How will Trump impact football in the U.S.?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast: "How will Trump impact football in the U.S.?" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: January 23, 2025
Hosted by: Ayo Akinwolere
Guests: Felipe Cardenas (Atlanta and Burlington, Vermont), Meg Linehan (Women's Sports Lead), Adam Crafton (Joining later from New York), Will

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Athletic FC Podcast, host Ayo Akinwolere delves into the multifaceted impact of former President Donald Trump on the landscape of soccer (football) in the United States. With both the FIFA Club World Cup and the 2026 FIFA World Cup set to take place in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, the discussion explores Trump's policies, relationships, and the broader implications for American soccer.

Trump's Influence on Major Tournaments

Felipe Cardenas initiates the conversation by assessing Trump's potential impact on upcoming tournaments. He suggests a cautious "wait and see" approach, noting Trump's historical lack of direct association with football. However, Cardenas highlights the intertwining relationships between Trump, FIFA President Gianni Infantino, and Saudi Arabia, projecting that these connections could shape the sport's future in the U.S.

"If there's an opportunity for him to find a way to make money off of something or link himself to something that is lucrative, that's going to happen."
— Felipe Cardenas [04:20]

Cardenas also touches upon the geopolitical tensions between the U.S. and Mexico, co-hosts of the 2026 World Cup, emphasizing how these relations could add an additional layer of complexity to the tournament.

Impact on Women's Sports

Transitioning to women's soccer, Ayo raises concerns about Trump's proposed policies, specifically his stance on excluding men from women's sports. Meg Linehan responds by reflecting on the tumultuous relationship between Trump and the U.S. Women's National Team (USWNT), particularly following the 2019 World Cup and the ensuing equal pay dispute.

"The league did not intervene to say, here's what is true. There are no rules being broken in this league. She is able to play. She is eligible to play. We have no problem with her. We stand by our player."
— Meg Linehan [06:39]

Linehan underscores the fragility of the NWSL's policies in the face of Trump's broader policies on gender and sexuality, suggesting that upcoming issues related to transgender players and women's rights will further test the league's values.

Legacy of the World Cup in the United States

Ayo prompts discussion on the legacy of hosting the World Cup, questioning whether the tournament will catalyze soccer's mainstream growth in the U.S. Felipe Cardenas expresses skepticism, noting that past events like the 1994 World Cup failed to sustain soccer's popularity despite infrastructure investments.

"It might just be to what we discussed, a major, major event in the United States where people get rich, where it's a major tournament. It's the first time 48 teams are going to be there. That's going to be the focus."
— Felipe Cardenas [32:42]

Cardenas also brings attention to Trump's executive policies, such as the removal of birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants, and how these could adversely affect the diversity and development of the U.S. national teams in the long run.

Influence on MLS and U.S. Soccer Growth

In evaluating the Major League Soccer (MLS), Will discusses the league's current challenges, including low television viewership and limited betting engagement compared to other soccer leagues.

"The domestic league in the United States was the 9th most betted on soccer league."
— Will [36:57]

He criticizes MLS for not capitalizing on the World Cup momentum to enhance its national footprint, suggesting that without strategic investments and effective marketing, MLS may remain relegated to a lower tier in American sports culture.

Felipe Cardenas echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that while attendance is robust in local markets, the lack of national media coverage hinders the league's growth.

"Media issue that MLS has at the moment that people aren't watching it."
— Felipe Cardenas [36:27]

Relationships Between Trump, FIFA, and Infantino

A significant portion of the episode explores the intricate relationships between Trump, Gianni Infantino, and influential business figures like Jared Kushner. Will elaborates on Infantino's adept political maneuvering, comparing his relationship with Trump to Infantino's past interactions with Vladimir Putin during the 2018 World Cup in Russia.

"Infantino being in a strong relationship with the leader of a country that is hosting an event is not a new phenomenon."
— Will [22:17]

Felipe Cardenas delves deeper into the alliance, highlighting Infantino's long-term strategies to secure favorable conditions for hosting major tournaments and the mutual benefits derived from aligning with Trump's platform.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Ayo and his guests acknowledging the uncertain and dynamic nature of Trump's influence on U.S. soccer. While significant challenges loom—ranging from policy-driven impacts on women's sports and immigration to the structural growth of MLS—the overarching sentiment is one of cautious observation.

"It's wait and see. You know, I don't link the growth of football in the United States to a politician or to who the president and head of state is. I mean, that's just never been the case."
— Felipe Cardenas [32:42]

The discussion underscores that while Trump's policies and relationships have the potential to shape the trajectory of soccer in America, the sport's inherent growth struggles and cultural positioning within the U.S. sports ecosystem present formidable obstacles.

Key Takeaways

• Political Interference: Trump's presidency, coupled with his relationships with FIFA and Infantino, could significantly influence the organization and success of major tournaments in the U.S.

• Women's Sports Vulnerability: Policies targeting women's sports may undermine the progress and safety of female athletes, particularly in the NWSL and USWNT.

