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- [00:00]
Marc Maron
When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show, and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to do's got bigger and bigger and when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household name like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today. @shopify.com theathletic Go to shopify.com theathletic shopify.com TheAthletic.
- [01:33]
Unknown
Moms deserve our very best. Especially on Mother's Day. There's only one place I trust to deliver high quality mom Approved rose bouquets. 1-800-flowers.com this year, 1-800-Flowers wants to make sure all the mothers in your life get the best with double the roses for free. When you buy one dozen, they'll double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim the double roses offer, go to 1-800-flowers.com acast. That's 1-800-flowers. Com acast. The official florist of Mother's Day.
- [02:05]
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [02:13]
Marc Maron
Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande.
- [02:26]
Ayo Akimolere
She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper.
- [02:32]
Guillermo Ray
I go, I still Love you.
- [02:34]
Ayo Akimolere
You know Daddy has issues.
- [02:35]
Unknown
Are you afraid of it?
- [02:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Of death? Death? Well, I don't. I think about it all the time.
- [02:39]
Unknown
How are we here already?
- [02:40]
Marc Maron
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF.
- [02:56]
Unknown
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [03:02]
Guillermo Ray
Acast.com.
- [03:07]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC Podcast Network welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. After their Champions League exit, Carlo Ancelotti is expected to leave Real Madrid this summer. Summer. So when will it actually happen? And is Xabi Alonso the inevitable replacement? With us today we have the Athletics, Real Madrid writer Guillermo Ray and also Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero as well. Now, we spoke last week on the podcast about what the future holds for Ancelotti after the defeat to Arsenal in the Champions League. So let's hear from our football correspondent. David Ornstein has the latest on the situation.
- [03:57]
David Ornstein
Well, it's pretty much decision time now for Real Madrid and Carlo Ancelotti, if indeed decisions have not already been made. We reported on the Athletic a few days ago, our understanding that Ancelotti is expected to leave Real Madrid. The exact timings are unclear because Real Madrid are still competing for the La Liga title for the Copa del Rey, even though they've been knocked out of the Champions League at the hands of Arsenal in the quarterfinal stage, the sort of defeat that has cost many predecessors their job in the Spanish capital. However, Ancelotti is extremely popular, well respected owing to his remarkable success and also long storied and historic career. The president of the Brazilian Confederation has talked about this being a dream and it may now come to fruition if and when Ancelotti departs. The anticipation is that Xabi Alonso will will come in to Real Madrid from Bayer Leverkusum. None of the parties involved have spoken on this, so we don't have any official word. And that means it's always open to change and nothing is concrete just yet, but certainly that's the direction of travel, from speaking to a number of contacts who are well placed in and around the situation. And I think Carlo Ancelotti is going to leave this in the hands of Real Madrid to decide what they want to do. He's always professed his love for the club and so really it is their decision.
- [05:24]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, that's a great story from David Ornstein as well as our colleague Mario Cortegana on the Athletic that Ancelotti is expected to leave the club. More on Alonso a little later on Guillermo. I'm just wondering about the timing of this because the season's not over. Real Madrid still have a chance to win La Liga and also Copa del Rey final, which is imminent against their arch rivals Barcelona. I mean, how the club deal with this is really important. And the timing of whether or not he stays or goes is also very important as well.
- [05:54]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, it's not the best timing, to be honest. That's why there are voices from the world who are now trying to counter attack these, these reports. They are trying to play down because there is this final, this major challenge against Barcelona and they want to be focused on that. But the truth is that a lot of things have happened since the Arsenal defeat. And if, if there is a big defeat against Barcelona, more things could happen sooner than later. And Ancelotti knows that he's in a tough spot, is obviously up to the board, as is always. It's always the same case when we talk about Real Madrid coach is Florentino's, but for now he stays because it's not the right timing. In just three, four days, they will know if they are copal re champions. And you cannot replace your coach with something so important, so close.
