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- [00:01]
Dave Defore
The NBA playoffs are here and so is the athletic NBA Daily. Need a fresh, fun take on last night's action. We've got every dunk, buzzer beater and game changing play covered. Join Dave Defore, Zena Keda and Esperahini Monday through Friday for fast recaps. And join me and Alex Spears Saturdays for Saturday Slammin Jam with playoff trivia and some big time vibes. All the playoff intel you need faster than your morning coffee. Listen on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you pod, we're there. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [00:43]
Adam Levanthal
Hi there, I'm Adam Levanthal. Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. Coming up, West Ham sit 17th in the Premier League as they prepare to face Brighton this weekend. So how have they ended up in this position and how much of it is down to the approach of manager Graham Potter? Well, the Athletics, West Ham writer Roshane Thomas and data writer Liam Tharm are with me today. So West Ham in 17th and Roshane. They're very fortunate that Ipswich, Leicester and Southampton have been so poor this season, aren't they?
- [01:19]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, rightly so. Very, very fortunate in terms of the season overall. I often tell people it feels like one prolonged annual leave. That's how it feels for West Ham this season. Just struggling to return to the heights on the David Moyes Jul Tegui it didn't work, unfortunately. And when he, when he left his role, West Ham fans are like anyone, anyone's better. At this point, anyone is better. So when Graham Porter was appointed, it was a case of, okay, we've got another British manager, hopefully we do well. But across the past three months it's been a slow progress, unfortunately.
- [01:51]
Adam Levanthal
Liam, could you see why they, they made that change at that time? And, and did you think that Graham Potter was the right person to, to do the job for the remainder of this season?
- [02:01]
Liam Tharm
Yeah, I think I understood the approach they were looking to take with it. It's always tricky when I think there's perhaps an argument that David Moyes stayed on a little bit longer than perhaps where he peaked at West Ham and he was very probably entitled to do so with the success he brought to the club. So there's maybe an argument in an alternative university to step down after that Conference League win, then maybe they could have rebuilt a different way. Maybe the appointment wasn't fantastic. There's probably some broader questions more structurally at the club as well in terms of the academy, the recruitment, the age of the squad. I know we'll come on to all of this elements which I think you sort of you can put any manager in and there's parts that, you know, not even the very best manager in the world might sort of immediately fix. But I think they saw his record at Brighton in a. In a similar job, in a sense, at least in terms of where, where the club is in the league and trying to overhaul a team with a bit more of a. A defensive style and an aging squad. I, I'll caveat that with the fact that, you know, Potter was part of a. A broader change at the club at the time. Dan Ashworth came in sort of Brighton at a similar, similar period and worked on sort of changing the philosophy and incorporating the academy. So he, he was. I think Graham Potter's become synonymous with that. BR wasn't the only one there that was part of it. But I think, yeah, the approach makes a lot of sense and I thought it was kind of the right move for him as well as a coach to try and I think get some of his own sort of reputation back a little bit after how things panned out for him at Chelsea.
- [03:17]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah. And it hasn't quite gone to plan, as we can suspect by the fact that they are 17th. He's been in charge of 13 Premier League games, Roshane, since taking over from Le Pategui. And it's an underwhelming record, isn't it? Three victories, four draws and six losses. Two part question, really, what is your feeling on how he has done in the circumstances and how are the fans feeling about it?
- [03:41]
Roshane Thomas
In terms of the first part of the question, I do feel for, put in a sense where in his first game in charge was the FA cup loss against Aston Villa. Straight away you could see the impact because Lucas Paquetta were playing amazing that match. He'd been struggling weeks prior. Somerville looked good, everything looked good in that game. And in the second half, Fulca suffered an injury, Somerville suffered an injury. So that's two key attacking players who suffer big injuries. And then obviously as a result of that, Potter, well, his attacking options is a lot limited now. So for that match against Aston Villa where you could see the progress, but you felt for him in a sense where the two players suffered injuries and then after that it was a home win against Fulham. And you know what I compare it to? I compared it to like a seed. When you plant a seed and you water it, you hope it blossoms into something special. And I said the game where everything blossomed to something special was to win against Arsenal, because weeks prior you could see what pot were trying to achieve. You could See small progress, you know, a lot against Chelsea, for example. But in that match, West Ham were brilliant and deserved a point. But the game against Arsenal, everything worked. The tactics were spot on. You had the young left back, all these girls. He was incredible. Man of the match. Like, everything in that match worked to a T. And you're hoping, okay, we've seen what West Ham can do here. Now, West Ham should push on, and they haven't been able to push on from that win. It's been inconsistency, it's been frustrations in terms of playing style. And that leads me on to the second part of your question about the fans. I feel like everything came to a head against Southampton because in that match, you just knew Southampton were going to score. In actual fact, Southampton deserve to win. They deserve to win. They were the better team. They were the more confident of the two, the brighter of the two. And rightly so. Fans brewed at halftime now, because the London Stadium is so far to the press lounge, right, you have two options. You stay in the press box or you go to the press lounge with the file missing to start the second half. So I opted for the second option. I went down to the. Before I went down to the press lounge. In fact, we have this new halftime feature at West Ham and it's way. I think it's Ray Weinstein, the Reactor, a West Ham fan. He came over the title. You're like, west Ham fans, there's five minutes to go for the second half.
