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- [00:00]
Anne
I was never really a runner. The way I see running is a gift. Especially when you have stage four cancer.
- [00:08]
Tim Bezbachenko
I'm Ann.
- [00:09]
Anne
I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute.
- [00:14]
Tim Bezbachenko
To give people like me a chance.
- [00:16]
Anne
To thrive in life, even with cancer. Join bank of America in helping Anne's cause. Give if you can@b of a.com supportann.
- [00:24]
Tim Bezbachenko
What would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not endorsement.
- [00:28]
Anne
By bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025 the Kids Are still at practice and I have no idea what's for dinner. You can get a rotisserie chicken and two sides for just $15 in as fast as an hour with Walmart Express delivery. Who said that? Who's in my house? Don't play with me cause I'm not the one. It's just your friendly Walmart announcer. This is a commercial. Oh OK. You were saying dinner for a family was just $15? Yep. It'll be at your door by the time you get the kids home from practice. Order now. Welcome to your Walmart. Subject to availability restrictions and fees apply. Now that was a helpful commercial. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.
- [01:06]
Matt Slate
Please, for the love of everything good.
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Anne
In this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.
- [01:12]
Tim Bezbachenko
Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.
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Anne
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- [01:29]
Tim Bezbachenko
See full terms@mintmobile.com the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [01:34]
Anne
Network.
- [01:40]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. Yesterday we heard part one of our multi club ownership series as we learnt about how MCOs work and their purpose. Today we get real world examples hearing from inside the operations whose clubs include sides from the Premier League and Major League Soccer. So what's it like to own and manage multiple clubs in different leagues and sometimes in different sports? We've got Matt Slate with us again today and also we've got a very special guest, Tim Bezbachenko, President of Black Knight Football. Tim, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. And you're actually speaking from Bournemouth's brand new training ground, one of your clubs. I mean talk us through this because this really shows progress, it shows momentum, it gives us a real sense of where you're trying to get to really, doesn't it?
- [02:36]
Tim Bezbachenko
That it does. And first off, thanks for having me, guys. Yeah. We're sitting here taping from. From, you know, the. The new training ground in Canford Magna, which is just north of Bournemouth Town Center. It is a brand new training facility. The staff is moving in this week. The coaches will arrive today and then the players will start training tomorrow. And I think we can say it's all surreal because it's been a long time coming for this club. I believe they started the plans for this back in at least 2017. And it's been an emotional week for a lot of the staff as a club like Bournemouth is elevating its level to be in some ways world class. Right. This facility is state of the art in every way. And I think it's the first step in Bill Foley's vision to elevate the club to not only be in the Premier League consistently, but to compete. To compete in every way. And I think that starts, or I know that it starts with the environment that the players and staff are in. So the moment the players walk through the doors, they know that they have what they need around them to fulfill their potential. It's been a wonderful few days. There's a little. There's some snagging we still have to do around the building, but it's going to be a nice week for us.
- [03:52]
Matt Slate
Tim, you mentioned Bill Foley, who's the main owner. What can you tell us about Bill, what he's trying to do? And also, if you could just mention, I think there's some interesting names in the ownership group. Michael B. Jordan is one that I think our listeners, our readers will be aware of. How does the ownership group work?
- [04:09]
Tim Bezbachenko
Yeah, it really starts and ends with Bill Foley and his vision. He had great success as a businessman in the U.S. west Point grad. And he leads with humility, yet can combine that with his. His vision and his ambition for the club. So the way it works is Bill's really engaged, if not daily, certainly weekly. He's watching all the matches. We have consistent phone calls and teams meetings and board meetings across our clubs where Bill is involved. There's actually another group called Kanai that Bill is a chairman of and their president, Ryan Caswell, is also involved. So we are frequently getting on meetings where we are coordinating the strategic plan for not just Born Smith, but across the group. And that's kind of how it works from an ownership perspective.
- [04:59]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you talk about across the group, you know, teams also Auckland FC in the A league, Hibernian in the Scottish Premier League, Lorient in League R. And you know, league, duh.
- [05:10]
Matt Slate
I'm afraid league by For. They're on their way back though.
- [05:12]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, they're coming, they're coming. But actually, do think about it, they're top of Ligue Deux. And also look at Hibernian, who are doing well in the split picks up Bournemouth. Conversations around Europe, I mean, is this where you guys saw it going? You know, we talk about ambition. You've got various clubs in different territories now operating at their optimum.
