Tom Williams (2:42)

Check it out at the Sleep Number Store or SleepNumber.com today.

Simon Johnson (2:51)

The Athletic FC.

Ayo Akibwelera (2:54)

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akibwelera. Liam Racinha has signed a six and a half year deal to be head coach of Chelsea Football Club. So watch out. Challenges await him at Stamford Bridge and is he ready to step up? All right, with us today we have French football writer and broadcaster Tom Williams. We've also got later on in the program, Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson and Matt Slater as well. Right, Tom, let's get into this because in his only full season at Strasbourg, Rossinha led the club to seventh place. How is he perceived as a coach in Ligue 1?

Tom Williams (3:30)

He made a really positive impression in France. I mean, he wasn't known at all when he was appointed. There was a lot of curiosity about him. This young English coach with very little coaching experience behind him, but he made a very good impression very quickly. Really good with the media. I think that's one of his real strong points. He's a great communicator. But it wasn't just speaking to the media, it was speaking to the fan base and it was speaking to the players in particular. He got this buy in from the players really quickly. As has been commented on quite a lot, Strasbourg have the youngest squad in the five major European leagues, but he got them playing some absolutely sensational football. Really spectacular football. High pressing, high energy, lots of running at home. In particular last season they pulled off some fantastic results. They beat psg, they beat Marseille. They were a really formidable team. They finished seventh at the end of the season, which was their highest finish, or at least the first time they'd qualified for Europe since 1981 had they not lost their last two matches and there were two matches they should have won. If they'd won those two games, they would have finished in the Champions League. They would have finished third. They were that close to doing something really remarkable. Yes, he had a lot of money behind him, but taking a group of such callow players and turning them into such an effective unit was something that really impressed people in France.

Ayo Akibwelera (4:56)

Yeah, can we just talk about how Strasbourg fit into this sort of wider Chelsea multi club Model in many respects. Because I'm just wondering in terms of style of play, obviously we've spoken about the young players on both sides. Anything transferable in the way these two teams play that you can see him taking over to Chelsea?

Tom Williams (5:14)

Yeah, definitely. I mean, in terms of tactical setup, Rocinha generally played with the back three and wing backs at Strasbourg. You know, as we know, Enzo Maresca preferred a back four at Chelsea, but Salzburg's shape was quite fluid. You had a lot of, you know, players taking up hybrid positions. He was quite inventive in the way that he used his fullbacks, his wing backs and similarities in the way that Chelsea play. Building up from the back, real focus on possession and short passes. I think Salzburg are currently sort of second or third in Europe's five major leagues for short passes per game behind only PSG and Barcelona or something like that. So that's a real emphasis to the kind of football that Rocinha played at Strasbourg. Really aggressive, out of possession occasionally, man to man marking, very high press, very energetic. And I think if you look at the similarities in age profile between the two squads, Chelsea have got the youngest squad in the Premier League. Strasbourg have got the youngest squad in Europe's five major leagues. You need young players to play that kind of football. You can't play that football with older players. So, you know, on paper, there's no reason why Rocinha shouldn't be able to get Chelsea playing a similar kind of football. And, you know, he's very big on players enjoying their football, on feeling, you know, freedom, you know, dominating their matches, on being protagonists. And that is the kind of thing you would think would talk to this group of quite young Chelsea players. So there are, yeah, there are quite a few similarities, I'd say, between the football that he was playing at Salzburg and the football that Chelsea have been trying to play under Marasco.

Ayo Akibwelera (7:04)

Yeah, well, we actually spoke to him on the Athletic FC podcast back in October and I got to say he came across as a really interesting guy. Really driven, great leader of men. From the way he spoke, super smart, sort of down to earth character. He actually spoke about his management style, especially with young players. Here's what he had to say.

Tom Williams (7:22)

The beautiful thing about working with a young group is they're fearless. They've had no negative experience. So they don't go, for example, to psg away going, cool. I remember I came here three years ago, we got beat five nil. It's not in their mind. They're fearless. Having a young team has many benefits that fearlessness, that energy, that desire, that growth mentality where they want to go and achieve great things in their careers. You know, I show my players clips of Bayern Munich or Paris Saint Germain, of Manchester City, Chelsea, because that's their, that's where they want to be. So that's the way it works. And I really enjoy working with young players. But it's not about young or old people. Talk now about younger, old managers and modern coaching. It's not about modern coaching. Coaching and management is 90% people skills. It's 10% football.