- [05:48]
Liam Tharm
It's a great impression.
- [05:49]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, Get. Get back to your seats. And I started laughing because I was thinking, I've never heard this feature before, so this must be new. So then that happens, right? But the compost is packed. It's still packed. Fans having their beverages, having to catch up. So J Bon scores and I missed this goal, right? But I don't see anyone rushing to get back to the seats. Everyone's like, oh, Bon scored. Yeah, but I'm still going to stay here. You know, that's. That's because of L. Fans don't want to see the football they're seeing right now. So after the match, of course, there's loud booze at full time. Loud booze. Probably the worst I've heard on. On the Grand Potter, in fact. And after the Merchant, my question to the manager was, how do you feel about this? And he said, and rightly so. They have the right to be us. But we didn't play you out in a minute. And my fear for Graham Potter right now is that we'll keep hearing more boos in the coming weeks because startup play is the main issue right now, which I'm sure Liam will get into. Fans, they're not entirely sold on what they're seeing right now, to the point where this is what I'm seeing on social media. West Ham podcast, I listen to even fans like how Tom away to games fans are like, what was the point in getting rid of Loptegi? Because one of their main frustrations under the Uptagui was starting to play. And to a degree we are seeing that still under Graham Potter.
- [07:02]
Adam Levanthal
Seeing as you brought it up, let's deal with the aftermath of the Southampton game because a lot of people outside of the West Ham bubble will have become obviously aware of the fact that Southampton had, you know, got a point and gone level with Derby's poorest record in the Premier League. But at the same time they would have been aware of the game because of what Nicholas Falkrug said after the game. Let's have a listen.
- [07:25]
Nicholas Falkrug
It's a mindset problem. Very angry today. Not disappointed, just angry on what we did after the goal, we didn't have the ability or the motivation to push up again. And the next goal kick, we just shoot the ball long. We don't try to play football anymore, we don't push up anymore, we just sink.
- [07:43]
Adam Levanthal
So that's what he said after the 11 draw. And you know, at this stage of the season, you don't want your players to be going through the motions. But that was a very stinging criticism of his teammates. And you could argue, Roshane, that that was a, that was a criticism of, of Potter directly as well for not being able to get a tune out of his team.
- [08:05]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, for sure. Look, I heard the sound bite and honestly I said hallelujah. I said hallelujah. About time someone said someone said it how it is. Someone rightly so called out the team because quite often, and I'm sure we'll see this players would do post match interviews and they'll say the same thing they said the week prior. We go again, we need to work hard as a team. And it reaches the point where fans, they get frustrated here and that a little bit. And when someone like Fuka comes out and he's just so candid, it's like, oh, this is a throwback to how it used to be back in the day. Ah, about time someone said it how it is. And in terms of what I've seen in from the reaction, fans who perhaps don't. Not fans rather People who don't follow West Ham are like full Craig, how dare you coming out saying that? Because you haven't, you haven't been involved in West Ham due to injury. But I'll tell you what, since he come back, he's actually been one of West Ham's better players. He's been one of, one of West Ham's better players. He sort of been a striker that West Ham have long been looking out for and hopefully if he does stay beyond the summer, he can prove next season that, you know, he can be the main man. Obviously I know he's 32, getting on Asia now, but hopefully he can prove in time. But in terms of what I've seen from him, I've definitely like his hold up play, his presence, just him being a bully to defenders. So I thought yeah, if anyone's going to do it, that's actually you. It's actually you because you're a new signing, you played on the team managers and you're not seeing progress. And this is a player who's played for Germany, Germany International for sure, competed for titles, played in Europe, in the Champions League. So he knows what it takes to reach that elite level.
