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The Athletic FC Podcast
Klopp, Gundogan & Grimsby's chuffed chairman: Our guests of the season so far
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It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part? You can get Experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com, only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts real time updates only in iOS mobile app we interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast with some breaking news. Millions of people are now playing the mobile puzzle game Royal Kingdom. This is not a drill. Royal Kingdom has thousands of levels and is incredibly fun. What's that? I'm hearing from my producer that it has no ads and it is completely free to download. What's next? You're gonna tell me it doesn't need wifi? This just in. Royal Kingdom doesn't need wifi to play. We will continue to keep you updated as this story develops, but get it today and see for yourself. Download it on the Google Play or App Store today. Ever find yourself bored or trying to kill time? We have finally found a solution for you. Royal Match. Don't believe me? Let's hear what people say. Royal Match is such a fun puzzle game. There are over 10,000 levels. Also a bunch of mini games which makes it super exciting. My favorite part? It doesn't need WI fi. I play on my commute, on flights, even while waiting in line. And honestly, no ad. Not a single one. That's why I'm so into it. So there you have it. A relaxing, challenging, totally ad free game that goes wherever you go. Download Royal Match and see why everyone loves it. The Athletic fc hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Today we're shining the light on those outside the Athletic. We've had plenty of guests and these are their highlights. You'll hear From a former England goalkeeper, a Manchester City legend, and about a manager who has everyone's attention. Only one place to begin, really, and I'll admit it, it's kind of the inspiration for this show. Come back with me to the end of August and a resort that created meme after meme and really the one we thought would be the final straw. But yet again, Reuben Amrum still fights on despite the catastrophic loss to League two Grimsby in the Carabao Cup. So we ripped up the script, got Mariners chairman Jason Stockwood onto the podcast to hear his reaction. Some might say you were battered Manchester United yesterday. Talk to me about the last 12 hours. Let's get all the fishing puns out of the way, really. I had to do it. I had to do it. Yeah, look what a magical evening it's. We got involved with the club about four years ago and you know, you think of football as a metaphor for life and this without going are the cliches, this idea of David versus Goliath, you know, a club of our resources against the almost seemingly infinite resources against Manchester United have been able to do it. It just really makes you fall in love with the game again. We couldn't. We couldn't be happier. Yeah, for sure. What happens when a team like yours does beat Manchester United in terms of firstly your team morale, but secondly, in terms of the noise that sort of starts circulating around the club? Yeah, we, I mean, we. When we came and got involved with the club, it was sort of the dual purpose. One, we were fans originally and we fortunate that we had the careers that allowed us the resources to really improve the outcomes on the pitch. But it's all in service of we're really trying to change the narrative on the town. You know, we're a sort of post industrial fishing town associated with the fishing industry that's gone away. We're proud of that history and now we're navigating towards the green energy revolution that we're right in the heart of. So the football club is part of putting a new story and narrative into the town. So being on the world stage, being invited onto, you know, podcasts like this, being on CBS in the us, being on BBC this morning just gives us a chance to tell that story, that more positive story which is real in the town. And just seeing, you know, the, the excellence that we showed last night, it wasn't a lucky win. It was everything that we're about. We're trying to use, you know, progressive football, a brilliant coach, a brilliant CEO and raise the standard of the town and the club and, and last night puts us in the spot as we wanted. So it's, it's a real opportunity. We're taking off the opportunity to use this, talking to people just to say, look, you know, have a look at Grimsby again, but think differently. It's, it's, it's a town on the hill. Jason, can you talk to us a little bit about some of your players, especially the goalkeeper, Christie Pym. I heard a story last night that he turned to the United away end and said, I'm a United fan. And they said, well, why don't you let one in then? But he played out of his skin. People won't really know about him. Tyrell Warren as well. He used to be at United. Right, so who. Tell us a bit more about the squad and some stories that we should know about that. Yeah, so Christie was on itv. Someone sent me the clip this morning where he said, yeah, he says, I'm a