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- [00:00]
California Lottery Advertiser
Dashing through the store, Dave's looking for a gift. One you can't ignore. But not the socks he picked.
- [00:07]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I know.
- [00:07]
Adam Crafton
I'm putting them back.
- [00:08]
California Lottery Advertiser
Hey Dave, here's a tip. Put scratchers on your list.
- [00:11]
Adam Crafton
Oh, scratchers.
- [00:12]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Good idea.
- [00:12]
California Lottery Advertiser
It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.
- [00:15]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Thanks random singing people.
- [00:17]
California Lottery Advertiser
So be like Davis Holiday and give the gift of play Scratchers from the California Lottery. A little play can make your day.
- [00:27]
Adam Crafton
Please play responsibly.
- [00:28]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Must be 18 years or older to.
- [00:29]
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- [01:31]
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- [02:03]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. The Premier League presented a Christmas cracker of a weekend. From Morgan Rodgers Magic to Spurs red card and perhaps the worst Premier League team ever. And we'll disse it all right now. With us today we have Adam Crafton. We've also got Jack Pitt Brook as well. Right, let's get into the festive spirit and what better way to do it than with some heartwarming football stories. We'll get to the bad a little later on, but let's start with the good and Two stunning strikes from Aston Villa's Morgan Rogers at Villa park on Sunday.
- [02:45]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Rogers, has he kept it alive?
- [02:48]
Adam Crafton
He has and he can run at Euro.
- [02:51]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
This is Morgan Ro Mar impeach. That is an absolute. Ben has sighted across and it's come to Morgan Rogers.
- [03:05]
California Lottery Advertiser
He is the man.
- [03:08]
Ayo Akimolere
His brace earned aston Villa a 21 win over Manchester United, making it 10 wins in a row for unai Emery side. Rogers is now on seven goals for the season. Adam, what did you make of his performance?
- [03:19]
Adam Crafton
He was amazing, but he was like Villa's only kind of good player on the day. Like Villa. Villa were a really strange performance yesterday in that, you know, they've just won 10 in a row and they're on this amazing run and they're playing against a very depleted Manchester United. And you kind of came away sort of almost less convinced by Villa in some ways, but incredibly convinced by this one individual who scored two fantastic goals. It was interesting. If you kind of just think it more from an England perspective. Thomas Tuchel has been putting a lot of faith in Morgan Rodgers over sort of recent months, and it's probably something that Jack is better placed to speak to than me. I think maybe people thought, oh, he was just making a point to some of the other England players, you know, like the Foden, Palmer, Bellingham about this is, you know, some of the work rate, maybe that he wants from that position, some of the attributes he wants from that position. But now you'd start to watch Morgan Rodgers and think like, it was quite hard not to play him for England yesterday proved that once again.
- [04:22]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, well, he's been. I think he was arguably one of the best players over the course. Those three international breaks they had in the autumn in that. The 50 win they had in Serbia in September, which was really the best game of the Thomas Tuchel era so far. Rodgers played in the number 10 role in Bellingham's position and I thought he was brilliant that day and he did everything that Tuchel would want him to do. And so I think when it comes to that, that debate about the number 10 role for England, you know, we. Everybody has opinions about Bellingham and Foden and Cole Palmer and understandably so, and Breccia. But, you know, Rogers is kind of the man in possession like Bellingham did start the last game, but Rogers has started more games than anyone else there in the last few months. And I think he's also showed for Aston Villa week in, week out. Why he has to be part of that conversation.
- [05:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Can I put you on the spot. Then out of Rogers, Foden, Bellingham, essay and Palmer. You can only take two to the World Cup, Jack, who are you going for?
- [05:15]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Well, do you mean take 2 as a number 10? Because you can always cheat a bit and say, well, I'll take Eze as a left winger.
- [05:22]
Ayo Akimolere
I knew you'd come up with some smart answer. You know what I mean?
- [05:24]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I'll take Foden as a false nine, and then maybe take Bellingham as a number six. And then all of a sudden you manage to. You can find a way to undertake two number tens. Simple.
- [05:35]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, it is Christmas, so you can have a special gift. What would you say, Adam, if we.
- [05:40]
Adam Crafton
Say which two would start? Probably Palmer and Rodgers?
- [05:44]
Ayo Akimolere
No. Bellingham.