• MLS Challenges: Limited media exposure and engagement are critical barriers preventing MLS from achieving mainstream acceptance in the American sports hierarchy.

• Legacy Concerns: Hosting the World Cup presents both opportunities and risks, with Trump's policies potentially hindering the long-term growth and diversity of soccer in the U.S.

---

This comprehensive exploration by The Athletic FC Podcast offers listeners an in-depth analysis of the intersection between politics and sports, particularly how Donald Trump's administration could leave an indelible mark on the future of football in the United States.

Transcript

[Anthony Mackie]

This episode is brought to you by Marvel Studios. Captain Brave New World, starring Anthony Mackie as Captain America and Harrison Ford as President Ross. Don't miss the explosive return of Captain America as Sam Wilson uncovers a mysterious plot that threatens to destabilize the globe and confront an enemy that has the entire world seeing red. Enter a brave new world in IMAX in 3D on February 14th.

[Allstate Representative]

This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Factor Representative]

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook meat. Factor your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating. Your goals factor is dietitian approved, chef prepared and you plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with factor. Learn [e-mail].

[Allstate Representative]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Amongst the tech billionaires, cabinet nominees and former leaders as Donald Trump was sworn in as US President was the most powerful man in football, FIFA President Gianni Infantino. So with both the Club World cup and World cup taking place in the USA in the next 18 months, what impact will Trump and his policies have on football over the next four years? Here with us today we have the athletics Felipe Cardenas in Atlanta and in Burlington, Vermont, women's sports lead Meg Linehan as well. Later on, Adam Crafton will be joining us from New York. Guys, let's get into this because hot news. President Trump once again is president of the United States. And Felipe, we know both the FIFA Club World cup will be happening this summer and also the World cup in 2026 which is co hosted with Canada and Mexico. In your eyes, what influence do you think Donald Trump is going to have on these tournaments as the president of the United States?

[Felipe Cardenas]

I think it's wait and see. You know, there isn't a clear association with Donald Trump unless you go really deep into his history or his Wikipedia and you find something where he's had some sort of association with. With football. You know, I know there. There are some reports popping up now close to the 1994 World cup and some of the influence there, but I don't think we know yet because it still feels like a foreign international sport. When, when we hit the mainstream in the United States and we all cover it, we live it. To us, it's just. It's what we talk about, it's what we write about. Football is. Is the global sport, but when we get to a point where we're going, where the US Is going to host a major tournament, that's when the sport seems to sort of fall into these little cracks of like, do people really care? What is the influence? I think Donald Trump think we know what he values. And if there's an opportunity for him to find a way to make money off of something or link himself to something that is lucrative, that's going to happen. As we all know, everyone that's listening to this podcast knows that, you know, that that is the business of football. It is a very lucrative sport. Think from now 2026, the next World cup, through to the 2034 World cup, which is going to be in Saudi Arabia. If you don't know about the relationship between the Saudis and the Trump Organization, we're going to find out about it. I think the world of football knows plenty about Gianni and Fantina's relationship with Saudi Arabia. And now we see him cozying up with Donald Trump. I think those three parties are going to be aligned, you know, for the next decade or so. And so I think that's the influence Will.

[Will]

Will.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Will people l. These major tournaments like the Club World cup next summer and the Club World cup or in the Men's World cup in 2016, to Donald Trump, maybe because he's the president, and I think he's a reflection of what this country is in some ways, whether you want to believe it or not. But he is sort of going to be the face at times of these tournaments.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Yeah, Meg, Felipe talks about the face of this country and I guess the face of what this country is. I just wonder what kind of, I guess, impact some of the policies he's proposing will have on sport in general during his term in office. You know, he's pledged to keep men out of women's sport, which the National Women's Soccer League Commissioner Jessica Berman has responded to. But when Barbara Banda was subject to abuse that the league stayed quiet. You know, what kind of effect do you think these policies will have on women's sport moving forward, but also I guess, the World cup as well in general.

[Meg Linehan]

It's going to be so fascinating to watch this because obviously the NWSL and the U.S. women's National Team have lived through one term of Trump already. And I think we saw a little bit more focus from Donald Trump on the US women's national team. Obviously, the 2019 World cup, their equal pay fight was really what got his attention. Again, money. A real common theme here. But there was this combativeness between Donald Trump and Megan Rapinoe where to be fair, I think both sides were involved in it. But there's a vast power imbalance. And now what we're seeing from the NWSL is the league and the commissioner have said we're going to live by our values, but those values are going to be tested. And I think they did fail that first test with Barbara Banda, who a CIS player who is playing in the league who was attacked over an alleged failed gender test. That didn't happen. And the league did not intervene to say, here's what is true. There are no rules being broken in this league. She is able to play. She is eligible to play. We have no problem with her. We stand by our player. That didn't happen. So the league has policies around who can play in the league. Obviously they're a professional league. But there are going to be some much bigger picture questions coming down the line around trans players, around women's rights, around abortion, you name it, in the US where players are going to want to play state by state. We're kind of in a brave new world in the women's space right now.

