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- [00:00]
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- [01:46]
Carl Anchor
The Athletic FC Podcast.
- [01:53]
Ayo Akimwalere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Alexander Isak has refused to go on tour with Newcastle United and wants to leave. So who could afford him? And do Newcastle have any chance of actually keeping him? Okay with us today. Out in Singapore are Newcastle United correspondent Chris Woff and we've got Carl Anchor here as well. Chris Alexander, Isak Matthew not be on Newcastle's tour of Asia for preseason, but you are, which is great. Nice to see you there. But bring us up to speed with what's going on here because there've been so many rumors as to how he's not there, why he's not there, and if he's actually leaving Newcastle.
- [02:36]
Chris Woff
Yeah. So I've come out here to cover Newcastle's attempts to really, you know, globalize themselves make themselves big in in in East Asia and all we're talking about is the guys back in in the Northeast and that is Alexander Isaac. So Newcastle flew out on Thursday as did I and as I was arriving in Paris their squad list was released and Alexander east for this tour and Alexander Isak was not on it. The official club line was that he had picked up a minor thigh strain the week before and then he'd aggravated earlier in the week and that basically a long haul flight would not aid that recovery. But then later on in the day David Owenstein our colleague reported the news that actually Alexander Isak had also communicated his preference not to join Newcastle out any stage on this tour because he wants to explore the option of leaving the club. I mean Liverpool as David obviously also report earlier this month had communicated their willingness to potentially pay up to around £120 million for him. Newcastle have maintained throughout that Esak is not for sale and if they are going to sell him it certainly is not going to be for that sort of price. They would want more than that although they insist that basically no price would lure him away. Isak seems to have taken things into his own hands and to try and almost force a move is his back on Tyneside and the club still maintain that this injury is true. That's what's being communicated to them by Isak. But he hasn't featured in either of Newcastle's opening two pre season games. He wasn't at Celtic the previous weekend. But how at that point had said that he would go to Singapore. Now subsequently he did leave training on Monday at citing this thigh issue. But it all feels a little bit too circumspect for it all to have happened at all the same time. So yeah, Newcastle rather than building on success, what they like to do is shoot themselves in the foot after after a good season. And this summer has definitely been pretty disastrous so far. And this is, this is really the, the big firebomb which comes at I'll say the end of it. But let's hope there's, there's no further ones to come after this.
- [04:27]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay. I mean Carl as a football connoisseur, Alexander Isaac eye catching center forward. I mean what, what have you made of all of this? And I guess for me what have you made of the timing of it as well?
- [04:39]
Carl Anchor
Oh, I mean Isaac is just a glorious football player. I wrote a piece ahead of Euro 2020 where I called him a footballing unicorn. And then I had a bunch of people go what's a footballing unicorn? So unicorns aren't real, but for some reason you are always trying to find football players that have that magical combination of attributes. So it's all in one. And Isaac, even when he was at real Sociedad, even parts of the time when he was at Dortmund, people were looking at him going, how are you this tall and able to do all of the things that you were doing? This is a 6 foot 3, 6 foot 4, however you want to bill it. And he's dribbling like he's 5 foot 7. He has the pace to burn most center backs on the last line. He's also got the softness of touch and the link up play of a much smaller football player. He can hold the ball up with his back to goal, also spin it round, good link up play. He can run the channels like a winger. He's got it all. That's a unicorn. Back in the day you'd get two strikers player four, four, two. And each one would have half of Isaac's attributes. And yet for some reason this gentleman has them both. And he's got it at the age of 25. This is why Isaac is great. This is why everyone's quoting triple figure millions about him. And this is why even though he had disappointing season that Abrielle Sausage had, everyone was still looking at him going, oh, he'd be fun. The fact that Newcastle got him, amazing. You can look up a clip of me when the deal was announced on the Toly Football show and I'm actually fist pumping the air at the idea that Isak was going to be at the Premier League. I won. The questions was always, could he stay fit? Could a player who is this big and this technically skilled, could his body hold up with the intensity and the pressure of playing 30 plus games of League football and Champions League football? The question, the answer to that is sort of, Chris will be able to give better evidence there, but this talk of having a thigh injury is not ridiculous. He has had a history of thigh injuries at Newcastle. He has a history of. He's had groin issues at Newcastle and at Borussia Dortmund. He's had hamstring issues because yeah, when you're that tall and you're sprinting that intensely, you are always sort of at risk of something getting a knock. So maybe he legitimately does have a thigh injury. And yes, flying that many hours to Singapore, that can hurt you. The timing of this is really interesting because Liverpool have wanted him. I mean, you speak to any Arsenal fan and they all go, isak is an Arsenal striker. Like spiritually speaking. Spiritually speaking, Liam Dalap is a Alex Ferguson Manchester United player but he's playing at Chelsea right now and spiritually speaking, Isak looks like a striker that Arsene Wenger would have picked up for 2 million and some library books and he would have been brilliant back in the day. So the idea that he's making this move after Liverpool and Arsenal have made that have bought their strikers is a head scratcher. Maybe it could be just him going no, hang on. These two clubs are making moves in the market. I need to leave Newcastle because these two are going to be near the top of the Premier League table for a little bit. I don't want to win my trophies before a certain age. Maybe it could be is that going? Hang on. If Yokerez is going to Arsenal and getting paid this much and Akatike is going to Liverpool and getting paid this much, shouldn't I be getting paid more and going to Newcastle? Look, I'm going to leave unless you can sweeten my deal here or option C it could be Isaac is telling World Football hey I am putting in the groundwork to leave Newcastle if not now but next summer. If you listen to this on podcasts. Understand I'm doing a very big wink as I'm saying that. So that's my interpretation. Chris, please tell me if I've gone wrong here on anything.
