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- [00:02]
Host
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- [00:36]
Adam Crafton
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Adam Crafton
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- [01:39]
Ayomide Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, IO Akimolere Manchester United have confirmed their place in next season's Champions League. So what do the club need to handle being back amongst Europe's elite? In with us for this one, we have Adam Kraft and we've also got Laurie Whitwell as well. So we have to start with Manchester United's victory over Liverpool or Old Trafford on Sunday. A win secured their place in next season's Champions League. Laurie Great start by Manchester United. Flair, poise, all action. The crowd were in on it. A really good first half, to say the least.
- [02:20]
Laurie Whitwell
Started right out the gates, didn't they? 15 minutes, 2 nil up. And that's the kind of start that I think United fans became accustomed to, you know, under Sir Lerguson, and certainly in a game of such significance against a rival like Liverpool, it felt like that was the required beginning. It was explosive, quite muscular, I think, you know, sort of in terms of United wanting to dominate Liverpool In a physical sense and kind of go straight for the throats. It kind of reminded me in parts of the way that United used to go up against Arsenal at times and kind of, you know, just go straight for the jugular, really, rather than, you know, try and build into it with possession or whatever. So, yeah, it was an encouraging opening and good to see a var call go United's way more recently because they have had a bad rub of it. Maybe we can get into the minute details of Benjamin Sesko's fingernails, but in terms of, you know, they weren't the prettiest goals, but they were goals of real sort of substance and significance for United.
- [03:13]
Ayomide Akimolere
Yeah. Bring us back down to earth then, Adam. Those two goals they conceded though, against Liverpool. What was Lammens thinking, man? What were you thinking? But in fairness, it still shows. There's still a fair bit of work to do to see say the least.
- [03:24]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, it was, it was strange because they were just so comfortable and it genuinely. There were parts of the first half where you thought it could be 4 nil, 5 nil by the end of the game and they could do the kind of result to Liverpool that Liverpool have done a few times to them over the, you know, last few years. You know, think of the 5 nil, 7 nil, 4 nil.
- [03:43]
Laurie Whitwell
There was one.
- [03:44]
Adam Crafton
Was there a four with four as well? Yeah, I mean, the Lorenz one. It happens to. We've seen it happen to goalkeepers like Alisson, Edison at times. Like when you ask these goalkeepers to make 50 of these short passes a game and they have to be so perfect with it, they're going to make a mistake every so often and. And you know, he. He was doing it a lot in the first half as well. Those sort of short passes getting it received either by usually Mainoo rather than Casemiro, kind of trying to take the ball and progress it up the pitch, which I was actually quite pleased to see because I think it shows a development in the way United played that they're able to build up in that way. And obviously they got it wrong at a key moment, but they responded well to it. Lomonds didn't seem particularly affected after it, so that was good. And you know, they went on to win the game. So it was like a bad 15, 20 minutes, but they reacted.
- [04:39]
Ayomide Akimolere
Can I just also say, Michael Carrick after the match spoke about, you know, how Champions League looked at a distance at one point and it was something. They're not going to over celebrate that performance. But come on, this is not where you saw Manchester United at the beginning of the season. Adam. You know, I know he's underplaying, and I know the players are underplaying, but this is actually decent news.
- [04:59]
Adam Crafton
No, and I get why they say this. It's like, oh, we're Man United, so we can't. We can't ever be happy with being third. And it's a bit of performance at times that. That they go through, but they should be happy because this isn't a club that's been in the Champions League very often over the past 12 to 13 years. And the way that the Champions League is now with that league phase means that, you know, Man United are pretty much guaranteed to have games against teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona or PSG next season. And again, that's not something that's happened very often at Old Trafford. And that's, you know, that's an exciting thing for the fans, for the players. It does a lot for the club's revenues as well. I think it is worthy of celebration, but also celebration that means that they have to go and do what they did last summer again this summer. In terms of recruitment, I do think, like, even at the start of the season, I did think Man United should be. Should be aiming for the Champions League that it was never seen. It should never have been seen as like, this impossible thing. Particularly like when there's five places up for grabs and it looks like you can probably get Champions League this season with like 60, 63 points maybe, which is really low, you know, as a level to get Champions League football. Probably able to lose 10, 11, 12 games even and still get Champions League. So, like, this should never have been seen as an impossible task. But from where they were when Michael Carrick came in, it's been fantastic. Lifted up by Luke Shaw, Ahmad Away by McAllister.
- [06:30]
Laurie Whitwell
Kobe Mayo rattles it in under strengthen end.
- [06:36]
Ayomide Akimolere
Okay, we need to talk about Kobe. Mainoo. He scored the winner at Old Trafford and was the center of Mark Critchley's match piece. Actually, go read it. It's really good. Mark dropped that this morning on the Athletic. Adam, you know, I'm going with this. If Amaran was still in charge, there's a chance that this kid wouldn't still be at Manchester United. Does that just not just blow your mind? Because me and Laurie were speaking just before you jumped on about how he just embodies what being a young player is at Manchester United. He spoke about at one point, looking at the pitch, being a youth team player watching this game. And now he's playing this game and scoring the winning goal. Do you know what? He just embodies that DNA, doesn't he?