- [05:32]
Tim Bezbachenko
Yeah, yeah, look, the vision is to unite this family of clubs through performance and really achieve player optimization and shared learning. And that's a lot of words. That's sort of the words that are on the wall. But what it means is collaboration in every sense. And we want each club to be successful. Each club has autonomy and a different identity and we want to respect their history and tradition, which I think differentiates us from some of the other multi club ownership groups. Right. We want to achieve the goals set out by the various owners of the groups, including Black Knight. And I think you're seeing that at a club like Hibernian with the Gordon family, Ian Kit and Colin Gordon, who've owned the club. And then we came in and we're trying to have a top five finish, achieve a top five finish every year and maybe get into that third position like we're in right now. So that you're at the heels of Celtic and Rangers. And I think that's what's special about Black Knight is we can do that while also fulfilling our goals within the network of shared learning and moving players and maybe achieving some synergies on the performance and medical side.
- [06:42]
Matt Slate
Tim, I accidentally promoted Laurie on too early, but, you know, last season there wasn't relegation. Right. And we often talk to people, you know, new investors into European football and we often say, you know, relegation, you know, have you got your heads around relegation? I mean, that's a sort of, from a business case point of view, that's pretty tough, isn't it? So how did you deal with that setback? You could appear to have dealt with it quite well, but, you know, how did the group take that?
- [07:13]
Tim Bezbachenko
Well, I have to say the actual relegation predated me coming on board. So I could escape your question a little bit, but I did that question. Yeah, that's tiptoe here. No, what, what I. What I did come on board to. To hear Louis Ferri and Bill and Ryan in the group discuss how we're going to get back to. To Liga and I think that's really important. Right, because. Because when you're relegated and depending on the country, it's, it's. It's more difficult than others. But how are we shaping the roster and making sure that we don't sell players that are needed to get the club promoted right back up? You know, that bounce back is important and I think the club has done a really good job in the selection, developing talent like Junior Croupey and Arthur and a number of other young players on Laurian's roster that are helping not only develop, but helping them be promoted back up to the first. To the first Division. You know, it's obviously still. It's not finished yet. It's competitive at the top of League two, but we feel like we're in a good position.
- [08:13]
Ayo Akimwaleere
What are the challenges of owning a club the size of Bournemouth? You know, they're clearly performing brilliantly in the Premier League this season. But, you know, is there a ceiling to success with a club this size? And I think it's the size I've been down to the stadium. It's a very small stadium in a particular part of the country. Are there thoughts about expansion? Are there thoughts about how great you can make this club?
- [08:35]
Tim Bezbachenko
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's what we talk about every day, is what we can do with this club and how far we can go. Certainly the training ground helps. The next stage is the stadium. We've looked at building a new stadium or renovating the current one. Currently we're planning on the latter. So I'm involved with a group of people here that are working with the city to get the planning in place, place to help renovate vitality. And the goal would be to. To expand capacity over three stages. The first one will take us to 16,000, then we'll get to 20. And then the third phase, maybe even up to sort of 24, 25,000 people. So that's really important, as we all know, to generate more revenue so that you can improve your roster. You know, at the end of the day, Bill's vision is to. And the Black Knight's vision is to increase revenues that eventually will be put back into the squad and because we're going to need it to compete. So obviously the TV broadcast revenue helps, but you need to get all levels going at a club in order to maintain your position in this very competitive league. And so that. That's the commercial side with sponsorships, that's increasing capacity at the stadium and it Also involves, you know, sales of players like Dominic Solanke. So it's going to happen. And that's, that's modern football right there is, is how does a club in the English Premier League main its position despite being one of the smallest, if not the smallest stadium in the league currently? And I think that's our challenges until we have that expanded stadium. How are we retaining our talent? How are we developing players in our academy with this brand new training ground? How are we leaning on Andoni and Thiago and the whole football operations staff to get us to where we want to go?
- [10:21]
Matt Slate
Tim, I remember when I spoke to Bill when he was on the way in and I was absolutely intrigued by his story, particularly the Vegas Golden Knights story. I know we're going off into a bit of a tangent here, perhaps a little bit outside Black Knight football. Anyway, but for those, for our listeners that don't know Vegas Golden Knights, they're ice hockey expansion team, ice hockey team in the desert, you know, Las Vegas and were immediately successful. Right. So for UK listeners that's unusual for an expansion team to be immediately successful. I know it happens a bit more in NHL than some of the other sports, but I don't want to get too technical here, but they have been successful and they've continued to be successful. So I think that's really, really interesting. And, and the other thing I think about that Vegas Golden Night story, which I think does lead into what Bournemouth can do and I believe are already doing, is the entertainment part of it. Bill is unashamedly an entertainer. He thinks, you know, football's in the entertainment business and he wants to make going to a game fun. Is that happening? I haven't been this season. So is it fun to go to a Bournemouth game?