- [07:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Right? Well, when asked a press conference on Tuesday if he was feeling the pressure, Ancelotti said the club is aware that it has been a more complicated year than last year. Together we manage the difficulties. The honeymoon continues. I'm very happy, very happy with a lot of pressure, but that's how it always is. You see success very close, and it's normal for stress to increase. But stress, listen to this. Is fuel for me. It doesn't bother me. It gives me more energy to think about more things. As long as I continue to get up in the morning, everything is fine. Thomas, I mean, does he need any more connections to the phrase Don Carlo with that call? Fullness, stress is fuel for me. But also, I do wonder, and we were just talking about this before the podcast, how many more kind of coaches in the global game right now can wear that stress of managing Real Madrid where the pressure is so big every season, more than Ancelotti.
- [07:59]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah, the pressure is huge. And as you said, I think it's something we've talked about on previous podcasts, that Ancelotti just seems the perfect manager for that kind of environment. He really is as. As cool as a cucumber. You know, he. He enjoys that stress. As he says, this season has been different to. To the last one, though. Because as much as Ancelotti managed to kind of paper over the cracks last season, in many ways, I often don't think he gets enough credit for how he dealt with losing three key pieces of his defense, including the. The goalkeeper Thibaut Courtoire to ACL injuries. And yet still recovering to win La Liga and the Champions League this year has. Has definitely been more difficult. I think losing Tony Kroos plays a big part in that. Losing defender Nacho Fernandez as well, that's, that's difficult to deal with, particularly if you don't. Don't replace him. And as much as having a great superstar forward as Mbappe in your front line helps. And you know, Guillermo has written about how they kind of expected, the coaching staff expected to score more, more goals and concede more. You know, the reality is they've scored about the same number of goals and conceded more, and, and in a situation like that, it's clear you're going to struggle. I think Ancelotti deals with the pressure world, but I do think there are signs this season that that pressure has amped up and, and, you know, has become untenable at times.
- [09:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Guillermo, this is a coach that's won more trophies than any other manager in the club's history. I'm just wondering where he, where he ranks in terms of his global stock right now, because as I've just said to Thomas, it's not many people that can wear the stress of Real Madrid on their shoulders like Ancelotti. And if he were to be replaced, I mean, you need someone who is ready to take that on.
- [09:38]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, definitely. I mean, Ancelotti came from Everton probably. He wasn't the top, the top level of, of his career. And when he joined Real Madrid, they were, I think, part of the Real Madrid fan base who criticized the move because of that. And now I, I don't think that anyone is saying Ancelotti is not the right man for any, any role. Now he's like, after these four years, this year's two Champions League titles and so on, he has all the credit and he can be anywhere. And from what I know he's thinking on the next steps of his career, he's, he's open to, to, to be the coach of our national team. We have reported David and Mario about Brazil, but I think he has plenty of options, obviously because of what he has done in the past four years. And yeah, I think that now any substitute will have to deal with this shadow. It will be hard for Xavier Alonso or whoever comes next because is what it is, the titles are there and you can always have your, your team playing really, really well. In terms of style, who probably is the worst thing that he has been criticized lately about Carlo. But in terms of titles, really difficult to overcome. A man who has won two Champions League titles in just four years.
- [11:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, yeah. Thomas, if Brazil is the next destination, I mean I'm wondering why it would appeal to Ancelotti. But then you look at the team's Ancelotti's coach. Juventus, AC Milan, Chelsea, psg, Real Madrid twice Bayern Munich, Napoli. I mean these are some of the big juggernauts in European football. You just had a little flirt with Everton as well, which I'm sure the Everton love. But this is a coach that's amassed maybe what, 20 odd trophies in his, in his career, won five European titles. I mean this is one of the most coveted managers in the world. Surely Don Carlo just wants to put his feet up. Bit of cockpit, Cabana beach, be out there with the Brazilian guys and he's already got a few of those players on his team already.
