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The Athletic FC Podcast
Keith Andrews Interview: Set-piece coach to Premier League manager of the year?
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E
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, IO Akimwalere. Brentford are in the running to secure European football for the first time in the club's history. Today we'll be bringing you an interview with head coach Keith Andrews discussing his impressive start to management and also the journey that led him to this point. And with us today on the Athletic we have Oly Kay. We've also got Kiva o' Neil as well. The interview took place in Gunnersbury park where the club's Community Sports Trust were putting on an event. Oli, tell us about the occasion, but also what this trust actually does.
- [02:20]
D
Yeah, well, Brentford's community Trust is similar to what most clubs across, you know, across English football and British football will have. It's a sort of community program attached to the club, independent of the club, but under the club umbrella, as it were. Brentford is actually one of the longest running. It's been there since 1987. So when the club was sort of mid table in the third tier, playing in front of 4 and 5,000 average attendances, the club set this up and it was basically to connect with and help people in their local community, which at the time, obviously, it was a small, struggling club that probably not many people outside of that part of West London thought very much about. It was in the shadow of Queen's Park Rangers and Chelsea and Fulham, but they always wanted to make a difference within the community. And the. This event, in conjunction with, indeed, the employment agency, who are going to be their new shirt sponsor next season, and already working extensively with the Trust, was at the Gunnersbury Park Sports hub. And on the day in question, they were running this scheme where they were encouraging people who may be homeless or maybe on the verge of homelessness or in difficult situations to train up as baristas in order to potentially get a job in that cafe or in other cafes or whatever. So it was a really nice, really nice event. Keith Andrews was there. Cuver Kelleher is there. And I think it was, you know, as Keith Andrews said, this stuff is, you know, so important. When you're in the Premier League, it's very easy to lose sight of the community aspect because everything's global brand and all of that. And he said that under Matthew Benham, their ownership, you know, lifelong fan, he says it's so integral to what they do to remember and not lose sight of the community. And he said it's not just something that this club does to tick a box or anything like that. It's a responsibility that the club really feels and is central to the club's identity.
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E
Kiva, I've been to Brentford and you do feel it, that close connection to the local community. What was it like for you to witness that?
- [04:35]
B
Honestly, it was amazing in there. Like Ollie says, just to experience how many people are getting so much out of it. I didn't even know it existed. Like, I knew about the. You know, every club has a trust. Brentford was founded, like Oli says, I think, 38 years ago by Lee Doyle and his team. And they're just doing amazing work. Being in the Premier League is really helping them to do even more as well. So, you know, you kind of look at Brentford and people talking about them coming into this season as relegation contenders. After being there the other day, I'm like, I hope they never go down and they can continue having this amazing impact in the community because it's helping people from homeless people who were getting upskilled as baristas. So they work with charity called Change Please. So we could, you know, see the baristas behind the cafe were people who are struggling with or have suffered with, like homelessness in their life or currently. And they. They spend four days training up and speaking to Char James, who works for Change Please. She People walk in and they're really quiet and they don't really talk and by the end of the week they just smile and they're happy. Like, it brings out, like so much in people. And I think she said as well, not just obviously they're in Gunnersbury park at this cafe, because Brentford have obviously invited them to be there, but the across London as well. And I think it's helped. She said, 78 people back into work last year who are, you know, struggled with homelessness. So it's amazing that just that is there. And then there's so much other stuff as well. I was chatting to Sean, whose mum, Kathleen, suffers with Alzheimer's and she goes to classes there every week, which importantly are free. So, you know, they're funded by Brentford. It's all not for profit. Like, everything there is just for the people. Like, I was speaking to Sean and he's a Brentford fan anyway, but he's like, how could you not love this club? You know, even if he wasn't a Brentford fan, I think he'd be one because the toll that, you know, is having with his mum having Alzheimer's on his life and then he's getting to be around people that are going through what he's going through, caring for a parent. And then he said, you know, she's there, she's singing away to songs at different classes. She's really, really happy. And I think it just. I did not know this existed and I'm so happy that it does. And I'm gonna go back Gunnersbury park, if you're ever in the area, you know, go and get a coffee because there's so much happening and every club is trying to help the community and Brentford are really, really doing that.
