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- [00:02]
Podcast Host
Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you use for all your swiping, scrolling and athletic FC streaming. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and just for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
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- [01:06]
Jake Stauch
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- [02:10]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Xabi Alonso has been announced as Chelsea's next manager as their campaign pet us out. Is he the man to reignite them next season? All right, in with us for this one on the Athletic. We've got James Horncastle. We've also got our Chelsea correspondent, Liam Toomey as well. So, on Saturday, the Athletic's David Ornstein exclusively revealed that Xabi Alonso had agreed to become Chelsea's next permanent manager. I mean, considering the cup exit. Liam, considering the chat we've had about this over the last couple of weeks, surely a little bit of good news for Chelsea fans finally.
- [02:56]
Liam Toomey
Yeah. And delivered a couple of hours after FA cup final defeat. So quite the. Quite the consolation prize. I think Chelsea have reason to hope that it will be an awful lot more than that in the. In the next couple of years. This is a real coup. There's no understating that. I think, you know, Xabi Alonso is a year removed from getting the Real Madrid job on merit as perhaps the most coveted young coach in European football. And now Chelsea have managed to land him from what you would have to say on the pitch is a position of weakness. They are at a low ebb this season and so the fact that they've managed to convince him to come in and, you know, the framework of the arrangement that he will have with the club, which we've had some information on, but we can only really see with time, will be critical to determining how successful this is.
- [03:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, it's so interesting when we talk about Xabi Alonso because obviously his last tenure was at Real Madrid, James. And many have said perhaps it lowered his stock in many respects. But when you now look at what's happening at Real Madrid, it's fair to say that potentially what happened there wasn't fully his fault, was it?
- [04:06]
James Horncastle
Yeah, it's been a kind of anus horribilis, really for Real Madrid, you know, second year in a row without winning any silverware. Yeah. Barca securing the title in El Classico. And look, I think it was, it was difficult for Xabi Alonso on a number of levels. You know, the guy got no real time off from leaving Leverkusen straight into the Club World Cup. That was a competition that, you know, mattered to Florentino Perez because I think Perez sort of saw it as, okay, we didn't get the Super League, but this is a competition that's truly global, brings the quote, unquote, best clubs together, didn't win that. He didn't ask to kind of change the culture at Real Madrid from, you know, a club that had a dressing room with, with high profile players who, you know, do take tactical instruction, but are kind of engaged on, you know. Do you think this is right? Do you think this is wrong? I think Xavier Alonso is of a new wave of managers, has a very clear identity in how he wants to play and, and maybe was perhaps seen a little bit rigid within that framework. But yeah, certainly you know how Madrid's season, particularly in the last month, has spiraled with, I mean, kind of conflicts at the training ground, bus stops, Federico Valverde being taken to hospital for a scan, for a scan after a fallout with Tchouameni. You can see how difficult a club that is, is to manage. You hope that Xabiolonso will have learned from that experience because it will have been very challenging. Testing it might have made him reconsider how he approaches certainly going into a dressing room with big personalities or bigger personalities than the ones he had at Bayer Leverkusen. But, you know, a year ago we were saying this was a great coup for Real Madrid, that arguably no one in world football could be better prepared, that, you know, he had been patient at Leverkusen, you know, sort of staying on for another year after winning the league undefeated. And we all talk about how midfielders are great as coaches because they see both phases of the game. We all looked at his coaching tree, who he'd worked on, the, you know, sort of Tristan Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti, you know, all of the, the great coaches last year, and it proved that actually in the end, maybe that wasn't the best preparation. It didn't make him a slam dunk. So let's see, I'm very curious with, with this choice to go to Chelsea. And when we last spoke about this very particular football club, which Liam knows better than me, it was after Liam Rossini got fired and Chelsea were going to take a period of learning from that.
- [06:53]
Liam Toomey
Self reflection, James.
- [06:54]
James Horncastle
Self reflection. That's the one.
- [06:56]
Ayo Akimolere
That's the one.
