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- [00:00]
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- [01:22]
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- [01:34]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
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- [01:37]
Aura Representative
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- [02:33]
Athletic FC Host
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:38]
Colin Miller
On Sunday, Atletico Madrid made it 11 wins on the bounce. Alexander Solot, part of the near 200 million euro investment, got the job done against Getafe having drawn level at the top of La Liga. Next up, they head to table toppers Barcelona. So can Diego Simeone's new look Atleti sustain their challenge in for this one in Madrid, we have our La Liga correspondent Dermot Corrigan, as well as Colin Miller. Dermot, let's talk about Sunday's win over Getafi. 11 wins in a row for Atletico Madrid. But also, I mean that the stats are insane. 31 goals scored, 7 goals conceded, 6 clean sheets. Is this a new rejuvenated Atletico Madrid under the old dog Simeone?
- [03:33]
Athletic FC Host
Yeah, there's a lot of momentum building around Atletico at the minute. They're very happy with themselves. They keep winning games. They're playing three competitions, Copa del Rey, Champions League and La Liga. And there's been a lot of come from behind wins in those games as well. There's a lot of late substitutes coming on doing something special, which has built a lot of momentum for them. They haven't played the most difficult opponents in that run. A lot of the games in Liga have been against teams in the bottom half. They won at psg, which was big in the Champions League, but now they've got a huge game at Barcelona at the weekend, a chance to show Atletico there's always maybe some doubters, especially at Real Madrid and at Barcelona, that are they really up to it? Are they really going to challenge us this season And Saturday is when we should find that out.
- [04:09]
Colin Miller
Yeah, big one, Colin against Barcelona, joint top, but only behind Barca on goal difference. And they do have a game in hand on Hans Inflict side as well actually. And that's all despite what some might classes are less than convincing start to the season. How have they managed to get this momentum going and where was the turning point where this new look Atletico started to look relatively convincing.
- [04:34]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
This is actually really interesting because it's sort of early in the season as the end of October Athletico Madrid lost one nil at Real Bettis in the league. And that came a couple of days after a really disappointing Champions League home defeat against Lille. And there was a sort of sense that even at this early point in the season, their title challenge was over. Not just because of their own form, because they were, they were drawing a lot of games in the league and they were 10 points behind Barcelona. But the fact that obviously Hansi Flick side had looked unstoppable at that point in time. It looked like they were going to be setting 80, 80, 90, even 100 points potentially in lake and then you have Real Madrid as well, and we all know what they can do. But I think when you talk about Athletico Madrid and what they can do in a season, a lot of it depends on what those two other clubs can achieve. So if this sort of the league points tally to win the league is upwards of 90 points, you almost think, well, Athletic Madrid aren't going to get to those levels. And that actually played out in the previous two seasons when they won the league as well, whereby the other teams have to have off seasons. And for a while, it didn't look like that was going to happen. In recent weeks, of course, Barcelona have undergone a really, really difficult run of results, and Madrid have been dropping points, too, and that has coincided with this incredible run. But whenever Atletico lost at Betis, it was such a bad defeat. They had none of what it was. That makes Atletico Madrid, Atletico Madrid. They didn't have that sort of collective identity. There was no aggression, there was no structure or team cohesion. They could have lost that by three or four goals, and that probably would have been a fair reflection of the game. After that Betis game, as they always do every week, they have this sort of breakdown with their video team and they look at the game, they look at what's gone wrong. And that meeting the day after that game took one hour longer than usual. And what has been reported, essentially, is that Semi only sat down with the players and he's like, look, I'm going to point out everything that's gone wrong here, and if we don't fix all of these things, we are nothing. Not only are we not going to win anything, but we're not who we are. We're not the identity that we have had and we have built over all these years. And this has come off the back of a summer when they obviously invested a lot of money in the transfer market. There's been quite a bit of player turnover for Atletico Madrid standards, so there's quite high expectations. And this is almost a sort of cyclical annual thing for Atletico Madrid, whereby they always look to be that little bit more expansive and more aggressive, more attacking, maybe take a few more risks than they traditionally do. And that happens every year. And they try that for a couple of months and then they're like, well.
- [06:56]
Colin Miller
Let'S go back to the beginning.
- [06:57]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
It's actually much better if we just sort of revert back to type. And then all of a sudden they start getting results again. And that's kind of been this. So this season has almost been like a sort of an exacerbation of that particular point. But they've now seemed to have settled on a kind of 4, 4, 2 formation because it had 3 at the back, 5 at the back. They brought players like Javi Galan, Clement Lenglet are now playing Simeone's son, Juliano, who. Who we kind of thought was a bit more of an attacking player, sort of playing as a wide midfielder. Conor Gallagher is playing as a wide midfielder, although they're both kind of tucked in. And what that has done is that sort of brought back this identity back into the team that are playing with a lot more aggression, depending a lot more on the front foot. They're winning their tackles, they're winning the ball high up the pitch, and that's creating a lot of chances for the sort of high turnover of goals they've had as well. So as things stand at the minute, they're in a really good place, albeit having had a relatively straightforward run of fixtures by the standards of the season.
