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- [00:02]
Ayo Akimile
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James Pearce
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James Pearce
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- [01:24]
IO Akim
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, IO Akim. As the curtain comes down on Mo Salah's time at Anfield, how prepared are Liverpool for his departure and will it be another big summer of spending? Joining us for this one we've got James Pearce. We've also got Josh Williams, author of Data Game the Story of Liverpool's Analytics Revolution. That's where Salah might have done the damage to himself. You can see him hold his hamstring as soon as he went down. Well, you never know how many more times Mo Salah will be turning out at Anfield. All right, Salah went off injured in the win over Crystal palace over the weekend. It looked as if it was almost a goodbye to the fans. Could this be the last we see of Salah James?
- [02:15]
James Pearce
It could be. We're waiting for clarity. Certainly the the initial reports coming out of Egypt was that it could be three or four weeks and if that is the the kind of scenario then that really does leave it touch and go for that that last game of the season at home to Brentford on on May 24. Liverpool haven't confirmed that they they said that they're they're still assessing it but I know he was, he was down in the dressing room after, after Saturday's game against Crystal palace and I think if we've learned anything From Mo Salah's nine extraordinary years Anfield it takes an awful lot to force him off. So yeah, certainly concern you know from that moment he was gripping his left hamstring. We're just hoping, hoping that that isn't the end because it would be a sad way if that, if that was the last time he graces the turf at Anfield.
- [03:05]
IO Akim
Yeah, it would be a real shame Josh. You know much has been made of his form this season but you can't disregard just what he's done for the Premier League, what he's done for Liverpool, what he's done for data, the countless records he's broken. 257 goals across nine years from for Liverpool. I mean what a phenomenal player he's been for the Premier League in general.
- [03:24]
Josh Williams
Yeah he's been, he's been special. He's been I think the same unicorn gets thrown about quite a bit nowadays when it comes to data and recruitment and things like that but I think you can put salad in that bracket. I think he's probably, he's probably the poster boy really of, of the modern Liverpool and when I say the modern Liverpool I do mean you know, data driven recruitment, objective decision making, all that sort of thing because when Liverpool initially get linked with him he's got that tag rightly or wrongly of being a Premier League reject really. You know he failed at Chelsea and all that sort of thing apparently. So there's, there's kind of a little bit of something attached to that when you get linked to one of those players. And Liverpool thankfully were able to see through that challenge conventional wisdom, invest in what they saw in the numbers and it's been, you know, the rest is history really. I think Salah's evolved into such an output merchant, you know that the left foot that he prefers as well only 25 of players roughly are left footed then he's got, you've got the speed. So if you combine all of those qualities you do get a really unique player. And I think the art of, of using data to analyze players is usually it allows you to filter out basically the nonsense, the stuff that we call the noise and then you can focus really on the signal, the stuff that matters within the context of winning football matches. And I think that's what Salah specializes in. I think sometimes you might not be specifically attractive on the eye. Sometimes he can have a little bit of a dodgy face touch or whatever. But when it comes to impact and winning, which is literally the main thing, I would argue he impacts winning more so than any other, any Premier League winger we've ever seen as this season
- [05:02]
IO Akim
and the way it sort of panned out, especially at the top end of the season pre afcon and some of the things that he said, Josh sort of dented that legacy or do you think it's still fully intact based on what we've just spoken about?
- [05:13]
Josh Williams
No, I think it's been a. A messy season when it comes to all that sort of sort of thing like the drama surrounding the off pitch stuff. And I think it's had an impact on people's perspectives on Anna Slot as well. I think people have. People who naturally love Mo Salah have. Have then naturally fallen out with Arnold because of. Because of how he's treated them if he wants and he's put him on a bench a few more times and things like that. But I think it just feels. It feels very short term to me. I think long term. Once Charlotte leaves, any time his name is mentioned in years to come it will only be positive things that we'll speak about and rightly so. He's one of the club's greatest ever players. And me personally, the only player I, I've seen play for Liverpool that I would rank above Mo Salad of Steven Gerrard. And you know that's, that's. That's some praise.
- [06:01]
IO Akim
Yeah, I mean James would probably say Ian Rush because there's clearly a bit of an age gap between the two of you, but in many respects
- [06:10]
James Pearce
only 20.
- [06:13]
IO Akim
I'm only missing. I mean the player hoping was my favorite, Billy Little.
