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- [00:00]
TurboTax Advertiser
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- [00:57]
Bill.com Advertiser
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- [01:30]
James Lawrence Olcott
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- [01:49]
Ayo Akinwaleere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. Chelsea are out of the Champions league league after an 82 humbling to PSG. So after such a great defeat, what does this mean for head coach Liam Racinha? Joining us today for this one making his Athletic FC podcast debut, we've got James Lawrence Olcott, broadcaster and content creator. How you feeling, brother?
- [02:20]
James Lawrence Olcott
Thank you. Yeah, this is surreal. I've never been in the room, so this is wonderful. I just met John McKenzie.
- [02:26]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Oh, there we go.
- [02:27]
James Lawrence Olcott
Big, big moment. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [02:29]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Big brains collide. I and also the athletics, Jack Pitt Brook as well. Good to have you with us, Jeffrey.
- [02:34]
Jeffrey
Thanks for having me.
- [02:34]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Let's get into this, gents. A big night of Champions League action. We now know the first four quarter finalists, Arsenal, psg, Sporting and also Real Madrid. But let's focus on Chelsea. After what some might call a humiliating defeat to psg, it was the joint heaviest defeat in the club's history across a two legged tie. James, two things really. Did Rossini get this badly wrong or did this show just the golfing class between these two clubs, especially where recruitment's involved?
- [03:05]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think it, it's a fascinating one because I think you have the identity of a certain section of Chelsea fans and understandably so with the success that they've had over the years. And so getting done 8, 2 like that is just not what they kind of understand to be correct these days. At the same time, when you look at the team that was on the pitch there, the resources in terms of the quality of those players, were massively different in my opinion. And the sort of the resources on the pitch, partly down to injuries, Rhys James and Matt Augusto, meant a change of tactics. But sort of one question I sort of asked myself was in terms of where Chelsea are trying to get to, which will probably lead onto those broader discussions that we can have about Chelsea, is that a couple of injuries and all of a sudden you've got to go to a back three. And that back three did not work for Chelsea. You saw it within, what was it, six minutes in terms of sa. And when you watch that goal, actually as much as SA is struggling in that situation, he actually, once he makes that mistake, yes, that's an individual error, but there's no help from around him at all. And that comes back to the tactical side, which comes back to the fact that they've got injuries and they don't have a squad that is strong enough. And the question I asked myself was how many injuries would an Arsenal squad need for them to make a drastic tactical change? It would be a lot, I think, and maybe in terms of what's sort of in vogue right now, what's working right now defensively in particular, Arsenal are, are so strong and have so many great players that they don't need to make those changes, which means there's that consistency and therefore quality in terms of their, their performances. So I think that was part of it. When you've got Sar and Hatto and Chalaba as your back three, you then got to play wing backs. I then think you add into that the quality of this PSG side.
- [04:52]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Different, different gravy, the legs that they
- [04:55]
James Lawrence Olcott
have and it kind of all came together to, to be pretty devastating because the second goal for me, and it's actually happened on both occasions, which I think you could put to Liam Rossinha here, is that Kukureya could not deal with Hakimi and his deep runs in having for a goal in the first leg happened for the second goal in this. Yes, there's an individual era which again I think comes from like not that tactical chemistry and cohesion within that group. So there's a lot of play here, but it all kind of keeps coming back round, I think to the, to the squad building and that includes Liam Rossignior in terms of that squad building because you know, you've had a reset in terms of changing a manager this year. So I don't know what you're really, really expecting if you're, if you're a Chelsea fan right now.
- [05:38]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, it's a really good point. And just before you arrived, actually I was just talking about Rossinha and he was appointed when you with this half cooked team. But you know, we're seeing boos, we're seeing fans disgruntled by the style of football and also the naivety of this team. But is it his fault or is it more to do with a wider build of a squad that's not quite there yet?