- [08:04]
Ayo Akimwalere
I mean so many unknowns here. Chris right. I mean what is going on Real.
- [08:08]
Chris Woff
Talk well if you speak to one person, you speak to people in Newcastle and it's that he's not for sale, he's not going anywhere but you then speak to others within football and it's like that basically Woody Sack do this unless he was quite confident that someone was going to follow up with a bit or does he just now feel that he has put himself in that position as Carl mentions that he he sees other players moving elsewhere and thinks I'm going to have to be proactive about this if I want this to happen now. Ideally see me once a to happen now but maybe it will be through until next year. I mean Newcastle at the moment it was Eddie Howe over the weekend. I think that he's he's handled the situation as well as he possibly can for someone who's not in control of it. But equally how is usually very careful with his words. He very rarely misspeaks. He's usually in control of a press conference and because of the how big this scenario is he hasn't really been in control of it and he spoke on Saturday of Newcastle as a club having a big decision to make. Now that's a weird thing to say in the sense that as things stand they haven't received a bid. So what is the decision to make? They need to reintegrate Alexander Isak as things start. They don't have a decision to make right now. That would suggest it almost implies that they're expecting something to come because Isak expects something to come. So the reality of the situation is for now everyone is just almost waiting and saying is someone going to make that bid for Alexander Isak? And then if they do depend on what level it is, how will Newcastle respond to that? It's his decision. All of the messages are consistently that these not for sale. But you wouldn't say that he is for sale. So that. That you have to take that with a little bit of a pinch of salt. I think the the sort of trump card here or the joker card which none of us can really give an answer to is regardless of whether other people within the football club decide ultimately if Newcastle get a really really high offer for Isak. Yes, we don't want to lose our best player. We want to keep him. But he's unsettled. He wants to go. We realize that now is probably the time we have to sell him and we're going to reinvest that. How does Yasser am I in Newcastle United's chairman and governor of PIF respond to that? Because he could be the joker card and could just say no, we're not selling him. We just don't know how he will respond. He's in Newcastle, don't need the money. Theoretically. I mean they do in terms of it would allow them to reinvest in the squad but they're not under the same PSR problems there were 14 months ago when they had to sell by the June 30 deadline and lost Elliot Anderson and Yankuba Minda. They don't need to sell Alexander Isak and then it becomes a partly a football decision but then does it also become about prestige and power and the sort of do we really want to be seen to have been bullied into this situation by both the player and potentially a club who comes in from so that's a long way of me saying I don't really know Carl though.
- [10:46]
Ayo Akimwalere
I'm trying to understand his desire to leave here because is Newcastle's top striker. Newcastle are in competitions next season that a player of his caliber should be playing in and Newcastle on all fronts are looking to bolster this squad. To try and be one of the Premier League elites. He could be part of something great here.
- [11:02]
Carl Anchor
He could absolutely. It could be something part of something great. He could also join a project that is a little bit further along in that developmental process, is also in those same competitions and also maybe has a greater chance of winning trophies now. I think Newcastle and the trajectory they're on, they are going to be in the NBA parlance. They're going to be a problem and they're going to be a problem for some time. They're not going to go away. If you are Tottenham Hotspur or Manchester United or Chelsea or Aston Villa, you're looking at Newcastle and going, oh God, that's another Champions League rival. We've got to deal. And as Chris has already observed about the nature of their tour in East Asia, they are looking to expand from being a football team on national importance or continental regard to being one of international regard. Which means they are eventually going to figure out the finances and the interesting things that lawyers and accountants can do. That comes when you become a football club of an international status as like a psg, a Manchester City, a Chelsea and things in that regard. All of those things will happen between now and let's say 2035. But if you're Alexander Isaac and you're 25, you go, no, I want to win it all now before my hamstrings start slowing down. You know, if you're Isaac and going, I've not really played in a big Champions League game yet. I'd like to do that next season. Perhaps the best way to do that is to leave Newcastle and go somewhere else. If you want to get it all immediately, then the conversation happens. If it's a football conversation, if you're Newcastle's senior executives, you've got to offer Isaac the reassurance that this, the good times and the really good times and the shiny silverware is coming asap, that the League cup was just the start of something and that you're going for Champions leagues and Premier Leagues between now and let's say the next World cup cycle 2030 rather than the one after that. I think this is a really interesting case of yeah, I don't think Newcastle need to sell Alexander Isaac. There is maybe a thumb on the scale that is suggesting that might be quote unquote sensible but your mileage and sensibility there will vary depending on who you are as a fan base and how quickly you want things to happen. This is super intriguing to me because Newcastle aren't going to go away and they're going to be very good for, for quite some time. But there is, I think, the speed at which they want to get it done and what is possible when you're trying to get something done that quickly is making things a little bit difficult.