United fan. I'm fuming, partly fuming. I saved that penalty, you know, which is a lovely moment and admission from him. So. And actually Charles Vernon, who don't know if you saw the goal, he took the touch and the finish. You'd struggle to know who was the 73 million pound strike on the field last night, the way he took that goal. And I don't know if you saw the buy seat that Sesko tried where he just air. I mean, yeah, so Charles looked like he was worth 73 million last night and we've assembled a squad. I don't know if you've seen any of the articles, but we were really fortunate a few years ago that when we played Brighton in the Cup, I got to meet Tony Bloom. And because I'm a technologist by background and an entrepreneur, we asked Tony if we could use their data. And in the moment he said no about it. But six months later they must have done diligence on them. And Jamestown analytics, which is the company that manages the data for Brighton and a few only a handful of teams globally, they said they'd allow us to use it. So we built this incredibly fortunate partnership with Jamestown, where we look analytically around the globe for players. So you saw players last night. David Gezza Torre came on. Sorry, Geza, David Tory, we've recruited him from the Faroe Islands. We've got Jason, Sam Thorson on the bench, who's an Icelandic player. Christie came in, you know, slightly older goalkeepers, incredibly highly rated through the data. So. So, you know, I don't like to single out Players specifically. But, you know, even people like Jayce Cabio we got from Churro, like Jay's will be, you know, one of players in our division. No doubt about. It's already showing that. But the data tells us that story. So. But what, what people, you know, misheard for me a couple of years ago when I started talking about data was data gets you halfway. You know, it tells you objectively on certain characteristics and variables how good their physical attributes are, how the playing attributes are. And then the. As importantly the other 50% is the coaching, is the culture, is the attitude, is the character of the players. And I think what we've got now for the first time, this, because we had a bunch of players that we were, you know, trying to improve on our contract, this is the first time we've got a squad that's fully data led. But importantly, it's based on the progressive coaching of David Artel, who, who is the coach from data point of view, the most improved players in the football league. And I think he showed some of that last night. Yeah, there was an amazing stat that I think Ian Dennis from the BBC tweeted saying the Sesko fee alone was 13 times Grimsby's turnover last season. I mean, that just kind of brings home the gap. I'm just wondering your emotions within the game at the point where the rain was really coming down and the pitch was slowing down a bit, were you worried at all that that game might get abandoned or get delayed in some way? Spot on, Adam. My wife turned to me. My wife's a really nervous watch. I was pretty relaxed most day because it was a free hit for us last night. Right. No one expected everyone. In fact, I came over on the train and I heard some United fans talking about, oh, this should be a piece of, we're going to wall up this lot. I was remembering, drove home. I was like, that was nice, but my wife's a really nervous watcher. And she turned around to me, it was raining and said, you know, if he gets called off, it was tuna low, wasn't it? He says, if it gets called up, do we get the win? And I was like, no, it'd be awful if it's called off. We have to play again. And so. So two things. So one, that was the only time I was nervous through the game was I was thinking it was coming down. It was biblical. You know, there was lightning in the background. It was like, it was such a theatrical setting. And then we've spent a lot of money on the pitch and just shout out our ground staff, it has never looked better. And when that rain come down, you know, it didn't retain a lot of the water, so the drainage system would put. I mean, it's, it's boring for people to hear, but the stuff I know about pitches and drainage you wouldn't care to, to, to talk about, but it was, it was. I spent. I said to them before the game, just shout out to Martin and that team. It was. They've done such a great job. And then. And then to see that rain come down, you know, on biblical proportions and the surface still be playable. But yeah, when it started to lighten up, I was, I was very relieved. And event wife went in the penalty, she couldn't take it anymore. She went inside and, and, and sat with a cup of tea, I think. Was she with Ruben not watching the penalties? No comment. No comment on that. I'll tell you one funny quick thing, though. So. So with Manchester United coming to town, they sent us a. Almost a rider for the manager and I was like, where's the manager's change room? And I was like, the manager's changing room towards it. It's the back of his car. Manager has a changing move. Man United things they in. And so, yeah, I thought that was quite amusing. I thought they clearly didn't know what they were coming into. When the players