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E
Ollie, I know you spoke to Keith Andrews, but who else did you manage to talk to on the day?
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D
I spoke to Marcus Gale, who. Who played for Brentford in the late 80s, early 90s and again in the 2000s. But he was sort of one of the real figureheads. You know, he's from down the road in Hammersmith. He was talking about how Brentford was the only club that would ever sort of take a chance on him as a. You know, every professional club that would take a Chance on him, him as a, as a young player and he's got so much affection and love for the club. So many people who are Brentford fans have been on this really long journey with them and you've got someone like Marcus Gale who was just talking about how incredible it is that a club that was the last league club on the, on the ladder as it were in London. You had all these much bigger, bigger clubs and Brentford was the one that was never really going to get to the big time. And now they have got to the Premier League. This amazing journey under Matthew Benham's ownership and emphasis on data and all the incredible recruitment that they've had and their set piece mastery and so on. But he was saying they all feel, everybody who's evolved in with Brentford feels that what really defines them and what inspires them really is is remaining that family club, that community club that has changed in so many ways, but has kept people, this community project, the same people running it for nearly 40 years, kept those people at the heart of it and they haven't lost touch with where the club has come from. And I think that's really important and a real point of difference, I think in this modern Premier League.
- [08:32]
E
Kiver, you spoke to Keevan Kelleher about the move from Liverpool to Brentford. Well, let's have a little listen to that short clip.
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B
Yeah. How are you? How are you settling into?
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C
Yeah, no, I'm really good. Yeah, really good. Enjoying Brentford. So it's going well.
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B
So how's the change been leaving Liverpool?
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C
And do you know what? It's been, it's been, it's been good to be honest. Like I've been lucky that I've known. I knew quite a few coming down. I knew Nathan and Keith obviously become manager and then Fabio and Sepp and then Jordan as well coming. So I knew quite a lot coming in. So that, that helped a lot to settle early on and, and yeah, it's, it's a great club. Brilliant people here. So easy to, to settle in and get to know everyone. So no, I've, I've really loved it.
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B
Yeah. You mentioned Keith there. Like what, what kind of manager is he? Can you give us a bit of an insight into sort of how, how
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C
Keith's like, I've, I've known him for a lot of years now with international football and stuff and he's very passionate, he's very hard working. You know, he loves the game and he has a lot of belief in us as well. And no, I think he's, he's been brilliant. He's. It suits him. He's great. He's a great people person. He's great at managing people. So, yeah, he's a great relationship with all the players. And, yeah, it's been seamless for him, to be fair, and I'm delighted for him.
- [09:41]
E
All right, Kiva, two things. How do you pronounce his name properly? Because I thought it was Quavin, but I think it's Keevan. And also your name as well. I thought it was Cuiva, but it's actually Kiva. Like, can you just clarify that as someone with Irish ancestry, please?
- [09:57]
B
Yes. I feel like I've been explaining it my whole life and then I sort of stopped because I was just like, people call me what they want. And I feel like he's had the same thing, because we had this really nice moment at the start of the interview where he just said, how'd you get on with your name in England? Sort of thing. And I was like. He asked me the first question of the interview, which I loved, and we chatted a little bit about our name. So basically his name is Keevin, so his family call him Keeve. My name is Keever, so my family call me Keeve as well. So we both share a nickname there. But you can pronounce it Queeveen. Or for me it would be Queever. But obviously you can pronounce it different ways and depending what part of Ireland you're from and just, you know, how you say it. I guess so, yeah, it was good to sort of clear that up, because I also thought he was Queev, because Jurgen Klopp had called him in and, you know, his interviews and different things. So I did like that he was sort of like, how do you get on with that, then? Because, you know, it's a bit of a struggle having an Irish name in England.