- [11:21]
Tim Bezbachenko
It's unbelievably fun. And having been fortunate to be a part of a group, a multi sport group in my previous club, actually both by clubs with the previous owner owned an NFL and an NBA team and then the one in Toronto owned the, the Maple Leafs in the NHL and NBA. So to be a part of a match day experience that goes beyond the 90 minutes is something that's really important in modern day sports and entertainment. And, and the Golden Knights, Vegas Golden Knights do it better than anyone in my opinion in North America.
- [11:53]
Matt Slate
From, from tell our listeners a little what do they do? Because it's wild, isn't it?
- [11:58]
Tim Bezbachenko
Well, it's just the moment that you walk through the doors, from the lights to the music, it's just at a whole new level. It's about going beyond what's happening on the ice and to have the smells and the sounds be more than just a game. And it's hard because I think over here, having now experienced the past eight months, but followed it my entire life, it's about football and you have to strike the right balance. So while we introduce new elements at Vitality, which our president of business operations, Jim Frivola actually was at Vegas Golden Knights and he's done a tremendous job of introducing new elements to the fan experience, but not going too far and listening to the fans, the supporters, but also asking them to try something out. The video boards are an example, which I've noticed that some stadiums do not have video boards and I think that elevates the experience. Why should the fans at home have a better experience than people in the venue? So they want to see a replay.
- [13:03]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. Tim, you bring up a really good point actually in regarding the fans. And I know you've been down in the south coast now for a while with your family acclimatizing quite nicely. What are you learning about that connection with Bournemouth fans and their club and what are you looking to maximize within that space? Because we talk about multi club ownerships, but the connection with the ownership and the fans is also super important.
- [13:25]
Tim Bezbachenko
Number one, I've learned that it runs deep. The connection to the run, the club runs deep and it goes back generations. There's not a day that I walk by, you know, walk through town where if I meet someone and I mention that I work with AFC Bournemouth, that they say, I remember when they were in the bottom of the, you know, the third or fourth tier and, and I would go with my father and, or my, my parents and we would go to the match and now look at them, they're flying. And. And I think that's what's so powerful and palpable about the English Premier League and English football pyramid generally. And it's what brought, I think Bill and Black and White to it is, yes, it is about the stars on the pitch and acquiring the best talent because it's the top of the food chain globally. But at the end of the day, it's about the community. And what I always say is we are stewards of the club for a period of time. The clubs are for the fans and they will always be for the community. And so you have to connect with them each match day. You have to listen to them. Sometimes you have to do things that don't please them, like moving players on because that's the global game and it is a global economy in that sense. But you can never forget where it started. You can never forget that.
- [14:39]
Matt Slate
Tim, it's interesting you said that Bournemouth are top of the food chain and Bill's always been quite honest about that, hasn't he? And I've just. Because this whole series we are going to talk about the pros and cons of multi club ownership and one of the more obvious cons, the more negatives if you like, is those clubs who are further down the food chain. You know, you'll have heard this. I don't want to be anyone's farm team. I'm not a feeder club. So how do you communicate that? And the one I know has been an issue is Lorient and I imagine Hibbs fans are looking at Bournemouth and going well, you know, look at our, look at our history, look at our fan base. Why are we somebody else's feeder club?
- [15:21]
Tim Bezbachenko
We don't look at the clubs as feeder clubs. I think within the multi club ownership groups there are, there are different groups that do consider their clubs feeder clubs. It doesn't mean, mean that we're not looking for the players to move up the pyramid and I think Bill has been clear about that. But we have to respect their own identity and what they're trying to achieve and that's really important especially right now at a club like Laurient where they're, where they're trying to get promoted. But we've done good transact that, that we feel like benefit. The clubs have benefited from the moves like Dango Utaro and then we've recently done Junior Croupie but we've also loaned, you know, allowed Junior Croupie to remain at Laurant so that they can achieve their goals. If, if he were to go have gone to another club outside of our network, I don't know if he stays at Lauron. So I think that that same goes for the transactions we plan to do at Hibs. Is what's good and suitable for, for, for both clubs what helps achieve their objectives. But ultimately players want to realize their potential, they want to move up the ladder. So whether or not that's within Black Knight or not, we're never going to stand in a player's way if it as long as we can find a mutually beneficial situation. So we just feel like through the club network we're achieving two things. You're controlling your supply and there's costs and risk mitigation. Right. And that's the hardest thing about acquiring players is you don't really truly know them. You can do as much scouting, as much recruiting, you can have as many interviews as you want. But until he's that player is in the locker room out on the training pitch with the other players, you don't know how he's going to fit in with the group. But when you have a within your own network, I can go to the training, I can go to the matches, I can sit in the locker room at one of the clubs and see how he interacts after a loss. And that really is what brings people together. It's not the wins and the champions, it's championships. It's actually when you lose and who's there and who's around you. And that's what I think is the fabric that brings, you know, can bring a multi club together beyond, you know, the single crest of one club. Yeah.