- [07:15]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, but he's also. I mean, you have that kind of, like, romantic aspects of it, but he's also just a really good player. And he's a player that, if Manchester United were to go and try and sign a player of that level and potential, would cost them, what, 60 to 80 million pounds, probably, given what the inflation is when Man United try and sign anyone. So that is. That is like, just from a financial point of view, it was always completely nuts, really. I understood it in the sense of he wasn't probably right at this stage of his development for the way that Amarim wanted to play. I think you then have, you know, that debate, we don't do it again, of like, should a manager prioritize, you know, what's available to him or what he imagines to be his perfect system, you know, as soon as he comes in through the door. But no, I mean, it's, you know, it is basically, as we reported last summer, that Man United would have sold him last summer if they got the right offer. What's interesting is the offers didn't really come, which I think. I think there'll be some clubs now. And I remember talking to a few at the time and basically saying, why aren't you going to sign Kobbie Mainoo? And some of them had a few doubts about his physicality, about his stage of development, not entirely dissimilar stuff to what Reuben Amarin was saying, and talk about some pretty big Premier League clubs there. And I was surprised by that because United would have done that deal probably at 40 to 60 million, I would think, last summer.
- [08:43]
Laurie Whitwell
You're giving them quite a wide margin there, and I'd imagine
- [08:48]
Adam Crafton
I'm being generous so as not to sort of upset fans. Thinking back about what the club might have accepted, but I think it would have probably been on the lower end of that. And, you know, even in January, obviously. I mean, he'd barely played in the first half of the season. I think when he had played, he'd struggled a bit as well, to be fair. But, you know, when you're in an hour and a coach doesn't really believe in you, that's hardly surprising. In January, he would have wanted to go on loan. I'm not sure United would have let him do that at that point, because they just needed players in, you know, in. In the squad. But it was all heading in one direction. And then, you know, Michael Carrie. It's kind of done that thing sometimes that coaches do when they inherit from a coach that it's not gone very well for, which is kind of. You just do the opposite of everything. The last guy was, to a certain extent, you know, no one liked the back three, so let's go and play with the back four. Except for 45 minutes against Brentford, Kobby Main is not playing. Let's play Kobby Mainoo. Bruno Fernandez isn't playing as number 10. Let's put Bruno Fernandes as number 10. Let's put Harry Maguire back in. You know, like, there is a bit of that to what Michael Carrick's been able to do. That's not to take anything away from him. But Mainoo has been a feature of that. And for Mainoo to basically score the goal that seals Champions League on the week that he signs a new contract gives a real sense of kind of completion to all of that as well.
- [10:04]
Ayomide Akimolere
Do you know what I'm really enjoying about Man United right now? And I don't say this lightly. It's Bruno Fernandes. It's Bruno Fernandes is fantastic. It really is. But also the Casa Mario Renaissance with. With Bruno Fernandes connection, those crosses in and Casemiro inevitably is going to be the end of it with a header. It's actually quite extraordinary.
- [10:22]
Laurie Whitwell
Should have had another one yesterday as well.
- [10:23]
Ayomide Akimolere
Should have had another one, yeah. Straight at the keeper. But I mean. I mean, you have to applaud that something's been added to this team in terms of belief, but also allowing players to play the kind of football they want to play.
- [10:35]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah, I mean, Bruno, it's been interesting, hasn't he, Bruno, he's been speaking quite a lot recently. I think there's certainly an attention on him being potentially the player of the year. FWA Player of the Year, you know, players player of the year, perhaps.
- [10:47]
Adam Crafton
Do you think it's a deliberate campaign by United to give him more big interviews to try and sort of push that around this time?
- [10:55]
Laurie Whitwell
A deliberate campaign sounds so. So aggressive, doesn't it? I mean, is it just, you know, a natural conclusion of him being very good at football?
- [11:02]
Ayomide Akimolere
And this is Adam Crafton's brain working right now.
- [11:05]
Laurie Whitwell
Look at him. I think you might. You might be onto something there, Adam. I think there's certainly no harm in him speaking about the game in such kind of intriguing and beautiful terms. He did like a piece, didn't he, recently with Opta, in terms of, you know, quite scientifically going through things. He's Done the Wayne Rooney podcast. But I think he's such a compelling person to listen to that. I'm always happy to hear more from him. But I think it probably does go in tune with this, you know, potential who's going to be the player of the year, because it is a little bit, it feels like up in the air. And more recently, one of the. I forget who it was with, but he was talking about how the shift to the kind of deeper role in midfield has helped his game in terms of being able to, you know, take the ball in perhaps tighter situations and understand how to, you know, move with it out of difficult circumstances. But I think he also, you could sort of tell from him that it was difficult for him to ping the 60 yard pass upfield and then try and join the attack as well. Whereas now those kind of movements aren't quite as strained. And he is just, it just creates so much. It's outrageous really, how far ahead he is of the rest in terms of how many chances he creates. And okay, it takes corners and free kicks, so that's a big portion of his chance creation. But even without that, he still tops the list. So, yeah, I mean, his understanding with Casimiro is incredible. And that is something really for United to consider in the summer market because, you know, those goals are not insignificant from Casameira in big moments as well. Can they find somebody that could replicate that kind of relationship that he's got with Bruno Fernandes and Bruno Fernandes himself, You know, I mean, he, he signed the new deal, didn't he, so two years ago now. So it's pretty well, you know, protected United. There is a release clause in his deal, but, you know, who would, who would pay that kind of money for him at his age now with the wages that he would expect? So it's an intriguing position, his future. It might be something that comes under a little bit of scrutiny in the summer, but I think he's had such a blow away campaign now that he's restored to his number 10 position and able to link play and put those passes in. Even his assist yesterday, I know he didn't actually get it registered. What, for Sesko, it was clearly a deliberate pass to him, wasn't it? So this is skeptical.
