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- [00:01]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help being.
- [00:10]
Jessica Hawke
Innovative with how to have success and how to formulate that success. That synergy between AI and a business come together. It's like Coach's game plan as well as the player. AI is creating a perfect plan, and it's the business like, hey, we have this imperfect solution. Let's meld them together and see what happens.
- [00:27]
Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers.
- [00:35]
Modelo
If you want to know how to fan the football way, ask the fans with the Modela only they know when to show up for the game and what to bring, and that every win is best celebrated with a model. Modelo the cerveza for football Drink responsibly. Beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL Race the Rudders.
- [00:52]
Captain
Race the sails. Race the sails.
- [00:55]
Cam Jordan
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching, over.
- [00:58]
Captain
Roger, wait.
- [00:59]
Jessica Hawke
Is that an enterprise sales solution?
- [01:03]
LinkedIn
Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today@LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply.
- [01:24]
Captain
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. It's still only June, but Liverpool have already been busy in the transfer market. Liverpool have agreed a deal with Bayer Leverkusen to sign Jeremy Fringpong.
- [01:43]
Captain
Florian Wirtz is a red. What a huge deal for the Premier.
- [01:47]
Ayo Akimolere
League champions coming up. We'll break down Arna Slot's summer rebuild and ask is there more to come. Right, with us today we have our football correspondent David Ornstein and our Liverpool correspondent James Pearce as well. David, let's get straight into this. Milos Kirkz is set to become Liverpool's fourth signing of the summer. I mean, they've been busy, haven't they?
- [02:12]
Captain
They have indeed and this is a signing that they had long pursued. It's not completed just yet. They had some technical bits and bobs to sort out, but as we know, he flew over to the UK from Belgrade to undergo his medical and it's all just being finalized so we can an announcement in due course. As far as we know, he was their top target to strengthen at left back and it will be interesting to see what they do in terms of the other players there, Andy Robertson and Costas Simicas. We know that Robertson was of interest to Atletico Madrid and Sim has also been linked with moves but a deal worth I think around £40 million. And a player who we've all seen flourish since signing for Bournemouth. A signing that was completed by Richard Hughes when he was sporting director at Bournemouth. And it complements their early business really well. It provides good balance to the team. They've got Jeremy Fringpong on the other side and he'll compete with Conor Bradley and whoever else, Joe Gomez for the right back slot. Then of course the jewel in the crown, the apple of their eye is Florian Virt and that piece of business is record breaking done and dusted in time for pre season. Very slick you could say. I was going to say smart but everybody knows that he's a top player and that's no secret. It's more just worth of applause that Liverpool have managed to, to pull off that deal and, and attract a player like Virt to choose them over the likes of Bayern Munich. And there was some interest from Manchester City as well. So that's on top of Mashvilli who was a deal done a year ago in preparation for this summer with Kelleher now going to Brentford. So Liverpool are set really nicely in terms of what the market looks like. They've spent, they've invested but they, they've paid values for all of those players that don't make you turn around and raise an eyebrow or sort of express concern. And this is, you know, not resting on your laurels after winning the Premier League title but actually trying to strengthen and improve in areas they needed to, in areas they wanted to. And there will be further work I'm sure but now it's maybe time to pause and kind of assess the market exactly what they want to do. Some potential movements in and out and take things from there. They are being admired by clubs elsewhere who are looking at them and sort of saying that's best in class. That's how it should be done. Manchester City have done extremely well with their early business as well. It's got to be said they're the two that I think stand out to me and it sort of builds the foundations of potentially another successful season at Anfield.
- [04:45]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure James. Look, it's only a month ago Liverpool lifted the Premier League trophy and I, I guess that David stayed a lot there in terms of, you know, what kind of intent this signals. But you know we were just talking before we started this pod and just looking at the, the caliber of player that Liverpool are bringing in. You talk about freepong, you talk About Kirkes, you talk about obviously Florian Wirt. There's an instinctive kind of idea here that like these are sort of plug and play players and actually fingers crossed, these should be the players that should allow Liverpool to hit the ground running next season.