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E
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would like to think you spoke about his time at Liverpool and, of course, how he's doing at Brentford. Did you get a glimpse as to what that transition has been like for him?
- [11:06]
B
Yeah, I felt a bit bad. I had to say to him, like, sorry about all these Liverpool questions, but, you know, naturally, I used to write about Liverpool, used to watch him play academy football at Kirby when, you know, no one really knew he was. But people knew he was destined for great things. There have been a few players you watch at the academy who come through, you know, in the last five, however, ten years, and, you know, all of those top names, Trent Alexander, Arnold, Curtis Jones, different players. His name is very much on that list of, you know, the players that people thought, well, they're going somewhere and going to do something. Obviously did, you know, won a couple of cup finals for Liverpool and whatever else. Was sort of, you know, in a difficult position because obviously Alisson is and was the best goalkeeper at the time. Kelleher was trying to break through to, you know, become a number one was never kind of going to happen for him unless Alisson got injured and obviously stepped up last season and as Liverpool won the Premier League, he, I think he played 10, 10 league games and you know, it was really needed at that time. There was always this feeling he needs to move away to become a number one. And I feel like that was really interesting speaking to him because he basically, this is his first season where he's played like more than 30 games. So he said he's having to adapt in a way of like recovery because he's not used to playing this many games. Thought that was quite interesting. He's recently become a father to twins. He's got a little girl and boy so, you know, he's also adapting to that, moving to London. He seems so calm and composed like always, you know, in person on the pitch. That's kind of the character that he is. Sort of quietly spoken, nice little chat to him, it was. And yeah, he seems really settled and like all he can say when he walked into the cafe, like the excitement for him, I was like, here's a real celebrity around here. Like they really adore him, chatting to people and I think, you know, there'll be a lot of Liverpool fans maybe listening, scratching their heads, thinking, why did we let him go? Because he's, he is that good of a goalkeeper and he's showing that now as a number one in the Premier League when Brentford are having a very, very good season.
- [13:08]
D
Yeah, I felt he might have looked at it at the end of last season and thought there might be a opportunity for even more football this year, which has probably turned out to be the case because Alisson's picked up more injuries and then perhaps had a gradual succession to become, you know, the long term number one. But he's gone to Brentford and it's worked out so, so well. It doesn't always move work out that way. When someone goes to be a sort of bigger fish in a smaller pond, it can often go the other way and someone really struggles. But he's been one of the best goalkeepers in the Premier League this season and yeah, it's worked out Very well for him.
- [13:42]
B
A quick thing I'll just mention as well is that Kelha was a really, really, really close friend of Diogo Jota. They were best mates, you know, really close. So he's having to like leave Liverpool and deal with his grief. You know, he's got players around him like Jordan Henderson who will have experienced that too. But that was a really honest moment in the conversation as well of like how he's personally dealing with grief and that it struggle some days are harder than others and other days he said, you know, there are nice memories that pop into my head and I think for him dealing with that was. It was quite a profound moment. Hearing him talk as well about how, you know, this season doesn't really matter for Liverpool and that they've just kind of. That something bigger happened and they're getting through it. And I just think, you know, listening to him talk about that, it just, it put a lot into perspective for me on just him as a human and, and footballers as humans, which I think really important for us to remember as well. Especially being there on a day when you know, you're meeting all these people. Being connected and supported by Brentford.
- [14:45]
E
Sounds like such an insightful interview. And you can read more on Kiva's chat with Keevin in her piece up on the Athletic right now. Right next we'll hear Ollie's conversation with Keith Andrew.
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A
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- [18:56]
E
All right, let's get into Ollie's chat with Brentford's head coach, Keith Andrews.
- [19:01]
D
Thank you, Keith. Thank you for taking the time to see us today. Could you just talk a little bit about this lovely event that we've witnessed here today and the people you've met and why events like this are so important to Brentford?