- [07:47]
Colin Miller
I'm just thinking about identity. Dharma. And regardless of the style of football, one thing you can always say about a Simeone team is there's a fight, right? You talk about late goals. That is very athletic. Let's keep going to the final whistle. But I wonder if a leopard's changed its spots. You know, I talked about the old dog at the top. Sorry about the animal analogies here, but like, the real talk is, you know, are we seeing a different type of Simeone at the moment in terms of the style of play? Dermot.
- [08:15]
Athletic FC Host
It's been a kind of a gradual thing with Simeone. As Colin said there, they always. They often make an attempt to. To modernize the squad or to play better football or to move on from the old dog or the dawn. Some more type of idea that you have from Simeone, because when Simeon took over Atletico, they used to play in the Calderon, which was a crumbling concrete ball at the center of Madrid city center. It was an old club. A lot of the players were journeyman players who had arrived at Atletico, and Simeone galvanized them into this amazing team. Guys like Godine and Gabby who got to two Champions League finals. And that. That's still kind of the. The idea or the essence of Atletico and of Simeone's reign. But it's, you know, it's a decade ago now. They've moved to a shiny new stadium across the city. It's much bigger, it's much more modern experience. You go to Atletico games. The whole club has been modernized over the last decade. And Simeone has had to adapt to that reality as well. The type of player that the club have signed, the type of budget that they're operating in, the objectives that the club have, like they, you know, they want it to win trophies, to be a top European super club. They're going to play in the club World cup next summer as well. You know, they've qualified for that. And that happened again last summer when they brought in, you know, spent 200 million on really high quality players like Julian Alvarez, won the World cup, won the Champions League at Man City, Conor Gallacher, Robin Lanta just won the euros with Spain. And they're trying to build a new, it's kind of trying to keep the old identity of Atletico and Simeone and battling for everything and fighting for everything, and also have like new players who are like world stars, who are technically great and have the, the lifestyles, maybe the egos that, that come with having the top stars and how you fit them into a Simeone dressing room. Last summer they got rid of some of the players who, who it turned out just weren't going to be good fits with Simeon. And Joe Felix is the most obvious of them. They tried everything to the club hierarchy, tried everything to try to get him to settle in, and it just didn't work with Simeone. Others like Morata, who, you know, scored goals for Atletico over the years, but was never the, an ideal fit with, with Simeone's style of play. And I was talking to somebody at the club just before the Sloven Bratislava game out at Atletico, pretty senior figure at the club who was saying that. Guys like Alvarez and Gallagher and Lenormand as well, but they're, they're more kind of Simeoni type personalities as well. They're technically good players, especially Alvarez, but they're also, you know, fighters. You know, seen Alvarez play for Argentina in the World cup and he's that kind of a battling type of character as well as having the quality that he has. So if they can mix those two things, if they have the, the soul of Atletico, of Simeone, that kind of dogs war idea, and then they have the technical quality that guys like Griezmann as well, then they should be winning trophies, they should be going for it. All these victories have come, as Colin said, since that game against Venice when you didn't see that soul of a daddy going the team. There wasn't that fight there and they, you know, maybe there's a few home troops afterwards and a few players have, have faded off the scene. They're not in the starting lineup anymore. Others have come in like Juliano, who's, you know, technically Simeone's son. He's 21. He's not seen as a future superstar. You know, he was at Alaves on loan last season and he did well, but he wasn't a first choice for a team who were battling against relegation. But he has that inherited DNA that he's got from his dad and he's got from growing up around Atletico, that he fights for everything. He battles for everything. And that's kind of contagious. Seen it in some games when the crowd even at the stadium, because it's a different crowd as well. Well, it's a different crowd at the minute because some of the ultras who true hubczechs had Thibaut Courtois and the derby back in September, are not allowed back into the stadium. But there's also just a new kind of more commercial atmosphere. But it has people like Giuliano to get the fans going, get his teammates going, and it's working pretty well at the minute.
- [11:46]
Colin Miller
Next, let's dig a little deeper into the summit spending with Atleti spending almost. Listen to this 200 million euros.
