How Real Madrid descended into violence and chaos

Summary

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The Athletic FC Podcast: How Real Madrid Descended Into Violence and Chaos

Date: May 11, 2026
Host: Ayo Akimwilere
Guests: Guillermo Ray (Real Madrid correspondent), Thomas Hill, Paul Balus (Barcelona correspondent)

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Overview

This episode delves deep into Real Madrid's stunning collapse—on and off the pitch—culminating in their latest defeat to Barcelona, which handed Barca the league title. The show investigates the origins and implications of internal fights within Madrid’s squad, the fallout of a trophyless season, and the sensational prospect of a Jose Mourinho return. The latter part focuses on Barcelona’s jubilation, Hansi Flick’s management, the Marcus Rashford dilemma, and financial realities at the Camp Nou.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Real Madrid Hit New Lows After El Clásico Defeat (01:26–04:07)

• Barcelona crowned La Liga champions at the Camp Nou after beating Real Madrid 2-0—a historic first (01:26–02:20).
• The defeat was "sad but predictable," according to Guillermo Ray, due to Madrid being 11 points adrift before the match (02:32).
  • Quote: "It has been a sad day for Real Madrid... But at the same time... it was predictable." — Guillermo Ray (02:32)
• Lack of fight from Real Madrid, with missed opportunities and little difference from their last Clásico defeat (03:16–04:07).

2. Dressing Room Violence and Breakdown (04:07–07:50)

• Tensions flared between midfielders Fede Valverde and Aurélien Tchouaméni, culminating in an altercation that left Valverde with a head injury and bleeding—“a sad, sad spectacle” (04:07–05:50).

  • Quote: "Fede Balverde got hit on his head with blood, with a sad, sad spectacle, ...a sad show inside the dressing room." — Guillermo Ray (05:28)

• Not just isolated—other incidents involved Antonio Rüdiger and Alvaro Carreras, and Kylian Mbappé and staff.

• Lack of titles sparking introspection and finger-pointing; social media swirled with rumors and criticism.

• Thomas Hill: These incidents are unprecedented in the modern Madrid dressing room, which not long ago was considered harmonious (06:38).

  • Quote: "How do you countenance for that at a top team to have a clash like that?... Two years ago we were talking about them winning their record extending 15th Champions League..." — Thomas Hill (06:38)

3. Mbappé: Leader or Loner? (07:50–11:16)

• Kylian Mbappé criticized for holidaying rather than joining the team after the season unravelled (07:50–10:13).
  • Quote: "He has acted as an individual, not as a member of the group... he will have to regain the trust from some of his teammates and also the trust from ...staff and executives." — Guillermo Ray (09:09)
• Statistical output not in question (40+ goals in 40+ games), but on-pitch chemistry—especially with Vinicius Jr.—is lacking (10:13–11:16).
• The “galáctico” model’s fit in the modern squad is questioned.

4. Sanctions and Possible Sales (11:16–12:54)

• Both Valverde and Tchouaméni fined historic sums for their fight, but the club isn’t looking to sell either yet; however, a summer overhaul is expected (11:16–12:54).

  • Quote: "There hasn't been half a million fine for any player in Real Madrid's history and it's quite significant." — Guillermo Ray (12:30)

5. Mourinho's Shock Return? (15:48–23:17)

• David Ornstein & Mario Cortegana report Real Madrid are in talks with Jose Mourinho over a dramatic coaching return (15:48–19:45).
  • Florentino Pérez is driving the talks—reflects leadership vacuum and a craving for authority (16:22–17:34).
  • Mourinho’s first spell: great football, fractious dressing room, but questions over whether the current (diminished) version can unify or simply stoke further fires (17:34–19:45).
  • Quote: "I don't think he's won a Champions League knockout stage game for years. It's clearly not the same version of Mourinho that Pérez was getting the first time around." — Thomas Hill (18:38)
  • Yet, Madrid’s logic often runs counter to common football wisdom—nostalgia and institutional culture may prove decisive.
    • Quote: "If we think as Florentino, the most logic decision will be to appoint Mourinho right now. And if you think about ... squad planning, it's also logical because Real Madrid have been signing players ... for a style more or less based on Mourinho's idea." — Guillermo Ray (20:54)
  • Uncertainty remains: Is Mourinho a solution or another accelerant for chaos?

6. Can Real Madrid Bounce Back? (23:03–25:00)

• Despite the chaos, both hosts and correspondents note that “Real Madrid and common sense rarely go together” (22:13), but RJM's capacity for resurrection, especially in Europe, is not to be underestimated.

• Potential for Mourinho to harness the promising but underperforming youth, and to shake things up as only he can.

