How much more misery can Man United take?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: How much more misery can Man United take?
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Ayo Akimolere
Guests: Adam Crafton, Oli Kay

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Manchester United’s ongoing struggles under manager Ruben Amorim after another dismal loss at Brentford. The panel analyses United’s alarming statistics, poor performances, management challenges, recruitment failures, and the increasing sense of resignation around Old Trafford. The episode is rich with sharp industry insights, candid assessments, and looks ahead to what might come next for one of football’s most storied clubs.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Manchester United's Alarming Results

Stats & Reaction:

• 17 defeats in 33 league games under Amorim; United have failed to win back-to-back matches in his tenure.
• The team’s away form is dire: only two points from last eight away games.

Oli Kay (02:02):

"I don’t rate anything that they do. I don’t rate their transfer policy, I don’t rate the decision makers, I don’t rate many of the individual players. I don’t rate the system. Big question marks about the coach, but I’m still amazed by how poor they are a lot of the time."

Adam Crafton (03:24):

"I woke up on Saturday in America, Man United were already two nil down against Brentford... there is still something a bit jolting about it, even if we’ve come to expect it."

2. Lack of Consistency and Standards

• United win about one in every four league games (9 out of 33).
• Most wins are narrow; they rarely win convincingly.

Oli Kay (04:56):

"They basically win one game a month... and the standards are incredibly low in terms of what the players expect of themselves and each other as well."

Adam Crafton (05:56):

"They’ve won 17 of their last 57 Premier League games—that’s less than one in three... It gets to a point where it’s not underperforming, it’s just what they are."

3. Comparing Managers: Ten Hag vs. Amorim

• Both managers described as “deeply flawed in different ways.”
• Persistent issues: an exposed midfield and unclear roles for key players like Bruno Fernandes and Casemiro.
• Amorim’s tactical changes are confusing the squad (e.g., Mason Mount at left wingback).

Adam Crafton (07:18):

"I struggle with this idea that there’s no one in the world that would do better at Manchester United at the moment than Erik ten Hag. Based on what we’re watching week in, week out..."

• Ongoing debate whether any coaching setup can find the right midfield balance with Fernandes in the squad.

4. Amorim’s System: Gameplan and Bafflement

• Post-match, Amorim claimed United couldn’t play their game, but there’s confusion about what that actually is.

Oli Kay (10:17):

"If your aim is to get control and possession and try and feel your way into a game, they didn’t do that at any stage really...It strikes me as baffling. There’s so little I can understand what the system is meant to be."

5. Pressure on Amorim and Club Direction

• Underlying numbers (xG, shots) offer faint positives, but results are not improving.
• Financial pressure is mounting: another season out of Europe would be a huge hit.

Adam Crafton (15:15):

"Every time he has some of these bad results, there is an impact. Every place in the table is worth millions of pounds. So I don’t think they’ll let this go without being checked for too much longer."

• Early signs of familiar "manager-in-crisis" cycle restarting.
• No appetite among fans for another quick managerial change.

Oli Kay (18:00):

"United’s fans have never turned on their manager...they were flat [at Brentford]. There’s a real mood of resignation..."

6. The Next Steps: Managerial Options and Timing

• Potentially high-profile coaches (Tuchel, Ancelotti, Pochettino, Nagelsmann) could be free next summer, prompting speculation about whether United should wait for a bigger reset window.

Adam Crafton (19:47):

"It could get so bad they’d have to pull the trigger, or do they try and muddle through as long as they can... and end up with a kind of interim until you have that really good set of options..."

• Would top managers even want the job given recent failures?

Adam Crafton (21:33):

"I do think most coaches out there... would still say yes because of the name, because of what you could be if you’re the person who turns it around..."

7. Scrutiny on Leadership: Ratcliffe & the New Regime

• Criticism over INEOS (Sir Jim Ratcliffe) hiring decisions, with new chief execs and sporting directors also "learning on the job."

Oli Kay (23:17):

"They’ve not made things better, they’ve made things worse...it doesn’t say much for the current lot, does it?"

• Firing the manager could further damage the credibility of the new club hierarchy.

8. The "Stick or Twist" Dilemma

• Firing Amorim would add another hefty compensation package to the tally—over £50 million spent since Ferguson's departure.
• Sacking is less about Amorim’s failings and more about executive embarrassment and sunk costs.
• Flawed squad construction: sacking Amorim would leave a lopsided squad for a new coach.

Adam Crafton (26:18):

"It’s almost like you would need to spend £200 million to fix the last £200 million. And it’s just this cycle we’ve heard forever and ever."

---

Statistical Perspective: Are United Actually Unlucky? (32:05)

• United have taken more shots than any other PL club (92), but have one of the worst conversion rates.
• Defensively, they've allowed relatively few shots but concede goals at an alarming rate.
• Some improvement in performance this season, but from a very low base—marginally better, nowhere near expectations.

Oli Kay (32:40):

"There has been an improvement in the performances this season. But... it’s a really meager improvement and it’s from an incredibly low base. Maybe they’ll finish 11th, 12th this season because they’re improving. It’s nowhere near good enough."

---

Notable New Signings: Do They Offer Hope? (34:42)

• United spent £217 million on new players (fifth highest in PL), but few look transformational; performances of marquee signings have quickly dipped.