- [05:45]
Adam Crafton
No.
- [05:45]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Because for me, Palmer is the one that I wouldn't take if I was only out of those five.
- [05:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Simply because you wouldn't take Cole Palmer.
- [05:51]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Well, under the auspices of this kind of hypothetical situation, you set up ao. But in the sense that Palmer's not played for England for ages, like Palmer's. Palmer's not been involved in any of the squads recently. He hasn't been. I think he came on as a. I think he came on as a sub in the June window, but we've not really seen him that well integrated into Thomas Tuchel's team. And, you know, that's not his fault. He just keeps being injured during the course of international breaks. But I think that if I was going to. I mean, I personally, I would like to find a way to just shoehorn him into the squad because he's such a match winner. But if I could, if I had to not take one of those guys, it would probably be him. Just because I wouldn't. I wouldn't know how he fits with the team in quite the same way.
- [06:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, fair. Well, we'll talk about Rogers some more because he's a player that's kind of come out of nowhere. Villa signed him from the championship at Middlesbrough at the beginning of 2024. 24 goals and 22 assists in 93 games for VIL. I guess the question always is, can a championship player do it in the Premier League? He seems to be doing it, doesn't he?
- [06:52]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, it's worth having a bit of, I guess, calm around it, you know, he still only scored in four games this season. It feels like after he scored those two goals yesterday, in my head I was like, oh, my God, he's having a Gareth Bale season. Just because you sort of just keep seeing these, like, not just goals, absolute worldies. But absolute world is, I'm trying to, you know, think of like the season where Bale was at spurs and just sort of ended up scoring 20, 25 goals and was unbelievable and goes to Real Madrid. But he's clearly very special and he's had an interesting career trajectory. You know, if you think about the different clubs he's been at, he's been in the championship with Middlesbrough, but he was also in at Man City for a period of time. It's incredible to think the players that have kind of gone through Man City's youth system, just out of those that we just mentioned, you know, Foden Palmer, Rodgers, Lian Delap, who's obviously at Chelsea now as well. And I think Rodgers gets quite a lot of freedom within this Emery team because it's a very kind of workmanlike team and he works very hard as well. And there isn't that much room for flair players. You know, really most of the players in there are kind of doing the job, but Rogers is kind of the special one. There is a forwarded a bit more leeway. Equally, it might help if the opponents recognize that he wants to cut in from the left and shoot.
- [08:17]
Ayo Akimolere
Just loves it, doesn't she?
- [08:19]
Adam Crafton
Yeah. Which he seemed to surprise Man United yesterday. So it'll be interesting to see, like, how he deals with, you know, he's now getting this status of being basically Villa's best player. And Villa are currently the third best team in the league. So, you know, he's going to get more attention and he's going to have to find ways around that.
- [08:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. I mean, you mentioned Manchester United. Just a quick word. Bruno Fernandes obviously will be missing for a while. We don't know how long, but Matthias Kunha scored yesterday. Do you think he's the one to step up into that position and could also Manchester United finally see what life looks like without Bruno Fernandez? Adam?
- [08:53]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, I mean, it's not been good when they've had to play without him previously. Quite often over the last few years, you've had these periods where people would say when Fernandez was playing and maybe going through more difficult periods. Oh, United should try playing without Fernandez because they'll keep the ball better. Then he'll miss a game or two and they'll just lose. That's. That's generally been. I appreciate they lose quite a lot when he plays as well, but when he doesn't play, the record is worse. It's hard to say that Kun is the replacement now because Fernandez has been playing in this deeper position. So the replacement really is Kobbie Mainoo, but we're waiting to see whether Kobbie Mainoo is going to be fit because he missed the game kind of unexpectedly yesterday. So if not, you then get into like, is it Casemiro Nogate? Lisandro Martinez played as a midfielder yesterday. They've got all these players who have now gone to AFCON as well. The good news is, on paper, the fixtures really aren't that bad. Over Christmas you've got Newcastle at home and then Leeds Wolves and Burnley. I know they don't win that many games United, but really they've got to be getting nine, 10 points out of that, you would think, or at least eight. I think that's the good thing. But it, but it's a blow because invariably Fernandez is the player that makes things happen for them.
- [10:13]
Ayo Akimolere
I mean, Jack. Adam doesn't seem convinced, but Villa still in touch in distance of Arsenal, I think just three points behind them. Should we start taking them seriously as title contenders?