came off the bus onto the pitch, I was. I stood around and the United players did not look like they were up for it. You could tell, like this was, you know, it's all the cliches about you got all those incredible talents and look, I'm a massive fan of the Premier League. The individual talent on display last night was extraordinary. The team performance, you know, speaks for itself, I think, from United. But it was seeing them coming in, I was like, they did not look like they wanted to be there, which, you know, I really enjoyed. Right, let's head to America now, where Adam Crafton caught up with former Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp. In it, Klopp talks about his new life away from coaching. So it's super intense. But I love it, love it to bits, to be honest. Ms. Nothing from my old life. The big difference is I'm much more in charge of my schedule, so I can pack a day full for something and for that the next day. Whatever I do then, so that I can do that. Didn't happen too often yet, to be honest. That's why. But I could. But you have the choice. I have the choice. I can go on holiday and I decide when as well. Okay. Ola decides when but not the Premier League or the Bundesliga. So we do it. But in between the holidays I'm working, getting relationship to all the clubs, to the designs of people in the clubs, especially to the sports departments in our different clubs. And I really like it. And when it came to the transfer market, for example, how does that work in your role? What's your contribution to the different clubs? How far out will you work before the transfer window? On the next transfer window? I understand my job more with a mid and long term effect, but the daily things don't destroy that idea, but make it like keep you busy. That's how it is. And transfer window. Well, big transfer window for Leipzig obviously. Was it 26 transfers in and out. I don't know what numbers is right. My third numbers rough around it. And I'm there with my experience as an advisor. I will do this, have a look at that. Blah, blah, blah, these kind of things. So I get videos when they're 100% sure they don't have to show me a video or they're ready to take the player and that's it. But I was involved in a lot in Paris and Leipzig and sticking with Liverpool or Liverpool adjacent views. It was 15 years since FSG took over the Reds. And so to market we got the thought of former CEO Peter Moore where he's reminiscing on the significance of appointing Klopp from the perspective of being the CEO. We went to Kiev, disappointment there, but you could just sense we were ready to go back again next year to Madrid and we're successful there. So yes, and I saw that and I attended every single game during my tenure there. And so I saw the Klopp effect, if you will, firsthand of embracing what Liverpool Football Club was all about. You know, directing that in the right way. The fans, the stadium, the squad, the ownership group, the staff and making sure we all understood what the North Star was, which was not only to get back as Premier League champions or to be our first Premier League Championship, but also to get back as what we call in Liverpool European royalty and ultimately get back on our perch, as has been famously talked about. And I think that all of that happened by a very clear focus and support of Fenway Sports Group, Mike Gordon in particular with Jurgen. Tremendous relationship, understanding the business and the emotion. Jurgen, an incredibly unique individual, one of the best man managers. And I often talk about this in my business life of if Jurgen wasn't a football manager, he'd easily be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company where the skill sets that he had of leading, understanding the end goal, motivating, challenging the employees, getting the best out of everybody in business, same as in football. And that's what Jurgen had. And so I think fsg, when it clearly wasn't working with Brendan Rodgers, knew that they needed to find a manager that could embrace and corral everything that was good and great about Liverpool Football Club, march in the direction of that what we call Biggie is that European trophy and build a squad and a backbone through an organizational structure of Michael Edwards, his recruiting staff, Billy Hogan doing brilliantly as chief commercial officer and get us all marching in the same direction towards success. And that we did. And then as we famously would say, we were champions of everything and everywhere in that season where it was Premier League, it was Champions League, it was FIFA, Club World cup and hopefully be soon repeated. This is the Apple Their Tick FC podcast with IO Akimolere it's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax the best part you can get Experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts real time updates only in iOS mobile app. Stand clear of the closing doors, please. Stuck on your commute again? 