Ayo Akibwelera (8:03)

Yeah, make sure you go back to October to listen to that interview since the announcement for Chelsea. Honestly, the comments on that interview have gone wild, Tom, and you can understand why. I just want to get a sense of what he does for players because we've spoken about how young these, both these teams are. Strasbourg and also Chelsea, where he's at right now from his Strasbourg time. Have you seen him incrementally get the best out of players who others might have said, do you know what, we're not quite sure about this one.

Tom Williams (8:31)

Yeah, I think it's one of the things that he's been most successful at. I think there's an awful lot of young players who've really progressed under his stewardship. You know, you look at some of the players who've left Strasbourg in the last few months and the kind of clubs they've gone to. Andres Santos hasn't really carved out a place for himself in his Chelsea team, but he was one of the best midfielders in France last season, you know, and Chelsea were very eager to bring him back as a consequence. Habib Diarra goes to Sunderland, Sunderland's all time record signing slots straight into the first eleven and eases his way into Premier League football. Dylan Bakwa at Nottingham Forest. We're only starting to see what he can do in the last few weeks, but he's a super talented player. You know, some of the players who are still there. Diego Marrera has really come on having been this sort of very talented but unproven player previously. You look at guys like Joaquin Panichelli who came in from the Spanish second division is now an Argentina international. Valentin Barco, another Argentina international. All of these players have got huge talent and we shouldn't forget that. Chelsea's backing, or rather the Blueco system has enabled Tasbourg to shop at the very top of the market for players in that age category. They have bought the best 18, 19, 20 year olds in world football in terms of potential. But Rocinha generally speaking, less so this season because I don't think the recruitment was as successful last summer. But if you take his Hasborg spell in its entirety, he's done extremely well at bringing in Young and helping them develop.

Ayo Akibwelera (10:09)

Yeah, I gotta say, this is probably why a lot of the Strasbourg fans are not feeling so happy about what's going on right now. You know, this is part of a statement from the Strasbourg Supporters Federation saying Liam Rossini's transfer marks yet another humiliating step in Racin's subjugation to Chelsea. I mean, there's always been conversations about the takeover of Strasbourg from the fans, and we've spoken about it here on the Athletic. But can you also understand their frustration at a point in which it looks like history has been changed for the club? They pluck one of their best assets away completely.

Tom Williams (10:41)

And you go back a few months and Mark Keller, the Strasbourg president, you know, he said, we are not a feeder club for Chelsea. You know, they are our big brother. We're a sister club. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. And since then, Strasbourg fans have seen Chelsea recall promising players from loans at Strasbourg. Okay, fair enough. They're always going to do that. But then they announced the signature of Emmanuel Omega, who is Strasbourg's key attacking player and captain. And then they take Strasbourg's coach halfway through the season. And it is impossible to avoid the feeling, if you are a Strasbourg fan, that your club has just become a feeder club to Chelsea. And this is an old club with proud traditions, with a great history, with a sizable and very passionate fan base. And they are basically being used as a feeder club by Chelsea. And there's been a split within the fan base over the last two or three years since the Blue Co takeover. The Ultras have been against it from the start. They have been refusing to support the team. You know, they've been sort of standing there or sitting there in silence for the first 15 minutes of matches, sort of officially on strike. There have been banners saying Bluco out. When the Omega to Chelsea deal was announced, they put out a statement saying that it was time for Matt Kellyar, the president, to go. And they've been very critical of every aspect of the relationship between Strasborgen and Bluco. Then you've got the slightly less involved fans, you know, the kind of more casual fans who watch the games on tv, who go to the odd game, who are enjoying the success that Starsborg have been enjoying in the last couple of years, perhaps haven't felt quite as compromised with regard to the Bluco thing as the Ultras. And I think the danger now with Rocinha leaving on the back of Omega signing for Chelsea, is that those sort of casual, more moderate fans are going to start to align themselves with the Ultras and are going to start saying what is happening to our club because it's turning into. Turning into a laughingstock. There are multiple layers to this. It's undeniable that Hasborg would not be enjoying the success that they're currently enjoying were it not for Bluco. That has moved them onto another level. And there are big historic French clubs like Strasbourg who are really struggling at the moment, who haven't got Toussaintime to rub together, can't even sign players. That is not the case for Strasbourg. But it's beginning to feel increasingly that in signing up to this partnership with Chelsea under the Blue Co umbrella, that they might have sold their souls to the devil.

Ayo Akibwelera (13:24)

Yeah. It has also been revealed that Gary o' Neill will take charge at Strasbourg. So let's see how that one plays out. Just a final one for me, Tom. You know, we've seen Lebruy come from Ligue 1 now obviously Rosenheir as well come from Ligue 1, obviously. The job at Chelsea and in the Premier League comes with so much more scrutiny than I would say in Ligue 1 based on where Chelsea currently are right now. Lebruy's done a great job at Sunderland. Not many expected him to do so well. So clearly there's something at Ligue 1 for coaches that's definitely really interesting. But do you think Rossinha, from what you've seen as Strasbourg has what it takes to deal with that level of scrutiny and maybe, dare I say, improved his Chelsea squad as well.