[Felipe Cardenas]

I think what Meg is saying is interesting too because again, if you follow Donald Trump in any way, you know that you're probably one tweet or one decision away from becoming an enemy of his. And so right now, you know, Gianni Infantino very much, you know, arm in arm with Donald Trump. The link to Saudi Arabia is obviously there. There's a report just bubbling up this week with Saudi Arabia pledging, I think over $600 billion of investment in the United States. It's linked to these threats that Donald Trump is levying on other governments that say or do things that are against American policy. So that's happening. And I think that brings us to the neighbors to the south Mexico, which is going to be a co host of the 2026 World Cup. And you know, I think, you know, will it be contentious because of the geopolitical aspect of The US And Mexico. That is a great question because I think, you know, right now, US Mexico in terms of football has always been a really intense rivalry and it's always been linked to politics. Whether the presidents of both countries are getting along or not. I don't remember like ever hearing about the two presidents from the United States and Mexico going head to head, butting heads. The way it right now with the president of Mexico and Donald Trump, you know, really going after each other. And so that I think that will be interesting to follow. You know, the World cup is only, what, 500 days away. I don't think that relationship is going to be mended from now until 2026. It's going to be a constant battle of border policies. And obviously we know that there are over what, 60 million, you know, Latinos in this country, so many of the Mexican Americans. I think it will become something where if, especially if these teams meet on the men's side very soon, even on the women's side in a friendly or in a major tournament, that is going to be initial. Be really interesting to watch that.

[Meg Linehan]

We should also point out too that the U.S. and Mexico are planning to bid together for the 2031 Women's cup as well. No Canada, just U.S. and Mexico.

[Felipe Cardenas]

That'll be great to see. That'll be great.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Couldn't make it up. Couldn't make it up. Wow. Adam, I know you've just joined us, you've joined us at the heated part of the conversation actually, but welcome. I know you're in New York. Please lend us your thoughts on this. You know, Felipe's just touched on a few things there in terms of some of the executive orders that have been floated at this moment in time and which can create tension between Mexico and also trade orders that could create tension between Canada. I mean, is this something jarring when it comes to this World cup? Because you're looking at so called allies either side. But then you've got a president who's got very staunch views on how he wants to run the country in some.

[Will]

Ways, like the World Cup's the least of it, isn't it? Right. It kind of feels slightly surreal to even be thinking about the World cup at this point. But I think the kind of bigger question is what does Trump want to do with soccer? And the reality of that is we don't know what he wants to do with anything on a given day. So the idea that he's going to be sat there with a whole blueprint of this is what I want to do with soccer over the next 18 months, the guy doesn't work like that. He works off relationships and influences and impulses. And I think that everyone else is almost going to be in the haywire of that. And there will be fallouts and fall ins. Felipe's absolutely right. Infantino at the moment is in the club. I don't think you'll see Infantino fall out of a club, because I think Infantino's in a really, actually complex position here because this was meant to be the easy World cup, at least on the men's side. You know, you've done Russia, you've done Qatar, usa, Mexico and Canada was kind of meant to be the good PR one. It wasn't meant to be this kind of challenging. And there's things that FIFA, just for me, procedural policy point of view, actually need to get over the line over the next 18 months. And when you host a World cup, part of the bidding requirements are the two big things that FIFA are looking for. The first are visas, the ability to get everyone in and out of the country in an easy and safe way during a tournament. They want as many people as possible coming into the country. What does Donald Trump say he wants to do? He wants as many people as possible out of the country. That's the policies we're hearing about mass deportations, right? That's not any kind of exaggeration. And then the other bit is tax breaks. And we know that Trump is very much America first. He's not FIFA first, he's America first. So that's two policies straight away, which, by the way, when Trump was president last time, he was the president who gave those guarantees saying this would be possible. So it was kind of jarring actually, at the time, because you had, remember the travel ban, where there was the bans of people coming in from predominantly Muslim countries. And he still gave these assurances, these written guarantees to FIFA to say, you know, people will be able to come into the country during this time. Now, just because Trump's given a guarantee doesn't mean he'll actually do it. That's the other bit that FIFA, I think, will be conscious of. And actually, and this is the slightly interesting bit, FIFA had been really struggling with the Biden administration to get these visas over the line. And it's a really big issue, this, because if you are, for example, in Colombia at the moment and you're trying to get a travel visa to come to the United States as a tourist for the World cup, you need to be applying. Now, the wait list at Bogota at the moment, the last time I checked was, like, over 500 days. So if you want to be coming to this World cup, you had to have already applied. Unless you've previously visited the United States and already have that travel visa. Now, I think the US State Department's view on that as being, well, the people that are basically rich enough will already have a visa anyway. FIFA's view is far more. We don't really want it to just be the preserve of people who have already got this visa. We want it to be more accessible. So those are just some sort of. Some of the procedural points that FIFA are very concerned about, tax breaks and visas, and that's what they're going to be possibly butting heads with. But you could almost. You could also, on the flip side, very much imagine Trump, despite everything he says about mass deportations and America first, saying, it's America. Welcome the world. It's the World Cup. It's my World Cup. You're already hearing him talk about the Olympics and the World cup as I got it here, guys. I got it here, guys. You know, they couldn't get it. Obama couldn't get it. True, by the way, that Obama couldn't get it, but for many reasons that aren't really anything to do with Obama or Trump. And he will want it to look like his show in the same way as Putin did, in the same way as Qatar did.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Okay, well, let's move on because we do want to look more into that relationship between FIFA, President Infantino and Donald Trump.