Adam Crafton (35:03):

"Kunya just looks frustrated now, which is a shame because he’s a brilliant player. But no one looks like an amazing player for Manchester United. This is just what we’ve seen for so long."

• The case of Kobbie Mainoo: a talented player, but now seemingly unsuited for Amorim’s system, raising questions about both recruitment and coaching.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam Crafton on United’s Identity Crisis (07:18):
  "I think they’re both deeply flawed in different ways... there is no other club in Europe with that level of revenue generation or spend on wages that would come anywhere near to even thinking about that being acceptable."

• Oli Kay on System Confusion (10:58): "There’s so little I can understand what the system is meant to be... But when you say we want to build possession and then you just don’t seem to have any clue how to do that or when to do that, it’s baffling."

• Adam Crafton on Managerial Reluctance (21:33):
  "I don’t think we’re at a stage yet where coaches at Bournemouth and Crystal Palace would be saying, no, let’s put it that way."

• Oli Kay on Ownership & Management (23:17):
  "It was an incredibly low bar for Jim Ratcliffe and for his regime to come in and make things better at Manchester United. They’ve not made things better, they’ve made things worse."

---

The Final Whistle: Other Football Observations (38:18)

Adam Crafton’s 60 Seconds:
Highlights Wrexham’s huge summer spend but shaky start in the Championship, hinting at brewing pressure on much-admired manager Phil Parkinson amid the club’s Hollywood story (38:39).

---

Conclusion

This episode paints a stark picture of Manchester United in “perpetual crisis,” from the top down. The panel’s consensus is grim: better performances are few, optimism is fleeting, and neither the club’s structure nor the squad inspires faith. The episode closes with an uneasy sense that United remain as far from a solution as ever, with tough decisions looming for the new ownership.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:02] – Oli Kay on United’s poor standards and surprise at their decline
• [03:24] – Adam Crafton on the Brentford defeat and United’s terrible away form
• [07:18] – Who is worse: Ten Hag or Amorim?
• [10:58] – Ollie Kay on tactical confusion and lack of possession
• [15:15] – Adam Crafton on financial impact and managerial pressure
• [18:00] – Fan sentiment and resignation among supporters
• [19:47] – Next summer’s managerial options
• [21:33] – Would top coaches even want the job?
• [23:17] – Scrutiny on the INEOS regime and failed appointments
• [26:18] – The dilemma of sticking or twisting with Amorim
• [32:05] – Do the stats offer any hope?
• [34:42] – Impact (or lack thereof) of new signings
• [38:39] – Crafton’s final observation: pressure building at Wrexham

---

For anyone connected to Manchester United—or interested in football club management’s complexities—this episode delivers an unvarnished account of a club fighting its own history, structure, and expectations, with no quick fix in sight.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

The market's uncertain, revenues tight and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving. Go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's Upwork.com post a job for free and get started today.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Did you know adults 60 plus lose more than $60 billion each year to financial exploitation. Greenlight's new Family Shield plan empowers you to monitor your accounts for suspicious activity, protect yourself with up to $1 million identity theft coverage and reassure loved ones that you're safe with location sharing and place alerts. Get peace of mind [e-mail] protect that's greenlight.com protect group health insurance can challenge.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Company budgets with large and unpredictable rate increases.

[Commercial Narrator]

Now a new form of employer coverage called an ICHRA or ichra can help ichras make health plan expenses more predictable and affordable by tapping into a much larger risk pool. That means businesses know what to expect and what to budget. If you're tired of expensive surprises, plan on something predictable. Plan on an ICHRA. Learn more at ambetterhealth.com ICRA.com Foreign welcome.

[Ayo Akimolere]

To the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. It's 17 defeats in 33 games for Ruben Amarim's Manchester United. How much more misery can they really take with us today? We have our Monday usual Adam Crafter. We've also got Oli Kay, who was at the GTECH over the weekend as well. Right? Headline numbers Oli 17 defeats from 33 Premier League games. Are we even at all surprised now when Manchester United lose?

[Oli Kay]

You're not surprised when they lose, but I do seem to fall into the trap of thinking before almost every game. This should be all right today, shouldn't they? You know, you look at, you look at the team sheets and it, it looks okay. I don't think it looks great by any means as you've got the questions about the system, you've got questions about numerous individuals within it, but you think it looks okay. It shouldn't be that hard to, you know, go to some of these ground, get a win. I know Brentford is our awkward opponent, but I still find myself surprised that I don't rate anything that they do. I don't rate their transfer policy, I don't rate the decision makers, I don't rate many of the Individual players. I don't rate the system. Big question marks about the coach, but I'm still amazed by how poor they are a lot of the time. That was the worst performance. Well, worst Premier League performance of the season by some distance. I think it's probably worth saying there have been moderately better performance wise this season, but they are so far from where they need to be and where they should be. So inexplicably, I am still surprised when I see how poor they are because they should. Even with the players, they've got the limitations that you see in the system and in the players. I still feel they should be better than this.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Yeah, Adam, they still haven't won back to back Premier League matches under Amarim. He's been there, what, nearly a year now. What are your thoughts on that?

