Inside Aston Villa’s power struggle

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast — “Inside Aston Villa’s Power Struggle”

Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Ayo Akimolere
Guests: Jacob Tanswell & Dan Bardell

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into Aston Villa’s alarming start to the Premier League season—18th place with only one goal after five games—unpacking what’s gone wrong on and off the pitch. Host Ayo Akimolere, joined by Villa correspondent Jacob Tanswell and pod regular Dan Bardell, analyse Unai Emery’s increasingly fraught management, discuss critical squad and structure issues, and explore the behind-the-scenes power struggles destabilizing the club. The discussion is wide-ranging, frank, and anchored by deep reporting—all with The Athletic’s signature insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Aston Villa’s Poor Start: What’s Happening?

[01:39–02:30] State of Play

• After five league matches, Villa are 18th with three draws, two defeats, and only one goal.
• Unai Emery labelled his own players "lazy" in a post-match press conference.
  • “[He] kept saying, lazy, lazy, lazy.” — Jacob Tanswell (03:08)
• Villa had an extra man for over an hour against Sunderland yet gave up more shots and xG.

Manager’s Communication & Dressing Room Mood

[02:30–03:53 and 06:03–07:55]

• Unai Emery’s comments marked a shift to open frustration; previously “polite… affable” with the media, but now prickly in interviews.
  • “It’s probably the angriest I’ve seen Unai Emery.” — Jacob Tanswell (02:30)
• Emery is distant with staff—“not one you can get close to”—and club hierarchy mediates between him and wider staff.
• The squad’s spirit is low: “If I didn’t know better, I’d look at them and think that’s a team not playing for their manager.” — Dan Bardell (04:13)
• Off-pitch uncertainty (Martínez and other players angling for moves) directly impacting team psychology and performance.

Hangover from Last Season’s Highs & Squad Stagnation

[07:55–09:41]

• Villa ended the last campaign with historic highs, but a limp FA Cup semi-final and the failure to beat Manchester United on the final day left “an element of a hangover.”
  • “It’s almost as if the players have just suddenly all become old and slow overnight, which isn’t the case. But that’s what it looks like.” — Dan Bardell (08:28)
• Premier League has gotten more physical, direct and fast; Villa have not caught up in terms of recruitment or identity.

Is Emery Outdated in Today’s Premier League?

[09:41–12:14]

• Emery’s “calm and controlled” approach at risk of becoming a misfit in a league shifting toward pace and strength.
  • “If he loses that structure, he loses himself as a coach.” — Jacob Tanswell (10:06)
• Emery’s tactical identity is rigid; reluctance to shift away from structure-focused, counter-avoidance football even as the league evolves.

Structural Power Struggle: Monchi’s Exit

[15:49–19:41]

• Jacob reports Monchi (President of Football Ops, longtime Emery ally) is departing; Roberto Larby expected to replace him.
• Shift from Monchi’s leadership to an Emery-dominated structure (“Emery FC”)—a “power triangle” of Monchi/Vigan/Emery now fractured.
  • “It’s still going to be Emery FC, basically… you’re really hedging your bets and going all-in on Emery working this season.” — Jacob Tanswell (16:52)
• Monchi’s departure coincides with persistent recruitment frustrations and squad skew issues (lack of natural wingers, aging core, players all wanting to occupy same spaces).

Squad Management and Short-termism

[19:41–21:27]

• Villa’s squad construction has been short-term: older, experienced players and minimal succession planning for key roles.
• Noted lack of young players ready to step up; the “three-year cycle” theme surrounding Emery’s previous jobs (Sevilla, Villarreal).

Summer Transfers & Player Uncertainty

[21:06–24:12]

• Transfer incomings described as reactive, late, and shaped by PSR pressures.
• Player unease: many unsure of their place, with Emmy Martinez, Ollie Watkins, and John McGinn all in transfer limbo.
  • “Nothing feels certain… If you’d asked me if Emery would be here for the next few years—this time last year, absolutely.” — Dan Bardell (22:24)
• Villa’s wide player shortage: Rashford’s loan departure and failed attempts to sign him permanently due to PSR and player preference for Barcelona.

What Next? Can Emery Turn It Around?

[27:44–36:21]

• Emery needs to get more from key players, but problems are collective: “I don’t think Villa can get a better number nine than Ollie Watkins… but he looks miles off it at the moment. But he’s not alone.” — Dan Bardell (28:12)
• Watkins’ confidence and status undermined by off-field uncertainty and selection choices (Rashford picked ahead of him).
• Villa’s academy produces talent but few reach first team due to Champions League-level expectations.
  • “To go from FA Youth Cup to playing in Champions League… it’s a massive step.” — Jacob Tanswell (31:22)
• New signings (Harvey Elliott, Jadon Sancho, Amadou Onana) still bedding in; squad remains unbalanced, with too many “number 10s,” no natural wide players.