- [17:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Do not forget on tomorrow's pod we'll be answering your questions on multi club ownership. Plenty of ways to get in touch. Comment below if you are watching on YouTube or put your questions to Matt on X. Right. Next we'll continue our chat with Tim and Matt on how to run multiple football clubs all at once.
- [17:44]
Matt Slate
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO acemolero.
- [17:48]
Anne
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- [17:54]
Matt Slate
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- [17:56]
Tim Bezbachenko
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- [17:58]
Anne
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- [18:00]
Tim Bezbachenko
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Matt Slate
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Tim Bezbachenko
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Matt Slate
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Tim Bezbachenko
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- [18:14]
Anne
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- [18:17]
Tim Bezbachenko
Terms and conditions apply. What's my subscription to the New York.
- [18:20]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Times have me doing this week?
- [18:22]
Tim Bezbachenko
Preparing a strawberry pretzel pie, solving spelling bee with no hints. Planning a trip to one of the 52 best places to go, getting to the bottom of the big pants trend. And I'm finally replacing my vacuum with a recommendation I can trust. What will your support subscription to the Times have you do? Why not find out with our best offer? Go to nytimes.com subscribe.
- [18:52]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Well Tim, we're looking at multi club structures and models in general. You know, your structure holds various sports in its umbrella. We're just thinking actually in terms of how knowledge is shared between both spaces whether we look at hockey or whether look at football. Is that how this operation also works as well?
- [19:11]
Tim Bezbachenko
Yeah, there has to be mechanisms from which information is shared and so for Us, it's first and foremost it starts with scouting and recruitment because it's about the players and putting them into the best position as possible. So we have brought on board individuals to help with pooling the players and so that we can satisfy the needs of all the clubs across the group and to be a resource that's at the end of the day we're trying to be a resource and to help these clubs be better. And that starts with scouting, recruitment and then the other piece of that, the layer above that or with that is the data and analytics side. So how are we working with third party service providers or our own data to create more information on the player recruitment side and then that leads to squad management. How are you sharing materials to communicate leading into a window? What are the needs of the club? We know that evolves daily as you lead into the window and certainly during the window. And I think that's really important because very quickly a player could become available and Hibbs will want to go acquire that player, which could have a knock on effect across, you know, their roster and certainly the plans within our group. Because, you know, if we're looking at, for example a player at Bournemouth who maybe needs to be loaned and we feel like Hibbs is an opportunity to, to put that player into a good environment, well then that could change as Hibbs fills out its roster. One good example would be Alex Paulsen, who's currently at Auckland. Goalkeeper, you know, the decision now is for us is, is does, you know, would it make sense to move him within the group and Hibs could be a good location for him. So there's constant communication, there's weekly meetings, there's visits, you know. Right. In a couple weeks actually, Hibbs coach David Gray is going to come down and take in a session down at Bournemouth and I think that's important to have it consistent uniform, you need to have consistent values across the group. Everybody needs to know what the needs are of each other's clubs so that the sporting directors can speak. It's not just myself and Michael colleagues who are doing the communication. We want the sporting directors talking to each other daily so that there's that trust that builds across the group. So you got the scouting and recruitment data and analytics, the squad management piece, coaching analysis. Our head of performances are speaking frequently and those things all come together, I would say on a weekly basis to, to formulate the interworkings of Black Knight.
- [21:39]
Ayo Akimwaleere
So you wouldn't have hockey for instance, having conversations with football or soccer, for instance, you know, two different sports but any intel shared at all, you know.
- [21:49]
Tim Bezbachenko
We haven't done that as much as across our football teams. Now I would say our communications and commercial signs have synergies across Vegas Golden Knights. So when you talk about someone like Jim Frivola and myself, we are talking with Tosi, who runs communications for Vegas Golden Knights, and he is consistent, you know, he is regularly in contact with us in terms of shaping our narrative. How are we connecting with the community, how are we improving our matchday experience for fans? So I would say on the commercial side, in the past I have, in my experience at a previous multi club, multi sport group, I have looked at performance across hockey and football. It's just challenging because the schedules don't line up to get people and talking all, you know, regularly. And I think that's the challenge with us is, is sometimes the, the schedules and the time zones just don't always match up in a line.
- [22:46]
Matt Slate
Yeah, that makes sense. Tim, you. I thought it was very interesting that you, you said earlier that you'd never stand in the way of a player that wants to sort of move on. And you know, that's. That makes sense. You've created a little walled garden. Ideally, they would stay within the group, but if, you know, Dominic Solanke comes along and wants to move on and you're gonna, you're gonna bank the transfer fee. All good. I would be failing in my job if I did not ask you if the same thing applies to coaches and managers.
