How will leaving Goodison impact Everton?

Summary

Detailed Summary of "How Will Leaving Goodison Impact Everton?" – The Athletic FC Podcast

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Athletic FC Podcast
• Host: Ayo Akinwolere
• Guests: Rory Smith, Paddy Boylan, Adrian Clark
• Episode Title: How Will Leaving Goodison Impact Everton?
• Release Date: February 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Athletic FC Podcast, host Ayo Akinwolere delves into the significant transition Everton Football Club is undergoing as it prepares to leave Goodison Park, their historic home ground, for a new stadium. Joined by Everton correspondent Paddy Boylan, senior writer Rory Smith, and former Arsenal midfielder Adrian Clark, the discussion navigates the emotional, financial, and cultural implications of this monumental move.

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The Final Merseyside Derby at Goodison Park

The episode opens with an analysis of the upcoming Merseide Derby, marking the last ever match at Goodison Park. Ayo sets the stage by highlighting the historical intensity of these rivalries and the current form of both teams.

Ayo Akinwolere (01:39): "Tonight's Merseyside Derby will be the last ever at Goodison Park and there have been some absolute belters in the past."

Rory Smith (02:35): "It's Dresden Park, especially under the floodlights. It's always hostile and intimidating and pressurized as it should be."

Rory emphasizes the unique atmosphere of Goodison Park, noting its role in making derby matches particularly challenging for Liverpool despite their strong position in the league.

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Cherished Moments at Goodison Park

The conversation shifts to personal anecdotes and memorable moments experienced at Goodison Park, underscoring the deep emotional connection fans and players have with the stadium.

Ayo Akinwoleri (05:34): "I was thinking about my favorite moments at Goodison Park... Wayne Rooney's debut goal was unforgettable."

Adrian Clark (05:57): "A brilliant goal. Remember the name Wayne Rooney for you."

Paddy Boylan (06:11): "The comeback against Crystal Palace under Frank Lampard, going from 2-0 down to a 3-2 victory, encapsulates what Goodison is all about."

These stories highlight the stadium's role in fostering unforgettable football moments, reinforcing its legacy in Everton's history.

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The Journey to the New Stadium

Paddy Boylan provides an in-depth overview of Everton's long and tumultuous journey towards building the new stadium, shedding light on past challenges and recent progress.

Paddy Boylan (13:07): "Multiple failed stadium attempts and the collapse of the King's Dock project made this journey arduous."

He discusses the architectural feat of constructing the new state-of-the-art facility on the Liverpool dock, emphasizing the nearly completed development and the anticipatory excitement among fans.

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Financial Challenges and Solutions

The financial hurdles faced during the stadium project are candidly addressed, with Paddy outlining how the club navigated funding obstacles amid geopolitical tensions and ownership changes.

Paddy Boylan (15:40): "They had to find a way through by hook or by crook, with significant short-term high-interest loans to keep up with payments."

He acknowledges owner fundraising efforts and the critical role of recent ownership changes in finalizing the stadium's completion, highlighting the strategic importance of the new venue for Everton's financial future.

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Commercial Potential of the New Stadium

Rory Smith and Paddy Boylan engage in a robust discussion about the new stadium's potential to generate additional revenue through concerts, corporate events, and naming rights deals.

Rory Smith (17:50): "The Emirates Stadium's transformation shows that commercial revenue is a supplementary stream, not transformational. The new stadium will likely follow a similar model."

Paddy Boylan (20:57): "Everton aims to create a 365-day stadium with concerts, conferences, and corporate events, significantly boosting their revenue."

They explore how these commercial ventures, while not the primary revenue source, provide essential financial flexibility to invest in player acquisitions and club development.

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Impact on Atmosphere and Fan Experience

The transition from Goodison Park to the new stadium's impact on the matchday atmosphere is a focal point, with comparisons drawn to Arsenal's relocation to the Emirates Stadium.

Paddy Boylan (30:02): "Can Everton replicate the passionate atmosphere of Goodison Park in the new stadium? The design, including a steep gradient, is intended to bring fans closer to the action."

Adrian Clark (32:18): "Players enjoy playing in steep stands next to the pitch. The new stadium’s design should enhance the experience, making it more lively and intimate."

The guests discuss strategies to preserve the emotional intensity of matches, emphasizing that success on the pitch will be crucial in fostering a home-like environment in the new venue.