  • Quote: "If we need changes, maybe we need a Mourinho again. That's... logical in the Real Madrid executive's mind." — Guillermo Ray (24:41)

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Barcelona Segment: Joy, Flick's Triumph & Rashford Dilemma

7. Barcelona Jubilant After Title Win (27:23–29:08)

• Citywide celebrations—players and president Joan Laporta partying with fans, reflecting relief and joy (27:23–28:31).
• Quote: "Joan Laporta in a nightclub... singing Barca songs at the DJ set and just smoking a cigar." — Paul Balus (28:13)

8. Hansi Flick’s Subtle Revolution (29:08–32:25)

• Flick’s management praised for maximizing limited resources, trusting La Masia youth, fostering club unity (29:08–30:33).
  • Players identify with the club; harmonious atmosphere compared to Madrid’s chaos.
• Flick as “father figure” with authority and empathy—has earned players’ faith.
  • Quote: "He's managed to do something... most impressive... It's a generation that is so easy to support, it's so easy to cheer for them." — Paul Balus (31:56)

9. Marcus Rashford’s Future Uncertain (32:25–37:41)

• Barca have a €30M purchase option but are wary of high wages and limited long-term upside given Rashford’s age (32:47–34:47).
• Club may prioritize younger talent—debate ongoing, no decision made, but sentiment leans towards investing in a player with greater upward potential.
  • Quote: "There's people at Barca that... would prefer to invest in a younger profile for the long term." — Paul Balus (34:25)
• Despite Rashford's strong adaptation and output, "he will be fondly remembered" even if he leaves (35:40).

10. Team Cohesion & Philosophy (35:40–37:41)

• Rashford has delivered, but not an ideal tactical fit in Flick’s high-press system (35:40–36:50).
• Barca are focused on players who fit both the club's tactical ethos and long-term plans.

11. Flick’s Human Touch (37:41–39:27)

• Flick coached through grief (his father’s death hours before the title match), earning respect for his commitment and connection to Barca’s tight-knit culture.
  • Quote: "There’s a sense of family and closeness... he’s found in Barcelona a club... that works inside as a small family." — Paul Balus (38:42)
• The club’s Mediterranean, familial approach contrasts Madrid’s institutional style.

12. Barca’s Ongoing Financial Tightrope (40:53–42:22)

• Salary cap issues and registration limits mean every transfer is scrutinized beyond just the fee; sales (like Ansu Fati) are likely this summer (41:00).
  • Quote: "It's going to take a bit of negotiating... scrappy negotiations. So it's going to be one of those summers again." — Paul Balus (41:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Real Madrid’s Chaos:
  "The feeling that it has never happened, something similar at Valdebebas... or at least it's difficult to remember anything like that in the last few years." — Guillermo Ray (05:43)

• On Mourinho:
  "Is the answer to a really tense dressing room to bring in a manager who seems to have brought more tension to the dressing rooms he’s been in? I'm not sure, but... I won't count him out just yet." — Thomas Hill (22:55)

• On Barcelona’s Joy:
  "It's not the best Barca side we've ever seen, but I have not seen many generations that have moved the crowd in the way that this team has done." — Paul Balus (31:38)

• On Club Culture Difference:
  "In the Spanish capital, it's probably, you know, more of a... dysfunctional family that you don't really want to hang out with." — Thomas Hill (40:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:26 – Real Madrid’s defeat and the aftermath
• 04:07 – Infighting: The Valverde-Tchouaméni brawl
• 07:50 – Mbappé criticized for perceived lack of team spirit
• 11:16 – Disciplinary sanctions and possible transfers
• 15:48 – Mourinho to Real Madrid?
• 27:23 – Barca’s celebrations and mood in Catalonia
• 29:08 – Hansi Flick’s clever management
• 32:25 – Rashford’s buyout clause and Barca’s summer plans
• 37:41 – Flick’s personal loss and club culture
• 40:53 – Barca’s finances: the ongoing struggle

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Conclusion

This episode gives an authoritative, inside view of one of the most dramatic weeks in recent Spanish football—where Real Madrid’s internal implosion contrasted sharply with FC Barcelona’s unity and title celebrations. As the summer approaches, the two giants are set for decisive transfer window battles, internal reckonings, and, perhaps for Madrid, another reunion with the most polarizing coach of the modern era.

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Transcript

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[Ayo Akimwilere]

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[Ayo Akimwilere]

The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwilere. After a week of chaos at Real Madrid involving infighting, things got even worse. Defeat at camp now meant Barcelona were crowned La Liga champions once again. So how has Real Madrid's season fallen apart? In with us for this one, and so much to get into. On today's podcast, we've got our Real Madrid correspondent, Guillermo Ray. Also got Thomas Hill, Lopez Manero as well. So we have to start with Real Madrid's two nil defeat on Sunday. Barcelona now retained their La Liga title, their third in the last four years.

[Paul Balus]

Run is from Olmo, who leaves it for Ferran. Oh, it's magic from football club Barcelona. Breathtaking football. It looks like it could be a long evening for the visitors.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, gmo, this was quite a monumental win for Barcelona. The first time in Barcelona's history they have won La Liga at El Clasico. But how bad a defeat was this for Real Madrid?