- [10:23]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I'd be surprised. I think they, you know, they've certainly made lots of predictions from the start of the season look a bit silly because of how well they've done. You know, I think at the start of the season when they started so slowly, people thought, ah, that, you know, maybe this whole project has run out of steam and they've confounded all of that. I just, I beat. Look, I, I'm not expecting them to be right up there with Manchester City and Arsenal at the very end of the season just because, you know, the second half of the season is really going to test out their depth. They're still. I'm expecting them to go all the way in the Europa League. I mean, I think they're, they're probably the best team in the Europa League. So there's no, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to get through to that final. And I just think that City and Arsenal's experience in these situations and their quality and depth will probably tell. But, I mean, there's no reason they can't get back. I mean, regardless of what happens in the Europa League, there's no reason they can't get back into next season's Champions League via the Premier League. Like, they're easily, easily good enough to be top five. And they're showing that every week at the moment.
- [11:17]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, not Premier League potentially, Adam, but Europa League feels very in their reach, especially with Unai Emery's record in that competition.
- [11:24]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, I guess they may just at a certain point have a bit of a choice to make about. We saw with Tottenham and Manchester United last season that going deep in the Europa League becomes a bit of a choice at times. If you've got a small squad between, you know, do we try and win this trophy and give everything to that, or do we concentrate on Premier League position? And, you know, we've seen Villa a couple of times just kind of fall away a bit in the Premier League. And I think, I do think it's more important for them this season to like, I know obviously you get into the Champions League if you win the Europa League, but it's more of a lottery if you're relying on winning a final. I think it would be really good for Villa as a club this season to finish third or fourth more than it would be to win the Europa League. Personally, you know, having missed out on the Champions League this season, again, very narrowly, the challenge with that is Emery loves the Europa League, so I can't see him making that judgment at any point whatsoever. But they do have a, you know, a pretty lean squad beyond the kind of first 14, 15 and particularly in the attacking positions, you know, they don't score many goals. I think They've only scored 15 home goals this season in the Premier League. That's not a lot to be scoring by Christmas. I was watching the game yesterday, it was like, I thought certainly first half Man United were as good, if not better than Villa. In fact, definitely first half and second half pretty even as well. But at the moment it seems like Villa just find a way to win in a way that Man United just find a way not to win. And that's a pretty. That's a really good habit for Villa to have. But then you get into kind of, are they out doing the underlying data? Does that matter? Kind of. Let's see, they've got Chelsea and Arsenal over the next week or so. I would expect by March that City and Arsenal will have pulled away from them and maybe even Liverpool catch them up. For me, it's like the fourth and fifth positions are the ones that Villa should see as kind of their goal.
- [13:24]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I'd be really curious to hear what Villa fans think their priority should be because obviously so far under Emery, they've come close, ish to trophies without. But always, as Adam says, they've struggled with the fact that, you know, if you have and if you're competing multiple fronts, you've got tons of games over the course of the season. It's really, really hard to keep all the plates spinning at the same time. Like In Emory's first full season, they got to the semis of the Conference League. Last season they got FA cup semi, Champions League quarterfinal, and then they finished sixth. And so this year it might be, you know, they might be in a good position in, in the league and in the cups coming through until March, April. And that's when you suddenly, like, it can all collapse in on you. Or maybe you have to start allocating resources. And I just wonder what, what the fan base will want the manager to do under those, under those circumstances. Because it's a really difficult. It's a really difficult situation for a club to be in if you don't have Manchester City size resources.
- [14:18]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. But then I look at it, and I know you say this because I'm from the West Midlands and I've got a lot of Mesua Villa fans. Villa's last trophy was in 1996, the League cup, which was called the Coca Cola Cup. I mean, that's a long time to wait. You try saying, okay, you're not going to get a European trophy this season. You just get top four. I mean, that's so hard to stomach, gents.
- [14:35]
Adam Crafton
Yeah.
- [14:35]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
And that's why I think it makes sense to go all out for that trophy, because the fans will remember that more than they'll remember coming fifth.
- [14:42]
Adam Crafton
Yeah. As if it's not fixed. Everything at Tottenham winning a trophy last season.
- [14:47]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, but the point isn't whether or not it fixes anything. The point is that it was a fun experience and it's the fun experience you can't replicate with anything else.