- [05:15]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it's, it's really exciting and it was, it was kind of maybe one of the complaints that supporters have when Liverpool last won the league five years ago, that they didn't really properly kick on in terms of strengthening off the back of that and maybe didn't do enough to ensure that that was going to be, you know, the start of a really golden era. But I think it was pretty clear back end of the season that they had something special lined up because I remember speaking to Virgil van Dijk in a mixone. I think it was the week after he'd signed his contract extension and he talked about how in those discussions he'd have with the club, he said, I know it's going to be a big summer for us. And then Arna Slot around the same time was talking about possibility of adding new weapons. He said, you know, as good as Liverpool had been and of course they'd blown everyone else away in the title race. He talked about how he still felt too many games were too tight and that there was, there was a level that they could, that he wanted to take them to that they hadn't quite reached at times in matches and then throw into the mix. After the final game of the season, Tom Werner, Liverpool chairman, stopped and spoke to reporters and said we owe it to the fans to ensure that this team is even better next season. And yeah, though all those bold words have kind of been backed up with, with Deeds so far because yeah, it's been a kind of booming statement of intent.
- [06:37]
Ayo Akimolere
James Kirke's potentially following Jeremy Frimpong as a second fullback joining. Is this a signal of a, a new era? Trent's already gone to Real Madrid. The potential that Andy Robertson goes to Atletico Madrid is possible. I mean, are we seeing a bit of a changing of the guard here?
- [06:55]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think it shows kind of the evolution of the team. I think everyone knew when, and certainly this was discussed internally, that when they decided to kind of sit tight last summer and ignore the clamor and the outside noise. When you think of the reaction to them missing out on Zubamendi and not pursuing a plan B and only bringing in Chiesa, there was a lot of kind of discontent and they kind of ignored that noise because it was like. Well, actually for a number of Reasons it makes sense to wait because for a start Slot was incredibly positive about the calibre of squad he was inheriting as as were Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards. They also because there'd been so much change off the pitch they thought well actually there's a lot to be said for continuity on it and of course let's not forget that the Liverpool team that won the league the season just gone the previous year they'd been top with eight games to go. It wasn't like they were miles off it. But despite all that there was also this feeling of this also wasn't a team built to keep on winning that it would need some assistance and strengthening and of course you know Alexander Arnold decided to go to Real Madrid. That left a gaping kind of void in terms of creativity more than anything and I think we've seen them plug that already with you know the Frimpong signing followed by by Wirtz and then of course we're kind of waiting for Andy Robertson's final decision. But if you know if he does decide that he's not going to stay and fight for his place during that last year of his contract then you know I think Kirk has is another one that's going to give them another dimension down that left hand side because you know he really impressed in the games against Liverpool. Season just gone. You know he's, he's, he's dynamic, he's, you know, he's combative. You know I think, I think Liverpool are going to be, you know, an even more exciting team to watch next season.
- [08:41]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah David, I'm just thinking about money. James has pointed it out actually Liverpool have been quiet in the last few windows in fairness but also you think about the decent Champions League run, you think about revenue coming in and also money coming, coming in from winning the Premier League. Are Liverpool fully stocked there? We're going to talk about potential future signings later and also verts. But are Liverpool financially in a good place based on those reasons? Exactly.
- [09:06]
Captain
Well, I might defer to James on the specifics of the financials because there have been losses but that's okay. It's common at most clubs as long as it's within reason and and Liverpool have kept their powder dry in terms of available cash to spend in recent markets. They took a lot of criticism and faced pressure at the time last summer, you know Martin Zubimendi was the main target. They didn't land him and they retained the courage of their convictions that unless the right player was available they wouldn't do anything. They've shown that in the past, historically, like when they went for Virgil van Dijk, it didn't happen in the summer. It then became a possibility in January, executed it then and to devastating effects. Nobody seems to do that better than Liverpool. They make the decisions that they believe are right for the club, whether people agree with that or not. And they stick by it and fair play in that sense. And we did say it at the time and a lot of people didn't like to hear it, but are now starting to appreciate it. To the hierarchy, sort of led by fsg, Michael Edwards as chief executive of football. They installed Richard Hughes as sporting director, David Woodfine as his assistant. Others like Will Spearman, who's so crucial on the data. Julian Ward obviously came back and he's in that group of people as well. They got Barry Hunter on the recruitment side, who has been doing such good work over such a long period of time on a slot fitted into that in terms of his way of thinking and working in like a really seamless way. And it's bearing fruit now. If you look at the outlay, it's significant, but, you know, let's see what Liverpool are looking like at the end of the market because you wouldn't be surprised if if they bring in a lot of money for departures that don't damage the squad. So Jarell Quansah is on his way to Bay Leverkusen for a significant fee with a buyback possibility as well. They