Emery’s Future: Job Security and Personal Ambition

[33:39–36:21]

• Europa League could become central to the season: “Would you take 17th and the Europa League? …Right now, I’d be stupid not to.” — Dan Bardell (33:54)
• If results don’t improve, the risk is Emery choosing to leave, not being sacked: “He buzzes off Europe… would he accept a year without it?” — Jacob Tanswell (35:10)
• Internal structural issues—recruitment and squad evolution—present fundamental challenges for sustained progress.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emery’s Press Conference Outburst:
  “You ask about the players’ energy levels and then he just went off and just kept saying, lazy, lazy, lazy.” — Jacob Tanswell (02:30)
• On Villa’s Funk:
  “If I didn’t know better, I would look at them and think, oh, that’s a team that’s not playing for the manager here. But that can’t be the case because of what Unai Emery’s done since he arrived at the club.” — Dan Bardell (04:13)
• On Squad Recruitment:
  “The squad is lopsided, they’ve not got players in certain positions… If Emery’s the one who’s got the final say… it feels like that was all geared around the short term. Now we need something long term, and it’s almost not there.” — Dan Bardell (18:48)
• On Future Uncertainty:
  “Nothing feels certain. …If you’d asked me, do I think Emery will be here for the next few years? …This time last year, absolutely, 100%.” — Dan Bardell (22:24)
• On the Europa League as Salvation:
  “Would you take 17th and the Europa League? …Right now I’d be stupid not to snap someone’s hand off for it.” — Dan Bardell (33:54)
• On Emery’s Job:
  “I think the latter is more likely—(Emery) saying, I’ve had enough, I need to go somewhere else—because of the conviction in his project. …If a club came in for him… does he turn it down right now?” — Jacob Tanswell (35:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• State of Villa & Emery’s “Lazy” Call-Out: 01:39–03:28
• Emery’s Demeanor & Disconnect Behind the Scenes: 03:53–07:55
• Last Season Hangover / League Has Changed: 08:07–09:41
• Is Emery Outdated? Tactical Rigidity: 09:41–12:14
• The Monchi Power Struggle / Squad Building: 15:49–19:41
• Player Uncertainty / PSR’s Impact on Transfers: 21:06–24:12
• Can Emery Turn It Around? What Now?: 27:44–33:39
• Europa League or Bust / Emery’s Future: 33:39–36:21

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Final Quiz Segment: Top Signings in the Emery Era

[36:21–37:47]

• A brief, lighthearted quiz where Jacob and Dan try to name Villa’s top five most expensive Emery-era buys.
  • “Well done, Jacob.” (about Ian Maatsen) — IO Akimolere (37:10)
  • Full list delivered: Amadou Onana, Moussa Diaby, Ian Maatsen, Pau Torres, Evan Gassand.

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Summary

This episode is a must-listen for anyone trying to understand Villa’s malaise in 2025. With sharp, well-attributed reporting, the panel dissects the team’s crisis—on the pitch (tactics, player confidence, transfer strategy), in the dressing room (psychology, mistrust, managerial mood) and in the boardroom (structural power struggles, short-termism). The tone is candid but not hysterical; hope glimmers faintly via new signings and the Europa League, but the mood is deeply wary. Emery’s genius is acknowledged, yet so too are his limitations; as power consolidates around him, the risk profile at Villa grows sharper.

If you want to understand not just what’s happening at Aston Villa, but why it matters—and what might come next—this episode delivers, with timestamps and standout quotes to guide you through.

Transcript

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[Jacob Tanzwell]

The Athletic FC.

[IO Akimolere]

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, IO Akimolera. Aston Villa are 18th in the Premier League and have just scored one goal so far. So are the team really lazy and what does Unai Emery need to change? All right, with us in the studio we have Jacob Tanzwell. We've also got Dan Bardell as well. Jacob, let's just lay out the situation. Five Premier League games, three draw to defeat, one goal scored for Aston Villa. It's not looking good. And also it was your question to UN Emry at the press conference after the 11 draw against Sunderland that prompted him to call his players lazy as well. We were lazy sometimes in defensively lazy for example the way we considered we were lazy first and foremost was it justified but also what is he like to deal with? Cuz it was quite prickly.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Yeah, it's probably the angriest I've seen Unai emer I think there's been other circumstances last season away to Monaco where he called up the player's mentality but he kind of wrote back on it after a little while where he said lazy quite a lot in that post match. And if you see the goal is a do equalizer and how granite shaq had all that space. You probably actually, you know, he's probably got reason to say that. It was funny because usually for away games your physic manager comes in first, right, because they want to get going. But the Sunderland manager came in first and I'd heard that he was, he actually called his players lazy in another interview and I thought, I wonder if he will say the same at his press conference or maybe he would have time to calm down a little bit. So on a third question, you, you ask about the player's energy levels and then he just went off and just kept saying, lazy, lazy, lazy.