Tom Williams (14:07)

I think the fact he's such a good communicator will work in his favour. I mean, Maresca wasn't a great communicator. Okay. You know, he's speaking in his second language. It's not always easy. But Rocinha, one of the things that really sticks out about him is how easy is with the media. I think he'll make a very good impression with the media and with supporters, which might help to buy him time. The pressure, the level of scrutiny is something that he will not have had any experience of dealing with before. And you know, he prides himself on being honest and I think it's quite an admirable quality of his. But he's also sometimes quite emotional. He's got emotional on the sidelines and he can sometimes be emotional in his post match reactions. That's the Kind of thing that you can kind of get away with at a club like Strasbourg, but you will not get away with at a club like Chelsea, where every single utterance from the coach is sort of picked apart and endlessly debated in terms of his credentials as a coach. They couldn't really be much more impressive, I don't think. Yes, he doesn't have a huge amount of experience, but the kind of football that he's had his teams playing in the past is really impressive. And as you know, the Regis Le Brise example has shown us, if you are a good coach, you are a good coach. No one was looking at Le Briss when Sunderland picked him up. He'd taken Lorient down to Ligue Deux. He had a very good reputation in France, but, you know, he was not being linked to Premier League clubs in the French media. Sunderland took a chance on him and so far it has worked brilliantly. There's no reason why that shouldn't happen with Rocinha and Chelsea. I guess the difference is that because it's Chelsea and because there are different imperatives and different objectives, he will have very little time to convince people that he's the right man for the job. And if he cannot hit the ground running and if he runs into trouble, then he's going to find himself in a situation that he's never encountered before. But I think, you know, looking at what he's achieved in his coaching career to date, particularly looking at what he's achieved at Hosburg, I think he ticks an awful lot of the right boxes. So it'll be interesting to see how he gets on, I guess.

Ayo Akibwelera (16:07)

Yeah. And of course, he's taking his team from Strasbourg as well to Chelsea, so at least he's around known people to apply his work. Tom, as always, appreciate your time, man.

Tom Williams (16:16)

No worries. My pleasure. Thanks, Ayo.

Podcast Host / Announcer (16:21)

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Ayo Akibwelera (18:41)

Well, time to welcome our Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson onto the Athletic FC podc. I mean, wow.

Simon Johnson (18:48)

What.

Ayo Akibwelera (18:48)

What an amazing or interesting, I should say few days for you. I just wonder what it's like from your perspective covering a club like Chelsea. Whether it's ownership changes, coach changes, player influxes. I mean, the drama is always there, isn't it?

Simon Johnson (19:04)

Well, I know Manchester United try their best, but I constantly go around telling people saying that if there is a trophy to be handed out for most bonkers club in football, then Chelsea are consistently the reigning champions. I've covered them most of my my career. And just when I think, oh, they must have ticked every single box. I mean, obviously the Roman Abramovich sanctioned that. That's like the ultimate trump card. No one beats that. But yeah, I, I've. It just didn't surprise me that Chelsea became the first Premier League club to part ways with the coach on New Year's Day. Which is another thing off their checklist and certainly one off mine. I did lightheartedly. As I was messaging away On New Year's Eve sort of look up and suddenly the fireworks were going off on the telly. I just went, oh, it's happy New Year to me, isn't it? And, and I had. And I also, I joked with the, with, with the office sort of almost to myself actually because, well, understandably there weren't too many people about that time that do I get an award for being the first slack post of 2026? So anyway, that's kind of the answer to your question and I can see you laugh. I think you may have had a more fun New Year's than me.

Ayo Akibwelera (20:15)

Yeah, I mean look, look, they're doing Simon so I don't want to curse it. So let's just get onto Chelsea. Let's stick with it for now. But let's talk about Liam Ross senior, an appointment that's actually surprised Chelsea fans and actually surprised many of us in the media as well. But let's talk about the hiring process. Was anyone else in for that job as well? Who else were Chelsea talking to?