even managed to recoup a significant fee for Trent Alexander Arnold, which very few expected when it seemed he would be departing as a free agent. Kelleher money came in from Brentford. Let's see what happens with somebody like Harvey Elliott, who could raise significant funds if he is to depart to the top of the pitch. Darwin Nunez. Liverpool turned down an offer from Saudi Arabia in January for around 70 million euros. That has set the market value in their mind. Napoli are leading the chase for him now. He's their top target. They've established contact with Liverpool to express their interest and I think they're talking at their end about how to proceed with this, what levels they can go to. And Liverpool are sticking to that sort of valuation. If it's met, then I think, you know, there'll be celebrations around Anfield at managing to extract that sort of fee for a player who hasn't played a great deal of football. And even though his numbers are okay, he hasn't quite fulfilled the potential that many expected. It's a move that Darwin Nunes is is thought to be keen on. And there are other suitors for him if for whatever reason that doesn't work out. Luis Diaz they're intent on keeping and using even if he goes into the last two years of his contract and ultimately leaves as a free agent. And there are other areas that they could look to make money from. There's uncertainty with Ibrahima Konate, who's into his last 12 months of contract very soon and there's no news on a new contract there. Liverpool, I'm trying to say here, is sort of balancing the books quite well on the whole. And it wouldn't surprise you, despite potential further outlay and talk of strikers who might come in or, you know, further additions if by the time that market closes on the 1st of September that they still look in good financial shape. And that's the way they've always tried to operate under this ownership. They've aimed for sustainability and again, that's why, you know, they are looked upon by many in the market as being the kind of among the best in class.
- [12:56]
Ayo Akimolere
James, just before we talk about Florian Versed, very quickly we're talking about all these signings that Liverpool are bringing in this summer. Is this serendipitous or was it all part of the plan? Because I'll be honest with you, not many people would have seen Liverpool winning the Premier League last season based on, you know, so many different factors. Do you think this is all part of the plan to get them into this season and actually bolster the ranks?
- [13:18]
David Ornstein
Well, I think, I think there was always the plan internally that this summer would be a lot busier, but I think also exceeding expectations in the way they did and winning the Premier League in the way they did has probably opened up more opportunities than they thought was even possible. I think, I think, I know we're going to come on to talk about that, but I think that's the perfect example of that because when I spoke first, spoke to people at Liverpool about Wirtz, the expectation was, well, of course, you know, we admire him, you know, we'd love to be part of the conversation but, you know, we think he's going to buy Munich. But I think when you achieve what Liverpool achieved last season, and it was interesting listening to Wirtz even talk about it in his, in his kind of introductory interview with the club website, talking about being absolutely blown away by those scenes at Anfield and over a million people on the streets of the city for a parade. I mean, where else in the world are you getting that, you know, that Adds, you know, another element to Liverpool's pulling power. And I think also the fact that we've seen slot inherit, yes, a good squad but take a lot of those players to the next level. I think that is a, is a big, big selling point. And then you add to that the financial side of it which of course, you know, winning the Premier League is massively lucrative. Liverpool were back in the Champions League which and I think generated up to about £100 million as well. You know, David's right. There were losses previously I think for Klopp's last season when of course Liverpool weren't in the Champions League they lost just over 50 million pounds. But the financial landscape for the club now is very, very different. You know, commercially they are really now fulfilling their potential. We've got the new kit deal with Adidas kicking in this summer, you know, a highly lucrative pre season tour of the Far east coming up. So all of that, you know, helps Liverpool, you know, as well as the fact they'd been quiet in the last few windows really kind of flex kind of a financial muscle that it feels like we probably haven't seen from them properly since they had the coutinho money to spend when that was invested in Van Dijk and Alisson.
- [15:23]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. Well, next let's discuss Liverpool's new record signing, Florian Wirtz.
- [15:30]
Captain
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalere.
- [15:37]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help being.
- [15:46]
Jessica Hawke
Innovative with how to have success and how to formulate that success. That synergy between AI and a business come together. It's like coaches game plan as well as the player. AI is creating a perfect plan and it's the business like, hey, we have this imperfect solution. Let's meld them together and see what happens.
- [16:04]
Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers.
- [16:11]
Modelo
If you want to know how to fan the football way, ask the fans with a model. Only they know the perfect volume for the TV and the bar. Most importantly, they know how to celebrate. Ask the fans with the model. Model the cerveza for football. Drink responsibly. Beer imported by Crowning Port Chicago, Illinois.
- [16:27]
Captain
Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.
- [16:31]
Cam Jordan
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [16:33]
Captain
Over.
- [16:34]
Jessica Hawke
Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?
- [16:39]
LinkedIn
Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads you can target the right people by industry job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions app.
- [17:03]
Ayo Akimolere
Vets Florian verts.