- [11:47]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah, it does feel like it's a step that would be impressive on a CV point of view. As you say, it kind of feels like a national team to, to rival those, those clubs that you mentioned there. I do also think it would be going into another pressure cooker environment. I mean Brazil, one of the most demanding jobs in the game. We know from a lot of writing by our colleague Jack Lang that they're at a low ebb at the moment, losing 41 to Argentina in the last international break, sacking their coach D'Orval Jr. After that. I think Ancelotti will be the first foreign ball manager of Brazil since 1965. So that I'm sure would add pressure. But as you say, and as, as Mario's reported, he's got good links with those Brazilian players at Madrid. Vinicius, Rodrigo Militao Endrick to an extent that's probably the big draw of leading them at the 2026 World Cup. And I mean what a way that would be to, to go out as a coach if he was able to lead them to the final and a record extending sixth title in the, in the U.S. obviously there's a, there's a long way to go until, until that happens. But even so I can see the appeal from, from Ancelotti's point of view, although I don't think it's, you know, quite the kind of putting your feet up job that he might have, he might have envisaged you're listening to the.
- [12:59]
Guillermo Ray
Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamolere.
- [13:04]
Unknown
Today's episode is brought to you by Shopify, who know very well that when you're starting something new, it seems like that to do list can just keep on growing. When we started this very podcast, we had to figure out all on our own how to get the show on the air, how to set topics, do the research, find sponsors, learn how to grow the audience. And that was all without even launching an online store or selling any merchandise. So finding the right tool to help simplify that to do list and streamline things and get things done can be a game changer for millions of businesses. That game changing tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce in the United States. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. It is packed with helpful AI tools to help with content creation that is going to help you write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you, even if you don't. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.comTSS go to shopify.comTSS one more time. Shopify.comTSS.
- [14:43]
Moms deserve our very best. Especially on Mother's Day. There's only one place I trust to deliver high quality mom approved rose bouquets. 1-800-flowers.com this year 1-800-flowers wants to make sure all the mothers in your life get the best with double the roses for free. When you buy one dozen, they'll double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim the double roses offer go to 1-800-flowers.com acast. That's 1-800-flowers.Com acast the official florist of Mother's Day.
- [15:13]
Is it a stay in or a.
- [15:15]
Marc Maron
Go out kind of Friday night?
- [15:16]
Unknown
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- [15:25]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
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- [15:34]
Ayo Akimolere
If he does leave, who is that person? Well, we heard from David Ornstein earlier that Leverkusen's Xabi Alonso is the front runner for the job. Let's get the perspective from Germany right now with our German football correspondent Seb Stafford Blur, who was speaking to James Richardson on Tuesday's Totally Football show. Is this being seen as the kind of the end days of the Xavi Alonso regime?
- [15:58]
Unknown
I don't think we've quite got to what happens next at Leverkusen because the storyline is still really centered on what happens next at Jabul Alonso. So yesterday on Monday, Fernando Caro, who's the Leverkusen CEO, was talking at the Laris Sports Awards and he was asked, of course about Alonso with rumors that Carlo Ancelotti is done at Real Madrid and heading for Brazil. And he said, we'll probably know within three or four weeks. A couple have a really good relationship with Alonso. They've always been upfront about, you know, what they want, Caro Alonso, Simon Rolfs CEO for Sport from their partnership. And they've always said also that, you know, if Alonso wants to go, they're not going to stand in his way. They're not going to kind of keep him prisoner in Leverkusen. So we'll see. We'll see. I think, you know, the communication's pretty frank and honest there, so I think we'll have a pretty uncomplicated resolution. But he has a contract, so he might well stay, but we'll see. And then I think then and only then we'll get to kind of succession planning. Well, probably we'll get to Florin Virt first and then succession planning after that.
- [16:59]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Guillermo, look, this isn't going to go anywhere, isn't it? I mean, the connections are so rife, full of fire I like to call it. You know, we've heard reports that, you know, there's a gentleman's agreement between Alonso and Leverkuse and what's the latest on this situation?