[Donald Trump]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. accamulere.

[Will]

I use the New York Times Games.

[Felipe Cardenas]

App every single day.

[Meg Linehan]

I love playing connections with connections.

[Felipe Cardenas]

I need to twist my brain to see the difference. Categories.

[Will]

I think I know this connection. Look. Bath is a city in England. Sandwich is a city in England. Reading is a city in England. And I'm gonna guess Derby is a city in England. I started Wordle 194 days ago, and.

[Factor Representative]

I haven't missed a day.

[Ian McIntosh]

The New York Times Games app has all the games right there.

[Felipe Cardenas]

I absolutely love spelling bee. I always have to get genius.

[Will]

I've seen you yell at it and.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Say, that should be a word. Totally should be a word.

[Ian McIntosh]

Sudogu is kind of my version of lifting heavy weights at the gym.

[Will]

At this point, I'm probably more consistent.

[Meg Linehan]

With doing the crossword than brushing my teeth.

[Felipe Cardenas]

When I can finish a hard puzzle.

[Meg Linehan]

Without pins, I feel like the smartest.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Person in the world when I have.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

To look up a clue to help Me, I'm learning something new.

[Meg Linehan]

It gives me joy every single day. Start playing in the New York Times games app.

[Ian McIntosh]

You can Download [e-mail] GamesApp I just want to say you're led by a man named Johnny. I just know him as Johnny and he's a winner and he's the president and I'm the president and we've known each other a long time.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

That was Donald Trump there speaking via video message at the launch of the FIFA Club World Cup. Felipe, a quick one on you. What does Trump's growing relationship with FIFA president Gianni Infantino tell us about power and influence when it comes to winning major tournaments?

[Felipe Cardenas]

It's Johnny. IO, it's Johnny. According to.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Oh, sorry, Johnny.

[Felipe Cardenas]

I apologize.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

I apologize. My American Italians.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Yeah, yeah. Neither is, neither is Donald Trump. So, no, you know, it's, it's like I mentioned, I think there, there's, this is a relationship built on, on mutual interests. Right. I think no one should be surprised to see Gianni Infantino at the presidential inauguration or, or just taking pictures with Donald Trump and posting on Instagra. It's not necessarily recency bias, but I think for Gianni Infantino, knowing that this is going to be the president and like I said before, the face of the nation at these major tournaments, it's probably just a good for him to be on the good side. Like Adam said, there's no guarantee that Infantino is not some somehow going to be shoved out of, you know, the boys club. Right now, Right now he's in. And we, and we know why, like no one that follows football is ever surprised by the power brokering that happens at the top level of international sport. So, you know, between the two, like Adam says, some of the things that we are talking about in terms of what Donald Trump will say or how he'll approach a certain tournament or whether or not a relationship will, will stay as solid as it is. A lot of what Donald Trump really is, is you just have to wait and see. You know, one day he could be one way, the other day he might be out. And so I think with Gian Infantino, he, he is someone who has made, I think it's been his personal quest honestly to get a World cup to Saudi Arabia. You know, he's lived in the Middle east for several years. And if, if there's anything that you know about, about the Saudis and in sport is that they're willing to spend as much money as, as possible to essentially own a piece of the pie, if not Own it outright. And so I think the concern is that very obvious shift of global football going in that direction when we know that there are some very severe and concerning, you know, human rights issues that are going to be part of the, that World cup in, in 2034. We, we face them in 2022 in Qatar. And, you know, looking back, what now, you know, two, two, three years ago, it does seem unfortunate that just some of those issues have been just brushed under the, under the rug for no one else to see. And if that's going to be the case in 2034, you know, it really doesn't shock me, to be honest with you, Meg.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Felipe uses the word concern. And I wonder how important it is also to scrutinize this World cup happening in the United States. We scrutinize Russia, we've scrutinized Qatar, we scrutinize Saudi Arabia, you know, welcoming fans of various ethnicities, religious persuasions or sexualities. You know, like, how important is it to look at America and say, yes, I know this is the so called free world, developed world, but why can't we scrutinize it?