- [17:06]
David Ornstein
Pass 1. Pass 2.
- [17:07]
Captain
Vert.
- [17:10]
Ayo Akimolere
This man is a sensation. Well, on Friday, Liverpool finally confirmed the signing of German international Florian Wirtz for a British transfer record of potentially £116 million with £100 million guaranteed. James, we've already flirted around the subject of how pivotal this player is for Liverpool, but I guess what kind of intent does it show that Liverpool are able to prize one of the players best players in the world right now to Anfield?
- [17:36]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think that's why it created such an incredible kind of wave of excitement amongst the fan base that, you know, but I was, I was trying to kind of wrap my brains thinking what was it comparable to? And I think in an attacking signing perspective, I think you probably got to go back to when Liverpool signed Fernando Torres from atletico Madrid in 2007. You know, obviously Liverpool have had some unbelievable attacking players since then. But when you look, when you look at a lot of the players who have gained kind of icon status, obviously Mohamed Salah being the greatest example. You know, there wasn't, you know, there were question marks over him, wouldn't he because of what had happened at Chelsea. You know, Liverpool had pretty much a clear run at Salah when he was at Roma. Same with Sadio Mani at Southampton. You know, you think of Firmino when he came from Hoffenheim. These players traditionally, certainly for much of FSG's ownership, it's been about trying to find the next big thing and then elevating them and developing that player into the world class bracket. But I think the difference with Wirt, so probably, you know, for the first time since Van Dijk and Alisson arrived, it is buying the finished article. Diddy Herman, who watches a lot more Bundesliga football than I do in his job with Sky Germany, said he is the gem of German football. He said we don't have anyone better. So I think that is why it is such a huge statement because you kind of think, well, that just gives Liverpool such a kind of an extra edge. And I think anyone that's watched him play, you just, it's a mouth watering prospect, you know, seeing him in the Premier League next season.
- [19:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, David, let's just break it down and go deep inside the football club and understand that the job of a sporting director, obviously someone like Andrea Berta has come into Arsenal. I just want to get a sense from your perspective the Kind of work someone like Richard Hughes, sporting director at Liverpool, will have to do and how influential he is when it comes to deals like this, getting it over the line. Often we talk about players having conversations with the coaches and managers and maybe they might be the icing on the cake, but the sporting director has to do a lot of that groundwork.
- [19:42]
Captain
I think they're even more important. Of course that's not to underestimate the role of a coach and manager. And it's a case by case basis. They're more or less influential managers, coaches in the transfer process depending on the club and the circumstances, the player and the situation. But the sporting director is, is kind of the constant unless you're at a club where the owner is really heavily involved and, and hands on with the actual deals. And that does happen. Some don't even have sporting directors. But at a club like Liverpool where there is one and they're given great authority in collaboration with the people above them, which is directly Michael Edwards on behalf of the ownership and then in collaboration alongside him or, or sort of below David Woodfine. Richard Hughes will be like an absolutely critical figure in this as he was at Bournemouth. Coming into Liverpool. It was a big step up, it was a new environment and it was a really tough inherited position because Jurgen Klopp was leaving, had to lead the appointment of a new head coach. The three key expiring contracts were not on his watch and he had to deal with them. And largely the early impressions of him in the public would be formed by the success of that managerial appointment and those three contract situations and of course the transfer market. But you know, from early on we were hearing from outside of Liverpool and it's just us relaying our information, understanding journalism that he was held in high regard for the work that he was doing and to not necessarily just do what everybody says in football, which is just spend, spend, spend. Often the test of a sporting director is to be able to say no to things and preserve a club's money and to develop from within and find solutions that are not necessarily just found by jumping into the market. And so if we go to the specifics of say the Wirtz situation, Richard Hughes and his opposite number Simon Rolfs at Bayer Leverkusen were by the end in daily contact extremely respectful, extremely cordial. Don't forget they had been in touch about the Jeremy Frimpong situation. And that served them well for the Wirtz negotiation. It served them well for the Kwansun negotiation. Painstaking hours go into these things and it's not a one person job. It's a collective effort and from the due diligence the data we mentioned earlier somebody like Will Spearman and his team to sort of more boots on the ground eyes of somebody like Barry Hunter and his team. Dave Fallows was previously there, he's now departed and they would have been watching players like Virt for many, many years. So let's not just attribute it to an individual. I think a guaranteed £100 million which is what Liverpool are paying for. Wirt is pretty sound when you're looking at such quality and then it will be about potential add ons up to 16 million on top and and if they get there Liverpool they'll be absolutely delighted because there will be team and individual success over a long period of time. Silverware and it may one day come to be seen as a bargain. And it's similar in all of these other situations. Frimpon was a clause but clearly some work went into attracting to the club even the, you know, the small factors like when Liverpool allowed Bay Leverkusen to train at the AXA on the day after beating them in the Champions League. I don't think they were on the main pitches, I think they were over at the under 23s but they saw the whole facility and caught sight of the main building and players like Frimpong and Wirtz were in awe and really impressed and bowled over and that was one of many factors that attracted them as we understand it. So you know across the board you're juggling so many balls, you're spinning so many plates as a sport director and their quality is, is seen over time, over many years. It was a point made by Eddie Howe at Newcastle. When Dan Ashworth left sort of prematurely for Manchester United he was asked in a news conference, you know what sort of impact you think Dan Ashworth has made. And he said well you don't know because it takes a lot longer to find out because these sporting directors are focusing on the first team depending on their specific role because some have a broader remit than others and Liverpool appear to have a good one. There are many other good ones out there but you've got different styles. So it seems like Andrea Berta who's coming at Arsenal is more focused on on the first team and recruitment. So there's no set way of doing it. However the way you do it needs to be right for the club and the people and at the moment it seems Liverpool are on a decent path.