[Adam Craft]

No, I mean the numbers are terrifying. I mean, it's like two points from their last eight away games. It's incredible in many ways. I woke up on Saturday morning at 7.50am in America. Man United were already two nil down against Brentford. Right. Like there's something quite jolting about that where you just sort of reach out for your phone at the side of the bed, check the score thinking, oh, can't be that bad yet. And then you check. You're like, oh my God. So there is still something a bit jolting about it, even if we've come to expect it. I remember being at the game at Brentford, Brentford a couple of years ago, Ten Hag's second, third game. Was it when they lost 4 0. I think it was like 30 at half time. That was horrendous. But in some ways, actually the game the other day felt bleaker in the sense of. I think that Chelsea game last week had not given the sense of a change, but had given the sense of maybe it could be the start of something. And then for it kind of just to tumble back down to Earth within 20, 25 minutes is pretty bleak. And then when you add in you all this stuff about there's no European football this season, so they're going to have a whole week of training, they'll be ready. How can you start a game at Brentford like that? Then if you've had a whole week to prepare, how can you be so shocked by, you know, the goals they can't see like a ball over the top. How can't you expect that going to Brentford? So it just raised a lot of questions that, you know, I think has probably led many people to feel this sense of loop and inevitability about what's going to happen over the next couple of weeks.

[Oli Kay]

You know the thing where we talk about this lack of back to back wins as if it, it's some kind of remarkable quirk. They've won nine games out of 33. So if you're winning slightly better than one game every four, you're not going to win back to back games. The back to back thing isn't a problem. You could not win back to back games. And I think Arsenal didn't win more than three back to back games last season and they finished second. But it's the fact that they're winning one game in four. They basically win one game a month. I'm looking at it here. One game in February, one game in March, none in April, one in May, one in August, one in September. And it's always this feeling that they beat Chelsea and like, ah, oh, the pressure's off. Oh, we made it through another week or made it through another month. And then they, you know, they have a big game at Brentford the following week and they're 2 nil down within 20 minutes. And it's incredible how low the standards are in terms of the expectations, but also how looks like the standards are incredibly low in terms of what the players expect of themselves and each other as well.

[Adam Craft]

If you go back, I was looking at this before the podcast. If you go back to February 24th across one and a half seasons. Exactly. So you take 38 games, 19 games of the previous season, where obviously 10 HAG was there as well. But a lot of the players overlap. They've won 17 of their last 57 Premier League games. That's less than one in three, as Oli says. But in that tie, I think something that's really interesting is Brighton Villa and Everton and by the way, two of those games were the final days of the season. Are the only current Premier League teams United have beaten by more than one goal in that time. So that shows that even the games that they win tend to be by hook or by crook a little bit as well. You know, there's not that many games they've won in that time where you came away thinking, wow, man United really played well there. And obviously that'll work the other way as well. There'll be games where you unlucky or whatever you draw, but the performance level over almost 60 games there has been consistent. And it gets to a point where it's not underperforming, it's not Man United aren't doing this, that it's Just what they are, who they are, and it's pretty, it's pretty striking.

[Ayo Akimolere]

You've watched 10 HAG's Manchester United, especially when he joined. You've now seen Amram's Manchester United. Adam, who put you more at ease to watch this team? Was there a sense of optimism perhaps when Ten Hag started in comparison to now what we're seeing with Amorim?

[Adam Craft]

I think I might have said on this podcast towards the end of 10 Hag that it's impossible for anyone to do worse. Like, because people kept saying, you know, oh, who's out there that's better at the time. And I just remember thinking about who could be worse. The question is, can you find someone who can make the team not be 14th in the table, right. And win a game in the Europa League, Right. The standard is so bad over such over an 18 month period. I struggle with this idea that there's no one in the world that would do better at Manchester United at the moment than Eric Ten Hag. Based on what we're watching week in, week out, Man United were finishing what, 8th, 9th under 10 hag. I mean, even the fact that Man United have gone into this season or a lot of fans I think, have thought, you know, might be eighth, might be nine night. It's shocking relative to the spend that they have and the wages that they put out. Like there is no other club in Europe with that level of revenue generation or spend on wages that would come anywhere near to even thinking about that being acceptable. And yeah, of course things take time and you have to allow things to transition. To answer your question, I think they're both deeply flawed in different ways. You know, the 10 Hag has clearly lost some of the players by his second season. I think what they probably share in common is the midfield being very exposed, personnel not being strong enough. I think 10 Hag probably never really quite got past the Casemiro problem. It was too open, asking him to do too much. At the time it looked like Kobbie Mainoo might be able to be a player that you could put in there next to Casemiro, perhaps, and that tightens it up a bit. But even when he played at times it would be too open. And maybe it's actually, you know, go back a few years and maybe it is a bit of a Bruno Fernandes problem. Is there actually a midfield combination that allows Fernandes to have the freedom he want while also having a team that's able to compete towards the top of the Premier League table? Maybe that's unfair because he's done so much individually. There's problems all over. Amor too. I mean, like Mason Mount, left wing back thing on Saturday where you're chasing a game late on and he took off. I can't remember which centre back he took off because it feels like he's always taking off a center back at some point in the second half, I can't remember which one it was, but he brought Mason Mount on. I thought, wow, 20 minutes to go or whatever and he's changed the system. He's going to put Luke Shaw at left back and they're going to go 4231 or 4222, whatever. And it was Mason Mount at left wing back. And it's just, I think at that point players are probably thinking, what are we doing here? How is this giving us the best chance of winning the game?