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Visit JD Power.com awards check it out at the Speed Numbers store today. Right, let's talk about one of England's greatest players now. Harry Kane has started this season banging in goal after goal and has reached 100 goals in record time for Bayern Munich. For England, he's captained his team to World cup qualification yet again and continues to be integral to the three line success. So we thought we'd bring together the Harry Kane Appreciation Society and get some insight from one of his former teammates, England goalkeeper Rob Green. You were in the England squad for Harry Kane's first call up in March 2015. What was he like at camp? And also, could you guess back then that he'd become the prolific goal scorer we see today? Yeah, it's amazing to think it's a decade ago. I mean the numbers he's racked up since then, isn't it? Is extraordinary. But in short, by then, yeah, before that I actually played against him around three years before that in a reserve team game, West Ham. I was coming back from fitness and he was not near the first team and there was another, there's a whole bunch of youngsters playing and they were sort of the, the next up and coming stars for spurs. And he looked like he was struggling then. He couldn't get shots away. He was struggling to get his feet right and he's just thinking, well this guy out of all of them probably I didn't see it then. And then something clicked and it was just his finishing clicked and from there all of a sudden everything just fl. And when he came into the England camp, he was quite quiet and quite shy, which is understandable. I remember my first England camp and Gareth Southgate took me under his wing when Eiffelhurst went in. So I kind of remembered that. I remember how, what a help it was for me. He said just come and sit next to us on the bus. So I said that. I did the same. Bubs35 by then. So I was like, like one of the senior ones. Come sit here. We had, we played stick cricket, the app on, on our phones. We Played that? Yeah, just. Just trying to, you know, be a friendly face around the camp from that point on. No, really, he's, he's sort of. It's just spins one sort of seamless progression for him, hasn't it? What do you think that is? You know, you talked about seeing him back then and you weren't quite sure whether or not that that lad you saw would end up being a prolific goal scorer. But what is that with player development in general? Is that an individual thing? Is that just a phase in their life where perhaps they haven't quite developed at that point? Or is it just pure hard work that gets them to the level where he's now just undoubtedly an incredible goal scorer? I think something in their clicks. Think when you're looking at young lads, you talk about the brain and how your body develops. He's only not there till you're 24. As, as men. And, and so something clicked at a point. You look at all the loan spells he had and, and all the time he sent out on loan, he never really saw a point where you're thinking, oh, wow, he's a step above this. He's. He's got to go on. I think between, you know, playing. Because it was only three years between playing in this reserve team game and then being with the English squad, he, he. Something definitely clicked. And, and you put that down to his hard work, repetition in, in just delivering the end result over and over again. You can see it and you can see it when he plays that. He just gets. Saw it last night. When he gets to a certain point, you're going, well, this is a goal. He gets that shot away, he gets in a position where he's going to shoot, you think, well, this is it, this is a goal. And it was, well, let's talk about England. Because some of the criticisms leveled at Harry Kane is that he slows England down and he drops too deep in midfield. But for. From a player's perspective, is that fair or does it miss the point about just how good a player he is? Maybe we're thinking about him as a classic number nine. Maybe he offers England a bit more than that. I think you could counteract that and say, well, what's he supposed to do? And say, okay, Erling Haaland gets criticized for Manchester City for standing there and doing nothing. So you want him to stand up there. You look at this group and which team just hasn't sat back and waited to be beaten by England? They've all done exactly the same. And last night was no exception. So you sit there and go, well where do you want him? And you look at what he does for Bayern also and say, well, when he does drop in, you've got Sergeant Abri and other players looking to run in behind when he creates that space. So he's a wonderful deliverer of a pass and he's got vision. So. So use it. What he hasn't got is blistering pacing behind. He knows that. So why, why, why are we all asking him to make runs down the channels when you know, you may as well ask me. So you sit there and say, well actually what's his attributes, what's his skill sets? Use it. If it brings a different dimension. Yeah, brilliant. Because if he was making those runs in behind, he'd be slowing England down. Let Anthony Gordon do it, let the other players, Rashford do it, whoever it might be on the win, let them make those runs because they're quicker. Well, let's stick with England stars. Let's talk about a future one. Adam Wharton. His rise from championship starter England