[IO Akimolere]

I mean, I, I, I watched the goal, we conceded and we were lazy. We were lazy. But all the team, all the team, not the Santo Ocasio, we were lazy.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

And obviously, I think that speaks of his frustration because he tried to do a positive spin earlier in the week. He tried to say they were building, they were slowly getting there. And you see the results at East Sunderland, but then when you play with an extra player for more than an hour and the other team registers more shots higher, xg, they're the team that maybe could have won that game. You think there is something wrong in that team and maybe compared to last season, there's been a huge change and a huge decline.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, I mean, this is really interesting, isn't it? Fundamentally, there is something wrong with that team and we can all see it. And I remember, you know, I'm not a Villa fan, but I've loads of friends with Villa fans and from day one I was like, there's something bit off about Aston Villa, but considering that's the overarching conversation, why is the manager coming out and saying that? Because it's surely a risk at this point. It's about building morale.

[Dan Bardell]

I think he'll maybe look at himself as he's got that much power at Villa. He is, he is the main man at Villa and previously he knows what he's done to this group of players. You know, people will be talking about it being nine of those players that started at the weekend were there when he arrived. They know where Villa were at when he came through the door and I know that they've played Champions League football under him. So I think he's kind of got so much credit in the bank with the players that he almost probably thinks he can get away with that. But then saying that when I've watched Villa this season, if I didn't know better, I would look at them and think, oh, that's a team, that's that's not playing for the manager here. But that can't be the case because of what Unai Emery's done since he arrived at the club. It's just, I think there's lots of little problems at the moment that when you put them, it cumulates in. In what we're seeing. There's been off the pitch issues that have seeped into being on the pitch. I think when the transfer window shut, I hoped that a line would be drawn under everything and we kind of start again. We still haven't won a game, we're barely scoring goals. Still. The two goals that we have scored this season have been quite fortunate gifts. I mean, the most positive thing I can think of is that you just said that we were 18th in the Premier League and I thought we were 19th. So we've got. We've gone up a place in my mind.

[IO Akimolere]

I could give you something in this conversation, but, you know, it's interesting because you. You wrote about this as well, is that he watch until I die. In preparation for the match over the weekend, you hear about this.

[Dan Bardell]

Yeah.

[IO Akimolere]

And it's really interesting because if you think about the. The entire series, it's about a team sort of in the depths of despair, really, and it's ebbs and flows of that. But what do you make of that? I mean, what's going on? Is he looking for some sort of inspiration to get this team firing you?

[Dan Bardell]

Knowing what Unai Emery does and what he puts on for the players, the amount of detail he goes into, I can't imagine that that was his. His only preparation. I can't believe he hasn't seen it, to be fair, because it was. It was a pretty good documentary until I got. They've come on quite a lot since then.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Yeah.

[IO Akimolere]

Ask though. We'll move on to sort of some of the reasons why Villa maybe aren't firing at the moment or working well. Is that, you know, from your perspective, you've interviewed this guy several times and what is he like? Like, because we spoke about it in a. Last season, we talked about him being a master tactician. What he could offer Villa could be really, really interesting. But this season, some of his post match interviews have been really strange.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Yeah, he's a polite guy, he's an affable guy with media, but he's not one of those you can get close to. Right. He's. When he's suffering, you can tell he's very, you know, introspective. He wants to find the answers himself. And this is the same for all Staff, really, apart from the. The head honchos, you know, president of or director of football operations down in Vidian. And prior to this week, Monchi, you couldn't go to him. Not many staff out. You know what, I can knock on this door and speak to him. That's just the structure of the club. And for two and a half years it worked amazingly. You go to Vidigani, if you've got an issue, you go to Munch, you've got an issue. But you don't approach unai because UNAI is just there with his tactics. Boy, that's interception. He's there with his tactics board trying to work out ways to beat the next opposition. And he was seen and still is seen by a lot of people at the club as a genius tactically. But there is a pressure on him now. Can they change? Can they evolve and become better? What I will say is it looks like the players aren't playing for at the moment because they looked so passive and just so lacking any sort of inspiration. But from what I understand, the players still support him. They're, of course they're happy. They're not particularly pleased to be in these hours of analysis session four games, but they accept that this is a winning formula and it's been a recipe that's served them so well. The issue, and we'll come on to, is that the uncertainty of this summer with the saga of Martinez, for example, as caused negativity, and that shouldn't happen for a team that have been so good, got Champions League beat, psg, ran them so close to beating them overall, beaten by Munich, and now you see them, the mood should have been like this.

[IO Akimolere]

Is that. Is that what's so surprising from a Villa fan perspective, is that considering where last season ended and the beautiful triumph, some great moments, by the way, that you've come into this season really flat.