- [05:56]
Jeffrey
I think it can be both. I think that going out the Champions League at this point is damaging for a senior because he, you know, he's only been in the job since January, but he already feels to me like. Doesn't feel like he has a lot of credit in the bank with Chelsea fans. I think that the reaction to him and the team in the last few weeks has been very negative. I also think it's very bad for the hierarchy. The fact is that for any ownership group, the Champions League is really where you establish a sense of prestige. They've been wanting to get back in the Champions League for years. They obviously ended last season under Maresca really well, winning the Conference League, winning the Club World cup. And when they won that Club World Cup, I think there was a bit of a feeling that Chelsea are kind of back at the top table, right? They're ready to compete with the biggest teams in Europe again. And then to get dumped out of the Champions League in this way by the team who they beat in the final of the Club World cup is really, really painful. I think it goes to show, I think it's not just the gap in resources between Chelsea and psg, but also I think on one level A kind of gap in strategic thinking like PSG are, you know, having had years in which PSG were a bit of a circus, like, PSG are now a team which is absolutely cohered around Luis Enrique's vision on the pitch, and he is able to bring in the players who he wants and he's built what is clearly the best team in Europe at the moment. I think they showed that again over the course of this tie. Whereas Chelsea, I just don't feel like it's not just to do with the level of players. It's also. I'm not sure they're necessarily building around the vision of a manager in quite the same way. And I think that really shows.
- [07:23]
Ayo Akinwaleere
And that's because they've had quite a lot of people at the helm at Chelsea. Right. Can you see the vision?
- [07:28]
James Lawrence Olcott
I can see the top line of the vision, which is, you know, you keep bringing in these young players. And I think everyone who's trying to. Would be trying to be optimistic about the philosophy here is that you get to a point and you go, right, those eight are great. We don't need those three or four, we'll let those go out. And we've got so many stockpiled that that also brings in money, which helps with everything. But at some point, you have to let a team grow and build. And I think even if you're standing still, you're going backwards, especially with these top teams. So I think the stagnation of both, and it all comes back to last summer, as you say, you saw the growth and you saw the quality that they had there in places. But then they needed a center back. Yes. And they needed to build those leaders. And in terms of building those leaders, someone like Levi Cole is not available. So that blanket rule of just these young lads, at some point you need to be able to kind of grow and maybe add one piece or another piece to allow you to have the stability to grow long term again. I go back, I often go back to Arsenal in terms of how they've got to where they are now. There's a lot of players there that are still young, but have played a hell of a lot of games together with this team. There are certain elements of it, but there's too much change on the periphery. And so the floor is.
- [08:44]
Ayo Akinwaleere
It's taken Arsenal a while to get here. If you think about the constant change in Churn. Emil Smith Rowe, a player now we thought was the future of Arsenal, is now at Fulham. You know, Alex Iwobi, similar. You know, Arsenal have also gone through this journey and perhaps that's where Chelsea fundamentally are. No.
- [08:58]
James Lawrence Olcott
Yeah. But to ask you the question, as a, As a fan of the club, have you ever felt that they're going backwards? I think they constantly felt like they were moving forwards because you've got players, you know, to this point of leadership, you have the likes of Declan Rice, Gabrielle, literally every player on that pitch. Now that they feel like leaders. Now, did they feel like leaders that first year when they sort of burst onto the scene? No, but they've grown and progressed together with Chelsea, both in the squad building of the team. But again with Mareska, if he's not invested in, in terms of one or two pieces, he then goes. And then tactically, you're coming back round to this reset where that team doesn't know how they play every single time. And you're. You're trying things against the team that I had to go and look at it, they've scored eight goals from an XG of 1.99. So the two things can be true. And the other thing I think that's really important here is that this PSG team, in terms of the. How clinical they can be in, in
- [09:55]
Ayo Akinwaleere
terms of their finishing, frightening Rolls Royce Bar, Dembele, Kvaladzkelia. I mean, the list goes on, doesn't it? Like that. I mean, but that, yet again, is recruitment. Well, let's move on, because to make things a little worse, I would say after the match, captain Enzo Fernandez cast doubt on his future when he was asked whether he could guarantee he could continue at Chelsea next season. He's basically said, I don't know. Right now I'm thinking here there are eight games left in the Premier League and the FA cup and then there's the World cup and then we'll see. We'll see. I mean, look, chances to a row, come on. Like, this is. This is a player they. They spent a hell of a lot of money on. And he actually has been a shining light for Chelsea this season. But this is not what you want to be hearing when we're talking about dysfunction within the ranks.
- [10:43]
James Lawrence Olcott
No, because I guess in terms of the possible leaders, he probably, you know, someone who was that key signing, marquee signing right at the start of it. He has been there throughout. There has been progression, I think, in terms of his performances.
- [10:54]
Jeffrey
Yeah, definitely.
- [10:54]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I think so. Yeah.