- [13:09]
Adam Crafton
I'm.
- [13:10]
Ayomide Akimolere
Look at him.
- [13:10]
Adam Crafton
No, this is insane. Like, how is that not an assist?
- [13:14]
Laurie Whitwell
Oh, you're banging the Bruno drum. Are you okay? I thought you were mocking me for suggesting so. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:19]
Adam Crafton
No, I mean, like, I mean, it's just so obviously an assist. Yeah, like he's headed it back across intentionally for Sesko. The goalkeeper's got a hand to it, but it's still gone to the player he intended it for. I don't understand that. I, I, when I first saw that it might not be an assist, I really, I just didn't understand it.
- [13:39]
Laurie Whitwell
Are you suggesting that they might have conferred with Thierry Henry and Kevin de Bruyne before deciding against giving him that?
- [13:45]
Adam Crafton
Another, Another deliberate campaign. Another deliberate campaign.
- [13:49]
Laurie Whitwell
This campaign's in all directions here as we reach the crunch time campaign.
- [13:53]
Ayomide Akimolere
Could I ask you a question? If Man United didn't get Champions League football this season, do you think Bruno Fernandes was to be there next season?
- [13:58]
Adam Crafton
Maybe not. Maybe not. I think it's possible if Amarim had stayed, to be honest, that as United rebuilt and looks for sort of more natural fits for his system, that actually Bruno might have left anyway, regardless of Champions League. And also just because he's one of the players in the squad that I think will always have value again. That sounds quite mad to say that, but I think that is the case. There's been a real, the biggest difference for Man United this season compared to last season has been the number of goals they've scored. And that, that has been such a problem the last few years. I mean, last year they had the fifth lowest number of goals scored in the Premier League. For Man United, that's crazy. And that was like I think 42ish. So they're now on about 63, 64. Only Arsenal and Man City have scored more. That's a big, big difference. And that's really what's enabled them to jump up the table because their defensive record is still pretty bad. They still concede way too many goals compared to Arsenal and City. Almost 50 goals after 35 games, which is like far, far too high. There's far too many games where they concede two goals. You know, over the course of the season since carries come in, it's got better. But you know, even in the last few weeks, you know, Bournemouth two goals, Leeds two goals, yesterday two goals, Newcastle two goals. So that's still, that's still a challenge for them. I think that is going to have to be, you know, when they think about how they improve the squad this summer, I think it's going to be all about central midfield. I think if they can really get two high quality central midfielders in, maybe three, I think that gives them a chance of narrowing that gap from. What is it at the moment, 15 points towards 6, 7, 8 at this point of the season and that again would be a step forward and keep you in the conversation. But you also have to remember Michael Carrick's basically been working with about 14 or 15 players for much of his time, and that's going to change next season when they hopefully don't go out of every cup competition after one game. So there's a lot of challenges that Man United are going to have next season and that's what makes the job and the decision about the job so interesting because it doesn't feel like an apples to apples comparison what Michael Carrick's experience this season to what he may experience next season.
- [16:27]
Host
This host city guide on the Athletic is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X Card.
- [16:32]
Host City Guide Narrator
Fans will be thankful Vancouver was a late addition to the list of cities staging matches in the World cup because it has the potential to be the tournament's most memorable host city. Whether on tree lined streets or a top top nearby mountain peaks, the crown jewel of Canada's Pacific Northwest offers a look and a feel that can change people for the better. Vancouver has a small town feel at times, as evidenced by how walkable it is. Locals spend hours being active on the beaches of the Pacific Ocean, in stunning natural parks, or on some of the peaks of the North Shore mountains. BC Place will be one of the smaller venues at the World Cup. It sits in downtown Vancouver, just a few minutes walk from the Skytrain station, with stunning glass buildings and mountains nearby and the Pacific Ocean as well.