[Dan Bardell]

I think when I talk about these little reasons that I think there is for why Villa are on the decline, I think one of them is the fact that they had all those great moments and then at the big moments at the end of the season, the FA cup semi final and the last day against Manchester United, where they quite simply just didn't turn up and rolled over Old Trafford when they had a chance to qualify for the Champions League. I think there's still an element of a hangover from those big moments because we went into the summer knowing it was going to be difficult anyway. That's fundamentally what was the case. Obviously, lots of different things happened. It's Almost as if every player was up for sale. That's going to add to uncertainty. Big players potentially leaving the dressing room. A popular member of the dressing room going, going to Newcastle who are perceived as rivals. So that's kind of how you're starting the season before a ball's even, even been kicked. So I do think that off the pitch has seeped into on the pitch. But I just find it hard because I don't recognize this Villa that I'm seeing at the moment. This isn't the type of football that I associate with Unai Emery teams and Unai Emery's Aston Villa. And it's almost as if the players have just suddenly all become old and slow overnight, which isn't the case. But that's what it looks like. And I think fundamentally the Premier League has changed over the summer. If you look, look at the good teams now. They're all big, they're all powerful, they all play with width, they're all quick, they're very physical teams. If you watch the Arsenal Manchester City game on Sunday it felt like every player on the pitch was 6 foot plus. Villa are the opposite of that. Villa don't really have that physical profile aside from from a few players. Everything we're doing seems slow and methodical at the moment. It's almost as if football has just moved on in the space of a summer and we've just not realized.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, can I just ask you. But we've asked like listeners to send in some questions and stuff and actually what you're talking about really harks to one question here from a listeners. And by the way both of you take it is that is Emery's style outdated now seems to be a push for faster on direct style of football in the Premier League. Whereas Unai Emery's calm and controlled is. Is there a misfit here?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I think for Emery he always talks about structure and if he loses that structure of him he loses himself as a coach. Fundamentally he will stay the same. But there's been expectation for six months maybe predating the Crystal palace semi final that they would have to evolve in some way. I I reported over the preseason that maybe they go to a back three system to because they haven't got an actual right winger in the squad incredibly to compensate for that. But you see the way other teams play and you know opposition analysts are clever. They. They realize that the way that Emery wants to play is through baiting them coming. They want interpress attack the vacant space and at the same time Villa are a team that Won't control. But Emery's so wary of transitions. This whole game plan is about avoiding the counter, similar to Guardiola. But you've seen now Guardiola is bringing players in that are more suited to this transitional, direct style. A couple of years ago, a lot of teams were playing out. You know, De Zerbi was the one that brought him in, really, and everyone was seeming to keep the ball at the back and almost wanting the striker to press. Now it's not quite happening. But the risk that Emery has is if he decides to do this, something that is completely opposed to him and not something that he really likes to coach. If things go wrong or continues to go wrong, what is there left for him? Because he hasn't got that identity anymore. And if he loses the structure, he feels that he probably loses his way as a coach.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah. In fairness, Dan, I mean, like, you could say the same. As you said, Guardiola might need to adapt. Arteta, as we saw against Manchester City, might need to adapt. Is, you know, Emery in that camp as well? Does he need to adapt?

[Dan Bardell]

I think one of the best things about supporting Villa over the last few years is although I knew what Emery's structure was going to be, there was always these kind of subtle changes game to game. Like Martinez might clip the ball to the fullback one week. The next week we'd be going, really, the next week it would be playing to the center backs because it's almost like he'd identified the weaknesses in the opposition. At the moment, it does feel, and I'm sure they're not doing this, but it does feel a little bit like we're just rolling the same thing out week after week, and it's not working. And we haven't realized. I think if you look at the teams that we've played, you know, I don't think it's unreasonable for Villa fans to have expected to have yielded more points and better performances and more goals.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, I looked to those 10 men. Yeah, that whole narrative.

[Dan Bardell]

I look to those. I mean, we're hopeless against 10 men. That's a different story. I looked at the first eight games and thought, okay, the squad's maybe not where we want it, but it's a chance for a platform to start the start of the season off. We've done the opposite. And then the fixtures become a little bit more unkind. Especially when you get to December, we've got some really horrible games. You then starting to balance Thursday night with Sunday night, which we've been good at previously. But you don't know how they're going to cope with that this time round. It's a really, really difficult time at the moment and at the moment I've got to be honest, I don't see how it changed and I hate being negative but I don't see how it changes.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I don't want to be the report of doom, but ideally, or maybe in another situation they wouldn't have any points if you go through the draws Newcastle, no Isaac Gordon's players are number nine. Missed two chances better missed big chance early on they score that at home could run away from Villa and then sudden have a player sent off as well. So maybe three points are quite lucky to get.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, let's move on because next we will discuss some of the wider issues facing Villa and also Emery's future as well.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

This is the Athletic FC podcast with.