- [14:55]
Adam Crafton
Sure. But I would say there's fun experiences in the fact that they beat, you know, last time they're in the Champions League, they beat Bayern Munich and they had PSG to play in a knockout game that they nearly won. I think there can be fun experiences when you are a team. I would have a different answer if it was like, I don't think that.
- [15:14]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Winning a league phase game in the Champions League, even against a good team, is remotely comparable to the experience of winning a trophy.
- [15:21]
Adam Crafton
I think that's probably true, but I'm saying I still think it is for a team that's not really had that many experiences in the Champions League. I don't think that experience should be downplayed either. Like the buzz that fans will get from being in that competition. At the same time, I think the other reason why Champions League qualification from a kind of more boring perspective for Villa is important is they've been kind of really squeezed by psr. The last year or so. And also if you look at the makeup of their squad, you look at some of the key positions you think of, like players like Emi Martinez, who's obviously getting older, everyone's getting older, but particularly Emmy Martinez, ollie Watkins, John McGinn, some of those, like key positions in a team that they're going to have to replenish at a certain point. And I just think financially it would really be good timing for Villa to do that. And they could, by the way, they could do both. You know, it's not impossible for Emery to do both. And I also know, you know, Villa fans were devastated when they lost the FA cup semi final against palace last year as well in the way that they did. So I'm not downplaying at all. I just think that financial imperative, combined with the buzz of being in the Champions League and reaching the quarterfinals, it was more than just like winning the odd game is also a really good thing. It's kind of spoiled for choice.
- [16:48]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Villa fans, let us know in the comments. Champions League qualification or winning the Europa League?
- [16:56]
Adam Crafton
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Agimolere.
- [17:02]
California Lottery Advertiser
Dashing through the store, Dave's looking for a gift, one you can't ignore, but not the socks he picked.
- [17:09]
Adam Crafton
I know, I'm putting them back.
- [17:10]
California Lottery Advertiser
Hey Dave, here's a tip. Put scratchers on your list.
- [17:13]
Adam Crafton
Oh, scratchers.
- [17:14]
Ayo Akimolere
Good idea.
- [17:14]
California Lottery Advertiser
It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.
- [17:18]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Thanks, random singing people.
- [17:19]
California Lottery Advertiser
So be like Davis Holiday and give the gift of play scratchers from the California Lottery. A little play can make your day.
- [17:29]
Adam Crafton
Please play responsibly.
- [17:30]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Must be 18 years or older to.
- [17:31]
Adam Crafton
Purchase play or claim.
- [17:32]
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Adam Crafton
Ooh, that looks fun.
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- [18:56]
Ayo Akimolere
So from the good to the bad. And another defeat for Wolves. Sorry, Wolves fans, we're gonna get into this.
- [19:02]
Adam Crafton
Damsguard his cross. Two on the stretch. Keen Louis Potter. That is it. Home supporters are heading for the exit. It looks as though Brentford have wrapped up what is only a second away win of the season.
- [19:19]
Ayo Akimolere
A 2 nil defeat at home to Brentford on Saturday. That's now 17 games, 0 wins, 2 draws, 15 defeats at 2 points is the joint lowest tally in the first 17 games of a season in the history of England's top four divisions. The next two matches, gents, away to Liverpool and Manchester United. Adam, can we see Wolves actually winning any matches this season?
- [19:44]
Adam Crafton
Well, they may. They might be among the more winnable games this.
- [19:49]
Ayo Akimolere
United, Liverpool, but.
- [19:51]
Adam Crafton
But Wolves was like an interesting story and I think for a while, you know, they would sell and that they would sell high and then they would always find, or George Mendes would always seem to find them new, cheaper talent that they would then play and then they would sell on. But you know, you get to a point, and we saw this with, you know, teams like Southampton previously, where you can't keep selling your best players and presuming that your recruitment team or your super agent will unearth a diamond that is as good. So if you sell Kunya and Neto and Ait Nouri and Matthias Nunes, you know, like if you keep selling all these players then Pedro, Neto, Neto, then you know, you're going to get to a point where Raul Jimenez where that comes unstuck and we're seeing that again and you know, they've not really reinvested in an effective way in the last couple of years. And it's sad, but it must be incredibly depressing at the moment as a Wolves fan, particularly those home games. I mean, it looks pretty toxic. In the game against Manchester United a couple of weeks ago, you had sort of fans protesting before the game, then some leaving before the end of the game. So it's pretty rough. Last season they kind of got away with it with Pereira coming in and kind of putting off a bit of a miracle this time. You Know, you could have any manager in and they wouldn't be doing anything. It's very strange to me that Rob Edwards actually left what was looking quite a good job and possible promotion at Middlesbrough to basically just go and get relegated at Wolves, but that's clearly what he's decided to do.