international has been absolutely astronomical with some of our guys calling him the next hundred million pound player. I'm looking at you, Reuben Pinder, palace fan. Not really in disguise as we had his agent, Adam Featherstone in the building. It was only right we asked him about where it all started for Wharton. The first time I ever met Adam, I was actually at their parents house and I was pitching for Scott, I was trying to sign Scott and I am in a beauty parade of, you know, probably three, four, five different agents and that was my focus. And this wiry little kid comes in the side door from the, from the drives and proceeds to show me something on his phone and ask me what I thought of that. And he's chipping a ball into a wheelie bin. So I went down the tough love route and was like, well there's no wheelie bins on a Saturday afternoon at 3 o'. Clock. So then he says, you're gonna be my agent, I'll see if you're good enough. So anyway, I was thankful enough and fortunate enough to be chosen to look after Scott. And Scott would have probably been 17, 18 at the time. So then it was quite a while later, I think the six, seven years between them. And then it was his dad, John rang me and he was like, listen, are you interested in looking after Adam? So I was like, oliver, need to have a look at him. He was in the academy at Blackburn, we went down to Derby, we thought it was at St. George's Park. It was actually at Loughborough. You went to the wrong place. Went to the wrong place, yeah. Literally kind of bombed it over and got there just before kickoff. He was playing 10. They got a man sent off to 10 minutes. I think they lost six or seven won. He barely ran around. I got in the car and said to John, it's not really for me. I think, you know, he's got some work to do. But don't worry, I'll, you know, I'll stick with it and keep watching him. And I think it was the following Saturday. That was the 21s on a Tuesday. And then I think it was the following Saturday. Watched him down at Brock hall, where I used to train. They played against Liverpool and I think probably within five minutes I was like, yeah, John, I'm on board, don't worry. And either that day or very shortly after, and Adam would have been, yeah, like 17, 18. He was the last player at Blackburn to sign a scholarship. He was the be offered his scholarship. Sorry. So it's not a timing thing, it was an intent thing. He was the last player at Blackburn to be offered his pro contract of the ones that, you know, kind of went on to a pro after the scholarship. And as you say, his journey from there has been pretty meteoric. Since the Athletic began, we've been doing My Game, in my words, where players talk in depth about the tactical elements of their game. This season we've heard from a man who has five Premier League titles to his name, Ikai Gundogan, in a compelling interview with Jordan Campbell. There was a clear message throughout. Get the basics right. What's the one or two things that you think are the strongest part of your game throughout your career? I think I describe myself as a simple player because I like to keep things simple, you know, in my life as well. But then also on. On the football pitch, I feel like it's enough already to make the simple things on the. On the highest standard, you know, as perfect as possible. Whether it's a pass you play, whether it's a control that you make, whether it's just a run that you make for opening up space for a teammate, you know, I just get joy out of simplicity on the football pitch. And if you look at our treble winning year as an example, you know, the way we built up, everything looks so simple, you know, but everything is. Has been executed in the most perfect way and on the highest standard, you know, and see, in terms of that, it seems quite similar to pep and your vision of the game. I know you've said before that you've spoken about potentially working with him as an assistant in the future. I just wondered how seriously and in depth have you spoke about that and how you'd work together? Very seriously, to be honest with you. I already finished to do my first batch. I will do the other ones as well. It just feels natural to me to go into that space. The year you joined Dortmund was the year that they broke Bayern Munich's dominance of the Bundesliga. And you've, I think you checked this, you know, one of only five players to have played for Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. So you're very rare in the sense that you've worked with arguably the two best coaches of this generation. I just wondered when you reflect on your career, whose vision of the game is most similar to yours and how maybe they've both shaped your vision of the game. Now sitting here right in front of you, I have to be very honest and need to answer Pep, because it's just of what we live together, achieve together, you know, the dominance maybe also that we had, you know, in, in the English Premier League for, for several years and the way we've played also so enjoyable football because the memory is more fresh, you know, as well With Jurgen, I started working in 2011, I think summer 2011, which is more than 14 years ago, and I