- [06:23]
James Pearce
He goes way back. Way, way back.
- [06:25]
IO Akim
I know I'm playing. I mean look, another player probably hoping for legendary status is. Is Alexander Isaac James. You know, it took him 236 days to finally get his first league goal at Anfield on the weekend.
- [06:39]
Ayo Akimile
And McAllister will hit it and Isak is there.
- [06:45]
James Pearce
Alexander Isak front and center.
- [06:49]
IO Akim
And look, we know how incredible a play he's been at Newcastle. It's been a while for him to get into his stride at Liverpool. Obviously injury based as well. It's quite incredible that he scored 44 top flight goals for Newcastle across the two previous seasons. And just three for Liverpool in particular this season. I mean I have to say I was a little worried Liverpool would struggle in many respects with striking options after I saw Ekatike pull off at psg. But this is a timely return, isn't it?
- [07:17]
James Pearce
Yeah, it really is. And it felt like a big moment for Isak. And you know what a horrendously long wait is had for it, for it to finally arrive. Imagine if someone had said to you on September 1st last year when Liverpool fans were celebrating, you know, probably the, the biggest kind of statement of ambition in the club's history in terms of spending that kind of money on a proven Premier League prolific goalscorer. You know, it was the kind of most extravagant purchase at the end of the, you know, the biggest summer the club had ever had in the market. Yeah. And imagine saying then that it would take till late April to see him score a Premier League goal at Anfield. People would have laughed at you. So. But it has been a torrid, a torrid campaign for him right from, you know, there were no real winners, were there in that protracted summer saga when he was trying to force his way out of Newcastle. You look at what's happened to, to Newcastle since as well, you know, he missed so much of preseason, so he wasn't fit. And then trying to get him up to speed, you know, he broke down a couple of times, he had a groin problem. Then when he finally looked like he was getting to where Liverpool and Arna Slot need him to be, he then, you know, suffers that horrendous broken fibula down at Tottenham before Christmas, you know, nearly four months out. And yeah, Liverpool have really, really, you know, missed that kind of presence at the top end of the pitch. And he's still got a long way to go. I don't think anyone would be getting carried away with that. He still hasn't completed 90 minutes in a Liverpool shirt and the goal against palace was his only attempt on in nearly 80 minutes. I still think relationships with the players around him are still trying to be formed. But yeah, he is going to be absolutely pivotal to, you know, when Slot talks about the future being bright, you know, it has to be built around Isak and Florian Wirtz.
- [09:03]
Ayo Akimile
Yeah.
- [09:04]
IO Akim
Josh, are you concerned about how few touches Isaac gets? 18 versus palace and nine in the 21 win over Everton. Does it matter that the number nine barely gets involved in the game?
- [09:17]
Josh Williams
Well, I think that, I think crucially the answer to that is what's the plan? I think, I think if the plan is for him to not get touches, then fine, great. But if he's not getting touches, he then should at least be getting shots. And that's kind of the alien Carl and dynamic at Manchester City. You know he's barely involved in build up play but when he is involved it's in the six yard box and it's probably a tapping. So you need to either be getting touches or you need to be getting efforts on goal. I think the problem with Isaac is we're kind of getting knighted at the moment. So if this is the plan, what we're currently seeing, I'd be worried. And I think against PSG as well, I think I'll add to that. I think it was five touches in 45 minutes. So he's definitely detached and, and this, this can happen with strikers. By the way. I think a few seasons ago Chelsea invested in Romulukaku and he posted I think the record at the time for fewest touches in a full match. I think he played the entire game against Crystal palace and he posted seven touches total. Tuco gets asked about it after the game and and Thomas Tuchel said it's sometimes like this with strikers. They can be a bit detached from your game and they're kind of on the pitch purely to finish the move. And Liverpool aren't are particularly free flowing this season when it comes to creating those moves for the guys at the top end of the pitch. So I think he's kind of. I think it's a combination of he's being let down by the system that surrounds him and the players behind him. But he also individually just looks like he's lacking sharpness. He doesn't look particularly fit, he looks a bit lethargic and things like that. And it's not the ISEF that we've come to know. I think people have short memories when it comes to this player. He's you know, absolutely brilliant on his day. He gives van Dijk headaches. Same with Saliba, same with Gabriel. So we know what he's capable of. But so far the first year at Anfield we just haven't seen it so far.