- [21:26]
Ayo Akimolere
We've just found out that Wolves have a new interim chairman, Nathan Shee, who took over from Jeff Shee. Actually no relation. In fact, is this a little too late, changing the upper echelons of the club?
- [21:38]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, I mean, I think that their decline has been coming for quite a few years now, really. As Adam says, the kind of constant, the constant flow of selling good players and replacing them with ordinary players, it does catch up with you after a while. And, you know, they managed to save themselves last year by going out and getting a top manager. And then when even a top manager can't get anything out of these players because the players aren't good enough, then you're, there's, you don't really have any more levers to pull. Like, I, I, I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly how, how this change of chairman is going to help them. But I guess the big question really is, well, what is the ownership's appetite for spending money and getting them out of this? And secondly, are they in the right place to come back up? Because, I mean, I suppose, like, if you're being really, really generous to Wolves, you'd say, well, Rob Edwards has got a great record in the championship and now they've got exactly the right man to help get them promoted next season, which is a very rosy way of looking at it. But I mean, will this squad stand out in the championship? Not sure. The championship is pretty competitive now. So I think it's, it's kind of unclear really what their, like what their strategy is, or even if there is a strategy at kind of board and ownership level to get Wolves, you know, it's because it's going to get worse before it gets better. But do they have a route to kind of come back and be competitive in sort of two, three, four years time?
- [22:54]
Ayo Akimolere
I think Strand Larsen's also been linked to West Ham as well, and this could be quite tricky if they do get relegated, which is looking very likely, Adam, but could we see a Luton situation here? I know there's a bit more money behind Wolves, but could it actually be a bit of a downward spiral?
- [23:08]
Adam Crafton
It's Strand Larsson just really desperate to play in the championship? Is that why he'd go to Go to West Ham at the moment. But the point Jack makes about, like, the strategy of, you know, you get someone in to bring you back up. Like, we've seen that work with some teams. Burnley seem to be the best at doing that, but it's not easy. You look at what Southampton and Leicester have experienced this season. They've kept some of their players, but not all of their players have actually spent a decent amount of money. Certainly Southampton, and they're still sort of really struggling in mid table. You look at Wrexham and Birmingham, who have spent a hell of a lot of money, and they're currently nowhere near the top. So it's a tough league to kind of take that strategy on. Even Leeds, you know, it took them two years to come back up. So, you know, ultimately. And you feel quite patronizing saying this, but I felt a bit like this when, like when Stoke were in the Premier League, that there are teams that are going to get. There are teams who are in the Premier League who, you know at some point are going to get relegated. Even if they've been there for like, 10, 11 years. You know, we know that Brentford maybe in three or four years might go down, Bournemouth might go down again, Brighton might even go down again at some point. And it's about kind of making sure your club is sufficiently structured to cope with that aberration of a season that you have. And if I was a Wolves fan, I don't think I would have the confidence that they are because to me, they already look like a championship team. And then if you take three or four players out of that who are deemed as viable, maybe the two Brazilian guys in midfield and Strand Larsen, there really isn't much else there, so I'd worry about them quite a lot. And also, they've kind of had this ownership situation where I've kind of been unaffit. I mean, everyone's kind of for sale, right? But at the right price. But they've kind of had this sense of being on the market for quite a long time. And you've had that sense of the owner interest becoming less and less intense over time. And I think that's now visible on the field.
- [25:12]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Jack, is this the worst Premier League team in history? People always look at the Derby county team of a 20078 season, just 11 points. This is looking even worse, in fact.
