Is Amorim's brutal honesty helping Man United?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast Summary

Episode: Is Amorim's Brutal Honesty Helping Man United?
Release Date: January 27, 2025
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
Guests: Laurie Whitwell, Mark Critchley, Charlotte Harper

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1. Introduction and Match Analysis

The episode begins with Ayo Akinwolere welcoming listeners to a discussion centered around Manchester United's recent performance under their new manager, Ruben Amorim. Having secured four wins in five matches, including a 1-0 victory over Fulham at Craven Cottage, the team appears to be showing signs of improvement.

Key Points:

• Performance Against Fulham: Despite Fulham's organized defense, United managed to secure three points.
• Goal Scoring Concerns: United has struggled offensively, with only one shot on target in consecutive Premier League games.

Notable Quote:

"It's another week in the life cycle of Manchester United. But having beaten Fulham 1-0, it's now four wins in five."
— Ayo Akinwolere [02:57]

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2. Ruben Amorim's Managerial Style

The core of the discussion revolves around Ruben Amorim's distinct managerial approach, characterized by his brutal honesty and high standards. Charlotte Harper provides insights from her interviews with those close to Amorim, highlighting his no-nonsense attitude and relentless pursuit of team cohesion.

Key Points:

• High Standards: Amorim expects maximum effort daily and doesn't hesitate to address underperformance.
• No Egos Policy: He maintains a team-first mentality, extinguishing individualistic behaviors.
• Balanced with Fun: Despite his stern approach, Amorim fosters a balance between discipline and camaraderie.

Notable Quotes:

"The minimum is the maximum and if you don't reach that maximum level of effort, then you're gonna be spoken to."
— Charlotte Harper [12:37]

"He is very, very close to the players, but you wouldn't cross the line either."
— Charlotte Harper [14:18]

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3. Communication with Players and Fans

Amorim's direct communication style extends beyond the players to the fans, leading to mixed reactions. While some appreciate his honesty as a motivational tool, others are concerned about the potential long-term implications.

Key Points:

• Player Relations: Tensions with key players like Marcus Rashford have surfaced, with Amorim publicly dropping him from the squad.
• Fan Support: Despite criticism, a majority of fans back Amorim's strong stance, reflecting a desire for transparency and improvement.
• Media Handling: Amorim prefers addressing issues calmly and away from emotional display in media interactions.

Notable Quotes:

"He's being quite stark on it."
— Laurie Whitwell [10:16]

"They love it. The large majority are fully behind Amarin being so strong with his players."
— Ayo Akinwolere [21:07]

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4. Financial Situation and Transfer Window

A significant portion of the podcast delves into Manchester United's precarious financial standing. Laurie Whitwell discusses the club's reliance on short-term loans and the challenges faced in the January transfer window.

Key Points:

• Living Beyond Means: United is described as "living on a Champions League lifestyle on Europa League income," indicating unsustainable financial practices.
• Transfer Constraints: With a limited budget and substantial existing debts, United faces tough choices in the transfer market.
• Potential Sales: Players like Kobbie Mainoo and Alejandro Garnacho are on the market to alleviate financial strain, though their departure would be a blow to the team’s future potential.

Notable Quotes:

"Manchester United are living on a Champions League lifestyle on Europa League income."
— Mark Critchley [27:26]

"It's frightening."
— Ayo Akinwolere [30:19]

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5. Academy and Future Prospects

The discussion shifts to the importance of Manchester United's academy in navigating financial and team-building challenges. Laurie highlights the strategic focus on nurturing young talent to both bolster the squad and generate future transfer profits.

Key Points:

• Investment in Youth: United is increasingly relying on academy products like Cheeto Bobby Martin and Sekou Kone to sustain the team.
• Potential Profit: Developing young players provides a dual advantage of strengthening the squad and offering profitable transfer options.
• Preservation of Talent: There's a delicate balance between selling talent to manage finances and retaining promising players to ensure long-term success.

Notable Quotes:

"United has a proud history of bringing Academy players through."
— Laurie Whitwell [39:44]

"It would be a very sad day if that thread ever got cut."
— Laurie Whitwell [40:03]

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with acknowledgments of the complex challenges Ruben Amorim faces as Manchester United's manager. The hosts emphasize the need for strategic financial management and effective team building to steer the club back to its former glory.

Key Takeaways:

• Amorim's honesty and high standards are reshaping the team dynamic but come with challenges, especially in player relations.
• Financial constraints limit transfer market activities, compelling the club to make difficult decisions regarding player sales and investments in youth.
• The support from fans and the backing from club executives will play a crucial role in navigating the current turbulent period.

Final Notable Quote:

"They have to stick with it, ride it out and empower him to do the job as he sees fit."
— Laurie Whitwell [19:09]

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This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of Ruben Amorim's impact on Manchester United, exploring the intricate balance between managerial integrity, financial sustainability, and team performance. For fans and followers seeking an in-depth understanding of the current state of Manchester United, this episode offers valuable insights and expert opinions.

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Laurie Whitwell]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. A smash TV, a lack of cash and more box office quotes from Ruben Amarin. I will put vital before I put.

[Laurie Whitwell]

A player that don't give the maximum every day.