- [09:30]
Adam Levanthal
And Liam, what Falkrug was saying, I suppose links to maybe a positive step that West Ham have made because he was basically saying that they wanted to protect the lead and that seems to be their mindset because if you look at their defensive record before Potter took over they conceded 24 in 12 league and he's managed to reduce the amount of goals that are conceded, 15 in the last 13. And that's included games against Fulham Villa, Chelsea, Brentford, Arsenal, Newcastle, Bournemouth and Liverpool who have been free scoring this season. And Jared Bowen has commented on it as well that they've taken a pride in the defending and I know that that won't have pleased full Krug, especially against the whipping boys of the Premier League. But you watch Potter a lot during his time at Brighton how has moved the defensive side of things.
- [10:28]
Liam Tharm
I think one part of his sort of style that people don't give Potter sort of maybe enough credit for just just sort of focus on him enough is and I say as someone who is often a big fan of his teams and the way they play is how sort of defensive or slightly risk averse he can be sometimes. A lot of that at times is actually with possession, is sort of keeping the ball, isn't always sort of defending deep and being counter attacking. Perhaps old West Ham were a bit more under David Moyes, but he's not sort of particularly a high risk manager. He keeps games nice and tight for the most part. I was looking at West Ham's results And in the 13 games under Potter, 12 of them have been decided by a goal at most. The only game that hasn't been was a 2 nil home run over Leicester. So, you know, these aren't games where they're going to win big, they're not going to lose big. Which of course is one of the reasons I think Anlopetaegi why things look so bad was remember the Arsenal game especially, where they got completely blown up the water sometimes and especially against top teams. And the goal scored has often been a problem under Potter's teams where they can keep the ball really well, sometimes lack a bit of a cutting edge. I think there's compounding factors here this season with West Ham that the injuries that Roshane spoken about. I think there's a tricky balance to strike where you've got a real mix of sort of some top individualistic sort of kind of attackers. You've got Pakatar Kudos, who are really sort of good in open spaces in transition. I think they showed that in the Southampton game, really. I was, I was watching that back and sort of any sort of regain West Ham had, they looked really threatening in open play. It wasn't quite clicking so much. They got Suchek, who had that big threat sort pressure in the box as well from midfield. Not really a place for him in the team at the moment. I mean, it's kind of then the case of where he can fit Jared Bowen into that attack. So I think he's, he's had it difficult in how you sort of fit all those attackers in. Only Leicester have scored fewer goals than West Ham since Potter's come in, but at the same time I think they're fourth in terms of the fewest goals conceded. So again, he's, he's very much a manager that raises the floor of a team, I think, before he pushes the ceiling on. And a big part of his success at Brighton was how he then sort of built that foundation. And then when the talent came in and they recruited smartly, he found spaces for an Alexis McAllister, Moises Caicedo, Leandro Trossard and sort of made those slight tweaks in the system, which of course he can't really yet do at West Ham until he gets a chance to win the world 2 if he's given that time.
- [12:31]
Roshane Thomas
And to be fair to Graham Pott, yesterday in the press conference he said, well, he Iterated why he's looking forward to the summer in terms of bringing his players and why it'll be exciting window. And then he referenced some of those players that Liam just touched on and almost suggesting that, you know, we could do the same thing here at West Ham because he keeps denying it. But this will be a massive overhaul for West Ham this summer. You have Vladimir without a contract because Antonio Lucas Abianski, Danny Ings, Aaron Cresswell, that's five players. Then you have the likes of Thomas Solchek, who has an uncertain future. You have Carlos Solaire, who will go back to psg. You have Evan Ferguson, who'll go back to Brian. And then you have Goodil Rodriguez, a midfielder again, who's uncertain future. Baron Panos defender. It's just full of uncertainties for squad right now. So I do feel for Graham Potter in that sense. But when you look back at the last 10 minutes against Southampton, you see why this squad needs improvement. So there's one passage of play late on where Safada right back, he tried to protect the lead in the corner flag. And I looked at that and I thought, wow, this is against the wot. At the time it wasn't but one of the worst teams, well, the worst team at that point in the Premier League history. You're trying to protect a 10 lead on the corner flag. And I thought that sums up West Ham season. And after that passes in place, I've helped him goes on to score. But after there's one point Falko made, which I thought that's interesting. And he said whenever we score, we knock it long. We don't try and play football. So I look back at WSKout and you know, he's actually true because whenever West Ham score Alphonsariola, he always goes long, always goes long. Prior he's playing it to the Baron Palos or Kilman or Wabasaka, but whenever West Ham score, he goes long. So I thought that was interesting. So my view of that is that must be clear instruction for the manager.