- [25:23]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
So at the moment, they got, what, two points in 17 games? Which I. I think is. So that their points per game at the moment is 0.117, which ma. Over the course of a 38 league game season maps out to be 4.47 points. And I've gone back through the data and I think, I think that 4.47 points from a 38 league game season is quite bad. It's actually less than half of what Derby county got in 7 8. It's just over a third of what Saints got last season. But look, I don't want to. I don't want to call it too soon, you know, you never know. They might. All it takes is a few. A few win. They could string a few wins together. They might even push towards double figures by the end of the season. But yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty miserable out there. And like any Wolves fan you speak to will be, you know, incredibly clear eyed. I think about, about what's gone wrong and why. I mean, you could even hear it from. I mean, I only watched the highlights of their game against Brentford at the weekend, but like the booing after the Brentford goals, the booing after Strand Larsen missed his penalty at the end after it was saved by Kelleher. Like, I think everybody knows there what a, what a miserable situation they've got themselves into. And like I said, I think it's. They're going to have to, you know, they're going to have to take a lot more pain and get a lot of things right before they can even start to move back in the other direction.
- [26:48]
California Lottery Advertiser
Dashing through the store, Dave's looking for a gift. One you can't ignore. But not the socks he picked.
- [26:55]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I know.
- [26:56]
Adam Crafton
I'm putting them back.
- [26:56]
California Lottery Advertiser
Hey, Dave, here's a tip. Put scratchers on your list.
- [26:59]
Adam Crafton
Oh, scratchers.
- [27:00]
Gab Tech Advertiser
Good idea.
- [27:01]
California Lottery Advertiser
It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.
- [27:04]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Thanks.
- [27:04]
Adam Crafton
Random singing so be like David's holiday.
- [27:08]
California Lottery Advertiser
And give the gift of play scratchers from the California lottery. A little play can make your day.
- [27:16]
Adam Crafton
Please play responsibly.
- [27:17]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Must be 18 years or older to.
- [27:18]
Adam Crafton
Purchase, play or claim.
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- [29:21]
Adam Crafton
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.
- [29:25]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, let's move on to the chaotic event at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium as Spurs lost in front of their own fans for the fifth time this season.
- [29:35]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
And John Brooks blows his whistle and Liverpool have won a dramatic game. Tottenham continue to protest. Richarlison is shown a yellow card. A dramatic game in which Tottenham finished with nine men.
- [29:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, Jack, despite two red cards and yet another home defeat, this time to Wolves, you took some positives from this game, is that right?
- [30:00]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Sort of in the sense that my expectations were so low and actually Tottenham played. I think Tottenham played okay. They nearly got a point, you know, and you know, if they got a point against 10 with nine men against Liverpool, that would be a pretty good result. But because my expectations were so unbelievably low and they did so much better than my expectations, I'm always having to ask myself afterwards, am I judging this performance relative to my expectations or am I judging it like, by itself? Can this performance stand by itself and be seen in the light of day? And like, I don't like. Look, I'm not gonna say they played well because I don't think they did play well, but they did at least stick together and compete and fight till the end and try and find a way through. And you know, there's been quite a few games this season where they haven't done that. They haven't really made an impression on the game at all. So yeah, it's. That's the problem though when you, when you're playing that badly that consistently is that you kind of warp everyone's sense of what is. What a good performance actually is.
- [30:59]
Ayo Akimolere
I don't know whether it's an optical illusion, but when they did go down to 10 men, I thought they played more on the front foot. Jack, is that weird to say?
- [31:07]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
No. I mean initially, no. Immediately after the goal, Tottenham, just after the first Liverpool goal, Tottenham were just defending their own penalty area and the game kind of like slowly became this like walking football. Tottenham defending their own box. Liverpool passing it sideways. It genuinely felt like you were watching like the last extra time in a tournament. Last 16 game between two sides who are both trying to get penalties. I felt like I was at Denmark nil. Switzerland nil from the Euros. But then only, only after, in like the last 20 minutes, Bers actually thought, okay, can't be bothered with this anymore. Let's just get the ball forward. And at the time and when they started doing that and Spence would just be like running down one wing with the ball and they'd be like getting into the box to Richarlison at that point the football actually did become, did become quite good. It became quite well, not, not like good in a sort of quality sense, but like good in a sense that like you could tell that something was happening and it was sort of exciting and the ball was flying around. So yeah, and like it wasn't pretty, it wasn't high quality, but by the end there was at least a bit of a bit of action going on.
- [32:08]
Ayo Akimolere
And what was going on with Xavi Simmons red card legitimate. After looking back at it now, I.