[Meg Linehan]

Yeah, the, the idea that America is above any sort of scrutiny right at the moment is just beyond absurd at this point. I think, you know, there was even that sense after the Men's World cup in 2022 of like, sure, okay, there's going to be plenty of things that we need to be keeping an eye on here. I think America's general love of guns is going to be a massive problem for a lot of people outside of this country that I think, unfortunately, a lot of us are just kind of been boiled alive in that concept for a very long time. But I also think, you know, there's going to be labor issues. There's going to be. Do you feel safe traveling to certain states? Right. I think we're already going through those issues. I know US Women's national team fans are frequently like, I don't feel safe going to Florida or Texas for any number of reasons. Right. Whether that's because of their sexuality, if they're trans, women's rights. You know, there are issues happening kind of across the board. And so this is going to be a World cup where I think we have to really take a hard look at ourselves. I don't know if anybody actually. I feel like we're going to get a lot of attention here in America from across the globe. But there is already this sense of major tournaments like this do, I think, expose a lot of underlying and big issues and that Olympics are the same way. Right. I think everybody's already looking to LA. 2028 also will be under Donald Trump and going okay. Los Angeles has just gone through a series of major fires. Who's going to get priority in terms of rebuilding if the Olympics are also coming to town? Who's going to get displaced if the Olympics are coming to town? Those have always been big questions about major tournaments, especially on the men's side. And so, yes, America 100% deserves the scrutiny, especially with Donald Trump as president and what that's going to mean for hosting a men's World Cup.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Meg is spot on. And if you go, you'd only have to go back to last summer with the Copa America. I think it was a wake up call for American organizers. They looked really naive in a lot of ways in how to handle a major international, you know, football tournament. And, you know, for, for, for Meg and I, who live in the States, we go to NFL stadiums, you know, all the time, whether we're fans or we're working a game. You know, for me, at that Copa America, there were a lot of times where it felt like this was the very first time that some of these people were, were, were even working an event of this, of this magnitude. You know, the lines for the press, the lines for the fans, obviously, we know what happened at the quarterfinal between Uruguay and Columbia where there was a brawl in the stands between players and fans. And then obviously the final in Miami where thousands of fans were trapped outside, pressed against the gates and eventually let in when so many didn't have tickets, others did. It was just a complete mess. And it was, you know, we were honestly inches from tragedy at that final in Miami. And so, you know, I think to Meg's point, there's this perception that everything is perfect here. Oh, you have the stadiums, you have the infrastructure. No big deal. And the Copa America proved that there is still a high sense of, of, of not knowing what, honestly what international football is, what, what fandom can turn into if you're not prepared. And so I'm honestly like anxiously waiting to see how that shifts and what FIFA does in, in this case. I know the Copa America was a comable run tournament, but FIFA officials were there, we know that. And that's going issue is security. That's the biggest issue, I think.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

All right, thank you so much for joining us. I know you've got to go. Really appreciate your contribution to the conversation.

[Meg Linehan]

No problem. Bye.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Adam, let's come back to it. Infertino's role in this relationship. It's a really fascinating because I think I'm caught in two minds here because look, if you're going to be hosting a World cup in any country, there's a little greasing of the palms that has to happen of whoever's running the country. Right. Regardless of who it is. But then my question is, what do you think of the influence that Infantino has in this World cup in America, but also that connection with Trump. How, how fascinating is that to you to see how they're both talking about how they've had this long term relationship blooming for quite a while.

[Will]