- [17:20]
Host
This host city guide on the Athletic is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X Card. Venture X offers premium benefits like a $300 annual Capital One travel credit for less than you expect. Terms apply. See capitalone.com for details. This episode of the Athletic FC Podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental health Awareness Month and it's a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Because life is a journey. Some days you feel good, but others you can feel overwhelmed. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it out all on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers and no journey should be made by yourself. Having someone with you to listen, to understand and to support you can make all the difference. So this May, why not check in with yourself and understand where you are right now and acknowledge that if you're feeling stuck, anxious or unsure, it's okay to not be okay. BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy providers serving over 6 million people globally. Just fill in a short questionnaire and they'll pair you up with a therapist based on your preferences, needs and goals. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. Safe in the knowledge that BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the uk. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com fcpodcast that's better. H E L p.com fcpodcast. This is an advert for Mint Mobile. Now if you're anything like me, you'll like keeping your money right where you can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping you money. So if you're overpaying for wireless and fed up with sky high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run, it's time you switched to Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talking text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your own phone and number with you. Activate an ESIM in minutes and you'll start saving immediately. No long term contracts, no hassle. What's not to love? I switched at the start of the year and I'm saving money every month and I can spend that on my kids and I get really fantastic all round wireless service on top. So if you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mintmobile.com athleticfc that's mintmobile.com athleticfc up from payment of $45 for 3 month 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 per month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. CMINT Mobile for details Lately I've been more intentional about what I wear day to day, leaning into pieces that feel easy, comfortable and still put together. Just makes getting dressed simpler. And Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are clean and everything just works without needing to overthink it. Quince has all the wardrobe staples for spring. Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts from $34. Lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but still look put together and clean. 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt. Their pants also hit that same balance. Relaxed and comfortable but still polished enough to wear pretty much anytime and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than you'd find at similar brands right now. I am loving The Comfort Stretch Traveler 5 Pocket Pant in Dark charcoal. It's laid back and refined and good for the working day and the post work cocktail. And at just £49.90 and available in 10 different colors, I might just treat myself to another pair because I'm worth it. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use head to quince.com Athletic FC for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q Athletic FC for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com AthleticFC.
- [21:27]
Ayomide Akimolere
Laurie Adams led me quite nicely into the next section, really. We need to talk about Manchester United transfers.
- [21:31]
Adam Crafton
It's a segue.
- [21:32]
Ayomide Akimolere
Yeah, beautiful segue.
- [21:33]
Laurie Whitwell
It's an assist. It's oh, he's put it on a plate. Can he slap it into the back of the net?
- [21:38]
Ayomide Akimolere
Ayo like you just wait till I drop this one. Well, Manchester United only playing one game a week at this moment in time, but next season they're back in the big time, Champions League football and they're also going to be back in the competitions. But are they going to be equipped? Before we get into the transfers, let's talk about who's making the decisions first. Who's in charge right now for next season to make those transfers?
- [21:59]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, it's a little bit up in there, I suppose, in terms of the head coach situation which we can get onto. But that's the first thing, whoever the head coach is, you know, and I believe that Michael Carrick has been involved in meetings as we go along, so, you know, his input has been registered. Now will that continue after the end of the season? Jason Wilcox is obviously a pivotal figure in this. He's the director of football and I think certainly you've had choices made last summer that perhaps reflect the newer regime more than they did in Erik. Ten Hag's first summer perhaps. Certainly a couple of signings were very much club orientated, but you had 10 Hag's input as well there. And so then you've also got somebody like Christopher Vivelle, who is the director of recruitment, who will be a pivotal figure. You've got Omar Barada, the chief executive, who does have an input in this as well. There's obviously the scouts and the data team and then at the top of it all, Sir Jim Ratcliffe. I think he certainly has an idea about, you know, how much he would like, you know, United to spend on certain areas. So, for example, last summer I believe that he was, you know, a voice on United, going for Benjamin Sesko, going for a striker at that moment rather than a midfielder when they had a certain amount of money to spend. And, you know, I think he was feeling like, well, we need to get more goals into the squad where now you can debate maybe that's the, the right thing. I think you certainly want an engaged owner and the Glazers also are a part of this and I think their role really is more sort of sign off, but in terms of actually identifying the players and executing that. Yeah, you've got Jason Wilcox, Chris Favell, Matt Hargreaves is the director of negotiation. So he's the kind of guy that goes and talks to the agents and other sporting directors and yeah, the scouts and the people that are on the ground watching these players in action. And also the data team, you've got Michael Sansoni, who heads up the data department now as well, who will have a, a voice, I would say, on this whole debate. And, you know, the names are kind of out there, aren't they? A little bit. We can get more into them as we go along, but I certainly agree with Adam that the midfield will be the priority.
- [23:48]
Ayomide Akimolere
Yeah, I've got to say we still need a head coach or a manager, Adam. That's the biggest bit of recruitment in many respects as well. Like how hard is it to bring in new people when you don't know who's going to be at the helm?