- [11:07]
IO Akim
Yeah. Can you just explain what that excitement felt like? We all saw this sort of protracted saga Josh with Isaac over the summer. Of course teams like Arsenal are also in for him. Liverpool end up prizing him away, he ends up having this standoff. But a player of that quality coming to Liverpool through the summer, I mean how powerful was that for Liverpool fans? I know the season's ended up the way it has been but in terms of what Liverpool maybe showed, in terms of ambition.
- [11:32]
Josh Williams
Yeah. Well it was, it was a statement as far as I'm concerned it was Liverpool behaving like a real heavyweight and I think over the course of my lifetime at least supporting Liverpool, that, that's kind of been lacking as far as I'm concerned. Like we, we see Fernando Torres go from Liverpool to Chelsea, we see Luis Suarez agitate for a move to Arsenal, we see Raheem Sterling go to Manchester City. And the only player within that neighborhood that we've really managed to prize away from a rival team if you want, has been Alex Oxlade Chamberlain off the top of my head at least. So to see Liverpool move arguably the best striker in the Premier League at the time up there, obviously with Erling Haaland, if it felt like a real, a real statement when it comes to almost shifting your weight about a little bit, you know, we are the champions. We're going to behave like in the transfer market, it felt very Alex Ferguson that the kind of move that Alex Ferguson would make. And as I said over the years, Liverpool have maybe been a bit too nice when it comes to that. And I spoke before about Salah being the poster boy. One of the reasons he's the poster boy of, of what we've been doing for years now is, is because of his ability to perform. Despite being a bit of a, a little bit of an under the radar target. We're not really accustomed to Liverpool targeting obviously home runs, you know, obvious hits and Isaac we all thought was going to be that. I still might be to be fair. But yeah, I was a big fan of, of the way Liverpool did that because obviously Salah's coming to the end of his time at Liverpool. We'd already lost Sadio Mane and we, we were kind of navigating what was going to be the next era and to do that you need, you need new poster boys and, and for Liverpool to go and get Isaac to be that, I thought it was a proper heavyweight move personally.
- [13:17]
IO Akim
Another potential poster boy is Florian Verts James. Look, we've said on this podcast the amount of times it's taken for him to sort of adapt to firstly the Premier League, but also I guess a newer style of football in many respects. But he's created 51 chances in open play this season, second only to Bruno Fernandez who's having an absolute stormer at Manchester United. You know, is he just now showing just how good he is but also I guess is he also showing the adjustment we're seeing? Because you know, he got a goal against Crystal palace and it was a well taken one as well.
- [13:49]
James Pearce
It was, yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he has kicked on. I always thought some of the criticism of him earlier on in the season was. Was very unfair because, you know, that stat about the number of chances he's created, you know, underlines. There were. There were plenty of games, you know, I think back to Chelsea away very early on in the season, where I think it was actually Salah who missed the chance that Vert's created. And it was like, if Salah tucks that away, people would have been going on about the assist for. For weeks and weeks. But of course, the chance gets missed and then it gets. It gets forgotten. So, yeah, the quality is just undeniable. You know, I've got no concerns about Wirtz. I think it has been at times a real testing first year for him. And I think you also have to frame that in the context of what it would have been like as a new player arriving at Liverpool last summer, you know, walking into a Kirby training ground with his grief counselors on hand, because people are coming to terms with an unimaginable loss. And, you know, imagine what that was like, as you know. And you also have to frame it in the context of. Wirtz is 22 years of age, playing outside of Germany for the first time, and also coming into the Premier League at a time when the Premier League's probably become even more physical, even more stop start more about set plays. And he's kind of the antithesis of that really in terms of his frame and. And the skill and the quality on the ball that he possesses. So I think Liverpool had him on a real extensive gym program to try and get him to bulk up and put on more muscle, because I think at times he has been bullied in matches. But he's also shown flashes of why Liverpool had to fight so hard to get him. Josh mentioned before about statements of ambition in the market. Well, Wirtz was a huge one. Bayern Munich aren't used to missing out. Bayern Munich think they have a divine right to, you know, the. The best young German talent at other clubs to cherry pick. And yet, you know, Manchester City wanted Wirtz as well, but he chose Liverpool off the back of those amazing scenes when they won the Premier League. So. So, yeah, I'd say seven goals, eight assists he's got in 40 odd appearances is like, it's okay. And I think if he'd cost 30 or 40 million, then everyone probably would have been saying he'd had. He'd had a really good first season because the fee is so big. You know, that's not through no fault of his own, but it probably gets framed as. As a bit Underwhelming. But yeah, I've got no doubt that he will enhance those numbers considerably next season.