- [19:12]
C
Yeah, I think it's nice to come down. Time isn't always a luxury that we have, so it's nice to be able to get down and meet some of the staff that I haven't actually met before. I've met quite a few trust employees, but not met too many of the people that come to the trust. Met some elderly ladies that play football every Tuesday morning. So I've been told I need to be at the next training session and to bring. Bring Thiago with me. You probably know, you probably feel the close it is to the stadium. We're in Gunnersby Park. It's a stone's throw from. From the GTech. So it's deeply rooted within the. The community. And I think that's the beauty of a football club, I think, for us as well. But the level I suppose, that we're at in the game for this to be going on again from a very authentic place, just sums up, I think, what. What we're about and you've touched on, whether it's homeless people giving me. Been given the opportunities I've just been trained by. By someone that's been doing it only four days themselves. But he's definitely given me a few tips on how to make a fl.
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D
And it does seem like. I mean, a lot of clubs make a point about this is what we do in our community. But this. Brentford really does feel like a community club rooted in its community, not detached, not distanced from its roots at all. That's my impression from the outside. Is it. Is it like that from the inside?
- [20:30]
C
Yeah, it's. I would have no idea about this going on before I joined the club a couple of years ago. And then I knew. I knew some things last year when I was in a different role. Quickly became very obvious what Went on. And again, in a very humble way, I don't think the club needs to shout it from the rooftops. We do it in a very understated way, I think, as a club. And again, that the people that are doing it on a daily basis, I'm down here today to highlight it, I suppose, which is. Which is important. But they're the ones that do it week to week and give that time to people that need it, really.
- [21:04]
D
You've got huge clubs on your doorstep and all over London. And I guess people would look at Brentford as being not one of the giants of London football, but how important is it that you have that sort of identity within the community and what you do in terms of representing this. This area, is that really an important part of the club's ethos and identity?
- [21:26]
C
I think it's exactly that. As you were, just as you were asking the question, that the first thing that came into mind was important. I think when you've got an owner who's a fan, it trickles down from that. People that are in positions, I suppose, within the club that have to make bigger decisions. Again, comes from a very authentic place. A lot of common sense within the football club. And for me, common sense will be on this side of it, looking after your own. Looking after the people that really matter. I think it's very easy to get carried away with the trappings and the. The ways of the Premier League and what the club has been on of a journey. What an exciting journey to get to this point, but never, ever losing sight of where you've come from.
- [22:09]
D
Yeah, it really is an incredible journey. I was just thinking, had you played against Brentford when they were a low
- [22:15]
C
division club and I played one game.
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A
Yeah.
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D
What was. What was it like playing Griffin Park? Was it.
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C
Was it not nice? Yeah, not nice, but not a opposition player.
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D
Hostile. Not nice or small, just tough.
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C
Yeah, it's notoriously small. Away dressing rooms, tight pitch, tight crowds. From my memory, whether it's accurate or not, pitch wasn't very good, or maybe that's because I was making excuses. I'm not too sure. But yeah, my memories of Brentford going back to that time would have been around them chasing playoffs, not quite getting over the line. Then obviously the journey when Matt took over the football club and the way they went in a very different direction and again, playoffs didn't quite get there. Playoffs again get through and then establishing the club in the Premier League and the whole journey from afar looked intriguing to me to be now part of that journey over the last Couple of years is really nice.
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D
Am I right in saying that it was a club that from a distance you felt this would be a great place to work?
- [23:19]
C
Yeah, spot on. Yeah. I'd studied the team, how they played, watched them a lot, did a study on their throw ins as an example. Gone back numerous years, aware of the people involved, read numerous articles like we all do around the intrigue around it and, and the goodness I felt that just came from it, the authenticity around it. It was all those factors that made me want to come here and when the opportunity did arise to come here, I, I grabbed it with both hands.
- [23:48]
D
How did it come about with getting the job in the summer? Obviously Thomas moved on and big shoes to fail. A big personality, done a brilliant job here. Did you immediately know you were in the frame or did it, did it sort of come along gradually over the summer?