[Ayo Akinwale]

It's just another week in the life cycle of Manchester United. But having beaten Fulham 1 nil, it's now four wins in five. So are United improving here for this one we have the Athletics Manchester United correspondent Laurie Whitwell as well as Mark Critchley as well. And later on, we've got Charlotte Harper who will be joining us as we take a deep look at what makes Ruben Amarim tick. Right, Laurie, let's talk about Manchester United at Craven Cottage. I was there on Friday doing a little piece actually for the Premier League, right Holders and Fulham fans were quietly confident considering that Manchester United's record against Fulham is actually really, really good. And what a lovely birthday present. Happy 40th to Reuben Amarin.

[Host 1]

Happy 50th to Reuben Amarin. Because he decided that he is now aged 10 years in two months at Manchester United.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Happy birthday. They say Life begins at 40. Take it from me, it doesn't.

[Laurie Whitwell]

It doesn't know.

[Ayo Akinwale]

But it's not 40, it's 50.

[Laurie Whitwell]

After two months in that he's 50.

[Host 1]

And then in the press conference to us afterwards he was sort of asked to elaborate a little bit and he said, oh, I regret everything that I say when I say it to you guys because you pick up on things and you know, we have to go through it all over again. So yeah, I don't know. He's obviously got a bit of wit about him and he's not afraid to say things that might come across in a certain way. And he went on to say more stuff in that press conference that obviously certainly came across in a clear way. But yeah, I think that United again somehow at Craven Cottage it always works. I mean, I think that's eight wins on the bounce there and they were pretty anemic for the most part and obviously relied on Lisandro Martinez trying from distance and having a bit of luck with the deflection. And yeah, I mean they come away with three points somehow because it really didn't look like that for long periods of the game. Fulham probably wonder. I mean, I don't think Fulham did loads either to be fair. But they, you know, were certainly not deserving of defeat, I would say. But that being said, you know, at least United showed some togetherness and. And they weren't as easy to cut through as I perhaps feared because Fulham are very organized and I think they certainly had had threats in the game. But yeah, United were able to kind of nullify it quite well. Yeah.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Critch, only one shot on target for Manchester United a Craven Cottage. They did score. Don't mind me, but Carl's just done a piece on that match and you know, talking about Hojlund just not looking like the striker that they bought. Why do you think they're struggling to click an attack at this moment in time?

[Laurie Whitwell]

Well, yeah, so it was like one shot on target last night for United and it was the same last week against Brighton actually there was the Fernandez penalty and they scored from that too. So I guess you could say two shots on target, two games, 100% conversion rate. What's the problem? But it's obviously a bit deeper than that. I actually tried to look for the last time that United only had one shot on target in back to back Premier League games. I thought I might have another worst team ever. It's not happened since 1893 or whatever. Stat on my hands. It was actually only six years ago, it was April 2019.

[Ayo Akinwale]

All right.

[Laurie Whitwell]

I think that kind of shows the sort of malaise that United have been in, you know, for the best part of, well, going on a decade now. Right. But I do think the attack is a, is a particular concern at the minute. It actually there was. They only have one shot on target against Newcastle as well last month, the defeat at Old Trafford at the end of December. And yeah, you are looking at, of course, Rasmus Hoyland. I think he's, he's only got two Premier League goals all season. He's looking pretty bereft of confidence right now. Lost count of the number of times last night where the ball was thrown up to him and he was wrestling with a center back but couldn't hold it up and couldn't bring others into play. That's been a real limitation of his game recently. Joshua Xerxe, he came on again like in recent weeks. He came on and things started to link up a bit better. He's obviously got that relationship where he can, he can bring others into play, but he's not much of a goal threat himself. So there's a lot of focus on those two strikers. But to be honest, you could go through the whole team and you're really struggling to come up with anybody who looks like a consistent person who's going to, who's going to get shots on goal or just carry that goal threat. I think even you look at the way that they're playing out and lumping that ball up to Hoyland, it feels like something's breaking down. They aren't perhaps being able to play out from the back in the way that Amarin would like them to. So I think it's a team wide problem. And of all the things that we've seen over the last few weeks, it's, it's, it's maybe the most concerning that the attack just isn't really clicking at the minute. No matter what combinations, no matter what system, no matter what lineup Amarun tries to throw together.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, Laurie, I mean, look, I couldn't help but think. And he was questioned about it at the end of the match. Marcus Rashford, you know, even on a decent day, could offer you something. You know, he's really sticking to his guns on this one. Marcus Rashford would have been wonderful to play in a game against Fulham. You're looking on the bench. He's not even there to see. I think Marcus Rashford hasn't started in what, 11 games for Manchester United at this moment. In time. AM's very adamant that he's not, he's not straying on this one. He's just not happy with him and he's, he's not going to play him for that reason.