Simon Johnson (20:37)

Yeah, I mean like any football club there, there are. You're not just going to have. Start from zero. You always even sort of before issues with Maresca were emerging. You know, Chelsea are going to have a bit like the transfer market. You're going to have a list of names and you're just going to start vetting people out in case something occurs and therefore if it does occur you're in a position to get going and you're not sort of playing catch up. I mean some clubs fall foul of this and that's why you sort of see the shambles of some clubs sort of getting rid of a manager and not appointing anyone for a while. But yes, Chelsea did talk to other people. I think it's been reported that Philippe Luiz of former Chelsea connection there and done. Done a fine job. Flamengo was, was. Was one of them. But I was always led to believe that Liam Rosinha was and, and that's why we reported on the Athletic the leading contender and and for very obvious reasons. It's to sum it up Ayo in. In and I'm sure you asked me other questions but it's kind of a bit of a better the devil, you know is part of the reason is that they know this guy really, really well. So that means especially with a mid season change rather than a closed season change, there's elements where he's got a head start on things and when you have the schedule that Chelsea have that can only help him and the club Try and move on from what's been a turbulent few days.

Ayo Akibwelera (22:06)

Okay, well, I'm just going to read part of the statement confirming Rocinha's appointment from Chelsea says Liam has shown that he can build teams with a clear way of playing while setting the highest standards with players on and off the pitch. And we know that, that because we've spoken to him on the Athletic FC podcast. But, you know, the bit that really stuck out to us here at the Athletic was while there will continue to be a focus on player development, the club's expectations and ambitions remain high. Okay, we know he's a good leader of men from what we've seen at Strasbourg, but are Chelsea expecting him to hit the ground running?

Simon Johnson (22:42)

Oh, yeah. I mean, he's not been brought to finish mid table, you know, and I think Liam Rossini would know it's important for his popularity with the fan base. You know, almost first and foremost, like that is probably his most difficult challenge. But Chelsea still want to be qualifying for the Champions League and doing well in the other three cup competitions. That brief hasn't changed just because. And that. That hope for the season, which was earmarked to Maresca, and Maresca was fully aware of that. You're not just going to go, oh, well, now. Now we'll take seventh spot in a conference league, you know. No, I mean the champions. Important, like for. For any club. For the players, too. Like, the players want to. Obviously they want to play in the Champions League. Their contracts are heavily incentivized with this in mind as well, don't forget. So. So, yes, and of course, the player development element, I think that that sort of nudging on the. The fact there are young players in that team and more to come in in the future. And Rossini, of course, has worked at Strasbourg, who have got the youngest. I mean, Chelsea sort of go, oh, yeah, yeah, we're the youngest in the Premier League. Well, Strasbourg, it's kind of like, yeah, well, we can sort of brag that we've got the youngest team in the top five big leagues in Europe. So they even outdo Chelsea in this regard. And again, that sort of will help Rosinha, I think, sort of. He knows what he's working with, he knows what he's coming into. But the pressure, expectations, the. It's not the most egotistical dressing room in Chelsea's history. There's been far, far bigger ones as. As I'm sure everyone knows. But there's still going to be guys in there that will want to be quickly Convinced that he's the man for the job.

Ayo Akibwelera (24:26)

Okay, well, I'm going to spit out some facts to you right now, because in the three and a half years under the new ownership, the club have spent 1.5 billion pounds on new players and sacked four permanent managers. Thomas Huckel, Graham Potter, Mauricio Pochettina and also Enzo Maresca being the latest casualty. Now, they've obviously won the Conference League and the Club World cup in that time. And this is back to this conversation about wanting to see Rocinha hit the ground running. Is this overall strategy working? Is it realistic to appoint a new coach who's got ideas of his own, who still needs to conduct that to this new team of players who've just only weeks ago had an idea of what they thought football was like, hit the ground running and not allow him to bed in his ideas or even have room for error?

Simon Johnson (25:14)

Well, the key is that. So one of the main practices of blueco is. And of course blueco, the company, parent company, owned Chelsea and Strasbourg, as well as the women's team, and obviously the academy teams, is that they all play the same way. They all play the same system. This obviously helps with the players. So there are going to be players that have gone from Chelsea, Strasbourg and Strasbourg to Chelsea, and it is clearly going to minimize the. The impact or sort of like the size of the challenge. If you kind of go, all right, this is all very familiar. You're not, as you say, sort of not adapting to something that's completely alien. And Rosinha's the same, obviously, by me saying this, Rosinha has been playing a very similar system to what was already being played at Chelsea. I'm sure he'll have his own little tweaks on what Marescu is doing, but it's not this. One of the sort of justifications or explanations, rather, for the decision is that he is a system fitness, he knows Chelsea style of play, and therefore there's not going to be this, in theory anyway, this. This massive sort of, oh, you know, Rosin is coming, what's he talking about kind of thing. So that's it. But in terms of. Is the project working well, no one was asking this question about, where are we? What day is it? January 7th.

Ayo Akibwelera (26:36)

Yeah, 7th.