- [24:05]
C
Yeah, it was obviously a lot going on, wasn't there with Thomas leaving and then some staff were leaving and yeah, it quickly became apparent that the club definitely didn't want me to leave and then they asked me to present for the job. Would I be interested in taking the job? So I was obviously in a good place to. And I felt in a good place that I prepared for a long time to put myself in a position for this. I felt if I didn't feel like I was ready I wouldn't have gone for it. But I was obviously very honoured to be asked to even present for the job. I had no idea who else was in the mix but yeah, it all happened pretty quickly once I'd presented to the owner, Phil Lee and Ben Ryan.
- [24:50]
D
When you presented, did set pieces form a significant part of where you were feeling that you could improve the team?
- [24:58]
C
Not really, no. Because I was set piece coach anyway then. So I thought it was important to go off in different, different areas that I felt were a little bit more important to highlight during that presentation.
- [25:10]
D
It has been a huge challenge to take the team on. Brentford was certainly one of the teams that were tipped to struggle and I think a lot of people would have said and I, I think I almost certainly said this is going to be a real battle for, for Brentford. They've lost key players, they've got a manager, first time manager and it's remarkable that the club is going through strength to straight.
- [25:35]
C
Yeah, I obviously didn't have too much time on my hands to be reading lots and lots in the summer as you can imagine. But I obviously was aware of the feeling around it and it didn't bother me in the Slightest because if I was satin coffee shop in Dublin having a coffee with my dad and I read that Thomas had left and had nothing to do with Brentford and the set peace coach had taken over without knowing that what goes on it wouldn't occur. But I probably would have had the same opinion. So I never really got wound up with it at all. I think a lot of people felt I would use that as a motivation. It couldn't be further from. From the truth. Really. My motivation was to grab the opportunity I'd been given. It was as simple as that. I felt like I'd walk really, really hard to get to this point, to be given an opportunity. There were some difficulties in the summer, players leaving huge players that been significant parts of the team last season. And for years the captain left obviously spoiling the team with the captain, the goalkeeper, the attacking players that had scored so many goals. So there was real challenges. There were some key members of staff, not just Thomas that left. So that test year as a football club that tests everything that you've built for numerous years again before I'd settle in the building. So the big challenge in the summer was to maintain what had been built, not lose sight of what brought us to this point. I. I do like the word humility. I think that's a really important word around the way I'm wired. But that. But I think that can be misunderstood for not being ambitious and not being hungry to achieve things. Because we are and. And I certainly am.
- [27:18]
D
You touch on set pieces and obviously there's all the emphasis on data and, and things across the board now in football and sports science. And that's clearly been an area of difference and an area where the club's had an edge in recent years. How do you maintain that when everybody seems to be putting so much more emphasis on set pieces now?
- [27:42]
C
Tarta. Yes, it's the nature of it. I was at Arsenal's quarterfinal and semi finals last year in the. In the Champions League, PSG and Madrid, I think I'm sure it was. And there was long trials going in the books and I remember speaking to a couple as we were going. It's not good for us that because normally what happens when the big boys do things, it trickles down the football and pyramid and that's exactly what happens. So for me then what happens is teams go from preparing that on a weekly basis or fortnight basis depending on what team uses it, as opposed to two or three teams in the league using a long throw. And the only way you get better something is by practicing it. So I knew that would be a challenge. It certainly has been. I think you've got to maintain your levels, try and push boundaries, try and find marginal gains in different ways. I think that's a challenge with elite sport.
- [28:37]
D
Does it bother you at all from the sort of football, sort of technical point of view, if both teams are sort of waiting for the ball to be out of play and so much of the action is filtered around the six yard box and all the grappling and so on, does that, does that bother you, offend you?
- [28:53]
C
I like it. Yeah, I like it. It's. There's been a little bit made around the time the ball out of play and I think you need to find ways. What I do at every single club, if I was in charge of different clubs, I don't know, I can't answer that. Maybe not, but I think for us it's a really important part of the game to make the opposition feel uncomfortable and to give us an opportunity of creating opportunities.