[Host 1]

No. And you know, he was asked about it after the game and he mentioned, as you say there, Ayo, the lack of pace perhaps on the bench that he wanted to bring on ideally, but he feels that the point he's making with Rashford is wider than that and more deeper than that. And if he changes his mind now, he'll be done because he's, you know, he needs to show that sort of strong leadership and he alluded to the way that he trains, the way that he lives his life as well. That's the kind of first time he's gone there a little bit. And we've obviously reported on the Athletic about the reasons why Marcus Rashford has been dropped since that Manchester derby. But he went further, you know, he basically said, yeah, I'd love to have somebody on the bench like that, but I would rather put my 63 year old goalkeeping coach George a vital on the bench then pick somebody that wasn't giving their maximum in training every day. And now, okay, people will say he's talking generally about all players but the question was about Rashford and clearly that's the way that he was thinking and that's the way it should be interpreted. So pretty start really, it's hard to then from that find a way back if he doesn't leave on loan this month because, you know, you've got all this interest that kind of has slips away, it feels like, or that they, these clubs have looked at the financials and not been able to make it work. Barcelona is obviously the one that he would like to go to and obviously that would be fabulous for all concern. He could, you know, see that as a win for him. United could get some value in a player if he plays in La Liga, you know, for a potential summer move, permanent basis and you know, obviously then they'd be able to get a bit more money in and maybe reinvest that in a lone player coming in. So yeah, it's clearly a far from ideal situation. But yeah, Reuben Amarin is not going to change his mind on this and he's being quite stark on it.

[Ayo Akinwale]

It's going to be pretty bold crit for an incoming manager to drop a homegrown player, a player of Marcus Rashford's stature. But some might even say, you know what, he's asserting his authority as how he wants things to move forward.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's been clear from right, from that Manchester derby where Rashford wasn't involved. Obviously, Alejandro Garnacho wasn't involved that day either, but you saw him come back for the very next game. That was a much less serious kind of issue that was between Amrum and Garnacho. Rashford is more serious. I think it dates back longer than Amrum. It's about how they've tried to get the most out of Rashford, tried to get him to his absolute best, to that level of form that we saw two or three years ago before he got that contract extension. I think, tellingly, though, Amrun would only be able to do this if he had wider support within the club to take these measures. And he has taken these measures and he stuck to them, which I think says and speaks to, again, that willingness within the club to try and just try and push Rashford. In fact, Amari spoke about that immediately after the City game. He said that when you've tried so many different things, you've got to try something different. And so this is quite different. Different for Rashford. It's different from the treatment that he's expected before, that he's been subjected to before. But again, I think there's broadly support for Amarin's measures within the club and there's broadly support for them outside of it as well. Among the fan base, I think people can see that Marcus Rashford hasn't been hitting the levels that we've come to expect of him, that a player who's one of United's highest earners would be expected to hit. And so different measures need to be taken and that's what it's done. And I mean, whether there's a way back in, that's the interesting question. I think you'll see now that it's a bit unsure whether he'll leave in this window. That will raise a question if he does stay, as to his integration. But in the hints that Amarin's given so far, it sounds like, well, he's not really committed to an answer just yet. And that kind of suggests that this can run and run and run.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Okay, well, next we'll delve deeper into the new Manchester United manager.

[Host 1]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akinwaleere.

[Laurie Whitwell]

I use the New York Times games.

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See the different categories.

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I haven't missed a day.

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App.

[Ayo Akinwale]

This week I spoke more than.

[Host 1]

Four years in sporting. Sometimes I talk about relegation.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Because of that, I think our club needs a shock. We are being the the worst team.

[Host 1]

Maybe in history of Manchester United.

[Ayo Akinwale]

So since taking charge at Manchester United, Ruben Amarim has spoken about the amount of interviews he's had to do. United being in a relegation battle, this squad being the worst Manchester United side in history. And yesterday, as Laurie said, he'd put his 63 year old goalkeeping coach on the bench ahead of Marcus Rashford. Now joining us now to discuss the character of the new Manchester United boss, we have the Athletic Charlotte Harper, who has been out in Portugal speaking with some who know the boss really well. Now Charlotte, good to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate you joining us. You wrote a piece that went up on the Athletic over the weekend focusing on his honesty. Now we've seen, in short, what he's been able to say about his time at Manchester United. Very honest indeed. What have you learned about Amarim's managerial style? After speaking to people that know him very well for many years, this is.

[Charlotte Harper]

