The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode Title: Is Tuchel improving England?
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Ayob Akimoleri
Guests: Jack Pitt-Brooke (England reporter), David Ornstein

Episode Overview

This episode examines Thomas Tuchel’s impact after one year as England manager, assessing the team’s performances, style evolution, key management differences from Gareth Southgate, and what lies ahead in the run-up to the 2026 World Cup. The hosts also debate England’s optimal starting XI and discuss Tuchel’s uncompromising media style and selection philosophies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tuchel’s First Year: Results & Mood Shift

• Solid Results, Some Doubts Cleared:

  • England have won all qualifiers under Tuchel, with the only notable loss a friendly vs. Senegal.
  • The recent 5–0 win in Serbia was described as “England's best performance in years,” shifting public and media doubts about Tuchel’s tactical direction. (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 02:02)
  • "That performance in Belgrade was so good that I think now people are thinking we're on the right track." (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 02:40)

• High Expectations, Judgment Reserved:

  • The appointment was met with excitement and seen as top-tier: “It was almost looking like Guardiola at one point…groundswell of opinion among England fans…great deal of excitement and intrigue.” (David Ornstein, 03:06)
  • However, the real test remains: “All the judgment on Tuchel is reserved…Is he going to deliver out in the USA, Canada, and Mexico in a way he's delivered in Champions League, in domestic titles?” (David Ornstein, 05:02)
  • England's squad is recognized as deeper and more talented than in years past, increasing expectations.

2. Style vs. Substance: Does the Way England Play Matter?

• Importance of Exciting Football:

  • “People got frustrated...because of Gareth Southgate. England’s record was very good. And people complained about the football because they thought it was boring. So clearly the style does matter to people.” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 08:20)
  • Tuchel has set explicit expectations for a faster, higher-tempo game, reminiscent of Premier League intensity.

• Could Style Be Compromised for Results?

  • “If England win the tournament… the style won’t matter… Anything less, the style will matter a lot more.” (David Ornstein, 09:47)
  • England are expected to play with creativity and swagger, especially in group stages given the squad’s quality.

• World Cup Context Looms Large:

  • Both guests stress that whatever the current progress, fans and media will only “truly judge” Tuchel on the World Cup (and in the challenging conditions of North America in 2026).

3. Tuchel vs. Southgate: Management Style & Media Approach

• Communication Differences:

  • “Southgate…responsibility weighed so heavily…would be so careful with everything…take everyone’s views into account...very careful, very thoughtful with what he said.” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 15:54)
  • “Tuchel is so direct…candid and can be very blunt.” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 16:39)

• The Bellingham Incident:

  • Tuchel’s comment that Jude Bellingham’s on-field behavior could be perceived as “repulsive” (a term he later apologized for) exemplified his bluntness: “He has said that he did not mean to use that word…he’s not afraid at all about speaking in blunt terms about individuals in a way Southgate was reluctant…” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 16:41)

• Risk vs. Refreshing Honesty:

  • Ornstein: “It’s a theater of jeopardy...the England manager’s job, the press conference, the interviews, is scrutinized like nowhere else…Tuchel is a departure from Southgate…quite a breath of fresh air…he answers questions, he provides us all with headlines and talking points.” (David Ornstein, 18:01; 19:21)

• Implications for Squad Dynamics:

  • Tuchel is described as “ruthless in decision making” and unapologetic about unpopular calls, reinforcing a merit-based selection ethos.

4. Picking England’s World Cup 2026 XI

Defensive Core

• Jack Pitt-Brooke’s XI (23:48):

  • GK: Jordan Pickford ("Really easy, obvious one")

  • RB: Rhys James ("Probably the best there. If he's fit, Tuchel will want a conventional RB.")

  • CBs: John Stones and Marc Guéhi (or Konsa possible). “Stones is irreplaceable for possession and experience.”

  • LB: Jed Spence ("I think he's been really impressive over this calendar year.")

  • Alternates: Livramento (if fit), Lewis Skelly (especially for future potential).