- [29:20]
D
If you've got to be as Brentford and budget wise and so on, if you've got to put so much effort into being the best on set pieces and so on, do you also have to be the best when it comes to. Or, you know, among the best when it comes to culture, professionalism, environment?
- [29:39]
C
Massive. Yeah, really, really, really huge part of it. I think you walk into any business around the country, around the world now, any football club, any sporting environment, doesn't really matter what it is. And you'll, you'll see things on walls and for me they're not practiced really, they're preached. And I think that's nonsense. The culture is what you do day to day. It's who you are, it's what you represent. It's your behaviors, your values. And that's not one person, clearly, that's, that's everybody. And, and it only maintains or enhances if you work on it, if you acknowledge it and you don't take it for granted. So I'm big on that. I'm big on who we are, what we are, where we want to get to. And the players in particular, day to day just strive towards bettering themselves. There's a hunger amongst them to, to achieve things, but it always comes from an underlying level of respect for, for themselves primarily and then each other, obviously.
- [30:34]
D
There was just something you mentioned earlier where you talked about this sort of humility and keeping everything authentic. I remember I interviewed Sean Dyche when he was, I think he was probably in his first or second season. In charge at Burnley. And he was saying that he. He felt having got to the Premier League, there was. There were aspects of it that he was like, almost disappointed by because he felt like there was this sort of glossiness and a lot of sort of style where substance was lacking underneath. And he was saying, we've got to be careful with this because that glossiness is almost taken away. The earthiness that should always be what underpins everything a football team is trying to do. What you said reminds me of that. Would that. With that message about maintaining that earthiness, not being distracted by all the. All the money, all the flashiness, all the glamour around football.
- [31:29]
C
Yeah, I think. I think you make great, great point and you've picked up on a great point because they are really important. I audience the basics of the game and they haven't changed. A lot of the game has changed. You know, tactically, teams will set up in different ways. There's a lot more emphasis on certain aspects of the game because everything is scrutinized now from cameras, podcasts. Everything is just. Everybody knows everything about every team now because it's just out there, isn't it? But the basics of the game have not changed for me. The basics of willing to work hard, really work hard, and the difference of that on a daily basis, the habits that you instill in a group, like so many aspects of it. But the. But the real basics, I think some teams don't pay enough attention to. They prefer to look at the. The new shiny toy and the glossy parts of the game which. Which you're alluding to, but without the basics, that the shiny bits don't come to the fore for me. And we walk out of the basics. I think they're an invaluable, imperative part of the game.
- [32:33]
D
It can get away from a manager very, very quickly in this league. You know, you can be having your first game in charge one day and a month later, two months later, we've seen it. I don't know, is it three times this season, managers have gone within sort of two, three months. Liam Rossinier and Sean Dyche androposticoglu. It just feels like a season in which there's been less patience than ever and almost. And more criticism, like from day one and creating this kind of spiral, which it looks really, really hard to get out of unless you get out of it straight away.
- [33:12]
C
We live in a very demanding world, aren't we? And I think the Premier League, there's probably that on steroids, maybe, in terms of what. What fans Want, potentially some owners want. And it, it's a ruthless industry. That's the reality of what we're involved in. I think what makes it particularly nice for me is the people that I work with. I've already touched on the hour map. Phil Giles, our director of football, Lee Dykes, Ben Ryan. Like the support I have is, is as good as it gets. I think there's an unbelievable common sense approach towards what, what we are, where we're going. But equally it's, it's, it's a very demanding industry as we, as we about now.
- [34:00]
D
It looks quite horrible and hostile these days for a manager who's under pressure. I'm looking at, say, Liam at Chelsea. It seemed pretty unforgiving, that amount of criticism he was getting. The nature of the criticism, it seemed quite personal. It seemed quite cheap shots a lot of the time and ex teammates kind of queuing up to criticize him and accuse me of this and accuse me of that. It just, it seems quite so vindictive a lot of the criticism these days.