The Ruben that they know. The brutal honesty is not new. He has extremely high standards. One former player that I spoke to said, you know, the minimum is the maximum and if you don't reach that maximum level of effort, then you're gonna be spoken to. And there has to be a change, as we've seen with Marcus Rashford's situation. A former teammate of his, Bruno Sumair, a really close friend, he described him as a brother. Ruben cut him from the squad because he missed training once for third tier side Casa Pia. Now Ruben is now godfather to his Child, so has maintained that relationship. But it's ruthless. Right. The second thing is that there are no egos, no matter the name, he expects the same and those expectations are really, really clear. And that comes from his communication as well. And he's a no nonsense guy. The team comes first before everyone. There was one instance a former player said that two players were trying to dribble the most and, you know, it was an individual battle kind of messing around in training. And Ruben stopped it after 20 minutes and said, right, and you go in the dressing room because those players thought they were going to kind of steam role every game. But alongside this ruthlessness is a sense of fun. We haven't seen that from Ruben Amarim. I think he mentioned it a couple of times at the start when he joined, but given United's pressure, that hasn't been a lot of joking around as such. But of the people that I've spoken to, there is that balance between fun and criticism. He is very, very close to the players, but you wouldn't cross the line either.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, I mean, we've heard about the, the broken TV screen, Laurie in the dress room after the defeat to Brighton, you know, as well as sitting in on a number of his press conferences. What have you noticed about his communication style? Because, look, it's very different to Eric Ten Hag, for instance. But also, do you reckon United caught wind of this before they hired this guy? Because I'm hoping they did their due diligence on him.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I think they were very well aware because they originally looked at him when they were first exploring possibilities to replace Eric Ten Hag around the FA Cup Final. At that point, I think there were, I don't know, let's say, concerns or, or questions, I suppose, about the system that he plays, you know, the back three with the wing backs. And obviously we're still, you know, coming to terms with that and the players are, and that's partly, perhaps this moment of friction where he wants them to do certain things that they aren't familiar with and maybe in some cases aren't able to. But, yeah, I think they're well abreast of the kind of personality that he is, because that is a large part of why they hired him. They wanted someone with charisma, with this kind of energy and ability to communicate publicly. And with that you've got both sides of the coin where he's not just going to be a pliable kind of company employee the whole time. He's going to say things that are quite punchy because he is confident in his own abilities and he believes that you need, it feels to me from what he's saying so far, to jolt players sometimes, which is I guess why, you know, we do have this episode of the, the dressing room after the Brighton game where they, they, they suffered a defeat after a point at which he was asking them to maintain those standards that they'd shown against Liverpool, against Arsenal. Obviously they, they kind of, you know, toiled a little bit to a victory over Southampton and then they go and lose to Brighton and they were doing things in the positional play at the end of the game that he wasn't happy with. And yeah, the tv, the big screen TV that they show the tactics on got caught as collateral in that kind of demonstrative feedback that he was giving them very fierce criticism. And I think that's also that even spoke was interesting because after Games United he hasn't been speaking, he's been leaving it to the next day, you know, when he can go through things in a cold hearted fashion with his coaches and not have the emotion in there. And then in the press conference to us afterwards, he was saying that, that maybe he was too emotional and he should have calmed down before speaking to us in the media and saying that the squad was the worst in, in Premier League history. But I don't know, other people that have known him to me say that he does things calculatedly, he doesn't do things by mistake. And I think he's sending messages all the time through his actions in the dressing room, through his statements in the media. And I think Charlotte's piece is really fascinating to get to grips with what he's done previously because I suppose you can, there are echoes here, right, with Jose Mourinho, you know, another famous Portuguese manager that he certainly looks up to. And I'm not saying that he is absolutely a carbon copy of him, far from it, he's very much his own man. But there's little flickers of having that blend of arm around the shoulder, but also very strong sort of feedback. And he is like that, it seems to me, with everybody across the squad, no matter the status.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, Charlotte, just following up on that, you know, this Mourinho esque kind of way of communicating. I wonder if some of this rhetoric is about getting more from these players. You know, Mourinho's often criticized players. Pep Guardiola has often said when his team weren't playing that well, for instance, I don't recognize my team putting these messages out, hoping they land with these Players so they can have a sense of pride for playing for Manchester United.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Yeah.

[Charlotte Harper]

I think that the players that I spoke to at Sporting were saying that they like to know where they stand. They like that honesty. And it was used as a motivational tool to prove him wrong and say, no, like, we're not the worst team in United's history. We're not in a relegation battle and get them to fight. You know, Diego Dalo came out and said those words regarding a lack of leaders pinched him, as in, it was a kind of a reality check for him. Bruno Fernandes before the Fulham game was saying, yeah, it fired me up. Interestingly, Harry Maguire, in a quite an awkward exchange that Laurie witnessed when he was sitting next to his manager and asked how that lands when your coach says you may be the worst team in United history. He was quite wary to speak publicly on it. But what I get from the sense of the sporting play is, is that you either buck up your ideas and you work hard and you prove the manager wrong, or you get upset and you don't really play and there's no kind of other way. It's Ruben's way or you're out.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah.

[Laurie Whitwell]

All right.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Charlotte, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time.

[Charlotte Harper]

Thanks so much, guys.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, Chris, I mean, look, Laurie spoke about speaking to people, and Reuben Amarim is clearly quite calculated. He's probably thought about what he entailed to be a Manchester United manager before. Before coming to the Premier League, and I'm sure it's for his aspirations. Being in the Premier League is something that's been quite hot in his mind. But he also needs to learn how to sort of manage this sort of new profile. Because when you're a Manchester United manager, people are going to come for you.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think it's been sort of evident in his first few interactions. Certainly you remember the Ipswich game, the interviews that he did after that. He was saying he was almost taken aback by just how much media he had to do, how much scrutiny had been on him, just how much it was being talked about and that. I think. I don't know if you necessarily take him by surprise, because everybody knows the scale of the job that it is being the manager of Manchester United, and literally the scale of the job that it is to be the manager of Manchester United right now. Right. So I don't think he went in blind to that, but I think maybe the actual experience he has seemed a little bit, I don't know, just taken aback by the scale of what he's. What he's tasked with. It's a massive job. He's obviously come over with a brilliant reputation and achieved great things at Sporting. But it's a very different dynamic being the manager of Sporting Club de Portugal in Portugal, one of the big three in Portugal, playing against teams that really aren't up to much standard, winning most weeks, then coming into the Premier League where things are so competitive, where there's a level of expectation at United that perhaps isn't matched out by the results in recent years. But you've still got to win games, you've still got to deliver. He's been conscious of that all the time. He's obviously been setting expectations. He's done that from the very first moment he came in. He said, we're going to suffer, there's going to be pain, there's going to be a storm. He's told us that all the way through. Even when it's come, he's still had to deal with the ramifications of that. So I think it's been a real challenge. He is quite inexperienced. He's only just turned 40 today. Even though he feels 50. He's only just turned 40. Right. So he's still a young guy himself. He's still going to make mistakes. He came out afterwards and said that he felt he'd been naive in what he'd said. I agree with Laurie. I think maybe it was a little bit more calculated than that, but he's still almost learning on the job a little bit. And that's sort of what Ineos bought into when they appointed him. But they did appoint him, they did buy into this. They've kind of got to stick with it, ride it out and empower him to do the job as he sees fit. And I think that is the key to him ultimately being a success going forward.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Laurie, how is this working with the fans? I just think about, you know, know 10 Hag's post match interviews and conferences and it was all about, well, you know, we just need to keep trusting the process. We just need to keep going, you know. But the team played really badly. 10 Hag, yes. We need to keep trusting the process, you know, that, that level of honesty that he has them and he's been very open from the, from the get off from joining Manchester United. How is that rubbing off with the fans? Because watching that Fulham game yesterday, I mean, they were singing Room and Amarim right at the end, weren't they?