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Future Outlook for Everton

Looking ahead, the conversation turns to how the new stadium positions Everton for future success, both on and off the field.

Kevin Thelwell (26:54): "We have a strong opportunity to develop a team capable of winning trophies and playing in Europe, fitting our new world-class stadium."

Rory Smith (23:45): "The new stadium allows Everton to maximize commercial and corporate revenue, providing an extra £30-40 million annually, which is significant for squad development."

The discussion highlights the strategic advantages the new stadium offers, including enhanced commercial opportunities and the financial means to attract higher-caliber players, ultimately aiming to elevate Everton's status in the Premier League.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the bittersweet farewell to Goodison Park and optimism for the future at the new stadium. The guests agree that while Goodison holds a special place in Everton's history, the new facility represents a pivotal step towards modernizing the club and achieving greater success.

Ayo Akinwoleri (37:02): "Thank you so much for your time, gents. Rory, Paddy and Adrian as well. Thank you for listening and we'll be back tomorrow."

This heartfelt sign-off underscores the collective hope that the new stadium will usher in a prosperous era for Everton, blending tradition with modernity to secure a bright future.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Rory Smith (02:35): "It's Dresden Park, especially under the floodlights. It's always hostile and intimidating and pressurized as it should be."

• Adrian Clark (05:57): "A brilliant goal. Remember the name Wayne Rooney for you."

• Paddy Boylan (06:11): "The comeback against Crystal Palace under Frank Lampard... it was a symbolic one for me."

• Paddy Boylan (15:40): "They had to find a way through by hook or by crook, with significant short-term high-interest loans to keep up with payments."

• Rory Smith (17:50): "The Emirates Stadium's transformation shows that commercial revenue is a supplementary stream, not transformational."

• Paddy Boylan (20:57): "Everton aims to create a 365-day stadium with concerts, conferences, and corporate events."

• Adrian Clark (32:18): "Players enjoy playing in steep stands next to the pitch."

• Kevin Thelwell (26:54): "We have a strong opportunity to develop a team capable of winning trophies and playing in Europe."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing listeners with valuable insights into Everton's transition from Goodison Park to their new stadium, the challenges faced, and the promising future that lies ahead.

Transcript

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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinwaleri. Tonight's Merseyside Derby will be the last ever at Goodison park and there have been some absolute belters in the past.

[Rory Smith]

And Cahill the man for the Derby year after year.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

So what are Everton losing in MO from Goodison Park? And what are the benefits of football clubs switching to a new home? With us today we have our Everton correspondent Paddy Boylan, senior writer Rory Smith and former Arsenal midfielder Adrian Clark as well. Gents, let's just get into this Merseyside Derby at Goodison park tonight. It's really important and I think I said it in a previous podcast about the permutations. Right Liverpool obviously looking like they're in a good place at the top of the Premier League. Everton looking to get momentum again. They're having a great spell under Moyes. This is going to have a bit of Heat to it historically as well, don't you think Rory?

[Rory Smith]

It's one of those games. I think that no matter where Everton are in the table, I think it is one of Liverpool's two or three hardest games of the season. Regardless of form, regardless of the quality of the teams, regardless of kind of the relationship between them. It's. It's Dresden park, especially under the floodlights. It's always hostile and intimidating and pressurised as it should be. That's exactly what you want. And to be honest, given the circumstances, I think this is a slightly weird one. Obviously it's the last derby at Goodison which is a. That is a major kind of. That's a major milestone really and it will be an evening I think of passion and fury and frenzy but also a little bit of sorrow. More from the Evertonian side than the Liverpudlian side. It's almost a kind of freebie for Liverpool. It's their game in hand, they're six points clear. I think it is the, the very definition of a derby in which a draw quite a good result.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

What do you think Adrian? Is a draw a good result for Everton fans?

[Adrian Clark]

I think they want to sign off at Goodison with a famous win. Let's be honest, some of the best memories created at Goodison park in for this generation of supporters have been nights or days where they've stayed up. You know, they survived. You know you have to go way back really to the 80s for the glory days of Everton and for those, those real cherished memories. They got an opportunity, haven't they in this game to create one of the greatest moments memories in the history of the famous, famous stadium to beat Liverpool, potentially damage their. Or derail or damage Liverpool's title chances. What you know, opportunity knocks for them but, but with that comes pressure, doesn't it? So, so will the players be able to. To bring their A game? I wonder. So yeah it's. It's a huge game actually for, for both teams. Everton players know they, they need or perform for the supporters to give them something to take away and Liverpool, you know win and, and you know they're almost there.