stopped working with him when he left, I think in the summer of 2015, if I'm not wrong, four years, which is more than 10 years ago. So obviously the memories are not that clear anymore in your head. Even though we had amazing memories together as well, you know, and enormous success and I loved playing for him, you know, I love the way we've played football, you know, with, with teammates. I love the, the type of football and obviously also him still. I appreciate and so much, you know, just as a manager, also as a human being, that every time we see each other or we saw each other as well, you know, when we face each other of Man City and Liverpool, we hugged each other, you know, strong, like a father and son. Both had a immense influence on my success, on my career, on the way I turned out to be a football player. But with Pep, it feels in terms of football and the tactical point of view, you know, that possession based game as well, it feels a bit more clear to me, you know, than Jurgen's more transitional football. From one great player to an up and coming manager. Liam Racinha is the head coach of strasbourg in Ligue 1. Karl Anka joined me in a Conversation with him and we asked him about how he's coaching a younger generation. How has this generation of players coaching them differed from how you, when you were a player, were being coached? I think they're more demanding. Okay, they're more demanding. They want to know why. Especially in my early years, my coaches would tell me to run through a brick wall or jump in a cold river and you go and do it. I think times have changed. I think players demand more. They want to know why. You have to explain why to players, which I love, because you get authentic buy in. If I'm awful, Terry, and all the time I say, right, go and do that. Maybe 80, 90% of them will go and do it, but they'll question it and they won't be fully engaged in what they're doing. If you explain the reasons why and you get buy in and belief into what you're doing, they'll be 100% in. So nothing really changes with its generation Z, my generation. If you're sat in a meeting too long, it's boring, you're going to switch off. So that's the key. For me, it's not the time of the meetings, it's the content of the meetings. Now, yes, I try and keep my meeting short. And the shorter you can keep the meeting, the better. Some of my meetings gone for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, but I change. The players never know what they're coming into. And some of the things I talk about, I don't just talk about football. I might talk about life, might present things in a different way, try and make it humorous. I think actually the players quite enjoy our meetings. And we do one every day before training. There's a meeting every day before training. It sets the tone and the culture for the team, but it's not what you would think that I go in and go, right, we're going to play 4, 4, 2. And this is the shape. We talk about life, talk about books, talk about films, talk about history. And I think they enjoy it because they don't know what's coming. And you have to keep players engaged and focused in what you do. Yeah. Don't want to break your trumpet, but a lot of your leadership style sounds quite intuitive, 100%. We've covered a lot around cultural intelligence. We've covered a lot around connecting with people. How much work do you do on your leadership style? Is it just football or do you go beyond? Is it travel, is it food, is it music? Like, because for me, connecting and communicating with people in high pressured environments. Is a real skill. I don't really know. I. I knew I wanted to do this job. I'm somebody who. My mum was a social worker and she fosters children when I was 16 years old. So you have to have empathy when you're bringing children into your family that might stay for a year who've come from broken homes or disadvantaged backgrounds. I've always been curious about life. I read, I watch films. I always want to connect with people and my biggest thing is I want to treat my players how I wanted to be treated as a player. That's key. For me, that's the most important thing. Whether you're in the team or out of the team or even in the stand, you want to feel respected, you want to feel loved. And I'm not afraid to tell my players I love them, them. And when you create that connection with them, you can be harder with them. You know, I'm lucky enough to have children. It's not always well done. Sometimes you have to tell them the truth, but they have to know that you're telling them the constructive criticism because you love them. I don't like to scream and shout at my players. I'd rather sit down with them and get to know them and understand them. I don't think that's anything to do with high performance environments or football. I just think that's life. I think if you want to get the best out of people, you need to get to know them. If you want to have strong relationships with people, you want to create really good connections and they're authentic. And that's the way I hopefully always. My biggest thing is whenever a player leaves me as a manager, it doesn't matter how good of a manager they think I am or my tactics or my sessions, they can say to whoever they know about me, do you know what? He's a good guy. He wanted the best for me and I genuinely believe that's the best way to get the best out of people and get results in football matches. Foreign it's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service, I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part? You can get experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. 