- [34:31]
C
Yeah, I'm not involved in any social media, I never have been and I genuinely not read. Read a lot. But, but again, I can only imagine the narrative that was around that and now it's not, it's not nice. It really isn't an enjoyable experience. Even hearing about other managers that are coaches going through that, because in any other walk of life it wouldn't be acceptable. So I don't feel like it should be to the level that it is at right now within the game. He maybe need to have a little bit of a look at itself.
- [35:02]
D
And Thomas obviously left this club and I think he talked about how it talks even when he was here and about how difficult it would be to go to another club because he knew the grass probably wasn't greener. Football life here, and I go, I could go somewhere else and there are weeds in the garden, you know, it's not as beautiful as it is here. It might look so from distance, but what he went through was really tough as well, wasn't it? I suppose.
- [35:27]
C
Yeah, without doubt. Yeah. Thomas did an amazing job here. Like people really shouldn't forget that what he achieved here in the journey that he was part of with this club was such a special time within the club's history. But yeah, it's the nature of the game in terms of where owners, fans, media are at, I think right now, within the game.
- [35:49]
D
Did you ever clear the air or did Roy Keane ever clear the air with you? I should say, because he had a Few words to say about you earlier in your coaching career. He was quite uncomplimentary about your. Did you ever clear the air?
- [36:05]
C
No.
- [36:06]
D
No. Did that bother you? What. What Roy. What Roy said.
- [36:10]
C
No, I've. I've got very thick skin and I. I'm very comfortable in my own shoes. I'm very comfortable and I've always. I've always been very fortri with this because I've done media work. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It doesn't mean it's fact.
- [36:24]
D
Are you comfortable with praise?
- [36:26]
C
No, not really, no.
- [36:27]
D
So when people suggest that you could be a strong candidate for manager of the year, what does that make you think?
- [36:35]
C
It makes me think what you said at the start where a lot of people would have been thinking that I might have been one of those managers. Not. Not in place come the end of the season and the skepticism around the club. So it makes me feel very proud of where we've got to because we have got to a very good place. We still got a few games left obviously and we want to. We're really keen to finish strong. But yeah, to be spoken about in and around those ways is obviously very nice. There's no doubt about that. But no, I'm not. I don't deal with having flat rate too well.
- [37:06]
D
Which managers have stood out for you in terms of performance? Obviously the ones that are at the top of the league. But you've got people like Iraola who's. Who's got Bournemouth flying high. You've got the manager at Sunderland, Leeds, who have done brilliantly with newly promoted teams. Did you feel any of those?
- [37:24]
C
I think Mikhail, the way. The way he's got Arsenal to this point and built over numerous years and there's attention to detail around every game that he goes into. I think the game last weekend against Man City was fascinating. I really enjoyed that. I watched that very much as a neutral and just keen to learn and see what way they would. Where would attack those games. So obviously they're fighting it out for the title. Clearly. I think the two that you mentioned has to come into the league and stay in the league as we know for numerous years has been really difficult for teams to do that regardless of the money that you spend and where you put that. I think Daniel's done a really good job at Leeds change the system. I think it was a pivotal part of his season and they've done really well.
- [38:08]
D
And just finally, where can this remarkable Brentford journey lead? Europe is the obvious sort of next target is it can it be done this season.
- [38:17]
C
We'll push as hard as we can for the rest of the season. Where that brings us we obviously don't know, but I think where the ceiling is for this club shouldn't be a ceiling. The club has proved that time and time again. I think this season is a good example of of of that because there was a lot of question marks around the club inevitably in the summer and would this be the the end of this chapter and where we would go from this point? I think as long as you've got really good people making common sense decisions with a medium to long term approach to it, then you're going to be in good hands.
- [38:51]
D
Fantastic. Thank you so much Keith.
- [38:53]
C
Thank you buddy.
- [38:59]
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C
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- [42:18]
E
Well Ollie, from set piece coach to Premier League manager, it's been quite a remark rise and also a remarkable season for Keith Andrews. Not many had Brentford to be where they are this season. Are you surprised by it?