Simon Johnson (26:38)

No one was asking this question five, six, five weeks ago, after the Arsenal game, and everything was still trending in an upward direction. You mentioned the achievements of last season under Maresca. They also qualified for the Champions League first time under these owners. So I don't think there was Ever any ambition or sort of target to win the League this season? I think there was a recognition that the jump was still too high, but it felt like everything was on track. If Chelsea kind of basically repeated what they did last season, Champions League Qualification and maybe a Cup as well, I still think that's possible. I don't think that's. That that should be ruled out. I mean, you would think that the League cup, if they can somehow be Arsenal, is, as it stands, their most likely chance simply because they're in a semi final and they've only got sort of essentially two ties to win. I was there for 2021, obviously, when Tuchel replaced Lampard in January, and they went from similar sort of absolute mayhem to winning the Champions League four months later. I'll be very surprised if that were to happen because, you know, the difference in the quality of squad, the experience there, and also, with all due respect, the head coach, you know, Tuchel was already established as one of the best in the game and Rosin is hoping to get to that level. So. But I don't think. I know Chelsea fans don't agree. A lot of them don't agree that the project is working, but in terms of the targets internally, I don't think they'll think they're too far off it. They didn't want to get rid of Mareska sort of six weeks ago. This is sort of a very dramatic turn event which Maresca has played his own role in.

Ayo Akibwelera (28:29)

Okay, well, Rossini will be in a stand tonight for that game against Fulham at Craven Cottage.

Simon Johnson (28:34)

Ah.

Ayo Akibwelera (28:35)

His first official match would actually be Charlton in the FA cup third round match at this weekend. Do you think he's going to settle into this job or. I mean, it's very hard to see it from a manager's point of view or coach's point of view or. I mean, this is a massive challenge ahead of him. I've just got to say it.

Simon Johnson (28:53)

Yeah. Because the fixture list is so unforgiving now. It's midweek weekend till at least, I think, February 10th. And then there is the probable Champions League playoff to come in as well. So, yeah, I mean, it is a difficult challenge for him for sure that Charlton away, not saying that their progress to the fourth round is for granted. If you're Charlton, you're going to think there's an opportunity here to make headlines. But there could be worse, worse places to start and perhaps Arsenal in the League Cup a few days later.

Ayo Akibwelera (29:31)

It's. I didn't want to say it. I didn't want to say it.

Simon Johnson (29:34)

At least he's a big match. At least he's got Charlton before that. Maybe he should go. He could have gone down the Viali route, of course, if that had been his first game. Shout out to Jean Lee Caviali. Rip, Rip. Because his very first game was against Arsenal in the League cup semi final and he served up champagne in the dress room beforehand. I mean, perhaps we should bring back this old school way of. Of man management. Or maybe she'd loosen them up a.

Ayo Akibwelera (30:08)

Little bit before the game kicks off.

Simon Johnson (30:09)

I love that. If nothing else, maybe it should be brought to the press box for us all. Fatigues, worn out journalists. I. Although I'm not sure who I'm gonna at this stage.

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To say the least, you all deserve it.

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Podcast Host / Announcer (32:15)

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayawakamilere.

Ayo Akibwelera (32:19)

Well, let's move on and talk about how Chelsea's multi club model is working. Joining us now is our senior reporter, Matt Slater, Matt, Chelsea, the gift that keep on giving. They've also now taken Strasbourg's head coach. Should they be allowed to do that?

Tom Williams (32:35)