- [23:13]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yes, good question.
- [23:15]
Tim Bezbachenko
I don't want to stand in for Bill on this, but I think he said from the very beginning that he wants people to choose to want to be here. And I think that stands for players and coaches. And so if you are going to be sitting with Andoni over the next few months, you're going to talk about what are his goals and ambitions. And what I know is that I think that they will match with Black Knights and with Bormas. I really do, because I think there's no ceiling to Bill's ambition for this club. And so we hope and plan for it to match with Andoni's, but, you know, he's a really good human being, our leader, and I think that's. You would like to say that that's the norm within the business, but unfortunately it's not. And he's a great person to work for. And it obviously has to align. It can't be something where Bournemouth doesn't get what it needs out of the transaction. But when you're talking with individuals like the head Coach or all of the players you want to find alignment.
- [24:16]
Matt Slate
Well, that just leads me nicely into my last question. I don't know if I've got another one, but where do you see Black Knight in five years time? And I mean, like you, I mean Bill, where's the group? What does success look like?
- [24:30]
Tim Bezbachenko
Yeah, I think we're. Right now we're in sort of phase one. We're assessing and we're in creation mode where we're coming up with three to five year strategy. So we're in growth mode. So I think we're still looking at potentially acquiring another club. We did a strategic partnership with Kyoto Sanga and the J League in Japan. We're talking with MLS teams about a potential strategic partnership there. So in five years, I think that we have grown in size. I think we've grown, made the ties between the clubs stronger. I think we'd increase the number of transactions between the clubs. I think especially in the recruitment side, when you look at the youth players across the world want to play in Europe, when you're looking at my experience down in South America where they maybe would come to the US and then. But ultimately they do want to be in the Premier League. So you want to see the ties within the pathway from our club to Hibs, to L'Oreal, from Bournemouth to those clubs all the way down and around the world to be stronger. So I think in five years, you know, if we're speaking, I would like to see the number of players that have moved increase, obviously the growth and then, you know, we'd love to play in Europe and certainly each of our clubs or a couple of our clubs are in positions now where they're in the mix. But we're in sport for a reason. We want trophies. Who doesn't? It's some of the best experience I've had in my career is lifting trophies with, with people that you work with and that you care about. And I don't think it should be any different for our clubs.
- [26:01]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Tim Bespechen, co president of Black Knight Football, thank you so much for joining us.
- [26:06]
Matt Slate
Thank you, Tim.
- [26:06]
Tim Bezbachenko
Thanks for having me, guys.
- [26:07]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Well, next we'll hear from Larry Berg, co managing owner of Los Angeles Football Club.
- [26:21]
Matt Slate
This is the Athletic FC podcast with I.O.
- [26:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Acamolera. Well, let's switch our focus to another big MCO, LAFC. The LAFC group has invested in teams in Switzerland and Austria and they've got a joint venture with Bayern Munich called Red and Gold, which owns academies in Africa and also in Uruguay. Here's Matt in conversation with LAFC's co managing owner, Larry Berg.
- [26:51]
Matt Slate
Well, look, Larry, thanks so much for joining us. This is Larry Berg. Start off by introducing yourself, Larry. I mean, tell me a little bit about who you are and how you got into soccer.
- [27:00]
Anne
Sure. I started playing eight years old in 1974, which was not typical always at that time. And I remained a superfan since somewhere along the line, after being in a private equity career, I invested in AS Roma and then I invested in Swansea. But in both cases I was pretty much a minority passive investor. And then LAFC came along, Los Angeles Football Club and the MLS and myself and a few partners bought into that club, which is in my hometown of Los Angeles. So that's been a lot of fun. So now I'm all soccer, all the time.
- [27:31]
Matt Slate
You've already mentioned some of the teams that you've previously been involved with. You're now an investor in lafc, which we know about. Tell me about the rest of the group, because I think your group, as opposed to some of the other ones we've talked about, is really fascinating. There's something quite unique about it.