- [14:15]
Adam Levanthal
One other question I wanted to ask you, Rochain, because you mentioned Mikel Antonio there and you know, it's a similar sort of point for fans that aren't necessarily dialed in all the time to what's happening at West Ham. They know about Mikel Antonio and they know obviously about the near fatal car crash that he had in December. And I think a lot of fans outside of West Ham like him have have tracked his story. They warmed to him. They will have seen him doing podcasts and, and things like that. You said there that he's going to be out of contract. I mean, do we know if he's ever going to be able to get back and play? Because they've certainly missed him. They've only scored, what, 13 in, in 15 games under Potter. So he and Falkrug missing. It's been a, it's been a big miss. So what's going to happen with, with him, do you think?
- [15:04]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, as you talk. So he's been, he's been a massive miss for, for West Ham. The fans love him. He's a fan favorite as far as I'm concerned. A club legend. West Ham's all time go Premier League. He's continuing his rehab at the, at the training ground in Russ Green still, but it's just a case where he, he's a long way off in terms of being back to full fitness, but he hopes to stay for another season. Talks of a new contract will, will start at the end of the season. But based on what I'm hearing and based on my gut feeling, I reckon it's a case where if he does get offered a new deal, it'll be on reduced terms. That's what I can see it being, because he doesn't have a strong case in the sense where he's missed a lot of football. He's coming back for serious injury. His. What's, what's the word I'm looking for? He's. How you even phrase it? Yes. It's not as strong as it would have been had he been playing and scoring goals, of course. But look, I personally would love it if he could stay for another year. Fan favorite West Ham legend. Dismiss his overall personality on the pitch, his overall presence and give him some, give him fans reason to feel optimistic and cheerful.
- [16:08]
Adam Levanthal
So Julian Lopetegui departed West Ham after the shortest managerial tenure in the club's 129 year history. So he sacked after just 22 games. Now, Roshane Graham Potter was given a two and a half year contract and you know, right here, right now, that's actually looking quite ambitious, even though it's not in line with what the club usually would do. But you almost feel like, are we moving into a new era here at West Ham where it's, it's short, sharp shocks to just try and keep, keep the team in the Premier League. Which is, which isn't great when you think about the heights that they were looking at. Winning a European trophy.
- [16:45]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, for sure. And if you remember back to when West Ham were negotiated with Graham Potter. The initial plan really was to appoint him to the season and that just looks for Graham Paul. That would have been for every manager. The board's preference would have been to put him on a jean to end the season and then go again in the summer. But I guess it was a case where Graham Potter wanted a longer contract, hence why he signed a two and a half year deal. To the point where when team Steyn and the former technical director would negotiate with Graham Potter, there was no progress made. So other members of the board took over. And hence why a deal was finalised in the end. Because prior it was dragging forever. Dragging forever. Now fans are looking at thinking two and a half year deal. We're not really seeing much progress. Is it the right appointment? And again, this is where supervising Graham park, because I touched on earlier the injuries and how he was limited in his attacking option, I think he gives this window, the summer window. Let him bring in his players. We see the system he wants to play event, let's say January, let's say, for example, if there's no progress, then. Look, you gotta look at think maybe it's time to make a decision here. Because the thing about Loptegi is he brought in all his players, nine players in total, last summer. And I must say, in my time covering West Ham, definitely one of the worst recruitments when I look back on it now, because 25 million on Lewis Guillermi, right? I like the kid. Actually, I got a funny story, in fact, what? Two weeks ago, I was at the training ground and he was like, hey, my friend. I'm like, hey, Lewis. Okay, yeah, my friend, help me. My bonnet. My body's not closing. Help me put my body down. I'm like, okay, Liz, no problem. So he's a lovely guy, Lovely guy. But unfortunately for 25 million, you're looking at a better, you know, better output. Kelman again, I like the guy, but he's not worth 40 million. Not worth 40 million, unfortunately. So you're looking at these sort of signings, you think, you know, you could have done better here with recruitment. Somerville, good player, but he struggled with injury. So this summer, West Ham have to get it right. Because if West Ham don't get it right. And again, this is based on what fans are telling me and based on what I'm hearing and seeing the fair is West Ham will be involved in a relegation fight next season if they don't get him out this summer. So you definitely got to do that. But what I would say is it's been Progress with Karl McCauley, the head of recruitment. He's worked with Graham Potter. Everywhere he's been. Everywhere he's been. Hence why two weeks ago, Graham Potter said, this will be an exciting summer for West Ham, so hopefully we do see progress. And the first to Graham part, in his first ever interview with the club, he referenced David Boys and said, look, we want to be back to those heights. We want to be back in Europe. After Arsenal Champions League win over Real Madrid, my question to him was, how nice would it be to see for you to have that same feeling with West Ham? And he sort of said, it'll be great. Hopefully we get very tired.