[Host 1]

They're singing it from a large part throughout, really. I mean, Certainly from the start. And I think that's part in, you know, responding to any kind of focus that they might see as the external media playing on Manchester United and Ruben Amarin in particular, given the form. But, yeah, they love it. You know, it feels to me, you know, the large, vast majority are fully behind Amarin being so strong with his players because they've seen this before with different managers being the ones that ultimately lose their jobs and, you know, same players sticking around and being able to still wear the Manchester United shirt. And, you know, they obviously were fully on board. It felt like to me at the time with Ralph Ranier, when he was interim manager and he was saying things like, you know, the club needs open heart surgery and, and they were lapping it up. And, you know, he was right to a large degree. It was easier perhaps for him to say it in his situation because he knew he was, you know, leaving the club really at the end of the season. And Amarin, I guess from his point of view wants this to be a long term thing. And obviously there might be some people that look at it and go, is he already at that stage where he's detonating a few bombs and, you know, to hell with the consequences? I don't, I don't think we're there. But I do think that am appreciates the scale of the task and feels that he needs to kind of, you know, pull this lever of pretty provocative words and actions to get a response. But from what I can tell from, you know, social media and then, yeah, the fans in the actual stadium, they're behind him and certainly then they voice their displeasure when there are people in the, in the ground, you know, so Jim Ratcliffe came under heat for ticket price rises. They were singing against him, him in that moment. And it is intriguing. I mean, you touched on the support there from the executives, Critch, in terms of, you know, how much backing does he have to say this kind of stuff? And maybe they don't know exactly what he's going to say, but I feel like they, you know, you've got Ratcliffe there as a guy who himself has said some pretty strong things behind the scenes to staff members about the running of United and saying it isn't very good. So they've kind of got a kindred spirit in both calling out what they see as bits about the club and approaching things head on. I think they both think is the best way to go about it. But yeah, it's a, it's a fascinating dynamic at United because there's Just so many stories that come out because you've got this conflict between different ways of doing things and I think that's going to be continuing to be the case for a good while. Yeah, yeah.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Crich, just thinking, you know, for him in particular, coming into Manchester United, the Rashford issue, you know that there's a lot of work still to do here and he's barely even trained with this team. You look at 10 Hag still having to deal with the Sancho issue, compare it to maybe Arteta and Ursula or Aubameyang taking over a big club like this, there's a lot of work to do first with even getting the right personnel before you even start focusing on the type of football you want to play.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Well, there is when you walk into clubs where you have those major problems and major situations and to be fair, you ventured 10 hag and Sancho. It feels like every year we have one United player that's packed off to Siberia and we have to bring back in from exile. At the moment it's quite a record that, that they're managing to keep consistent. But it just speaks to. You're right. Ideally, Amarin would have walked in, would have had midweeks where he'd be able to take training sessions to implement his system and there'd be money to spend in the transfer market in January and you'd be able to bring in players who suit that system and there wouldn't be underlying issues like off field issues with major players in the squad. But if that was all the case, United probably wouldn't have needed to change manager in the middle of the season. Right. So. So the situation was always going to be difficult that he was walking into and I think from that perspective people always needed to remember that. I don't want to say this season is a write off. It sort of feels like it now that they're 12th in the league and they're not going to get relegated, they're probably not going to get Champions League, so what is there to play for? But it does feel like given the decisions that were made in the summer, overextending ten Hag's contract, the money that was spent backing him, then sacking him, etc, etc, it feels like Amarin was walking into a situation where it was clearly going to take time, he wasn't going to get the time to right the ship immediately. He was going to have to deal with these off field problems like Rashford, like you mentioned, like other managers have at other clubs before and it was always going to take that Time to get it right. And I think that has been the slow realization over these first two months as results haven't immediately improved. There hasn't really been the honeymoon period that a lot of people were hoping for and expecting. I think the realization is that, yes, it is going to take quite a lot of time to write things.

[Host 1]

Just very quickly. On your point there, Crit, in terms of what's left in the season, does he go Jose Mourinho again? Does he. Does he sack off the league and go for the Europa League? Because that is their best route, it seems to me, of Champions League qualification.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Absolutely. And you probably back them to win the Europa League. I don't know.