[Guillermo Ray]

Well, it has been a sad day for Real Madrid, that's true. But at the same time, I think that it was predictable. It has been a tough season for Alvaro Arbeloas and before for Xavier Alonso's squad. They were 11 points behind before Diesel Clasico, so it was something likely that it could even before El Clasico. And it was. It was sad. But at the same time as it was predictable, it wasn't so shocking.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Thomas now 14 points behind Barca. And we'll talk about what's been going on behind the scenes in just a second. But, you know, two nil at the camp now, especially when you're trying to salvage something from the season. Are you surprised by how little fight we saw from Real Madrid?

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah, I see what you did there, IO mentioning the. The fight, because obviously I'm sure we're going to get into the various altercations that have been happening at Real Madrid in the past couple of weeks. But no, I think I agree with Guillermo. Really. I don't think there was much of a surprise in, in Real Madrid looking that short on confidence given, given the events leading up to the Clasico, maybe you could have expected a bit more from Gonzalo Garcia. There was a, you know, a great chance that he had. There's another great chance with which Jude Bellingham played across the face of golf of Vinicius, which, which Eric Garcia cuts out. But really it was. It was not much of a change at all from, from the last Classico, the Super Coppa, to defeat in January. At least in the Super Copper defeat which eventually kind of led to Xabi Alonso being sacked there. Real Madrid did seem to be in it a bit more. They. They only lost by. By a single goal in the end. But yeah, really, this was. This was all very predictable.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah. I mean, in the lead up to the game across the Athletic with Democ Corrigan, Mario Cortegana and also David Ornstein. You reported that Temp has fled between two players behind the scenes, Federico Balberi and also Aurelien. Look, this is something that's garnered the social media in so many ways and I want to hear it from your perspective because there've been so many stories in so many different iterations. Exactly what went on in the background with those two players?

[Guillermo Ray]

Well, first of all, the tension was arising from the start of the week. We reported about other incidents, like incidents between Antonio Rudiger and Alvaro Carreras, between Kylian Mbappe and a staff member of Alvaro Veloas.

[Paul Balus]

Yeah.

[Guillermo Ray]

As there are no titles in place and as the players are thinking on their careers, on their future and there were Doubts about almost everything. It can happen sometimes inside the dressing room that there are, you know, differences between squad members. But after an incident that happened on Wednesday, as we reported, between Valverde and Tchouameni, it wasn't like a clear fight, but it was an incident after that. On Thursday, there was another incident between the same players before the training session. As we reported on our inside piece. Aurelie and Swamini tried to clear things with Valverde. Didn't work out during the training session there was tension as well. Some ugly tackles, let's say that. And after the training session there was like the, the big incident between them. And because of all of that, Fede Balverde got hit on his head with blood, with a sad, sad spectacle, a sad show inside the dressing room and with the feeling that it has never happened. Something similar at Valde Webba Santa Real Madrid training complex, or at least it's difficult to remember anything like that in the last few years.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, I must say Tchouameni did post on his social media and he expressed apologies for his actions as well. Look, Thomas, you look at what this season looks like for Real Madrid in terms of finishing it trophyless, and it's exactly what's happened. But then you look at the chaos behind the scenes. I mean, this isn't particularly great preparation as you're heading into a Clasico, is it?

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah, I think David Ancelotti, Carlo Ancelotti's former assistant at Real Madrid, now an assistant coach for the Brazil national team, Premier Sports coverage of it, he called it not ideal preparation, which I think was, was putting it lightly because how do you countenance for that at a top team to have a clash like that? I think Arbolo kind of tried to play it down on, in his press conference on, on Saturday, which Guillermo was at, talked about how a. How a teammate had previously taken a, a golf club to another teammate. It's not a great comparison to be making. I don't think anything like that should, should really be happening, Even if in these elite dressing rooms you want a little bit of competitiveness between players. And it's all such a surprise. I think you could say it's a surprise at Madrid, given two years ago we were talking about them winning their record extending 15th Champions League. We were writing about how sources around the dressing room were calling it one of the best teams they've been part of in terms of dressing room harmony for years. So what's happened since then? Mbappe's come in, key players, you know, legendary Players like Kroos, Nacho, Lucas, Vasquez have left. Maybe there's a lack of leadership as well, but it still doesn't explain to me that real deterioration in. In the feeling behind the scenes.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, Guillermo, add to this. I mean, Kylian Mbappe seen on holiday with his partner when people potentially think he should be with the team at such a low point. I mean, can you just try and explain and take us behind the scenes as to why these frustrations might be? Is it lack of discipline or is it just a disappointment that the season hasn't gone the way it it's supposed to for Real Madrid?