- [11:56]
Dermot Corrigan
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalere. This episode of the Totally Football show is brought to you by Shopify. When we're kids, we dream of being anything. A footballer, an astronaut, an international man of mystery. But as we get older, reality kicks in and dreams change. And we focus on how to take our skills and ideas and turn them into something tangible, like owning your own business. And for that, you'll need a website, a payment system, a logo, and a way to advertise to new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that's where Shopify comes in. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. When it comes to websites, Shopify's got beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style. And you can amplify that brand with Shopify's easy to run email and social media campaigns. Shopify's AI tools are created for commerce and can help you with tasks like generating discount codes, writing product descriptions and enhancing product images. And whenever you get stuck, Shopify's award winning 247 customer support is always there. So turn those dreams into sales and get the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com totally. That's shopify.com totally all in lowercase one last time. Shopify.com totally.
- [13:23]
Chase Representative
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- [13:51]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
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- [13:54]
Aura Representative
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- [14:51]
Colin Miller
Alvarez that is perfect.
- [14:57]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
Julian Alvarez picks his spot.
- [15:00]
Colin Miller
Derma. I mean, look, Atleti's summer investment was almost 200 million euros. I mean, players like Julian Alvarez. We've also got Colin Gallagher, we've got Robin Lee, Nomad, we've got Alexander Surlot and more. I mean, this is quite impressive, but also how important is it for all those signings to come together and work, considering we saw what happened with Joao Felix, for instance?
- [15:24]
Athletic FC Host
Yeah, it was a big gamble or a big step that the club decided to make last summer they had the big event at the, at the Metropolitano Stadium where, you know, Gallagher was greeted by these guys on, on Harley Davidsons who came onto the pitch again, given that kind of idea. Atletico had never done something like that before, but it was an idea of we're coming to a big stage, we're looking for new fans, we're looking for a new, a new kind of level of Atletico Madrid. And that, that is a risk, that is a gamble because, you know, if it, if it doesn't work out, Jeff Felix didn't work out. And it turned out to be a millstone around the clubs financial millstone around the club's neck for, for three or four years where they couldn't go out and sign somebody to replace him until they got rid of him. And in the end, Chelsea came in and helped them out a little bit in the summer, the way the deal was done with Gallagher as well. But it adds to extra pressure for the people around the club, pressure on Simeone as well, when the better results and when things weren't looking well for them started to be kind of rumors to start to come out about maybe, you know, even though he's under contract, maybe is he the right guy to bring Atletico into the, the next step? Maybe he's been there too long. All that kind of stuff comes up. And especially in the Spanish media where there's a lot of Real Madrid kind of leaning, editorial lines and some journalists as well, who may be Atletico fans suspect of, of being Real Madrid fans that came out and that Atletico weren't very happy with that. But they've used it as well to galvanize themselves within Atletico within the. The real fan base, within the dressing room as well. I don't think they like to see themselves as kind of pampered superstars. They prefer to see themselves as guys who were up against it, who were battling against the odds. And Alvarez fits with that. Gallagher as well. You know, he had a difficult time at Chelsea. You know, Chelsea pretty much wanted to get rid of him. We're forcing him out of the club. He had to wait during the summer to arrive at Atletico to get for the finances to kind of click into place, which Joe Felix ended up sorting that for them. But they are guys with something to prove. Alvarez at Man City wasn't in the team every week as well, you know, under Guardiola, but he wanted to come to Atletico pretty sure as well. He had other options that maybe would have paid him more money. PSG were interested in him as well. But there's a fit with, with Simeone, both Argent Argentines, with Depaul, who he knows as well from. From the national team. That feeling of Atletico, that of the top teams, maybe they're still the underdog, if you could, if you could put it that way. And in a three, three way title race, which we have in La Liga now, because Barcelona have hit the, you know, a real bad run of form Madrid have been struggling a little bit as well and Atletico, some argue, have the strongest squad in, in La Liga, maybe Barcelona. Madrid still have more really high quality individuals players and you know, Madrid added Mbappe in the summer. But Atletico have a stronger squad, which is shown by how many goals have been scored late in games and many goals have been scored by substitutes. And again, it's, it's building momentum. We still have to see what it's going to work out over the course of the season, but at the minute people are. Atletico are pretty happy with their situation.
- [18:11]
Colin Miller
Yeah, Colin, I'm just looking at these signings, right, and a lot of money has been spent. But look, you look at Alvarez, you look at Gallagher, you look at even sir lots to a certain degree. And I wonder how important the timing of these signings are, because you're looking at players who are clearly brilliant players, but at that point in their career where they're looking for a new challenge. And that time I always find really interesting when players move to teams. Do you think that has contributed to Alvarez, for instance, of how well they've done at Atletico since they've come, since over the summer?