Well, that's a very simple sounding question, but I, I think it's a really complicated answer. I'm sorry, I know you want me to say yes or no, but we're getting into a really interesting debate here about multi club ownership. And I think it's a belated debate frankly for British fans. And even I think our readers, I think are a reflection of that. Because if you think about our readers, they mostly follow Premier League clubs and Premier league clubs, if they are part of a multi club group, will be the apex predator. They'll be at the top. So this, the type of stuff I'm going to get into is not something that's kind of upset anyone here. It's not upset our readers. And I don't think British fans in general have thought enough about the implications of multi club ownership. So it is no surprise to me that the first time this has really become an issue of a pretty big club. Strasbourg being absolutely treated like a farm team has become an issue. Chelsea are owned, as we all know, by blueco, Todd Bowley, Clear Lake guys top Bowley owns the LA Dodgers, among other things. The Los Angeles Dodgers have one of the best farm systems in Major League Baseball. And what we've seen here is Chelsea treat Strasbourg like the Tulsa Drillers or the Great Lake Loons, who are two of the LA Dodgers teams. Now the fans of those teams or Oklahoma City Baseball Club know exactly where they sit in the pecking order. They are the B, the C and the D team, if you like, of the LA Dodgers. They're never going to play in the same competition and they know that their players, if they're any good, are going to the team above. Their coaches, if they're any good, are going to the team above. I don't know what colors they wear, but I assume they all kind of wear white and blue. They would all feel part of the Dodgers family and they would all, I think, feel some reflected glory when the LA Dodgers win the World Series. Does Strasbourg feel that way? They don't appear to. Their fans, don't appear to. So I was thinking about the pros and cons of being part of the Chelsea family for Strasbourg. Now, Strasbourg, just for people, just to get their heads around it is the eighth largest city in France, 300,000 people, about the same size as Nottingham, Leicester, Coventry. It's that sort of club, that sort of city. Sorry. Quite a wealthy place. East of France, right on the German border and its club, his football team is that sort of level as well. Pretty. Their history is pretty solid Liga and they've only won it once back in the late 70s. But they've won three cup competitions in this century. They've had some decent players and a Frank Le Boeuf, there's one. There's a sort of Chelsea link. Olivia Decor. Yeah, there's a few. Papam was their manager not that long ago, you know, so they. They get 20 odd thousand. Their stadium's about 30,000. It's that sort of club. They came seventh last year and you know, clearly with blue coat money there now they did go bust quite recently, 15 odd years ago and they went straight down to the fifth division and they've climbed back. So you could say the pros, right, the blue co money has a clearly really sort of stabilized things. They spent a lot of money in the summer, more than 100 million quid. I think it was the biggest spend by any French club, which is quite interesting. They're playing really young players, exciting, exciting football. They're in Europe, they're in the conference league. They topped the conference league group. So there are pros, right to being part of the family. But there are clearly cons, right, lots of movement between the two clubs. 12 players in two years. And I think it's the fact that the best of Strasbourg is now clearly just going. So the one that really kind of, I think concentrated minds at Strasbourg, in Strasbourg, but certainly among their fans was their best player in caption Emmanuel Amenga who. Who is going to Chelsea now. They announced this at the beginning of the season. So everyone sort of, you know, I mean what a downer, you know, he's parading in a Chelsea shirt. So we've already sort of seen people who are upset.

Simon Johnson (37:02)

They're already.

Tom Williams (37:03)

They do a protest pretty much every game. No to multi proprietary, you know, which multi club ownership. They do like 15 minute protest. They lose their best player. They're seeing a lot of movement between, between the two clubs in terms of players sometimes for the. For the good. And now they're losing their young manager. And I just, I just think we haven't really reflected that. I haven't reflected that. I've talked about multi club ownership from very much the sort of business point of view that it is this sort of thesis, it's of the sort of one of the big dominant ideas. French football in particular is vulnerable to this. Their TV deal which I've talked about is terrible. They're very much the fifth of the big five leagues. The only people really interested in buying French football teams are people who are interested them as a multi club proposition. They, they know that France has a lot of good players. It's a hotbed of talent. You know, it gets you sort of into that market. There's always been lots of links between francophone Africa, so there's always been lots of great players coming through French football, that's it. And if you're, if you're the owner of a French team, you're thinking, oh my God, you know, we're losing money, the TV deal's awful. My only option really is to sell to one of these groups. And I just think we've got ourselves, we've wondered, UEFA, the French leagues, we've all wondered, we've drifted into this position of, of de facto B teams. Now some leagues have B teams, the Dutch, the Belgians, Spanish. But very importantly, B teams are not allowed to play in the top, top flight. They're kept apart. You know, IX's B team could win whatever it is, second, third division of Dutch football every year. It's not getting promoted. And I think, I think the problem I have with multi clubs is when they buy clubs of a similar size and stature, of similar aspiration. Now, I'm not saying Strasbourg are the same as Chelsea. I'm not Chelsea playing the Premier League. Chelsea won you Champions League. But Strasbourg fans are allowed to dream, aren't they? They're allowed to think, you know what, we could be the best, we could be a really good team in France, we could be a Champions League team in France. But there's now a permanent cap on. A permanent ceiling has been imposed on their aspiration on what they can be. And we got there almost with John Texter this summer, Triple 7 with the clubs they were buying, all of a similar size. And I think it's careless. It's one thing if you have a city football group type model. I mean, I think there are some issues there as well, where they have really scattered. It's sort of a kind of global spread. And the clubs they've bought in Europe, clubs like Trois and France Lomalin, Belgium are not going to compete with Man City and they're just not, they're not going to play in the same competition. But Strasbourg might, Strasbourg are in Europe. You know, Chelsea won that competition last year, the Conference League. It just doesn't, it doesn't sit right with me. So sorry, that's a very long winded answer. Should they yet Legally, yeah. UEFA have waved this through a while ago. That horse has bolted. But if I was a Strasbourg fan, I'm thinking, well, I know what I'd think. And I have a lot of sympathy with those protests. But equally, if Chelsea done anything wrong, no, the laws have let them do this and they are literally coming at this from, well, we run farm systems back home. Strasbourg are our farm team.