- [06:57]
James Horncastle
You know, they say that this is a move grounded in alignment, collaboration, standards and long term success. All things you don't associate with Chelsea Football Club.
- [07:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, do you know what, it's funny. I was reading a piece by Stu James on this exact situation and he says it feels as though Alonso is taking a sizable leap of faith here out of the frying pan at Real Madrid and into the fire at Chelsea. Liam. I mean, look, much has been said about what goes on or has been going on in, in the background at Chelsea, but in the light of new revelations, in the light of a new start, in the light of a fresher start, making him a manager instead of head coach surely is a statement of intent that hopefully they've learned from times gone by.
- [07:45]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, the phrasing of these things matters. And the word coming out of Chelsea is that they were the ones who decided to give or offer Xabi Alonso this title rather than head coach in recognition of his status in the game and the authority that he. He projects the kind of aura around him, which I believe also came through when they spoke to him about. About this job. We have to see what that looks like in practice, what the relationship is with Chelsea's ownership and sporting leadership. I know Chelsea don't believe that theirs is a particularly difficult structure to work within, but the track record of the last four years suggests otherwise. And, you know, I think within that context, it is only natural that Alonso would have had questions, quite a lot of questions, about Chelsea as an organization, about what he might have been walking into, as well as the squad and the football challenges that he will be faced with. He has clearly been reassured enough to take this step, and I think Chelsea do deserve credit for convincing him because this is the first hire they've made. I think you can say arguably since Mauricio Pochettino, but maybe even more so than him that could have had other better options, if not now, then later. And Alonso has already demonstrated in his short career that. That he is prepared to turn down very attractive jobs from very big clubs if he doesn't feel comfortable with the decision that he's making. So I think they deserve real credit for actually getting this over the line. The next challenge now you've got this guy in the door is to let him work in the way that he wants to work and empower him to do the things that you think he can do for you.
- [09:38]
Jake Stauch
Yeah.
- [09:38]
Ayo Akimolere
Do you know what, it's fascinating, James. We often talk about how it's the manager that needs to make it work. Obviously, it's a cl. Chelsea are a massive club, but also the pressure's actually on the club here to make this work, to, given the right conditions, to actually let him cook.
- [09:54]
James Horncastle
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I was. I was with someone in football the other day and they were talking about, you know, what makes successful club, and they were like, kind of, you know, strong executive team means kind of strong dressing room means strong team. You know, weak executive team means weak dressing room, weak team. It does start from the top, really. And I. I think that dysfunction at Chelsea, you know, sort of between, you know, ownership figures who. Who don't get on, you know, these things do in some ways trickle down. And. And so I think that's why everybody should be watching to see if there is alignment between executive Team football operation. And, you know, what is going on at Cobham and at Stamford Bridge, you know, sort of every day. Because, you know, I think the best clubs have genuine unity from. From top to bottom. They're on. On the same page. And, you know, I was reading the Economist the other day, as you do, it's their sort of issue about, you know, sort of, is Britain ungovernable? And, you know, sort of in their editorial is like, you know, sort of, you know, Britain has got used to having more Prime Ministers than Chelsea Football Club has managers. That's the reputation that Chelsea have to shake. And look, the current ownership group can say, well, it's very similar in terms of churn under. Under Roman Abramovic. But it always felt that that churn under Abramovic was down to standards in terms of, you know, is the team competitive? You know, second was never enough. Finishing runners up in a cup competition was never enough for Abramovich. Whereas it feels that the churn on the kind of Clear Lake Todd Boehly has has also been about dysfunction within the club and that kind of embryonic structure being unstable. Now that structure's no longer embryonic, but remains to be seen if Xavier Alonso has the stability he needs in order to implement the football that we saw at Bayer Leverkusen in the Premier League.
