Laurie Whitwell (2:05)

The Athletic.

Ayo Akimolere (2:06)

FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Manchester United's first victory at Anfield since 2016 was a massive moment, but how does Reuben Amarim ensure this isn't another false dawn? All right, in for this one we've got Laurie Whitwell, part of the Manchester United podcast team, talking the Devils. We've also got Mark Critchley as well, who's our Manchester writer. Laurie, we have to get into this so it took Reuben Amarim just under a year to get back to back Premier League wins. This must have been a massive moment.

Laurie Whitwell (2:44)

Yeah, I mean an embarrassing statistic that Harry Maguire spoke about after the game. I think the key to it was to be fair given how much focus has been on his suppose stubbornness to the system that he's got was adaptability, you know in terms of that way of playing against Liverpool. Direct takes out their press and then let's work off the second balls. And there were some really nice moves actually in the final third and you know in that midfield area to kind of pick their way through. Not least the opening goal where you know they set out their stall. Absolutely. With Lomonds kicking it first time over to the touchline. Then it worked its way back to him and then he goes more central and you know they weren't really contesting the the balls in the air. They were kind of letting Liverpool do it for them really. And then the ball balls back into midfield and Bruno you've got them all gathered around there. Mount and Kunyuan and Bumo Ahmad out on the right wing. And I think that was actually a real example of how he can be an effective right wing back because him and Boomer were good, good understanding and he was getting on the ball in an advanced position and that then pushes opposition teams back where they've got a back four and actually you've got two real wingers attacking the left back in the left side of center half so. But Liverpool struggled with that all afternoon and yeah, I mean he will be absolutely elated. I'm sure that he's caught that monkey off his back with the back to back wins. But now it's all about actually building on that and getting some real momentum in the team because it's been far too long waiting for this.

Ayo Akimolere (4:08)

Yeah Chris. It felt like an improbable victory in many respects based on the history, based on the fact that Manchester United rarely get anything from Anfield. Were you surprised when you saw that lineup?

Mark Critchley (4:18)

I was a little bit surprised because I feel like the headline news was clearly Cesko dropping out of the lineup after two goals in his last two Premier League games. After sort of establish himself at following his sign in big money signing in the summer. But we have seen Amarim make rotations to that front line. It was Kunyu dropped out against Sunderland before and it seems like he's ready to mix and match depending on what he expects from the opponent. And to be fair to Amarim, his. His explanation before the game was that he felt that Kunya could give offer something different in terms of moving the ball up the pitch. I think the question was were United still going to stick with this really direct approach that we've seen for them and all those long kicks that we've seen some of Lands doing his last in his first two appearances as a United player. Personally looking at that I felt like surely they're just going to lose the ball here. Surely you know Van Dijk and Kanati are going to deal with that and then Liverpool will be right on top of them. But it was quite a brave move by Amrum to actually, okay, we'll sacrifice that. We'll let those two Liverpool center backs win the ball in the air but we'll be on hand to pick up those second balls. As Laurie mentioned in his answer. And I thought United were really effective at that. And it's a. It's a risky strategy because if you just looked at Senna Lammens and his long kicks up the field, vast majority of them were unsuccessful. But there was another game that was being played in the middle of that part where United could jump right on top of them, win the second ball and then get on the counterattack. And you saw that work perfectly with the inside 62 seconds or whatever it was. Starting off like that and getting a real early goal really helped United was probably the best thing they could do because it meant that then the. The game was set and it was essentially their ability on the counter attack versus Liverpool's attempt to try and break them down. And I think that really suited United for the rest of the game. And look, you look at the stats at the end, Liverpool absolutely had their chances. United rode their look. You're always going to have to do that to a certain extent at Anfield. And despite all the xg, despite all the shots, despite if you play that game, 99 simulations, maybe Liverpool win all, all 99 of them. But this was the one time that they wouldn't. You still came away from that game feeling that United deserved the result and deserved the three points because it was a tactical plan that Ambroom put into practice. And it worked. It got the result.

Ayo Akimolere (6:24)

Yeah, we talked about Lammens and we've spoken about that directness for Manchester United. So you can't underestimate the impact of some of the summer signings, Laurie. But you've dedicated your match piece to the one and only Harry Maguire. Honestly, match winner. Talk to me about that.

Laurie Whitwell (6:38)