- [19:16]
Adam Levanthal
What, getting into the Champions League?
- [19:17]
Roshane Thomas
No, no, not Champions League. Sorry. I should have been better getting into Europe. Europa League.
- [19:22]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah, yeah, good. I thought you'd.
- [19:24]
Liam Tharm
I thought you'd gone.
- [19:24]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, I jumped ahead.
- [19:26]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah, exactly.
- [19:27]
Liam Tharm
Asking the hard questions.
- [19:28]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah. Liam, from your point of view, on the. On the issue of sort of how long managers need to bed themselves in, obviously you can look at examples at Bournemouth when Andonio Iriola didn't have a great start and he's gone on to do great things. It's happened at other clubs as well, where you need to be patient. Do you think that that is the right strategy with Potter, like what Roshane has said there, that he needs a full summer, albeit it's going to be difficult because you've brought in a lot of players, you need to shift them before you can bring in more. Do you think that this is the right strategy?
- [20:03]
Liam Tharm
I think West Ham, regardless of the coach, need a few windows, probably a couple of seasons to try and get back towards where they were. It's a much, I think, longer road to get back to compared to how quickly you can sort of fall from those heights. It's one of the oldest squads in the league. I think there's been a real shame to see such a lack of an academy pathway in recent years. When the academy FA Youth cup winners a couple of seasons ago, 21 to consistently finish really high up. I know there's some plans, players out alone in the EFL that Rochen can probably speak better on than I can. So there might be some graduates coming through, but I think they probably don't have that stable foundation that perhaps Brighton did when Potter came in there, and at the same time in Potter's first two seasons. So he arrived at Brighton in 2019, 20, off the back of their second Premier League season, where they'd been scrapping relegation under Chris Houghton, he had identical records. Potter, in his first two seasons at Brighton, nine wins, 14 draws, 15 losses. He got 41 points both times, which were marginal improvements on what Houghton managed. But the success that was seen at the club was, well, he's managed to sustain that Premier League status. While the squad's getting younger, players are leaving, that churn's coming through. You're implementing that new style, being a bit more sort of tactically flexible. And then they went and built on there in his third season to get a top half finish, which was the best in the club's history at the time. So I appreciate there might, or there definitely would have been sort of lesser immediate expectation of Brighton because they were two or three years removed, a championship club, an EFL club, whereas West Ham, you're talking now, two or three years of European champions and so Europa League semifinalists, etc. So I understand that the context there is very different, but I think, as Rushane said, there's definitely broader parts of the club that need more time to fix. When you're talking about perhaps previous windows where you've overspent or you've bought the wrong profiles and need to rebalance things.
- [21:40]
Adam Levanthal
Just tell us, Roshane, how Potter is now when you're interacting with him, because obviously he had that big high profile job at Chelsea at a time when it was crackers at the club and there was far too many players, there was players out in the corridor needing two, three pitches to house them all, etc. Etc. He bided his time as well. There was links with big clubs, Lyon and Ajax, for example, so that he waited for the right opportunity. Did he do work whilst he was away to ensure that he could hit the ground running? And maybe there's a bit of a worry that he's not been able to get that quite right yet.