- [42:31]
D
Well, I've got to. I've got to confess I'm extremely surprised and depressed because I think I was probably one of the people. I don't know whether I had them in my bottom three at the start of the season, but I remember writing after they lost the first game of the Forest, the season three one at Nottingham Forest. I think they were three zero down at half time and I remember writing that it's going to be a a long season for for these three clubs which were Wolves and West Ham and Brenford, all of whom had struggled on the opening day. I think it looked like a bleak Few months ahead. And that's how it turned out for Wolves and West Ham. But Brenford, they've been amazing. They've been fantastic. They're in contention for a top half finish yet again. I think, I can't remember. That would be the, perhaps the third time since they, since they came up and they're in contention for European qualification. It's remarkable what they've done. I think when they first came up, people would have looked at them and said, look, they're onto a good thing. They recruit well. Gradually they've lost key players. Ivan Toney being the obvious one. Christian Eriksen, who had a really good short term impact, moved on to Manchester United. And then last summer was an even more difficult one because they lost Brian Bermo, they lost Thomas Frank, of course they lost other players. And I was probably thinking, well, all very well talking about, you know, data led recruitment and being so smart, but every girl at the club's doing the same thing now. So that, that point of difference is perhaps gone. Johan Whisser of course went. And I just thought, where are all the goals going to come from? Where's the inspiration going to come from? Is this going to be another one of those stories where somebody's promoted from within in Keith Andrews and, you know, he's quickly found to be, through no fault of his own, out of his depth because it's a different challenge, you know, fighting against relegation, as I saw it. But no, as things stand, they've surprised everyone and probably me, no more than nearly everybody else. I think they've been fantastic.
- [44:34]
E
Just before you go, I'm fascinated by your impressions of Keith Andrews. From what I've seen in the media, when he does his post matches and stuff, he seems so relaxed, seems to take it all in his stride considering the work he's got ahead of him or has had ahead of him in the Premier League this season. How did you find him on a personal level?
- [44:55]
D
Impressive. Impressive. And had that sort of steely kind of authority about him in a room. I mean, he was a really good guy to talk to. There's a point at which I was asking about something rather unpleasant. Roy Keane said about him as towards the start of his coaching career and his eyes kind of narrowed at that point a little bit. And I was thinking, all right, okay. But he answered that, he answered that very eloquently. And he was saying, you know, I've got very thick skin, I'm very comfortable in my own shoes. And he gave that impression, frankly. He gives the impression of Being somebody who's very comfortable with who he is and very comfortable in that environment and had a good playing career rather than an exceptional playing career. He didn't get to the Premier League till He was about 28, 29, joining a completely dysfunctional Blackburn Rovers team. So in that dressing room, not many of them will have remembered him as a player. I think it takes a real strength of character and wide range of skills to be able to step up from being set piece coach to head coach and to do it seamlessly as, as Keller has said. I, I think he's, I think he's really impressive guy and you look at how the Premier League, this is something I asked him about in the interview and how the Premier League just gobbles up managers now spits them out very quickly. The Premier League landscape, it's so hostile, I think to managers going into jobs. It's so much skepticism, so little patience. You look at how many coaches this season have been gone within a few months and you know, mocked, derided, vilified. Liam Rossini, the latest of them, you know, got fairly brutally dismissed because a group of players weren't performing for him. And it's modern society, but it's amplified so much because it's a Premier League and a spotlight on it. But he seems comfortable in that spotlight and I know absolutely acknowledge that the spotlight is a lot less intense at Brentford than it would be down the road at Chelsea. But I just think he's done a fantastic job and it's, you know, a continuation of that sort of Brentford fairy tale and story and it just doesn't seem to be, just doesn't seem to run out of energy, that story, you know, I wonder whether it's next stop Europe.
- [47:27]
E
Yeah, long may that story continue. Ollie, appreciate your time. Kiva as well. Thanks for joining us and also thank you guys for joining us too. We'll catch you soon.
- [47:38]
A
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aiden Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.
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