- [16:17]
IO Akim
Yeah, Josh, you know, talk about Isaac's injuries, but I also look at Florian Verts and you know, rightly or wrongly, I feel like the rhetoric around him is that, you know, he's fundamentally one of the key reasons why Liverpool haven't been playing well this season. It's. It's not really just him, is it? It's more of a systemic problem as well. And we talk about the Diogo Jota stuff. Often think about young players who come into the Premier League obviously with a huge price tag, but also with a reputation preceding the Premier League and sometimes the pressure they have to carry to represent a club like Liverpool who've literally just won the Premier League the season before.
- [16:50]
Josh Williams
Yeah, I mean if you could have picked the time to arrive at Liverpool, he hasn't picked the best just because of what's going on around them. As you mentioned, the Diogo Jota tragedy and things like that, but the upheaval as well and the decline of, of Salah, you know, things like that. I think Florian vets at his best, is a really. Not a really associative player, you know, a connector. It reminds me a lot of Femino, actually reminds me a lot of Firmino before Marian Salah where he. He wants to connect with those around. He wants to create these little networks. But I think one of the problems he's. He's encountered is he's. There's kind of a lack of pace surrounding him and that's one of. That's one of the few boxes he doesn't tick. And you could argue the player that he's complimented the most, the player that he's got on with the most has probably been Hugo, who is the one guy that has offered pace in the front line. But either side of it, you know, Gakpo isn't really that guy. And when he does get on the ball, he's quite predictable and stuff like that. Not really a threat in behind. Salah used to be a threat in behind, but I wouldn't say so anymore. So being able to play those three balls he's found a bit problematic and then being found in little pockets of space as well. I think Liverpool have had some issues getting the ball soon with a, you know, the loss of Trent replacement. Trent with a wing back who's essentially a runner rather than a passer. So when it comes to Liverpool being able to find vert and just unlock them by essentially giving them the keys to the team. I think, you know, we've been lacking in that department a little bit, but I think when I think what we've seen this season is essentially Vertus floor, I think what we've seen is just floor. And the numbers that James has just pointed out there, I didn't even realise. I didn't realize it was seven goals and eight assists. That's actually not that bad. So if that's his floor mate and you can picture what his best looks
- [18:33]
James Pearce
like,
- [18:36]
Ayo Akimile
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- [22:34]
IO Akim
Talk about Liverpool's playing style in in just a bit but James firstly let's talk about transfers. You know we've spoken about it on this podcast. Liverpool have spent over 300 million pounds on new recruits in Attack. Liverpool look set to be busy again this summer. James Mo Salah's position Is it possible to bring in a player of the quality of Salah.
- [22:57]
James Pearce
Yeah, I think it would be a thankless task trying to find a like for like replacement in terms of what Salah gave you for so many years because he kind of completely rewrote what we ever came to expect. You could possibly hopeful from a right winger in terms of the, the kind of numbers in terms of goals and assists. So, so no, I think there's an acceptance at Liverpool that they've just got to evolve and go in a, in a different direction. Certainly off the back of when Salah announced that he would be leaving during the March international break, you know, the, the people I spoke to talked about, you know, a key part of the plan was having Isak Ekatike and Wirtz playing in the same team a lot more often because even now they've only had 100 and I think it's 118 minutes together all season. Which is absolutely crackers, isn't it? When you think they were the three most expensive, you know, exciting signings the last summer. And of course with Ekatike now having ruptured his Achilles and he had his surgery in London last week, he started the long rehab. So that's something else that Liverpool have now got a factor into their kind of summer recruitment plans because you know, filling that salavoid was going to be big enough but now you've Suddenly lost your 17 goal top scorer and you know they've been loathe to put a timescale on it so far but you know, I think absolute best case scenario would be six months. So you're still talking about probably being without him for the first half of next season. So you know, and you've also got to factor into the mix. You know, Federico Chiesa looks destined to move on. You know, he's, he's barely featured in the last few months. You know, it makes no sense to keep him around. So you know, suddenly you lose in Salah Chiesa who was the other option on that right hand side and you got your top scorer Neka Tk out for such a long period. There's a lot more surgery that needs to happen to this squad this summer.