- [24:02]
Adam Crafton
I think, I think it is. I think it's a little bit easier if the name of the club is Manchester United, because there's a lot of people who would want to play for Manchester United regardless. But no, I mean, definitely, you know, players want to know what role they're going to play and they definitely want to know if it's going to be a completely different system. You know, as, as it was with Ruben Amarim. That could have a real effect, but I don't think that's going to be the case. And I think they're going to go for a three at the back coach anytime soon. Unless Oliver Glassner somehow becomes part of the conversation. I think most of the conversation at the moment is leaning towards Carrick. It feels like they're sort of calling around a bit. They kind of have some designs on some of the biggest names coach, some biggest name coaches, but I'm not sure they'd be able to get them at this moment in time. And I think there is then a feeling of maybe, you know, Michael Carrick has earned the chance based on what he's done, might be proven wrong. But I think that's most people's instincts at the moment, that Michael Carrick is probably more likely than not to be the Man United manager.
- [25:04]
Ayomide Akimolere
Well, to be honest, Adam's giving me another segue into Michael Carrick, because I was going to come into it later, but we might as well just talk about it now. Laurie, you've written that he went for a cup of tea with Sir Jim Radcliffe. What was going on there? Were they discussing his future?
- [25:16]
Laurie Whitwell
I imagine you'd think it must, surely. I mean, it might be a little bit of a dance, right, where, you know, I was tempted because I asked Michael Carrick, because we were aware that Ratcliffe had visited Carrington after the Chelsea game, which was, you know, it's a kind of unusual thing. He does it fairly regularly, but I think the last time was January, when the Glazers turned up as well. So it's an infrequent occurrence, as well as being sort of fairly regular, if I'm not being paradoxical there. So, anyway, I asked him, you know, did you manage to have a chat with him? And I said, yeah, we went for a cup of tea. I think they literally did go for a cup of tea, but I sort of was. I held back on them, saying, well, come on. Did you not just say to him, give me the job? I sort of thought I might be.
- [25:53]
Ayomide Akimolere
I mean, that's the obvious question about, come on, man.
- [25:56]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, now that they've qualified the Champions League, maybe that's sort of, you know, come on, let's. Let's press it a little bit. I do think it'll get louder. I think it'll be an interesting thing for United to navigate. They. They're insisting that they will only make the call at the end of the season once I think they've had a chance, as Adam says, to sound out certain individuals. Now, clearly those kind of conversations, perhaps via intermediaries, are happening as we have gone along to this point. And I do think there's been some. Some desire perhaps, should we say, from, you know, people in the hierarchy, maybe even Ratcliffe himself, for a manager that has that kind of credibility in Champions League management, the pedigree, the cv, balancing a squad, because, as you say there, you know, United have only had 40 games this season. Once the season's over, that is a different thing to then, you know, managing 60 games and having to rotate your team and flying to Europe and coming back, you know, they've had clear weeks to prepare for these games. So that is a factor, I think, when you're weighing up everything in terms of what Carrick's done. But, yeah, I would have been fascinated to be a fly on the wall in his chat with Ratcliffe. I imagine it was kind of more, you know, how things are going, you know, not really getting to the nub of it, I wouldn't have thought. But, you know, maybe I'm wrong and maybe it's all been agreed and here we are just sort of, you know, talking over it whilst everybody else in the club sort of knows what's going on. Or at least a certain small circle.
- [27:08]
Adam Crafton
Do be very brave, wouldn't it, to go a different way, not give him the job. Yeah. I mean, given how calm everything feels right now. And the fact. And the fact you can actually imagine, well, if they get two midfielders here and maybe a fullback there, another sort of player who plays across the front line, that they're not. They don't feel that far off to then bring another coach into that with potentially a very different idea. I'm not saying he'll be wrong. I think it'll be incredibly brave. And if it was to go wrong, you know, given how badly wrong they got, the 10 hag decision to keep him, then the Amarim decision to hire him, it would be a big issue. And then you've also got that issue of, I heard you, Laurie, talking on the Man United pod that you do about talk of the Devils. Sorry, talk of the Devils, just to
- [28:00]
Laurie Whitwell
give the plug fuller that Man United
- [28:02]
Adam Crafton
pods you do, you know, do you want to explain why 2027 is a big year for Jim Ratcliffe and the Glazers, potentially?