- [32:13]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Think it's a slow mo red card. It's a var red card. I think once that gets var'd, the image of Siemens's raised studs going onto Van Dyke's like ankle Achilles. It's always going to be a red card. I don't think that's a real time red card. I don't think anybody in the stadium when it happened thought was a red card. You know, the referee didn't think it was a red. I think that the slow mo makes it look like a stamp. It wasn't a stamp. I Don't think so. I don't think that Siemens can have any complaints, really, because we, you know, we live in a VAR world. But at the same time, I think it's a bit harsh because I'm, I'm really against var. And I think that this is one of those moments which proves that VAR has effectively changed the laws of the game. Right, because the laws of the game were not written to withstand the kind of technological scrutiny that they now have, which is that it's changed what constitutes serious foul play. It's changed what constitutes a handball. It's changed what offside is too. And we just had to accept that this is just what football is now.
- [33:11]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, well, Adam, we have to talk about Alexander Isak, who went off with what looked like a really horrible injury. David Ornstein's actually reported that it's a potential broken leg. Nick Miller on the briefing asks, is Isak the most cursed record signing ever? It's been a stumbling start, to say the least. And this just compounds that. It makes it a little bit more worse now for him.
- [33:32]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, of course you sort of wish him well. The only thing I'd say on that with regards to, is he the most cursed record signing? I mean, look, yeah, this injury is a, you know, a freak. It looks like an impact injury from the challenge and from the motion, but this is a player who's had injuries. Isaac picking up a series of niggles. I don't think will have been that surprising to Newcastle fans based on his record over the last few years. But clearly this, you know, this is a horrible one because he's just started to score a couple of goals and you just start to think maybe, you know, his position can start to make sense. Equally, I still didn't think he looked kind of that comfortable in a Liverpool shirt, even in, even in the last couple of games where he's been scoring goals. The only thing I would say is from a Liverpool perspective and of course you don't want your record signing with a broken leg and out, but it may make things slightly easier for on a slot in the second half of the season in the sense of, you know, Ekatike is going to play, you know, he's your main striker. Salah comes back in. It just kind of gives that kind of less of a sense of some very big names competing for places and more of a sense of these are our stars, they're going to play. That's it. And I just wonder from a man management perspective whether Arnab Slot's job just becomes A little bit simpler that it gives Liverpool that bit of consistency but obviously horrible at the same time for the individual involved. All I would say on Liverpool was I thought like their last 20 minutes against 10 men and then against nine men. They've had some shocking periods of games this season. I couldn't believe how bad they were. I don't know whether like Tottenham lured them into this sense of just complete comfort and security, but they just couldn't keep the ball. It was incredible. And with nine men they were basically hanging up.
- [35:24]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
If you hadn't watched any Premier League football for the last like 18 months and then you turn that game on and somebody said to you, did you know Liverpool are defending Premier League champions? You never really believed it. Like they seem to have lost like they've still got really good players. And I thought like Viet has some good moments and Ekatike is obviously really, he's obviously a fantastic player. But they don't have any of that kind of. They seem to have lost all that like champions aura that you would expect teams to have. You know, they only won the league like six months ago and yet they don't seem to have that same sort of, of confidence and conviction that you would expect from a team which is so good like or at least was so good so recently.
- [36:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, well before we go, let's talk about this. We spoke about Morgan Rogers earlier staking his claim for England. Dominic Calvert Lewin has scored six in five games for Leeds. Jack, he's putting up some serious numbers here. Is he in for a shout for the World Cup?
- [36:16]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Well, I actually think he might be on the basis that I think England got lots of different types of good attacking players. You know, we spoke earlier about how many tens they've got. They've got really good tens, they've got really good wingers, they've got Harry Kane. But what they don't have is an alternative like old fashioned number nine, somebody who can hit like let's say Kane gets injured or whatever in the world or suspended in the World cup and they just want like an old fashioned nine who they can go along to, who can win headers, who the kind of quicker, smaller players can play off a bit and there is not really such a player like you know, Tony's obviously played a little bit for England the last few years, but it's not really in the picture at the moment. Dominic Solanki has, but he, you know, he hasn't started a game all season. He's had an ankle injury. Danny Welbeck has done fantastically well this year. But you know, maybe like he hasn't played for England for a very, very long time and it just might be that it's like Calvert, Lewin. I'd say if he continues this current form he might be part of that, like part of that conversation along with Tony Welbeck, Solanke and so on. And I think he's done really, really well. Like I, you know it's obvious that he saw he was so good at Everton, wasn't he for about a year or two and then you know, injuries got on top of him a bit. He did. He stopped scoring goals. But he's really elevated leads this in the last few months in a way that I wasn't expecting. And I'm sure that Thomas Tuchel and his team will have taken note.