[Paddy Boylan]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

It's not like an Arsenal fan Adrian to be wishing derailment of Liverpool right now. Right Everton?

[Adrian Clark]

Yeah, guilty as chance.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Yeah, I can see I still right through it. I mean how beautiful would that be for Everton to derail Liverpool's title hopes this season? I mean they're still pretty comfortable up there but it would be very special historically anyway.

[Paddy Boylan]

It would be of course. Yeah. And I think actually if you'd asked most Evertonians, they would have quite liked to finish the Goodison Derbys last season with the April victory. Just draw a line on it there and let's be done with it. I mean, it is an opportunity in a number of senses, of course. It's an opportunity to give Goodison a proper Derby farewell. It's also a chance for Everton to, in what is effectively a free hit of a game, their game in hand, to go 12 points clear of relegation. And then finally, of course, another important one, dent Liverpool's title. Hope so. I mean, kind of a historic, monumental occasion and everybody's really looking forward to it.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

You know, I was thinking about my favorite moments at Goodison park and obviously I'm not an Everton fan, but one of my most memorable moments was Wayne Rooney. I mean it was, it was a win for Everton. He came on as a substitute, I think he was 16 years old. Announces himself to the world with an absolute banger from outside the box, Rooney, instant control.

[Rory Smith]

Chances.

[Paddy Boylan]

Oh, brilliant goal.

[Rory Smith]

A brilliant goal. Remember the name Wayne Rooney for you.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Paddy, you know, what are your favorite moments? Or give us one favorite moment from Goodison Park.

[Paddy Boylan]

Yeah, I think that the one that encapsulates everything that Goodison is about at its very best for me was the 32 against Crystal Palace a couple of seasons ago under Frank Lampard. Bedlam from. From start to finish, you've got the depths of despair at 2 nil down at halftime when everybody is thinking Everton had done here and they're going to be in the championship next season. An amazing comeback in part inspired by Dele Alli, his kind of one major telling contribution at Goodison. And then the scenes of full time. I mean the sheer relief.

[Rory Smith]

They'Ve done it. It's like 1994 all over again.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

From 2 nil down to a 32 victory.

[Paddy Boylan]

But then what that spilled into Frank Lampard up on the director's box with fans jumping about as kind of fans swarm the pitch and you have the players singing songs with the supporters. I mean, I got out of the stadium probably about midnight and walked around Goodison and it was like a post apocalyptic scene. It was like you had kind of pyro stains everywhere, just litter everywhere. It looked like there'd be a big. I mean you could spit it a couple of ways, but it looked like a big party in one sense and I will always remember that. And you'll have certain fans who say you shouldn't be celebrating Everton just staying up. And of course I agree but just in terms of the atmosphere that night and what Goodison can be at its very best and how it helps the team in tough moments, I think that was quite a bit big symbolic one for me.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

What about you Rory?

[Rory Smith]

Yeah, well I used to go to Goodison a lot. My first kind of permanent job as a football journalist was as the Telegraph's Merseyside correspondent. So I went to Anfield one week and then Dudison the next. And despite my kind of personal loyalties to the other side of Merseyside I am of course like we all are a professional. And you meet people who are Everton fans, you meet people who work for the club, you get to know some of the players, some of the staff. And I've ever since then had a slightly tense soft spot for Everton except when they, when they play Liverpool, when they want Liverpool to win. But I kind of don't. I don't have a lot of the traditional kind of hostility towards Everton. And Drudison at its best is a truly remarkable stadium. And there's you know, there's a kind of running joke about the Drudison boo. And I think when Judison's unhappy I think it is probably quite a difficult place for Everton players to play. But when times are good and when the team are kind of, when they exist on that kind of that really delicate access that Evertonians seem to want between the school of science and the dodgers of war when they have a team that lives up to those two definitions of what Everton are. It is as Paddy says it is chaotic and noisy and passionate and intimidating in a good way. And I think the last time I went for a game of any real significance was the 1 nil win against I think Bournemouth when de Torres straw to take them up on the final day of the season. And there's the sense of relief when, when that goal went in that you know another kind of great escape wasn't really a great escape. It was quite a good escape really. It wasn't. They were never in that much peril. But you know the sense of relief, the sense of joy in the sunshine reminded you of all those amazing nights at Drudison. And it has that ability to create those moments in a way that I think only the truly old historic traditional stadiums can. And Durdeson has a place in history. It's the first purpose built football stadium in England. It is a part of English football's fabric and I think you feel that in those moments.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

What about you Adrian?