- [28:09]
Laurie Whitwell
It's potential, isn't it? It's a lot of people that know more about these things than I do that have sort of mentioned this to me in that the. The agreement between Ratcliffe and the Glazers has a clause which changes in February20, that the Glazers can then sell their shares and drag along Ratcliffe shares for whatever price they deem is fair. So, again, you'll have to find somebody that would be willing to pay that price. So that's a big ask, I think, but equally, it does perhaps accelerate what Ratcliffe wants to do. So if. If he. If he's thinking about, I need to win the title with United or at least show that we're going to win the title. So the Glazers don't kind of go, this isn't really working, and sort of rip it away, then that is perhaps then going to feature in this conversation around who to appoint as head coach, manager. And it's certainly something that actually United seem to have. The players and Carrick himself have kind of warmed towards in recent weeks. So again, this interview that we did with Mason Mount his Make a wish day at St. George's park, he was absolutely emboldened to talk about wanting to win the title with United, and now that's one thing from him. And then I asked Carrick about that as well, and he said he welcomed that. You know, that's something that United should absolutely aspire towards. And so that's an interesting perhaps shift maybe from, you know, certainly from what Reuben Amory was saying, you know, when you think back to some of the points he was making about how United had to survive and worst squad in history or worst team in United's history and all that kind of stuff, you know, I think the positive message is one that fans certainly find resonating and. And can't. But the question is, can is carry that guy? You know, he's not. He's not done it as a manager before. So that's why there's a question mark. I suppose it's interesting though, in terms of, you know, Champions League pedigree. Well, he did win the thing as a player. So. Okay, I'm not saying that that then automatically means you know how to win it as a manager, but there's clearly experiences there that you've had that would then feature into your decision making. You know, you know about flights to and from different locations, you know, about pre season, how mental it is with United, how big it is, which was something that David Moyes was surprised by when he took over from Sir Alex Ferguson, for example. And also even as a manager, you know, he went to Villarreal away unai emery, 12 nil, made changes in that team and that got United into the last 16 of that tournament at the time. And then obviously they went out under Ralph Rangnick. But it's interesting. Do United think that this is the moment now to go and try and win the title, or do they accept that actually, maybe there's a bit more progress to make. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:36]
Adam Crafton
I mean, the other thing people kind of forget with Carrick is he was on Solskjaer's coaching staff. Yeah, for a few years as well, you know, like.
- [30:43]
Laurie Whitwell
And under Jose Mourinho as well.
- [30:44]
Adam Crafton
Sorry. And under Mourinho, so He has been part of Champions League campaigns. I mean, this is not like some new phenomenon to Michael Carrick. It's obviously different when you're the main guy. Your relationships with players become different, your involvement in recruitment. I do feel kind of comforted by Carrick from a recruitment sense of. I can't quite imagine him signing really bad players in the way that I kind of. With Eric Ten Haag and the kind of the reliance on the Dutch league that he came from, you never quite felt settled with it. Whereas with Carrick, I can't quite imagine him approving bad football players joining. Joining the club.
- [31:27]
Laurie Whitwell
He knows what a good player looks like, doesn't he, surely?
- [31:29]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, like sort of. When I listen to him talk about the kind of player now, I also felt that at certain stages, to be fair, when Solskjaer was there and there was then issues with the club failing to execute on the kind of players that he wanted. I think I do have slightly more confidence after last summer that this new regime at United can identify talent. I think they've also finally come to the realization that signing from the Premier League is important where possible. It's not non negotiable as you see with Lomond, but I think maybe at least, you know, half your business each summer probably does need to be taking the best from kind of the mid to lower table Premier League clubs because the level there is so high. But then, Lori, who are they going to sign? That's. That's all anyone wants to know.
- [32:15]
Laurie Whitwell
I thought your segues were usually smoother than that. That was like a sudden handbrake turn.
- [32:19]
Ayomide Akimolere
Do you know what? Let's. Let's talk about that midfield. Let's start with the midfield to start with because you know, there are names being thrown in there. You've spoken about people like Bilaba, you've spoken about Elliot Anderson, Oriel Tuameni. Also Adam Wharton, Carl anchor on Talk of the Devils, that other Man United podcast that you do. Laurie spoke about that Elliot Anderson Mainoo connect potentially being something he's keen on. What do you reckon?
- [32:44]
Laurie Whitwell
I really do like Elliot Anderson. It's weird. Sometimes I speak to people and they're not really. They're not really feeling it, but I don't know, I just think. Think his. Adam's sort of shaking his head. Are you not really feeling it, Adam?
- [32:54]
Adam Crafton
I'm not. I'm not as sure as other people on Anderson. I would love United to get a player who really controls the pace of a game. I think Mainoo does it to a Certain extent, but I think they need another one. I don't know. I almost think he should have another year at Nottingham Forest, actually, before he moves. That's not going to happen. Maybe, but.
- [33:17]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, it obviously seems that way. But then say they survive and then win the Europa League, is in the Champions League. Does he. Does he leave? Does Marinakis let him leave? You know, like, he's obviously a strong figure at Nottingham Forest. And they've set the price, it seems to me, very high. I mean, they're definitely talking over 100 million. I've heard a figure of 125 million. That feels way too rich for United's blood. Would Man City do it? Certainly. That feels like the direction of travel. But Rodri, you know, signing a new deal might have an impact on that. I just think that Elliot Anderson is a very skillful player and we saw against Aston Villa in the Europa League semi final that he can enforce himself on games. And maybe it's not quite the way you're describing, Adam, but certainly I think United, if they're going to have Kobe Mainer as the, you know, the midfielder that they need to find a partner for, it feels like compliment what Mainoo does in terms of the ground coverage that he gets. I think they need someone that can really get across the pitch, which obviously Casemiro, you know, can't do at this moment. So that's why he's kind of. I'm going to get in the box and finish off these chances, but I think ultimately they'll try and find a blend of midfielders that does work together. And that's why I think Carlos Bilaba is still, you know, a possibility, even though he's had a poorer season.
- [34:25]
Ayomide Akimolere
That's my thing about Bilaba. This is the season he's linked with Manchester United and he's probably having his worst season in a Brighton shirt. We talk about the shirt of Man United wearing heavy. Surely you want to see a player like that who's looking to go to Manchester United step up at a time where he's in that window.