- [13:23]
Ayo Akimwalere
All right, before we move on, if you're looking for more reaction on England's second successive win in the Women's Euros, check out the Totally show with James Richardson. Charlotte Harper joins them from Basel with a lowdown from that dramatic penalty shootout win. Plus there's also a brand new full time episode too, looking at how England overcame Spain. Right, Carl. Back to back euros for England. The lionesses did it again. But there was a lot of drama in that game, wasn't there?
- [13:53]
Carl Anchor
They dug it out. They really, really dug it out. That first 30 minutes was quite tetchy to watch. Lauren James unfortunately didn't quite look fit and that caused some discomfort down, down the wing. When we talk about proper England, I think it's an idea about proper execution of what you're doing. I think if everyone's at 100%, Spain are probably the best team in Europe. I think England isn't too far off when everyone's 100%. The interesting bits about proper England is what happens when England are at 70% and who goes about fixing that. And thankfully England have got the best coach in European football, Serena Wiegman. It's not just back to back For England, it's €3 in a row for Serena. So yeah, everyone chip in a tenner. We can build a statue for Serena. Everyone chip in five quid so we can get a fruit basket for Chloe Kelly. We also need to get a fruit basket for Jessica who was fantastic. And Michelle, Michelle's little jig before she collected young player of the year Port Tear to my as well. A fantastic day of football and a penalty shooter that thoroughly stressed me out.
- [14:56]
Ayo Akimwalere
It's early England, don't you worry. Anyway, let's move on because next we'll get back to the ESAC saga and also discuss which clubs could afford to prize him away from St. James's Park.
- [15:08]
Chris Woff
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamilera.
- [15:14]
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- [16:17]
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- [16:47]
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- [17:24]
Ayo Akimwalere
Over on the Athletic, our football finance writer Chris Weatherspoon has broken down how much it would cost to sign Alexander Isak. Carl, let's take this into account. Transfer fee, agent fees, wages. Chris estimates Isaac could cost around £250 million. Is he worth it?
- [17:46]
Carl Anchor
Yeah, he's worth it. Of course. It's just that's a non starter of a question. Like Alexander Isaac is to my mind Top 5 strikers in Europe right now. You can, you know, so you've got Harry Kane, you've got Lewandowski, you've got Harlan and then you got Isaac and then Usman Dembele. Depending on your definition of striker. Yeah, okay, he's 250 million all in. But if you've, if you're the football club that can afford 250 million, you're probably looking to win a Champions League. And I'm pretty sure Isak is good enough to help you win a Champions League. And last time I checked, the broadcast money from the new expanded, new and improved league phase that you've wonderfully explained before. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the prize money there and other accruements from winning those sort of shiny pots will mean it's worth it. Look, I don't think the 250 million being touted for Isak all in is too far off the fee Manchester City has spent all in to get Haaland. So. Yeah, of course. Would you buy. Would. Would you buy Haaland if you had the chance? Yeah. Would you buy Isaac if you have the chance? It's the same. It's the same question. He's that good. Chris is just pulling a face here going stop doing this.
- [18:53]
Chris Woff
Yeah, he's not that good. No, he's not actually very good. Just forget about it. He's not great.
- [18:57]
Ayo Akimwalere
How'd you devalue him so quick, Chris? You know what I mean. I mean like. Look, I don't want to be boring about it, but you know we've spoke about the PSR stuff with Newcastle for so many times, right. But I'm just thinking, right, I know it feels like a backward step to potentially sell Esac Chris, but the money that comes in, you could totally boss this squad naturally with some decent forwards for that kind of money.
- [19:19]
Chris Woff
I don't want to be. I don't want to just sound overly negative, but theoretically yes.
- [19:23]
Carl Anchor
And.