Infantino being in a strong relationship with the leader of a country that is hosting an event is not a new phenomenon. Go back to Russia, go back to him receiving a Medal of Honor from Putin. It was either just before or just after the World cup in 2018, wasn't he sat between MBS and Putin at that Saudi Arabia Russia game. So this isn't new and this isn't unique to Donald Trump. This is actually kind of Infantino being a mind blowingly good politician in some ways in his ability to get kind of where water can't. I mean, I don't think the NFL and NBA commissioners were at the inauguration. I got messages at the inauguration from people watching the inauguration the other day, basically being like, who's the bold soccer dude right on the back row? What's he doing a couple of rows behind Clinton and Obama and all these kind of illustrious people of American society, you know, near other people like Zuckerberg and Musk and Bezos and what's the guy from FIFA doing there? It's been a really interesting relationship and it does go back to the fact that Trump was in office when the U.S. mexico and Canada won the bid against Morocco back in 2018. And it was a couple of years process. And we did a piece on this, I think the day before the election, partly because we thought Trump might never be relevant again. So you almost have to do that piece then, in case no one's really thinking about Donald Trump anymore and we're now in a very different world a few weeks later. But what was interesting that came out of that, I actually spoke to one of his advisors, Jason Miller, and said what went on with this? And this was just over a text message. And his reply was just, this was all Jared. And Jared is his son in law, Jared Kushner. Jared Kushner had a huge role relating to this World Cup. He was basically the touch point of the bid team when they were trying to get all these written guarantees that you have to get. Whether it would have been Obama in the White House, Clinton or Trump, you needed these assurances. Every country has to do this. There is a political involvement in getting the guarantees that you need. But little by little, that relationship developed. And actually the touch point, I think, that initially connected the bid team and FIFA and Infantino was a billionaire called Robert Kraft, who owns the New England Patriots, who owns the Gillette Stadium, isn't it in New England? And Boston have done pretty well right out of this relationship. They've ended up with seven games during the World Cup. Actually, as it turns out, the relationship now between Bob Kraft and Trump I don't think is as good. He came out after January 6th and basically said his view on Trump had changed as a result. Now, we've heard quite a few people whose views on Trump changed after January 6, who, since he's returned to power, have a different view again. So that may change, who knows? But what's interesting is the relationship between Trump and Infantino never faltered. And what we do know about Trump, for the many flaws that people may talk about, is he's quite loyal to those who are loyal to him. And Infantino. This was really quite interesting. There was a moment at Davos, I think, in. I think it was January 2021, where Trump was being introduced to speak, and at that point, the ground rules were being set on his Senate impeachment trial. And Infantino still got up to do the introductory speech before Trump spoke. And Infantino stands in this room and basically compares Trump to a great sportsman, saying he's got the fiber of an elite athlete, that he's brave, then he's this, then he's this, then he's this, then he's this. And actually, I kind of wonder whether Trump looks at moments like that when other people are rounding on him and thinks, hey, this guy Johnny, he stood by me, and actually, now I'm back in power, I might look after him, too. But I think there's also a little bit of. He clearly loves the platform that sport can give, right? We saw within, like, 48 hours of winning the election, he was at the UFC. Musk was there next to him. You've got Dana White from UFC was there. Yasra Ramayan, the chairman of LIV Golf, but also the governor of pif, also the chairman of Newcastle United was also two seats down. There is a prestige and a platform. And also, if you remember how Trump won the election, a lot of people were talking at the time Weren't they? About the podcast he did with Joe Rogan, this kind of three hour podcast, this bro sphere, this manosphere that he appears to have connected with. And maybe he sees kind of the World cup, the Olympics as all the connection of that. We've spoken for years about this idea of, of using sport as a, as a means of extending popularity, of extending cultural influence of sports. Washing, perhaps, I don't know. Do you agree, Felipe?

[Felipe Cardenas]

I do. Because, you know, Donald Trump is, you know, before he was a politician and now a major head of state, has always been a showman, has always been around Hollywood. His is, you know, you remember the Apprentice and you know, that reality TV show that he had. He was in Home Alone as a cameo. He was honestly, like revered in that space for so long, you know, in the 90s and the mid-2000s. And so that, that's probably part of his draw to Gianni Infantino and to into world football, because he sees it, I think he doesn't know much about it, but what he sees are these galas. He sees money, he sees opportunity.

[Will]

So the other thing he sees is rate totally. There's one thing Donald Trump understands, it's ratings. How many people watch the World cup final? Billions. So he will be there, right? Front and center.

[Felipe Cardenas]

100%. Yeah, he's, he's turned up at some college football games. College football, if for the listeners that don't know here in the States, I compare it. I think it's the sport that most is the closest to the tribalism of world football. You know, the college universities here are billion dollar industries. College football is a major sport. And last season, you know, when he wasn't president, he was campaigning and it wasn't going too well, he turned up at a huge game here in the South. In the south is obviously Trump country. And it was like an opportunity for him to come out and say, I'm still here, I'm still relev, you know, to Adam's point. And so, you know, I think that's, you know, he probably loves this part of the game, honestly, and probably feels he's pretty good at it.

[Will]

The other bit, which has remained constant even when Trump was out of power, the Jared Kushner involvement with FIFA really has been significant when it came to getting the final to New York, New Jersey, Kushner, who does he appear to be a genuine soccer fan? I'm not sure, but he certainly appears.

[Felipe Cardenas]

To appreciate he's a soccer dad. That happens a lot during the States. Someone says, oh, my kid plays soccer. Sudden Am a big fan. I think that's where that's.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

I think Trump said his kid plays soccer as well. Yeah, same thing, Same thing. But.

[Will]

But what. What. What was funny about the Kushner bit is even when, you know, Trump wasn't in power, so there wasn't necessarily a huge amount to gain. You know, this time last year, potentially, Kushner was the person who was organizing the big meetings with Infantino and business leaders in New York and even the New Jersey governors who, you know, traditionally lean Democrat.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Don't forget Tiffany, Adam. Don't forget Tiffany.

[Will]

Tiffany. And the trophy. But the final didn't look guaranteed to go to New York. You know, Dallas was in line for it as well. New York always made most sense from a media perspective. Also from a time zone perspective, arguably weather. But Kushner was the touch point for that as well. So even when Trump was out of power, was still having an influence. And we then saw this at the Club World cup cup draw just a few weeks ago in Miami, where within a week or so, maybe it was a couple of weeks after winning the election, you've got Trump giving a video address to this room of football club owners, of teams competing in the Club World Cup. And this isn't a ratings winner. No one knows how big this thing is yet, but he's leaning his support to it. And you've got Jared Kushner literally in the room with his wife, with Trump's daughter and their grandchild literally pulling balls out of the drawer. Right. I mean, it was kind of completely surreal, but also made total sense if you've kind of followed this world over the last few years or so. And of course, it was, as Trump told us, it was Jared's idea that Tiffany would design the trophy.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

All right, let's move on, because next we want to find out what kind of legacy the World cup coming to America will have on U.S. soccer.