[Guillermo Ray]

Well, first of all, it's about titles here at Madrid. I think that things can happen, but if you win, nobody thinks about problems, about incidents or about the relationship between the players. And they were defeated by Bayern Munich a few weeks ago. I think that the season was over and the problems arise. And I think it's about lack of commitment since then, lack of connection between the teammates. Now it's clearer than ever. And with Kylian Mbappe's case, especially because he's a leader, he's the highest paid in the squad, everyone knows that. And he has acted as an individual, not as a member of the group. And that's why there were criticisms around his figure or about him inside the club. I think right now the situation is difficult for him because he will have to regain the trust from some of his teammates and also the trust from some of the staff and executives. I think that it was a difficult moment for the club, and when things are difficult, you have to step up. And he has done the contrary, really. I think he has been thinking for a while on the World Cup. It's true that it's an important event. He will be a leader also for France in the tournament. And everyone is right now at Real Madrid, let's be clear thinking on the World cup, because they don't have to fight for any more titles with the club. But at the same time, there are other players, I think, who have acted in a different way. Like, for example, Vinicius Jr, who has been involved in almost every important game this season. And I think this comparison, which is always tricky and difficult because we don't have 100% of the information, but this comparison is clearly something that at Valley Bepas they're thinking about, and that makes right now difficult. The environment for Kylian Mbappe and the vision that some of his teammates have about him. Yeah, yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

I mean, the Kylian Mbappe thing's really fascinating. Thomas over 40 goals this season in over 40 appearances. The numbers are there. But there is quite a stark difference between how Real Madrid play when he's not in his squad to when he is in the squad. Do you think that's part of some of the criticism he's facing fundamentally? Not that he's not a good goal scorer, but the team cohesion when he plays is so different.

[Thomas Hill]

No, I think you're right. IO I think tactically, we've been saying this for a while, haven't we, on some of these pods as well, but the fit between him and Vinicius Jr. On the left has never really properly gelled. Then you've got the question of whether those four star attacking players, those two, plus Jude Bellingham and Rodrygo, can all play together in the same team while still maintaining balance. And I think we've. We've yet to find that. I think, you know, Arboloa is not as good a coach as Xabi Alonso, and Xabi Alonso struggled with that when he was in charge. So I don't really see how the next coach is going to find a way around that. Even Carlo Ancelotti struggled with that as well. So that's a big. That's a big question this summer, what you do with that, with that situation.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah. We'll talk about the next coach in just a second, Thomas. But before we go any further, a key. What's going to happen with Valverde and Tchouameni right now? Sanctions. I see they've been fined, but I mean, certain players, Tchameni in particular, have been linked away from Real Madrid as well, haven't they?

[Guillermo Ray]

Yeah, it's true. They are highly valued players, both of them, really. I don't think that before this incident, we as journalists who cover Real Madrid on a daily basis, were thinking on Valverde or so many as potential sales this summer, to be honest. Let's see after this incident, because it's obvious that the atmosphere has changed around the team because of that and they are responsible. But at the same time, what we have been hearing is that there will be and there have been financial sanctions, but the club wasn't thinking on a Sporting. Tchouameni played El Clasico and Valverde wasn't involved because of his injury on his head. Who will maintain him or keep him out for two weeks maximum? So I don't think that there will be more punishment from the club. It's already historic, I'd say, because there hasn't been half a million fine for any player in Real Madrid's history and it's quite significant. But let's see during the season because obviously there are changes that the club is considering and as we reported here at the Athletic, the club basically is thinking on some sales to, you know, two or four other investments.

[Thomas Hill]

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[Ayo Akimwilere]

Real Madrid season has fallen apart. As we've mentioned, they've now gone two season without a major trophy for the first time since the 2009 and 2010 season before Jose Mourinho was hired. And that's really relevant because we're going to talk about him right now because last week David Ornstein and Mario Cortegana reported Real Madrid are in talks over the possibility of Jose Mourinho returning as their next head coach. This is something we've spoken about on the podcast. Guillermo, what is the latest on this and who on earth at the club is leading these plans?

[Guillermo Ray]

Well, first of all, I think that the latest we report it was basically that the club was in talks with Mourinho's camp and is I think where things stand right now because Jose Mourinho is set to finish his season with Benfica and as far as I'm concerned, I think that they are, they are trying to finish as best as they can. They want to qualify for the Champions League and they are focused on that. But the reality is that since my colleagues replaced about Florentino leading this race to sign Mourinho back, I think that the atmosphere has changed here in Spain. I think everyone is talking about Mourinho right now and it's pretty normal because we have been speaking for 10 minutes about the incidents, about the bad atmosphere, about the bad blood inside the dressing room. I think the Real Madrid fans are looking for a leader, really and probably a coach like Mourinho with his personality. I don't know if he will become a leader, but he will be a head coach with some authority, which probably now or no one is thinking that it could be damaging at this point. Yeah, yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Thomas, you look Jose Mourinho, over the years we've seen how he can often lead through player psychology, let's put it quite mildly. But also we know he's a fiery character. And we know there have been incidents recently concerning particular Real Madrid players as well. Now we talk about leaders, but is he the guy to kind of stoke these fires already in the changing room based on his reputation?