- [10:55]
James Lawrence Olcott
The question I came to with that one was I looked at his sort of value on online and it was saying that he was about 80 million. He was worth 80 million. My question would be, is like, would you like that money or is he irreplaceable in the sense of, you know, he's so good that you don't want that 80 million?
- [11:11]
Jeffrey
I would rather have Fernandes than have the money, in part because I wouldn't necessarily back, necessarily back Chelsea to replace. If they had that money, would they be able to buy someone better?
- [11:19]
James Lawrence Olcott
They're gonna buy three 19 year olds.
- [11:21]
Jeffrey
There's only so many good midfielders in the world. And if you've got a guy who is proven in the Premier League, can score goals, can make a difference in big games, which is what he's done in the last, particularly in the last year or two, I would probably rather have him.
- [11:33]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think he's an interesting player in the sense that he sort of found this. This role that works for him. But as a player, he's not a Declan Rice or a Caicedo where he's got outrageous hustle and bustle. He's actually quite. He's a bit more Lampardesque in the sense of, like his timing of scoring goals, arriving at the right time. And so, you know, he's the third top scorer, second most goals and assists. That's in the Premier League for Chelsea. So when it goes bad, I think he could be the guy that you can go after a little bit. But when it's going well, he shows the class days that he has. So, yeah, I don't know. I think you're probably right because that's a great point. Once you've got the 8 million, are you going to spend it correctly?
- [12:10]
Ayo Akinwaleere
We have to talk about the huddle situation from last week. Jack, I thought, was really fascinating. Obviously, the players were huddled in the center circle and Paul Tini was right in the middle of it, looking really sheepish. Right. Rossini basically said at the end of the game, you know, the players are there to respect the ball. The worry with Rocinha, and I'm not pointing an arrow on him because he's not the problem with Chelsea at this moment in time, or the full problem with Chelsea at this moment in time is that I guess some of the stuff he says has been sort of extrapolated to make him look like this sort of David Brent character and stuff like that. So when you do have results like this, when you do have situations like that, everyone's like, who is this guy? Like, at the helm of Chelsea?
- [12:51]
Jeffrey
Yeah, there's quite a bad dynamic that I think when people on the outside start thinking that you're cringe like anything that you say will get viewed through that prism. Whereas other managers. I mean other managers say and do cringe stuff all the time. All the time. But they get away with it. And I. And that's inseparable, I think ultimately from results. The fact is that if, If. If Chelsea won that game, I don't think people would have seen this as quite as much of a joke. But obviously because they lost and they are playing quite badly at the moment. They got five points in the last five league games. People are going to latch onto stuff like this and they're not going to. If they'd won, maybe people would say, oh look, you know, they. They proved their unity. They proved that they're not going to get pushed around by anyone. When you lose at home to Newcastle United. They were really bad that day. Then all of a sudden people say what a stupid gimmick. What are they playing at? It's a really unhelpful dynamic for the manager.
- [13:37]
James Lawrence Olcott
Yeah. And I wonder if he. When he gets home or any hears about like. I mean even in the press conference yesterday, the Enzo Fernandez thing comes out and you could imagine he's just going, come on, give me a chance. I don't think the huddle thing helps him either. And. But ultimately, if you really kind of break that down, what he is trying to do is empower that group to reveal its leaders. And if that's. They want to do that all together, then there's not. There's not a huge problem with that. What's made it a bigger thing? One is like where they're doing it and then secondly, I think the. I think the referee in that game, I don't think he helped. I think he made it a bigger story than.
- [14:15]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I think so. I think so.
- [14:16]
Jeffrey
What do you mean by that? Do you think Paul Tinney should have got out the way?
- [14:19]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think if it's Newcastle's kickoff, I think it was so I think he goes. He knows that that's happening. I think they'd spoken about that prior to it. If he's worried about the ball, you go, lads. Gives the ball. I doubt about this respect the ball thing. I've looked into it too.
- [14:33]
Ayo Akinwaleere
No, you don't have to.
- [14:33]
Jay Harris
If.
- [14:34]
James Lawrence Olcott
If the ball is involved in as part of the ritual, then well, sorry, I'm the ref. I've got to take the ball. But if you need that moment then, then like, so be it. The standing in the middle. I just.
- [14:45]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I mean he could have got out of the way. He could have gone, lads, just give Me a second, like. And let's not say he made it about him, but he ended up being the centerpiece there.