I just felt the, the way the game climaxed there was, as Kitcher said There lots to it and really interesting facets of it. But ultimately it came down to Harry Maguire back in by Fernandez. Quite astonishing bit of skill from Fernandez, although I think he said that he didn't aim for Maguire particularly, just that kind of area of the box. And Maguire's got that ability to sense where the ball might be heading. We've seen this goal from him before, not least against Leon for example in the 5 4. That was another dramatic occasion that he rescued. That was Casemiro putting the ball to the back post in that instance. Yeah, delicts and Dorgoo sort of just lurking behind him. I mean Liverpool really did neglect that far post. Think it was sobusly this kind of soul man there and a couple of other players, Curtis Jones being one of them, were sensing a counter attack opportunity. Whereas you know, United I think felt they could still get another goal. And yeah, Maguire's the guy in that situation. I mean his list of goals that he's now scored for United in this last year really, you know, you think of even the Grimsby game where okay, they lost on penalty shootout, but that would have been a huge goal if they'd been able to turn that round into a victory given the. The circumstances of Reuben AM's position at that point. There's the Leicester FA cup game, there's an Ipswich game, there's a Porto equalizer. You know, that was big for 10 Hag when he was in charge last season. So Maguire's got this ability, this calmness I think in those moments to just do what he knows he needs to do. And I just thought that he was, you know, a kind of great symbol of that performance. Not least again because he was a surprise inclusion perhaps given Lenny Yoro had started the game against Sunderland and he's seen as the future for Manchester United. Whereas Maguire I suppose is from that previous regime. But you know, Amaran trusted in all that experience that he's got and he certainly repaid him, you know, communication. He was heading a lot of things away even in United's own box. So that security that he provided I thought was a real point to reference. And just his story overall, you know, the fact that he's had so much criticism in the years gone by, I mean he's kind of been redeemed qu successfully now and this is now just solidifying his status almost as a bit of a cult figure, maybe a bit of a folklore figure. You know, he's not got the trophies and the, the. The. The kind of glittering career at United that other people that you Consider legends have got. But he's certainly in that bracket of being a very fondly remembered person for these kind of contributions and the way that he's approached his game and, and the way that he has fought back from that criticism and that scrutiny. I thought his celebration was hilarious. Sort of going over to Liverpool fans. Fans. I think in. In hindsight we spoke to him after the game. We would have rather have probably gone over to Bruno and you know, thanked him for his assistant, then really soaked up the scene with the away fans. But he did that after the game as well. They were singing his name. So I just thought as a image of redemption and then allied to Reuben Amarin and what that goal could mean for his own arc at United when he's been so scrutinized and so questions about actually remaining at the club. I thought there was a real synergy between the two of them.

Ayo Akimolere (9:42)

Yeah, Laurie talks about the future of United in someone like Lenny Yoro critic. But also I want to come back to the keeper Lamons great performance, talked about his direct goal kicks and all that kind of stuff. But also, if I'm honest with you, I knew nothing of this guy before he came to United. I'm not sure many Man United fans would have known much about him. But I did a bit of research. I saw this is also a keeper that doesn't just save stuff, he scores goals as well. Tell us a bit more about him.

Mark Critchley (10:09)

Yeah, no, I think he is a little bit under the radar. I think. 23 resolved. Signed from Royal Antwerp this summer and a deal up to 22 million pounds. He's only really had one season as a, as a starting goalkeeper and that being at Antwerp in Belgium last year. But he was stand out really for in terms of his metrics, underlying data, expected goals prevented that sort of thing. So he's rated as one of the best young goalkeepers in Europe based on that one single season he is previously known. The reason why he was known in Belgium football before that was because as you mentioned when he was at Club Bruga in their youth system, he actually scored a last minute equalizer against Real Madrid which sent him through to the next round of the UA for youth league. So it was like Alisson at West Brom before Alison at West Brom. I think it was just like maybe, maybe a year or so before that.

Laurie Whitwell (11:08)

Whoa, whoa. It's like Peter Schmeichel against Rotor Volgograd.

Mark Critchley (11:10)

Sorry.

Laurie Whitwell (11:11)

Come on, you've got to keep the Peter Schmeichel.

Ayo Akimolere (11:13)

That's a better comparison.

Mark Critchley (11:14)

Yeah. We go, this isn't talking of Devils anymore, Laurie.

Laurie Whitwell (11:17)

We've got to be in general.

Mark Critchley (11:21)

But no. So, yeah, this moment was shared widely on social media and he sort of made his name off that within Belgian football. But I still think he was a little bit of an unknown, certainly in England. Right. Last week I spent my time speaking to people who've known him, who've worked with him before. He wasn't always a goalkeeper, so I'm talking about his relative inexperience in terms of playing for a full season as a starting goalkeeper. He wasn't always a goalkeeper anyway. He used to be a striker when he was a kid. He was one of the best strikers his age group. And people would mention to me, that's why he had that timing to see on the. On the corner that he scores. That's why he can judge the flight of the ball. That's why he can. Mate.

Ayo Akimolere (11:57)

It was a nice head.