[Adrian Clark]

Yeah, it's a beautiful stadium. I Love it. I love the fact that the press box is absolutely tiny. There's no leg room. It was built for much smaller people. Not that I'm very, very tall.

[Rory Smith]

Exactly at your height, Adrian. That's easy to say exactly. Compact individual like yourself. That's.

[Adrian Clark]

Oh, come on, that's harsh. Compact. It's not something I've been described but I'll take it, I'll take it on the chin from you, Rory. Having posts in the way, you know, it's all, it's all part of the fun and games, isn't it? You're in amongst the fans, they can pretty much hear what you're saying when you're compensating. I was there for Ancelotti's first game. That was quite surreal. You know Ancelotti, is he really in that technical area down there? It was quite remarkable really. But yeah, I love the ground. Memories wise it's mainly from, from watching on the TV I got any stunning memories of being there on any famous nights. I remember the, the Andy Johnson derby where he scored a brace and the third goal to sort of seal it. And if you remember this, Lee Carsley smacks one, Pepe Reyna spills it and then he reclaims it and he thinks he's going to carry the ball into the net and he chucks it in the air, which is a bizarre thing to do. And then Andy Johnson nods it in and. And Goodison just goes absolutely wild.

[Rory Smith]

Nick Arsley and the goalkeeper couldn't keep it out. Johnson's got another. Everton have SC3 in the Derby for the first time since 1966.

[Adrian Clark]

That was. That's something that really stands out in my mind as does probably that. But was it the Barry Horn go that that kept them up back in the 90s I think. 94, wasn't it? What a goal. Top bins on the volley from 30 yards, you know. So yeah, there's been some amazing moments and yeah, I'm sad to see it, see it go. Really amazing. Yeah, I think a lot of people will miss it that aren't Everton fans.

[Rory Smith]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamwalere.

[Paddy Boylan]

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[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Right, let's move to the present Paddy. Let's talk about the new stadium. Apparently the clubs say the starts for the new stadium started in 1998. Where do we go from here? Talk to us about that.

[Paddy Boylan]

It's quite a journey to get here. Multiple failed stadium attempts and the one when I was growing up was down at the King's Dock site which is closer to the center of the city, and that collapsed pretty late in the day in very typical Everton style, very dramatic, almost out of nowhere seemingly. And since then it has been a kind of a long, arduous journey to get to where we are right now. I mean one thing you've got to say is like they've done this in a really challenging climate. When you think about the geopolitical situation, Everton's links with Russian sponsors who were then going to provide a naming rights deal that would have in effect funded the final tranche of the development. They've done it while the owner was looking to sell. I've had to bring in loads of short term loans to just get through on a day to day basis. But it's there and it's done. And it's an architectural feat as well. They've built a new stadium, a new state of the art facility right on the dock in Liverpool. In the dock. Having to kind of fill the dock with loads of sand from, dredge it up from elsewhere. And we're nearly there now. I mean Monday the 17th I will be at a test event, the first test event at the new stadium where Everton under 18s will be playing a game. I think it'll be at capacity of around 10,000 there and they ramp those numbers up as we go through the test events. But we're nearly there now and the sense of anticipation has really built for quite a long time. It's been common to hear Everton supporters saying things like, this is brilliant, but are we going to be intact as a Premier League club when we get there? The finish line is in sight now, so people can start to get a little bit excited. As Rory's piece detailed so magnificently the other week, they are picking their season tickets as we speak and making plans for it all. So, yeah, very, very exciting.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

I think the big one we always talk about is the money right from when this stadium was earmarked to where it's at now. I mean, inflation, cost of living, everything's changed over time. I mean, how are they affording it?