[Donald Trump]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamolere. This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamalera.

[Ian McIntosh]

I used to play, and we call it here soccer. That's right. It's never worked out as well in the United States as it has elsewhere, but although we're having the World cup pretty soon coming to the United States, so that should be great. But it's a great game. I love soccer. I played actually in high school, I played soccer. So you know what it's all about. Oh, I love it.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

That was Donald Trump there back in 1992, speaking to a guy our American fans might not know, called Jimmy Greaves from Trump Tower about the upcoming 1994 World cup, having helped draw the quarter final of the 1992 League Cup. You need to watch that clip. He actually came across as quite a pleasant guy and actually was an advocate for women's soccer and saying how the US Women were the best in the world at the time. But let's move on to this conversation. Felipe. You know, the US hosted the World cup back in 1994, as we've just said, but it failed to capitalize and work its way into the mainstream. Now the bigger question is given the power and influence football can have an offer, you know, the global game, do you get a sense that hosting this tournament will galvanize how football is dealt with in the usa? And I only say this because I have this weird thought that the World cup comes in, a bunch of guys, make a whole heap of money for 18 months or so, and then the, the circus goes and then the lmls, which you'd love to see grow, kind of stays the same.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Yeah, I think in, and just off of that, that, that sound bite, you know, and, and you're into your point of Donald Trump supporting women's soccer, women's sports. There's, it's a whole other podcast to talk about his previous ideologies. Right. And, and where he was aligned before. But you know, we, we are in present day and to your point, you know, away from the World cup and in this World cup in 2026, it's sort of multi pronged and like, what is the effect going to be on mls? What is the effect going to be globally? Who's going to get rich? What will it do for, to Adam's point, for TV ratings and stadium infrastructure? There are a lot of downtown host cities that are revitalizing as we speak, preparing for the World Cup. So you're going to see growth in that economic sense. What it does for the sport and Trump's role in it. Again, it's wait and see. You. I don't link the growth of football in the United States to a politician or to who the president and head of state is. I mean, that's just never been the case. What we know about football in the United States is that, yes, it's a growing sport. I think we can argue at what point will it just be a sport and not be this developmental program the way it's sometimes marketed? The growth has been incredible for someone like me that lives and breathes, you know, what soccer looks like in the United States. You know, it's night and day compared to what it was in 94. You know, now there are major steps that should be taken off of the 2026 World Cup. You know, will MLS be able to entrench itself in mainstream American sports culture? That may never happen, guys. Honestly, it just may never happen. And. And that won't be perhaps to anyone's fault. It just is the way that the wave of America, the American sports landscape truly is. I mentioned college football before. That is a sport that is so huge and it's growing. So, you know, in comparison to mls, it's really difficult to catch those sports like the NFL and college football. If Trump is just vocally supporting American soccer, if he comes out with some sound bite that promotes mls, those are all, I mean, honestly, good things. It may not matter, though, and the World cup may not be a watershed moment for the growth of professional football in the United States. It might just be to what we discussed, a major, major event in the United States where people get rich, where it's a major tournament. It's the first time 48 teams are going to be there. That's going to be the focus. And the fact that this is a massive country with its own issues and the way the tournament progresses, that's a bigger story perhaps now than what happens 10 years later.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Do you buy that, Adam? Did you just feel that perhaps the MLS just kind of takes its place on the ranking of American sport because it is where it is? Are you going to challenge basketball? Are you going to challenge the NFL? Or do you just work with it the way it is, market it the best you can and just Admit Perhaps it's 4th or 5th tier?

[Will]

Well, I don't think MLS can ever admit that or should admit that. MLS has a lot of issues at the moment. It's very strong in some local markets. Attendance is a very strong in some local markets. Participation is growing in most parts of the country pretty well. There's issues relating to, you know, the cost, actually for young people to play soccer in the United States. You know, it's in every other part of the world. It's one of the most socially accessible sports. And I think in the United States, it's nowhere near cheap enough, frankly, for many young people of working class background to actually play. Additionally, there is a media issue that MLS has at the moment that people aren't watching it. As far as I can tell, no.

[Felipe Cardenas]

People go to the stadium. To your point, attendance is really good, but people don't watch on tv. That's the problem.

[Will]

Yeah. And it's obviously behind this Apple paywall, and that's a real challenge at the moment. I was actually in, I was in Vegas last weekend and talking to one of the sports bucks at Vegas and I said to them, in just soccer, where does MLS come in terms of the most, the most betted on leagues that you take money on. Do you want to guess what number that was for mls?