- [12:16]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, we'll talk about him stylistically in just a second, Liam. But I'm just wondering what kind of impact you think this might have on this relatively young squad. Someone of his stature obviously won trophies both as a player and as a manager coming into that dressing room. Considering all the other appointments we've probably seen Bluco bring in since they've taken
- [12:39]
Liam Toomey
over, I think it's fair to say this was a dressing room in need of reassurance. Certainly several key players about the state of this project and the direction of it. And it was very clear that the appointment of Liam Rosinha did not reassure anyone that Chelsea were going in the right direction, that they had the know how to build an elite environment. And so it was always clear that their next appointment had to address those concerns. And it doesn't get more elite than Xavi Alonso. He's one of the most successful people in football this century. As James said, he's worked under all of the best coaching minds that there are. And he's also had, I don't think it's an overstatement to say extraordinary success as a coach. What he did at Leverkusen was genuinely extraordinary in the manner in which he did it. So There is every reason, if you're a Chelsea player, even an important player who has maybe been questioning their future, there is every reason for you to think, okay, we've got a serious guy walking in through the door now, and he will command your respect from day one. Whether he then keeps your respect is a challenge that every coach faces over time. But I think from day one, there will be no authority problem for Xabi Alonso, whether he's called manager, head coach or anything else, just by virtue of who he is and what he's done. I think this dressing room, which is not the Real Madrid dressing room, let's be clear, will respect him.
- [14:11]
Jake Stauch
Yeah.
- [14:12]
Ayo Akimolere
Does his aura demand respect, James, especially for this young squad?
- [14:16]
James Horncastle
It does, but it's not enough because, yeah, I mean, Zinedine Zidane had aura Madrid, you know, I mean, the telling of Zinedine Sudan's success, that football club has been often reduced to. Oh, he just had aura, didn't he? Rather than, you know, as Carlo Ancelotti kind of rightly pushed back to Adam Crafton in the interview that was published on the Athletic last week. The idea that, you know, Ancelotti and Zidane are just vibes, coaches is, is very far from the, from, from the
- [14:54]
Jake Stauch
truth, because it seems that the players at Real Madrid do what they want.
- [14:59]
James Horncastle
It's not true.
- [15:00]
Jake Stauch
Absolutely bullshit. The idea that the Real Madrid doesn't want to follow a strategy, it is not true.
- [15:07]
James Horncastle
And so aura in itself will only get you so far. I think a lot of people, obviously, over the last two years have been projecting Xabi Alonso to go to Liverpool, where, you know, you might feel that that aura would be activated to an even greater degree because of his past with that football club. So, you know, it's, it's interesting to see him go, to, go to Chelsea. And also you do have to remember how much some of these very young players who've come from all over the world will have seen of Xabio Alonso when he was a player. I mean, not to make us all feel old, but some of them are so young, they might have only come in at the very end of Xabi Alonso being a player. Certainly they might have followed his time at Real Madrid, but maybe not his time at Liverpool. But, you know, this, this is a guy who is able to show on the training ground what he wants them to do. You know, he'll have as much skill as any of the players on, on the training ground at Cobham. He obviously speaks very good English, will be able to articulate those ideas. He's, he's always been extremely adaptable, whether it's been, you know, sort of going to Spain, going to Merseyside, going to, going to Germany, which again, I think is another reason to, to, to, to believe in him. But it, it comes down to, you know, how much stability he has at that football club, how much buy in he has from the players and you know, what to expect from the core group of those Chelsea players. How much of that core group will still be at the football club at the end of the transfer window? How many players still want to be there? How many players do the owners want to be there? You know what happens if Xabi Alonso wants to keep some players, but the owners are like, well, yeah, maybe for our player trading operation we need to sell one of these players. So, you know, there are so many dynamics which make and break a managerial appointment. We'll, we'll have to see whether those dynamics all align, you know, as we're just such a the Buzzword of the last five years. I get it.
- [17:24]
Podcast Host
This host city guide on the Athletic is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X card.
- [17:29]
Houston City Guide Narrator
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- [18:22]
Podcast Host
This host city guide on the Athletic is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X Card. Venture X offers premium benefits like a $300 annual Capital One travel credit for less than you expect. Terms apply. Seecapitalone.com for details. Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network, the same wireless network you use for all your swiping, scrolling and Athletic FC streaming. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and just for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more go to firstnet.com or visit in 18 store for details.