Mark Critchley (11:58)

It was like a glancing head to the near post. Bang. Exactly. But you can see that as well, I think, in. In how confident he is coming to claim crosses. That was a big thing from his debut against Sunderland and something that had everybody inside Old Trafford giving slightly ironic cheers and comparing him to Puzzis. Michael. Because United fans have just been desperate for a goalkeeper with that sort of authority. He is still, like I say, inexperienced. He only became a goalkeeper because at the youth team that he was in, they used to substitute all the outfield players and he was sick of being substituted. So he put his hand up and said, I want to go in goal. And then his dad enrolled him in a goalkeeper camp to try and convince him that, no, you don't actually want to play this position, son. It's not that fun. And he loved it. So he kept playing in it. That's the reason he's a goalkeeper. I mean, he didn't like the running and training as well. I was told that was another factor. But he's someone. We do these pieces on the athletic quite often. I actually found him someone to quite. It was quite difficult to dig real nuggets of golden information about him because he comes across. And the impression that I was given of him speaking to people is that he's someone who's so almost entirely focused on his game and football and, you know, being the best goalkeeper that he can be. One of the stories that I got told was that his. His manager in the club, Burger you set up. We sat in his office one night at about 10, 11pm, just working, overlooking the gym, and then he Saw the light come on in the gym and it was Senna Lammons turning up to do a training session at 11pm at night because he was sat at home bored out of his mind, thinking what else am I going to do apart from go, go and do a gym session at 11pm or go to sleep. So he's going to gyms extremely. Not go to sleep, not go to sleep. So he's somebody who's completely dedicated to his craft. He just wants to be the best goalkeeper that he can be, who really doesn't have many other distractions outside of that. And I think everything that I'm saying now will be music to United fans.

Ayo Akimolere (13:47)

It is.

Mark Critchley (13:47)

Because that's the type of, type of goalkeeper they've wanted. Given all the struggles with Bonana, given all the difficulties that they've had, they just want a solid, dependable presence in there. He's not the finished package yet. I think that's important to say. He's going to make mistakes, all goalkeepers do. He's still very young. There was even a few moments on Sunday I thought was that high ball that he caught and he grassed out the air, but you'd almost move too far in front of it. And there was little moments like that where you just know he's still trying to get the right rhythm. He's going to make mistakes, as I say, but he's somebody who's absolutely focused on being the best goalkeeper that he can be. And I think that's exactly what United need.

Ayo Akimolere (14:21)

Okay, let's move on to the more established names that came in this summer. And Buemo Cunha, I mean they were excellent in that game. Laurie, are we beginning to see how Ruben Amarin wants to utilize these two very, very talented attacking players?

Laurie Whitwell (14:36)

Yeah, I mean Kunya was the big talking point I suppose in terms of the lineup because we just assumed really that Cesco would retain his place given his started last two Premier League games, scored those goals. The direct approach was going to be something that United utilized, it felt like, but instead of going sort of toe to toe with Liverpool, I kind of looked at it as like a boxing match really, where you've got this expectation of, you know, a guy that comes forward and just punches and punches. And that was sort of suppose the direct approach with Sesko on the flick ons that we saw against Chelsea and Sunderland and Boomer running in behind. Whereas actually they decided to sort of just take a step back briefly and then counterpunch really with Liverpool, where you know, you've got Kunya there in that number 10 role. I know he's the striker but he was more than happy to drop deeper and kind of pick up the ball and run with it. And that's what kind of confused Liverpool really. And Cunha was essential to that plan working. I was a little bit surprised maybe that Liverpool on occasion was. Didn't just let the ball run through. I mean maybe they could have just sort of gone for a header but then, you know, step back and it just runs through to Mamadashvili. But it felt like they were just that they were so confused by what United were doing that they kind of kept on with what they were customary going to do, which, you know, go and attack the ball and then that was sort of perfect for United to pick up and. But it requires then skillful players with a good first touch with ability to keep hold of the ball in tight spaces to make that really effective. And Cunha certainly has that ability. He shone in the second half, didn't he, later on really when he was picking up the ball, ball in these sort of deeper positions and running with it. I did, I did sort of look because the eye sort of test told me that he was dribbling with it quite frequently and maybe this was one of the standout occasions for him to do so but. But no, it wasn't really. But I think he did something like four dribbles. Let me just double check that. I'm right on that.

Ayo Akimolere (16:21)

Can I just say I come. I commend the fact that you're looking at stats as you're talking.

Laurie Whitwell (16:25)

Is that all right? Sorry, this is some broadcast.

Ayo Akimolere (16:28)

I rate any good broadcasting techniques. That's live on the podcast on it.

Mark Critchley (16:33)

Laurie, keep someone say he didn't prepare, but still.

Laurie Whitwell (16:35)

Well, this is it. Reserve your praise because I've got the number wrong there. It was actually two dribbles against Liverpool. It was. I had to go from four to two. It was four against Arsenal from Konya. So it's not even his highest, you know, achievement this season in terms of that. But I guess I revoke my praise, revoke my praise by now then then I thought, oh, maybe it's because he kept getting fouled before he'd completed a dribble. But even that's just sort of two foul. So I don't know. It was an interesting occasion where, you know, perhaps it didn't, you know, the numbers don't tell the full story, you know, in that sense because it's certainly. We heard Bruno Fernandez speak about this. There was a clip that United released when the players were coming in the next day to Carrington and the guy was asking them for their man of the match. And Fernandez made a point of Kunya. A lot of people said Maguire, you know, like me. But Fernandez said a lot of, you know, give a lot of praise to Kunya for that ability to pick up possession and just relieve the pressure by, you know, winning a foul, getting his body in the way, dribbling, you know, getting them up the pitch. Obviously Mbumo set the tone by that aggressive run in behind and we knew that that's what he brings to United and you know, providing the finish as well. I think it was so crucial that it wasn't just a chance that then Liverpool save and they, you know, kind of get away with it a little bit. They're on the back foot but equally they're still nil, nil in the game. I think United going 1 nil so early, it just really gave them that platform to play their game how they wanted to with that a bit more relaxation to it. But yeah, those two guys, you know, United signed them well, signed Kunya early on in the window. And there was some debate around whether that then slowed down the progress within Boomer because Brentford had that price tag as their reference point, you know, 62 and a half million pound release clause. But I think overall, if it can continue like this, I think those kind of prices for those players, given their Premier League experience and their proven ability to make a difference in this division, I think they'll look, look good business in, in hindsight. In fact, actually maybe one more point just to make on Kunya is that, you know, I think he feels like he's born to this kind of atmosphere in this, this, this, yeah, this stage for Man United you feel is a.