- [17:13]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, indeed, as Seb was, was telling us, Fernando Carro was in Madrid on Monday and he confirmed that there was indeed a gentleman's agreement between Xavi and Leverkusen. If Xavi is approached by any former club, then Leverkusen will set him free. But they, they will have to sit and discuss about, about the options. Is curious because last season there were some offers for Xavi Alonso from other clubs. I think we reported about Liverpool's interest, Bayern Munich's interest. And as Fernando Carro acknowledged on Monday, I was with him at the lowris awards. And basically what he said is that Xavi sit with them on March last year, 2024. Basically what he said to the Leverkusen board is okay, let's discuss about the future. I think this year I will stay. It was in 2024 and he stayed. Now what Carlo said is that they have sit in this international break back in March. It was late March and they haven't had a decision from Xavi. What they have agreed is to take some time. What Caro said is, okay, in the next three or four weeks we will have to have a decision. And we are. At this point Leverkusen at least officially doesn't know if Xabi Alonso is going to continue. But it's true that now that Carlo has acknowledged that there is this gentleman agreement, it will be strange that if Real Madrid really needs Xabi Alonso and goes to him, that Leverkusen will stop Real Madrid because of this move. We will have to see, as I said, because Carlo said that there are three, four weeks of deadline and things could change. But they obviously plan the next season with Xavi and they are also planning the next season with some successors. Carlo didn't mention any substitute. Possible substitute, but he was speaking with honesty about the case, which is strange for that actor.
- [19:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't want to connect too many of the dots because the world of football constantly changes, Thomas, but this is a really interesting one and we've been talking about this for a while. Do you think it's time for Xabi Alonso to. To step up? Some might say, you know, what a wonderful season he had last season with Leverkusen went unbeaten and this season's been okay. I mean, has been great, but it's been okay. They're still second in the Bundesliga, an okay Champions League run. Some might say perhaps he wants to test himself at a bigger stage. But there's also a set of Florentino Perez on the other side. We use a tricky customer.
- [20:08]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah, it's. It's hard to say whether it's the right time for Xabi Alonso. I think. I think that's true of. Of asking that about any coach for Real Madrid because it's such a big job with unique pressures. I do think him having bided his time seemingly as a coach over the past couple of seasons plays in his favor. He's. He's clearly chosen a pretty intelligent path. You know, coaching Ralsod's B team where he came through as a player, then going to Leverkusen maybe a bit out of the out the spotlight. I definitely see parallels there with Zidane when he joined Madrid as a. As a legendary former player. But Xabi Alonso is far advanced, actually, in his kind of coaching career and has already achieved such great success with Leverkusen, which plays in his favor again, it's just how that all. How the chips kind of fall when you're actually at the Bernabeu. I do think his. His experience there at the club as a player, he also left on his own terms. I think that that all helps. He knows how to. How to manage those unique pressures, and. And players would look up to him. I mean, you know, you know that from even reading interviews, watching and listening to interviews with his Leverkusen players. They do look up to him because of that legendary playing career he's had. And I'm sure he would be able to instill his philosophy at Madrid. You feel like he has the personality to do that.
- [21:28]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, he does have a certain Aura Guillermo, you know, because of what he's won as a player and actually as a coach now, especially what he's done at Leverkusen. But, you know, I guess the expectation at Leverkusen, him arriving would be a lot different to the expectation and the pressure of arriving at Real Madrid, especially off the back of a season where they haven't won the Champions League, there's a chance they might not win La Liga or the Copel Del. And he's going to be coming into that and trying to implement new ideas. I mean, do you think he's the kind of coach that can wear this kind of pressure?