- [22:22]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, well, in terms of what he got up to out of work, he learned Spanish, so he learned Spanish to help him communicate with some of the foreign players, would get back in management. He did poetry work, of course, but one thing particularly did a lot of scouting in Europe. He did a lot of scouting in Europe and he's very close guard in terms of revealing, like which game he went to or which target he's looking at. But he referenced that and how that will hopefully help him. And it was to the point where whenever he attended Premier League games, it often be at a club where managed under pressure and it reached the point where he stopped doing it. He stopped going to Premier League games because it's like, because there's one batch in particular, I think it was Arsenal v Crystal palace. And at the time, Roy Hoyston was under pressure and because Graham Potter was there with his son after the match, he was linked to the palace job and he was like, you know what? I'm gonna start going Europe. And as I thought of him going Europe, doing a lot more scouting, but ultimately the main thing he's doing is get a lot of advice from Austin. We're very close, very, very close. And last week, in fact, he was like, he's helped him a lot in terms of, you know, giving advice for his next Leggero role, giving advice in terms of the Hawksburst at Chelsea. He said he's really someone who's help out, helped him out, looked after him. So that hopefully put him a good stead. And you know what I compare it to? I compare it to where David Moy took over the second time because he was out of work for a long time. And what he did was he went to all these clubs scouting players so he could know who to look out for, so when he get back in management, he could sign them. So there definitely similarities between what David Moy did and what GR Port has done.
- [23:55]
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- [24:18]
Roshane Thomas
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- [24:29]
Adam Levanthal
So we'll have a look ahead to the summer in a moment. But Roshane, I wanted to just ask you about the situation that we've been in at West Ham this season as a whole. And I remember I'm a bit older than you, Roshane, but very similar situation at Charlton Athletic back in the day when everyone was thinking that they should really kick on. They were finishing sort of mid table, top 10, etc. Etc. They had Alan Kirby in charge and it was always be careful what you wish for. And that was exactly the same situation at West Ham. Be careful what you wish for. You've got David Moyes yet. It's not great, but he's, you know, he's solid. He's won a European trophy. Is there A feeling that, yeah, they got it wrong.
- [25:11]
Roshane Thomas
A strong feeling. A strong feeling. They got it wrong. I have to say, right, there's two people on his earth who love David Moyes. Number one is his wife. And I'm second. I'm second. I'm telling you, I'm second. Because what I love most about David Boyes is he allowed to build a club. He got West Ham. He got West Ham. He just. He knew about the fans, he knew about the academy, just he knew how to grow that club. And it was a natural journey with him because when he took over, he helped West Ham avoid relegation. And then it was the. The January which he signed Jesse Lingard and everyone's like, why is Lingard going to West Ham for. Lingard's passed it. And we all know how incredible Lingard was during his time at West Ham and for West Ham get to Europe, to Europe and then another journey in terms of West Ham reach the semi finals and then the following year with the Conference League. It was. It was a great journey with David Moyes and I know it ended West Ham lose a number of games, but my argument is, the reason why I ended that way is because there was so much uncertainty over Damon Moyes future and actually the players aren't going to be as committed when they know the manager could be leaving. So I feel that was a big part. But look, had David Moyes stayed at West Ham, I don't think they'll be where they are now.
- [26:16]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah. And also, especially when you've. You've seen him have an instant impact at Everton and, you know, just. They cruised away from any relegation worries after he took over Roisane. I'll come back to you on the transfer window in a moment's time, but Liam, I just wanted to sort of chart it back to the times at Brighton because obviously he had virtually no control over transfers at Chelsea. So it's very difficult to gauge what a perfect sort of Graham Potter player is. And he's also adopting, as we've mentioned, one of the oldest squads at West Ham. So what sort of player does he like?