- [24:19]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah I'm on that from, from a Fenway perspective James It's a lot of spending and it's justifiable to a certain degree. This is also a group that some might say haven't spent enough sometimes or in the other way people say maybe they run the club very sustainably. Does this signal a different type of intent moving forward, this kind of signings, big money signings when they need it the most? Because I'm thinking, you know, Mo Salah won't be there forever. There's going to have to be a couple more big signings coming through Liverpool's doors soon.
- [24:48]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I don't think this signals a change of approach from fsg. I think it just shows where they've managed to build the club up to that they're now able to complete and attract those kind of deals like the Verts one and stick into the same business model because it's not. I think there was, I think some people assumed with like the vert steel that it was like well they've suddenly, you know, the self sustaining business model has gone out the window. It's like that's not the case. You know we've obviously talked before about why they've been able to fund it and obviously the cost will be spread out over, over a number of years. But I just think it shows that they are incredibly serious about winning the Premier League title being the start of a new golden era for Liverpool that they don't, they're not resting on their laurels. They don't see it as just some kind of glorious one off and you know, go back to thinking about maybe qualifying for the top four. They're ambitious, they want to keep on winning and I know that John W. Henry, Mike Gordon, Tom Werner talk about the virtuous circle which basically involves, you know, the more you build up a club, the more you generate from revenues, the more money there is that can be reinvested. And we've seen that, you know, probably the last four or five weeks have been the perfect example of that. When you look at, you know, Liverpool as like a superpower of football really when you look at the scenes at Anfield after the end of the season, you know, everything that's come with that in terms of the commercial benefits, the prize money from winning the Premier League, you know, they're in the middle at the minute of you know, five huge concert dates at Anfield which again generates millions and millions of pounds. You know they had Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney on this, on the, on the pitch at Anfield a couple of weeks ago. You know and this, this all kind of feeds.
- [26:40]
Ayo Akimolere
Not quite Beyonce though, I've got to say. But yeah, I like that.
- [26:42]
Captain
Weren't you there, James?
- [26:44]
David Ornstein
I was, I was there for Dua Lipa last night.
- [26:47]
H
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:48]
Captain
One kiss is all it takes the.
- [26:52]
David Ornstein
But yeah, I mean and that all just adds to it, doesn't it? You know and also you look around there I was at Anfield for that concert last night and you look around and you think as well, you know, the other huge thing from the FSG era is that transformation of Anfield when you think when they bought the club, not far off 15 years ago now and let's not forget when they bought the club, the first game in charge was one of the most miserable Merseyside Derby defeats in Liverpool's history. They were off the bottom of the Premier League on goal difference at the time with Roy Hodgson in char. And you know, and the stadium dilemma was one of the biggest topics in terms of, you know, having to, you know, there was almost a sense of well, if Liverpool are ever going to get back to where they were, they're going to have to leave Anfield, they're going to have to build a new stadium yet they've redeveloped half of that ground. You know, capacity has been lifted, what from 44,000 to 61,000. It is an elite arena where they've, you've managed to keep the history and tradition as well. You know, David just talked there about, about Wirtz and Frimpong gazing in a wonder at the AXA training center. That's another part of the FSG legacy as well. So yeah, I think what we've seen in terms of the outlay in the market so far just underlines where Liverpool are at as a club under fsg. And it's obviously had to be done not through being bankrolled by the riches of a nation state but by being run as a very shrewd business. I think think key to that as well going forward is just go back over a year and the first big part for FSG in terms of shaping the post Klopp era was getting Michael Edwards back. And it's, it's no great surprise that everything else fell into place after that because they trust his judgment, his knowledge and his expertise implicitly, you know, from his first reign as sporting director. And you'd have to say he's not really put a foot wrong since, since he's come back into the fold as FSG CEO of football.