[Ayo Akimolere]

Ollie, after the game, Amarim said post match that, you know, United never got into their rhythm. I mean, this is a team that's had a preseason. And there's also also the argument that obviously maybe he have the team or the personnel to function the way he wants to. But you try telling that to Iriola for Bournemouth, who's lost a whole heap of players last season. You try telling that to, you know, Brighton or even, you know, above Manchester.

[Oli Kay]

United right now, Brentford or Sunderland or whoever. I was fascinated when he made that point about we hadn't been able to play on our own game. We'd fallen into the trap of playing on Brentford's terms and he'd spoken about how the problem had been that they'd not really sort of built up a spell of possession.

[Ayo Akimolere]

We play this game like Brentford wants to play game with long balls, we kick the ball, second balls and we never settle down our game, we never play our game, we never push the opponent.

[Adam Craft]

And then we knew that every time.

[Ayo Akimolere]

They recover the ball, they will make.

[Adam Craft]

A run and they will fight for the ball. We suffer two goals like that, we.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Never settle down into long possessions. Long control of the game were never there.

[Oli Kay]

So we lost. I thought, oh, so that's what they try to do, is it? That's what he wants his team to do because they very rarely do that. So I was always surprised to hear that building a spell of possession was the game plan, really. But also when they kicked off. So they kicked off and it was, you know, you're right in line with it in the press box at Brentford. And they had, I think six or seven players stationed on that left wing ready for when Bayern Deer kicked the ball long forward into that corner so they could all sort of chase it like they were kind of Wimbledon in 1988 or Sheffield United in 1990 or something like that. And it's what all teams are doing at the moment. Well, not all teams, but a lot of teams are this and they're sort of getting these kickoff routines where it's all about punching into the corner and trying to force a throw in. And it looks like you're watching rugby at times, but that long ball from Bayindi, it was headed away by, I think it was Nathan Collins. And suddenly United had all these six or seven players in that corner and they were almost hit on the counterattack straight away for the first, the first 10, 20 seconds of the game because Brentford went down the left and it was as if Brentford had prepared for that and knew that that was going to happen. But my big concern with it was if your aim is to get control and possession and try and feel your way into a game, they didn't do that at any stage really. And if you're punting it long from the kickoff and I admit other teams are doing it as well, what better opportunity is there to sort of build your way into game, get those sort of building blocks of possession? It strikes me as baffling. There's so little I can understand what the system is meant to be, which it just doesn't look like. I don't like the system, but you can understand what it's meant to be. But when you say we want to build possession and then you just don't seem to have any clue how to do that or when to do that, it's baffling.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Well, let's move on because after yet another defeat, just how much pressure is Amarim actually under? We'll get into that next.

[Adam Craft]

This is the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.

[Commercial Narrator]

The market's uncertain, revenues tight and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving. Go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's Upwork.com post a job for free and get started today.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Did you know adults 60 plus lose more than $60 billion each year to financial exploitation? Greenlight's new Family Shield plan empowers you to monitor your for suspicious activity, protect yourself with up to $1 million identity theft coverage and reassure loved ones that you're safe with location sharing and place alerts. Get peace of mind [e-mail] protect that's greenlight.com protect if you're navigating anxiety, depression, relationship challenges, postpartum struggles or something else, you deserve care that meets you where you are. GrowTherapy is designed to help you find a therapist who fits your needs and supports the way you want to feel. They conn you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the US Offering both virtual and in person sessions. You can search by insurance provider, specialty treatment methods and more to find a therapist who works for you. Whatever challenges you're facing, GrowTherapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com acast today to get started. That's growththerapy.com ac acast growtherapy.com acast availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Reuben amarims has overseen 49 games in all competitions. Adam is there any sign of improvement or even progress under Amarin? Because there are some underlining numbers people would draw to and say high xG, moist shot on goals, all that kind of stuff. But the reality is the results are still the results.

[Adam Craft]