- [26:58]
Liam Tharm
It's a really good question. I think he. He seems to work particularly well with. With younger players, tends to embed them quite well. You can look at sort of the list of the players that have come through him under Brighton that made Premier League debuts or gone on to bigger things, and there's a real mix of sort of nationalities and backgrounds in there, players that come from South America or sort of other parts of the world outside of Europe and then he's sort of helped sort of fit them in. So he works I think with players that are sort of young and perhaps a bit more moldable, a bit more sort of tactically flexible. He's never won really or wasn't a Brighton at least definitely not at Chelsea. And so for West Ham, perhaps more through necessity than choices, has been again really sort of tactically flexible. I think he wants players then he can use in sort of a variety of ways. It was I suppose, one of the reasons why sort of all those years ago now, Victor Jokers was a Brighton Academy graduate. You know, there wasn't really a place for him in the first team. He was a little bit too specific. He of course wasn't the forward that we see now over at Sporting and was part of the reason why he went to Coventry and then, and then left while Neil Morpe was, was the first choice number nine because he had a bit more about him in terms of being able to be the player to lead the press, to keep making those sprints, to be a bit more technical sort of in the build up play. So yeah, I think he seems to sort of place a lot of value on technicians and players that he can use in, in different interchangeable ways. I think there's plenty of those for its worth in the West Ham squad already. You can look at that sort of across the pitch. I think Pakhitaran Kudis especially, even though he's never really been a big fan of wingers, he seems to quite like those technical central players that can really unlock games and help to control games. And I'm really intrig see really what he does with Jared Bowen more than anything. Bowen, I think sort of four goals under him, is the top scorer under Potter so far. You know, his record at West Ham is absolutely phenomenal. To be honest, I'm quite shocked that no one's really come in for him and tried to buy him. I think he's one of the most unique players in the league and how well he can use both feet and the range of goals that he scores. Can be a bit of a winger, can be a bit of a striker. Potter never really liked wingers in his time at Brighton. In fact, his tenure ended at Brighton just before he joined Chelsea. Sort of playing a wing back system with Solly March and Leandro Trossard as his wing backs on the opposite side to their strong foot. So where he ends up using Jared Bowen I think has been so far a variety of roles and we'll see. But Yeah, I think his, his preference of style, of player or the players he's worked well with in, in the past are perhaps not all the same that he's currently got at West Ham, but I think he's shown throughout his career that he's probably gone to enough different clubs or in enough different leagues, different roles, that he's probably fairly versatile to, to work through what he's.
- [29:22]
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- [29:48]
Adam Levanthal
Race the rudders. Race the sails.
- [29:50]
Roshane Thomas
Race the sails.
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- [29:54]
Adam Levanthal
Over. Roger, wait, is that an enterprise sales solution?
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- [30:21]
Adam Levanthal
So, heading into this weekend's game against Brighton, West Ham are winless in six games. And let's not forget we were talking about it earlier on, they have just played Southampton and they just didn't. They didn't beat Southampton, which is. Which is quite something. And then after Brighton, they've got spurs at home, Manchester United away, other relegation scrappers, Forest at home and Ipswich, who unfortunately for them, they have gone down away from home to come. It's vital, Roshane, that they get some positivity going into this summer, isn't it?
- [30:54]
Roshane Thomas
Well, Adam, I've actually enjoyed this podcast until you reminded me about the upcoming fixtures. So. So, yeah, it's important, especially with hopefully a win against Brighton on Saturday. But I must say, Brighton has been West Ham's pokey team in the Premier League. So it's going to be tough. I think in terms of my time covering West Africa flag, I've only seen West Ham win once at the Eric Stadium. So it's going to be a tough encounter. And you know what, it's to the point where because the season has been so underwhelming, I actually have a countdown on my phone for when the season ends. And in case anyone. It's actually 30 days. It's 30 days if anyone. If anyone wants to know. So, yeah, but in all seriousness, West Ham have to try and end the season because it's been so underwhelming and there's been people doubting whether Graham Potter is the right man to bring this club forward. But you need to end the season the high to give fans reason to be optimistic.
- [31:41]
Liam Tharm
Rushane says they have nothing to play for and he's probably fairly right. But I think there's an interesting sort of just dynamic going on in the bottom half where, you know, we're talking about West Ham and 17th and they are there, but they're also two points off David Moyes. Everton in 13th. So there's a real cluster of sort of five teams there with Tottenham, with Wolves, Manchester United and Everton that, you know, we're talking maybe a. A good run of form. Two or three wins from the final five games might put them in a position where they're sort of 14, 13th. And I think that outlook can suddenly look very different going into the next season. Rather than seeing yourself immediately by the relegation zone, the reality is they are 15 points sort of above that. I know they're literally in the position next to it, but we're in this weird sort of Premier League. It's kind of a series of tables rather than one. You've got obviously the, the race for Europe that's really spit up. Liverpool that are clear, sort of clear champions at the top. You got seven points between palace and 12th and Everton in 13th that I think West Ham will really be looking to, you know, if they can get up towards where Everton sort of are now, then hope that next season they can really push on and sort of get into that chasing pack into the middle order. That Russian was speaking about, where you've got all the clubs really, that the. The Bournemouth and Brighton, Brentford sort of section where you say they've actually been really smart in the past few years. They're. The teams at West Ham should probably be aspiring to be a bit more like in their recruitment style of play, their approach.