- [19:24]
Chris Woff
And you've seen teams do it before. I mean prizing the Gareth Bale example from spurs is probably not the greatest because you can argue that they didn't invest that money particularly well. But it does. It would allow Newcastle to potentially strengthen other areas of their squad. It certainly would. At the moment they don't have PSR concerns in terms of. They don't have to sell anyone. But equally it would basically mean that over the next three year cycle they would have massive growth to be able to. In terms of a far bigger budget to be able to spend. And maybe they can even spend more on wages in the short to medium term. Ironically, given that part of the issue here is that Alexander Isak would like to partly higher wages as well as to. To move to a club who wins things all the time. But. But Newcastle have had a very, very difficult summer and they've struggled to recruit very good players as it is. Because basically as soon as Newcastle are head to head with one of these so called big six they tend to lose out. They managed to get Isac a few years ago because Arsenal take a long look at him. And then it decided after a poor season at saucy dad to go elsewhere. So Newcastle took that chance on him. The same with Sandro Tonali. A lot of clubs had looked at him for a long while. But that summer none of them had gone from like Newcastle had. Even Anthony Gordon. The previous summer Tottenham and Chelsea had gone strong from. But in the January after a poor six months they'd gone away and Newcastle managed to to bring him in. Bruno Guimaraj the same Arsenal looked at him but hadn't made that move. But with this summer Newcastle have gone for Liam De Lapp. They've gone for Dean Hoisen. They've gone for Joe Pedro. They've gone for Hugo Ekatike. They've gone for James Trafford and haven't signed any of them. Brian and Burma as well and they haven't signed it. They were all top targets. And the problem is that those players have gone to to either established Premier League il elite clubs or they've gone to sort of Real Madrid. And it was last summer they also were in for Michael Alise. And again he goes to Bayern Munich. They're trying to get these really really good players who they can theoretically afford because they have a release clause in the case of Elise and and Dalap or and Hoisen or because it's not necessarily absolutely elite in someone like Jao Pedro. But then they come up against Chelsea and they can't get them. So they despite having theoretically more money unless Newcastle they're going to pay inflated valuations in terms of how they much they value a player just end up paying more to make sure they beat someone again. That means that these act money wouldn't stretch as far and it would also just inflate every single deal that they have. And I think that you also have the problem of Newcastle have always known internally if Isak is to go at some stage, we ideally need his replacement to be in beforehand because of the inflationary pressures of the money that Isac brings. So if Newcastle order let him leave this summer, ideally they'd have his replacement in beforehand. Even partly why they went for Hugh Gregor Tiki. The idea was to pair him and Isak together. But long term there was the idea that Isak may leave and then Hugh Gregotike theoretically could be that replacement. He's now no longer there. So yes, Newcastle could spend that money but it's just not as easy or simple. Certainly the way that this summer has worked out that Newcastle could go and do that. And the problem they also have beyond that is when you talk about all these strategic ideas as to how they could spend that money. And Newcastle don't have a sporting director at the moment. Paul Mitchell left on June 30th. Their CEO handed his notice last September but is still in post because Newcastle haven't appointed a subsequent CEO. So he's working despite having a chronic illness. There's just a lack of. Of sort of strategic thinking there. Lack of decision making above. And Newcastle have a sort of interim transfer committee who are working very hard at what they're trying to do. But they are not senior people in experience in this regard. And. And that's another reason why Newcastle struggle this summer. So as much as I've basically torn apart the point that you just made, Newcastle have to have a lot of things that they need to be put in place really. And that's why this is like situation has come at the worst possible time because they also don't have that sporting director in position who. And CEO who should be saying this is exactly what we should be doing. Instead it's. It's sort of. You've got boardroom level and then it goes down to essentially Eddie Howe and. And the transfer team.
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Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. Chris, I'm just thinking as a Newcastle fan here, it must be quite frustrating one that unfortunately Newcastle are trying to climb up the table and establish themselves as a real elite club in the Premier League but then get pipped to the post by a team like Manchester United who probably didn't have the greatest season but just due to heritage, a player like Mbuema goes there. But also you've got a team that really wants to keep its best assets. But what's going on in the background isn't quite succinct as well. I mean Newcastle fans must be tearing their hair out going when are we actually going to get this right?
- [23:39]
Chris Woff
Yeah. And there's been a lot of questions over the last 12 to 18 months from Newcastle fans. Basically wondering what this quote unquote project is. The idea is that you. We heard Yasser or Amayan on the Amazon documentary that Newcastle did a couple of years ago where they talked about wanting to be number one. And I mean they have PSR constraints which prevent them from doing that to a certain degree. But the club who's aiming to be number one in the world be going into one of the most important transfer windows in their modern history without a sporting director and with an outgoing CEO. The strategic thinking doesn't seem to be there. St. James's park or the future of the stadium. Are they going to build a new stadium? That's something which the Cannes just keep getting kicked down the road on. Yes, it's a huge decision financially and also in terms of Newcastle's heritage. But that's also the longer that takes to make the decision, the longer it takes to eventually happen. Same with the new training ground. And players have been promised these things or sold this vision when they came in. ESAC among them is in this is where the club is going. This is where we're going to be in a few years time and then two or three years on it's that. Well yes on the pitch they've actually performed extremely well. And Eddie Howe and in his coaching staff and the players have really shown that they can be elite or close to elite. But then the rest of the club is struggling to catch up and that that's when people do start a question. I can see why Isak probably is questioning. He's probably thinking where are all these promises that were made to me? Where all these other players are going to sign because of PSR issues. They hadn't actually signed a senior player for the previous three transfer windows. Anthea Langa ironically is Sweden teammate and very good friend of Alexander Isaac comes in at the start of this window. But they'd gone through a few periods where they hadn't strengthened and so. So all these players are seeing what feels like a plateauing of the project. And can it go on to the next stage is the big question that we have to wait and see whether and how Newcastle are going to get there.