Okay, some of the numbers are better, but the Arsenal game aside, I think there's been cause for concern in pretty much every other game, even the Chelsea one last week. I mean they went from looking like they were going to win 60 when they went 2 nil up to looking as though they could implode by the end. So even the inconsistency within games at times is pretty shocking. I think he is under pressure. Much more pressure, I think, than the club would maybe like people to be saying probably at this point if he was to lose against Sunderland next week, a struggle to imagine it can go on much longer than that. When you get to these times as adjourners, you know you're talking to lots of people. You're trying to get a sense of where you think the club is at. From some of the people I'm speaking to, I think the first rumblings of this cycle that we've become so familiar with are starting. Does that mean he's going to get fired immediately? No. Does it mean that there are people starting to think about what might happen next? Of course they are. And they wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't doing that. I mean, you could argue they wouldn't have been doing their job if they weren't doing that six months ago after the Europa League final. Even so, Roon Amarim himself has spoken about at times it not being good enough, the fact that he might walk away, the fact that he might do, I don't know, two months or 20 years. I mean, whichever day you happen to speak to him. So I don't think there's any disguising at this point. You can't deny the results, you can't deny the performances. Yeah, things are a bit better, but not to the extent that makes you think this is a project that's going to get Man United to where they need to be. And there is also a financial imperative here. You know, a year ago or less than a year ago, Jim Rattus talking about the club going bust by Christmas, and then they went and spent a hell of a lot of money in the transfer market. But if they were to go another season without any European qualification whatsoever, that is really impactful for Man United. That is, you know, from a sponsorship point of view, from a ticketing point of view, the matchday revenue that you get, even just not being in the Carabao Cup. Having been knocked out by Grimsby, I'm pretty sure United would have budgeted to get to quarter finals, semi finals of that competition. To be having two or three, okay, you can have all the draws go away. Well, that's unlikely. But to be having two or three home games, you're looking at another 3, 4, 5 million pound that they've not got. So every time he has some of these bad results, there is an impact. Every place in the table is worth millions of pounds. So I don't think they'll let this go without being checked for too much longer.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Yeah, I mean, Ollie, I'm from your. Where you were sitting, especially with the visiting fans, what feeling were you getting off them? Were there any noises anti Amarim or would they just like yet another. Another desert Man United fan?

[Oli Kay]

No, and there's not really been any chance or anything like that against any of the managers Manchester United have had in the last 12 years, all of whom have been through really, really tough times, really bleak, bleak periods where it seemed, and as it transpired, there was no way back. United's fans have never turned on their manager. They've barely turned on their players. I think that's really admirable. Personally, I love the fact that they don't hound the manager and fall down, that you don't know what you're doing. Route that is so kind of lazy. Default option among supporters these days. But I know there's an element of United's fan base, who probably don't go to games, who are livid that the fans have been chanting for Amari all his time and staying loyal when they see no encouragement. What is interesting is that there's been this sort of defiant, we'll back in from the Stretford End chant, bring the glory days again, whatever it is. There was none of that on Saturday. United's fans, who were normally very, very loud, some of the loudest away fans around, they were flat. I think there's a real mood of resignation amongst the fans at the moment, because I don't think anybody wants to be in this position where they're changing manager yet again. I don't think there's much appetite to be entering October, November again and thinking it's yet another season with where we're changing manager so soon. Adam and I both agree that it's very hard at the moment to see a way out of this Emery, whether he's got two more months or two more weeks, whatever. You have to start thinking, what's the contingency plan here? What do they do next? And I just don't think it's an obvious answer. You think, have they now got to go to a coach who plays a back three now? That. That to me would be madness. But I also think flipping to a coach who wants to go to about four isn't great either.

[Adam Craft]

You're right, Oli. What is interesting, and I think this might become significant, is I think there's a lot of managers who are going to become available next summer as things currently stand. So it would be after the World cup, which presents its own issues in terms of, you know, how you would keep that quiet, or do you announce it, and the chaos that can ensue around that. But Tuchel, Ancelotti, Pochettino, Julian, Nagelsmann, they're all managers that become available next summer. Add on top of that, contracts for both Oliver Glasner and De Raiola are up next summer. And that makes me wonder whether Man United, it could get so bad they'd have to pull the trigger, or do they try and muddle through as long as they can with Amerim and end up with a kind of interim until you have that really good set of options available next summer rather than trying to get someone mid season? You know, there's obviously costs involved with that. I think getting someone who's going to do a World cup would be impossible. But equally, you know, you'd be able to buy Oliver Glassner or Iriola. I think there's plenty of people who would say Manchester United should act like a big club and go and get the best person. That makes me wonder whether we get to another stage with United where we end up with an interim. We've been here before. Yeah, we've been down that road before. But just the amount of options that are available next summer just makes me wonder whether that ends up being a possibility on that point.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Those are great names you've put forward. If you were in their shoes right now, do you want to go to Manchester United? I know there's an ego around being a manager and trying to bring this team back to former glory, but, I mean, you can look down the entire line of pretty talented people who it just hasn't worked out for.

[Adam Craft]

Yeah, but I think they would. That's what we see, I think, you know, over. Over the years. I mean, actually I was with, on Friday, name dropping, someone who said no, which was Jurgen Klopp.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Craft]

And that was, you know, on Friday. And he. At the start of the interview, he said to me, you know, who do you support? Who do you support? Or where you. Where are you from in England? So I said, Manchester. And he was like. I said to him, you know, imagine if you'd have come all those years ago. Exactly, Exactly.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Wow. Wow.

[Oli Kay]

Boom.

[Adam Craft]

But it was after David Moy, you know, left that. When he was having those discussions and he had a lot of fun, poking fun at how Manchester United are doing, but. And he was saying, I don't think I'm betraying anything here, was basically, you know, every time you think it might get better, it just sort of goes back again. And it's fascinating, but I do think most coaches out there, the comparison I always use is like Leeds United in the Championship, where they would be run by, at times pretty crazy owners, but decent managers. I think that's the legalistic term. But managers would still say yes. You would still have managers going in because of the name, because of what you could be if you're the person who turns it around in the same way as what Jurgen Klopp became by being the man who turned Liverpool around after all those years at a point where it seemed like they'll never win the league again. So I don't think we're at a stage yet where coaches at Bournemouth and Crystal palace would be saying, no, let's put it that way.