- [24:50]
IO Akim
Yeah, well, let's talk about wingers because Slot actually spoke about the importance of wingers in his system with the Athletics. Adam Crafton when he was at Feyenoord in 2023. Let's have a listen.
- [25:01]
Josh Williams
I talk about the overloads but that is only useful if you have wingers who dominate 13 months.
- [25:08]
IO Akim
Right.
- [25:08]
Josh Williams
So you want to overload the middle. If they bring just as many players as us. You don't have an overload anymore. But then you isolate your wingers on 1v1 situation and that is what you need. So teams that are successful at the moment and if you look at recent years, if you look at Napoli City or Napoli, a lot of money has been spent on wingers. Napoli has it as left winger.
- [25:29]
Ayo Akimile
Yeah.
- [25:30]
Josh Williams
The Georgian guy I believe. So if you want to emphasize overload the middle, which a lot of coaches want and me as well. There's also needs to be an emphasis on quality on the wings.
- [25:42]
IO Akim
He was speaking about Kvaratskhelia who was at Napoli at the time but now at psg and Josh, we've seen this guy cause absolute havoc to defenses one on one situations. Great dribber of the ball. Is that a big emphasis you reckon for Liverpool moving into next season?
- [25:58]
Josh Williams
Yeah, 100. I think it's a great quote by the way. I think that that line you could just almost repeat for most of the season whenever we had a bit of a difficult result. That kind of explains it for the most part. I think it's arguably Liverpool's biggest problem throughout the season has been the lack of wings. As I said before, Gakpo's all okay as like a second choice I think, but for the most part when he's playing every single week, as I said, there's nothing that says in behind, I wouldn't say Masters, those one on ones. And he's ultimately just really predictable and that's the opposite of what you need on that flank when you're engaging in those one on one battles. And then on the other side, you know, we've established what Salah is, what Salah has always been. He's been the guy to finish the move as opposed to being the guy who dribbles past two or three players, although he has done that at times as well. But I think if you want to fix Liverpool system, I think just adding pace and penetration on the flanks, industry against the ball and one on one ability, honestly it would solve a ton of problems and Isaac would maybe start getting your little tap in a few more shots per 90 and things like that. And that's something that I've been keen to highlight all season really. You know, if you look at last season, Arnold Slot's first campaign on Anfield, you could argue it was Luis Diaz's best season at Liverpool. It gets him a move to Bayern Munich and numerically at least it was Salah's best season at Liverpool as well. So the two Wingers that that was starting for Liverpool each week last season just exploded under Anna slots. I think that's what he gives you that that's what his game is about. Some managers have, you know, Antonio Conte seems to do particularly well with wing backs, for example. You know, it just. Some managers just have preferred positions, almost positions that they put a lot of value in. And it's always been wingers for slot. But this season the wing options that we presented him with have been Salah, who's now 33, Gapo Chies who just is never involved. Rio, who I think started the season age 17 and Frimpong, who is it was not a winger. He's a wing back as far as I'm concerned. So you've kind of set him up to fail. And I think that's one of the reasons why maybe Liverpool are gonna or look like they might be inclined to stick with them because it's been a collective letdown almost as opposed to just all being on him. I don't think the club have also presented him with the, the resources that he needs to thrive.
- [28:24]
IO Akim
Yeah, I do think about the great ones you've had at Liverpool. James Mane, Luis Diaz, I mean absolute ballers in many respects. I know Rio Ngomoa feels like a young player emerging into a great winger, but yeah, the Gakpo one's always really fascinating because a Dutch international, very good player, but often doesn't offer Liverpool that penetration they really need, especially in those decisive moments.
- [28:49]
James Pearce
Yeah, yeah, I'd go along with that. I think Gagpo has had a really difficult season. Picked up a little bit of late, I'd have to say. But yeah, he's certainly a player that divides opinion because you know, the criticism is always he's so predictable. But what I'd say is when, when he's absolutely on it, he's predictable but also unstoppable for defenders because when he does things at pace and doesn't second, you know, kind of question himself, he is a handful but yeah, too often this season he's looked like a player that's lost his way and lacking I think a bit of confidence and he's had too many touches and yeah, at times this season there's no doubt he's been far too easy to defend against and that the lack of pace in. In wide areas has absolutely killed Liverpool like you know, game after game, week after week and slot. As you know, he does bang on about, you know, when he talks about the low block, doesn't he? You know how you Break down a low block and inevitably that depends so much on having people that can win their duels out wide and create that space in, in behind stubborn opponents and Liverpool just haven't had that with. With Salah on one side, you know clearly a fading force and Gagpo struggling on the other. Rio and Gamoa they've got massive, massive hopes for but as we've seen he's still raw 17 so yeah pace has to be at the absolute top of Liverpool's like to do list in terms of strengthening this summer.