- [18:42]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
This is always a thing of Atletico and Dermot kind of referenced it there a little bit as well. Their image is pretty much the club, right? That's what Semioni is, that's what he's, that's what he's built this team on, this club on. And they self style themselves as, as the underdog. Now, in a way that's sort of ridiculous because when you look at the amount of money they've spent, it is just so much higher than pretty much every other team in that league. And many of them just have any money to spend at all. And for somebody like Julian Alvarez, that was an extraordinarily high transfer fee for a player who has actually, when you look at what he's won, Premier League, Champions League, World cup, everything else that he's done already in his relatively short career, it's extraordinary. But his only real experience at Man City was as mainly as a substitute, it's fair to say, mainly as a bit of a foil to Erling Holland or a lot of the other creative players at City have. So for Athletico to bring him in for that amount of money, it showed that he really had to fit that profile that Simeone was looking for. And we talk about it with players like Lyn or Mand and Conor Gallagher. And Conor Gallagher has sort of been referred to in the Spanish press as like a. I think it's Like a pitbull type of player, which I don't really. Which I actually think is a bit. Is almost a bit unfair as to how good a player he actually is. But. But that's sort of what Atletico Madrid want their players to be seen as, right? It's all about the perception. And I think Julian spit this a little bit and I actually do agree with Dermot in the sense that. Do Athletico Madrid have the best squad in the league after the summer?
- [20:03]
Dermot Corrigan
I think.
- [20:04]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
I think there's a very strong argument that they do. Not in the sense that they've got the best players per se in terms of the overall squad, but when you look at that sort of 18 and 19 man match day squad that they have, they can rotate and bring players in and out and not have not just any drop off, not any real drop off in quality, but any real drop off in how they play. Whereas I think when you look at Barcelona and Madrid, if you took somebody like Lamina Mal or Pedri or even Robert Lewandowski out of that Barcelona team, it fundamentally changes the way they play to see much Madrid and they're attacking players, but when you look at Atletico, they can sort of chop and change. It doesn't make too much of a difference. Now, Alvarez himself, as we said about the money they spent on him, but this is somebody who brings a lot of energy to the attack. He also chips in with quite a few goals, but he also brings quite a lot of assists. This isn't a selfish play. This is a guy who, as we just said, it was kind of like a little bit of a foil for City, certainly at Argentina as well, for Lionel Messi, and you look at Antoine Griezmann, who is the star of Atletico Madrid's team, there's no doubt about it, he's actually been the best player in La Liga, I think for the last four or five years. Consistently he's been absolutely brilliant. And I think everyone realizes that he's a very good player, but I don't think anybody realizes just how good he is. Like he is absolutely brilliant. What he adds to that team is immense. But because he plays for Atletico Madrid and because he does it in a way that doesn't necessarily make him that superstar, we kind of underappreciate him. And I sort of think. Is that what we think of all the other players at Atletico as well? Even somebody like Robin the Normand, who suffered a terrible head injury in that Madrid derby against Real Madrid and he's only just come back? Thankfully, he seems to have recovered his health, but somebody like him who was so influential for Spain at the Euros, but a kind of player who you don't really necessarily equate with the success in itself, and you don't necessarily think he's somebody that's going to really elevate a team to winning that league. But he, he does help because he's got that little bit of an edge about him, but he just feeds into the background. It's like the every player that they identify is to f into the semi only model. That is absolutely crucial. And as Dermot said earlier as well, this is a club who've gone completely changed off the field. They're not an underdog anymore, they make a lot of money, they have a lot of money pumped into them, they've moved across the city. Everything about them materialistically has changed in the past decade, apart from that playing style. And how do you evolve that while still being successful? And that is what we have to always go back to with Athletico, because how do they bring those players in without losing what Simeone wants? And one thing about Alvarez is that there were question marks because when you look at the players that Atletico Madrid have signed, attacking players that they've signed, so many of them haven't worked out. Now Joao Felix is the big one. Even if you look at Alvaro Morata who left this summer, and Murata actually had quite a good career at that echo, but I don't think he particularly enjoyed playing in that system. The demand that that places on attackers is immense. In the past 10 years, the outlay and transfer fees, wages, agents fees on players like Jackson, Martinez, Matthias Kunya, Memphis, Depay, Thomas, Lamar Ludiciano, Vieto, Calvin Gamero, and that's going back quite a few years. But those are all players who came in for quite a big fee, quite a lot of expectations, who maybe just didn't quite fit Atletico's natural style of play. Especially the Joel Felix transfer with quite high it was the expectations around him as the sort of next superstar. And it's like actually, well maybe, maybe that type of player just doesn't fit Atletico at all. Whereas a player like Alvarez does. And we talk about the late goals, number of goals from substitutions, whether or not it probably isn't sustainable at that level, of course of a season, what it does show is that we look at Bayer Leverkusen last season for instance, in Germany, we all said that, but actually there was something about that style of play that also almost made it like self perpetuating, didn't it because teams. Teams know that that's common. Teams know. So they're going to drop off a little bit, they're going to get a bit nervy, athletic. And we're like, well, we've done this so many times before. Let's just keep doing it. Right. And it's a very simple way of sort of analyzing football, but I think it's true in instances like this, and Atletico Madrid have that mentality, and that's all dying to the players that are signed, that have come from the coaching and what is drilled into them. But it is a tough job. But I think Alvarez is certainly, so far, he's risen to the challenge, as have the other summer signings, by the way.