- [14:51]
Jeffrey
Let's face it, I don't think he made it about him. I think he's entitled to stand where he wants. There is a small part of me this is going to sound very silly, so I hope it doesn't end up on social media.
- [14:58]
Ayo Akinwaleere
It will.
- [14:59]
Jeffrey
There's a small part of me that thinks he should have sent them all off.
- [15:04]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Could you imagine another set it off for Chelsea and disappearing?
- [15:07]
Jeffrey
I'd have to double check under what circumstances the referee can send off players before kickoff. Or like, can you sub them in before? Can you sub in alternative? But I don't know. I think it was. That would have been box office Premier League drama if he had produced the
- [15:20]
James Lawrence Olcott
red card before kickoff to the Rocinha point. The reason this huddle becomes a bigger thing, I think if Newcastle were doing it, I don't think it becomes as big of a story. But because of the Racinia man age, all that stuff and then you see something like that, you can attach the two and there's something in that, isn't there?
- [15:38]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah.
- [15:39]
James Lawrence Olcott
So I think that's. That's not helped with all of it. I fear that he will be the full guy. But I think certainly what I've seen from Chelsea fans after the game, the issue is not wholeheartedly with him, but because he is a story with the way that he speaks.
- [15:53]
Jeffrey
I think the real problem he's got with respect the ball and this reputation he's developed is you only get one chance to make a first impression. And the fact is that he obviously had a really good playing career, but he's not known to anyone really in the uk, at least in the Premier League level as a manager, people weren't that familiar with his cv, I think. And so it's not like, you know, in the past where Chelsea would bring in like a Mourinho or a Conte or a Tuchel or Sarri or whoever. He's got a lot more to prove. And I think the fact that this has become the impression, like we can argue about whether or not it's his fault, but this impression has. This is like people's impression of him, I think, in a large part. And that makes it something that. That's kind of difficult for him. Right. Even though it's not his fault, like this impression has coalesced around him and now like everybody sees everything that he does and says through that, through that prison.
- [16:42]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Okay, well, before we talk about Manchester City, Madrid, I just want to have a quick word and you. We've had little sprinkles of it so far, a PSG and where they are right now, because this feels almost similar to last season, the Champions League, when they start. Get to this phase and they start ramping it up and you're seeing what they are made of. I'm just going to put it out there. Are they favorites for this competition? Jack?
- [17:06]
Jeffrey
I would if I had. I don't know. I. Not for me, but I think it's really close. I just think. I think I. If I was betting, which I'm not allowed to do, I would probably go more for Arsenal or Bayern Munich. Just.
- [17:20]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Oh, really?
- [17:21]
Jeffrey
I just think it's really hard. It's kind of hard to retain the champions.
- [17:24]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Other than Real Madrid, no one has really ever done it.
- [17:26]
Jeffrey
Yeah, they've got an issue, the keeper this season, clearly, which I'm not sure they've managed that exactly right. But when they are on it, they are so good to watch. I think they're the best team to watch the last, like, probably the last five, 10 years. I think that they have. What really does it for me is they have taken a kind. It's not a totally new style. Like, you know, we saw Luis Enrique's brilliant Barcelona team, the MSN team, play a little bit like this, but they've added. They're so, like, the build up from the back is so good. So technical. Unbelievable technical quality in the middle of the pitch. The way that those three rotate around, they never lose the ball. And then I think the quickest frontier I've ever seen. I don't think I've ever like. Like having Kvara, Dembele, Nicola Due. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like how they play, how they attack. And that's even before you get onto Nuna, Mendes and Hakimi at fullback. Like, they are just unbelievably good to watch. And I think when they're. When they're really on it, there's no one like them. And if they are. If they can hit the levels they hit in the back end of last season's competition, I think even. I think they could be Arsenal, I think they could be Bayern Munich.
- [18:28]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think the draw is harder for them, which I think kind of takes away. But I agree, I absolutely love watching them. And, you know, again, when you bring it to these things, to these other teams and Chelsea in particular, they have such commitment in how they play and that comes from the confidence that they have in how they play. And they're so dynamic off the ball as well. Like their press is just lethal. The sort of deep runs that Mendes or hakimi can play for. 10 is one of my favorite players to watch in the world and he, he just drifts off to different places. But they all absolutely know what they're doing. They are, they're a joy to watch. I'd love to see a PSG Arsenal final that would be so fascinating. Like over the course of a year you start to see themes of, you know, of a season. And I think we saw that a little bit last year and there was a, it was an antidote that came from psg, I think with what Arsenal are, and I don't want to discredit them whatsoever, but I would just love to see them come up up against a team that is so attackingly frightening that you might make them buckle a bit. Because I think Arsenal defensively are just outstanding.