- [25:24]
Carl Anchor
I think Chris touched upon something brilliantly there about also the changing in transfer strategy. Because if you look. I mean Newcastle's best players, Isaac bought from Real Sociedad, Guimares picked up from Lyon, Sandro Tonali, AC Milan. So there's this sort of spine of good imports was initially from looking around Europe's top five leagues looking at the comparative middle class in terms of finances and picking them up. Whereas this summer they've been looking to buy Premier League proven players. And when you're trying to buy Premier League proven players you're also in competition with other Premier League teams and that's not quite working. I think you know Dan Ashworth was there for as the sporting director for a little bit and then he got nabbed by Manchester United for five months. That everyone's gonna blink and you're missing. That'll be a pop quiz answer for a Bit Mitchell lasted a season. Newcastle right now feel like a team that is talking about five year plans and talking about doing things in five year plans. But there isn't someone who's been there for that long period who can actually get it done apart from Eddie Howe. And this is why. I mean there's an incredible amount of work he is doing that perhaps shouldn't be done by the head coach, by the manager. So far he's getting it done. So he's getting it done so far. But I can understand why there is this pressure or this sort of the frustration not just from the fan base but also from two or three the Newcastle players going when is the other stuff coming in? The trophy win last season was fantastic but now they, you know, you get the disease of more where you go I've got one. I want loads more and I want them quickly. Yeah.
- [26:49]
Ayo Akimwalere
Is there a PSR glass ceiling forming? Carl, do you reckon in terms of. I'm just thinking about the kind of money it will take to price someone like Isaac away from Newcastle. There's only a few teams in the Premier League that can do that. But then there's also quite a few teams who are harbored by PSR and they can't spend in the same way.
- [27:06]
Carl Anchor
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Psr. I know. Well, going from what I see online when I dip into Newcastle Twitter, shall we say there's a deep frustration that these PSR rules are in place and the belief that if they weren't there, Newcastle would simply just completely. It's not quite buying in Pape and Jude Bellingham next week but they'd be in a much better place and there'd be more of a problem and I mean problem as a compliment and be right up there in the table instead of having to go here or there and losing out on certain. Certain targets. PSR and the rules they are as they currently exist. If you are a football club of quote unquote greater historical importance and your mileage may vary there. It's easier to buy things because your ebitda you know your earnings before all the big stuff that Chris likes to talk about is higher. Manchester United can spend more money because Manchester United bring in more money because they're a worldwide brand whereas Newcastle United are building their worldwide brand so therefore they're finding it harder to spend. That is deeply frustrating especially when you're going head to head for players like Brian Mbuemo and Mbuemo is still choosing to go for to for a Manchester United team that finished in 15th compared to a Newcastle that finished in the Champions League. These things will get corrected in time. There is no doubt in my mind that Newcastle will get the sporting director that will devise a transfer strategy and key in on oh wait, we were really successful. We went shopping in France. Should we do that again? There's no doubt in my mind that whatever decision is made around St. James's park or a new stadium that that new stadium will be full of all the nice things that the Tottenham Hotspur stadium has and other things as well. There is no doubt in my mind that when the training ground is redeveloped and finished that will be a world class training ground and will help in the pitch to get other players in. The problem is when you're getting those things built there are players there waiting and they're not getting any younger and they're going I would like to win things now. We've seen this with Arsenal when Arsenal were going to build the Emirates Stadium. You can talk about this about how certain Arsenal players went wait. It's really hard to win trophies when you're building a football stadium. Tighten A Hotspur went a whole year without buying a football player when they were in Wembley and they were in the process of getting their their ground built. I'm sure this is me knocking on wood. I'll be really interested to see what happens to Manchester United in terms of on the field displays when they're getting their stadium built. So it's really difficult because you want to fast forward and get to the good bit. But unfortunately you're in the bit where you got to get out the mud and you're wondering which players are going to be there as you do it. And at this point in time it's looking like and again this could all change in two or three weeks. It's looking like Alexander Isaac's looking around Newcastle going maybe this one isn't for me.
- [29:35]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah Chris. Is this the jarring bit though in the Newcastle also don't have the time or don't look like they're wasting time in any in any way shape or form. But the reality is still the reality.