- [23:59]
Colin Miller
Yeah, very quickly, I'm going to come to you in a second about how they've afforded this. But, Colin, you know, I look at the old dog still left in that team, Correa, Jimenez, how important is it when you are adopting this new squad? Although, you know, as we pointed out, a lot of these players are more suited to Simeone and maybe the athletic style. How important is it that those old dogs are still there to carry the torch for Simeone to, you know, to. To basically implement that. Those ideologies and that style into this team. So it operates to the optimum in Simeone's mind.
- [24:33]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
I think that's absolutely crucial. And that's the case with any team. Right. You need that continuity. You need that those players who sort of set standards and training and who. Because that's what it is. It is standards and it's what, what you do off the ball, how you go about yourself as a footballer, all these things matter. And it is different at, at Madrid than it is at Barcelona. In Real Madrid, that is a fact that you can't. You cannot really act the same way on or off the pitch. You have to conduct yourself in a certain way, because this is a club who, as we keep talking about identity and everything else that goes with it, that is all part of it. And what Simeone does is he has tried to foster that he is the star, if that kind of makes sense. He's the guy that has. He has a big wage as well, but he's the guy who. Who makes sure the cameras are on him and the touchline. He doesn't mind that at all, because it takes the attention and the spotlight away from the players. He's like, right, I'm going to do that now. You do your job. And a lot of the players, like Angel Correa is Probably the best example of this, a player who signed pretty much, I think it was 10 years ago now, coming in from Argentina and has pretty much throughout his career being a substitute. And he has been such a great impact sub. And there's always been questions like, well, why doesn't he start more? But when he does start, he just doesn't have the same impact. And that's almost one of the things. It's just he kind of sums it up, that sort of selflessness, like, well, I'm prepared to sit on the bench for 70 minutes every week. I don't mind that because I'm going to come on, I'm going to do my job. So it's up to you to do your job on the pitch as well. And I think that there's a lot of leaders in that dressing room and that embodies what Simeoni wants and that, again, we keep going back to recruitment, but that's exactly what they need to do. But you can't just have that massive overhaul of players without those guys there making sure it all takes ticks off together, too.
- [26:06]
Colin Miller
Yeah, nice one, Dermot. This is it. Big money spent. You talked about investment earlier, but how have they managed to afford it all? Because, you know, La Liga also got their financial restrictions and how much you can spend, and you've also got your way for overlooking a lot of this as well.
- [26:22]
Athletic FC Host
Yeah, the La Liga salary cap is always comes into it, especially, you know, talking about Barcelona and the problems that they've had. Italico have have run close to the limit at different times, but they made a big effort last season to get rid of some of the players who were pushing them over the limit. Xiao Felix, the huge investment that they made on him, they needed to get him off the wage. Bill Morata as well as Colin, said he had his ins and outs in the team. He scored some goals for them, but they wanted to use the salary that they had for him in a different way. So he ended up being allowed to leave for Milan for a knockdown transfer fee. Really, for a guy who had just captained Spain to to the European Championships. Sal Niguez, another guy who was on a big salary, you know, came onto the scene about 10 years ago, looked like he's going to be a brilliant midfielder for Atletico, but it just hasn't worked out for him. With Simeone, he was sent on loan to to Sevilla and a couple of other players removed that as well. Meanwhile, Atletico have been growing the revenues. The move to the new stadium has pushed them into a different League, you know, they're not up there with Barcelona Madrid, but they're gone way ahead of Sevilla, Valencia, other clubs who win, who used to be seen as their peers in La Liga, like Atletica, would have battled with Sevilla for a signing or, or with Valencia. Whereas now Atletico are well ahead of them. They've got a lot of investment off the pitch in recent seasons as well. Aris Fund Management, Big American, a venture capital fund or a big shelter or an Atletico Eden Ofer, who, not a very well known name, but one of the richest men in the world. A British Israeli shipping magnate. He's a shareholder at Atletico as well. These guys are not involved in the day to day running of Atletico. It's still. Miguel Hill Marine is the CEO. You know, his dad used to be the president of the club. You know, colorful character. Maybe a couple of decades ago, worth a whole podcast on himself. Maybe one day Hazel's Hill. But, but the, the old guys are still in charge of the club with Enrique Sereso as well, the club president. But they have this money coming in from elsewhere and last summer there was a share offering which raised almost 100 million euros, which basically went into raising the salary limit at the club so that we'll be able to, to spend the money on these players. If you go to Atletico now, around the stadium, there's a huge area that they're developing. They're building a new training ground beside the stadium they're also building, and I wasn't aware of it until I went just to have a look the other day. Europe's biggest urban surfing park is going to be beside the Metropolitano stadium. So you'd be able to, you know, if anybody's coming over from, from the UK or from wherever you, you can go to an Atletico game and then you can go surfing. The surf park. Right beside it is the plan for the future. So it'll be a shopping center, hotels, leisure facilities, all that kind of stuff, which is, is kind of part of being a European super club these days. Or, you know, Tottenham Stadium. They've done, they've got the go kart.