- [19:34]
Jeffrey
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere.
- [19:40]
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- [20:41]
Pablo Torre
Torre from Pablo Torre Finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill, it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan savings claim, based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com when
- [21:37]
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- [22:12]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Manchester City lost 51 on aggregate to Real Madrid Pep Guardiola has lost both legs of a Champions League knockout stage tie for the fourth time, with three of those coming against Real Madrid. Right, let's get the perspectives on of the Athletics. Manchester City correspondent Sam Lee, who was watching the events at the Etihad I
- [22:32]
Sam Lee
think everybody knew how this game was going to go tonight. 30 last week it was always going to be basically impossible to overturn it and after City's draw at the weekend there wasn't much optimism. I felt among the fan base that they were actually going to turn it around, but the way that they battled and the way that they showed spirit, the way they started the game, although they lost, I think that spirit went a long way towards kind of winning City fans back around and maybe showing them that the team does have a lot that they can achieve next season. Now look, they've lost five one on aggregate, but we talked about the reasons for that last week. It was a very attack minded, gung ho, uncharacteristic Guardiola lineup. Give them more no chance and then Bernardo Silva gets sent off for a instinctive but ultimately extremely costly handball. So we know it's game over. But the way the City kept fighting inside the stadium, it felt like they not really won the fans over, but I think it convinced a few people that they are on the Right track. We know they're flawed. We know they're not as good as they always used to be, but they got loads of new players. They got players who aren't used to Guardiola football. They're gelling together. There's going to be bumps in the road. This was one of the bumps in the road last week, was a big bump in the road. But I think their fighting spirit tonight showed that there's a lot of promise in the team. And in terms of how City feel going into the final, I dare say, although they've been beaten and it was definitely not mission accomplished, I think there is some hope.
- [23:56]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Sam talks about fighting spirit, talks about promise in the team. Is that what you saw last night, Jeff?
- [24:01]
Jeffrey
I saw fighting spirit. The players did work really hard and I sort of agree with bits of what Sam said. I thought in the first leg they weren't terrible. They did create a bit before they got picked off. They. Yesterday, I thought they started the game really well and I thought if they'd got a goal early on before the red card, then maybe it would have been a different day. That said, I don't feel like there's promising this team. I feel like this is a team which to me looks a little bit confused in what it's trying to do and feels a bit like Guardiola has been kind of scrambling around all season for a different way of playing, a different way to attack. And that is. It's not really delivered results like their season is. You know, they've obviously got this huge league cup final on Sunday. They've got Liverpool in the FA cup on the Easter weekend, but the path to a successful season is really narrowing.
- [24:48]
Ayo Akinwaleere
You don't see the Premier League in for City at all this season.
- [24:51]
Jeffrey
No. They've just drawn with Nottingham Forest and West Ham. Like, I think they've been really unconvincing in the last few weeks, but I think they've been unconvinced deep down. I think they've probably been unconvincing for longer than that because they're so dependent on. They've built this new individualistic style of play which is so dependent on Haaland. But Haaland stopped scoring and the team stopped working. I think it's as simple as that.
- [25:08]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Like any great master, at some point those powers start waning, bro. Like, this is the hard one, isn't it? This is the great Guardiola. If you look on paper, players on that pitch for City are extraordinary, actually, from Turkey to Bernardo Silva to whatever. So the Squad's there, but the city we know doesn't seem to be there when we're watching.
- [25:27]
James Lawrence Olcott
Yeah, I agree with the idea that. I think he. I think he's always been at the forefront and I think he's always been ahead, you know, in terms of what he thinks can work and even that, you know, the first year in the prem, he got that, like, realization of, okay, there needs to be that gentle tweak, but still, he can kind of retain those elements, and he's always been able to be a step ahead. Everyone goes, oh, okay, we should play that way. And he's already gone again. I think in the last two years, that married with, you know, the end of an era in terms of some of the playing squad has led to him. I don't want to say guessing, but sort of working between different solutions. You know, Semenya and Turkey are incredibly different players. And I think him trying to find the balance between how he probably wants to play, the rise in individualism and the need for that, but also how physical the Premier League is. I think that's something that he's. He's been a little bit troubled by. And so he's brought in some menu and played him straight away. That's not always been the case. And I think I thought yesterday, I thought the first 20 minutes, they were really good. I thought they sort of gave the keys to Cherokee, which I like that, and I think that might be the answer. But the issue with him then, in certain games is going the other way. You're playing with one player.