Ayo Akimolere (18:36)

Player that likes to rise to the challenge on big occasions.

Laurie Whitwell (18:39)

Definitely. Yeah. He loved, I mean he spoke about that in pre season in Chicago, you know, taking on the pressure, you know, we were kind of asking, oh, it's a big shirt to wear United this, you know, the scrutiny that you get. And he was absolutely up for it. You know, he took the number 10 for Marcus Rashford before Rashford had even left the club at that point. Hopefully United will see this as him really feeling that he's at home here and that this is the kind of spectacle that he's always wanted in his career. And Boomer's a quieter character. So I think it's quite good that you've got these two guys that have done it in the Premier League already. But both come with different qualities, different attributes on the pitch, but also different personalities offer just on that as well.

Mark Critchley (19:14)

I think he's not scored yet. He's not assisted.

Laurie Whitwell (19:16)

Good point.

Mark Critchley (19:17)

Almost like you can't even. But you can't even tell. You can't even tell because it feels like, you know, a lot of players and we live in this age of 007s and 008s and 0014s. Maybe in the future, I don't know. But it's almost like that, that pressure that comes with a new sign in not yet getting off the mark is he sort of evaded it because he, he. He's just taking it on his back. And I'm not saying that it's not bothering him because I'm sure that he would. He would absolutely love to break his duck and score big goals for United and win games, and I'm sure it's coming as well. But when you watch him play, it's like that has not. It's not a burden on the shoulders. He feels that he's willing to accept that burden and carry it. And he's just playing. He's just expressing himself and taking on responsibility. Whereas a lot of players might wilt and flounder under that pressure of not getting off to the absolute perfect start. In terms of output, I think that is still a bit of a question around him, and exactly when that output comes and how much of it there'll be. One of the big things of his performances for Wolves last season, where he was exceptional, was that he was shooting from range a lot of the time. And that was the big thing about him over performing his xg. These are all the questions that were. Were surrounding the signing in the summer. They're still there to an extent, but there's absolutely no question that he's somebody who has the character and the personality to play for United. And I think that's been really evident in these. In his opening games.

Ayo Akimolere (20:32)

All right, we have to talk about Ahmad Diallo, because we've had a question here from one of our YouTube viewers basically stating, is Amadiallo the best right wing back in the league, and is he the best wing bag Manchester United have?

Laurie Whitwell (20:47)

Laurie, I was wondering who you're going to go for there. Yeah, I mean, I think Daniel Munoz would probably have a claim to say that he's the best just because he's done that position for, you know, several seasons now. And he is effective. He's. He scores, he gets assists. I think he got A couple, didn't he against Bournemouth at the weekend. He scored obviously against Everton before that. So he, he would be a contender and I, I, he's somebody that I thought maybe could United have a look at them in themselves. But he's, I think he's 28 and I suppose that they would be looking at a younger profile of player and actually Ahmad has now sort of come into his own a bit because you're sort of wondering, right, you're fine, you can play him as right wing back against the teams that you think you're going to boss possession against because he's going to have the ball in those final third moments and actually his qualities are going to shine through in that kind of way. Is it more difficult to do that against a big team where you're going to have less of the ball? Okay, well actually he went away to Anfield where yeah certainly possession was less than 50, 50 for United and he still had those moments where he was effective. He only got hooked because he got a very harsh booking. He would have stayed on pitch otherwise because he had the beating of Kirkz all day long. And I think that that shows that there is scope for him in this role and it's been something that United have tried, you know, since Reuben Amarin came into the club. He sort of started there, I remember game against Southampton where he started there but actually scored his hat trick later on in the game which was a real pivotal moment again for Amorin when the kind of the questions were, were becoming more fierce and it was when he was more advanced actually in that game that he scored those goals. So you sort of wondering with a boomer coming in, that's clearly his best position, the right hand side cutting in. It's very similar with Ahmad but actually this game showed that they can link up well. And if you've got two players like that coming at you as a left sided center back and a left back, you're in for a real torrid afternoon if they're both on it. So it was real pleasing to see him do well. He's had a family bereavement recently actually Ahmad and he'd sort of come out of the team a little bit and, and Reuben Ammon referenced that after the game and how they've been all looking after him and so hopefully he sort of coming through that and kind of showing his personality on the pitch. He was upset to come off which I think is a good thing. You want players that want to play all the time. So yeah, he's a I mean there's not many right wing backs in the Premier League to be fair, so to kind of have that as a category.