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[IO Akimolere]

Well Jacob, you've reported last night that Emery's long term ally Mon Mochi is set to leave his role as Villa president of football operations. Firstly, do you know why he's leaving and also who could be replacing him?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

You're awaiting confirmation at the moment. Roberto Larby will replace him. I've been told for since probably the deadline day that munchy future had been up for debate. It's a collective thing really in terms of he would like to go back to Spain for personal reasons, but at the same time something had to give a Villa, right? You know we talk about the nine at the starting 11 were here before Emery. But you look at the 28 players Emery science is coming, how many have really made an impact? And this is where I think the power struggle or power divide was When Embry and Monchi worked together at Sevilla when they won three Europa leagues, Monchi had even if not higher power than UNAI Emery. Now he came in to work under him. So Monchi will be bring a load of players to unai Emery and say what players you want. But ultimately it's Emery that vetoes and makes his decisions, right? And when you're in a window where you're still fighting PSR UF squad cause you've got all these things to worry about but you've got a manager that is pushing you to sign players and then you bring some players to him and then not the ones he wants and he prefers this one. Of course there's going to be debates and then if UNAI is listening to other people and he's not listening to you anymore, that could cause debates as well. But it was surprising because this is a power triangle. Montreu, Vigani, Emery that has brought immense success and then to see the first cracks in the Emory projects almost is not great. They've obviously bought a LBN in and he has got a history of Unai Emery right He coached Real Union, which is a team that Villa now own, but Em's boyhood club. So you probably are likely to see that the team and the way the structure of the club is ran is it's still going to be Emory fc, basically, it's still going to be his hierarchy, his structure, over a dozen Spanish staff. So you're really hedging your bets and you're going all in on Emery working this season and him more importantly, wanting to stay and believing that the project has still got legs.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, well, I mean, what choice do Villa have right now? I mean, it's not that you're going to get rid of the manager at this really precarious time in the season. And also with PSR issues, you know.

[Dan Bardell]

It'S not like you've got to get.

[IO Akimolere]

Rid of all those players. Surely this new appointment, should that give Villafan some sort of hope that things might turn around?

[Dan Bardell]

I think he's obviously got good pedigree, if you look at what he's done in Spain and some of the players he's kind of been around and brought to the club and what they've done in their career since being there. But every club is different, right? So the kind of permutations he's working at Sociedad are different to what you're going to be walking into a Villa. It's a different league. For example, Villa's recruitment will be very different style to Sasha Dad's recruitment as well. Fundamentally, I don't think anything will change for the reasons that Jacob just said. Look, I mean, look, I love my wife, I love my dog. Unai Emerys.

[IO Akimolere]

Was what's happened. Football trumps again.

[Dan Bardell]

Unai Emery is. Is up there as one of the most important people in my life for what he's done to Aston Villa. But I was saying to Jacob earlier that he is Villa's biggest strength. But I do feel now at the moment that there's certain things that come with him that are almost a little bit of a weakness for Villa as well, because the squad is lopsided, they've not got players in certain positions. I feel like attacking wise, everyone kind of wants to play in the same space. The age profile's not right and if Emery's the one who's got the final say over that over the last three years, yes, we've had a really successful three years, but it feels like that was all geared around the kind of short term. Now we need something long term and it's almost not there. We've not got players Coming through. We've not got, say, an older player in one position and a younger player who's ready to come and take that place. It all feels a little bit skewed at the moment. So I don't think a change of director of football is. Is going to really make a huge difference, if I'm honest.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I think the bigger issue is probably the evolution of squad. Right. They've been there for a. The new signings. One of the reasons why Munch's gone has not made a desired impact. The question is, these players, the Spider team, have been there for so long, have you now maximized their potential? Have they just got maybe old and they haven't. They haven't got anything left to give? Maybe they're not old in terms of actual age, but in terms of their time at Villa, have they got any. Can they go to that next level? Can you expect likes of John McIn, Matty Cash, Mings Watkins to keep pushing themselves to keep being in European competitions? Do you think at some point you're going to bottom out and other teams are going to catch up? So the question for me is not a case of Emery's structure, but it's more of a case of can he think, start to build longer term? Can he start to buy players where he's not just thinking, we need to win now. You saw in January ration Asensio. Yeah, on loan, over 500, 000 pound a week combined. We need to win now. Can you now start signing players that obviously benefit you in a short term, but are younger and can improve in the long term?

[Dan Bardell]

Has he done that anywhere? Like he's not done that anywhere?

[IO Akimolere]

If you look been there long enough.

[Dan Bardell]

Yeah, he's three years is the cycle, isn't it? If you look at Villarreal and Sevilla, from what I remember, he was operating with quite experienced squads and getting the best out of those experienced players. But then he was almost not there to take on the next phase, if you've got to worry about that.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I think so. I think with Morgan, Morgan Rogers has won. Right. But it's because he saw him while scouting against Middlesbrough for the FA cup game and he thought he was quite good. But he always wants players that are proven to him, so naturally they're going to be older.