- [26:36]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Do you buy a player to defend? I mean, like, that's who's clearly so amazing. Look at Eden Hazard, for instance. No one's asking him to defend. Just let him do what he does at that side of the.
- [26:45]
Jeffrey
He always used to.
- [26:45]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, true.
- [26:46]
Jeffrey
To get his attacking players to do, like, tons of pressing and defensive work. That was like the whole. That was how the whole system worked. Like back in the good old days when it was, like, sane and sterling. Either side of Aguero, those guys were working incredibly hard. And now look at Jack Grealish. He bought Jack Grealish from aston villa in 2021, at which point Grealish was like, one of the most exciting players in the Premier League. And he just made him fit into the system. He just made him work. And we can argue about whether Grealish fulfilled his potential at City or not, but there was no question that Grealish Pep didn't meet Grealish halfway. Like, Grealish had to really fit into the city system. But now he's signing, you know, whether it's Doku, Semenya, Shaki, like, they're all. I think they. I think they've all got a lot more leeway than city players used to. Used to get. It's a lot more of an individualized system than they ever used to have.
- [27:36]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think, I mean, Cherokee as well, he's. You know, you've seen. He's lost a lot of weight. I think he's kind of moving in that direction. So I think. I think. I actually think there has been certainly progress from last year in terms of trying to find that blend that's going to work in the Premier League and. And in Europe. Like, I think there's a broader conversation might be interesting in the sense of a PSG team that we've just been sort of lording the sort of week in week out of the physicality of the Premier League. Like, how would that affect their exuberance and the way that they're able to rotate and do all that, do all those things like, that might play or even just understand that this is my best team. I think Pep's not been able to kind of find that wholeheartedly this year. He's sort of. He's tweaked and changed in terms of kind of the ideology, but the clear structure of the team as well.
- [28:21]
Jeffrey
I think the Premier League is. I think the Premier League has always been very physically hard, but it's so much harder now than it was in the sort of peak Pep years. Like, in the peak pep years, they would often have games, you know, in the Premier League, often at home, let's say Bournemouth or Burnley or something.
- [28:35]
James Lawrence Olcott
Cpr, I remember.
- [28:36]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, you had to throw that in there.
- [28:38]
James Lawrence Olcott
Yeah.
- [28:38]
Jeffrey
But they would be like 4, 5, nil up. And then it's like De Bruyne off, Davos Silva off, Aguero off. And now we're just going to keep the ball for the last 30 minutes. And now that doesn't really happen so much anymore. And now every single Premier League game is such a physical battle, and the players just have to really exhaust themselves 38 times a year. And if PSG are playing, with all due respect, Lorient Valenciennes or whoever, they don't have to go through that.
- [29:01]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, it's not the same intensity.
- [29:02]
James Lawrence Olcott
I had Isaac Hayden on my podcast a couple of weeks ago, and he said that Rafa Benitez had a very clear idea that when we go to a city or a Liverpool, we want a 2 nil. Defeat is a good defeat because goal difference wise, the other teams that kind of have a little go at it, they get pumped six and by the end of the season you've got 25 goal difference than the other teams. So that was the, the thought process back then. I know Glenn Murray said the same thing where like you'd be in the tunnel as I'm sitting and thinking, what are we going to do here? There's not that same fear now. There really isn't. So those games are basketball matches and I think that is, I think that's confusing me a little bit. So I mean, cheek to see how much energy he has to find the solutions.
- [29:40]
Ayo Akinwaleere
That was my next question is this, does this look like a man who has the energy to carry this forward to next season? Because there is a feeling here, and he said it, that watch us cook next season. Right. Like I'm just trying to figure it out right now. He's also said we have an extraordinary team, an extraordinary group of players. The future is bright. Does he have the energy to carry this into another season?