Ayo Akimolere (23:00)

The best of a small bunch basically.

Laurie Whitwell (23:02)

But he's certainly shown that he can. I think he's shown that he can now do this role. It'd be really intriguing to see how it develops as time goes on.

Ayo Akimolere (23:10)

Yeah, thanks a lot for your questions. This one was from Mod. If you want your questions answered on the pod, make sure you head over to the YouTube community as well.

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Mark Critchley (25:29)

I.

Reuben Amarin (25:29)

Want to you guys to continue with the narrative that you are so don't change that. That is better. Best for me. So I will not now increase the. The. The goal or whatever. No, you continue now with the. With the. With the same narrative. What we need to do is try to win three games in a row and then forget about the top four, top six. We already said that we need to go to Europe, but this doesn't change nothing. We are the same team that we were 90 minutes ago. The way people see the team is different, but we are the same team. So we have a lot to do. We had some luck in the few moments. We had an amazing spirit. We need to take all of that to the next game. So the goal is always the same.

Ayo Akimolere (26:15)

Yeah. That was Reuben Amarim referencing the narrative around his team and the task at Handers. Well, okay, let's also not forget last season, Manchester United drew 22 at Anfield. They then played Brighton a few matches later and lost 31 at Old Trafford. It's Brighton next at home again on Saturday. Laurie, you know where I'm going with this. How important is this game? But also how important is consistency? It's a big word for Manchester United.

Laurie Whitwell (26:45)

It's a word that has escaped them certainly in Reuben Amron's tenure probably. I mean, you know, you go back to Eric Tenag's first season was when they actually had consistency, when they had that run to get third place and into the Champions League qualification. I mean, wow, what a kind of island in the oasis that that feels like at the moment. But, yeah, I mean, clearly Brighton have had United's number. Really. They've actually, I think, won three in a row. Old Trafford, Brighton. So it's a big, you know, big task for United to kind of turn it around. Even though, you know, you'd think Brighton would be a team that United could contend with certainly. They also had a couple of good results down on the south coast as well against United. So, yeah, they're a tricky customer. They'll certainly come with a good game plan. Fabian Hertz is a very bright young manager, isn't he? You've got Danny Welbeck still scoring for them. You know, United's former academy player, you know, good finishes as well against Newcastle.

Ayo Akimolere (27:37)

Oh, my goodness. It's a different player, man. So good.

Laurie Whitwell (27:39)

Yeah. And we obviously reported in the summer that United, you know, considered making an approach for him or, you know, I think had talked around, you know, giving him a. An offer and seeing what could come there. So that's a couple of summers in a row where United have had a look at bringing him back. So It'd be fascinating. You know, he. He himself has had a good record at Old Trafford as well. It's just huge, isn't it? Because this is what has been their downfall in, you know, recent seasons, where they've been able to rouse themselves to these big occasions, come together, as Reuben Amarin says there, show that spirit, show that togetherness. Think about the details of games because they did ride the look right. They made mistakes in the game. I mean, Liverpool had chances. Cody Gatpo with the biggest one when it was 2:1, could easily have a different complexion on the whole contest. And then you're sort of back to thinking, you know, are United really robust enough, withstand attacks? You know, it was a. It was a big thing that they ended up winning the game after drawing, you know, with the atmosphere. I mean, I was there and it was. It was ferocious. It was fans properly at it. The players for Liverpool looked like they were swarming all over them. And United did remain resilient and then still had that ability to counter. And obviously the goal comes from Mbumo pressing Mama Dashvili and, you know, United again, winning it in that midfield area. Seska, really clean feet, actually, nice touches to release Kunya, and they win the corner and then that's where the goal comes from. So I think that character, to actually bounce back and get a win again, even though it looked like they were, you know, going to let it slip, is a big thing to bring into this Brighton game. But it'll be a different atmosphere entirely. It'll be a case of, you know, United going in there with hope and maybe a little bit of expectation that they can do this, and then you really starting to get some momentum into the team and looking up the table. Yeah, the question to Amarin that provoked that reaction was basically a you looking at Champions League qualification now. And so I think he certainly is, you know, the fluctuations.

Ayo Akimolere (29:30)

Why do journalists do this? Don't put the man in that space. Come on.

Laurie Whitwell (29:34)

You've always got a throat forward, I suppose, and if he says yes, then you've got. I mean, listen, it provokes a good response. And that's the ultimate old goal of a journalist, I suppose, to kind of sometimes reflect what a manager or head coach wants to hear and sometimes provoke into an answer where he sort of. And Ruben Amory is great for that. You know, I think, think whatever situation he's been in, however tempestuous it's been or how fraught it's felt, he's always been a pretty honorable guy for answering questions, no matter how Hard they are. I was on the pitch at Grimsby, you know, after that encounter, and, you know, he was still, you know, open to answering even the toughest questions about his position.