[Host 1]

The teams they should be, really.

[Laurie Whitwell]

And the Europa League campaign's been all right so far. Okay. It didn't start brilliantly with three, but unbeaten and looking like they're going to go through into the. Well, maybe avoid the playoff round if they can get a good result in Bucharest this week. So there is, I think from the league perspective, look, I don't know what there is to really salvage, but that's the point. The point is now that that actually gives you the platform, the foundation in which to get used to this system, in which to see which players fit it, which players don't. I think it has to be kind of taken as that tabula rasa, as that blank slate now and to move forward and to build into what will hopefully then be the Reuben Amarin era, starting officially July 1, 2025, maybe.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Wait for that moment, fans. Right, let's move on because with the transfer window closing in a week's time, next we look at what room, if any, United have to be active in the market.

[Laurie Whitwell]

This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akumalara.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Okay, with a week left of the January transfer window, let's look ahead to what Manchester United can actually do. Sitting 12th. Critch. We might have expected Manchester United of the past to. To spend quite a bit of money and now you've written a. A piece around Manchester United's finances and there was a line actually I thought was really interesting that came from that piece. He says Manchester United are living on a Champions League lifestyle on Europa League income. Talk to me about that. What did that. What did that all mean?

[Laurie Whitwell]

Yeah, that was actually Kieran Maguire, the noted football finance experts line, rather than mine. He says he puts it much more articulately than I ever could. This complex st. Unfortunately. But yeah, I mean that, that is really the crux of the issue. Right, so look, United need to Spend money. They need to invest in the squad. They need to, they need to fit it to Amarin system, right? They need to, they need to buy players in order to, to give him the start that he needs. But you need two things to spend in the transfer window. Yes, you need financial fair playroom, you need the room on psi, you need that, that leverage, that ability to be able to spend. But you also actually need, and this was the point that the piece was trying to get across. You need the cold hard cash in the first place. You need the docs, you need the readies, you need the Wonga in order to spend.

[Host 1]

You know all about that, don't you?

[Laurie Whitwell]

I know, I wish I did. I wish I did. I wouldn't become a journalist if I knew about that. But, yeah, no, but. So on the face of it, right, I think, and the piece goes into this, on the face of it, United do have money in their bank. They have 150 million in the bank at the last count, and since then Raklis put in another 80 million. So the money is there. And we're absolutely not ruling out that tomorrow they could go agree a deal for Dogu or whoever and make a sign in in January. But the only reason that that bank balance is healthy is because, well, a, because of Ratcliffe's money and B, because United have been taking out these short term loans. They have something called a revolving credit facility. It's essentially like a company credit card and it allows them to borrow 300 million anytime that they're short of cash. And so last summer they didn't have a lot of money, but they had, they'd just given 10HAG a new contract. They wanted to back them in the market. So they took out, they borrowed 200 million on that credit card and now they owe about 230 million dol. 30 million total on it. So why did they need to do that? Well, the club isn't actually generating cash itself. If you like, ignore the loans that they've been taking. If you ignore the money that Ratcliffe's been putting in, there's actually more cash going out of the club than there is coming into it. And that's been the case for really the last, the last two seasons. And so that is what Kieran Maguire is talking about there when he's talking about living a Champions League lifestyle. On Europa League income, United have constantly being spending money like buying players essentially on the tick. They've been spending money that is not essentially theirs. They actually owe 319 million in cash for Players that they've already signed that have already come through the door, they still need to make those payments on that.

[Host 1]

And that is frightening.

[Laurie Whitwell]

It's frightening.

[Ayo Akinwale]

It's a lot of money.

[Laurie Whitwell]

154 million of that is actually due within this year. Right. So they have obligations that they need to meet right now. So how do you actually square that? How do you meet all the those obligations while still spending money to reinvest the squad, to rebuild the squad? Well, I think there's two ways that they can do that and it'll be pretty drastic. One is cost cutting. And you've seen that happen over the last year with ratcliffe pushing through 250 job cuts, but also all the other miserly kind of penny pinching stuff that he's done, that seems to be a new one every single week. Right. But there's also selling players and this has become a relevant thing in the last few weeks. I think a lot of fans were really shocked when they heard that the club would be looking and would at least countenance offers for Kobbie Mainoo and Alejandro Garnacho. And, you know, a lot of the reasoning about that was because, yes, academy players, there's benefits with psr, and that's all true. But at the same time, I think a fundamental, the key part of that story really is that actually you look around United's squad and how many players would they actually be able to get a lot of money for? Well, probably Kobbie Mainoo, probably Alejandro Garnacho and not many others. Right. And they need cash, they need money in order to spend on the squad. So is the predicament that they're in, and there's really no easy way out of it without making some really drastic and like I say, some really tough choices.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, Laurie, you know, I'm looking at Marcus Rashford over 300 grand a week. I mean, obviously you can see perhaps that being a really good way to, you know, soften the wage bill. But I also look at certain financial decisions here, and I'm sure you're well aware you extended Eric Tenag's contract. You bought a bunch of players just don't look like they're working for this team. And then you, you get rid of Eric Ten Haag halfway through the season, which means you've then got to pay that, that contract out. And then you've brought a new guy in who you've had to pay his contract out at Sporting, and then he's now going to come in and you also, he also will like his new players to come into this squad, which means more money that needs to be spent to the squad. Meanwhile, you've got all this debt in the background. I mean, I'm no businessman, but I. I'm not sure. These are the greatest business decisions from Manchester United, who are looking to be one of the premier clubs in Europe.