Midfield & Attack

• Double Pivot: Declan Rice plus one

  • Jack suggests Elliott Anderson “for solidity,” but Adam Wharton is “unbelievably good”—technical, but Anderson is “a bit more physical.”
  • “I would certainly still take Wharton. I think he’s better than almost everyone else England have got in that position.” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 25:22)

• Attacking Four

  • RW: Bukayo Saka (“Best in that position, hope he stays fit.”)
  • CF: Harry Kane (“Those people are always wrong” who want him dropped.)
  • CAM: Jude Bellingham (“Still has the biggest upside, match winner.”)
  • LW: Marcus Rashford (“Rashford was finished at international level…One of the best things Tuchel’s done is bring him back.”)

• Alternates & Debates

  • Morgan Rogers, Cole Palmer, Anthony Gordon all rate a mention.
  • Palmer, in particular, must “work his way in” and not be parachuted on club form alone.

• David Ornstein’s Take

  • Prefers Tino Livramento at LB, if fit, citing technical and tactical strength. (28:42)
  • Emphasizes the value of international experience for new selections.
  • “It’s...unrealistic, maybe inconceivable, that such a strong team...is going to bring somebody like [Tyrick Mitchell] in cold.” (David Ornstein, 28:42)

• On Meritocracy:

  • “Everything Tuchel is talking about would be undermined if he were to just pick up Cole Palmer because he's been playing so well in club football and put him straight into the team. That's not how Tuchel wants to build his England team.” (Jack Pitt-Brooke, 30:22)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the importance of World Cup results:

  • "All of the judgment on Tuchel is reserved, to be honest. Is he going to deliver out in the USA, Canada and Mexico in a way that he’s delivered in Champions League, in domestic titles?" — David Ornstein [05:02]

• On Tuchel’s honesty compared to Southgate:

  • “Southgate…would be at pains to see both sides of every point...Tuchel is so direct. He is unbelievably candid and can be very blunt.” — Jack Pitt-Brooke [15:54–16:39]

• On the Bellingham controversy:

  • “His comments about Bellingham, where he said that Bellingham's behaviour could be perceived as repulsive, a word he's apologised for.… He is not afraid at all about speaking in blunt terms about specific individuals in a way which I think Southgate often was reluctant.” — Jack Pitt-Brooke [16:41]

• On Rashford's recall:

  • “I thought Rashford was finished at international level before Tuchel took over.… The players who bring the best out of Harry Kane over the years were Sterling and Rashford. You need pace alongside him...has to be Rashford or Gordon on the left.” — Jack Pitt-Brooke [27:22]

• On squad choices:

  • “Kane should start up front for England. Bukayo Saka on the right. If he can stay fit, I would definitely have him in without a second thought.” — Jack Pitt-Brooke [26:22]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Tuchel's record and recent mood shift — [02:02–02:52]
• Why Tuchel was hired and the expectations on him — [03:06–06:53]
• Discussion of style vs. winning at all costs — [08:20–09:47]
• Comparison: Tuchel vs. Southgate’s media style — [15:54–18:01]
• The Bellingham comments and subsequent apology — [16:41–19:23]
• Best England XI debate starts — [23:42]
• Detailed selections and positional debates — [25:01–31:24]

Tone and Language

The episode mixes measured, knowledgeable analysis with the lively, candid tone characteristic of top-level sports discussion. Jack Pitt-Brooke provides detailed, tactical explanations and player assessments, often referencing recent reporting, while David Ornstein contextualizes decisions within FA ambitions and public sentiment. The conversation is direct, occasionally humorous, and determinedly unsparing—especially when addressing fan expectations and historical context.

Summary

The podcast provides a comprehensive, honest assessment of Thomas Tuchel’s management of England—celebrating progress without ignoring unresolved questions about tournament performance, tactical philosophy, and squad unity. Listeners are left with a nuanced view: England appear improved and more exciting, but the ultimate judgment awaits the unique pressures and unpredictabilities of the 2026 World Cup.