Ayo Akimolere (30:09)

Yeah. Why do teams like Brighton cause United problems? Because, look, we've seen what they can do at Liverpool. And I'm just imagining being a Manchester United fan right now, and you get to a team like Brighton, which you're hoping the momentum will carry you on to be, and then they're the ones that school you. What is it in this team that it can get up for the big games but not the. Necessarily that the games they technically you think they should be winning?

Mark Critchley (30:33)

Well, I mean, I would maybe have a counter argument to that, is that a lot of teams have caused United problems. Basically every team has caused United problems over the last. Over the last 11 months of Reuben, I mean, being in charge, which isn't meant as an absolute criticism, but I think it's true. If you think back to before Sunday's result, I think that win was. Was Amrim's first against either a team that wasn't a promoted team or wasn't already down to 10 men or that went down to 10 men at some point in the game since I think since the Fulham game in January. So it's not. It's not that there's one particular type of team that. That United do well against or not. The problems have been consistent. We're talking about consistency. The only consistent thing really has been that you don't really know what. What United team's going to turn up on any given day. And I think that is a bigger factor here. We were discussing the Brighton game yesterday, me and Laurie actually, and it felt like 3:1 back in January, felt like a real watershed moment. You might remember it was after that game where Amarim spoke about this being. Or he used the phrase, this is the worst team in United's history. Now, I think there was maybe a bit more concept to that situation that was not lost in translation, but sort of lost in just the noise that that created. And to be fair to him, he said, there's your headline. Write it. And so everyone went away and wrote that headline. And that's all anyone remembers. He was talking about. He understands the stats that come out that say this is the worst start since 1870, whatever, you know what I mean? That was that game. It was also the game where he smashed up the television in the dressing room afterwards. As Laurie. As Laurie reported on the Athletic.

Laurie Whitwell (32:04)

It was a game and allegedly inadvertently, rather than like a kind Of Rock Star on throwing this out the hotel window. The TV was very feisty.

Ayo Akimolere (32:12)

You covered yourself.

Mark Critchley (32:16)

The TV needed replacement afterwards. That's all we say. It was also the game, if you look back, that Kobbie Mainu basically stopped starting in midfield after that. He was playing Ugati and midfield alongside each other pretty consistently. But after that day things changed and we've barely seen Main who start in midfield since, only in a couple of games around the rotation in the Europa League run. But he, he, he's not really been trusted there since. So I do think it's a game that was a bit of a watershed moment and I went back last night and I watched the highlights of it. I would say there was, there was no one discernible, let's say this minutes. Larry, it's all right.

Laurie Whitwell (32:49)

Look at you.

Ayo Akimolere (32:50)

Are you surprised that Crit is doing the research? What's wrong with you?

Mark Critchley (32:53)

You want to look?

Laurie Whitwell (32:57)

Let me just look at these highlights now.

Mark Critchley (32:58)

Actually guys, you pull them up and I'll talk you through them. Right? I can commentate. Exactly.

Ayo Akimolere (33:03)

The proper journalist. Go on, keep going. But no, I don't think there was.

Mark Critchley (33:06)

Any like discernible pattern in, in. In the way that United concede those goals. I remember the first one, it's like a long ball over the top from somebody called Carlos Baleba who may on May not future podcast at some point that gets in behind United. There was a great. The second one's a great bit of skill from Xiao Pedro. The third one is an anonymous state where he just parries it into router for the third. It's not a game where things systemically break down. I don't think, or at least judging by that three minute highlight package and my memory of being there. It's the type of game that we've seen United lose a lot over the last few. Over the last year, especially under Ameren. Right. And so that is something that needs to improve. I don't think there's anything particular about Brighton or these level of teams. It's just about United finding consistency and confidence and rhythm within their own sales and their own system. And that you would hope would be the big plus point from Sunday's win is that it's such a psychological boost winning at Anfield. The significance of that, talking about first time in nine years, et cetera. That's what needs to change from Sunday, I think rather than is this the template for moving forward or whatever.

Laurie Whitwell (34:11)

I do think we're brightened that they're such a well organized team. And they've been so consistent themselves, back to that word throughout, you know, Tony Bloom's tenure really, certainly in the Premier League. And even with rotating head coaches, they've still maintained really a style of play that all the players, no matter how much they switch in and out, they know what they're supposed to be doing in these systems. And then when you come to United, I mean, certainly under Reuben Amorin, even sort of going back, it was Erik Ten Hag's first game. Oh, Trafford.

Mark Critchley (34:39)

Right.

Laurie Whitwell (34:39)

I think when they one, two, one that day. So it's a new sort of way of playing that they're trying there. You've got a new way of playing with Ruben Amarin. So I think Brighton are just the kind of team that will take advantage of those opponents that are having players that aren't quite sure about where they're supposed to be or there's that second pause of which pass am I supposed to play here? So I think that maybe that's one reason as to why they've had such success against United in comparison to other teams. But yeah, I take critic's point. He's watched three minute highlights, so he knows far more about this game than I do.