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah, it really does seem like a case of fighting fire with fire, as Guillermo says there. I guess there's the thought that things can't get any worse when it comes to dressing room harmony. But if you look back to, to that time that Mourinho had at Madrid, those three years, it was so fractious. I mean, he did create a great team. That has to be said. This record 100 points total, which was then equaled by Barca in 2011-12, that was a really good team. The stuff involving Casillas, Arboloa, Cassias, kind of jokingly last week told this event that Xabi Alonso would be his pick for the next Real Madrid head coach, which I think says it all really about how the relationship between those two deteriorated during Mourinho's time in charge. I don't know if he can be the solution, really. We're also looking at a diminished version of Mourinho. I thought Ole Kay's column on this was really good, saying how, you know, I don't think he's won a Champions League knockout, knockout stage game for years. Right. And it's clearly not the same version of Mourinho that Perez was getting the first time around. But he trusts his, the managers he's, he's gone back to before Zidane, Ancelotti were both second spell appointments. Other managers like Lopetegu and Benitez have had a history at the club before and clearly that seems to, to really matter to, to Perez and we know that Mourinho remains a trusted figure of his. So let's see how it pans out if he, if he gets hired.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah. One of the things I think about when I hear the name Mourinho is not the fact that he's obviously won trophies in his career. Is that the version of Mourinho we're getting now, Guillermo isn't the same guy from those years gone by. Now, does it feel like a really out of touch appointment, especially when the modern game has moved on?

[Guillermo Ray]

Well, I wouldn't bet right now on the future. I wouldn't bet on Mourinho or against Mourinho. I'd say that inside the wrestling room there are some voices in favor of the move, basically because they are tired of Alvaro Beloa. They need a change and that's right now the main thing, they need a change of head coach. And I think the first decision that will be official in the coming days is what is expected, basically. But about modern football, about nostalgia, I'd say let's take a look back to Carlo Ancelotti's second spell. He moved from Everton in 2021. I remember talking to you Ayo one week ago about this. But 2021, he was the Everton head coach. He was okay, but he wasn't at his peak of his career. And then he came back to Real Madrid. Real Madrid fans weren't very happy about the move at the start. And then he became probably the best or one of the best Real Madrid head coaches in the history. Right? Or even the football history. So I don't think that with coaches we can talk about they are old fashioned or they are because let's face it, Real Madrid is a different club in everything. If we talk about the culture of the club, Florentino Peretz is taking here the shots. So we have to put. It's difficult. I know guys, but let's try to be Florentino and think as Florentino. I think that if we think as Florentino, the most logic decision will be to appoint Mourinho right now. And if you think about planning, about squad planning, I think it's also logical because Real Madrid have been signing constantly players to play for a style of football more or less based on the Mourinho's idea, low block counterattack. And they have signed other coaches who have tried innovative methods like Xavier Alonso. Then the disaster. So let's see.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, yeah, count him out at your peril, Thomas. I mean there is some sense to what Guillermo is saying, but I mean, I can't help but think you're right. It's not the same Mourinho as we've seen in the past. I mean, we talk about how important something like the Champions League is to Real Madrid. This guy hasn't really been in the latter stages of that competition for a very long time. But who knows? Real Madrid and common sense rarely go together.

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, as Guillermo says, things that happen at Real Madrid endlessly confuse us. Right. Or you know, seem to defy logic. You know, last year I was saying that Xabi Alonso's project was going to be brilliant. We all thought that they were going to sweep all before them. They had these, these new signings and that really did not work out that way. I guess I would say with Mourinho, I do Just feel, though, is he really the mediator to bring calm to this, to this dressing room? Because really, last time that happened at Madrid, that was really Ancelotti post Mourinho, who was coming in calming tensions. So is the answer to a really tense dressing room to bring in a manager who seems to have brought more tension to the dressing rooms he's been in? I'm not sure, but like Guillermo says, I won't count him out just yet.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, I mean, only two years ago they were lifting their record, extending 15th Champions League. Guillermo, if any club has the capacity of bouncing back, especially in the Champions League, you cannot write off Real Madrid, can you?