[Ayo Akimolere]

This is a Surgeon Radcliffe appointment, really. At least with his INEOS group At the helm. Ollie, is there a bit of saving face here that actually, you know, something's got to give. We've got to actually stick by this guy because, you know, this was meant to be a. A massive new appointment.

[Oli Kay]

Yeah. But wasn't Dan Ashworth meant to be one of his sort of flagship appointments? And. And Dan Ashworth's last significant act in a few months in that role was to whether it made sense to appoint a back three coach like Amarim mid season. And Ashworth was quickly shown the door. So that's an interesting one in terms of whether Ratcliffe is patient. I think the thing with Ratcliffe is he's appointed all these people. He's appointed Omar Berarda and that was sort of widely hailed as some incredible coup to get him from Manchester City. He appointed Ashworth. That didn't last. He appointed a new coach. He appointed Jason Wilcox technical director, now director of football. All these other appointments low down the chain and he. It reminds me slightly of something Adam said on a podcast probably two, three years ago about United. And he was saying how right, well, they've got Richard Arnold. I knew it. Said Richard Ashcroft. Richard Arnold, the drugs don't work. Richard Arnold was chief executive and learning on the job. You had Solskjaer, who was coach and basically learning on the job. You had John Murta. Deutsche football was learning on the job. They were all doing jobs at Manchester United that were far bigger jobs than they'd done before. And Omar Barrada wasn't the CEO at Manchester City, but he's gone into what everybody regards as a bigger club and he's chief executive and he's running the shop. Ratcliffe himself has had very little success in football and these have seemed to do better since him and Ineos have backed away. Jason Wilcox was academy director at Manchester City City 12 months before he turned up at Manchester United. He went to direction football at Southampton and he's got a good reputation in the game, but I don't think anybody would think based on his work at Southampton, that's the guy you want to be running the show at Manchester United in terms of the whole football operation. There's big question marks about Berarda, big question marks about Wilcox, and inevitably their entire credibility really is pinned on the success or otherwise of a coach who is learning on the job in the Premier League. Obviously, he's had great success in Portugal, but it looks to me like that will go down as a pretty disastrous appointment. And what that says about Ratcliffe's other appointments, big Questions there, on there, like we talked about with managers, I think it was incredibly low bar for Jim Ratcliffe and for his regime to come in and make things better at Manchester United. They've not made things better, they've made things worse. And given that the previous decade really was Ed Woodward and Richard Arnold and people like that, and making making, to my mind, a pretty bad job of it, it doesn't say much for. For the current law, does it?

[Ayo Akimolere]

Yeah. I mean, the weird thing is, Sergio, Miracle, if any of us have also said if. If they need to change things, they'll do it quite quickly. Which brings me to the question, Adam, you know, and by the way, I'm not stating that Amaram's gonna go anytime soon, but do you stick or twist with this guy? Because you've got the October international break coming up. Do you stay with this guy till January, see what happens? Can you afford to do that?

[Adam Craft]

Well, can you afford to not do that? Can you afford to spend the money to fire him? I mean, you would think it might be in the interest long term to take that hit. And, you know, but we've said that so many times now. I mean, it's. It's probably what, over 50 million that United probably spent firing coaches now over, you know, the last few years or so. There used to be that stat about Chelsea, though. It was like, how many. The numbers they'd racked up, firing coaches. I think Oli's right about how tied some of the people above Amarima to his success, about how their credibility is tied to their success. And I do wonder if that meant that this season was going to go one or two ways. It was either going to propel United almost like a rocket ship, because there was this kind of interdependency, or it was going to go really, really badly because everyone looks tied to one another. So maybe that buys him a bit of time. Because really, the most compelling case, the only case I can really see at the moment, short of evidence on the pitch for sticking with Amarim, is the fact they fired other coaches before and they don't want to do it again. So it's less about anything he's actually doing more. The pattern of what has gone before and this feeling of it is embarrassing for the people who hired him to fire him. They would face questions about, what on earth were you doing? Because almost a year before, when Jim Ratcliffe came in, I remember being at this kind of roundtable he did with journalists at the Neos HQ where he said, we will hire a sporting director who will set out the style of football. This was like February, March 2024 and by the end of that year they had someone brought in who was bringing his own style, signing players for his style. I know they say that Kanye and Buimo can play in different systems, ok? But the reality is if someone comes in and plays 4, 2, 3, 1 next week, they don't have enough wingers. They've got rid of Rashford. Garnacho Kunye would probably have to play from the left, not his preferred position. They wouldn't really have a left back because I don't think Dawgu would be able to play in a four. And maybe Shaw probably can't get up and down in the way he could a few years ago, certainly on the evidence of the last few games. So it's almost like you would need to spend 200 million to fix the last 200 million. And it's just this cycle we've heard forever and ever. So if there's anything that buys Ruben Amour in time, I think it is that because there isn't a huge deal of evidence that the players he has are improving. And I know people might not want to re litigate what happened in the summer, but did they get as much money as they could have got through Alejandro Garnacho? Should Marcus Rashford be out on loan? Obviously that's due to a contract that was given before Ineos. But in terms of the money that it's cost, this whole Amarin project, in terms of what could have been brought in, even if you think about they had a record offer from Amazon to do a behind the scenes documentary. Amarim didn't want to do it.