[Paddy Boylan]

Yeah, so the plans have changed numerous times, I think it's fair to say. The initial one was for a mix of debt and equity, so Moshe would fund bits of it and then the final bit would be senior debt secured from lenders elsewhere. And then they would also have a stadium naming rights package with Alisha Usmanov's megaphone to complete the package. Obviously those plans had to be scrapped. Those sponsorship deals were suspended initially indefinitely and then cancelled. So they've had to find a way through by hook or by crook. Mushiri did a lot of this himself out of his own pocket. And we have to remember that for all his flaws, and there were many, he has helped play a significant role in getting the stadium over the line. The other bit has been, as I alluded to earlier, a succession of short term high interest loans to keep up with the payment schedule to build as Lango Rourke, and I think it has, it's fair to say it's been dicey at times, it's been hairy and the club has struggled to meet all its costs. The freakin group have come in, the new owners have come in at a really important time. Now they can capitalise on the commercial opportunities the stadium brings, increase revenue. But they have also played a pretty small role in the very final part of it all. They have provided the final funding to complete the internal fit out of the stadium, which is, which is taking place right now. I mean, we're nearly there. We're about 99% done in that stadium right now.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Okay, Rory, Paddy makes a really interesting point. This commercial revenue this new stadium will be bringing. I just saw Aston Villa announce that Kendrick Lamar is going to be there. I mean, I'm a Midlander. Kendrick Lamar coming to Birmingham is. Is massive. So are we going to start seeing this up there? You know, big concerts? I mean, we've seen what's happening at Spurs. This is the model of, of A new stadia, all that commercial revenue and hopefully we see some tastier players on the pitch maybe.

[Rory Smith]

Yeah, so I think that does seem to be part of the, the thinking. We've seen an increase in this, in this kind of in the high profile contest at Anfield in the last few years. It's not something that the either ground has traditionally done. I think, you know, spurs, the Emirates, various places in Manchester have kind of got a bit more tradition of using their stadiums as concert venues which I think is, you know, what we all want as fans. But Taylor Swift did, Paddy might know but Taylor Swift did at least one night in Liverpool, maybe two last year and field and you can see Everton. I'm saying that just Paddy's on Merseyside not just he's a massive swiftie although he might be, I don't know.

[Paddy Boylan]

Fair enough.

[Rory Smith]

I mean Paddy, it's safer just to say you're a swiftie because otherwise the abuse just isn't worth it. I think it's something that clubs are exploring and Everton you would expect partly because of the size of it, partly because it's new, partly because it's in a brilliant location not just to rival Anfield as a stadium but what used to be the Ms. Bank arena, the Liverpool arena is on the waterfront and if you're in a stage, a gig in Liverpool you probably want to do it on the waterfront because it's a bit more iconic. I'm slightly sceptical of how much that kind of income now shifts the dial for football teams. I think that is part of the thinking of building the stadiums but I'm not sure given, given the balance of revenues whether you know, staging two or three gigs a year. Duns and Roses I think have played Anfield. Bruce Sprinstein maybe did as well as you say Kendrick's playing Villa Park. You see it at spurs most frequently in terms of the amount of money it brings in. Given how much the TV broadcasting revenue's worth I don't think it's transformational in the way that it would have been in the 90s. If you'd been able to repurpose a stadium in the 90s to stage massive gigs or to have an F1 deal, a Spurs do whatever it might be that 15, 20, 30 million quid of commercial revenue, which is a huge amount of money obviously would have been transformational. Now it's a supplementary revenue stream and I think for Everton the primary appeal of the stadium, obviously it's expanding the crowd. It's been able to get another 15,000 people in every other Saturday, which does start to have a significant effect on your finances. I think as much as anything it's status. I think it's the sense that Drudison park, as sort of full of memory and as evocative as it is, felt like an old stadium. And Everton have Since I think 95 been thinking about trying to move under. Peter Johnson was the chairman when they first sort of mooted the idea of leaving Goodison and I think there's an element of an awareness that you need a modern kind of sleek, state of the art stadium to look and feel like a modern super club. And that's what Everton's ambition is and should be because that's what Everton's traditional role in English football. I don't know if the amount of money they can make from concerts and ancillary use of the stadium will necessarily translate into 70 million pound playmakers. Every little helps, don't get me wrong, but it's not the bulk of the money that the club will raise.