[Guillermo Ray]

No, not really. Like, I think that, as Thomas said, like, this is not about logic, this is about feeling sometimes about the instinct as well, with Florentino especially. And I think the fact that Mourinho changed many things in his first spell at Real Madrid can give us like a good example of what could happen next. For real, there is a promising squad, there are some young players, but there's still players who need to develop. And I think with Mourinho, they will have a chance. Dean Hausen, for example, Alvaro Carreras, they were signed last season. The club spent almost 200 million euros on them. And they really need to bet on the players. And I'm sure that Mourinho will try to make the best of them and it will be pretty interesting from a journalistic point of view, to be honest, to see what Mourinho does to the veterans. Right, because Mourinho always surprised the fans with another theory, another decision making process. And I think people need this right now. I think fans need something different. They have, obviously at Real Madrid. Carlo Ancelotti, Finelli incident, Vicente Del Bosque. The best coaches in the Real Madrid's history have been diplomats and we know that. But if we need changes, maybe we need a Mourinho again. That's what I'm saying. That is something logic or logical in the Real Madrid executive's mind. Yeah, yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

I mean, you're just being selfish. You just want the headlines. I know you. It's good. He's going to bring the headlines back to Madrid, honestly. Well, you better go now because we're going to be talking about Barcelona extending their La Liga title wins. So. Yeah. Appreciate your time as always, brother.

[Guillermo Ray]

My pleasure.

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[Thomas Hill]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayoak Molere.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Okay, we're joined now by our Barcelona correspondent, Paul Balus. Paul, I mean, have you slept yet? Are you asking them when the bus procession's happening? What's going on? Must be jubilation in Catalonia today.

[Paul Balus]

It is. It is a big fist. I haven't slept because I'm not in those days where I'm just behaving at this point of life right now. But yeah, Barcelona is just a fist. There were celebrations at the camp now until late last night after the game, but it went until even later. I don't know if you've seen videos on social media, but there's been footage of Marc Cazado and Alejandro Balde going to Plaza Catalonia, to the heart of Barcelona, to celebrate with fans in a place that was filled with thousands of fans. Then we've seen Eric Garcia, Daniel Mon Pedri riding public Bike. Just having a ride in the city to celebrate it.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

I saw it.

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah. Some fans were filming them, waving at them. That's quite nice.

[Paul Balus]

Exactly. And even Joan Laporta, I don't know if you've seen the footage, but Joo Laporta in a nightclub which is quite famous in Barcelona. Lutheras just singing Barca songs at the DJ set and just smoking a cigar. So basically that's just from sheer relief.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

He's like, I could afford it for another season, thank God.

[Paul Balus]

Yeah, yeah. But that's the sort of mood that we have in. There's an amazing video of Chesney jumping with fans while. While having a cigarette at the song of Chesney smoker. Chesney smoker. That's amazing. Yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Can I just say, what a career as well. We haven't even. We're not even going to speak about that, but, yeah, welcome back to professional football. La Liga title, my friend. Absolutely right. I mean, look, Thomas, so much celebration and probably, you know, jubilation from Barcelona fans, but we have to talk about Hansi Flick here at Barcelona, you know, because their team are now on course to match the most points ever in La Liga. Did you expect them to be so dominant this season?

[Thomas Hill]

No, I don't think I did expect them to be so dominant because obviously they added a great goalkeeper in John Garcia, but they lost a lot of defensive leadership and experience in Inigo Martinez at the same time. As we were saying earlier in the pod, you know, Chabi Alonso was seemingly building this. This great project at Real Madrid. Oh, dear. So, you know, looking back on that now, I think it's easy to say, yeah, we expected Barca to kind of take everything in their stride, but this has been a, you know, a difficult season for them at times. As. As Pola's reported, they've had lots of injuries. You know, your Mao's out at the moment. They obviously lost in the Champions League quarterfinals, Copa del Rey semifinals to Atletico Madrid. But it's. It's a massive achievement and it does really confirm their. Their dominance in Spain. I don't think Real Madrid are getting anywhere near to them at the moment. So, yeah, Flick deserves full credit for. For coming in. In a tricky situation when he arrived after the whole saga over Xavi's future. And he's really transformed them with kind of limited funds, cut price signings sometimes, and he's turned them into a really strong team with the help of La Masia, the famous youth academy as well.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, we'll talk about the funds in just a Second, Paul. But Thomas makes a really good point there, because even if you look at Flick's debut season last term, Barca won the domestic treble of La Liga. You know, I mean, not many funds, but seems to be getting the job done with this team and just tweaking it in the right way just to get things over the line.

[Paul Balus]