- [34:41]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah, I mean, they got, you know, how much of United's pursuit last summer played a part in than how he started this season. I think is is one thing to consider. So, you know, there was certainly talks held between intermediaries, I think, over, you know, the price maybe. I don't think they ever really got to a place where it felt at all that they're on the same page, but I certainly feel like Billaba would have been, you know, up for the move, shall we say. So you know, how much of that has then crept into his game this season? I think he's had a little bit of injury as well. And so there's factors and certainly I can understand why people would be concerned or at least say, okay, let's just pause on that one. But from what I can tell, United have still kept an eye on him. And I think in terms of the skill set that he's got, they feel that it would complement. Now, do they then go and actually execute? Let's see. But I think he's still one. That kind of would be a genuine possibility. And then, as you say, yeah, Tchouameni. Would Real Madrid let him go? And then Adam Wharton again, clearly a very talented player. Different kind of player, right, to the ones we've been talking about already. So I think it just sort of depends on who, you know, who do you not get first? And then does that then trickle down into then who they get second and maybe even third. I agree with Adim. I think they will sign two midfielders of, you know, decent fees and stature. I agree with you about the Premier League as well being a fertile ground for that. Just because they know that this is such a key area of the pitch, can they go for somebody that hasn't played in the Premier League week in, week out regularly? You know, they sign Manuel Legate as this. That was the idea behind signing Manuel Legati. Right. You know, they sold Scott McTominay so they could have the finance to bring this guy in and it just has not happened for him and he hadn't played in the Premier League before. So I would imagine that they will look at offers for him in the summer and then that maybe means that they get three midfielders. Although I think they also would look at promoting from the academy. So, yeah, it's clearly the key area of the pitch that they need to address.
- [36:32]
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- [39:16]
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- [39:51]
Host
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayawak Molere.
- [39:55]
Ayomide Akimolere
What about Mickey Van de Ven, center back? Adam? That's another name that's been floating around from Tottenham. You don't look convinced. Again, I don't think it's because by anything we've said today.
- [40:05]
Laurie Whitwell
No, I like it.
- [40:06]
Ayomide Akimolere
This is good.
- [40:06]
Laurie Whitwell
The yin to my young.
- [40:07]
Ayomide Akimolere
This is great.
- [40:08]
Adam Crafton
Yeah. He's not been very good at all this season. This. For most of this season, disciplinary issues
- [40:13]
Ayomide Akimolere
have been all over the shop.
- [40:15]
Adam Crafton
He's not. He's. To me, he's not like someone who you would want, you know, in your teeth. For most of this season, I'm not sure. I don't know how much money United have.
- [40:25]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah.
- [40:25]
Adam Crafton
Which isn't very good for a journalist.
- [40:27]
Ayomide Akimolere
That's another point, actually.
- [40:28]
Adam Crafton
How much money Man United have to spend this summer. I think that's going to be really interesting because it looked to me like last summer they spent above expectations in the end, you know, when I know that in the end they sold relatively well. You know, certainly Garnacho Hoyland was alone with an obligation.
- [40:45]
Laurie Whitwell
So they'll get the money for Hoyland.
- [40:46]
Adam Crafton
Yeah.
- [40:46]
Laurie Whitwell
Once Napoli complete that. Yeah.
- [40:48]
Adam Crafton
But even with that, you know, they still. We didn't think they would necessarily do a goalkeeper last summer. Sesco, at the price that he was, was obviously high as well, although he's done reasonably well. And it's going to be interesting to see that was. That's part of my concern about Anderson. It's like, if you do Anderson, how much. How much else can you actually do?
- [41:06]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah.
- [41:07]
Adam Crafton
This summer when United need. United are in a position this summer where they need both quality and more depth. Is there any chance Marcus Rashford comes back to save them having to go out and sign someone in that position?
- [41:23]
Ayomide Akimolere
I think he's enjoying paella in Barcelona. Lads. I'm sorry. He's just loving his life out there.
- [41:28]
Adam Crafton
Yeah.
- [41:28]
Laurie Whitwell
But then I think that story's been told, hasn't it? I think just. It's best for everybody to leave that where it is.
- [41:34]
Ayomide Akimolere
Yeah, I think so.
- [41:35]
Adam Crafton
Why?
- [41:36]
Laurie Whitwell
It ended quite sourly with United, isn't it? I think there was. It wasn't just an Amarin thing. I think it was a club decision overall. And so I just don't know why you'd sort of go back there when it feels like that it's the end of that particular chapter has been told.
- [41:53]
Adam Crafton
I think I agree in that sense. But if it's going to be a situation where Man United have to subsidize wages significantly to send him out on loan and they don't quite have enough money in the bank to go out and sign someone who you think would really enhance that kind of those forward options.
- [42:11]
Ayomide Akimolere
But my worry there, Adam, is are you getting a player that really wants to be there?
- [42:15]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah.