[Paddy Boylan]

Rory makes a really interesting point there because it kind of has to be everything, right? It can't just be concerts. I mean Everton want this to be a 365 day a year stadium as they've framed it to us. They want conferences there, business conferences there on non match days. They want the concerts and they will have a license for a certain number of concerts each year. Have to remember as well that Bramley Mordau, currently the stadium there is down for Euro 2028. So that's a big boost not only to the football club but the city of Liverpool in general and potentially what that will bring. But the idea here is that Goodison has no corporate facilities whatsoever. I think it has about eight or nine boxes and they are all sold out already. So when they want to bring over execs to explore the city and to get to know the football club for whatever reason, they really, really struggle. I remember being in corporate, the one time I was in corporate at Goodison I was actually in a temporary facility outside the park end stand. You compare that to what you get at Arsenal, even Liverpool now and it's a world away. And that's where almost overnight Everton's ability to host high end clients, if you want to call them that, rises exponentially. That's really important. So too the 13ish thousand extra seats. But also they have owners in the freaking group who are, are perfectly set up to capitalise on some of these opportunities too. They want a naming rights deal. They're looking and Speaking to people right now, they also want to just commercialize the stadium. I think that there's a feeling in general from them that if you go into the equivalent in the us you will see sponsors plastered everywhere around the stadium. And this might be unpalatable to some kind of English football fans, but they get the sense that that space is underutilized commercially in English football stadia. So I think there will be a huge drive to increase revenues across the board. And even if it only ends up being, and I'm just going to pluck a hypothetical figure here, even if it ends up being 30, 40 million pounds a year in extra revenue to Everton in the PSRH, that's 30 to 40 million pounds that the squad did not have. Like, even in January, Everton spent no money despite still being in a relegation battle because they were so constrained by those regulations. So this process has to be incremental. But for the first time in a while, Everton fans can kind of see how this is all going to fit together and how it's going to help and then how the club can hopefully then start to rise up the table.

[Rory Smith]

That's a really good point. You know that in the era of psr, I'd not thought of that before in the year of psi, which has obviously been replaced by squad cost in the summer, those incremental revenues, and Paddy's right to use that word, I think they are significant because that is suddenly an extra 30, 40 million quid that gives you a ceiling. And we've seen like Newcastle struggle. There's this kind of perception, I think, that Newcastle and Villa haven't spent money and they're being held down by the sort of oppressive elite or whatever. The reality is they spent huge sums of money. It's just that they can't rapidly increase their commercial and corporate take at the same time. So you need to find ways of maximizing that. And it might be a few years before Everton really see the benefits of it. But the thing about sponsors is fascinating as well, because Everton may be the best example. There is a tension for English football fans, I think for Premier League fans who consider themselves like legacy fans, people who are in England, particularly local fans, that you want to feel that your club isn't sort of bastion of tradition. You want your club to feel like it did when you were a kid. You don't want it to sell its soul. You don't want it to be like the Dunkin Donuts stand at Bramley Moore Dock where everything is sponsored. You don't want to have like Shirts plastered in logos, you know, Pepitos, pizza rolls or whatever. It just feels tacky and cheap. We don't like it. But at the same time, Everton fans, and this isn't me having a go. Everton fans, I think fans of all clubs are the same. You want your 60 million pound midfielder. We don't make it clear enough that those two things are related. Let if you want the, you know this league that we have where Bournemouth can outspend AC Milan and you get even teams that are relegation threatened have got like seven internationals lining up for them. You have to sell your soul because you're trying to keep. You're trying to compete with clubs and overtake clubs in Europe who've got way more history than you. Like AC Mil are a bigger club than Bournemouth. Obviously they're a bigger club than Bournemouth. They will sign those players if you don't sell every single piece of like commercial real estate. So. So it kind of crystallises that sense of it's really exciting for Everton to move into a new stadium to finally have that feeling of. And Paddy's captured it really well. I think that feeling of being a club moving forward after so long drifting and running through treacle. Everton now can use this as the platform to become what Everton should be or a modern version of what Everton should be. But that's going to involve moving away from tradition. It's going to involve accepting a degree of Americanization and none of us really like it. But that's how you get the Premier League. That's why all of us have jobs. That is why there is an endless array of podcasts about English football. Because the money is there to buy those players, to keep the interest growing. And that is an unpalatable reality. But it is reality. This is the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. acamolera.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

What next for Everton as a club? This is the club's Director of Football, Kevin Thelwell talking about Everton's PSR situation after the transfer window and how it feels like they are coming out of a tunnel.