- [19:15]
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- [20:02]
James Horncastle
Foreign.
- [20:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Let's move on let's talk about the kind of football we've seen Xabi Alonso play with the teams that he's managed because you know, he made his name in management winning the Bundesliga with Bileverkusen playing predominantly a 3, 4, 2, 1 formation. Incidentally, this is how Chelsea set up against Manchester City on Saturday. Now, despite Chelsea losing, Liam, the performance actually wasn't that bad. I mean, they didn't create many chances, but they seem to be a bit more gusto about Chelsea.
- [20:36]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, I mean, motivation is the least you'd expect for a Cup final. And you know, if they were ever going to raise themselves in this damp squib of an end to the season, you would imagine it would be at Wembley again with a trophy on the line. The system, I think, allowed them to stay in the game and make it close. I never really got the sense that they tremendously worried Manchester City and James Trafford didn't have a save to make. So ultimately, yeah, I mean, Chelsea fans were hot at the end of the game about some penalties that they felt they didn't get, but they didn't create enough to actually have, I think, a legitimate case to win the final. And I think it was in some ways an indictment of where Chelsea are that a dominant emotion among some of the Chelsea fans that I spoke to was relief that they hadn't been embarrassed. And Chelsea don't go into finals not to get embarrassed. That has not been the modern history of this football club and I think that's one of the things that Xabi Alonso will be hoping to change and change very quickly. So the formation thing was an interesting quirk. It didn't really give off Alonso at Leverkusen vibes, but equally Alonso is not necessarily going to play the same system at Chelsea that he did at Leverkusen. I think he played different systems at Real Madrid. He played a back four at times. He played wingers, which he didn't do. Leverkusen, it will be informed quite heavily, I think, by the players that he has, the players that he gets, the players that Chelsea sell, what he feels he has to work with going into next season. And what I think was so impressive about what he did at Leverkusen, more than the system, was that he really smartly identified the strengths and weaknesses of his squad, picked the system that maximised their strengths, minimised their weaknesses. I saw this at Chelsea with Antonio Conte in the mid 2010s. I think he did that phenomenally well. And Thomas Tuchel as well when he came in, also with a back three. But there are different ways to do it and I think he will clearly already have his own thoughts about Chelsea's squad and they will evolve over the summer as he hopefully works in harmony with the Chelsea hierarchy to build things towards the new season.
- [22:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean, look, it's always really fascinating trying to hark back to the ways managers have played with different teams, James. But, you know, the reality is this is also a different league and this is also a different team with different personnel. So fair to say we kind of get an idea of what he might do, but with a personnel at hand, and. And I'm sure there will be various different cycles of recruitment still to come who might not necessarily play the same way he did at Leverkusen, at Chelsea.
- [23:18]
James Horncastle
Yeah, I think every team is different, every club is different, you know, kind of their identity, you know, I mean, certainly, I think at Real Madrid, you know, one of the things that that football club has failed to address over the last couple of years is the, you know, retirement of Tony Kroos. You know, how important it has. It is to have a player in that role because, you know, they can help you control games and sort of implement, you know, sort of sophisticated tactical systems. You know, I'm curious to see at Chelsea what he would do with the midfield, whether the midfield as it is presently constituted, remains in place. Does, for example, Enzo Fernandez leave during. During this summer transfer window, and if he does, you know, what did they do about replacing him? You know, I think there was a feeling with one of his many predecessors this year, having gone through McFarlane Mareska, is some of Mareska's points going to the start of the season, you know, in terms of. About experience, you know, Do Chelsea need to think about adding more experience? Do Chelsea need to think about adding particularly experienced in certain roles, like at center back, for example? And if there is genuine kind of alignment, you know, we should see that manifest itself over this summer transfer window. Liam will know better than me, you know, what consequences there will be for Chelsea of not qualifying for Europe, how he might be expected to sort of work with what he's got or have to, you know, sort of really kind of self finance the augmentation of this team through, through the, through the transfer window. These are all things that make clubs different and make the challenge different. So we'll have to see how he faces up to it.