[Host 1]

And you've even let them off hiring Dan Ashworth from Newcastle, the compensation that included, and then paying him, you know, that's a few million. So. Yeah, I mean, for all the ways that they have been tightening the belts around the club, which I do, you can make an argument for. Absolutely. You definitely, you know, can understand why they want to make it streamlined, but then they've obviously made decisions in their own regime that have then cost the club millions. So, you know, you've got to balance all that. And. Okay, fine. They've only sort of had the keys to the place since, you know, let's say, well, it was. It was Christmas, Christmas Eve, wasn't it last. Last year, but 20, 23. But then, you know, perhaps properly getting in there in February when it was all rat. So. So they're going to make some errors along the way. I. I suspect, particularly when they are, you've got a guy in Ratcliffe who is a man in a hurry who absolutely governs what happens at this football club, even though the Glazers remain majority shareholders. You know, he's been given this sort of right and some people will say he's the human shield for the Glazers because he's now getting the. The fan, Aya from the stands. Okay. The Glazers were getting some as well last night, but, you know, he. He's now the focal point for it. But yeah, they. They obviously know that they need to be sort of sharper with their finances. Why? You know, I think they are haggling over money for Patrick Dugu. You know, Lecce, obviously ask him for 40 million euros and they know. I think they've made a bid, you know, that reaches a maximum of 30 million euros. So there's some sort of gap there and let's see if they're able to actually follow through on that. Because recruitment's been the massive issue at United, you know, the spending on players that haven't worked out then. Yeah, to your point, Ayo, giving these players big contracts than having to continue paying even after they've, you know, become. Become out the squad and bad players and then trying to find a club for these guys. You know, there's nobody that's Going to pay, you know, I don't know how much a percentage for Marcus Rashford salary, but definitely not 100. You know, you're sort of looking at 50, 60. Anthony is a player that they signed, you know, for a deal worth £86 million, which is absolutely staggering. And there'll be a. A piece on that on the Athletic by the time I think you're listening to this podcast or watching this podcast just to go into why that happened. But his wage at least was more reasonable in the sphere of Manchester United and so they have able to get sort of 84% payback from Betis for that loan. So, you know, these are kind of decisions that they have to get consistently right over a period of time for the club finances to start looking a lot healthier because Ratcliffe has put his own money into the club. That's something the Glazers never did. They took money out of the club to an enormous degree, which is why United are in this situation, because they've been playing paying interest on debt and they've been paying dividends for. For years. I know they're not now currently, Ratcliffe at least has put £300 million. I don't know if there's going to be future money put in because clearly there's a big stadium that needs financing. How is that going to be paid for? That's the huge issue. So it's a real complex mess and I don't really know how they pick a way through it.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah. What's the word on Casemiro as well? Because, I mean, it's not looking at this moment, Laurie, like he's in Amarum's plans, but another high earner as well, let's not forget.

[Host 1]

Well, him and Marcus Rashford are the two highest earnest in Manchester United to my knowledge. I mean, Bruno Fernandes might be. Might be getting close, but you know, Casabira on big money, he's got a Champions League reduction in his salary, so, you know, is reduced by 25%. But it's still, you're talking around 300 grand a week and that kind of money for a player that's just not in the picture at all. You know, Toby Collier is definitely ahead of him now in the lineup. You know, he comes on at Fulham, makes a brilliant clearance off the line. Absolutely astonishing way that he got that and secured the win for United. That was as good as, you know, Martinez's goal. So he's obviously ahead, you know, of Casimiro because of what he does on the pitch. You know, you've got this guy in Amarin that wants certain things from his players and. And Collier fits it better than Casemiro does. And Casemiro, let's not forget, was, you know, he did a really good first season at United, but he was the kind of backup option to Frenkie De Jong. That's who erik10hag always wanted. So it was never really a total fit for him at United, as consummate as a professional as he is. But clearly there's been issues to his game. And yeah, I mean, Al Nassr were talked about as being interested this January. It felt like Saudi Arabia were going to be the only place that could afford someone like Casemiro. But the SPL are taking a different approach in terms of the kind of recruitment they make, and Al Nassr, I'm told, is not on the agenda and that's all just gone quiet. So you think, is he just going to be another one that's here at Manchester United beyond the end of the transfer window that United are going to have to pay for to be out of the team?