- [29:45]
Chris Woff
We'Re in with Newcastle. There was a massive rise after the takeover and after Eddie Howe came in. There were relegation fodder that season that looked dead set to go down and win any of the Open 14 games and then they qualify for the champions league within 18 months and you go on that trajectory and then as supporters or people following the club you think it's just going to continue in that way. Particularly if you look at what happened before with Manchester City and Chelsea, but the scenario is very different now. And so it does feel like they are shackled. And as Carl mentions, at least some Newcastle fans feel that the rules have almost been rewritten to try and prevent them from joining that elite and they haven't yet shown the inclination to sort of circumnavigate the rules of you, if you want to call it that in terms of they haven't sold a hotel to themselves or they haven't sold their women's team as of yet. They haven't. And some fans are questioning well why haven't you sort of done that? And Newcastle have been quite clear that they were the ownership being clear all along. We want to to do this within the rules, but the problem with doing it within the rules is that there is a limit to how quickly you can grow. And until their commercial revenue massively grows until their match day revenue massively grows until they're in the Champions League every season and even in the the World Club cup, they're not going to be able to compete with that financially every single year. We know that at the end of the day long term wages are the biggest barometer for how, how and where the club will finish and Newcastle can't pay those wages yet. So yes, it feels like as much as Newcastle want to get there really, really quickly, if they're going to stay within the rules, then it's going to be a slow burn before they do you well.
- [31:16]
Ayo Akimwalere
Let's move on from ESAC and next we'll discuss Newcastle's incoming business.
- [31:22]
Chris Woff
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalara.
- [31:29]
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Yep.
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- [33:02]
Carl Anchor
Carol, you're in remission. I think what gets me most about this whole journey that I've been through is just how many jigsaw pieces come together to help someone like me. I've met people who have just packaged the drugs, just this white box saying World Courier on it. But I want to better say thank you to every single person that works.
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Chris Woff
On these things because they've saved my life. Every single one of them.
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Carl Anchor
Every minute World Courier makes another life changing delivery. Learn more Search World Courier.
- [33:37]
Chris Woff
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akmolera.
- [33:43]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah well last season only Mohamed Salah scored more than Alexander Isak. That's 23 Premier League goals. Chris if he is to leave how do Newcastle firstly replace him? Because you know players like Callum Wilson have left the club. I mean they're really struggling for attacking pro s right now.
- [34:00]
Carl Anchor
Now.
- [34:00]
Chris Woff
Yeah, I mean I think the short answer is that you don't replace Alexander Isak for like, for like. I mean the fact that Alexander Isak could be going for a British record fee if he does leave shows the talent which Carlos outlined earlier on and, and Newcastle had spent 60 more than 60 million pounds to sign him three years ago. He's gone on to hold another level since then but there was an element of a calculated gamble at that point because they, they saw the potential there. But does he translate that into the Premier League? Does he translate that that into the the very highest levels they could try and do similar and sign a player. David Onc report last week that Newcastle been exploring a deal for RB Leipzig's Benjamin Sesko. They actually tried to sign him during the summer of 2022 having originally inquired about Isak and being told that they would have to meet a release clause which was higher than the fee they eventually paid. They actually came quite close to signing Cesco when he before he'd actually moved to Germany and and he is similar in in some ways he said not in terms of necessarily the way that he plays but as a sort of frontline strike error. One who has been linked with basically every single top club in Europe. A bit more physical but can lead the lead the line. Newcastle really really like him. Whether that happens we'd have to wait and see on that front Otherwise. As you mentioned though, Callum Wilson has left and Newcastle are very light. Willasula, the 21 year old who is still very raw. Newcastle signed him from Sheffield United last year. 10 million pound basically has seen it seem as a developmental player. He has led the line the first two preseason games. He's played the most minutes so far and he's willing and he has sort of all of the attributes except he's not. He doesn't look like a clinical finisher. And. And then the replacement is an 18 year old called Sean Neve who is an exciting academy prospect but he hasn't made a first team appearance in a competitive match yet. And Sonia Castle just looks so toothless up front and. And all clubs know that. And that's the problem they have. Callum Wilson left because Newcastle opted not to enact a one year extension in his contract because he he was a high earner. They tried to negotiate a sort of more almost pay as you play based or so incentivized in that regard. He turned that down and looks to be going elsewhere. And then that's left Newcastle without a second striker. And with Isak in the situation he is now without a frontline striker. And they have Champions League football next year which they didn't have last year. So even if Isak stays given there have been questions about his durability. Can he play 38 Premier League games plus a minimum of eight in the Champions League? Probably 10 if not more. You say it's unlikely. So there needs to be dovetailing. They've been in negotiations with Brentford that for Johan Visser he would be a Callum Wilson replacement. He's not an Alexander Isak replacement. But as things stand there's been no progress in that deal. Brentford themselves have lost a lot of frontline players. They haven't signed anyone yet. And it feels like the sort of this knock on effect in terms of teams are being intransigent in terms of not letting their own players go until they bring someone in. But it's like there needs to be a domino effect of one leading the other. And as things stand that's not how it's working out for Newcastle. So they've had to Reassess several times already. There's some of the reason that went for Liam Delap, although they never really felt they were going to get him was the release clause in terms of relative value. That's why everyone really went for him. Joe Pedro was because of the profile. Premier League experience. Can play through the middle. Could have played with Isak, could have played out wide, could have played in a few different positions as a number 10. They liked him. They try to sign him in 2022 as well. Same with Hugo Ekatike. He could play in a few different positions, could play with Isak, but also theoretically could have been the successor to Isak. Instead, Newcastle have missed out on all those players. They're having to go down the list. They're having to reassess. They're making inquiries to a lot of clubs in the Premier League and across Europe basically to find out the market for strikers. So nothing seems imminent in that regard. And it's frustrating because it's been a frustrating window as it is. Only Anthony Elanga has arrived so far and as good as signing as I think he may become. Newcastle haven't strengthened the other key positions they needed to and could be losing the very best player.