- [32:53]
Adam Levanthal
Yeah. And on Brighton because obviously they're taking them on. And, you know, we had a bit of a go at West Ham for being in poor form. Brighton in poor form as well. Six games without a win. If you include that FA cup defeat against Nottingham Forest. And I wanted to get your take on, you know, another young manager in a similar way to when, you know, Graham Potter was at Brighton. He was a really young manager, like Fabian Herzla and the fans were singing, you know, know, you don't know what you're doing, etc. Etc. Are they starting to turn on him?
- [33:24]
Liam Tharm
I think some of the Away fan base were particularly upset with the performance against Brentford. And I said that I was actually, I was actually at the game and writing something on a. On a Brentford perspective just how good sort of Mbuimo and Visser were for context there. You don't know what you're doing. Chant was specifically when Danny Welbert was taken off. So Bryce had gone down to 10 men. Jael Pedro was sent off. He lashed out. I think it was Nathan Collins kind of off the ball. Very sort of petulant, petulant red card. And he'd taken world back off and said afterwards that he wanted sort of those. He brought on sort of more wing backs and wanted to have wingers then sort of running in behind. And it actually worked quite quickly early on where Kara Mittima came on, got him behind and actually scored and you know, Bryson had chances to maybe equalize and make it 33 before it became 4 2. So you don't know what you're doing sort of was. Was, I think quite quickly sort of drowned out. I actually remember a similar game Potter had away to West Ham where West Ham were 3:1 up. This, I think this would have been a Moyes game a few years ago now where he took a striker off, went to a wing back system and it ended working. So you do get these instances where, you know, coaches see something that the fans don't. And it's always a reminder that there's a reason why it's Fabian Hertz in the dugout and not perhaps some of the Brighton away support. But I think they've got justified reason to be upset with the inconsistency of this season. They've raised their game really, really well against better teams. You know, he's, he's taken four points off Manchester City beaten Manchester United, you know, taken points off of Arsenal that they've beaten Spurs. They've really raced their game against top, top side. So I think the idea that, you know, Herzler and his, you know, not only his first season in the Premier League, but his first season in a major European division, he came straight from the second tier of Germany. He's a young guy, he's still learning, he's got injuries to manage. I think it's almost hard to reconcile being good against better teams. And then when they are perhaps like West Ham have had under Potter recently, struggling against teams that are closer to them in the league or definitely teams lower down in the table when they can't always break down that low block or a team that sits off them, I think there's fair judgment to be perhaps critical and frustrated because you're feels quite accessible or in touching distance this season if they were a bit more consistent. But look, this is probably going to be the second best season, maybe at worst the third best season in the club's history. So I think any bright fan at the start of the season probably would have taken where they are now. And you're talking about a team that's, that's one point behind Bournemouth in eighth, who are in a European position that, you know, this season might, in terms of how people rate it, hinge on if they get Europe or not. But I think you have to be really, really cynical to not see sort of any positives in that. And at the same time, I think when you go long stretches without winning like they have done at times this season, that is equally sort of jarring. So they've been a mix of really good and quite poor and kind of averaged out somewhere in the middle, which I think fans don't always sort of know how to deal with.
- [35:57]
Adam Levanthal
Last word to you, Roshane. You know you've already said that you count down the days to the end of this season. I want you to get your crystal ball out and tell me where you think West Ham are going to be at this time next season. What's the feeling?
- [36:13]
Roshane Thomas
That's a great question. I reckon in around top 10.
- [36:18]
Adam Levanthal
Oh, okay. Glass half full, Rochane.
- [36:20]
Roshane Thomas
Yeah, in around top 10, I reckon. Because listen, I'm hoping Graham Potter has a good window and then next season we see the Graham Potter, like the team wants to achieve this and I know it hasn't been great, but in a match that West Ham have done well in, as I mentioned earlier, the narrow loss against Chelsea, the win over Arsenal, even the narrow loss against Liverpool, like when West Ham play like that, it takes your mind off the struggles this season. So hopefully we see that on a more consistent basis next season with the players. Grah Potter wants brush.
- [36:48]
Adam Levanthal
Shane. Brilliant. Thank you very much indeed, Liam. The same to you as well. Don't forget we got reaction and analysis to all of the weekend's football in the Premier League, the FA cup semi finals as well, this weekend and around the world on the Athletic, the website and the app. And we will be back on Monday.
- [37:08]
Liam Tharm
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aili Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [37:31]
Dave Defore
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.