- [37:38]
Ayo Akimolere
And it is his turnaround inform that has also helped Leeds turn around their form. Adam Many of us had them to go down this season. 41 win over Crystal Palace. Is it too to give praise to Daniel Farker?
- [37:49]
Adam Crafton
No, you know, he's changed the system. They've had an immediate response. I watch quite a lot of leads because my dad's a Leeds fan and I kind of end up therefore always sort of keeping a bit of an eye on their games and my sense of them in the first maybe 10, 15 games of the season have been they've recruited really well from a defensive midfield position goalkeeper and still not completely sold on Perry. But the defense and midfield they've got. They're a good, solid, hard team. Good around set pieces. Pretty honest. They work hard. I just worried that they'd left themselves short from a creative attacking perspective. You know the wingers that they'd come up with were kind of the wingers that they'd gone down with. They'd even lost a couple. They'd lost man of Solomon Jack Harrison had come back from Everton not really doing anything even like Dan James who was their best player in the championship has barely played this season. Nonto's not played that much. And Falke kind of loves playing Brendan Aronson which is kind of always kind of divisive player amongst Leeds fans as well. But this change of system I think works really well because it allows them to have more support closer to Calvert. Lewin I think at some point West Ham will put a little bit of a run together of four to six games given some of the players that they have and the coach that they have. And I think Leeds will need to buy in January maybe just one or two players of Kind of real Premier League quality in that kind of. Whether It's a number 10 or a wide player, someone else that can get goals. Because even on Saturday, and they were really good on Saturday, all four goals were set pieces. So you're not going to do that every game. And you do need different ways to score goals. But, you know, the little run that they've been on, beat Chelsea, beat Crystal palace, drawn against Brentford away and probably should have won that game. And drawn against Liverpool, I mean, that's, that's an amazing points return from those four games that most teams won't get. So they've, they've given themselves a real shot. I just think they need in January to add that little bit up front still. And also, so the other thing with Calvert, Lewin is as good as he's being, you know, that he might get a niggle at some point. You know, that's what his injury record sadly says. So you have to prepare for that.
- [40:14]
Ayo Akimolere
All right, well, as we're near the end of 2025, gents, I'd like to ask you of your footballing hopes or a Christmas footballing gift for 2026. What would it be, Jack?
- [40:25]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Is it too boring to say you're going to win the World Cup?
- [40:29]
Ayo Akimolere
That's way too far ahead. That's way too far ahead.
- [40:32]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Okay. A proper title race, like, we haven't really had one recently. Like Liverpool were too, too far clear last season. I mean, ultimately you have like three teams rather than just two. And with the lead, this is what we never get. But it's the best. Like when the lead repeatedly changes hands. That's what I think the Premier League needs.
- [40:51]
Adam Crafton
I would love a last day where you have both the title. In fact, three things where you have the title. Champions, League, qualification and relegation, all undecided. I think it's been quite a while.
- [41:04]
Ayo Akimolere
Since what, on to the last ever?
- [41:06]
Adam Crafton
I think that would be.
- [41:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh, that'd be nice.
- [41:08]
Adam Crafton
That would be really good. And I think it's possible actually this time around. We basically need West Ham to win a game at some point soon to make that possible, but I think that'd be good. You know, we want jeopardy across the league and I would also really like at least two of the promoted teams, so probably at the moment looks like Leeds and Sunderland to stay up. I think that would be good for the division. It would sort of end this sense that we've had over the last few years of teams come up to come back down.
- [41:34]
Ayo Akimolere
All right, gents, let's leave it there. Adam Jack really appreciate your time. Make sure you check out our review of the season so far dropping on your podcast feed on Wednesday. We'll catch you then.
- [41:46]
Adam Crafton
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabroon, Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aid Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company. Production.
- [42:22]
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- [43:42]
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Paige desorbo they are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts so generous. Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting loungewear.
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Ayo Akimolere
Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh, and you.
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