- [37:44]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. I want you to put your strikers connoisseur hat on. Carl Benjamin Sesco. My query is with him. The numbers are decent, but is he a plug and play striker that would slip into this Newcastle squad and be ready to go in the Premier League?
- [38:01]
Carl Anchor
Right. First things first. Me and Mark Carey. Hi, Mark. In a data team always go, no such thing as a plug and play.
- [38:07]
Chris Woff
Okay.
- [38:08]
Carl Anchor
You always got to look at the fit. You always got to look at the fit. How am I going to explain this? Some strikers are sledgehammers, some strikers are swords. He's a sword sledgehammer.
- [38:20]
Ayo Akimwalere
This feels like Dungeons and Dragons, mate. What's going on?
- [38:24]
Carl Anchor
I mean there are very few strikers in in the world in who are going to be playing the Champions League that are taller than Isaac. But Sesko is one of them. He's 6 foot 5 depending on which billing you're reading. And yeah, he's a big lad who plays like a big lad. If. If. One of the thing that makes Isak really interesting is that he makes a complete mockery of good feet for a big lad. Sesco has good feet for a big lad. Right. He's not as clean in his dribbling, his ball striking. He's got a cannon of a shot. He's a little bit inconsistent there. His off ball move. I mean Jacob, if If you're listening to this, I heartily recommend you go on the Athletic and you read Jacob Whitehead's brilliant seven step guide to Isaac's off ball movement and why this makes Isaac so amazing. There are very, very few strikers that can move off the ball to the same degree he has. Liam Tharm's also done a brilliant piece on why he's the king of the six yard box. And also how he enters, they call it, you know, how do you enter the penalty area? How do you enter the second six yard box that Shira and Lenek always talk about? So the zone between the penalty area and the actual six yard box and also what you do in a six yard box, Isaac's the way he runs into all of those. He sort of slows down the second six yard box so he can speed up in the final one and that makes him really, really good at scoring, tappings. Cesco doesn't necessarily have that movement. He's a little bit, bit too obvious in what he's doing right now. He's very, very fond of a Tyrion Refinish. So I'm in the left half space, I'm one on one, the goalkeeper. I'm going to open my body up and try and wrap my right foot around the ball and put in a far post. There's been two or three times where he's gotten that space and I know exactly what he's going to do, which means goalkeepers know, I know exactly how to defend against that. Whereas Isak, for example, has two or three moves on his menu that make him a little bit more formidable. Now, of course you say, well, Cesko's 22, he's going to just pick up all this rest, all the rest of the stuff later. And I think that's what a number of clubs have always been looking at him for. I saw him in Stuttgart last summer during Slovenia's game against Denmark. He was playing in a 4, 4, 2 and he was fine. He was okay. Didn't necessarily jump off the page. If you didn't know who he was, you wouldn't say that's the best player in the Slovenian team. He also very much look like a striker who, yeah, you want him in a 4, 4, 2. For now he's the big man in the big man, little man partnership that we don't always play anymore. I think the big thing with Cesko was one, it was very, very smart of him to make the move from RB Salzburg to RB Leipzig rather than to go to Arsenal or Manchester United or any other club last season because he needed stability and needed more game time. 2. I think Leipzig's position right now. Relatively bad season finished outside of European places means that Xavi Simons and Chesko. They'll listen to bids which are going to put to you know more than one Premier League team in the market for him. But thirdly the money that RB Leipzig will probably want for Benjamin is 70 million plus. And 70 million plus for a striker who is just that bit more raw. You know. A little bit more unrefined compared to other strikers. I think may have two or three clubs weary. No doubt in my mind. You put him in front of Newcastle and you've got someone like Alanga who can get down the byline and whipping crosses. You've got someone like Anthony Corden who can do pullbacks. You've got those fullbacks. Those are some tasty fullbacks. Newcastle have that. He will get 10 goals. Is he going to push you to 15 to 20 to keep Newcastle in the Champions League spaces? Right now I've got my question marks and I think that's probably what the team at Newcastle are looking at or going. He's good. Is he good enough to make sure we stay in the top five next season?
- [41:55]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay. Okay. You were urging on slight optimism there. It was like a balanced analysis. I gotta say. Now even before the Isaac situation. Right. It had been a frustrating summer. It has been a frustrating summer for Newcastle. James Trafford last week becoming the latest player to turn them down. As we've referenced after defeat to Arsenal. Eddie Howe was actually asked about the Newcastle's transfer dealings with focus on their need for forwards. Here's what he had to say.