Ayo Akibwelera (40:29)

Simon, you alluded to it earlier in terms of the Strasbourg fans, and they seem fed up. Statements have been thrown out on how fed up they are, especially with this ownership structure. How do Chelsea fans feel?

Simon Johnson (40:40)

Still not entirely chuffed. There was a survey, a release by the Chelsea Sports Trust last night, which was Tuesday. You can see, I have no idea what day of the week it is at the moment. And they sent out to their members, around 4,000 responded in just 40 hours. And essentially the very, very vast majority said they've got very little sort of faith or they're not happy with what's going on and with the ownership and how they're running the club. Secondly to that, there is a fan protest being arranged for the home game against Brentford on January 17th. Let's see how that protest goes. There was a protest earlier in the year, before the nice run that Maresca had at the end. I think it was around the Southampton game at home that attracted quite a lot of noise. Although it wasn't massively attended, it wasn't sort of thousands, it was more in the hundreds. So let's see how this Brentford one goes. I think hedging my bets here, but I can imagine it being a bit bigger because as we're kind of already intimating earlier, it's kind of, here we go again, another manager and progress. What progress? Kind of thing. And then we heard chants of Roman Abramovich. Sorry. During the Manchester City game, of course, shout out to their previous owner. So clearly there's a growing frustration. I think it's not just about the football either. I think it's how fans feel. There being sort of ticketing issues. And what's going on with the front shirt sponsor. How come chefs still haven't got one of those, you know, things like all of this adds up the stadium, you know, the owner's been here since May 2022 and still waiting for some kind of decision on what. What they're doing. I can see, and I hope for Liam Zini's sake, that he's not the lightning rod for all of this angst, because it's not his fault that he's taken this job. Who can blame him, to be honest? I mean, what an opportunity. But I do fear that if Chelsea go a couple of goals down at Stamford Bridge in particular in any game, who knows Arsenal for you, Ayo, you know that there could be quite a vocal outcry in the stands. I was expecting a little bit more during the Man City game. Fair play to the fans that traveled to that game, they by and large really got behind the team and I don't think it's a coincidence that the team responded or certainly thrived in that with that backing. But we know what fans are like, you know, we see it at every club. The moment goals start going against them and defeats come then, then people don't bite on their tongues quite so much.

Ayo Akibwelera (43:35)

Matt, in terms of, you know, we've seen multi club ownerships fundamentally take players from one club and take them to another. But in the managerial sense, in the, you know, head coach sense, have there been others that have been, been really successful, for instance, within multi club ownerships where a manager's gone from one team and gone to another and that team has obviously excelled in the same way?

Tom Williams (43:57)

Well, I think really successful, you've helped me there because there's been lots of examples of it. But to say really successful. No, no, not really. I mean, look, I think there's a few reasons for that. One, multi club as an idea in, in elite football anyway is still relatively new. So you have to sort of look to the groups that one are really wedded and committed, fully bought in. There's, look, there's, there's multi clubs and there's multi clubs. Right. There's some. That's just a, it's a portfolio thing and they really, they're really not trying to do, do it properly. I'm doing the quotes thing there, if you're listening, not watching. Because the idea of multi club is, you know, it is sharing best practice, it is creating pathways for players and talent. It could be executives, it could be coaches, you know, so if you are leaning into that, then yes, if you've got a great coach at one of your lesser teams, absolutely, you should try and keep them in the system. You should encourage them and say, well, do you want to come to the, you know, the next one up? And ideally, if we've got, if our, if our showroom is a team in the Premier League, that's where you should all be aiming for. You know, our left back should be aiming for it. Our under 17 coach should be aiming for it. Our best ticketing and commercial person should Be aiming for it. That is the idea. These are like conglomerates and you know, you want to go work for head office. So Red Bull have done it a bit. City Football Group have probably done it the most and we were actually talking about it in our WhatsApp group last night and I and I threw some names of some of the coaches that City Football Group have tried to promote from their various outposts. You know, Melbourne and Mumbai and teams in South America and what have you. And I was accused by very experienced football journalists of making some of these names up. Des Buckingham, Peter Kratzke, Sergio Libera, Eric Mombiet. These are all people that went from Mumbai to Melbourne or vice versa or ended up at Toir or whatever. I mean, look, perhaps a better example would be Nick Cushing who went from Man City's women to nycfc, their MLS team and then back again. He didn't do very well at nycfc. They've tried it again with a Manchester City assistant, a guy called Dominic Torrent who went to nycfc. Gandhinsis. Well, Patrick Kosnobo is another one who I think went from Melbourne to Melbourne Women or maybe other way around. And then TWA and Yokohoma. Look, none of these people have been smashed, you know, they've not been the next Pep Guardiola, have they? So does it work? Can it work? Yeah, maybe. It hasn't really worked yet. Liam Rossini could be, could, could be amazing. I, I, you know, I hear him read great things. So maybe, maybe this is the one. The theory's fine. It just, it just hasn't really happened yet.