- [27:45]
Anne
So it all started we got together at Bayern Munich pretty much two, two and a half years ago, and they were interested in doing a network. We had always thought about a network, but we didn't know that we could handle that, in part because LAFC was still early in its maturation. But with Bayern's help and added value, we felt like this would be a really interesting way to go about it, where Bayern sort of checks the box for an elite European club and of course all the things that brings with players and scouting and expertise, et cetera. And we were perceived by them as being an elite MLS North American club. So without any cross ownership whatsoever, we kind of start with what we like to say is, you know, two rungs in the ladder and then the goal would be to add other rungs so that a player could both discover a player and help develop a player at very young ages around the world, but then move them along and try to get them first team minutes at the highest level they can handle, whatever that may be. If that's Bayern Munich, that's fantastic. If that's lafc, that's great. So the first, the first club we got involved with was Rossing Montevideo, which is in Uruguay. LAFC had been very active in Uruguay, actually had more of a brand in Uruguay than Bayern Munich did, believe it or not. Just because we had been there on the ground, we had acquired a number of players from Uruguay, we spent a lot of time there and they also had really good youth development. So we looked for good youth development. We looked for, obviously, countries that were stable and secure and in great soccer nations. Uruguay is an unbelievable, you know, punch above your weight soccer nation. And so it started there. Then we added a academy in Gambia called Gambino Stars and that covered Africa. You can never really cover Africa, but that was a foothold in Africa, which is now expanded from Gambia to Senegal and Cameroon. And the talent there is is unbelievable. The professional, the development that they brought us was very exciting and frankly, it's a little less, you know, it's a little more untapped. Right. So more, more opportunity to find perhaps diamonds in the rough. So I would say both those places were opportunities to find talent young. In the case of Rossing, they also have an incredible club. They've made Copa suit Americana last two years. And then we, meaning lafc, but not Bayern Munich, went and bought Grasshopper first division Switzerland. And then we opportunistically acquired Innsbruck FC Wacker, which was in fourth division Austria, for a variety of rules reasons. Bayern can't co own them, but they can still help us with loans of players and that sort of thing. And so we picked those countries in particular partly because of, well, partly due to buy in price. Our goal was to invest in players, not necessarily overdo it on the clubs. And then if you look at the ability to make a European tournament, you know, you had to be in a situation where you weren't dominated by giants that you'd never be able to keep up with. If you look at the number of foreign players they allow, you wanted to be in a situation where we could have player flows that made sense and not be too restrictive. So a variety of things came together to turn that into the network. And then in the future, we would hope to perhaps add Asia, maybe some other clubs. But right now we have enough to handle and we're just trying to make what we have today work.
- [30:48]
Matt Slate
So it sounds like the dream scenario would be to find some amazing players in Western Africa, in South America, sort of move them up your ladder, up your rungs, maybe get them some playing time in your Swiss team or your Austrian team, and then ideally, maybe MLS buy in. That's the dream scenario to a certain extent, yeah.
- [31:09]
Anne
But also, you also want to win trophies, right? And so to make the flywheel work, winning trophies kind of covers a lot of things. Number one, you make money by winning trophies. You go further along in tournaments and it helps reinvest in Players and create the flywheel number two. When you win trophies, that means you're doing something right. It means the players you're developing, who first, in the case of Rossing, will first play for Rossing, are being very successful. And frankly, they're more showcased, they're worth more, etc. And they're tested on a higher level. So if you, if you're Rossing and you make the tournaments, you're playing teams from Brazil and Argentina, et cetera. So winning trophies is key, but as part of that, you're also hoping to move some players along. So we had a player in Rossing that moved to Grasshopper. And so you take a player that wanted to be there. Obviously if he could have made Bayern Munich, I'm sure he would have wanted to be in Bayern Munich. But in this case, Grasshopper was the right answer. Sometimes it'll be Grasshopper, sometimes it'll be lafc. But it's important to note that we're very early in this. We've only been part of Grasshopper for a little over a year. We've only been part of Rossing and Gambinos for a year and a half. And Innsbruck also is about that year plus. So it's early days, but we feel like we have a lot of proof of concept. We have a number of players both from Rossing and from Gambinos, that have been either sold or loaned to First Division Portugal, First Division Belgium, Argentina, et cetera. And I'm hoping that over time we'll just have that many more players. And as you know, there's sell ons with these players. So you don't only loan or sell, you participate going forward. And you also have the ability in some cases to move them back into your network. So we're just getting started, but so far so good.
- [32:47]
Matt Slate
And Larry, just to be clear, because I speak to people like you, people who are either already investing in clubs or want to invest in clubs, and I often sort of say, do you see a genuine return on investment here or is this just fun? Or is it both?
- [33:01]
Anne
You know, we get asked this all the time. I would say both, but it's funny if you ask me. I would say, clearly it was a lot about the fun and nobody wants to lose money, but a lot about the fun. If you ask my partner, he would say it's about the investment because he doesn't want it to seem like a vanity project. So it's funny how the two people making the same investments can look at it a different way. I would say as Roma turned out not to be a good investment and nor has Swansea. So we've learned the hard way that investing in European football is not for the faint of heart. Lafc, it appears to look like a very good investment if you look at the third party valuations. Obviously the entire structure of North American MLS is different. We don't have promotion, relegation. Los Angeles is an incredible city. It's one of the reasons I think Bayern Munich chose us. The fact that you'd be in Los Angeles in North America is a big positive. Being in Munich in Germany is a big positive. So I would say it's some of both. But I don't think you can do this unless you're passionate and I think you have to look at it as a long term investment. So if you had a certain amount of money and you were looking to maximize returns, you'd probably do something else. But that doesn't mean you can't do what. No.