- [22:01]
Guillermo Ray
Well, I think that he has the experience from his career as a player, as you said. Obviously, he knows how. How Real Madrid works. He has been at the Real Madrid academy as a coach. It was his first job as a football coach. So I will say that he has experience. But when you arrive at Real as a coach, as a coach of the first team is a completely different scenario. And we will have to see. He hasn't had this experience at Leverkusen. I remember a conversation with a Real Madrid senior source back last year when there was some discussions regarding Xavi's future. And this source told me something significant which was, okay, we understand that Xavier is staying one more year because he has nothing to lose at Leverkusen. All that he does is positive for the club. And it's something that I consider, like, significant, because at Real, it's difficult to get anything positive apart from a triumph, apart from a title in other clubs. If you see growth, if you see development Then people will be happy. But here at Real, even if they complain, the fans, maybe some directors complain about the style, what they really need is the triumph. They really need the victory. And Xavier will have to deal with that, along with all the changes that they didn't have to have, obviously. And if, and only if, Real Madrid have to pay something, because we were talking about a gentleman agreement, but it has been reported elsewhere in Germany that there could be a breakout clause in the contract with Bayern Leverkusen. Imagine if Real Madrid have to pay an amount for Xavier also. Then the pressure will be higher and the people will say, okay, we are paying for a coach like a player, then he will have to deliver.
- [23:55]
Ayo Akimolere
Of course I want to move on to the kind of football he might play, Thomas. But very quickly, Guillermo, I'm just thinking about the Real Madrid fans here. I mean, are they spoiled a little bit? You know, most other teams, the season they've had, of course they've not done well in the Champions League, but this is just one season, you know, they've not done well in the Champions League. They usually win the Champions League. It's almost their fate to win the Champions League. Yes, they're not winning La Liga, but this is just another season. Football is just kind of like this. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't.
- [24:25]
Guillermo Ray
Well, you seem like a Real Madrid director right now. It was like it was. It was the official narrative. But after. After a decade in which Real Madrid have lifted six Champions League titles, it's impossible not to be demanding is the Real Madrid spirit. And that's why they are so bitter use or, you know, so successful as a club. I think that Real Madrid fan base are completely really aware about the club situation. Not only about the sporting situation, but also financial situation, everything. And still demanding, because they have seen incredible things. So they have the right to be so.
- [25:05]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. Let's talk about if it is Xabi Alonso who comes to Real Madrid. I'm thinking about the style of football, because something I will go on to in a second is where this squad currently are. But this is a guy that likes a little bit more structure, as we've seen, and he's got a particular system. Now back to this fan base. Did this fan base have the time for it not to work immediately and hopefully maybe wait one season before they see the Real Real Madrid under a new coach? Or would they expect instant success and can he do it in such a short space of time?
- [25:37]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah, I think I o. As you say, they probably would expect instant success. That's that's what we've. That's what Madrid fans have come to expect of, of their team, obviously with, with so many superstars in it. I think what Alonso would bring is, is more structure, probably a more intricate style of play. I know Michael Cox has written about how despite Xabi Alonso being a kind of long passer in his day, actually short passing is what his Leverkusen team are built on. Whether players such as Vinicius Mbappe have the have the patience to learn from someone like Alonso, I guess we'll see. I do think that past of his as a player probably does help. You'd imagine he'd have some bright ideas as well as to how to fix Madrid's midfield, which has been a big, big source of concern this season in the absence of Toni Kroos. But yeah, I think those are the main things that Alonso would bring to Madrid, as you say. Whether he'd be given the time to actually implement that is another question.
- [26:30]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, our colleague Dermot Corrigan, gmo, basically wrote a piece which was titled Real Madrid have superstars, but that doesn't make them a good team. Surely that's the first thing to fix really, is to bring this team together. And we spoke about it in a previous podcast you guys were on and how it's been great that Real Madrid do have these individuals, but when you play a team like Arsenal, for instance, that are so well structured and well drilled, there's no plan B. You know, if one superstar isn't doing well, then everything kind of collapses.
- [27:00]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, I think if Carlo leaves and Xavi comes in, I think the first duty that Xavi will have to face is to do some sacrifices. After four years as a head coach, Carlo Ancelotti hasn't been able in this season to maybe take out a starter from, from the 11. He hasn't, he hasn't tried, to be honest. A lot of changes within the squad he has sent bet on the youngsters. Now he's playing Endrick. But the Champions League is gone. The Champions League option is gone. So probably with Xavier Alonso, what we could see in the near future is I will say, a brave team with different options and less I will say, well, with players that don't really know if they are starters or not, that they have to prove themselves. And I think it will be great because the level of competition or competitivity, it will be increased and that's why there has to be like a new year and a new coach.