[IO Akimolere]

Can I just also ask then, if we're talking about freshening this squad, what you guys have made of the. The summer transfers? I mean, it was late, some of them, and certain players wanted to leave and allowed to leave. And by that I mean Emil Martinez, what have you made of it? Because do you think the people that have come in are going to freshen this squad enough to at least carry them to January before they might have to maybe think again?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I think there's still a question mark. And the players have spoken to privately, to family, to friends, that they were crying out for freshness, but also players of high quality that can take them to that next level. They're seeing the likes of Newcastle sign, you know, try and sign these big players. They wanted Villa to do the same. And it probably doesn't help that that a lot of these players like Dan referenced didn't know where they were coming or going. Like Emmy Martinez might be coming or going. Watkins, McGinn, all these players. And that when you're building for a season, you're not sure if you're staying in your job or not. It's not. It's not great, is it?

[Dan Bardell]

No. A little bit of sympathy with Martinez. I don't think he handled himself as well as he could have done over that, that whole saga with Manchester United. But on the flip side of that, you know, if the players are told, look, if someone comes in for you, we're in a difficult situation here, you've got to go. I don't think you can then have a go at someone who's maybe agitated to make a move, question whether it should be to Manchester United and what they're about. But I do have a little bit of sympathy with him. I just think everything fills up in the air at the moment. Nothing feels certain. Like, if you'd have asked me, do I think Emery will be here for the next few years? This time last year, absolutely, 100%. Villa are doing well in the Champions League. You know, everything feels good. A year on, from probably about a year ago, we beat. Beat Bayern Munich in the Champions League. I don't feel certain about things now. People keep asking me, do you think he'll leave? Do you think he'll leave? I don't think he'll get the sack because I think Villa would be stupid to sack him. But I don't have the confidence that I did have a year ago that he's here for the long haul, because I think he wants to be operating at the absolute highest level possible in. In premium European competition. And with the way the rules are and the way Villa have been hit, I think it's gonna be hard for Villa to get back there, if I'm.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Honest, just quickly as well. In terms of Emmy Martinez, basically, the transfer strategy would change. Every day. Because sometimes Uno Emery would want to play in a certain position, but then he'd go home, maybe reassess and think, actually, I can move the player we already have into that position and therefore we need another one. So transfer strategy can feel a bit opaque from the outside and Martin was a good example. Right. So they said you can go. Right. This is like end of last season, he was telling everyone he wanted to go. He was very happy to leave. And Villa, and this is in our piece now, is they wanted Mark Flecken from Brentford. He was. They were advancing on talks to sign him, but then obviously a move for Emmy Martinez didn't line up and then they missed the boat on. On Flecken. So there are a number of players and if you go on deadline day, did Emery want them as first choice targets? Javier let Sancho Lindelof. No, but Sancho was on the shelf and they were willing to take a gamble. Lindelof was a free agent, obviously cost effective. And Harvey Elliott, okay, he's young, but Emery, White, Pakatar, ultimately, the recruitment is what it is. They've been stifled by psr, etc, but is this a team that are fulfilling Emery's needs and desires to improve every year? The squad's probably gone backwards.

[IO Akimolere]

When you mentioned Sancho, it got me thinking of another question Listener sent Ing and and in particular wide players, which is something Villa really lacking at this moment in time. Is that why didn't Villa push for Marcus Rashford to make that move more permanent after the relative success of his loan spell? Is that a PSR thing or did Marcus Rashford just fancy Barcelona?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Both. And they're pretty big issues. Pretty big issues in terms of the player probably doesn't want to come Barcelona. He was already down the line there. But also at that point, Villa didn't know how much money they had spent because none of the players had gone. And they were so tight with all these rules and they're going to incur or likely to incur a fine with UEFA for score cost rules. So they can't afford to pay whatever it is for Rashly if you're going to make it permanent. But also his massive salary and yeah, again, he probably didn't want to join either.

[Dan Bardell]

I'm not sure you have too many regrets, Marcus.

[IO Akimolere]

Well, we're getting loads of comments from you guys, so please keep them coming. Let's move on because next we'll discuss how Emry can turn Villa season around.

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[Jacob Tanzwell]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.

[IO Akimolere]

All right, so we've discussed a lot of the problems so far. How does Emery turn this around? Let's not forget that this is a team who got to the quarterfinals of the Champions League a few months ago. So look, this team have the ability this now. Does this season also hinge Dan on people like Ollie Watkins stepping up because that's another player who looked like he might be leaving this time last season as well. I think.

[Dan Bardell]

I think he's a collective. I think people will look at the striker because we're not scoring goals, but. Okay. Had a late chance on Sunday against Sunderland, but how many chances is he getting game to game? Not many. How many times is he touching the ball game to game? Not. Not a lot. I think Villa aren't getting the best out of what's at their disposal at the moment. But I do also think that, you know, we think of that night against psg. You're bringing Marco Sensor onto the pitch. You've got Marcus Rashford absolutely running them ragged. You know, Tillemans is fit at that point and was Villa's player of the season. Like it's a different Villa now. It's a. It's a slower Villa. I don't think people realize how much having Marcus Rashford just added some pace and power to that side and it was. It was crying out for it. I don't think Villa can get a better number nine than Ollie Watkins. I think on it, on his day, you know, he's at the top end of what Villa can attract at the moment. I think. Think you look at his record over the last two, three years under Emery, his record's right up there in terms of goals and assists for center forwards in Europe. But he looks miles off it at the moment. But he's. But he's not alone. I think it's hard for Watkins to step up with the way things are at the moment.