- [29:06]
Colin Miller
Track, haven't they, underneath the. Yeah, it's good. I've been there. It's really good.
- [29:09]
Athletic FC Host
It so identical. That's what they want to be. That's the type of club that they want to be. You know, there's talk that the club eventually will be sold, that the Hill, Marine and Cereso, who, you know, have been there for decades and decades, will eventually move on and maybe, you know, maybe the American investors or somebody else will take over the club full time. That seems to be still, you know, a couple of years away, at least until they, they get the plans done around the training ground, around this commercial ledger center that they're building beside the stadium. But that's, you know, that's where the money is coming from. It's not, you know, Atletico before used to always be scrimping and saving and trying to get players, you know, deals with agents and all the kind of Atletico transfers that we were used to maybe 10 years ago. But it's changed now. They're, they're a different club.
- [29:52]
Colin Miller
Yeah. Fantastic. Well, next we'll ask how sustainable Atleti's challenge could be this season.
- [30:07]
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- [31:03]
Dermot Corrigan
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akumalara.
- [31:09]
Colin Miller
Colin. I'm so interested in where they are in the league at the moment. You know, same points as Barcelona in top spot, but through goal difference, Athletic is second. I'm just wondering how much of an opportunity this season presents for Athletic to possibly win the title. Obviously Barcelona Underhanti flick for the first season. I've just heard that Lamina Mal's injured for a sustainable period of time. You know, Real Madrid still looking to find that balance with Mbappe up front. This could be an interesting one for athlete if they, if they manage to use those subs right and they manage to just get it over the line each match. It doesn't have to be a pretty. Just win those matches. That's all we need.
- [31:49]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
Yeah, and that's obviously the formula that they've been on for the past two months. It is a strange one, as we said earlier that Athletico Madrid need Barcelona to be Flawed and they need Real Madrid to be flawed as well. That is happening. And I think that the points total this year won't be extraordinarily high. It'll probably be somewhere in the sort of low to mid 80s. Now that's something that probably suits Athletico Madrid. As we said earlier, that if it's going to go 90 points plus, that might be just too much of an ask for them over the course of the season. But I think the way things are panning out, they're certainly in the titan race because we've got a large enough sample size now to look at this and be like, well, Barcelona had that flying start, right? And we kind of thought, are they just going to run away with a league? We were talking about Barcelona previously in the season when Hansi Flick comes in really high line, incredible number of all sides going, going against the other teams and sort of like nobody could crack the code. And whenever they got the first goal, they went on and scored four or five. And you sort of thought, this is, this is unbelievable the way they were doing it with their sort of academy graduates and everything else. But as things always tend to happen, teams tend to work the might in terms of how then you combat that, that style of play that certainly happened over the past month for Barcelona and Real Madrid are certainly trying to find their own way as well. So they both have these huge question marks, whereas Athletic Madrid have almost already answered the questions they've had from that early in the season when they weren't sure what formation to play, they weren't sure what combination of the new signings to play and how to play them and what way they should play. They seem to have already answered all those questions. So from that point of view, Atletico Madrid right now are the club who actually look the most stable in terms of what they, what they want and what they're trying to do. When you look at their number of late goals and 12 of them have gone in in the last minute already this season, that's. That must. I haven't looked for that must be hard in any other team and in Europe's top leagues. And by Quite a way, 22 of their 47 goals have come in the last 15 minutes. This is extraordinary. The points of so many things. I mean, obviously it points to fitness, it points to self belief, it points to point obviously, as Derma has said and has written about as well, the substitutions are getting them right and having those players to come in and the fact that the squad strong, but all that points to the Fact that whilst you might not be able to do it in that quantity over the course of a season, this is a team who knows how to win matches. So whilst we might think, look, they're going to need to continue improving, they are going to continue improving. You can't rely on the eight goals every single week over the course of a season. However, what that does show is that there's a lot of things going on that they're doing right at the minute and I think they're right in this title race. And obviously they've got the Champions League as well. The last minute winner away to psg when they were actually outplayed for most of that match and last minute win against RB Leipzig. But now they're starting to beat teams who are maybe a level or two down, but they're not just beating them, but they're scoring four or five goals, six goals against them. So that just shows that they've got a total belief in what they're trying to do at the minute, whereas their title rivals don't. So I think when you've got that in mind and you've got to this point in the season, they're in a really strong place. They're going to have setbacks and it's going to be how they react and how they respond to it. But I think Semioni has his team in place now, has his squad of players, has total buy in, has total self belief once again. And we know that when Simeone has those elements to his team, they're going to be very hard to stop in terms of the league title challenge.