- [34:10]
Matt Slate
Well, something else is boring, right? Well, you're having fun, clearly. I can tell. But you're not thinking about dividends, are you? Dividends are a dirty word, certainly in European soccer. Your return on investment is on the way out, isn't it?
- [34:25]
Anne
So it's a long term investment and I think we should separate LAFC and prior to that Roma and Swansea from the network. So LAFC is something I'd like to own the rest of my life. Certainly no dividends. Certainly in some cases capital calls team appreciation in the community. Fantastic. The network is designed. I'm not local, I don't live in Montevideo, I don't live in Gambia, I don't live in Zurich, I don't live in Innsbruck, I don't live in Munich. So by definition it's a little bit more on the investment side. It is also fun, but it is a lot of extra work and it puts a. It's a real tax on my management team. So we do that because we think we can make LAFC better. I think when you're in the middle of player flows in different continents, I think that makes you a better scouting department, it makes you a better recruiter. I think it puts you in the middle of more things and therefore I do think it will pay off for LAFC on a player basis to be better, win trophies, coming back to winning trophies. But this one is more about hopefully at some point, sooner rather than later, not the rest of my lifetime, it will pay dividends now. Those dividends will be reinvested, they'll be reinvested in players. You Know, if LAFC never pays a dividend for the next 30 years, as long as we're not losing too much money, that would certainly be okay. As long as we're creating value and helping the community, et cetera. In order for a network to work, you do have to have the flywheel, and the flywheel does include money.
- [35:50]
Matt Slate
Well, one of the reasons I was really keen to speak to you because I am really intrigued by this network concept, which I'm hearing more and more. But equally your focus on academies, particularly in hotbeds, you know, talent hotbeds. Other people have tried it. I think they found it hard, frankly. How's that going? If we just, if we just focus on Gambinos in Gambia, how is that going and how do you sort of see that developing over the next, I don't know, two, three years?
- [36:17]
Anne
It's definitely hard. It's hard geographically, it's hard to get there. There, it's hard culturally, it's hard when the players move and sometimes it takes them longer to get oriented. Probably would not have done it without a partner like Bayern Munich to take on part of the load. But I would say that we like to say the size of the prize in the investment world, the size of the prize is very high. The development costs in Gambia are much, much lower than the development costs in the U.S. so the U.S. has a challenge of cost just because we are a high cost country. And so if you're able to pull it off in South America, if you're able to pull it off in Africa, it is cheaper. It is a hotbed of talent. I can't say if it's more or less than the US yet, I don't really know. But it is a hotbed of talent. And from what I've seen so far with the Gambinos in particular, and they have gone on to not only be loaned and sold throughout Europe, but they've trained at Bayern Munich. And I'm talking the kids, 16 year olds, 17 year olds, 18 year olds. Clearly the upside on that talent is very significant. And there is definitely proof of concept of West African players in particular being successful at the highest levels in Europe and frankly garnering big transfer fees. So we're not necessarily thinking we're going to be in the big transfer fee game. Maybe we'll be in the high volume, low transfer fee game, but there is proof of concept there. So I think it is harder, but I also think the upside's greater.
- [37:38]
Matt Slate
I think you sort of answered it really nicely in your, your previous Answer where I asked you about dividends and you made it pretty clear that LAFC is the one in your heart, that's the one you're going to hold on to. And you're not Swiss, you're not Austrian. Do you ever worry about how you position yourself with the fans of those clubs? Do you ever sort of have to be careful how you speak? I mean, are. You seem very relaxed now, but are you being guarded now about, oh, I can't offend fans of Grasshopper. Grasshopper of a historic club. I think they're the most successful club in Swiss football history, or certainly up there.
- [38:10]
Tim Bezbachenko
Do you.
- [38:11]
Matt Slate
Does that worry you?