Ayo Akibwelera (46:44)

So should we be looking at Gary o' Neill as the next Chelsea manager at some point if it doesn't work out for a senior?

Tom Williams (46:49)

Yeah, perhaps, yeah. The funny thing is there are some multi club groups, slightly controversial ones now because they didn't do so well, who definitely were thinking about like coaching talent progression. So Pacific Media Group Group, Paul Conway, you know, Barnsley, Ostends, then Bosch Tune loads of other clubs, I can't remember, they didn't do so much with their own coaches but they, they absolutely were targeting youth coaches from places like Red Bull. So it's, you know, Gerhard Struber and some of the other guys they hired, they, they liked them because they wanted to play football that way and they wanted to develop young talent. They were going to go young, they were going to go high energy, pressing. So they were quite happy to hire an under 18, under 19 coach who might not have done any senior football whatsoever because they were like but that's exactly the type of coach we want. And then they were also quite happy when bigger clubs outside their group tried to poach their managers. They were like, yeah, a manager, a coach to us is an asset in the same way a player is. So we'll take a compensation fee. Yeah, didn't really work out for them either.

Ayo Akibwelera (47:57)

Okay. I'm just thinking about Rossinho and who's sort of looking to benefit from his appointment at Chelsea. Tom Williams spoke about Andre Santos, how he excelled under Rossinho at Strasbourg. I also think about a player like Garnacho, who's still quite early in his tenure at Chelsea, looks like he's hit the ground running to a certain degree. You know, that kind of man. Management with a player like that, you know, and in a safe environment and a guy that knows how to talk to young players can only be really interesting for him.

Simon Johnson (48:24)

Look, I think. I think undoubtedly there's players in that dressing room that whenever a manager leaves will be thinking, great, you know, this is now an opportunity for me to play more football. There were sort of players that you can look at and think I'm not risky. Was sending a pretty strong signal. He didn't fancy them. Andres Santos, you have to question my opinion. One of them, I mean, I thought he was ridiculously underused, especially given the issues that Casado and Fernandez and the huge mileage in their legs as well as the knocks they're carrying going through. But Josh Ashinpong not. Not played that much, which is strange with Levi Colwill being out for the season. Albeit, you know, Josh Ashipong is right, is more associated with the right hand side of defence. You got Joao Hatto, speaking of left side of defense, a summer signing. We actually got to see him a bit on Sunday coming off the bench in a huge game, caused Cucurella injured. But it's not just about these guys. It's about the guys also to come. Ayo, you know, you've got at Strasbourg right now Emega, the signing that has already been been secured for the summer. Essentially just after the last summer window had finished. He. He's played under A Xenia. Of course you've got Mike Penders who's currently on loan from Chelsea at Strasbourg, who's tipped to be the next Thibaut Courtois. And my word, would Chelsea hope that comes true. You've got Mamadou Sar, who Chelsea signed last year, then loaned back to Strasbourg again, someone that's played under. Under Rosinha. So I think Kendrick Paez, I think there might be people getting excited about him, but he's actually been left out the team quite a bit by Rosinha. So I think we can say that his card has been marked as far as next season is concerned. I don't think that's, that's likely to happen. I think he'll probably be loaned out elsewhere again. So there are, there are sort of, there are going to be some winners for sure from the change of head coach, but at the same time there's going to be players in that dressroom. They won't say it openly of course, but I'm sure there's going to be players in there that are going to be like, right, what's this guy all about? You know, we're used to challenging for, whether it be with Chelsea or somewhere else, you know, sort of big trophies, they've got ambitions. But I really do like the way Rosin has come across so far. He does articulate himself very, very well and all the noises coming out of Strasbourg is that he was grateful, great as a man manager. The challenge is doing that in a Chelsea dressroom when there's far more scrutiny on every single result.

Ayo Akibwelera (51:01)

Okay, Simon, Matt, appreciate your time. I'm sure we'll be back here at some point in the next couple of months. Thanks for joining us.

Podcast Host / Announcer (51:10)

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