[Oli Kay]

Oh, if only, if only.

[Adam Craft]

Right. Reuben Amarim, understandably, by the way, I don't think this was a misjudgment on his part. He didn't want to do it. That's probably another 10 to 15 million. The club will say in the end it was a joint decision, but it was very much because Reuben Amarim wasn't comfortable with it. And as I say, I can completely understand it. But if you just tot up all these kind of cumulative costs that this project, the cost of firing Hagen, hiring Amrin was like 22, 23 million. And I think all of that breeds a scenario which maybe buys him some time, but it's not really on account of anything he is actually doing now.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Okay, well let's see if we can bring some optimism into this because no European. No, let's. I've got to try, please. Which I doubt you'll actually offer, but anyway, no European football, no Carabao cup, as you've mentioned, Adam. So what are Manchester United playing for this season? Well, we'll get into that next foreign.

[Commercial Narrator]

The market's uncertain, revenues tight and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using upwork to keep work moving. Go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with upwork. Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's up. W-O-R-K.com post a job for free and get started today.

[Adam Craft]

All right, remember, the machine knows if you're lying. First statement. Carvana will give you a real offer on your car. All online.

[Ayo Akimolere]

False.

[Adam Craft]

True. Actually sell your car in minutes. False. That's gotta be true again. Carvana will pick up your car from your door or you can drop it off at one of their car vendors machines.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Sounds too good to be true. So true.

[Commercial Narrator]

Finally caught on.

[Adam Craft]

Nice job. Honesty isn't just their policy, it's their entire model.

[Commercial Narrator]

Sell your car today too, Carvana.

[Adam Craft]

Pickup fees may apply.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every vet visit. Which is why Lemonade Pet Insurance is tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet pack bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it.

[Adam Craft]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with ayawakamurle.

[Ayo Akimolere]

So we've discussed where everything has gone wrong, but there are some stats that provide reason for, I guess, a bit of encouragement. All right, no team has taken more than Manchester United's 92 shots in the Premier League, but only Aston Villa have a worse conversion rate. Only three teams, Newcastle, Arsenal and Fulham, have faced fewer shots than the 56 Manchester United have faced. But only West Ham have had worse shots to goal conceded rate. Ole. Can we say perhaps only just perhaps, that Manchester United might have been unlucky at some points this season?

[Oli Kay]

I think they were unlucky in the opening game. I thought they played all right in that game. Against Arsenal, I thought they were actually better than the scoreline suggested. At Man City, I didn't think that was a 3 0. I thought they were second best, but I thought they were competitive for most of the game. Look, the Grooms game in the Carabao cup was a disaster, but it's only the Brentford game in the Premier League where I think you can say they've been turned terrible or even particularly bad. So I would say there has been an improvement in the performances this season. But what it reminds me of is this time last year where everybody knew 10 Hag needed a drastic improvement, having survived by default by the skin of his teeth in the summer. And you could look at the first couple of performances, and I think they beat Fulham and they beat Southampton, and you think, yes, is there something there? A little bit more of this. And then there were defeats, but by Liverpool and Spurs, where you just thought, no, this is just not going to work. And after six games, they had exactly the same record that they have now. And 10 Hag, they won one, drew one, lost one before he was sacked. So they gave it nine games. And in the midst of those nine games, there was briefly a sense of, oh, is this going to work? And I think that's where they've been this season, where there has been an improvement. Genuinely, there has been an improvement, but it's a really meager improvement and it's from an incredibly low base. We're talking about a team that was bottom six last season looking like a team that might be sort of maybe in the third quarter of the table. Maybe they'll finish 11th, 12th this season because they're improving. It's nowhere near good enough. People get excited by Mburmo's initial contribution, and I think he's been all right. I think he's probably been, by some distance, their brightest attacker, but he's still been great. Has he delict? People say, oh, delict's having a great season. Is he, though? Is he just not having, like, a normal, normal Premier League central defender season, as opposed to what Harry Maguire was doing the other day? It's trying to find positives in diminishing returns. It might get marginally better, but it might. I can't see it getting better enough, if I could put it that way.

[Ayo Akimolere]

What about the players they've brought in? Adam? 217 million pounds spent on new players, fifth highest spenders in the Premier League. What were they brought in for? We've talked about Mburmo, who looked bright, but what about the rest of them. Surely that should give this team a little something. And actually, should we also be having a conversation of have these players also stepped up in this Manchester United squad?