- [38:12]
Anne
I don't know if I'd call it being careful. I think you have to appreciate the culture and understand that, you know, LAFC for me locally, where I share with my children and everything else, that's Grasshopper for them or Innsbruck for them. And when we like to think, we'd like to think that we are bringing, which is why I started with trophies, we'd like to think we are going to make them better. So the grasshopper in the 1990s was a truly elite club and we would like to get them back to that level. We are able to do it with money, for sure, but the ability to bring players and punch above your weight, I think is the key to, you know, you need a competitive advantage in this world. Speaking from an. As an investment person. Need a competitive advantage. What's our competitive advantage in Grasshopper? Number one? We think some of the things we've done at LAFC will translate commercially to Grasshopper, but it starts with being good on the field and it starts with, for example, at lafc, one of the keys for us was really activating our supporter groups. You know, we, we were activating our supporter groups before we had a player, before we had a stadium, before we had a sponsor. We would go into the community and we would get that local support. And Grasshopper has fantastic local support. And that was very important to us. I think they knew that was very important to us. Then you have to bring players and when I say punch above your weight, hopefully I can get better players than maybe I can afford on my own, because I'm getting them from other places that we have an ownership stake. Maybe it's from Bayern Munich with somebody who's not quite ready for first team level. Maybe it's from South America, maybe it's from Africa and they haven't seen the Africa quality yet. They're gonna, they're gonna be thrilled once they see It. And then if you can improve them on the field, and it's kind of that flywheel I talk about, then you'll fill the stands. If you fill the stands, you'll get the sponsors. If you get the sponsors, you'll get the money. If you get the money, you get even better players. Then you get into the European tournaments, and then you're back to the 1990s. So I hope they appreciate the fact that. That we're not at cross purposes. For me to be successful, I need them to be successful locally. I need them to win trophies. It doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise. And so making European tournaments is one of the legs of the stool to make the investment pay off, which means you have to be in the top few in that league. Well, to get to the top few in that league, you got to do a number of things, right? And so partly it's money, partly it's focus management, talent, players, youth development, et cetera. And we think that we're aligned. We think we're aligned with these fan groups.
- [40:33]
Matt Slate
As a last question, Larry, this series, this podcast series is about groups of clubs, multi club groups. But it would be remiss of me if I didn't ask you about your ownership group at lafc, because there's some fascinating people in there. Magic Johnson, I'm all right thinking. Mia Hamm, Will Ferrell, what do they bring to this network? What do they make of it?
- [40:53]
Anne
So it's all part of our, what I call our big tent philosophy, which we're trying to bring to the other clubs, which is we want a big tent. Everyone's included, and that includes our ownership group. So we don't have one person like me who controls everything. We have a number of people and we have a big ownership group, and everyone brings something different. In Magic's case, we like to joke that he's like the secret mayor of Los Angeles. Like, Magic is unbelievable in Los Angeles. It cares about Los Angeles. He cares about the people that help build our stadium. It cares about the people that work in our stadium. So he didn't come at this as a soccer or football aficionado. He came at this as someone who was deeply, deeply caring about Los Angeles and frankly, very well known. And it showed a bit of a statement of intent. And so in a world where you're trying to activate the supporters and in the early days before you have a team, you're trying to say that we're an ambitious club. Obviously, doing a network is part of being ambitious. We're an ambitious club. We want to win trophies. Here's what our ownership group looks like. Me and him is the top, top women's footballer in history. Also local and, you know, very, very helpful. Her expertise is pretty incredible. And it was a bit of a statement of tentative about inclusivity. You know, we were a very inclusive club. If you look at our supporters group, which is, we call it the 3252, it's incredibly diverse. And then Will Ferrell, who is really a treasure. And Will was a friend of mine who I knew in LA and over the years, I said, I said, it can be a lonely experience in the old days being a soccer fanatic in America, if you're my demographic. And Will was one of those guys that I would always talk about the U.S. men's National Team and I would talk soccer. And I knew that he had very similar age, very similar passion. And when I called him about this, he was in immediately. And that might have been the best decision I ever made because he is, he's incredible. He. He shows up. He, his family is, you know, his wife's from Sweden. He played soccer in high school, his kids played. And so he goes to away games. He cares about the team, he adds value wherever he can. And we don't have a sponsor or a fan that would not like to spend time with Will Ferrell. And he makes time. So it's all part of everybody doing whatever they can to be helpful. It makes for a. You know, we often get asked, how do you keep an ownership group of that size all aligned and moving in the same direction and all getting along? Maybe we just got lucky, but the alchemy of it all coming together has been incredible. And all three of them have added a ton of value to what we're trying to do. And we're thrilled we did it. And, you know, maybe we'll get more people over time, but as of now, they, they definitely stand out as adding value.
- [43:27]
Matt Slate
Sounds like a really happy bunch. Larry, look, lovely talking to you. Thanks very much for taking the time because I know it's early for you.
- [43:33]
Anne
Of course. Nice meeting you. Take care.
- [43:35]
Ayo Akimwaleere
That was Matt's chat with Larry Berg. Thank you, Matt. Thanks, Larry, and also Tim, for your contributions on today's show. Tomorrow we'll wrap up this series by answering your questions on multi club models. That's all for now. We'll be back. Next time, the Athletic FC Podcast Network.