- [30:19]
IO Akim
I mean just there's some really interesting wingers out there potentially. Our colleague Andy Jones reviewed a few potential Salah replacements for the Athletic. I'm just going to roll through a few of the names here. Michael Elise, Bayern. Can I just say first and foremost that ain't happening. Jan Diomande at Leipzig, Ryan at Bournemouth, Malik Fafana at Lyon and Minte at Brighton. Excluding Elise, any of those names that you've.
- [30:44]
James Pearce
Why are we excluding him?
- [30:46]
IO Akim
You are not getting Michael Elise.
- [30:48]
James Pearce
He doesn't want to join a big club.
- [30:51]
IO Akim
Yeah, bigger than Bayern. I hear you. All right, all right. Yeah.
- [30:56]
Josh Williams
It's a shame that we can't get a Lucy because I think he would be my first pick unsurprisingly. But if you look at the other options it's interesting because as I said before about Salad being a unicorn with, with those, you know that unique blend of qualities the other guys, they have some of the qualities but not all of them. So I suppose it depends where you're willing to sacrifice essentially. Like Minte for example isn't in System one, he's worked on the slop before. He worked on the slot of Feyenoord. Then he goes to Newcastle I think and immediately gets sold to Brighton because Newcastle have PSR issues. But Min says really quick left footed and I don't think the output is quite there yet but the expected output is. Is quite healthy though it's all. It certainly was in his final season under Arnold Slot. So considering his age he might be one to watch. Obviously as I said before, Slot will have inside knowledge of what it's like to work with him.
- [31:51]
IO Akim
So does he give you that vava voom feeling he signs for Liverpool? That's. That's the only worry here is that he's a top player. But if you're a Liverpool fan and Mo Salah's walking out the door, is that the kind of player you're going? Yeah, that's it lads, we're good to go.
- [32:04]
Josh Williams
Well to be Honest, I think it's, it's probably safe to say already that whoever replaces Salah positionally on that right wing, you're probably not going to get him on the back of your shirt unless it's a lease, which, you know,
- [32:19]
IO Akim
I mean, yeah, James is still holding on.
- [32:23]
Josh Williams
So mate, we've, I've got my fingers crossed underneath the desk here but I think if it's not Alicia Diamonde would probably be my pick. But again he's, I think he's 19 at the moment. So yeah, you are betting on potential here, you're betting on raw qualities and I think he's got a very high ceiling. I think he could get to a really high level. But again, I think Diamande's best looks nothing like Salah's best. Stylistically I think Diamande is a bit more in the mold of air traditional winger, maybe like an Anthony Gordon or a Rafael or Bradley Barclay, someone like that, as opposed to a goal scoring guy like Salah. But it can still work if you've got a number nine who gets goals and that's what Alexander is actually supposed to do. So I think that's what it's about. It's about Liverpool mixing up the blueprints, you know, coming up with a different puzzle and scoring goals in a different way.
- [33:13]
IO Akim
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, James, instead of replacing like for like if it is possible for Salah, is that the blueprint fundamentally changes, is that you're not relying on this unic one star player to kind of get you out of trouble and actually it becomes much more of a collective effort in many respects.
- [33:28]
James Pearce
Yeah, 100%, yeah, that, that is the way that Liverpool see it and they, that, that is why so much of what they do this summer, players be brought in to compliment Isak and Wirtz, to try and ensure that they've got the weapons to be able to hurt teams in different ways because that's, that's what's hampered them so much this season. That too often, you know, the complaints from fans is the football has been too slow, too predictable, boring even, you know, in periods of the campaign because they've, they've lacked that kind of energy and dynamism and you know, Diamandi I think would, would kind of tick the box in terms of, I think he'd be an exciting signing, you know, decent numbers this season. I think he's got 12 goals and eight assists and 30 Bundesliga games. But the only, the only thing with him is you're talking about a real hefty fee for someone who's only had, you know, one real season at the, at the top level. So I think, I think RB Leipzig have been, been quoting 100 million euros. So what's that about 90 million pounds? It wouldn't be cheap. I did wonder whether we might see Liverpool try and go back to the way that, you know, you think back to when they signed players like Mane, Firmino, Salah. They were very much kind of like finding players who, who weren't like the flavor of the month. They weren't, they weren't attracting interest from, from loads of big clubs around Europe and you know, neither did they have huge price tags at the time comparable to other deals that were getting done. But you know, with the data LED approach they, they found what they felt was kind of untapped potential that could be elevated to the top bracket. So yeah, it's going to be interesting to see which direction they choose to go in.