- [28:16]
Unknown
Moms deserve our very best, especially on mother's day. There's only one place I trust to deliver high quality mom approved rose bouquets 1-800-flowers.com this year, 1-800-flowers wants to make sure all the mothers in your life get the best with double the roses for free. When you buy one dozen, they'll double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim the double roses offer, go to 1-800flowers.com acast that's 1-800-flowers.com acast, the official florist of Mother's Day.
- [28:46]
Guillermo Ray
How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here.
- [28:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Multi vehicle discount Safe driver Discount New vehicle discount Storage discount How many discounts will you stack up?
- [28:57]
Unknown
Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply.
- [29:01]
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- [30:06]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akumalera.
- [30:14]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, let's move on. What might be next for Real Madrid? Because you look Guillermo, if it is Xabi Alonso, I'm just thinking there are some very talented players on that Levis cousin squad. One of them, Jonathan Tah. You look at the issues Real Madrid now have in defense, could this be a player that he brings across with him? Because of course Jonathan Taz recently admitted that he won't be staying past the end of his contract at Bayern Leverkusen.
- [30:40]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, it's funny because Fernando Carrot at the Laureus Awards was very, very open and he, he spoke about Jonathan as well. He said every time I came came in to the dressing room, I asked Jonathan what is going to happen with him if he's joining this club or the other. Well, as far as I know Jonathan was closer to Barcelona than Real Madrid. It's true that there has been some reports related to the Jonathan's Jonathan Tas option coming to Real Madrid because he's a free agent is like the classical or the typical move Madrid signing right there.
- [31:21]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, that's right.
- [31:22]
Guillermo Ray
That's what I was going. So it's true that it's an option and it's an interesting one but I don't think he has with all due respect but he has like the Real Madrid level and that's why there has been like some, some doubts and the club has been hesitated. But it's true that there has been some links. But not only Jonathan Ta, of course we are talking about Florian births. Is is. Is the. Probably the. The jewel of. Of the team. I see it as a difficult move because of the price. Of course it will be up to 100 million euro. There are more clubs behind him. I think Alonso coming in to Real Madrid will help some players probably to get closer to the real is is. Is the truth. But we have to see every, every scenario every case in Florian woods case. I don't see it because of the price and Real Madrid last latest moves that have been free agents as we. We have been talking or other other cases. Yeah, yeah.
- [32:30]
Ayo Akimolere
I mean Wirt is an interesting one, Thomas, isn't he? Especially with Tony Kroos that. That gaping hole clearly in the midfield. And also Luca Modric twice got to be like 40 odd now. I mean you can't last forever. But that, that would be really fascinating if. If it is Xabi Alonso because we've seen just. And I think Seb Safa Blue spoke about this how influential Wirtz is to the system that Alonso plays.
- [32:54]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah, I think Wirtz is probably a more attacking player than Kroos, you'd have to say. And with so many superstar forwards, I mean I don't doubt that Wirtz would bring something very different to. To those players Vinicius, Mbappe, Rodrigo as well, Bellingham. But I do think it's probably further back that Madrid have the problems in defense, in defensive midfield. You know, Tchouameni is a player who seems to be growing into his place a bit more in the team actually despite these. These recent struggles of. Of the side. But even so, you know, Madrid have struggled to replace Gross and you're always going to struggle to replace a player like that. I think that's probably where they need to look central defense as well. Although as Guillermo says, I'm sure Xabi Alonso can use, you know, his sort of links as well. I'm sure that Aura will help attract some players to the club or you know, attract some, some players into the club's orbit, if they needed that at all. Because, you know, Madrid still remain that, that big draw for, for lots of players.