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Six.

[Felipe Cardenas]

Yeah, I'll say around like sixth, seventh. You know, I don't think it's, it's, it's up there.

[Will]

It was the ninth.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Wow.

[Will]

So the, the, the, the domestic league in the United states was the 9th most bested on soccer league. Not talking about all sports there, just soccer. Leaguer MX was second, which won't shock people who kind of followed that space. But that's an issue, right, because that tells you that people aren't watching it on TV because people bet on what they're watching on tv. So I think ultimately MLS has kind of missed a moment to a large extent to be more ambitious in terms of spending. You're still here with this trade window at the moment. We're going to go and get this old guy. We're going to get this other old guy. We're going to get this other old guy. I know they're changing that to a certain extent, but I think for most people who can watch any league, they've seen that old guy when the old guy was the young guy. And although that's appealing in local markets, I don't think it's that appealing as a TV product. Unless it's a Messi. Right. If it's Marco Reus, it's like, okay, but I've seen Marco Royce play when he was pretty good in the Champions League. I don't know if I want to tune in and watch him, you know, at 35, 36, when he's less good, it's not that stimulating. And then there is just the issue of FIFA arrived really late into the United States. Like they've now set up a base in Miami, but it's late. I still think there's a lot of people in this country that don't know there's a World cup happening here in 18 months time.

[Felipe Cardenas]

That's true.

[Will]

Unless you're a soccer fan, you don't necessarily know it's happening. And I'm not sure there's been enough of a push actually to start not really engaging people with it. It'll be fine when it gets here. It'll sell. People will come. It'll be a Great success. But if, you know, when you talk about legacy, I do think that FIFA could have been doing a lot more in local markets to basically be saying, we're coming and this is what we're going to do and this is how we're going to do it and we're going to give you this, we're going to do these workshops, we're going to get local kids involved. You should have kids in all these markets running around in FIFA shirts at the moment, moment, right from little training camps and stuff like that. You know, come to these places, hit the moment, but they're not really doing that, so that's a bit of a shame. But before all that, we've got the club World cup, so maybe that will ignite the imagination. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Felipe Cardenas]

You know, I'll tell you what, you know, where Donald Trump's legacy with football, you know, may be linked. And I think this is something that perhaps him and his administration just don't think about this. This will tell you how perhaps how out of touch the administration is with what global football means. He has signed an executive order. This is going to go, it's going to go to court, obviously across the country. But you know, this removing birthright citizenship for sons and daughters, for children of illegal immigrants in the United States, you know, think about that from a global football perspective and from a country that is built on immigration, a national team that for decades has been, has featured players that are from immigrant families in the United States. And that's something that, that, you know, in our, in our own little bubble within American soccer, you know, is being talked about, you know, what, what is the impact for, for the men's national team, the women's national team as well, you know, 10, 20 years from now, I think especially for the men who, who have really relied on players of, of, of immigrant backgrounds for this, their skill over their culture to really improve American soccer, you know, and everyone here in the States wants to see the men be better at ona, at an international stage. You know, what does this mean for development, for opportunities? It's already very expensive to Adam's point, to play high level youth soccer in the United States. There's, there's, for decades there have been debates about kids falling through the cracks because they don't have the financial means. But if they're not in the country anymore, that's a problem as well for a country that wants to be better and wants to build a national team that reflects its, its culture. So that's going to be one to watch. And that could, in the end, if, if it really goes through and, and, and years go by and it's something that, that affects not just American policy, but everything from sport to economics, you know, that'll be part of Donald Trump's legacy as well.

[Will]

That will impact Team USA as well, right at the Olympics in decades to come.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

Yeah, for sure. All right, let's end it there, gents. Really appreciate your time. Adam, Felipe, and also Meg, who had to leave us earlier as well. And thank you so much for listening. Michael Bailey will be with you for the preview tomorrow. Looking ahead to Manchester City versus Chelsea.

[Donald Trump]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

[Allstate Representative]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Unknown Host]

Hello, I'm Ian McIntosh and I'm the host of the Daily Football Briefing. What is the Daily Football Briefing? It's a special 10 minute daily show designed to bring you up to speed with the most important stories from across the football world. Except on Monday mornings when it's 15 minutes and we try to cram in the results, standings and stories from the top 10 leagues on the planet, or at least the top 10 leagues that I run on a football manager say. Follow this show today and you'll never miss another big story again. Whether it's news that the Athletic has just broken David Ornstein.

[Ayo Akimwalere]

What happened?

[Unknown Host]

News from outside the Premier League that other podcasts might ignore, that is a.

[Will]

Difficult one to explain. So let's go bit by bit.

[Unknown Host]

Or it's Champions League week and you just need someone to put it all into context.

[Meg Linehan]

It's made for a very useful away point in a difficult game in a difficult week.

[Unknown Host]

Listen to the Daily football briefing in 2025. It's out every weekday wherever you get your podcasts.