- [34:56]
Colin Miller
Yeah, for sure. You only have to look at what Leverkusen did last season for last minute goals to see how that kind of galvanized them through the entire season to lift the first Bundesliga ever. But I just want to keep on this conversation around Atletico Madrid potentially winning La Liga this season. You know, it was twice seen Simeone pull off all but impossible in beating both Real Madrid and Barcelona to the La Liga title. Potentially looking a hat trick of titles at this moment in time. But I'm also thinking about the word. Colin, you to stability. Barcelona are going through some mad stuff still. I mean, Paul Belusa has dropped a story around Dali Elmo, a player who they fought to get after the Euros, not potentially being able to be registered and potentially even leaving in January. I mean, you know, it could be a battle of the stable clubs to see who takes La Liga this season.
- [35:48]
Athletic FC Host
It's always a drama around Barca or it has been, especially in transfers in recent seasons. And this is. They're outdoing themselves even with this one. Last summer, Barca knew that they didn't have very much money to go and sign players, but they also knew they wanted to go and sign some of the Spain players who did so well in the Euros. So they had a look at Nico Williams. For a while that was impossible from Atli, and then they decided to go for Dani Olmo for 60 million from Leipzig. He was available. He wanted to come back. He's up from the area, was at Barca La Masia as a kid before he went off to Croatia and then to Germany. And it all made sense. But they didn't have the money to be able to sign within the La Liga salary cap. They found a way around it. When Christiansen, the Danish defender, got injured, they were able to use one of La Liga's rules to use some of Christensen's salary to pay almost salary within the salary cap. But that was only up until 31 December. Christensen is now fit again.
- [36:38]
Colin Miller
He's.
- [36:39]
Athletic FC Host
He's on his way back. But from a leaguer's point of view, anyway, they need to sort out the almost situation before the 31st of December. They need to find more money from somewhere so they can raise their salary limit for the season so they can fit almost salary in there as well. They thought they might be able to do that with the new kit deal with Nike that they signed. They did sign a new kid deal with Nike, but not enough new money came into that for this season to be able to pay almost salary. They've looked at other ways around it as well, including trying to do a very Laporte. Another one of Laporta's levers, which would be to take some of the the season ticket money from the future, maybe from the VIP areas within the new camp now when that opens up and try to lever that into this year's accounts. Not sure La Liga are going to let them away with that one. So they're stuck in a situation at the minute where they need to find some money to have that Barca Studios lever that we've talked about before, that failed investment that they had in this new idea for a media arm of the club, which was supposed to be a money spinner for them, but the investors in that have just not come through. So maybe they could find new investors in that which would again can raise the salary limit. But it's difficult to see how they will do it. You know, as Paul has reported this morning, if they can't find a way around it then almost is potentially, you know, free to sign for a new club around Europe from January 1st, which would be pretty amazing. The feeling is that with Barca that they always find some way of getting around it. Laporta is expert at coming up with last minute solutions which almost often kick the can down the road. You know, solves the problem in the short term but. But caused an even bigger problem in the long term. Olmo himself pretty sure wants to save Barcelona. He was away for a long time. He came back just after six months to go somewhere else. Seems unlikely but at some stage if you're in around Barcelona they can't just keep kicking the can down the road all the time. That these short term solutions that eventually a problem too big to solve to improvise your way out of it is going to arrive. So 17th of December as I was sitting here talking to you now, that gives them two weeks to come up with a plan. It's going to be an interesting Christmas again for Barcelona and for Almond, for Laporta and everybody around it. But it is a good comparison maybe with Atletico who are. Atletico used to be the team who were always finding solutions at the last minute. Maybe doing deals which looked a bit unusual in order to sign players calling in favors. All that kind of stuff was kind of what you associated with with Atletico going back over the years. You know, there's still still the same guys in charge of the club. So it's not a complete change. But now it's Barcelona who are the ones who are with that kind of drama or even kind of soap opera end of it that we're always wondering what they're going to. What they're going to do next in order to. To do something in the transfer window. Sets it up nicely for for Saturday's game. Not sure almost probably going to play in the game. Remember it. It's kind of funny. About 12 months ago Atletico went to Barcelona. They'd won eight of their last nine games in La Liga. They were ahead of Barcelona in the table at that stage. Barca had Joe Felix on loan who they levered into the team that the previous summer from Atletico. He scored the winning goal in the game. It was Joe Felix's best moment for Barca. Maybe only big signature moment that he had in a season on loan. And it was almost a catalyst for Barca Javi's Barca at the time to go on and win La Liga. Atletico faded away. Their title challenge, you know, was kind of ended in. In December last season. So again, it just sets up Saturday's game really, really well and everybody's looking forward to it as. As the final Barca and Atletico game before the winter break.