- [30:01]
Jeffrey
I don't know. When I look at a lot of what they've done this year, I don't think they've been doing stuff for next season. I think they've been doing stuff for right now like they've been buying peak age players, you know, G's 25, Semenya is 26, Donnarumma is 27. I think a lot of stuff that he's. I think a lot of stuff that Pep's done this season. Looks to me like he is trying to quickly assemble something which will work for this year and maybe, and this is just a hype, just me speculating, maybe get him one last title and then he can say goodbye. Do you remember when Sir Alex Ferguson bought Van Persie?
- [30:31]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, he did. To win the title and they won it.
- [30:33]
Jeffrey
Who's the best player we can get on the market right now to plug into my team? Van Persie, sign him for Arsenal, win the league and then it's goodbye. And I think, particularly if you look at, say, Donna Romis, such a departure from how Edison used to play, like City have completely ripped up how they used to play. They changed the backroom staff, they've changed the goalkeeper, they've got a much more individualistic style. To me that, to me it feels like that is short term management. It's not necessarily trying to build one last great team. So I don't know, I'm not, I'm not being convinced by what he has said and done this season that he's building. This is built to last.
- [31:05]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Some of these players that he's bought aren't typical. Gotti. If you think about it and you talk about this individualism, moving forward and the style of play, surely, I mean, this is what I'm saying. I'm like. I mean, surely he's just trying to do something different, but he might take time to get to that solution. Because you've also got Arteta on one side doing something completely different.
- [31:25]
James Lawrence Olcott
So different. You know, I think it's. It's interesting with him. Something people don't talk about with Pep a lot of the time is that when he's setting up his team, he thinks that he does think about the opposition and how you can, you know, hurt their. Their weaknesses. So I think he enjoys that, that. That finding of solutions. Does he like the taste of the solutions that he needs to find? Yeah, because I thought his comments yesterday were interesting in the sense that it. It sounded like someone that will make a decision. I don't think it'd be based around results. I think it'd be based around his energy for enjoying to find those solutions. Because he has done all these different things and he. And he. He wasn't happy with the. With the question about, you know, are you not happy that you've won only one Champions League with Man City? I think he's in a space where it's like, I try my best, like. And I think when you get to a certain level of success, you know, your outlook needs to kind of become that, I think, instead of kind of looking backwards. So without trying to get too deep and meaningful, I think it's. I think the thing that I think he would be most excited about is figuring it out.
- [32:31]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, same, same. And I think that's how Guardiola's brain works, because I do think he's an intellectual in that respect, is that he's trying to solve a problem like the mad scientist in the lab. And until he gets to that point, then he's not ready to walk away. But anyway, we need to talk about all the other Champions League matches as well. Barcelona versus Newcastle, that's currently one one. We've also got spurs versus Atletico Madrid. Spurs losing that at the moment, five two. Bayern versus Atalanta. That six one. And finally Liverpool for. Versus Galatasaray. Galatasaray. One nil up on that one. First up, very quickly on Liverpool. Can they turn this around?
- [33:08]
James Lawrence Olcott
I think it's such a huge game because the Champions League nights to get that change of feeling because the fans aren't happy at all. So I think it will be incredibly revealing today. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't think you can trust Liverpool this year.
- [33:21]
Jeffrey
They were really poor, weren't they, against Tottenham the other day? I mean, they've been unconvincing, I think for a while. I think they will. Maybe they'll just have enough. But then even if they do, I mean, you would imagine they would get beaten by PSG in the next round.
- [33:34]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Okay, let's move on because next up we'll talk about the shock news that is the result of the 2025 African cup of Nation. The final has now been reversed. We've got Jay Harris to talk about it next.
- [33:52]
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- [34:53]
Pablo Torre
Torre from Pablo Torre finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill, it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan Savings claim based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com when
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- [36:24]
James Lawrence Olcott
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akinwaleere.
- [36:27]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Well, we need to talk about the Afcon news that dropped on Tuesday night. So the 2025 Afcon title has been retrospectively awarded to Morocco. Senegal's victory has now been declared void. This decision came from 57 days after the final. To break this down, we've got Jay Harris in the studio who was at afcon, and I was too. Can you just take us back, mate? Because this is all taking me back to being in Morocco, seeing what was probably one of the most extraordinary finals. But here we are now. So just take us back to that final and tell us how we got to where we are right now.