[IO Akimolere]

You know, 16 Premier League goals last season and 19 the year before. He's well off it at the moment, isn't he?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Yeah. And going into the season, people made their concerns that actually a lot of the attacking burden would fall on Ollie Watkins to finish and Morgan Rogers to deliver. Rogers is not an unknown quantity anymore. He's even himself. Defenders are getting tight to him. James Kos Tarkowski roughed him up in a way to Everton with Watkins. He's an example of something intangible. You can't quite put your finger on it, but he is suffering with confidence massively because he hasn't scored. But you've got to go back to January. He was available to leave in January, but John Duran had gone instead. So he didn't get his move to arsenal. And at 29, this could have been the last opportunity for him to go. And obviously Villa had rightly said, duran's going, you're staying. And okay. He's thinking, okay, I'm gonna be the number nine. Now. Marcus Rashford starts ahead of him in both legs against psg. A lone player starting ahead of you. What message does that send out? And then all of a sudden again you don't get your move for way your, your price and you probably the interest in you, the attraction of you is going down. And then you come sign to the season and you know that the manager probably hasn't got that belief in you because he put you on a bench for the biggest game game of his tenure. So yeah, he's a player that Villa would desperately need to want to step up. But I think he was at before the game gets sun, he was averaging like 11 passes per game. And when he does get the ball, it's head high. It's when he's got someone near him, he hasn't got the pace of anyone else to run in behind. There's a lot of pressure on him and a lot of pressure on Morgan Rogers.

[IO Akimolere]

Can I also ask a quick question before we move on to the next one? Is that what does fearless academy system look like right now? Because you know, like many teams, you can always hopefully look there and you know, I think about Max Damon who's at Arsenal right now, or Manieri who have come through a Villa miles behind everyone else.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

No, there's actually a lot of people and there's a perception that Villa have got a really strong academy. They won the FA Youth cup last year. They've got a lot of good players. The academy recruitment is really good, actually really strong. They've just, they signed this guy, George Hemings, young lad from Nottingham Forest and they're very aggressive in who they sign from other clubs in Premier League, in the efl. And he's seen as if he doesn't make it into the, into the first team, then you. We might as well give up.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Again, this is a consequence of short term thinking. You have to be at a top level. You have to come not only into the training group, but you've got to prove to Emory that you're of Champions League quality. And to go from FA Youth cup to playing in Champions League or wanting to be in the Champions League, it's a massive step.

[IO Akimolere]

Okay, Dan, any glimmers of hope? New signings?

[Dan Bardell]

Elliot Garrett had a decent game at Sunderland on Sunday. I liked a few of the brief touches I saw from him. It's hard to gauge these players coming into what Villa are right now because they're not coming into a winning team, they're not coming into a team that's full of confidence and playing well. So it will take time. Sancho, I think he's the one actually that I think actually fits what we're trying to do in terms of his position in the team. I can see where we might play him. We disagree on this, but I can see him as the left number 10.

[IO Akimolere]

10.

[Dan Bardell]

But then you're almost back to kind of playing three number tens because you've got Rogers and then you'd expect Harvey Elliott to play as well. This is what I'm talking about with the recruitment and the skewed squad that we've got now. It's all the players want to play in the same place, but absolutely nobody wants to play on the right wing and there's no width whatsoever. I was pleased to get Elliot because I didn't expect him to come in. I wasn't the type of signing I was expecting on, on deadline day. Villa kept the powder dry because they were waiting to see what headroom they were going to have and that they used that well to get Harvey Elliott in and he'll become a permanent player after he's. After he's played 10 games. But as I say, it's hard to come into that team at the moment. Elliott came on at the weekend and was almost told off for being too quick when I would say, well, we need a bit right now at the moment. It's not bizarre, isn't it, how many.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Players have come in and strengthened or a part of Emery's plans. Right. That's, that's the reason why he's starting nine of the 11 that you know were there before him. That these players, he takes a lot to earn em's trust and to play consistently. Maybe Amadou Anana 50 million club record sign he struggled with injuries, maybe he could force his way in. But for the likes of Harvey Elliot, who wasn't his first choice, target him coming in and expecting to start straight away and impress him was always going to be a tough ask. But we, we, we talk and we're very negative to understandably. But it feels just strange, doesn't it, that you're only five games into a league season and Villa fans, staff, players already feel quite weary and it feels like this has been two or three seasons, not just five games.

[IO Akimolere]

Well, in that, in that vein then, what does Unite Emory need to do to keep his job this season? Because I, I don't think it's unforeseeable, Dan, to see Villa finishing bottom end of the table and winning the Europa League, for instance. I mean, that. Would you take that?