- [28:48]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, let's move on because coming up next we'll Assess what could still be to come for Liverpool.
- [28:54]
Captain
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. acemolara.
- [29:01]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help being.
- [29:10]
Jessica Hawke
Innovative with how to have success and how to formulate that success. That synergy between AI and about business come together. It's like coaches game plan as well as the player. AI is creating a perfect plan and it's the business like hey we have this imperfect solution. Let's meld them together and see what happens.
- [29:27]
Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers.
- [29:35]
Modelo
If you want to know how to fan the football way, ask the fans with the modela only they know when to show up for the game and what to do brain and that every win is best celebrated with a Modelo. Modelo the cerveza for football Drink responsibly. Beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL.
- [29:50]
LinkedIn
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title industry company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started@LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [30:25]
Captain
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akmolera.
- [30:30]
Ayo Akimolere
All right David Liverpool potential potentially aren't done with signings or should we expect more business in that respect I'm, I'm urging to the name Alexander Isak simply because if that happens to happen this transfer window, not that Liverpool have completed the window but that would mean one of the greatest transfer windows for a team of all time.
- [30:54]
Captain
You're not getting ahead of yourself there. I it would be, it would be a really impressive window. However there's a long way to go before that.
- [31:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Always measured David always measured to temper me down a little bit. I'm just excited by it, trust me.
- [31:12]
Captain
Well so of course if and when Darwin Nunes departs which which we expect at some point this summer, it will leave something of a hole but not entirely because he wasn't playing a huge amount of football and Liverpool were coping pretty well. They've also also brought in Florian Viets and so they have a new dynamic. Many possibilities up there whether they play him Centrally he plays wide. Maybe Luis Diaz plays inside. They've got you know your gak pose and. And various other options. Mo Salah is quite a mouth watering prospect. The different things they could do up there. Some. Some great combinations in theory. It doesn't mean they won't sign a striker. I think I refer back to when I said they'll pause now and. And sort of assess the market and how it moves. Let's see what happens in the number elsewhere. You've got Arsenal looking at strengthening there. Chelsea still despite signing Liam De Lap Manchester United and and so on. The situation with Isaac has been spoken about so much and. And we don't want to sort of inflame it at all. Newcastle have no intention of selling him whatsoever. Their plan is to keep him. They would like to renew his contract. There's no sign of a renewal coming at this point but they're in a strong position. They've got three years left on his terms. He's already being paid extremely well. I'm sure they would be prepared to take that higher. He's at the of this project that's Saudi led and very ambitious. They'll be heading back into the Champions League next season which gives him football at the top tier of European competition. And this season just gone. They've qualified for that competition and also won a trophy for the first time in a long time. And he was so crucial to that. He does look to be happy. We never know what happens behind the scenes. I don't know. But all we do know is what we see. And he's always got a smile on his face and he's always excelling when he's fit. If they were to be enticed into trading the money would be huge. We've always heard around £150 million. We don't know that for certain. Maybe it's more maybe it's less but it would be eye watering money no doubt. And why not in the position that Newcastle are. And that's really even to just sort of get a conversation now. We don't know what his representatives are doing. Maybe they're entertaining possibilities. Maybe they're hearing from interested parties. We know about the admiration that has been long standing from Mikel Arteta at Arsenal. We know that Liverpool have admiration for him. Absolutely. And I'm sure others on their list as well. But there's. There's no suggestion of any developments. So we. We can't play it up further than that. There have been rumors and reports regularly. I think it would take some encouragement From Newcastle, from the representatives from both for clubs to really test the water and the resolve of. Of Newcastle. And if that encouragement comes, you can imagine Liverpool trying. It doesn't mean they'll succeed but they've got a lot of work to do at their own place to facilitate, you know, a spend of that level. I would be shocked if any club was able to do that. In terms of his suitors like an Arsenal, a Liverpool and so on without shipping some players out to create the financial space. Not just on the transfer fee but also the salary. You know we've mentioned in passing players like Ekatike will be on lists. Others have said I don't know your Sesco's and your Yokerezes. I don't know they'll be looking at all of the them. There will be more options. There'll probably be some options. We don't know judging by Liverpool's history. And I just think it's one that there is no sort of active movement on that position right now. That's not to say there isn't sort of work going on behind the scenes. We'd be naive to think there wasn't. But nothing is kind of developing in a concrete way and. And that is one of the. The interesting positions that. That we'll have to assess in in these next weeks. And Liverpool put themselves in in a strong place on it because of the work they've done elsewhere in the. Sure they're. They're on good track heading into the campaign.