- [37:03]
Jay Harris
Well, it basically means all our hard work from that final is irrelevant now. You know, for 90 minutes of that final, not a lot was going on. And then Senegal scored from a corner. It was disallowed loud. And then Morocco got up the other end. Elhaj Malik Juf appears to foul. Brahim Diaz. The referee doesn't award it initially. Brahim sort of starts moaning and complaining. The Morocco bench are up in arms. The referee takes a look at Var and he awards a penalty in stoppage time of the AFCON final. And it just sparked pure pandemonium in the stands. You know, Senegal fans were basically apoplectic with anger and frustration. And I saw at one stage riot police go in because everything was kicking off there. The Senegalese players, you know, walked off the pitch. Head coach Pap Chow was sort of the mastermind behind that. And it was just total chaos. You know, people have since said, oh, it was 16 or 17 minutes that play was paused for, but it felt so much longer. And there was just no clarity about what was going to happen. But the CAF Appeals board have since decided that Senegal have breached two of the competition's rules, articles 82 and 84. And we should point out that the appeal board is like an independent body. But you're trying to rewrite history. 57 days after it happened. The AFCON final was on January 18th. The day we record is March 18th. It's two months later and you're trying to say that that game actually, that didn't count. Morocco are the champions. Try tell anybody who is not of a Moroccan persuasion that Senegal are no longer the winners. And I think they're going to laugh at you. And in fact, that's what some of the Senegal players have done. So hopefully I've tried to sum that up as neatly and concisely as possible.
- [38:39]
Ayo Akinwaleere
It's good enough.
- [38:39]
Jay Harris
And before I forget, I should also point out that from Cass perspective, this is the second time in a month that there's some drama over premier competition because they postponed the Women's afcon.
- [38:47]
Ayo Akinwaleere
The Women's afcon until later in the year.
- [38:49]
Jay Harris
So your two big tournaments are just in a state of torment, which is an awful look.
- [38:53]
James Lawrence Olcott
I wonder the Moroccan fans, how did they feel about the news?
- [38:58]
Jay Harris
When I wrote the story, I had a few Moroccan fans reply d Mama Maghreb to my comments. So I think for them there will be a sense of justice. Because the end of the day, Senegal did walk off the pitch, but also they still had half an hour to win that game. They had a penalty to win that game. So it was still within their hands. They've now sacked their head coach. What I also dislike is that CAF reduced the punishments for Morocco's behaviour during that game. So the one that stands out is Ismael Sabari, who started the game. He comes off, he starts trying to nick Edouard Mendy, Senegal goalkeeper's towel. We all saw that with the ball boys. So Sabari had a, I think a three match ban and a couple games were suspended. It's now two match ban, one game suspended, $100,000 fine has been wiped away. The fine the Moroccan FA were given for the behavior of the ball boys has been reduced. So it really is letting Morocco get away with the role that they played in some of the, you know, ugly scenes from that final as well.
- [39:54]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Okay, well, let's. Let's leave it there. I'm sure more on this at some point later on in the week.
- [39:59]
Jay Harris
Put it this way, in the last hour the Senegalese government have started putting out statements.
- [40:02]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I saw Senegal had said something, but I wasn't quite. I didn't verify it.
- [40:06]
Jay Harris
No, no, no.
- [40:06]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I knew sen Senegal were going to appear.
- [40:08]
Jay Harris
The Senegalese government have basically said so. The Senegal FA have said we're going to take this to the Arbitration for Sport, but the Senegalese government have also got it. Yeah, so this is going to rumble on for a long, long time.
- [40:19]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Emergency pod at some point next week. Jay all right, gents, let's leave it there. Jay, appreciate your time. James, good to have you with us.
- [40:25]
James Lawrence Olcott
Pleasure.
- [40:26]
Ayo Akinwaleere
And Jack as well. Oh my God, the three Js. I just realized that. And thank you guys for joining us too. We'll catch you soon.
- [40:35]
James Lawrence Olcott
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [40:37]
Jeffrey
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal, with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson.
- [40:43]
Ayo Akinwaleere
The executive producer is Adie Moorhead.
- [40:45]
James Lawrence Olcott
To listen to other great athletic podcasts
- [40:47]
Jeffrey
for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic Wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at
- [40:53]
Jay Harris
the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe.
- [40:56]
James Lawrence Olcott
The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [41:13]
Pablo Torre
Hi, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds Out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill, it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan savings claim, based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobil.com Over
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Jeffrey
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