Ayo Akimolere (35:12)

All right, let's move on to this one. And I, I guess it's quite a simplistic question, but I, I think there's some credence to it in that obviously there's no European football this season, but also Manchester United are out of the League cup. So there's a lot more time for this team to, to spend together, Chris, to actually work on stuff on the training pitch. Laurie's has talked about a team like Brighton being very well organized. Is this the opportunity for Manchester United and Amrim to really instill his principles and make this team consistent and more well organized?

Mark Critchley (35:43)

That was the silver lining to the cloud of no European football last season. To the extent that I remember, even on the Europa League media day preview in the final, about a week or so before when we were at Old Trafford, we had a press conference essentially with Ruben Amarim and he was asked, does any part of you think that, you know, worst case scenario, you lose next Wednesday night? Then you do have this. You have these three midweeks next season and that allows you this time to get more organizing and get more discipline within the system. And we know that he's honest to a fault and he couldn't even bring himself to say that it wouldn't be a good thing if they lost the game. Essentially, you know, obviously a caveat had answer and he obviously didn't want to lose the game, but he knew, knew that playing European football this season would be almost too much of a weight for some of these players to really carry. And for his own project, in terms of actually getting them used to the style of play and the system that he wants them to be drilled in, you could take that statement and fairly question whether United managers can really be turning down the opportunity to play in Europe. So blithely is that the club should be in Europe, it should be competing and as many fronts as possible. It should be successful on as many fronts as possible. Because this is Manchester United. I can't believe I used that phrase, but it's true, right? And people expect that. But there was always that. There's always been that inherent tension. And I think the funny thing about this season now is that they might be playing league cup games, but they lost to Grimsby Town as well. So he's got even more time on the training pitch to make those improvements. I think it has raised the stakes a little bit. And look, a few weeks ago when results weren't going so well, well, one of the questions that people were asking was what are they doing on the training pitch? What use is this time for if we're still not seeing the fruits of that labor out in results on the weekend? So it does in a way, Amrim talking about it taking the pressure off. I think it does add it on in a sense as well, at the same time because people still expect results no matter what happens. But it will help you look at the history of teams dropping out of Europe. I think generally speaking, I'm thinking of, you know, I remember Liverpool's title charge in 2014. They weren't in Europe that year. I think the Chelsea were they outside of Europe the season after or they've certainly were. When Conte won. When Conte won the title after the Mourinho season, they had no European football that year. It can be a benefit. You think about the number of Premier League sides that are in Europe this year, it's nine. You know, almost half the league will be playing twice a week. And United aren't one of those teams. Now, that is. That's an indictment on one level. But at the same time, it could be a benefit this year. So I think it's an advantage that he has. It doesn't completely take the pressure. Pressure off though, because people will still expect to see, as I say, the fruits of that labor out on the pitch and in the results.

Ayo Akimolere (38:27)

Yeah, really quickly Laurie, were other chats around this potential friendly in Saudi Arabia then on the horizon? Have we had any reactions to that by fans? Any reaction from the club? I mean, what's going on here?

Laurie Whitwell (38:39)

Yeah, I mean, Reuben Amarin actually addressed this. It was. I've sort of written it in terms of United looking at it, so there's nothing set in stone at all, but he actually came out and said, yes, we will do it. The question was about. Yeah, the question was about midweek friendly. So it wasn't specifically about Saudi Arabia, just to clarify. But, yeah, he actually, again, to his speak, to his honesty and his candor, he said, yeah, we will do it. We know the situation, the realities of the club. We're not in Europe, so we need the finance, really. And a lot of decisions that United take now will have that lens to it. Yeah. And I sort of even said back to him, well, I thought the, you know, positive of not being in Europe was to have this time on the training pitches. And he just said, listen, we have to be realistic here. You know, if it means. He didn't go into this, but this is what I time. So taking from it that, you know, if it means they can get, I don't know, 5, 10 million pounds from whatever they do in these sort of. If they do ultimately compete, these friendlies, then that's, you know, worth the, I don't know, 24 hours of, you know, travel game back in Manchester, whatever it might be. So, yeah, let's see what ultimately gets decided on that. But it's a fascinating sort of point. I mean, the. The fans, I'm sure, were kind of rolling their eyes. That's it, really. You know, we'll see what happens when it actually, actually is, you know, announced, if it does get confirmed, like I say, I mean, they have done a match in Saudi Arabia before. I'd sort of forgotten this until my more established and experienced and knowledgeable colleague Andrew Mitten on the top of the Devil's podcast, referenced the 2008 Nine Friendly. There it was. It was a testimonial. And this was at the time when they were European champions, so in the midst of a sort of winning run. So certainly it's nothing totally new, but I suppose it's a little bit of a different. Different complexion when they're out of Europe entirely and they're kind of doing it to raise funds, really.

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Mark Critchley (41:38)

Right.