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We will continue to keep you updated as this story develops, but get it today and see for yourself. Download it on the Google Play or App Store today. You're listening to the Athletic FC Podcast with Ayo Akimolere. Welcome back to our final section looking at the guests we've had on the Athletic FC so far. Right now let's head to Europe, Northern Italy to be exact. Let's talk about Como FC managed by Cesc Fabregas. Como FC are the current darlings of Serie A. We had club president Mirouan Serwasso on the show to tell us about the club. The standout moment hearing about Cesc Fabregas involvement. Matt Slater joined me for this one as we quiz Mirouan about his head coach. One of the things that's sort of come up, I think in things that have been written about the club and the club success is Fabregas and certainly the Italians are referring to him as a English style manager in that he has an awful lot of power at the club and you know, you've basically given him the keys. Is that fair? Yes and no. Because of course he is a shareholder as well, which I think. Yeah, but it's also so is Thierry and so is Varane, right? Yeah. But with, with Cesk, obviously he's a very intelligent guy first and foremost, but we do hold that system where we have that board of directors in terms of football. So no decision is made unless majority agrees. So Cesk is instrumental to all the decisions, especially the coaching team has to agree. If we bring in that he would have to say, yes, I will play him. If he says, I will never play him, well, what's the point? Right? But it's a joint decision. I can remember there was a discussion in which we came across this guy, Jayden Adai, and CES was saying like, well, I'm not sure about him yet for today, but if you all believe in him. Yeah, let's see. So Seth was part of the decision process and he is humble enough to actually listen to everybody else, but at the same time all of us are so humble enough to listen to his opinion because he knows what he's doing sometimes we had a data player to our data. The guy's not good enough. But Seth says no, no, no, because he's playing differently with us. He would play this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And I can prove that the data will be wrong, will not be what the data says. And he has proven that with two players, if not more. One I remember is Lucas d'. Acunha. He was a player that was initially was a winger. He moved him into defensive midfielders and we bought him for 250,000 and we are now having offers for 15 million, stuff like that. And I would say that's all down to cess. Cess sounds incredibly important. Is there a bit of a key man Risk here. What happens if someone came knocking for him? Well, we always talk about successions, all of us, not just for Seth, but also for myself and everyone that works for us. We are always in discussion saying, cess, if you were to go. I mean, like, we're not stupid. We know there are bigger clubs that will come to him at some point someday, if he decides to he wants to go, he will have to help us and who will be succeeding him. So we have a succession plan that we always actively discuss together. Not just one guy. Hey, hey, if he lifts, it's this guy. No, no. Like, do you think this guy's right? Would he be your assistant coach? Can we bring him in early? Or what do you think in the future? Who would be the right guy to nurture all these guys that you've nurtured before? It's a discussion that we have to continually have. Yeah, yeah. Sticking with Matt Slater and we're going to get a little bit more serious now. New for 2025 is the independent football regulator, and heading that up is David Cogan. He's expected to fix English football. Here he is with Matt explaining what he's doing. So I came in and my concern was that none of the staff really had worked at the regulator or any one or two had ever really met a football club, which, if you think about it, is weird. And I was fairly insistent. I'm being polite about this now, but I was extremely insistent that every single member of staff at the regulator had to go and meet at least three football clubs to date. Two and a half months later, we have met over. There have been over 100 meetings between the staff of the regulator and all 116 clubs up and down the system. We're doing half a dozen of these meetings almost a day at the moment, and we are engaging. I personally have met every Premier League club. I've met all 72 EFL clubs and I've met quite a few National League clubs. I met them all as well as the leagues themselves. Just so our listeners understand, when you say you've met the club where you're meeting them, the chief execs, cfo. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be the senior execs who want to put themselves forward. Some are owners, some are CEOs, but my teams are meeting everybody involved in the engagement of stuff that we need to care about, including, by the way, fans, groups, and that culminated in this thing in Manchester. So we're getting fit for purpose at the Select Committee. As you know, I was asked about my lack of financial regulation. I've now got a CEO, Richard Monks, who comes down to have a background in financial regulation. I we've appointed two members of our board. It will be ultimately seven non execs and two of them come from a background of both regulation and also in the case of one of them comes back from background of law and very much involved in football. So we've got football knowledge on the board. We are creating advisory committees drawn from people on football as well. So the regulator itself is becoming geared and fit for purpose. We want a smaller staff that's better qualified in Manchester and London to do the job rather than a very large staff that's just going to be spreading itself. We want really smart, committed people. So I'm absolutely confident that in a year from now we will have got 116 clubs under provisional licenses that will allow us then to look at the levy and we will be a state of game report will be published and you will be able to judge me on our output. And finally, it seems right that we turn our attention to next year. One man who's expected to dominate the upcoming January transfer window is Bournemouth's Antoine Semeno. David Ornstein revealed on the Athletic that he has a £65 million release clause. And the vultures are circling. While we don't know where the story might end, we can tell you where it began. Dean Holden was at Bristol City as assistant manager when Semenio joined and remembers the first time he saw the Ghanaian in action. So the honest answer is when I seen him, it was a little bit like, wow, where's this kid been? Nobody had really heard of him and how far can he go? And that was where the sort of the individual coaching, the idp, the individual development program sort of work kicked in with him. But the raw attributes, the pace, the power, the balance, which I think is key to the way that he plays because the speed that he travels, we're all there, we're there to see. I don't think any coach can kind of get take any credit for that. That was there in the way that he played. Mr. Holden, can I ask to elaborate a little bit on that balance? Because not everyone is able to sort of run at that sort of speed. How do you sort of spot that balance and sense and Spencer balance? Well, he was a champion skier one up until he was. No, he wasn't. I'm joking. I don't know where he gets that from other than coming up against. He played a lot when he was younger and this Is, I think, the key thing for a coach when you first work with these young players, he's trying to get that connection with them. And for me, anyway, what's his story, where's he come from? Trying to get on a common ground, who's your supporter, who's his favorite player, all this type of stuff, trying to get that trust and that so you can have that honest conversation with him. As soon as they know that you care for them and you want the best for them, you can really get to the nitty gritty of it in terms of the critique and stuff like that. And it was a young age for him with his brother. He was playing with older players and when he was a lot younger, he wasn't as obviously as big as he was. So he sort of learned that, I think along the way. It wasn't coached into him. This is what I'm trying to say to you. It was. It was an ability to use his left foot as much as his right foot, not be focused on one foot, not be going in four nights a week to a club and working specifically on his strengths, which is a huge way that academies work. It was very much just finding his own way. And I think that's really set him up now for a shot that what he's got, which is playing in the Premier League at such a young age. And with all this attention, I'm really pleased for him that the attention he's now coming on him, it won't phase him one bit. I think he deserves to be playing in the Premier League. I think he potentially deserves. And you don't need to do Bournemouth a disservice, a wonderful football club. But there's a lot of noise around the fee that could be available to take him. If I was a head coach in the Premier League, I'd be badgering my sporting director, my owner, every second of every day. And that's right from Pep Guardiola at Man City right through the Premier League to try and take this kid because he can go even further. Well, that's a great place to end it for this year. Plenty more guests still to come in 2026. Make sure you're following us on all your preferred podcast platforms. All I need to say is goodbye. It's been a joy. We'll see you soon. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabreau and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart Bed Can I make my site softer? Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler? 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