- [35:17]
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- [38:01]
Josh Williams
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- [38:50]
Ayo Akimile
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimile.
- [38:55]
IO Akim
I mean we haven't spoken about Arna slot and we've spoken a lot about the players, but let's talk about slot and especially with the potential new incomings, Josh. And please follow on James in that surely he needs to have a say on what kind of players are going to be coming in to Liverpool next season if this style of football that he wants to play in this brand of football is to be successful.
- [39:17]
Josh Williams
Yeah, well it's a delicate one this sort of thing because obviously the more power you give the manager in this kind of scenario the more then you become wedded to him next season even if it's not going particularly well. I go back to Eric Ten hag at Man United. Obviously he was kind of a bit of a cut off points. Man United didn't take it. They then go and invest in a load of added VC players I think off the top, middle and six months later they're essentially rendered redundant because 10 high Gleaves and the fellow who comes into a place has no interest in them and stuff and I think they've been almost ostracized since. So it is a delicate balance. Not going to think Liverpool's model almost avoids that sort of thing whereby you know it's. It's Richard Hughes, it's Michael Edwards and whatever signing that's made. I think it's a case of regardless of whether Arnold Slot still in charge in six months, 12 months there's still players that Liverpool will get some sort of return from whether it be a sale in the markets or return on the pitch, future investments in terms of development and things like that. So I like to think it's just a collaborative, you know, all inclusive thing where, where everyone's collectively involved and Slot is maybe recommending what he needs to unlock a system but the actual player is probably getting picked by the guys above them I would assume. But yeah, I mean going back to what I said earlier, if you. If you're going to keep Slot in charge it's. It's very obvious at a bare minimum that, that he needs wide players who are mismatches for the opposition fullbacks that they're going to be facing. So if you're going to keep him in charge and you don't give him that, it's just pointless. It's. It's really stupid. So at the very least that's what will happen and then it's. It's beyond that. The other problem areas, midfield, right back, whatever it is. It'd be really interesting to listen to that combo to see if Slot is on the same pages as Richard Hughes. For example, regarding whether they agree that that's a problem area or whether they disagree and think that you could get more out of Curtis Jones at right back or you could get more minutes for Rio or whatever it may be.
- [41:22]
James Pearce
Yeah, it is definitely a collaborative approach. They kind of had a big reset at the end of the Klopp era because there was a feeling that. That Liverpool had kind of moved away from the way of doing things which, which was the, you know, the. The kind of structure when Michael Edwards was sporting director previously, which, which it was very much a collaborative approach. And then of course over time with longevity and success, Klopp became this kind of all encompassing figure who had a much bigger say. So it is, it is different now but, but still, still the, the fact remains no player will get brought into Liverpool that Arnold Slot doesn't want. You know, that would be absolutely nonsensical but, but of course lots of other people are feeding into that process with. We know that there's you know, a massive emphasis on data. So you know, shortlists will be drawn up. The Slot will have, you know, some kind of influence in that but he won't, you know, just pick, you know, three, four names. It will be, it'll be very much data led and the character references and all the background checks that they do do interplayers. And then of course, you know, it's, it's effectively Slot sporting director Richard Hughes and FSG CEO of footballer Michael Edwards who, who signs off those deals because he has kind of the overall kind of grip on the purse strings if, if you want. So it's, it's going to be intriguing. I mean what helps is the fact that you know, until the last probably, probably week or two there was a big question mark over whether Liverpool were even going to have Champions League football. And missing out on that would have had huge implications because we know that the way the clubs run the self sustaining business model Champions League this season was worth 95 million pound to Liverpool. So you know, I think Europa League you could probably lucky if you get 30 or 40 million. So that would have had a big impact. So they're close to wrapping up that top five finish. So that kind of gives them some certainty. But, but there is a lot to address in the market because obviously we talked about Salah and Chiesa probably expected to move on. Josh there mentioned Curtis Jones. Well, it was a big question mark with Curtis Jones's future. He's only got a year left on his deal. MacAllister at the minute. There's no signs of renewing his contract. Will they cash in on McAllister? Slok talked recently about sometimes you need to sell to generate money to reinvest. That's, you know, that's why Liverpool decided to sell Diaz last summer because they thought it was too good a deal to turn down. And then Joe Gomez has only got a year left on his deal. Andy Robertson of course, another legendary figure like Salah moving on. So you need to, what do they do there? Do they just bring back Simicas from his Rome, from his loan at Roma and use him as backup to Kirkz. Or do you go and sign another left back? Alisson is another one. There's Juventus wanting Alisson. Liverpool triggered their one year option to keep him until 2027 but you know Slot last week didn't exactly put to bed the idea that Alisson could move on. So yeah it was funny because a year ago you kind of thought this is a one off just how crazy this summer is going to be for Liverpool. But the way that things are panned out, this one doesn't look like it's going to be an awful lot quieter.