- [25:10]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean, talking of experience, Liam, you saw how important a player like Granit Xhaka was for Xabi Alonso at Leverkusen. This window for Chelsea, surely experience has to be on the cards.
- [25:23]
Liam Toomey
Well, I think there is an awareness of that at Chelsea. Perhaps you could say belatedly, after four years, the messaging that they were going to look for more ready made players this summer predates the Alonso appointment. I think it's something that they've been thinking about during this period of self reflection about where the deficiencies in this squad are. And clearly no Champions League football makes that more difficult. It might mean that you can't push the boat out quite as far for certain players. It might mean that certain players cross you off their list because you're just not at the level that they're looking for at that point in time. But players will want to still come to Chelsea. I think Alonso will help with that. He will be a draw. They will need to sell, but they were going to need to sell anyway. That is the Bluco business model. The player trading is baked in and the idea is that you sell the players around the edges of your core and not your core. Everything that we're hearing is that they won't sell their untouchables, as it were. Now, is Enzo Fernandez an untouchable? That's an open question. I think over the, after the last few months and some of the things that he said publicly. So that is definitely a situation to watch and clearly if he does leave, that will be a radical change for the midfield. But they do have some other very good midfielders. I think Moises Caicedo will continue to be a pillar of this team, for example, and I think Cole Palmer is another one that they're looking to build around and hope that he can return to the form that he showed under Mauricio Pochettino. So they, they have some real raw materials to work with for Alonso to work with. It's clear they need more. They've been looking defender for about a year. They were in for Jeremy Jaquet, who ultimately went to Liverpool. But I think there will be a more experienced profile across a number of positions this, this summer that they are looking to target.
- [27:18]
Ayo Akimolere
There is a chance that Chelsea do qualify for some European competition, James. And there's two things I want to ask here. One, if they don't qualify for the Champions League this season into the next, does Chelsea still have that gravitas moving into next season to bring in top, top talent? Secondly, surely if they don't have European football, this can be quite great for Xabi Alondo to implement his ideas, a bit like Carrick we've seen at Manchester United and maybe try and understand how he works with his team.
- [27:47]
James Horncastle
So I think there are a couple of answers to those questions. I mean, first and foremost, I think Chelsea, by dint of being a Premier League team in London now coached by Xabi Alonso, will be attractive. You know, players want to live in London, they want to earn Premier League money and they want to be coached by people like Xabi Alonso. Second answer, I think if Chelsea are not in Europe, it's a problem. And I think it's a problem for two reasons. One, it's very obvious financial. This is a club that sort of has to be in the Champions League. It needs that revenue uplift. You know, one of our colleagues, Chris Weatherspoon, wrote a really good breakdown of Chelsea's finances and Blue coast finances a couple of weeks ago on the athletics. So I'd recommend everyone go and read that. The other thing is player aggregation that we've seen under this ownership group. You know how big these squads are. And, you know, I think that played to their favor last season with Enzo Maresca, where, you know, they were playing Conference League, club World Cup. It felt like Chelsea were ahead of the game in putting big squads together to, to cope with unprecedented fixture congestion that elite clubs face. Now, if you're not in a European competition, that's a lot of egos and players you have to manage and say, yeah, I'm really sorry, we've only got so many games this season. We're only playing 40 instead of 60. Your pathway, it's not there. Your minutes are not there. Managing personalities in that environment is difficult. Keeping everybody happy in that environment is difficult. And so, yeah, I think that will be a challenge. And I do think sort of Blueco's way of signing players that we've seen over the last few years where they give them these super long contracts and, you know, they sort of claim that they're either incentivized or, you know, they're not paying big money because they've got to young players early. You know, whenever those young players do well or they've been at the club and, you know, in Enzo Fernandez's case has scored, you know, in double figures this year, they're like, well, my contract lads, maybe, maybe I'm due a bit of a pay bump or, you know, sort of this sort of thing. You got to manage all of that as a, as a coach and, you know, as much as we focus on, you know, sort of his tactical fit, whether his ideas will work in the Premier League, you know, sort of which pieces go together, which don't. It's a lot of, it's often the stuff that you don't see in the dressing room at the training ground in terms of managing people, that is as big a part of the challenge as anything else.