[Ayo Akinwale]

Quick ones around this, we're thinking, obviously, Garnacho and why that would be an interesting deal for Manchester United, even Mainoo, in terms of, you know, pure profit as an academy player. But if you look at this squad right now, are there any unsellable assets, you know, plays that Manchester United are just like, you know what? Don't touch him.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Well, look, I think the interesting thing is that there was a lot of talk about exactly that during the summer, actually, and about Kobbie Mainoo and Alejandro Garnacho, specifically, that these were players that aside from those two, maybe Rasmus Hojlund, potentially Andre Onana, everybody else was. They were willing to listen to offers for. That was. That was the line that was being repeated quite a lot during the summer. Clearly, since then, things have changed and now they're willing to listen to offers for Mainoo and Garnacho. I think if you would. Look, if you went through the squad with a magnifying glass and you're like, well, someone like, I don't know, Lenny Yoro, right? I mean, they've only just signed him, but. So I think. I think if they were suddenly to. If he was suddenly to go to Real Madrid tomorrow, then that would be quite a surprise, right? So I don't seriously think that he's up for sale, right? But I think the point is that, say, somebody did come in with a 150 million pounds bid for Leddy Yarrow. They'd have to consider that Essentially, situation is in the situation that it is because, well, the only way of getting out of it is selling players really to, to really make those big gains. In one, you can do this cost cutting, you can raise ticket prices, but if you want money to spend in the squad, you're going to have to have some turnover of players. And I think given the realities, given the situation, given how the club hasn't been generating its own cash, I think any serious offer for any player would, you know, it would be passed over someone's desk and they'd have to think about it. And that really is, you know, you used to thinking about Manchester United in terms of the stature of the club, in terms of the spending power of the club, as well as being a club that could go out, could dictate terms, could, you know, poach players. You're not really sure whether that's the case anymore. Mainuan Garnacho, specifically, the line has been that the club would reluctantly listen to those offers. I was trying to think the other day, the last time that United reluctantly sold a player and the only player I could think of was Cristiano Ronaldo 2009. And that power dynamic is completely different. You know, obviously it's real Madrid, it's the biggest club in the world, you know, and that had been a long running saga for about two years. Are United through their own mistakes, through their own overspending, through their own sort of mismanagement of the club at ownership and executive level of the years? Are they now in a position where they do. They are sort of playing second field to some elite clubs who could come and take their talent? I don't think that is a totally wild, you know, scenario of events over the next couple of years as they look to try and reinvest in the squad as they look to rebuilt.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Laurie, what does this say about the academy? Is there somewhere man United can still hold on to in. In many respects, you know, you're looking at certain youth players that are coming in, you know, Obi Martin who came from Arsenal, for instance. Is that some. Something they're looking at? I know it's a future prospect, but at least something that can start generating something as well.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I think they are looking at the academy in that kind of way now, actually being a bit more aggressive with how they go about signing these targets. Because in the past I think United were wary of getting into situations that were tricky legally. You. There's this all kinds of stuff that goes on in the youth recruitment world that I think they just didn't want any part of. But there was a way to pick through it. I think that would have been perfectly fine and above board. And yeah, they've signed Cheeto. Bobby Martin from Arsenal, he's scored a lot of goals in the youth ranks. Sekou Kone, who's come from Mali, I think he. Travis Binion was speaking the other day about him needing to adjust to the physicality of the English game. You've got Diego Leon who's going to come as a left back from Paraguay, 17. So once he turns 18. So they are making these kind of moves and I think they're making the moves, they're spending money on them. You know, they're not without cost, but equally I think they're at a price where they're thinking, well, if they do okay for us then we can actually sell them for a profit and do okay there. Or a best case scenario, they actually play for us long term and it's, you know, works out as an absolute steal of a deal. So, yeah, they are looking at it in a different way than they have done in the past. But I echo Critch's point that the point that Mainoo and Garnacho are available potentially for sale is because they're the most valuable assets, you know, and this is from the Academy. It's not just the PSI are calculations that are a factor. They are the best bets to try and correct United's financial picture. And so I don't think we can look beyond that, but it would be very, very sad. You know, a lot of fans are despondent at the idea, particularly Mainou. Garnacho is a little bit different because he obviously came from abroad originally. But I think they'd be sad if he left as well because they want to see if these guys can flourish at United and they're still young, 20 and 19. United has a proud history of bringing Academy plays through and it was actually quite close to being extinguished. The link that they had. It's more than 4,000 games. I'm not sure the exact number now, but it dates back to the 1930s where they've had an Academy graduate in the squad it claimed close to being ended at the Derby because you had Garnacho out, you had Rashford out and it was Cobby Main who just sort of keeping that flame alight. So I think it'd be a very sad day if that thread ever got cut.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Yeah, right. Really great insight, gents. Really appreciate your time. Laurie Critch as well as Charlotte, who joined us earlier as well. Thanks. So much for listening. We're back tomorrow.

[Host 1]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.

[Laurie Whitwell]

The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo, and Jay Beale.

[Host 1]

The executive producer was Ayley Moorhead.

[Laurie Whitwell]

To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

[Host 1]

The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Media Company production.

[Laurie Whitwell]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network hello, I'm.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Ian McIntosh and I'm the host of the Daily Football Briefing. What is the Daily Football Briefing? It's a special 10 minute daily show designed to bring you up to speed with the most important stories from across the football world. Except on Monday mornings when it's 15 minutes and we try to cram in the results, standings and stories from the top 10 leagues on the planet. Or at least the top 10 leagues that I run on a football man manager save. Follow this show today and you'll never miss another big story again. Whether it's news that the Athletic has just broken David Ornstein. What happened? News from outside the Premier League that other podcasts might ignore, that is a.

[Laurie Whitwell]

Difficult one to explain. So let's go bit by bit.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Or it's Champions League week and you just need someone to put it all into context.

[Host 1]

It's made for a very useful away.

[Ayo Akinwale]

Point in a difficult game in a difficult week. Listen to the Daily football briefing in 2025. It's out every weekday wherever you get your podcasts.