[Kevin Thelwell]

We can see the light but in our reality we're not quite there yet. We're not quite out of that tunnel. I feel like we're in fairly good shape and that gives us a real strong opportunity to attack the market and start to develop a team that's capable of getting back to winning trophies, playing in Europe and befitting of that world class stadium that we're going to be moving into. What I was really keen to make sure that we did or didn't do in this window is not put all of that work in jeopardy by us doing something daft in the market. That meant we spent more than what we should and then we had less to spend in the summer.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Adrian, you know, back to sort of Rory's point on that. If Everton want to operate like, you know, one of the biggest clubs now, new stadium and all that, is there an element of having to sell one's soul to bring in all this extra money?

[Adrian Clark]

Yeah, I found myself nodding along to most of what Rory said there. It's true, it's fact. And look, most players that they sign won't really care about the tradition of Everton. They won't really be bothered whether it's at Goodison park or at the brand new stadium. In fact, they'll be much more allured to the brand new stadium, you know, playing in front of, you know, vastly increased audience, won't they? In beautiful facilities which aren't, aren't the case currently at Goodison Park. It probably has held, held them back financially, but also in terms of appeal for, for top quality players to come in. So yeah, it's, it's going to be interesting times. I do think that, that over, over time they will now be able to attract better players. Not just because they're bringing in more revenues but because just the whole look of the club, the feel of it is more modern, it's more big time, you know, it's. And, and that's what players want to be a part of. I came through at Arsenal, so for me, leaving Highbury, that was painful because. And so many memories of it and, and, and there was so much success associated with Arsenal during that period. I think between 89 and 2006, you know, Arsenal won five titles, they won numerous FA Cups, the Cup Winners cup up. You know, there's a lot of good times there towards the back end of the Highbury era. So for us it felt like a risk to, to move at a time where opponents hated going there. That small pitch, you know, the vibrant crowd, because they were loving it. They're loving what they were seeing on the pitch. It was, it was a horrible place for opponents to go at the time when Arsenal moved. And that isn't really the case, is it, at Everton at the moment. So maybe the fresh start for them in a brand new environment will, will, you know, change the perceptions of opponents as well.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Yeah, Paddy, One of the interesting things from Highbury to the Emirates was always, you know, I guess that extra 10% of being so close to the crowd, that extra bit you know, even the dimensions of the pitch at Arsenal were integral to how that team played. I mean, you look at the change of atmosphere from somewhere like Upton park to where West Ham are right now, I mean, it's so, so different and. And fair enough. That stadia wasn't necessarily built for football, but it's still a football stadia right now. Do you think Everton, it would take some time to regenerate that extra Goodison Raw.

[Paddy Boylan]

Yeah, I'm fascinated by that dynamic, to be honest, because Goodison at its best is a concerted advantage for Everton. What will Bramley Moore be like? I suppose that's the big question. And there's been a lot of focus during the design stage here. Make sure it does feel right. And that atmosphere translates across. I think it is about a mile separates Goodison park from the new stadium. So can they get that atmosphere as it was at Goodison Park? One of the things they've done through the American architect Dan Mies, who designed the stadium, of course, was create a particularly steep gradient for the stand. So it's get this sense that the supporters are almost on top of the players. You're right to reference Highbury. Goodison's the same. These places, they're so compact that players can hear every single thing supporters are saying. And I think that can be both a blessing and a curse. Goodison can be the best place for a home player to play. It can also, if we're being honest, be one of the worst, because you can hear the grumbles and you can hear what's being said in the crowd. So I think this just. This will be a fresh start. And I think it's a club that needs that fresh start. I mean, like, if you think about the last three or four years, Everton have been limping over the line, just straining to get through to that new dawn. And they're so close now that everyone's looking at this in a positive sense. I think Goodison leaving Goodison is bittersweet, but people know it's necessary now. People know that there is potentially, as we've said, a bright future there. And I think now the focus will start to turn to can we replicate that atmosphere? Can we do it? I think the design helps, but until you're in there, until you experience it, until it becomes yours and you feel it and you start to create your own experiences there, I think that's a tough ask.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Adrian, as a player, did you respond better or worse being so close to the crowd? Because, as Paddy says, someone saying you're not that great, mate. I mean that just play. That just play on the mind where you're about to just whip a wonderful crossing, doesn't it?