- [42:15]
Ayomide Akimolere
Are you going to get a player that really genuinely feels like he wants to be back at Man United after having such a great season with Barcelona? Free flowing football, all that kind of stuff. Played some with some fantastic players telling you how much he loves the lifestyle out there. It's a, it's a tricky one to come back to that environment, you'd like
- [42:31]
Adam Crafton
to think, but he's had quite mixed reviews at Barcelona in the last few weeks. I don't know whether that's just part of Barcelona's negotiating strategy to try to try and keep him, to sort of give the sense of, you know, we'll keep him if we can. If not, not the end of the world. I don't think it's like it wouldn't be sort of top of my list of what I want to see at Manchester United next season. I'm just saying if it enables you to get two high quality central midfielders, the left back you need, and then a bit more back up across those forward lines while giving you a bit of space to rebuild your budget ahead of the next summer, is it. I mean, he's not the worst player in the world.
- [43:08]
Laurie Whitwell
I like how Adam was asked a question about Mickey Van de Ven and answered it with a. An answer about Marcus Rashford. What else? He's got two years left, by the way. Rashford, just to clarify, 2028 on his contract. On the Van de Ven thing, I think it's just that United are looking at the center back market just in case, you know, Matthijs de Lick's injury has gone on way longer than they thought. Lisandra Martinez has been out. I know the most recent thing has been suspension, but injury again, so can you rely there? Aiden Heaven and Lenore, they've definitely got high hopes for Heaven's Match. Been really good I think since he's come into the team even more recently. Won all three matches that he started. And Harry Maguire there is, you know, they've extended the contract there so he's good for bringing those guys on, on board and along. But yeah, I agree, maybe the Van de Ven thing doesn't happen, but he is a name that they've considered. I agree that I think they'll need support for Luke Shaw next season because, well, Tara Malassi will go anyway and since his injury, he wasn't the same player. So they definitely need strengthen there.
- [44:04]
Host
Yeah.
- [44:04]
Ayomide Akimolere
Let's bring this back full circle. Since Michael Carrick took over Manchester United, 32 points in 14 games in form alone, it puts them above Arsenal and Manchester City. So the big question, gents, would you keep Michael Carrick at the helm if the decision was yours?
- [44:21]
Laurie Whitwell
I would. I just think that you have no guarantee that anybody you bring in, even if they've got a huge pedigree, would actually do the job better. And I know that's sort of, you know, is perhaps a cop out because I think United would certainly want to feel like they're doing an aggressive move to, you know, really show their, you know, sort of, yeah, I guess, muscularity in the, in the industry, in the game. But they've tried that with Ruben Amarin. Right. They paid a lot of money to get him from Sporting and it really did not work out. So I think he brings a certain measure of calmness and pedigree and understanding and respect to that role that I think is something that United shouldn't overlook because United are a pretty unique club. I know that, you know, that might get tiring to fans of other clubs to hear, but I do think the scale of it and the kind of different, you know, mechanics behind it, you know, the politics that might be involved are something that is, you know, needs a special individual to kind of manage. And so, you know, I don't know if Carrick's definitely that guy, but I certainly think he's shown enough already in this period that justifies him getting the job for a permanent basis.
- [45:27]
Adam Crafton
I agree. If you think of like the ceiling and the floor, I think with Carrick, I don't think Man United are ever going to go to the kind of flaws that we've seen over the last few years, particularly under 10 hag and amarin, where you had some of those real extremes, you know, finishing 8th, finishing 15th, which is like completely. It's just not like, just not okay for a club of the revenues of Manchester United to, To. To finish there. Nothing to do with like the history and all of that stuff. Like, yeah, of course it's embarrassing, but just from a pure, like, revenue to performance aspects I do think Carrick will give a level of performance, stability, results, stability that make Manchester United a club that finishes in the Champions League again on a consistent basis. Now, everyone always wants to know who's the guy who's going to go and win the league for Man United. Well, okay. I mean, and that is a fair question and it's very hard to predict that. And you know, we've seen someone like Solskjaer sort of get close. Ish, but not that close really in the end. And maybe that's, maybe that's what Carrick ends up being. But actually for if Man United for the next two or three years was to finish second and third, that's not from where they've been in the previous three years. That would be a good development, to be honest. And I know that doesn't sound the most exciting thing, but like to have consistent Champions League football again, to get those revenues back into the club again. I mean, this is a club that, you know, the part owner was talking about going bust about 18 months ago. As I said earlier, it would be very, very brave and potentially defining really, if they were to take a different route and it was to go wrong. And I'm sure that will be an anxiety as they think about that. Maybe that's not the best way for someone to be hired as a thought process, but I think it probably is part of the thought process as well.
- [47:22]
Ayomide Akimolere
Yeah. I mean, for the first time in this podcast something you both agree on. This is a joy.
- [47:26]
Adam Crafton
No, we agree on everything. We agree on everything.
- [47:30]
Ayomide Akimolere
All right, Laurie, Adam, appreciate your time also. Thank you guys for joining us too. We'll catch you soon.
- [47:37]
Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aimee Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [48:08]
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