- [44:36]
IO Akim
Yeah, next season isn't just about new signings coming in. Josh. I would also say a big emphasis would be on the brand of football that the crowd at Anfield are watching and that has come into scrutiny to a certain degree. But what I would say is there are mitigating factors and we've spoken about them in terms of the Diogo Jota and various other things. Let's not forget on a Slot has won the Premier League with Liverpool. Surely if that brand of football changes next season and we're seeing glimpses of, you know, I looked at that Andy Robertson counter attack when he scored against Crystal palace that felt Liverpool to me. That felt straight from keeper on the off scores a beautiful goal on the other end. If we can see more of that, surely Arnold Slot deserves a chance to see where he can take this team.
- [45:21]
Josh Williams
Yeah, I mean I can, I can understand a lot of the, the concerns regarding the brand of football. I mean I've, I've found myself this season just yawning an awful lot watching Liverpool which I'm not used to doing. But I think there's a bit of a chicken and egg vibe with this as in what comes first. And I, I, I just don't believe, I've never believed that Arnold Slot wants to play like this. I, I don't think this is the plan. I think he's almost being forced to play like this because of the players that he's got. And it goes back to again, the chicken and egg thing is what comes first to players or the manager. Why are we playing like this essentially? And I, I think Slot's plan, I think if you were to sit down and ask him, I think he wants us to play essentially how we played last season. And I think any supporter who's had a problem with what he's seen or she's seen this season should ask themselves did I like last season though? And if you didn't, fair enough, you're just not into Arnold Slot then probably. But if you did, I think Liverpool have intentions to get back to that. And you get back to that in my opinion by signing certain players. Like. Like for example. I go back to it again. The attacking line of front line. The front line has a massive impact not only on how you attack but also how you defend. Liverpool have been criticized this season for not pressing enough but it's really difficult to press if your front line consists of, you know Hugo Ekatike who has struggled to last beyond 70 minutes Fitness wise this season and he's had no backup because Alexander Isaac broke his leg. Mo Salah who has never really been that player anyway and he's 33 years old now on the opposite side. Cody Gaspel will will put a shift in but he's ultimately just a really nice guy. I don't mean that as a compliment either. And you've got real behind him who is a teenager and probably can't do the industry in the run. So the front line at Liverpool of go have probably resulted in Liverpool pressing a bit less than Arnold Slot wants to. The midfield's been a little bit open as a result. And then going back to what I said before about the attack, you know you're trying to establish one on ones at Wine but the players can't maximize them. So I do think Liverpool's game will transform if you just invested quite a bit in in the front line above all else. And that sounds a bit crazy considering how much Liverpool spent on red FFC and ease of just 12 months ago. But I think that's where a lot of the problems stem from and I think that's why MacAllister has been managing wider spaces, bigger spaces and stuff like that. And it's because of the lack of protection from the front. Yeah, I think, I think Liverpool will hopefully get back to a more entertaining brand of football once the player problems are addressed.
- [47:55]
IO Akim
All right gents, let's leave it there. Let's see if live will do finish in the Champions League position heading into next season. James, Josh, appreciate your time and thank you guys for joining us as well.
- [48:05]
James Pearce
Catch you soon.
- [48:08]
Ayo Akimile
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beale with editing by Paul Iliffe and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free including including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [48:45]
Josh Williams
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Josh Williams
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