[Dan Bardell]

I got asked this the other day. I want to take 17th in the Europa League. And I said five weeks ago I wouldn't have done. But right now it feels like I'd be stupid not, not to snap someone's hand off for it. The Europa League' Villa, it's important this week.

[IO Akimolere]

It's also a competition he loves very much.

[Dan Bardell]

Yeah, it's important this week because they need a win. Yeah, they get a win against Bologna, who they beat last season, on Thursday night. Maybe that kick starts things a little bit. Kind of being away from the Premier League might be good for them. But then I thought that last week in the Carabao cup and that and that wasn't the case. I think it kills two birds with one stone. You know, we're talking about Villa having an aging squad. I'm aging. I was. I was turned 40 last week. Villa last won a trophy when I was 10.

[Panoxyl / Ollie Advertiser]

10?

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah.

[Dan Bardell]

Like, I thought that was normal. And it hasn't been normal. If Villa can somehow win that tournament, they get a trophy and they get into the Champions League, which is where Emery wants to be and where the players will want to get back to. I think it's huge in Villa season, especially given how they've started as well. I think the Europa League almost takes on more importance, but I don't want to be in that situation where you kind of throw in the league like spurs did to try and win a trophy. Because ultimately your Premier Leagues, your, your bread and butter that you're going to watch every week. And I can't take a season like it's been the first five games.

[IO Akimolere]

Is it more about unai losing his job or unai saying, I've had enough, I need to go somewhere else?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I think the latter is more likely because of the reason we've mentioned. Right. In terms of the. The complete conviction in his project. We could be here next week and they could have beaten Bologna, beating Fulham, two wins. And you do expect them to pick up Emery's unbelievable manager. And they will pick up at some point. The question is, are the deep rooted issues going to come back and rear the head? So the fact they haven't got a robbery, the fact that this is a manager led recruitment can it's this to speak of longevity, are the players, the fact that they're Asian, can you turn over the squad whilst Emery being happy with the. The progress? Because at some point you're probably going to have a dip. Does he want that? He's been in Europe for 15 consecutive season or even. Probably even more, he buzzes off Europe. This what people around him. He loves Europe. He doesn't enjoy coaching anywhere near as much if he's not in European competitions. So would he accept a year without Europe or would he? Maybe if a club came in for him, be it Manchester United, be it a club in Saudi Arabia, and he. And he gets an opportunity for new projects. Does he turn it down right now? You probably say he does, because of course, he's got everything. He got the world at Aston Villa. But if this continues or if they have a good run of form, then they go back into this type of form. I think there's a question to be asked.

[IO Akimolere]

Okay, gents, let's shake it all off. Let's do a little quiz. Let's. Let's get into some more detail around Aston Villa. Just a little fun. Fun to finish things off. All right, this is it. Can you name the top five signings in terms of transfer fee in the Unai Emery era? Fees according to the website Transfer Market. You've already mentioned one of them.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Can you remember it in terms of price?

[IO Akimolere]

Prices?

[Jacob Tanzwell]

What? Spent?

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah.

[Dan Bardell]

Oh, sorry, I have. Sorry.

[IO Akimolere]

Yes. Do you remember how much for.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

This is different compared to who you ask. 45 million.

[IO Akimolere]

Million? Yes, about 55 million euros.

[Dan Bardell]

Okay, that's good, Anana.

[IO Akimolere]

Yes, we already mentioned that. Do you remember what price?

[Dan Bardell]

50 odd.

[IO Akimolere]

Yeah, it's like €59 million.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Ian Matson.

[Dan Bardell]

Yes. Well done, Jacob.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

37 and a half.

[IO Akimolere]

35. If you're. If you're going pounds, it's about €44.5 million.

[Dan Bardell]

Another one.

[IO Akimolere]

Spanish.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Spanish, yes.

[IO Akimolere]

Come on, lads. And one more. One more. Five. This is the last on the list.

[Dan Bardell]

It's less than Paltar. He was about 20.

[IO Akimolere]

It's not much. Much less than Pal Torres.

[Dan Bardell]

Gasan.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

Yes.

[IO Akimolere]

Oh, you run it back there because he cleaned up.

[Dan Bardell]

I need. I needed something. I needed something.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

I was like, you're a bystander, Dan.

[Dan Bardell]

I was like, Villa in front of Goal.

[IO Akimolere]

No, I know. Honestly, that was great. Appreciate it. That was 30 million euros as well. So, number one, Amadou Andana from Everton, 59 million euros. Musa Diaby from Leverkusen, 55 million euros. Ian Matson from Chelsea, 44.5 million euros. Paul Torres from Villarreal, 33 million euros. And finally, Evan Gassand from Nice for 30 million euros. Gents, let's leave it there. Jacob, Dan, really appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll catch you soon.

[Jacob Tanzwell]

You've been listening to The Athletic FC Podcast the producers of Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and J.J. beal executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC podcast so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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