- [31:09]
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- [32:16]
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- [32:36]
James Horncastle
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- [32:51]
Podcast Host
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast
- [32:53]
James Horncastle
with Ayoak Molero Xabi Alonso and mission impossible is accomplished.
- [33:01]
James Pearce
Liverpool were 30 down five minutes ago
- [33:06]
Robert Mase
and now look at that scoreline.
- [33:08]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, we have to talk about what this means for Liverpool because there's pressure building on Arnas slot, even more so after Friday night's loss to Aston Villa. So let's hear from the Athletics.
- [33:21]
James Pearce
James Pearce was Xabi Alonso taking over at Chelsea is a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of Liverpool fans I think firstly because of course he's adored at Anfield going back to his playing days under Rafa Benitez and being part of that iconic team that won the Champions League in Istanbul in 2005. As a fan you never want to see someone like that you respect so much go and manage one of your arch rivals in the Premier League. But more importantly I think because of course Alonso going to Chelsea at a time when so many Liverpool fans are clamoring for change at Anfield and certainly amongst the match going fans that I know a lot of them would have loved to have seen Xabi Alonso succeed on a slot this summer. But you know, the reality is that, you know, from Liverpool's perspective, you know, Alonso, I think, I think they feel that there was a misconception kind of that two years ago after Jurgen Klopp announced that he was leaving, that there was a sense then of well, Alonso is the override in first choice. And then I think it also gathered pace this narrative that he'd somehow he turned down the job because he was going to stay at Leverkusen for another year when certainly the people involved in that appointment process of slot both at the time and in the two years since have always been adamant that Alonso was not the first choice. He was never offered the job. And then of course when it came to all the data checks, all the metrics that Liverpool used, that it was on a slot that came out on top. So they were happy with their choice then and at the minute the club stances that they're still sticking by on the slot now that position and that kind of show of faith is being tested to the absolute limit by the state of what Liverpool are serving up on the pitch at the moment. Certainly not just in terms of results but performances.
- [35:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean like we don't know whether or not Liverpool have made any contact with Xabi Alonso but I and neither were Chelsea fans really considering they've got their manager Liam. But do you think Liverpool might have missed the trick here considering the mounting pressure on Arnoslot?
- [35:21]
Liam Toomey
Well, in some ways I admire their courage for their convictions. You know, this is a coach that won the Premier League in his first season which I think earned some faith and some goodwill. They then overhauled the squad without maybe doing the thing that they needed to do which is make the tough decision on Mohamed Salah which has been a running theme throughout this season I think and muddled the look of Liverpool on the pitch. So there are lots of reasons I think that maybe not down to honor slot James will know better than me for why Liverpool might be struggling. They've been very unlucky with injuries to Isaac and Ekatike as well. But I've seen this at Chelsea many times with coaches where you can think he's the right coach or you can have doubts but regardless of your confidence level results and performances take on a momentum of their own. And if they color fan sentiment to the point where it becomes really toxic past a certain threshold it doesn't matter whether you think he's the right coach or not. It just gets to a stage where they're no longer tenable to keep hold of. Now I don't know whether Arneslot has reached that point. It may be that they kind of tough this out as a club get through it, rebuild in the summer in a more logical way put him in a better position to succeed next year and we see something closer to the Arna slot that was there in his first season. But they are certainly being tested right now in their resolve with him because when Anfield is with you it's an amazing place. When it's against you I think it's a really difficult place.
- [37:01]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Something has tested once more not for the first time this season is the resolve with Mo Salah James a big statement on his social media calling for Liverpool to go back to being the heavy metal attacking team that opponents fear saw that. What did you make of it?