[Adam Craft]

Yeah, I think it's a bit early for, you know, Sesko, as he scored at least over the weekend. And Kunya sort of looked right the first couple of games. I think he started to be enveloped by the Manchester United curse. He just looks frustrated now, which is a shame because he's a brilliant player. But no one looks like an amazing player for Manchester United. This is just what we've seen for, for so long. I mean, it is really incredible the way we see that. And. And it's crazy to think, you know, I saw United play on preseason in New Jersey and Chicago, and the feeling around the team and the club and the journalists on the tour was the mood's better. And it was. The mood was better. People did seem more aligned and it seemed like there might be something. But then you watched them play and you have this kind of thing every week where you're like, you might watch a Reuben Amerin press conference on a Friday and think, God, he spoke well there. That was nice. Said some really interesting things. Then you watch them play 12 hours later and you're like, how is this happening? Based on the feeling that there seems to be, you know, when you listen to the coach, there is that huge discrepancy, I think, in terms of the players. You know, some of them are. I mean, Bruno Fernandes has started missing penalties. It's pretty crazy, right? You know, for him to miss two in a row in both in pretty odd circumstances, the full. And one where you have that weird thing with the referee which should never have impacted him the way it did, but it did. And then, you know, the one on Saturday was at like a four minute delay until it got taken. To be fair, you know, I think there probably was a referee mistake. It should have been a red card for Nathan Collins. You would say, if it's a red card and Fernandez scores the penalty and then it's 2, 2 with 15 minutes to go and Man United go on to win the game. And we sat here talking about Man United had two wins in a row. They've come from two nil down a hard place to go, and there's, you know, something there. Those are the kind of the nips and tuck, nips and tucks, completely wrong. Throws of the narrow margins is the term of the Premier League, right? Like that's what happens. But I think there does seem to be this feeling of, you know, the players are really struggling. Those who are signed are struggling. Those are already there. You know, I do think the Mainoo thing is becoming really strange. We reported towards the end of the window, United were happy to sell him in the summer. And that was just true. They would have taken if an offer had come in. It wasn't to the extent where he was in the bomb squad, but he was essentially for sale. But the offer didn't come. They didn't want to let him go on loan. And you've seen that really in the first few weeks of the season because he can barely get on the pitch. And when he does get on the pitch, you know, I think he gave the ball away, didn't he, for the third goal the other day. He looks like he's struggling. I'm not one of those people that's like, Mainoo must play. But I do find it really weird that this so called one of these best young coaches in Europe can't coach a player of that quality who was starting for England in a Euros final, what, a year and a half ago, to actually turn out in a Manchester United shirt. Why can't he coach him? He's had a year with him now he's got all this time with him in the week. Are we really saying that Kobbie Mainu can't be coached into playing in a 3, 4, 2, 1. And if Amaram is saying that, what does it say about his own coaching ability?

[Ayo Akimolere]

Okay, well, Adam, I'm going to give you the opportunity to cleanse your Manchester United soul right now. Shake it off because it's time for the final whistle. You've got 60 seconds, brother. Let's actually see if we can beat the whistle this time. You're really good at this. And I basically, we want to know what in the world of football has really touched you this week. So your 60 seconds starts now.

[Adam Craft]

I'm not sure it's touched me, but I'm going to do Wrexham, who spent over £33 million in the summer, I think that could go even higher with all the different adults Jordans, and that's only two clubs in the whole of the EFL spent more than that. And after seven games, they are 15th in the championship. And their next five games they have Leicester, who were relegated, then they have Birmingham, who spent, I think, probably even more. And then they have the top two, Middlesbrough and Coventry as well within the next five games. And I wonder whether that very long journey and successful journey that Phil Parkinson's been on, sadly, might be under threat. I know Rob McElhoney and Ryan Reynolds. It was put to me recently. They think he walks on water. Phil Parkinson maybe he does after all he's achieved there. But I think that is a situation to watch in the coming weeks.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Nice stop there. 50 seconds. Pretty good. You had a bit more time. 10 seconds.

[Adam Craft]

Yeah. Could have done more fluff. More fluff.

[Ayo Akimolere]

You should have fluffed as you usually do.

[Adam Craft]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akimolere]

All right gents, let's leave it there. Adam, Ollie, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

[Adam Craft]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jason Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Avi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts.

[Ayo Akimolere]

For free, including our dedicated club shows.

[Adam Craft]

Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is.

[Ayo Akimolere]

An athletic media company Production.

[Adam Craft]

Foreign.

[Oli Kay]

How.

[Adam Craft]

Can you grow your business from idea to industry leader?

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Bring your vision to life with smart business buying tools and technology from Amazon Business.

[Commercial Narrator]

From fast free shipping to in depth buying insights and automated purchase approvals, we.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Deliver everything you need to achieve your goals.

[Adam Craft]

It's not easy to stand out from the crowd.

[Commercial Narrator]

Simplify how you stock up to get ahead.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Go to amazonbusiness.com for support.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Group health plans are limited to a.

[Commercial Narrator]

Single carrier and a few plan options.

[Ayo Akimolere]

But that doesn't fit everyone's needs.

[Commercial Narrator]

Now a new form of employer coverage.

[Ayo Akimolere]

Called an ichra allows employees to choose.

[Commercial Narrator]

Any plan from any carrier. Learn [e-mail] Ichra Imagine a world of.

[Advertiser/Promo Voice]

Extraordinary comfort where bowl and branch bedding wraps you in the softest. Embrace the coziest experience made from the world's finest 100% organic cotton, all so you can sleep better. Start building your fall sanctuary with Bolen Branch's iconic signature sheets made with a buttery, breathable weave that gets softer with every wash. Enjoy 15% off your first set of sheets with free shipping and returns at B O L L& Branch.com with code BUTTERY. See site for details and exclusions.