- [39:56]
Colin Miller
Yeah, for sure. You know, as fans they always said don't fall in love with a loan signing at Barcelona. Just don't fall in love with any signing. You never know if they're going to last the test of time. But you know, on that, Colin, you know, this does set up the game against Barcelona way for Atletico Madrid quite well before Christmas. Who's going to take that top spot? Really interesting. And also the permutations. No La Milliamal Atletic must be sniffing an opportunity, surely.
- [40:23]
JPMorgan Chase Representative
Yeah, and I think sort of alluded to there, but this is the fixture that has always tripped up at EO Madrid and sort of seasons gone by even when they've gone into it in good form. And we talked about them always seeing themselves as the underdog and I kind of think in situations like this is this one, is this one, it holds them back because they're maybe thinking this is Barcelona we're playing against and you know, we're just little Athletico Madrid, you know. You know, of course it'd be nice if we sort of could go there and get a great result. But that, you know, a draw would be good. Right. That would be a good result for us. Right. And that sort of plays into the players minds maybe a little bit. But I do think when you've got the min alloy and we're going off the back of a weekend when neg have just gone and secured a pretty stunning victory away to Barcelona, coming off last Palmas, going to Barcelona and winning as well and then dropping the points against Betis and against and against other teams about south of ego. So Barcelona, well, look at this fixture, I think as the best fixture for them at this point in time because they're at home, they're against an opponent who if they do be, it sort of shows, right, we're back, we're back. We're still top but we're back. Right. Whereas Atlantico Madrid almost have more to lose. It sort of sounds silly in that sense, but I letting would you go here and win? And it would be a brilliant moment for them. But if they don't win, the same questions will keep coming up. Was this the moment and was this the moment that we've. That we've almost let by because we could have gone out in front at this point in the season. Now we have the two week break to sort of look back and reflect on everything. But I think that they need athletic. British have truly evolved and we keep talking about they try to do that. This is going to be the best test of the entire season so far. But having said that, we talked about the Champions League. They went to psg, didn't put in a good performance at all, but won it in the last minute. Are they going to be able to do that again against Barcelona? Against a team who they're pretty much comparing themselves along with Real Madrid against all the time, but who do you think? But we're. We're the third of those teams. Right. So, you know, a draw is not a bad result. And whenever you start to go into games like that, maybe it's not the best way to approach it. And that has been the case in recent years. I think that Atletico Madrid should be looking at this game as one that they could and should be looking to win. In the circumstances of Barcelona's form, of the players they've got unavailable, of the general mood around that club. The atmosphere in Montjuic at the minute is not good. It's not good for a number of reasons. Not just the result on the pitch, but what's going on off it. Sort of moves against fans and just the general dissatisfaction of why the club aren't back at camp. No. Just yet and everything else that's going on. So Athletico Madrid have a real moment here. Can they seize it? And that is going to be, I think, the true question of their evolution. And if they can, I think you might have to start talking about them not just as being title contenders, but as being title favorites. That's just the way it is. If they can win games like this, that is the true test of Atletico Madrid. And Diego Simeone, is he where he is now? Is that actually higher than where he has been before? And that will be the test and that'll be because I. I do think Barcelona probably will win. And just. Just on the basis of that, I'm not. I'm still not convinced. But that. That. That can be the chance to. The answer. Doters like me. Right.
- [43:21]
Colin Miller
Yeah. They're coming for you, man. I can see Simeone seething at your comment right now and getting the result away at Barcelona. Gents, really appreciate your time. Colin. Dermot as well. And also Dermot will be dropping a piece on Atletico Madrid later this week, so make sure you keep an eye out. Thank you so much for listening. We're back tomorrow.
- [43:40]
Dermot Corrigan
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [44:01]
Salesperson
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- [44:09]
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Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, I go, sorry, I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know Daddy has issues.
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Aura Representative
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JPMorgan Chase Representative
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Athletic FC Host
How are we here already?
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JPMorgan Chase Representative
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