Laurie Whitwell (41:41)

Reuben, he needs to demonstrate that he's a great coach over three years. So you give him three years. Yeah, that's where I. That's where I would be. Yeah. Three years. Because it's not. It's not. Football's not overnight. No. And as you say, that Alex Ferguson example is exactly, isn't it? And you look at Arteta, Arsenal, you know, he had a miserable time for the first couple of years.

Ayo Akimolere (42:06)

Know. Yeah. Manchester United's co owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe, speaking on the Times business podcast. He's pledged to give Amarim three years in charge. How much goodwill does the Liverpool game buy? Amarim Critch? I mean, that's a massive win against one of your old foes.

Mark Critchley (42:23)

Yeah, no, absolutely. I thought, look, I thought it was interesting afterwards when AM comes out and he says, look, it's a great win, it's my biggest win, but it doesn't mean that much tomorrow. And it was the same vibe from, from Harry Maguire, talking about how he knows that if there's a bad result against Brighton, then things turn again. And even Senor Lamon saying that they need to shut out external noise. I mean, he's been here five minutes and he already understands that at United there's this constant up and down roller coaster. One good result can mean everything's fine and one bad result turns things the opposite way. I do think that, look, the significance of that win and it being at Anfield and it being against Liverpool does has to count for something. And reckless words the other week have to count for something. It's always been our understanding that they would like to give him the full season. They would like to give him an opportunity to prove himself. And essentially establish that he is the right manager for Manchester United. And I think results like Sunday only help that. There is always an element of unpredictability around this stuff. You're always conscious that things can spiral very quickly. If you don't get results but three games until the next international break, you'd say that as long as they're picking up wins and a few points here and there, then that pressure won't be as intense as it's felt at the start of this season. I don't think Ratcliffe is somebody, somebody who is. I think he's somebody who's in a bit of a hurry. Let's say that, okay, we're talking often with about United in terms of Premier League titles that are by 2028 and 100,000 seat of stadia by 2030. And there's these big grand ambitions and so that sort of thing, it doesn't speak to a long term project. Right. And it speaks to getting results quite quickly. But at the same time for him to come out and say he wants to judge Amarim over three years, he's got a two and a half year contract. We're already a year into that. If you do the maths, that's basically the end of next season. Results will always dictate just exactly how long any manager gets. But I feel like take everything as it stands. And you'd have to say that at the moment he's got time on his hands. As much time as any manager at Manchester United can have if there's also never going that well.

Ayo Akimolere (44:26)

Yeah, so true. And I guess the irony of Sergio Ratcliffe being in a rush, Laurie, is that that he quoted Sir Alex Ferguson's time at Manchester United and also Arteta's time at Arsenal. In fairness, I hear that. But if you're in a rush, you can't afford to give someone five years, can you? Realistically to. To try and get something off the ground or in Sir Alex Ferguson's time, Manchester United were the dominant force back then. This is a whole different landscape we're playing with here.

Laurie Whitwell (44:53)

Yeah, it very much is. I mean where Felix took over the club as well. They were really in desperate straits. I know that Amorin, you know, came in when United were a lower, but they weren't 15, you know, that's obviously where they finished under him in his first season. So that, that's a fair context to add in an Arteta, I think, didn't he win his. The FA cup in his first or second season? So you've got if there's some signs that, you know, so say Amrin had won the Europa League, you know, you kind of think, well, okay, there you go. I know that he's been desperate in the Premier League, but he's won something and that's something to grab hold of. Losing that final does alter perceptions, but I think a win like that at Anfield, it needs to be added to, certainly. But I think they've always wanted, certainly with cuz executive Omar Berard, who pushed for Amarin's appointment. You've got Jason Wilcox, director of football, who's got a good relationship with Amaran. Certainly they want this to work. So I don't, I don't think they're in any kind of rush, you know, like a Marinakis with Andrew Postecoglou, you know, he was always going to react quickly to that situation going south. And whereas I know that they, well, they were looking at getting rid of Eric Ten hag when they first came in. They kept him on it. Never felt like it was going to really last that at all. And at this first sign of trouble, really, you know, then the pull, the cord was pulled on that. So I think now they've got a guy that they've actually appointed. I do think they want to give him ample chance to make it work. And they've certainly shown faith already. You know, I don't think he could have argued if they had decided to, you know, go a different way. Even spoke about that himself. Even, I think, offered to, you know, walk away if they felt that it wasn't going to work. But they showed him support, they convinced him to stay. And so I think that means that there's that buy in from all sides to try and make this work. But it does need results. But then you look at the table now and obviously, you know, from where they were, you know, the ninth in the table. So that's not great. But it's, you know, 13 points and Man City are on 16 points in second place. The point being that as long as I'm in touch with the European places, I don't think there's any chance of United looking to terminate this. I think as Crit says there, the ultimate aim is to give him the season. Let's see how they are at the end of that. And as Sir Jim Ratcliffe said, ideally even longer than that, which might require then a contract extension, given it is, as Critch's outline there, his terms till 2027.

Mark Critchley (47:01)

Love him.

Ayo Akimolere (47:02)

All right, let's leave it there. Mark Laurie, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

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You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on your YouTube the Athletic FC Podcast so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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