- [35:07]
Ayo Akimolere
James, if Nunes does leave I'm just looking at Liverpool beating Spurs 51 last season. Luis Diaz took that position often they've played with Jota in that position. Do Liverpool need a striker in that respect? Because they've got players, even wide players that can play in that position and they've managed to do without him for large chunks of the season.
- [35:27]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it's. It's a tricky one because I think. I think do. Do they need. Would they. I don't think. I don't think you'd class kind of replacing Nunes as an absolute necessity because. Because he didn't play a leading role. But I think and I would share the concern. I think a lot of fans would be worried about not having sufficient depth in that department which that's. That's why I think Liverpool would have to go and get a replacement. Now of course there's certain caveats there in terms of you know, well where does he designer slot see Diaz playing more as a false 9 I think. I thought it worked at Times last season, of course he scored that hat trick against Leverkusen as a false 9. It didn't work so well against kind of low blocks with teams sitting deep to try and frustrate Liverpool. I mean Diogo Jota again is a dilemma for Liverpool because Jota, his quality is not in question but he just misses so much football. And so that's an issue there because if Diaz is more of a courses for courses type kind of suits the number nine position for certain games, not for others. If you can't count on Jota's fitness. And then of course there's a bit of a question mark at the minute over Chiesa as well. Is he gonna return to Italy? Of course. Liverpool adamant that Diaz will be staying put. So. So yeah, I think Liverpool would need to, to source a replacement. I suppose there's also a little bit there in terms of where does slot see Vertz fitting in in terms of know the people I've spoken to have said you're predominantly a 10 but you know he could play as kind of a false 9 or on the coming off the left side. So there's a lot of moving parts there. But yeah, I think if Liverpool were to sanction the sale of Nunes, I think you would want that depth to be retained by them. Sourcing a replacement. Definitely.
- [37:20]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. I'm just going to throw a couple of names at you. James, Mark Gahey, someone else has. We've seen links with Liverpool and also Gerald Hato from Ajax as well. What, what are your thoughts on that one?
- [37:30]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think they're certainly two players that Liverpool are interested in. I think you know, Hatto Ajax. We know like we, I think we wrote about him numerous times last season that the attraction there is he certainly fits the profile of what Liverpool have been looking for. You know, I think you only have to look at the kind of young centre backs they've pursued in the last few windows where you know, it was Colwill two years ago when there was a question mark over whether he'd be staying at Chelsea. You know, 12 ago it was Yoro who of course ended up going to Manchester United because he wanted guarantees about playing time and Liverpool very much saw him as a, as a longer term project. And then as David said, you know, Hoisen at Bournemouth who ended up being Real Madrid bound. Liverpool were interested in him. So yeah, Hato certainly ticks those boxes in terms of the profile. I think Regay so much will depend on what palace would want for him because you know it's you Know he's not much older but he is a, he's a few years older. I think he's nearly 25. And also the dynamic would be different, wouldn't it? I think if you're buying a young center half who is almost happy to bide his time a bit. That is different to someone like Gay who especially going with a World cup on the horizon would expect to be first choice, you know and Willie, would he back himself to get enough game time at Liverpool? You know, if he was essentially having to play second fiddle initially to Kanate and, and Van Dijk. But, but yeah, certainly there's no doubt with Quanza moving on to Leverkusen, Liverpool do have to, to. To be active to bring in another center back because you know they, there's no way you could go into the season just with you know, Van Dijk, Kanate, Gomez and then potentially Endo as a kind of makeshift fourth option. That just wouldn't be enough given what the number of games they'll be involved in.
- [39:21]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, super quickly on the Quanza deal, David, is there a buyback option for Liverpool and is that actually quite a smart move if he actually hits the ground run running in the Bundesliga gets more European experience potentially then you bring him back when he's a much more mature, much more interesting defender back to the team he left?