- [42:25]
Carl Anchor
We're not deluded. We know that we need to bring players in. We've known that for a long time. The tail end of last season. As I said, we did all the work. We know who we wanted. It's been a challenging transfer window. Let's see what we can do towards the end of it.
- [42:41]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. That was Eddie Howe speaking on the transfer window. Chris. You can hear it in his voice. He sounds super frustrated. And we've spoken about the transfers. They've not been able to get over the line. But how difficult is his role? Because Karl alluded to it. He's more than just the manager of the club really.
- [42:57]
Carl Anchor
He. He's.
- [42:58]
Ayo Akimwalere
He's doing more at Newcastle. But he's also done a fantastic job since being there.
- [43:02]
Chris Woff
He has done a fantastic job and he deserves all the plaudits he's rightly had for Newcastle. Wouldn't be in the position as I said earlier that the. The coaching and the playing side of things is the only elite real side of Newcastle at the moment or the of certainly the bit which is really fast forwarded. I mean how is doing more than being sort of the head coach you could argue is the manager. But there is an element of that. Certainly he's corded control to a certain degree. He had control when he first came in because he didn't have a sporting director. And then when Dan Ashworth came in he sort of retained a lot of that power. Last year when Paul Mitchell was brought in there was a sort of bit of a reshuffle and initially they really butted heads and. And seemingly this summer it's gone back to the opposite and. And Eddie Howe has a significant amount of power so he definitely needs a spawn director there. He definitely needs a CEO. But at the same time he also likes to to be able to have that Silver transfer see what he selected the players who Newcastle have gone for and have been unable to sign. And you can see exactly why he wants to sign. He's very particular about players. He. You speak to anyone and they'll tell you that Eddie Howe is almost does the work of a scout himself. Once he's shown a player he does so much due diligence and that's both a positive and a negative because then he knows all about about the players. But at the same time if Newcastle then miss out on a player to to find somewhat of an equivalence in terms of that he has that detailed information about. It's not easy to do that quickly because he doesn't have that right at that stage and he was very frustrated and. And I think that he's been. It's been quite clear these frustrated and I also flustered would be a bit strong. But I think that that this weekend because Isak has come to dominate everything that that's happening in Newcastle understandably right now and. And it was. It almost blindsided Newcastle because they were flying across to to East Asia at the time when when the ESAC news broke about the the reason why he wasn't there and so. So they'd arrived and then there was a press conference in their hotel on Saturday 22nd floor of the of a very plush hotel in the middle of Singapore and how usually doesn't over speak. He doesn't misspeak but. But. But he gave an answer when he was asked about whether this situation needed to be resolved quickly and everyone thought he had finished including the the press officer it was bringing in the next, next person to ask a question, next journalist and how just suddenly put it in and just was like he introduced the word distracted. He said we're not distracted. Which just basically said everything that this situation has come to dominate everything at Newcastle. And given the negativity that's already there, it has been frustrating. But I do think Anthony Elanga is a good sign that do have some good players already. They have the basis of what can be a very, very good squad. If you lose Isac, that's a massive loss. But if they can bring in a couple of those players, you said if they can spend that money quite well. If he does go then they, they can still have a good season and still have a crack at the Champions League. If he sacked is to stay then. Now Eddie Howe's big job is this was the first time he really has had a sort of elite player of that, of that capacity. A world class player who seemingly has to reintegrate and he has to bring back on board even if that is just for six months or a year. And that is going to be a big test of his management. But even frustrated and potentially even stroppy Alexander Isak come October, November, once he's in the rhythm of things, once he's playing those Champions League matches, he will score goals and it will be better for Newcastle to have them than not to have them. So there can still be, I wouldn't say, I won't say necessarily a happy ending to this, but I don't think it has to necessarily be as catastrophic as maybe we all feel it in that initial moment of losing Alexander Isak would be or even keeping Alexa, keeping a very unhappy Alexander east like the castle still can get through this. It's just going to be a fair amount of short term pain beforehand.
- [46:38]
Carl Anchor
Absolutely. I think there's some turbulence in there but I mean heart, heart if you ask me, if I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I think PSR and financial issues from other clubs mean he's more likely than not to stay at Newcastle at least for another season. And then next summer I think then you start looking abroad and going, oh my God, don't Barcelona need to replace Lewandowski? So I mean I'd love it if he's like stayed because he's just a joy to watch in the Premier League. And also I'd love it if he left because that's one less thing I've got to be worried about.
- [47:14]
Ayo Akimwalere
So Chris, fingers crossed. One more season with Isaac. Chris I know you've got to go catch a flight, so I don't want to rub any more salt into your wound. So off you go, sir. Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Always a pleasure. We'll speak to you guys next time.
- [47:30]
Chris Woff
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [47:32]
Carl Anchor
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead.
- [47:37]
Chris Woff
To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic.
- [47:46]
Carl Anchor
Media company production the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [47:51]
Chris Woff
Network.
- [47:58]
Carl Anchor
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