- [33:48]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, massive. Look, we mentioned there's still lots to play for for Madrid in particular. Well, we'll see how that looks at the end of this weekend. But you know, they can still cut the gap to Barca back to four points Katafi tonight. Look, they also have the Classico Ancelotti would want to make sure if he is to leave, you know, he, he surely leaves on a high with something in the cabinet.
- [34:12]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, and it won't be a bad season if, if they, if they end up lifting two titles, even if it's not the Champions League, then La Liga and Copa Re are not too bad. I mean, it's a good season, that's for sure. The point is that he's in really real need. I mean, if Ancelotti lose for any instance the Copa del Reyta and they lose La Liga before the end of La Liga season, there are still six games to be played, then his future could be decided sooner than the season ends. That's why it's also important for Carlo. That's why everyone is paying attention to every Real Madrid wrestle right now and from now to the end of the season. And that's why the body is also attentive to every game. Now every game is a final is the right thing to say.
- [35:09]
Thomas Gil Lopez Manchero
Yeah. It's crazy to think that, you know, winning La Liga in the Copa del Reyes would be not a bad season for Madrid compared to other clubs. But I think Guillermo is totally right. Like the Champions League ultimately is the does feel like the be all and end all for, for this club. I think in one off games against Barca, the pessimism among fans will be that they've lost 40 and 52 this season already. The first time Barca put four goals past them in consecutive games. And so you wonder in that, in that one off Copa del Rey final, they definitely have to be considered underdogs on Saturday. Then you've got the May 11th Classico, another one off game. As much as Barca could drop points between now and the end of the season that, you know, the direction travel really seems to be that they are winning everything. Even last night against an inspired Mallorca goalkeeper, they still, they still managed to eke out a 10 win. And meanwhile Madrid are kind of struggling. They're still in there, but yeah, it's hard to see how the, how the tide is turned, but they're still, they're still in it in both competitions.
- [36:08]
Ayo Akimolere
Very quickly, Guillermo, before you go, I'm just thinking about the brand of La Liga and I'm not here to ask you to talk ill of Real Madrid, but surely for the brand of La Liga, it's great that Barcelona come back, maybe Real Madrid come back the season after. So it's not just one team that is winning everything. You know what I mean? Considering the narrative we've had of Barcelona the last couple of seasons for the league, at least it's good that perhaps that Real Madrid don't win it all this season.
- [36:34]
Guillermo Ray
Yeah, it's true. But if you see like the last season, you take a view last time that Real Madrid have won two La Liga's in a row. It has been in 2007 and 2008. So almost 20 years. Two decades. Barcelona have been more successful in the last 20 years because of Leo Messi, of course, maybe now with Laminjamal, they are successful as well. But for Real Madrid have been tremendously difficult to win two La Ligas in a row. So I wouldn't say that if Madrid come back and win La Liga, we shouldn't say, okay, La Liga have less credit or, you know, is overpriced, overvalued. It's more a thing of okay, there are two big, big teams, Real Madrid and Barcelona, of course. And the distance between them and the rest is so high that probably is the is that is what make us feel that like La Liga have less credit, but still is. I think that it has been a magnificent season. Very, very competitive. And that's why we are still discussing about this even that we are close to the end of the season.
- [37:48]
Ayo Akimolere
It has been a really interesting season in La Liga. Gents, let's leave it there. Thomas, Guillermo, thank you so much for your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow. The Athletic FC podcast Network.
- [38:09]
Unknown
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- [38:41]
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.
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Ayo Akimolere
Remember blowing into a video game cartridge.
- [38:52]
Unknown
Or taping songs off the radio?
- [38:54]
Ayo Akimolere
How about Saturday morning cartoons?
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Unknown
Hey, AOL chat rooms.
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Ayo Akimolere
Did we just age ourselves? Yep. We're Mike Finoya and Charles McBee, two.
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Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging.
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Ayo Akimolere
Question, are we old? Relive the laughs, the cringes, and the nostalgia.
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Guillermo Ray
Are we old?
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Unknown
Podcast right here on acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.