- [37:21]
James Horncastle
Don't let the door hit you on your way out. I mean I imagine he thinks he's saying that in the interest of Liverpool Football Club a club that he's a legend of one of. If not, you know the greatest player ever to play for the club was Kenny Dalish. You know I, I, I do think it's interesting going back a year. You know Salah put in a season which should have put him in contention for the Ballon d'. Or. It's, it's been a surprise when Salah's put in years like that and he hasn't won the Ballon d'. Or. I also think maybe last year and I'm not saying I said this sort of in August time, I'm not saying this with the benefit of hindsight. I think maybe the time would have been good for, for Liverpool to move on from sell out there and then that perhaps that they could have got some money for him. I know that they, yeah they did sign him under, under a new contract which seems very expensive. And again there's just a lot of things that were illogical to me about Liverpool last summer. You know, sort of re upping a veteran player on big wages. You know it, it didn't look to me as good as the season that he had something that you know, in this story that we've been told about FSG and Liverpool and kind of Moneyball and all those sort of things that you should be giving a contract of that size to a player of that age. Even though you could maybe look at it and say Salah, look at those abs, look at that goal record, he can actually keep doing this. Maybe we need to change how we think about player longevity but I think it might have helped the kind of treatment of Trent at the time. Trent obviously left on a free transfer and seemed to get a lot of flak for the choice he made. I think if Liverpool had taken the decision not to renew Salah maybe it helps the perception of Trent as well. And then to circle back to this point about how illogical their summer recruitment seemed. Look, Liverpool are not a club that is owned by state sovereign wealth fund. Yeah, they've always gone about doing things differently and have become sort of best in class model to follow for other ownership groups in terms of like, you know, this is how you build a championship winning team without oil or gas behind you. And you could say that after what a decade or so of them being the owners. This was the full realization of the FSG model where their kind of commercial match day revenues were so high that they could have a summer transfer window that made you think of a city or a PSG in spending in a half a billion grows. But there was almost too much churn I would say in that football club. Too many new players introduced to the dressing room. That's a lot of psych evaluations you have to get right in terms of thinking are these not only players good fits for the team but are they as good fits as people? And also like I've always been sort of speaking to American ownership groups over the last few years. They've always been about opportunity cost. Like if you put 100 million in excess of 100 million in verts Isaac and close to 100 million in Ekitike, what happens if one of those or two of those players don't work out? Like how are you going to make that money back? How are you going to get someone outside of the Premier League to come close to paying them the wages they need to either go on loan or move? And so I understand where Liverpool fans are coming from with Arnie's slot. You know, I don't go to Anfield every other Sunday. I don't follow Liverpool away from, from home. I don't follow them as closely as the Wolf fans. So I'm not as in sync with what their matchday experience is like. But I do think he's had a lot of things to manage this season which you know, sort of I talked about that churn. We haven't mentioned the, the death of Diego Jota as well. And then I do think we are so quick to move on in football. You know I think in the past, you know a guy who won the league in his first season in a pre social media age would be given the benefit of the doubt to say you know what, we did introduce too many new players which needed time to assimilate. We did have a player who sadly passed away and players needed to grieve and you know, maybe he should have a third season because you know we've been talking about Xabi Alonso today. You know there was disappointment when Liverpool hired Arnie's slot and Xabiolonsour stayed at Leverkusen that year slot made them not regret that by winning the league
- [42:18]
James Pearce
and
- [42:19]
James Horncastle
okay, we're now back in the same situation. It was like oh well be great for Liverpool to have Chabulonso. I mean Arnie slot, he won the league. So you know it's, it's, it's not going to be a popular view but I do think there was a time when Sir Alex Ferguson could, I'm not, I'm not comparing slot with Sir Alex Ferguson but it would have been amazing to have social media around in the kind of late 80s when Ferguson was, you know, first began at Man United because I suspect he wouldn't have lasted until when he won his first Premier League title given the take economy that we now live in.
- [42:53]
Ayo Akimolere
Good point, good point. Well, let's see how it all works out because the Xabi Alonso era is about to begin whilst the Arnold slot era still continues at Liverpool. Gents, appreciate your time as always. Liam James, thanks for joining us and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.
- [43:12]
Podcast Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavro and Jay Beal. The executive producer was admirable to listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.
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