[Adrian Clark]

Do you know what?

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

I tried to be polite there. They say worse things.

[Adrian Clark]

Yeah, Arsenal fans were always very nice to me, I'll have you know. You know, they always are when your academy player coming through. They look after you. But I think that's more of an issue at smaller stadiums, if I'm honest. I did find it tougher when there was. When there were smaller crowds where you really could hear individuals was describing something. But I gotta be honest, when you're down there on the pitch, whether there's 36,000 there or 66,000 there, it's kind of just noise and it's, you know, you don't. It's a good atmosphere either way. I do think the players in general enjoy having the steep stands next to the pitch. They quite like it. It's a better experience. Pretty more fun to play in those kind of stadiums. So I'm glad to hear Everton design sort of accommodates that. But, yeah, look, it's a cliche, but the pitch is still. It's green, it's got white lines. It doesn't. It doesn't really matter to footballers. It really doesn't. I just think the only. The only thing you get and you know, is Highbury. You know, virtually the whole stadium was seasoned ticket holders by the end because there was so much demand and fans were sitting next to the same people for years and years and years. Great friendships, great bonds around the ground and they saw good football at that time and the atmosphere was amazing. I know it was called the library, but it was great. And then you move and then people get split up. It feels different and a load of new people come in who maybe don't have the same passion that maybe are there just as tourist fans or whatever. And that is where the atmosphere can change. And yeah, it's important that you don't lose that passion that Goodison has got, I think, because it's taken a long, long time time for Emirates Stadium to get to that point. There was one moment where Henri, obviously, the king of Highbury, comes back on loan, scores that great goal against Leeds United where the whole stadium was. It was. It was so noisy. It was. It was frightening. But that was. That was years and years after they moved and. And I would only really say that in the last two and a half years under Michael Arteta, where the team's been brilliant, that, that the Emirates has felt like Home for Arsenal, you know, into us 20 years now. So there'll be a period of adjustment for sure for Everton, but success on the pitch will change it. If Everton can provide, you know, a cup success or, you know, great moments, great memories early on in their time at the new stadium, then it will feel, it will feel like home.

[Rory Smith]

So it's interesting the fact that Adrian says that it's taken a while for the Emirates to feel like home for Arsenal. I think the club have taken quite a lot of deliberate steps in the last few years to try and improve the atmosphere. I think they were really conscious of it, so they subsidised flags. A lot of the flag groups that you see are kind of work in conjunction with the club, which is fairly standard now. I think they've provided a space for the Ashburton army, the Arsenal ultras. And it's interesting that as teams have, as more and more teams have moved stadiums, I think clubs have learned the right and wrong ways to do it. So West Ham is seen in many ways as being maybe not an ideal kind of blueprint to follow. Spurs, I think, have been much more successful in doing it. They learned a lot from just the fact that Arsenal and West Ham had done it before them. So Everton have consulted a lot with Tottenham over how to manage the migration of tickets. And I did a piece Paddy alluded to earlier a little while ago about how fans were choosing their tickets in the new stadium because to me that's fascinating. You have a blank Canvas, you have 53,000 seats. What's the best one? Which one do you want? Like you can do, literally sit wherever you like. And a lot of them were saying that there's almost this natural kind of transition where, you know, younger fans, teenagers, people in their 20s who'd had to take whatever ticket they could get at Goodison, they are all migrating to, I think the Lower south stand, which is where the safe standing area is. Then you've got people who are a little bit older but maybe want to sit down a bit during the game, but want to be in the atmosphere. They're going to the Upper south. And it may well be that what you get is quite an organic and very rare opportunity to get light minded fans together in a way that clubs in older stadiums just can't do because it's too complicated to move season tickets around. That might well help Everton because it might mean that when you have that first league game that in the Lower south, which will be the kind of engine of the atmosphere, you've got a load of people who are 19, 20, 21, they're all a little bit tipsy and they all want to sing and that's kind of what you need. And it may be that clubs elsewhere look at what Everton are able to do in terms of generating that atmosphere and think we need to find a way to enable those types of fans to sit with each other. Other.

[Ayo Akinwaleri]

Thank you so much for your time, gents. Rory, Paddy and Adrian as well. Thank you for listening and we'll be back tomorrow.

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