Liverpool: The title they never saw

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast: "Liverpool: The Title They Never Saw"

Release Date: May 25, 2025

Overview

In this poignant episode of The Athletic FC Podcast, hosts delve deep into Liverpool Football Club's unprecedented 2024-2025 Premier League triumph—a title that came with bittersweet undertones due to the lingering shadows of the COVID-19 pandemic. Through heartfelt discussions with players, fans, and key figures, the episode explores not only the on-field successes but also the personal and communal struggles that accompanied this historic win.

---

1. Introduction to Liverpool's Triumph

Paul Machen opens the episode by setting the stage for Liverpool's 20th top-flight crown, equaling Manchester United's record. He remarks:

"This season's victory will be defined by Mohamed Salah's goals, Arna Slot's career-defining debut, and the measured manner with which the Reds marched on champions." ([02:27])

2. Reflecting on the Last Title Amidst the Pandemic

The conversation transitions to Liverpool's previous title win five years prior during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. Paul Machen narrates the contrasting emotions and circumstances:

"Shut indoors, restricted to watching football via the telly, fans were denied the chance to fully enjoy a momentous achievement in the club's history." ([03:58])

Jamie Mawson shares his personal turmoil caused by the inability to celebrate the title in person:

"Not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me in a way that I didn't really anticipate and certainly didn't." ([04:07])

3. Personal Stories of Loss and Resilience

The episode honors individuals who faced tragic losses during the pandemic. Richie Morrison recounts the emotional impact of losing his father, Paul Smith, during the pandemic and how it intertwined with Liverpool's football journey:

"We sat together, we hugged together, we cried together. You know every emotion through every game we did." ([04:29])

The hosts highlight haunting memories from the Hillsborough disaster's legacy, drawing parallels to the pandemic's toll on the community.

4. The Impact of the Athletico Madrid Match

A critical turning point discussed is the decision to proceed with the Liverpool vs. Athletico Madrid match on March 11, 2020, amidst rising COVID-19 cases. Jamie Mawson describes the atmosphere leading up to the game:

"When Liverpool scored a goal, we just got everyone's going nuts again." ([18:13])

Richie Morrison explains the immediate aftermath and the onset of symptoms that led to his father's hospitalization:

"A preliminary report into the British government's handling of the Pandemic stated that 37 people died unnecessarily because that match between Liverpool and Athletico Madrid went ahead with a full crowd present." ([28:05])

5. Community and Leadership During Crisis

Steve Rotherham, Mayor of the Liverpool City Region, discusses the challenges faced in safeguarding the community:

"We were set up to fail as a country, and it just seemed like a domino effect from things were happening, but people were just putting their fingers in their ears and saying, just let people get on with it." ([30:28])

Megan Smith emphasizes the importance of local action over national directives:

"We were taking action locally that was having a greater impact than anything that a national government had ever done." ([22:52])

6. Emotional Aftermath and the 2025 Title Celebration

As Liverpool clinches the 2025 title with games to spare, the episode explores the complex emotions surrounding the celebration. Steve Rotherham reflects on the difference between the two title wins:

"It's harder this time around because when we celebrated five years ago we were still under restrictions... it's also a little tinge with sadness because you're constantly thinking oh he'd be doing this now." ([35:48])

Jamie Mawson shares his lingering grief and the emotional detachment he feels:

"Couldn't have predicted how it would go. Couldn’t have predicted how it would come to an end." ([36:30])

The episode poignantly notes the absence of communal celebrations due to ongoing restrictions and personal losses.

7. Honoring Loved Ones and Moving Forward

In memory of those lost, the podcast honors Paul Smith and Richie Morrison, sharing their stories and the indelible marks they've left on the community. Megan Smith expresses hope that future celebrations will remember those who aren't able to partake:

"He was such a Madrid. But then he'd also say, remember us, the ones who didn't make it, remember us." ([40:23])

8. Conclusion

The episode closes by reflecting on Liverpool's enduring spirit and the resilience of its fans. Despite the challenges and heartaches, the city remains united in its love for football and the cherished memories of those they've lost.

---

Notable Quotes

• Paul Machen on Liverpool's 2025 victory: "This season's victory will be defined by Mohamed Salah's goals, Arna Slot's career-defining debut..." ([02:27])

• Jamie Mawson on missing the 2020 celebration: "Not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me..." ([04:07])

• Richie Morrison on the Athletico Madrid match aftermath: "I blame the previous government. They knew the situation in Spain..." ([30:13])

• Steve Rotherham on emotional reflections: "Winning the league triggers a lot of amazing lotions off... I suffer with PTSD now..." ([39:42])

Key Takeaways

• Historical Context: Liverpool's dual Premier League titles marked significant moments against the backdrop of the COVID-19 pandemic.

• Personal Narratives: The episode underscores the personal losses and emotional struggles faced by fans and community members during the pandemic.

• Community Resilience: Leadership at the local level played a crucial role in managing the crisis and supporting the community.

• Emotional Complexity: The 2025 title win, while a cause for celebration, is tinged with sadness and reflection on past losses.

Final Thoughts

"Liverpool: The Title They Never Saw" serves as a heartfelt homage to the intertwined stories of triumph and tragedy that define the modern era of football. Through vivid storytelling and emotional testimonies, The Athletic FC Podcast encapsulates the essence of Liverpool's journey, highlighting the enduring bond between the club and its supporters.

Transcript

[Simon Hughes]

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. I'm not saying I'm obsessed with basketball, but my neighbors definitely know when there's a new doc on Prime Video because I yell at the TV like I'm coaching the team. And with Amazon Prime, I can always count on fast free delivery when ordering a mini hoop, ankle socks and three different headbands. Because style matters even when you're missing layups. Prime is my coach, my hype man, and my gear guy all in one. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

[Paul Machen]

Race the rudders.

[Jamie Mawson]

Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Simon Hughes]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger, wait.

[Jamie Mawson]

Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Simon Hughes]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors? With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Paul Machen]

This episode contains strong language and content some listeners may find upsetting. This is the sound of Liverpool winning the 202425 Premier League title. On 25 May 2025, they will receive their 20th top flight crown, equaling set by Manchester United. This season's victory will be defined by Mohamed Salah's goals, Arna Slot's career defining debut and the measured manner with which the Reds marched on champions.

[Steve Rotherham]

Champions.

[Paul Machen]

But five years ago, when Liverpool last won English football's most prestigious trophy for the first time in three decades, this was not the scene.

[Jamie Mawson]

The outbreak of coronavirus is now undeniably a global crisis and is now officially a pandemic.

[Simon Hughes]

The World Health Organization says most, if.

[Megan Smith]

Not all, countries should expect outbreaks.

[Simon Hughes]

Vaccines give clear hope for the future, but for now we must all stay home, protect the nhs, save lives.

[Paul Machen]

Shut indoors, restricted to watching football via the telly, fans were denied the chance to fully enjoy a momentous achievement in the club's history.

[Jamie Mawson]

Not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me in a way that I didn't really anticipate and certainly didn't. Yeah, couldn't have predicted how it would go.

[Paul Machen]

But not being there wasn't what we all remember from that time. Because in 2020, some of us lost family, friends, the person in the seat next to us on match day, we.

[Richie Morrison]

Sat together, we hugged together, we cried together. You know every emotion through every game we did.

[Paul Machen]

While many adorn their houses painting the city in red, others are placing memorabilia elsewhere.

[Steve Rotherham]

He'd make sure his flags were out and now it's just like we're planning on putting flags on his grave. It's just not right.

[Paul Machen]

I'm Simon Hughes. I've been speaking to families in Liverpool to find out how this title sits. Five years on from the COVID 19 pandemic, you'll hear the story of the content creator who feels disconnect with Anfield.

[Jamie Mawson]

Now, that idea that the joy of seeing this thing could be robbed from you as well.

[Paul Machen]

The former steward who never got to save her a title win.

[Steve Rotherham]

We had videos from Jamie Cadagher and.

[Paul Machen]

Steven Gerrard and the Hillsborough survivor for whom the Athletico match was his last.

[Richie Morrison]

Then obviously, you know, the. The panic set in for the Athletic fc.

[Paul Machen]

This is Liverpool, the title they never saw.

[Jamie Mawson]

Support in Liverpool was never really a question, it was just a thing.

[Paul Machen]

This is Paul Machen. If you're a Liverpool fan, you may well have seen him on Redman TV.

[Jamie Mawson]

Thank you so much. 30 years and this bad Boy is finally in the trophy cabinet. Around the late 80s was when it started and just kind of grew from there. Liverpool at home. Me and my cousins were with me mum and me auntie, normally at Bellevale shopping centre, normally in our Liverpool kit. Because you wanted all the other kids walking around to know you supported Liverpool. I just used to think Liverpool played in the FA Cup Final every year. I just thought that was what they did. Watching Manchester United sort of catch up and overtake and Fergie talking about knocking Liverpool off their perch and then going ahead as in league titles and then extending beyond that as well. Yeah, there was just a real sense of I want to see, you know, a Liverpool need to do that to get back on their patch. But it was just. I just never seen it. And when it became my job, there came a point where I'd been to Champions League finals. I'd been there in the flesh all of a sudden to see us do all this. It's Liverpool's night. Silverware is the currency of success in football. And Liverpool have just hit the Champions League jackpot. And that was the one last one.

[Paul Machen]

Back in the 2019, 2020 season. That one remaining bucket list item was within touching distance.

[Jamie Mawson]

He's got a run on goal. He's still going. And salah for Liverpool. When you get to the business end of a season, this city just turns.

[Paul Machen]

Red by that poor means. Flags hanging from windows and parades where supporters swing from lampposts.

[Jamie Mawson]

Yeah, there was that real sense of anticipation. Where are you gonna go? What are you gonna do? And because it was. It was so on for so long, we started singing we're going to win the league in January.

[Paul Machen]

Jamie Mawson is Liverpool through and through.

[Richie Morrison]

48 years I've been going again with him. This is a long time. And I've always sat next to me dad.

[Paul Machen]

His dad Richie, even more so.

[Richie Morrison]

He was a mad Liverpool fan, you know, years and years ago. He followed them home and away. And obviously I came along. 1972. I started going the game when I was five. My dad would always say, art here, I'll have to say a few prayers. Get the prayer mat out. You know, we'll see if we see if we can get us over the line. Bring that league, you know, Bring that Premier League home.

[Jamie Mawson]

And it breaks for Roberto Firmino.

[Steve Rotherham]

I can remember that we won the champions league in 2019 and he was made up with that origi with a chance.

[Jamie Mawson]

Surely that wins it for Liverpool.

[Steve Rotherham]

I remember that. He said, right, the next thing we need now is The Premier League title. We need that.

[Paul Machen]

Paul Smith, New Anfield, better than many.

[Steve Rotherham]

He worked at the ground for 30 years and never seen it. And then he went and retired and he was like, okay, now it's my time to enjoy the game. I get to watch it, I get to experience it as a fan.

[Paul Machen]

This is his daughter, Megan Smith.

[Steve Rotherham]

He gravitated towards Shankley. He really idolized him. He remembered where he was when Shankley retired because he always said he came onto the blue, no one was expecting it. And he says, I was at school and next minute we all got weird. And he said, I've never cried in my life. But that was when he was really emotional. He grew up in Bootleg. His family circumstances changed when he was younger, so he moved to Anfield. So he lived within five minutes of the ground.

[Paul Machen]

He met his wife Marie at Anfield.

[Jamie Mawson]

He met me on Flagpole Corner, the old Flagpole Corner.

[Richie Morrison]

He was an exit steward then I was in the Specials.

[Paul Machen]

The Specials are a voluntary police force.

[Richie Morrison]

And I was put on Flagpole Corner all the time and he asked me out. I went home and said to my mum, I wonder Stewart has asked me out. And I went, I don't think I'll go.

[Steve Rotherham]

She went, excuse me.

[Richie Morrison]

She said, how would you like it if it was your son?

[Steve Rotherham]

And you wouldn't say enough for him.

[Richie Morrison]

And I went, okay. And that's how we got together.

[Paul Machen]

Liverpool is in the northwest of England, but it has a big Irish influence. Many think it has more of a connection with the sea than the land behind. It is often described as a left leaning city, but more accurately it's a city at opposition. Anfield, the home of Liverpool Football Club, is a working class district just to the north of its centre.

[Megan Smith]

Anfield is a fantastic area with, you know, lots now of new built housing and people with gardens and drives and all that sort of stuff. But there are areas of multiple deprivation and within that there are HMOs, houses of multiple occupancy and all of that sort of stuff.

[Paul Machen]

That's Steve Rotherham. He's the mayor of the Liverpool City region and he's held that position since 2017. His role is separate from the government and is perhaps best surmised as soft power in charge of transport planning and the development for the region. Oh, and he's a big football fan.

[Megan Smith]

When I was a kid, those smells of Higson's beer, if you remember at the time of hot dogs and fried onions and fried flatulence. But it isn't just about going and watching 22 fellas kicking the football. It's about everything before it. It's about you know, where are you going to meet up, are you going to have a pint with your mates beforehand. It's discussing how you think the lineups will be, it's second guessing the manager, it's sometimes overanalyzing things, it's picking on your favorite player and then possibly having a go at your least favourite player and predicting that that'll be the person who lets the team down. And Liverpool fans are significantly passionate about what happens at Anfield and long may continue.

[Paul Machen]

There's a strong identity that runs through Liverpool. The city's relationship with the rest of England is best described as complicated.

[Megan Smith]

Scousers are quite belligerent and don't like any imposition so don't tell them what to do. But there is this Scouse exceptionalism and it's borne out through our history. And certainly the very fact that a country had a city and city region crying injustice and did nothing about it for decades that obviously forms a lot of the thinking that we'll do it for ourselves.

[Paul Machen]

That injustice that Steve talks about is no stronger than the vivid memories of the darkest day in English football's history. Hillsborough. Richie and Jamie Mawson were in Sheffield that fateful day. Some of the 97 victims were still alive when the authorities try to divert blame away from themselves.

[Richie Morrison]

I was 16 at the time. I was really a young boy, you know and I remember we got a coach going down to Sheffield. I remember being really, really congested, you know by the gates to the point where you know we were really, really getting squashed and my dad said, said to me wait there, I'm just gonna go, I'm just going to go to toilet before we go upstairs. So I'm being a 16 year old now. All of a sudden once the gates were open, this surge of thousands of fans, Liverpool fans just headed towards the Lens Lane end like a big long tunnel. I was stood next to the wall terrified as my dad comes down he scream and shout my name Jamie, Jamie. I'm, I'm stuck against the wall. He's trying to fight his way with the crowd looking for me and I've shouted dad, dad. He's grabbed me, pulled me out because obviously that, that wasn't our, our spec cuz we were upstairs then obviously you know the, the, the panic set in trying to grab people up from the terraces.

[Paul Machen]

Paul Smith was also at Hillsborough.

[Steve Rotherham]

I think he was very, very wary and he wasn't willing to celebrate because he was caught up in Hillsborough. It was so packed in and lucky enough he was with his stepdad. Yeah, and his stepdad was a big man and he pushed him behind one of the gates, the doors and kind of blocked him in. So he was, he was kept safe. But he was very close to losing his life that day, I'd say. It stuck with him and traumatized him for the rest of his life.

[Richie Morrison]

Then you could see obviously people dying in front of your eyes, which was like, this has really happened. I remember turning to my dad, my dad hugged me and we both started crying because we knew that there wasn't going to be a football match that day. There was going to be a lot of debts because you could see people in a really bad situation below us just getting crushed to death.

[Paul Machen]

March 11, 2020. Liverpool vs Atletico Madrid. Officially 52,267 spectators crammed into Anfield for a Champions League last 16 tie. It was the last game of football on English soil for over 3 months. Pre match nerves were present and not just because Liverpool were losing 1 nil from the first leg.

[Jamie Mawson]

It was such a funny game.

[Paul Machen]

Poor Machen.

[Jamie Mawson]

It being a Champions League game, there was huge stakes around it. The season had gone basically pretty much perfectly up until around that sort of point.

[Steve Rotherham]

Oh, that's broken through.

[Jamie Mawson]

It's broken through.

[Paul Machen]

For Sadio Mane.

[Jamie Mawson]

It was crazy going to the game because you had all this sort of lumen overhead. The idea that, you know, coronavirus was, wasn't just coming, it wasn't just something you were seeing on the news. It was basically here. And there were going to be ramifications coming in the days to follow.

[Richie Morrison]

We spoke about this week and a half week, a week before the game, Jamie Morton, because my dad was watching the news, I was watching the news and we'd seen people getting carried out in body bags in, in Italy and Spain. And he'd be on the phone to me saying, are you sure this is my thing to, you know, should this game be going ahead? I said, dad, I don't think it should be. I said, but you've just got to follow what, what they believe is, is, is right. Otherwise they call it off. I'm sure. I'm sure they call it off. So I remember him going the game that night.

[Megan Smith]

Well, I was in two minds whether to go to the Athletico game.

[Paul Machen]

Steve Rotherham Mayor of the Liverpool City.

[Megan Smith]

Region, we had a discussion here and what we decided to do was to abide by government guidance. The official guidance from government, if you remember, was that There was no issues really for us and that people should continue with their normal lives.

[Paul Machen]

At this time, La Liga had stopped playing football. Madrid was a hotbed for coronavirus, later deemed to be Spain's epicenter. But in the moment you're not thinking of that again.

[Megan Smith]

I remember meeting people and shaking hands, but immediately sanitizing my hands.

[Jamie Mawson]

It's the situation we were put in where we were given this warning, this guidance. Jurgen Klopp shouting at people in the main stand to pull their hands away and not try and like touch the players or have, have, have high fives.

[Megan Smith]

What we do with not shaking the hands is setting a sign.

[Richie Morrison]

It's good for you, it's good for.

[Megan Smith]

You, it's good for me not to shake hands. It's not important that 22 completely healthy players not shaking hands. It's a, it's a sign for society, for everybody out there.

[Jamie Mawson]

And Liverpool scored a goal and we just got, everyone's going nuts again.

[Richie Morrison]

Breaking beyond the fullback, finding across al.

[Jamie Mawson]

Break through for Liverpool.

[Richie Morrison]

I remember him phoning me after the game because obviously we should have won the game, but we didn't win the game. There's an opportunity here to finish it off. Alvaro Morata in front of the Atletico.

[Jamie Mawson]

Fans.

[Richie Morrison]

Sends his team into the quarterfinals of the Champions League. But I remember him concerns, you know, he said, I, I, I did, I didn't feel right. You know, there were people around me putting masks over the face.

[Jamie Mawson]

It's highly likely that when the massive spread happened in Liverpool it was centered around that game.

[Richie Morrison]

I said, well just get home and said, you'll be okay, you'll be okay. So a couple of days later he thought it was flu like symptoms, you.

[Paul Machen]

Know, that decision to let the match go ahead would wreck Liverpool and the country for the months to come.

[Jamie Mawson]

Even the most basics of things just were more hard work as a result.

[Megan Smith]

They weren't just numbers. People were dying unnecessarily.

[Richie Morrison]

My mum phoned me and said, look, your dad's not a bit well. I've had to phone an ambulance for him.

[Paul Machen]

Flu like symptoms, tiredness, shortness of breath. You'll remember the signs to look out for. That was the reality for Paul Machen.

[Jamie Mawson]

I posted the first sort of update video on it on the 19th of March. And just saying I'm sick, weak, achy, cramps, cough, headaches, shortness of breath. It's an absolute delight. The worst flu I'd ever had just in terms of being laid low and then shortness of breath on top of that. So just that Sense of not being able to take a full, fulfilling lung full of air, just even the most basics of things just were more hard work as a result.

[Paul Machen]

Paul was 37 and a father. But for a man whose entire livelihood was formed around football, it wasn't just health that Paul was worried about.

[Jamie Mawson]

We weren't even gonna, didn't even know if the season was ever gonna end and what that was gonna look like. And we entered into then, without a doubt the worst and most stressful period of my life. Just as a pure football fan. The idea of having that stolen from you, which I think Jurgen Klopp aptly described as like the most important of the least important things, there's all this huge thing going around. People are dying and people that you know, are dying as well by this point. If felt a bit like, you know, silly to be worried about such a thing, but you had to because the staff there needed pay and the livelihoods, you know, to be, be concerned around as well as just that. Yeah, that, that idea that the joy of seeing this thing could be robbed from you as well. Yeah. It was a pretty heartbreaking time to.

[Paul Machen]

Be away from football. Steve Rotherham was trying to keep the city safe, battling against poor communication from the government in London.

[Megan Smith]

Well, I was seeing some of the effects of non compliance and my only driver in all of that time was the safety of the 1.6, 1.7 million people in the Liverpool city region. All I thought about was what was happening in our areas and I wanted to ensure that people here were as safe as we could possibly make it. And I knew because I was seeing all of the, the evidence that was coming forward and all the statistical stuff that was being presented to us, that they weren't just numbers. People were dying unnecessarily because of this horrendous pandemic. It was a terrible decision for the game to go ahead because what they had is all the scientific evidence behind this and we didn't have any of that. We never had access to anything. So we were reading the papers and listening to the news on the television like everybody else, and then trying to formulate policy for our area. And yet we were doing it blindfolded because they at that stage had decided that we weren't privy to what was happening. But those significant decisions that they took on behalf of us all obviously had really terrible and disastrous consequences for some families who still now are absolutely convinced that their loved ones died of COVID because they attended that football game.

[Paul Machen]

Eventually Steve was able to play a significant role in the Safety strategy for the Liverpool city region.

[Megan Smith]

We were talking to the right people and we were taking action locally that was having a greater impact than anything that a national government had ever done.

[Paul Machen]

Of course, for many families that was far too little, far too late.

[Steve Rotherham]

April the first, that's when he got sick.

[Richie Morrison]

He just didn't feel right, he was sweating a lot.

[Paul Machen]

Richie Morrison had attended the Athletico game and a couple of days later it started.

[Richie Morrison]

Mum phones the, the doctors, they prescribed him, I think antibiotics over the telephone, which was not worth a carrot, to be honest. A couple of days later it progressively got worse and worse to the point where he couldn't breathe. He was, he was, he was then really struggling to breathe. And then my mum phoned me and said, look, your dad's not a bit well, I've had to phone an ambulance for him. So she phones an ambulance and the ambulance came pretty quick. They gave him an oxygen tank to get his breathing going a bit before he went in the ambulance. And she said, I remember turning around to him and saying, Richie, because she wasn't allowed to go in. So she said, richie, there's a tenor, she said, because the likelihood is, is they'll give you something and you can get a taxi back. Back home.

[Paul Machen]

Paul Smith was working in a cash and carrying.

[Steve Rotherham]

The first of April was when he started showing signs of COVID and at first we just, we didn't know whether he was just over exerting himself because he was waking up at 4 and he was going to work at 5 and then not finishing till like 8 o' clock at night because he was an essential waiter. It just seemed like it was one thing after another. He just steadily got worse and then he went into hospital on the third and within a day also he was on a ventilator. He's so fit and healthy and when he did get a cold, it was not like he had it, it was destroying people. Like, my dad ended up having two blood transfusions a day because his blood was just clotting and then he ended up having dialysis twice a day because his kidneys were failing him. At first it started like, oh, it's like the flu. And then we were like, this is not the flu. We constantly kept saying to the staff on the itu, because we couldn't go and see him, talk to him about football, talk to him about Liverpool, talk to him about winning the league, because we still had hope that he was going to pull through and make it through just so we could keep his brain active and he had Something to like think about because he was in, he was sedated. We had videos from Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard. He was listening to messages like that. He was getting messages from the legends like Bruce Grobber and Dave Jono and things like that. And I think that's what kept him going for so long because the nurses and the doctors were quite surprised. Yeah, he survived that one.

[Richie Morrison]

I remember phone them, I think on the Friday, it was a couple of days later. I said to him, daddy, are you okay? He was really struggling then obviously they had him on the ventilator. I said, you know, like any son, you're going to be fine. You'll be out next week, you know, you'll be fine. You're a fighter. And then the last words he said to me was. He said, I can't breathe, I've got to go. And he put the phone down. I remember getting a phone call from a consultant one afternoon and then it.

[Steve Rotherham]

Was like 7 o' clock and we got a phone call and it was like, you need to meet him up here now.

[Richie Morrison]

He said, it's not good news. And I said, what's not good news? He said, I can't do anything else for your dad. He said, I've tried everything. He said, we've changed him, we've given new drugs, we've given steroids to get him going. He said, he's just unresponsive. And I said, well, me being a son, I'm saying, come on, you've got to give another week. You've got to give him another week. And he said, Jamie, he said, I'd love to give him another week. He said, I'd love to give him another month. He said, but he's being here now and he hasn't responded to any treatments whatsoever. He said, the only thing I can do now, I've got no option. This is. Said us to turn the machine off. Which as a son, probably the worst, the worst feeling I had at the time. I just went numb to be honest with you. And he said, I'm gonna pass it over to a nurse who's gonna do a video call with you so you can see your dad. For the, for the last time I was crying uncontrollably to, to this nurse and then obviously the. We had to turn off it went blank.

[Paul Machen]

Richie Morrison died on 16 April 2020.

[Richie Morrison]

The family was just uncontrollable, you know.

[Paul Machen]

Paul smith died on 23rd April 2020.

[Steve Rotherham]

They were turning them from his spouse to his front should be tanum every couple of hours, so to see if you get more oxygen into his lungs. And they were like, we're just concerned that if we turn him, he's not stable enough to kind of recover. I was really lucky that we both made it in to see him. Then. Workers on itu, the nurses, the doctors, every single, single one of them made sure he dies with dignity and respect. And he had a peaceful ending. Like asking what song he'd like to be played.

[Richie Morrison]

Yeah.

[Paul Machen]

Marie had grown up a Neversonian. You'll Never Walk Alone is a song associated with her team's rivals. She picks up the story.

[Richie Morrison]

They said, well, the only music Paul Smith loved, you'll Never Walk Alone. And she says, I've got that on my phone. And she put it to his ear. Then he passed.

[Paul Machen]

A preliminary report into the British government's handling of the Pandemic stated that 37 people died unnecessarily because that match between Liverpool and Atletico Madrid went ahead with a full crowd present. The BBC has since extended that number to 41.

[Richie Morrison]

I blame the previous government. I really, really do. They knew the situation. They knew the situation in Spain. Madrid was the worst affected city in Spain at the time. Forget about following the signs. They, they knew the situation.

[Steve Rotherham]

We were set up to fail as a country and it just seemed like a domino effect from things were happening, but people were just putting their fingers in their ears and saying, just let people get on with it.

[Richie Morrison]

I was very emotional when we won the league that night.

[Paul Machen]

How do you celebrate winning the one title that has eluded your team for so long?

[Richie Morrison]

We were unfortunately to be in lockdown. We all couldn't, couldn't celebrate it together. But it was a very emotional, it was a very emotional night that night because we put a bottle of champagne to one side, we raised the glass to me dad, you know, but it was emotional, you know, because you think he should be here because he had no underlining health issues whatsoever. He was a great 70 year old. He'd go to gym three times a week. He was brilliant.

[Paul Machen]

Paul Matron was working with his co host at Redman tv, Chris Pajak, the night that Liverpool won their first title in the Premier League either.

[Jamie Mawson]

Come on. Absolutely incredible. What a season, what a night, what a roller coaster. I mean, look at it, look at it right there.

[Paul Machen]

And he had a decision to make.

[Jamie Mawson]

Chris had said, well done everyone. That was amazing. Does anyone want to come to my back garden and we'll have a couple of beers to celebrate? And so I went Call out our follyers and I. So we're based in Hunch Cross, and you've got to drive through Walton Village to get to that part of. Part of the city. And I drove through Walton Village and people were just in the streets jumping around, bouncing, celebrating. And I was like, I might just get out here because, like, look at all these people here enjoying the moment. And I remember thinking, I'm driving to my mate's house where I think there might have been four, maybe five of us total, sat in darkness, having a couple of, like, beers and letting all the adrenaline drain out. And I just thought, if Warm Village is like this, