, you know, I think it usually opens probably half an hour after the game was still shut because there were thousands upon thousands of people setting off fireworks and flares and people up lampposts and people on roofs and then obvious purely for work purposes. I went into town to see what it was like in town. And I can tell you, I can tell you at 3:00 this morning in town it was still absolutely rammed. A sea of red everywhere. Nobody, nobody wanted to go home because nobody wanted Sunday to end.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, I just wonder what any employer in Liverpool's thinking now. Do you know what? Just happy I'm not seeing any of you today.

[Acast Representative]

Don't you worry.

[Kim Holderness]

It's a bank holiday, it's a ban.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Exactly that. But let's talk about this ignition significance of this change because you know there's another northern team that wear red and now Liverpool have now level on league titles with them and that obviously that team would be Manchester United. So 20 league titles each actually I should say now 15 points lead ahead of Arsenal. This has been quite the season and I think, you know, there were times where we looked at, you know, going out of various cup competitions including the Champions League and we thought, oh, what kind of season is this going to be for Liverpool? But the significance of this Premier League title should not be dismissed. And also how dominant Liverpool have been in the league this season.

[James Pearce]

Yeah, I think there's been a bit of a weird narrative around that because I think in some quarters it's like. Well because there's not really been drama if you like in terms of the running that people have kind of gone, well it's a poor Premier League season. I don't go along with that, you see and I know obviously it comes from rival fans and of course they're going to play down Liverpool's achievement. But it's not Liverpool's problem that everyone else has had problems and that everyone else has had vulnerabilities and haven't been able to live with the standards that Liverpool have set. I could kind of understand the argument if Liverpool had lost five or six times and were still going to be crowned champions. They've lost twice all season and one of those was, was after a 26 game unbeaten run when effectively the title race was, was already done and dusted and they got 82 points. They could end up on 94 points. It's not inconceivable that the margin between them and second place could be over 20 points come the end of that's how dominant they've been. And of course you also have to frame it in the fact that everyone back to last summer was going well. People were saying, oh, Liverpool are facing the toughest transition that any major Premier League club had faced since Alex Ferguson had left united in 2013. So nobody expected that. You only have to look at the pundits predictions. Someone showed me something from the BBC. I think it was 30 pundits with their predictions and not one of them them add Liverpool winning it. I don't think anyone even had them in the top two. That's the context of this triumph. It's just been absolutely remarkable the domination they've shown pretty much from the word go in August.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Well, up next we'll explore just how Arne Slot has made such an impression at Anfield.

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[Ayo Akinwalere]

So 344 days ago, Jurgen Klopp said farewell to Anfield singing Arna Slot's name. Well, on Sunday the Dutchman returned the favor and the compliments. James I mean how impressive has that job been that Arna Slot has done in his first season? I want to talk about Richard Hughes at some point because obviously he was in charge of a point in him, but I mean this is no easy feat. We talk about the team is inherited for sure, but you still have to get the job done. They still have to play efficiently, they still have to be hard to beat.

[James Pearce]

It's far too easy to kind of just say, well, he inherited a very talented squad, which is true to a degree, but you could almost go through those players that have played starring roles and he's elevated them to the next level. You know, he's got the best out of them. And the key has been kind of lasting the pace in a way that Liverpool weren't able to do under Klopp last season. It's a group that were in the title races until probably early April a year ago and then completely kind of capitulated. They ran out of gas and he's just such an understated guy. I had my eyes on Slot when the final whistle went and I thought surely he's going to kind of lose it a little bit in terms of the emotion. And he strolled onto that pitch like it was just any other win and shook hands with the ref, shook hands with the two assistants. And then he was thinking like this guy has just joined the pantheon of Anfield legends by only the third Liverpool manager ever to win the title in his first season in charge. Following the footsteps of Joe Fagan and Kenny D'Glies. And yeah, I mean just in terms of his tactical acumen, there's been so many games where he's made little tweaks, clever substitutions and got the best out of his resources. You speak to the players and from the word go, they loved his attention to detail. It was a bit of a culture shock with all the meetings they had, but, but once they saw that those meetings were worthwhile and they could see the improvement and the development, they bought into that completely. And another big factor which isn't luck is the fact that he's kept players fit for longer. You look at the days Liverpool have lost to injury this time around compared to last year. And it's the difference between night and day that is all to do with it helps. The fact that his style of play and the training schedule is a bit less intense, but also in terms of load management, trusting players with more time off, all the work that goes into the rehab and recovery, it's pure genius what slot has been able to pull off.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

You spoke about the emotion and I think in a post match he spoke about the only emotion he had was when he got to the stadium and he just saw the sea of fans, James, and he was just like, this is what this means to them. And I think something you'd always worry about, especially Jurgen Klopp being such an iconic figure at Anfield and let's not forget a manager that brought the club and the fans back together was how Arnazlot would do that. How do you think he's managed to do it? Because the temperaments are very different out.

[James Pearce]

Of both two managers. Do you know what? How he's done it is by being incredibly authentic. And I think that's one of the most impressive things about the guy is that from the word go, he's not tried to be someone he isn't. I think back to Portman Road when they played Ipswich on the opening weekend and pretty much right after the final whistle we went down the tunnel and I remember speaking to some fans who had. I think they'd got up at 4 o'clock in the morning to make the trip to Portman Road and they were a bit nonplussed because they were like, well, why didn't he come across? Why didn't he celebrate in front of the away end and where are the fist pumps and all the rest of. And when Slot was asked about that, he said, you know that's not me, you know that if, you know I'm not going to be doing justice. Like he said, my bond with the fan base will come hopefully gradually through entertaining successful football. And that's exactly what he's done. I mean he did finally unleash a few fist pumps on Sunday afternoon and a bit of dad dancing in front of the cop as well. But yeah, I thought that was a nice moment in the press conference when he mentioned the out because I think that's probably when the penny would have dropped for him in terms of what him and his staff and that group of players have actually achieved.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, for sure. Andy, look, first Dutchman ever to win a Premier League title, which is amazing. Only the fifth manager in the Premier League history to win a title in their debut season. These are all so impressive when it comes to stats. Now Liverpool have also just quite amazing been at the top of the Premier League since beaten Brighton 21 and Anfield in November. I mean it's been a long time. People forget that now what has made it so routine for them. And you know, James talks about, you know, the style of football he wants to play. Do you think the buy in to implement those ideas was much easier when the players could finally see that what he was saying was actually working?

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah, I think that it is a massive part of it because you, you know every manager comes in and tries to, no matter how big or small the tweaks they try and make, they're still going to change things to make, to try and shape the team in their image. And, and ultimately that is, is, it is kind of what defines a manager's role particularly in those early seasons is if you don't get the buy in you've got no open. You basically calm down the days until you moved on. And when you're trying to replace a figure as big as Klopp, we've seen it at other clubs that it is very, very difficult to replace a figure who has become the club essentially and sort of that single dominating figure. I think when you come in and you can impress the players with the way you want to work and the methods and you sort of, you're not completely ripping up a script that is ultimately working because Liverpool were in a position to win, you know, challenge for the league title last season. So I think when you, when you bring that all together, you know, I think that that helps him, you know, become routine because it is, you get into that, that rhythm of this is working and let's continue to, to do it this way because ultimately this is going to get us where we want to go. And obviously, you know, not having the, the sort of title challenges as you probably helped make it look even more routine. But ultimately Liverpool have still had the job job to, to do every time they've gone out on the pitch. And you know, that unbeaten run sort of shows that regardless of what adversity they faced, they showed that they can win them in loads of different ways. And I think that's another part of the, the sort of jigsaw if you like because Liverpool kind of got a little bit cliched on the club. That sort of every win seemed to be this, you know, gigantic effort to, to get over the line and you know, you go behind and then come back and you know the emotions of it all. And where is this one? You know, they've sort of got in control of games and. And ultimately the style of play makes it feel more ro. Klopp's was. And you know, there's no right or wrong way to do it because Klopp won a league playing sort of much more sort of chaotic football. But even, even his team at that point had turned into a bit more of a methodical side. But you know, Slot has got a team that wants control and you know, is. Wants to dictate other teams. And so when they're doing that and when they're sort of comfortable at 1 nil playing on their terms rather than sort of sometimes the gung ho of everyone run 16 million miles an hour and see what happens, which is what it looked like at. I think that helped. That helps it look more routine as well because they've just. They've looked so sort of robotic sometimes in the way they've just gone about it. But you know, it's still been enjoyable and. And that's showed in the number of goals that they've been scoring as well.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, for sure. James, I just wonder if you can just give us a little insight into sort of how Slot has kind of brought together this squad in terms of a squad harmony really. Because I think about the back end of Jurgen Klopp's time at Liverpool and you know, let's not forget those little spats with Mo Salah on the sidelines. Do you remember that as it was coming under the substitute, they were sort of chatting to each other, slightly underperforming. Konate being one of those players and things like that, you know, how has Slot managed to bring it together? Because you wrote this piece, how Liverpool won at the Premier League featuring Dire Straits Coffee club and one big outburst. There's. I didn't even know about the coffee shop. There's like a little coffee shop, a coffee bar where they all sort of sit down and have. Have chats together. Is that down to Slot? Is that down to the Fenway Group in itself?

[James Pearce]

That was, that was a Michael Edwards idea actually. Yeah, that was I think inspired by having visited a number of Serie A clubs over the years, in particular Roma apparent. Yeah, they just thought it would be a great idea to try, I think just to try and look in at little areas where you can kind of just encourage players to spend more time together away from the training ground. And it's been great. The barista Alex has proved to be One of the sign ins of the season in terms of bringing people together and yes, I think Salah and Zzbozlay are two of his best customers. But yeah, I mean there's loads of little things, you know, slot obviously you know, one of the things he brought in was made it compulsory for the players to have breakfast together in the canteen at the AXA training center. And you know, things like, you know, no longer staying in the hotels the night before home games and even for some of the close away games they've done the same because he just thinks, you know, you sleep better in your own bed and you know, and again that went down really well with the players because especially those with young families, you know, it just has meant less time away from home and yeah, just, I think just that trust and freedom with the extra days off, being able to do, you know, their rest and recovery away from Kirby and the trust that he's shown in them, they've repaid over and over again with, with performances and, and But I think the biggest thing when you speak to the players is just his sheer quality as a coach. I think that's what enabled everyone to buy into it so early on. I mean I think back to being on the preseason tour in America last July and Curtis Jones did a press conference over there and he was so overly positive about the new training sessions. That kind of. Some people perceive that to almost be a slight on Klopp which. And obviously afterwards Curtis was mortified because he was like oh no, no, people took it the wrong way, you know, I owe Clop everything. Of course it wasn't, it wasn't a slight on that but it was just, it just underlined how it was like they just love this injection of freshness and new ideas. And to be fair, Klopp said that himself when he was stood on the pitch at Anfield. When he said farewell, you know, he said that, you know, the new energy and new ideas and new voices he thought would take Liverpool to the next level. And I think at the time people thought well that sounds a bit wildly optimistic because you're having to replace an icon. But it actually proved to be pretty prophetic.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, for sure Andy. I don't know if it's the coffee that's done it but Mo Salah's season, let's face it, has been absolutely spellbind. And you think about pre season as well? You know, I realized when Slot took over he must have inherited players who were at the Copa America and also playing at the Euros. But you Know Mo Salah, thankfully, because Egypt went in international duties, had a nice rest, which is sort of reflected into what we've seen this season. How fitting was it that he scored yesterday and also had to take that little picture, that selfie with the fans as a sort of reconnection of the synergy between him and this club.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. What a fella, mate. I think it's a. He sort of encapsulated it all. I mean, ultimately is the uber professional and he, you know, he's taken this, this very, very seriously. You know, he does every season. But he, he's sort of been banging the. It feels like he was the one banging the title drum sort of first, you know, talking about it in interviews and, and sort of setting. Setting the marker down. This is what we want to do. And yeah, I think, you know, there's, there's been slight tweaks to his game in this season. Obviously. I think he admitted it himself. He basically. He takes defending off. He do that ultimately slot, has built the attack around him and I think I really liked what he said yesterday. I think it was something along the lines of, you know, if, if I don't have to do anything defensively, then I'll pay you back offensively. And it's exactly what he's done. I mean, you see all the records he's broken, you know, more records. He just. Every season there's 8, 9, 10 more that he breaks. You know, he's, he's. He's on course to break another. And there was absolutely no way that Mo Salah wasn't getting on the score she yesterday. He's obviously not been in the greatest goals going for him, but yeah, there was absolutely no chance that he was going to. On. On this day of all days, given he's, you know, he's buil up and talked about it so much himself, about how much this means, how much he's wanted it for the fans, for himself to. To be able to celebrate it because he was one of the, the ones who, who wasn't able to do it properly when, when they won it, you know, five years ago. So, yeah, his output's been incredible. You know, arguably he's taken his game to a new level this year, which is, you know, incredible given his age, where, you know, there was question marks. You know, just back in the last season you mentioned before when, you know, he was having a bit of a struggle, you know, was this sort of the end of Salah, what was. What was going to happen? But he's come back and been know he's. I think he's one away from equal in the number of goal involvements, isn't he? I think I'd be amazed if he's not breaking that record by the end of this season. And just, just the goal itself was, was, was classic. Salah didn't go for the cured one to be fair. Into the far corner which is as.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Usual expect bread and butter.

[Kim Holderness]

Yeah. So he took the keeper by surprise and that but that's, that's it. He's always finding new ways to, to score or you know, the assists. Oh.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

James has not heard the name. Salah went for it.

[Kim Holderness]

I think he's just got in the dog there. He's. Yeah, so, and, and Salah. Yeah you know again just finding new ways. You know the assists have rocketed up again this season. Who he's. He's always been a creator but sort of gone under the radar. But even that's come to the forefront as well this season. So yeah, just. Yeah, what a fella. That's all I can say about him. And you know he signed that new contract and just hopefully it continues because I'm looking forward to watching them break more records in the next two years and hopefully enjoying some more selfies in front of the cop with Sophie Hughes on the way.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah man. James, I, I hope the dog likes the name Richard Hughes because I'm about to drop that one right now. Look. Oh he does as well.

[James Pearce]

He does as well.

[Kim Holderness]

He loves it, loves it.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Proper Liverpool fan but you know, you know we, we, I mentioned it at the top but we have to credit Richard Hughes, you know, obviously coming to come for a bit of flack in terms of what happens with the contracts of Salah Van Dijk and obviously Trent Alexander Arnold. But let's not forget one of the most important contracts he'd have had to sign is for Arne Slot if in his first season season he's won the Premier League for Liverpool.

[James Pearce]

Yeah, I think Richard Hughes deserves a huge amount of credit because you're right when you think back to when Slot got the job there were a lot of people asking questions and saying really? That feels like a gamble. Yes, this guy has done well at Feyenoord but he'd never managed outside of Holland. We weren't short of examples of fellow countrymen of his that had come to the Premier League with big reputations and had fallen short of expectations. So yeah, I mean he absolutely nailed, nailed that in terms of finding the right successor to Klopp. And also despite all the Sagas. I think he also has wrapped up two of the three major contract situations and I think it was the two that were always the most realistic to get a positive conclusion too in terms of sorting out those two year extensions for Mo Salah and Virgil Van Dijk. And it goes beyond that as well, I think with Richard Hughes. Because when you speak to the people at Liverpool and you have to be careful because it's, it's not, it's not really a slight on what was before, but they just say that it's a really pleasant working environment and it's, I think what is different is it's a lot more collaborative and a lot more kind of a collegiate way of working now with different departments trusted, you know, expertise in certain areas, you know, given the responsibility to make key decisions. And, and it's, and I just think a lot of that stems from Richard Hughes. And you know, you almost go back a bit before that in terms of Michael Edwards obviously was the man responsible for appointing Richard Hughes and he was, you know, he was convinced that he was the right man for the job. But it's, yeah, Hughes, you know, he's, he's the day to day you know, operator at the axa. He's the one who kind of has just rebuilt that entire structure internally that has taken Liverpool to such heights.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Right, let's move on because next we'll look ahead at what's to come this summer for Liverpool.

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[Ayo Akinwalere]

Joining us now to look ahead to the summer is our football correspondent David Ornstein. David, look we saw Liverpool wrap up the title on Sunday with four games to go. How beneficial could that be in terms of preparing ahead of the summer transfer window?

[Acast Representative]

Well I think they were already becoming a destination club. That's pretty clear by the fact that since the days of certain players. Alexis Sanchez springs to mind turning down Liverpool and Merseyside to sign for Arsenal. And it was said that this part of the country where I speak to you from now and so do the guys is not attractive. Well, quite to the contrary because Liverpool's football team and club have have shown that it is the place to play and there are other places in world football but Liverpool is is right up there. Now that's also underlined by the fact that they pay extremely high competitive wages. Look at their salary bill. It's up there with the biggest club, World Football that's allowed them to obtain and retain some of the best players in world football. And it was reiterated by the fact that they got the two key contract renewals over the line in Virgil Van Dyken and Mohamed Salah. It hasn't been the case with Trent Alexander Arnold, but that's completely different. And now if you're a player in the market at another club looking at the possibility of joining Liverpool, your eyes will probably light up now their atmosphere, their history, the emotion of that club and the cop and the fan base and your chances success has been clear for all to see for a long time. But this really does feel a club in a, in a fantastic moment and the foundations were really laid by Jurgen Klopp under the ownership of FSG post that disastrous period under the watch of Hicks and Gillette and it's been a glorious episode in their history when we look at Champions League finals and titles, Premier League twice now, domestic cup competitions as well. And so I don't think they'll have much trouble convincing players to come to Anfield to play under Arne slot to partner the sort of teammates and with no disrespect to Jurgen Klopp, they seem to have gone up a level. It seems to be an even happier place. And he predicted that in his speech in the dressing room after his final match of the season. These players, players can reach new heights and get to new levels of excellence and it has panned out like that, which is a credit largely to the hierarchy and the stability at the top as James has just touched upon now they not only have that on their side but they have very skilled negotiators. Michael Edwards of CEO of Football Fenway Sports Group and then Julian Ward is in the mix as well now and he was even name checked by Alexis McAllister in his post match interview last night as a reason that he's at the club. You've got Richard Hughes, you've got David Woodfine, his assistant. You've got a great data team led by Will Spearman, you've got a great scouting team led by Barry Hunter. It wasn't so long ago that this transfer committee, as it was being labeled in the public, was derided by many the laughing stock. And it couldn't be more different. Now they're held up as the example, the best in class and that will stand them in really good stead for this summer because they've got finances at their disposal by the fact that they've kept their powder dry from last summer. They will have their plans in place. They've had longer to work on them and I would expect them to execute those plans now. Again, nothing is to be taken for granted. But what is more of a calling card than saying that you're the joint record English champions and you can play for Arne Slot in front of that crowd and you've got every chance of going on to the success of your career.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, fantastic. Talk about tempting players, James, do you reckon they could tempt Trent Alexander Arnold just to. Just to stay a little longer? You know, I saw him standing there as everyone was singing, you never walk alone. I could just see him taking it in. Do you think that's just twisted his.

[James Pearce]

Arm a little bit? I don't know. Well, I think if anything was going to convince him to stay put, then it would be Sunday, wouldn't it? Because I think if this is the end of Tren Alexander Arnold's Liverpool career, then I think someday, if he didn't know it already, would certainly have kind of laid bare what he'd be walking away from because you could see what those scenes meant to him. And I thought it was A real nice touch that he was serenaded by the cop individually when all the players were getting the treatment amidst the celebrations. Because I think regardless of what happens beyond the back end of May, he deserves it. He's devoted 20 years of his life to Liverpool. So yeah, we're still waiting clarity on that. You know, it's long since been the case that we expected him to, to join Real Madrid. But of course until absolutely everything is finalized, that door is just slightly ajar. But yeah, he's, he certainly played his part and I think, you know, the fact that his all the way through, you know, his commitment despite all the speculation has never wavered. And that's why, you know, the attitude towards him inside the ground has largely remained so positive despite the contract saga.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Fantastic. Very quickly, Andy, 80 goals in 34 games. This, but no real, I'd say recognizable center forward Mo Salah has been doing a lot of that work. You know, other players have been doing a lot of that work. Do they need a center forward? Is that the style that Liverpool need? Because obviously I don't want to put Darling with Nunez under the bus, but he just hasn't hit the heights that you'd have expected him to after such a huge transfer fee.

[Kim Holderness]

I think they do. The question, the main question is what type of number nine they want. Because we've seen Slot essentially try to do different types this season and, and sort of settle on the guy who's not a number nine, which is Diaz, which is sort of have been. Has become the main number nine for him or the one he trusts the most. Yeah. Nunes has just continued that inconsistency unfortunately that has played them throughout his Liverpool career. And Dugo Jota has obviously got the injury problems that he's, you know, always seems to, to pick up, which is a real shame. And since he's come back from his, you know, his latest sort of layoff has looked a shadow of the player, you know, the Liverpool fans know he can be at times. So you feel like that's an area that can definitely be upgraded because you know, there's not been many goals, you know, in terms of output from position and, and if you were to add another 10, 15 for example, on top of, you know, what Liverpool have already achieved this season. It's. It's a scary thought for opposition defenses. The big issue is that there's not a lot of number nines out there. You know, obvious candidates are. Isaac's the obvious sort of name, but obviously getting him out of Newcastle is probably, you know, Going to be really, really difficult if not impossible. So yeah it's a really interesting, interesting one going into the summer of what exactly slot is looking for in that number nine outside of goals and work rates because there's more nuance to that obviously. So yeah that's one to monitor because it does feel like that's an obvious area to upgrade.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

David on that in terms of requirements we took look at the center forward position but also let's not forget midfield as well. I know Gravenberg has filled in beautifully but there was a time that Liverpool were looking at Martin Zubamendi and he turned them down even though they matched the transfer fee. So where is that now? Do they need more attention there as well? Just to boost that for next season.

[Acast Representative]

I'll start on the striker picking up from Andy. There is an expectation that Darwin Nunes will leave and so Liverpool will need to bring somebody in in that position you assume. It's scary to think if Liverpool managed to get a goal scorer what on earth they could do in domestic and European competition. I do think Isak would be the one that Liverpool would look to as would Arsenal, Mikel Arteta and many other clubs. It's less realistic to think it's going to happen though because if Newcastle qualify for the Champions League I think it's not even a conversation they don't qualify for the Champions League. Maybe there is a window of opportunity but I don't think it really changes the price much of the transfer fee let alone the salary request and agents commissions. And any club that's going to commit to that level of resource if indeed there's any opportunity is basically going to use all of their budget on that player. And there have been some injury concerns in the past and that's why the realism is very different to the sort of fantasy on that one. And so Liverpool and Arsenal and other clubs will be considering other options for that position and we'll have to wait and see how it develops. To your midfield question. Martin Zubamendi was treated by Liverpool as a market opportunity rather than a must have in that position. And so they wanted him and when they couldn't get him they kept their powder dry. And lo and behold Ryan Gravenberch stepped up to the four and kind of fills the requirement that was there. So I don't think you necessarily bring somebody in on top of what's already there. But if there was a deal that took somebody like Endo away then I think Liverpool would look to bring somebody in in that position. So they'll be quite calm in the midfield and open to again opportunities. And you know, Liverpool have so many ideas that none of us report or, or even hear about. They're, they're shrewd market operators. If you expand outside those positions, we know that a left back is on the agenda and Milos Kirkes is one of the players that they're looking at. They won't be the only club in the frame for him. We've heard Manchester City, Real Madrid like him, but I think they're in quite a strong position. It would require, I think, one of those that are already there to leave in the case of Andy Robertson across acas. So a bit needs to happen there but we know it's an area of focus. Then right back will be interesting because they don't necessarily have that as high a priority as left back. But if and when Trent Alexander departs and, and we expect him to join, joined Real Madrid as a free agent. Sorry to pop the balloons and burst the bubble, but that is the direction of travel and for me it seemed like a sort of perfect ending of fairy tale. I was so pleased to see him get such a magnificent ovation and deservedly so. He's dedicated his life to that club since what, the age of six or seven. He's won pretty much everything there is to win. And if life is to go on without him, which we anticipate it will, then Liverpool have good internal options. But you do see the Conor Bradley injury situation and think to yourself, myself, maybe if there's the opportunity to add depth there, they will. I don't necessarily think that would happen as quickly as say the left back. And then there's the central defense. And we know that they are firm admirers of Dean Hoisen. That's one they're in a strong position on. They do have rivals, the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea. Everybody in that mix has pros and cons. If Real Madrid decided to come to the party, which they haven't so far, then we know that that's an attraction to him since childhood and that could change everything. But they're not at the moment the likes of Newcastle and Tottenham in the mix too. But Liverpool, the attraction of playing regular first team football alongside Virgil van Dijk. And there's uncertainty around Ibrahima Konate's contract. If they don't manage to get an agreement with him, would he be sold? Or would FSG show what they've shown with the last two major contracts and let it go into its final 12 months? I think there are big questions about Luis Diaz, a player I couldn't have more admiration for. But there's been no new contract since he sign from Porto. There's been no real sign of one so far. There's plenty of admiration elsewhere. We had Manchester City last summer. Barcelona have always been in the equation for him. And then of course there's going to be Marmodashvili coming in. So what's going to happen with the goalkeeping equation? Alisson's been playing out of his skin. Does Kelleher go and play regular first team football elsewhere? And that's why many of us are reporting that a busy summer awaits for Liverpool. Their finances are in good shape, some significant decisions need to be made and that's why for all the tests that Richard Hughes and the hierarchy have passed in their first year, they're going to keep coming and they need to keep delivering and with Arneslot as well make sure Liverpool remain competitive and at the top.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

Yeah, competitive and at the top. Really interesting there from David James. What do you think? You know, 2019 after winning the Champions League players like Adrian van der Berg came in, Harvey elliott and then 2020 after winning the Premier League you're looking at Thiago, Diogo, Jota, Timikas. I mean when Liverpool are now looking to bring new players in, does it have to be from that position of strength as opposed to players that could just sort of fit the mold? Do you need some superstars in this team?

[James Pearce]

Yeah, there's definitely an injection of quality required and yeah, David's right, it is going to be a busy summer for Liverpool I think. I think that's been clear for quite a long time because as good as they've been this season season, I don't think anyone ever looked at this team and this squad and thought well that is built now for the next two, three, four years. It was always going to need some surgery. They took what proved to be a very shrewd decision to not make changes last summer because I think they felt that because it had been such a rush in terms of so many changes behind the scenes that it made sense to sit tight. You didn't have all the usual preparation that would go into a transfer window and Slot was very pleased with what he was inheriting quality wise. But he said himself Slot that they've been busy behind the scenes for months and months now trying to tee things up for the summer because as David said, Andy Robertson, the age of 31, it's about succession planning. It's quite clear that Cinemacass isn't the long term answer there. So you need another option there. If as expected Trent goes, you need another option at right back because Conor Bradley in his career so far hasn't put together 5, 10, 15 appearances back to back at centre back. You need more depth. If Liverpool are serious about competing on all fronts next season then obviously I think probably the biggest thing is going to be where they go in terms of a number nine because you know they've effectively won the league without a regular number nine who's been chipping in, who've been so reliant on Salah's goals and assists. I think you're looking at a minimum of four, maybe five new faces to come in this summer and that's what's needed to ensure that they build on this.

[Acast Representative]

There'll also be money raised as well as the financial position they're in. So when we talk about some of the aforementioned names, Liverpool seem to be pretty adept at generating funds and it's a shame to say it because he's, he's such a talent but he deserves to be playing regularly someone like Harvey Elliott. I think there's a, A, a real possibility that he moves on this summer and it would be a great coup for whoever gets him. But I also think Liverpool pool could get a big return on him and for a relatively small outlay and there will be other young players that they consider such scenarios with such as like a Ben do who has attracted strong interest in in the January window. So it's not only you know what Liverpool are going to do with, with first team players in, in potential outgoings but they'll also be grateful to the work of their youth system and the academy, many of whom we saw excelling in the League cup final last season. Who could really boost the coffers in a way that puts Liverpool in one of the strongest positions in the market. And yet I'm sure they will still be bringing players through who can compete for the first team and that makes it a sort of really good time now for Liverpool in the present but also potentially in the future too. And it needs to be because the competition's going to be so fierce. Manchester City are unlikely to have a season like they did this time yet it may still finish with Champions League qualification and an FA cup trophy. You're going to have Manchester United fighting back. Arsenal have been up there for three years now. Chelsea are determined to be in the mix. You've got newer rivals such as the Aston Villas and Newcastles of this world. So if Liverpool are going to remain at the forefront, they've got to make some tough calls, not only on inbound players, but outgoing as well.

[James Pearce]

Brilliant.

[Ayo Akinwalere]

All right, cheers gents for your time. That was absolutely brilliant. James, Andy and David as well as when to you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

[Acast Representative]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavro and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aiden Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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