- [39:38]
Captain
Yeah, that was a key element to the negotiation and so the clubs agreed and they still needed to finalize that buyback clause. And I think it was sort of critical to it getting over the line. Maybe it still is. I don't know exactly where that's up to. It was sort of outstanding somewhat at the time that we all reported that the clubs are in agreement. And yeah, it would be, it would be shrewd. It would be what the likes of Manchester City often do, buyback or sell on clauses and that sort of thing. It gives Liverpool an element of control over the situation and the future. But of course it would need the player to agree and in many cases the player doesn't want to go back to the club he was at before. They want to play elsewhere and we don't know the intricacies of it all. It's not just the headline of buyback clause. There's often sort of circumstances and caveats within it about exactly how and what would make it possible. So without knowing the ins and outs we can't talk about it with total certainty. But yeah, it's a part of the deal and it's another, in theory it's another clever move by Liverpool but the whole deal it appears to be good for all parties. Liverpool the player who really needs to go out and have regular senior football now as club and international ambitions and young players more than ever are not wanting to hang around and be bit part players. And Leverkusen get themselves a good central defender in a position they've been prioritizing this summer. So yeah win, win yeah another player.
- [41:10]
Ayo Akimolere
Very quickly before we wrap this up. James who falls into that category. Harvey Elliott. So much had been made even as far as a couple of seasons ago as to what his future, where his future lies at Liverpool. Where do we see it? Because if he were to leave that would be a massive loss to for the club.
- [41:25]
David Ornstein
Yeah it would be. He's certainly not a player that Liverpool are looking to move on. I think, I think it was something that slot touched upon at the back end of the season when he said he knew there were players on the fringes who you know frustrated at a lack of game time and he said there's obviously decisions to be made there about are they willing to, to fight and, and go again and try and ensure they play a bigger part in, in 25, 26 and you know clearly Quandary Panza has decided that he wants to move on Elliott we're waiting to see. I think the thing with Elliott which I think is intriguing is who is going to be able to pay and willing to pay what Liverpool would want for him because he's incredibly gifted. He's 22 years of age. He's already played nearly 150 games for Liverpool. You know I think he's a 50 million pound player. When you look at some of the figures banded around and of course if you're looking for that kind of fee to think about selling him then the pool of possible suitors shrinks considerably. So yeah I think some of the noises coming out of you know some of the interviews he's done at the under 21 Euros suggest that he's certainly you know pondering things and the idea of cutting his tires of course with a club he supported since he was a really young kid.
- [42:43]
H
You know I don't really want to be wasting years of my career because it's a short career. You don't know what's going to happen and you know touch with it don't but like injuries and things and you know it could, it could shorten it. So I think it's a situation that as I've said before I need to reflect. I need to see if you know I'm content in doing what I'm doing and how can I improve, you know, as a player? Because that's the most important thing. That's the main thing really. I just want to improve and be the best possible version of myself and the best player I can be. And if that's to go somewhere else then, you know, it's a, it's a decision that I'm going to have to make and you know, I just need to see what happens.
- [43:24]
David Ornstein
I know it hurt him last season not playing more. I think he only made six starts in all competitions. Didn't, didn't start a Premier League game at all until after the title had been won. But he was also unfortunate because he, you know, he broke a bone in his foot early on in the season which really, you know, set him back and he was playing catch up. And of course because Liverpool had a lot less injuries in Slot's first season in that midfield function function so effectively, you know, with that, you know, the trio really of, you know, Zaboslane, McAllister and Gravenberg of course, you know, you know, an absolute revelation as a holding midfielder and then Curtis Jones as the fourth option. You know, sadly Harvey was, was left on the fringes.
- [44:02]
Ayo Akimolere
50 million for Harvey Elliott. I mean Dube went to PSG for around 42. Are you rating about that level, James? Real talk?
- [44:09]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean absolute minimum, minimum of 40. But I think, I think Liverpool would be looking at 50 million for him. Whether someone would be willing to pay that, I don't, I don't know. But you know, he's 22 years of age, nearly 150 games for Liverpool. He's been part of two, two title winning teams. So yeah, and, and I think obviously Liverpool are in, sit in a reasonably strong position in terms of the time he's got left on his contract. So yeah, the, and of course they don't want to sell. That's the other thing. I think it would be different if they were actively looking to, to kind of move them.
- [44:41]
Ayo Akimolere
All right gents, let's end it there. James, David, thank you so much for your time and also thank you guys for listening as well. We'll be back with more on Friday with the latest installment of our summer series, the Transfers that Shook the World with our focus this week on who else but Robin Van Persie?
- [44:58]
Captain
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