No, absolutely. The management that he's had has been outstanding. When he arrived, one of the things that impressed most Deco and Bojan, the sporting directors when they met Flick, was that he had this report of the full team, of the second team and of the under 19s, knowing every player and saying, look, I think that there's potential here to be champions without the massive overhaul of players and new signings. Which is, in a way, was what Xavi was sort of asking. And the club said, okay, this guy is confident with what he sees, what he has, and then he's put that into practice in a way, I think that. And we have the example of Real Madrid, that is, in a way, the opposite. But the way that Barca has been managing, it has been really clever because Flick has been empowered by Deco and Bella Porto. He's been a figure that has had. He has a responsibility and he has leadership in that group. When he says something, the players follow. And that's in a structure that Deco has tried to build and has worked to build. And yeah, Fleek has been really good. He's in sort of father figure for that dressing room, which is probably what they need. And then he's managed to do something that, for me, is the most impressive thing. This group of Parcel players. This is not the best Parsel player that we have ever seen, but I have not seen many generations that have moved the crowd in the way that this team has done. And it's a generation that is so easy to support, it's so easy to cheer for them. The amount of Llamas players that they really feel, the badge, they are really Barca fans, the fearless approach that they have when they play, how entertaining they are, you really want them to do well because they feel this club. And that's merit of Hans Vlik as well, because he's made this team identify themselves with a way of playing that. It has not been enough for the Champions League so far, but it's made people happy, which in a way, that's what people want in football and what Barca fans want in football.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, it's such a joy listening to you, Paul, for a change. Not going. Barcelona's a mess in the background I don't know how they're going to afford this. I don't know what lever they're going to pull, but that's the reality of modern Barcelona. And I want to talk to you about something. Marcus Rashford scored a brilliant free kick and it was exceptional on Sunday. Barca have a 30 million euro clause to sign him permanently. Come on, what's going to happen? Are they going to do it?

[Paul Balus]

So there's a big debate now what's going on or what's going to happen with Marcus Rashford. The decision is going to happen as in now, in the next days, because Barcelona wanted to have the league title sorted. Now it's done. But there's a debate here on what to do. There's a 30 million buy option. It might look cheap and a deal that could be feasible for Barcelona finances. But when it comes to signings, Barca look at every player that they want to sign with the lens of how much is this going to cost us to register? So Marcus Rashford, let's say that Barca signed him, there's the 30 million buy option, but then there's a big salary. And Barca, they don't plan to give him a super long contract because he's going to turn 29 in October, I think so. On the other hand, if you sign a younger player for a higher fee in a lower salary maybe, and you give him a five year contract and you can spread the impact of the amortization, and that's something that takes into account in the salary limit and the registration rules made by La Liga. So there's people at Barca that they tell you, look, it's the same for us to pay 30 million for Rashford or pay, let's say 65 million for a younger player and make this sort of longer amortization. So that's the debate that Barca people are having now. Should we stick with Rashford, a player which has been good this season? There's probably a ceiling that's not. The potential is already there, maybe because he's going to turn to 29, as we said, or we go to a younger player who can provide us with a bigger ceiling. So that's a debate that sources and directors at Barca are having now and they are still in the situation. If you ask me my opinion, I say difficult, that Barca go all in for Rashford. But you can never dismiss any option. And the reality is that no definitive decision has been made. But my feeling is that there's people at the club who would Prefer to invest in a younger profile for the long term. Can have a bigger perspective maybe than Marcos Raj for the Globe.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, Thomas, I mean, he's definitely enjoying his time. He keeps talking about how much he's enjoying his time at Barcelona and why not? I mean, he's miles away from Manchester. All that criticism and he looks to be scoring incredible goals. It looks like Marcus Rashford is back to a certain degree. They've also got a player like Joao Cancelo as well who they might need to think about what they do with him at the end of the season. I mean, Barca have a young squad. These are two players that I've mentioned with really solid experience. Surely you'd be thinking about that if you want to push on for the season ahead.

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah, I think so. But I think as Paul says, there's possibly other profiles as well that could reinforce them more. We know that the priority or one of the big priorities for Barca this summer is signing a center forward. That could really take the team to the next level. Paul's reported on all of this and yeah, that experience is useful, I think, but there are perhaps other priorities as well which could be better served with signings this summer.

[Paul Balus]

One of the things I think Rashford season has been good, really good. And if he doesn't continue Barcelona, he will be fondly remembered by every Barca fan because I think that's what he's given to the club and the vision that the fans have towards him. But as Thomas was saying here, and he's not the perfect package either in the way that Barca plays. We talked about that a lot. But the pressing of the ball, how you perform in that front from Flick is really important. I think that's not a strong asset for Rashford and I think that his numbers have been great, but sometimes he's a bit disconnected from the number, from the overall game of Barcelona and at Barcelona, the whole system, the idea of the philosophy is very important and they look at it a lot as well. Not just the numbers, but the feelings and how the things that are not in the start. And that is going to play an impact as well in this decision making. And as Thomas said, there's a lot of things that Barca want to reinforce and I don't know, there's a saying in Spain which says, like la manta es muy corta, which is the blanket is a bit too short sometimes and it can cover your head or it can cover your feet and you need to make a bit of adjustments and balance. And I Don't know if they can go too hard in that fresh first look.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

But also you have to say this is a player that's come from a different system and this is only his first season at Barcelona. So you're expecting him to learn all these cultural connections and things like that, but at the same time he's scoring important goals, at the same time he's providing important assists. Surely those are the metrics when it comes to winning a football match.

[Paul Balus]

You've got to be looking at absolutely. No, no, no. And that's. And that's a fact. And nobody's taking for granted the fact that it's his first season in here and that it's not easy to adapt to in a system where all your teammates have been playing here for decades, so they know everything. It's not easy. But at the same time, it's going to be a decision of like Barca, how do they look at the team for the future? And if they believe that they have an option with a better long term future, if sticking with Rashford is the best thing that they can do, yeah, it's going to go down, I think, to the conflict, basically. Who are the biggest decision makers in that regard?

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Okay, well, we're talking about Hansen Flick. A special mention to the fact that he lost his father hours before the Real Madrid game. And players and staff showed their love for him during the celebrations. And he also had a lovely speech at the end of the celebrations as well on the pitch, thanking the fans and the players and also the staff as well. I mean, really strong stuff to actually turn up for a game of such magnitude after such a heavy loss.

[Paul Balus]

No, it tells you a lot about connection that there is with Flick, with the club, with everyone, with the players. I think that when you see Flick speaking in every press conference, you get the sense that coming to Barcelona changed him in a way, in the way that he approached and how he's learned to leave the club. He lives in the heart of the city. You can spot him having a wall with his grandchildren in the park or going to a restaurant in the city center because he likes to be involved in that. And I think that this Mediterranean way of approaching his life has changed in a way as well because he's found in Barcelona a club that is a huge brand, one of the biggest in the world, football. But the way that it works inside is a small family. You're really close to the sporting director, to the president. The president comes by and says hi to you. The president is close to the dressing Room as well. The players know each other since they are teenagers or even younger than that. So there's a sense of family and closeness that Flick. And speaking to people close to him, he's never found that in his life. In a world that was more professional, more like, focused on performing now it's. I think he's more oriented to feelings, to the experience, to what he feels with this club. And I think that, yeah, him staying yesterday in the tough day that it was for him, was a gesture of how he feels about that club and thinks about Barcelona and his job as a family sort of thing.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

So interesting. We talk about Barca, Thomas, this sort of family, like, organization, and then you flip to Real Madrid. Are you thinking. Whoever's left to Real Madrid said, it's really changed my life. I want to alter the way I live my life. I want to walk with my kids, my grandkids, in the center of town. It's so interesting when Paul talks about it because it really demonstrates how these two clubs operate, really, doesn't it?

[Thomas Hill]

Yeah. And they're totally unique. I mean, Guillermo was saying that as well, right. That Real Madrid is unique in the way it operates. Barcelona is too. I think that's why for players who come from the outside, like Rashford, other Englishmen as well at Madrid, like Trent Alexander, Arnold and Jude Bellingham, it is kind of difficult to get on board with maybe at first. And that's why they deserve credit for when they kind of slot into those teams or try to kind of get used to the customs. Let's not forget these are also two clubs that have two newspapers in each case that are covering every cough, spit and splutter, really, at every side. So that brings its own pressure. And again, that's why what. What Flick has done at Barca, turning it into a really united family while in the Spanish capital, it's probably, you know, more of a. One of those dysfunctional families that you don't really want to hang out with. Is. Is really impressive.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Yeah, for sure. And finally, Paul, I'm not gonna let you go without talking about the finances, because we've spoken about how they might be able to afford Marcus Rashford or not Joao Cancelo, another player I've mentioned.

[Guillermo Ray]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

I mean, look what is going on right now. Laporta seems to be smoking cigars, but he's still got some serious worries, I imagine.

[Paul Balus]

Yeah, no, we. We have another big summer ahead. The issues with Barcelona are just going to be the same. Not as much as the money they can spend on a transfer. Fee or if they can put together, let's say 50 million or 60 million to sign a player, but the impact it has towards the registration and if they can register a new player. So that's what they take into account when it comes to signing. Right now they are still below the salary limit that La Liga set for them during the campaign to the elections in March. People at the club said that they were missing just 12 million to make it even and to operate in a more in a better sort of a spectrum when it comes to signing and registering new players. But we have no news that this has happened yet. There might be the sale of Ansu Fati to Monaco. That is something that is on the cards. That might help a bit as well. But it's going to be one of those summers that I think that Barcelona will do signings and be signings, but they are not going to be quick sort of business or they cannot go straight to it because they will need time and the more time they have to figure a bit their balance is going to be best for them and it's going to take a bit of negotiating and like scrappy negotiations. So it's going to be one of those summers again with Barca spending money, both trying to find the best moment, trying to offload people as well and to make the balance to register eventually new players, which is their biggest battle at this point.

[Ayo Akimwilere]

Okay gents, I better leave it there and let polka and have a nice little whatever they like to drink in Barcelona after a title win. Appreciate it. Paul Thomas and also Giladmo who joined us earlier. Nice one. Thanks for joining us and we'll catch you soon.

[Thomas Hill]

You've been listening to the album Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal. The executive producer was a moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.

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[Paul Balus]

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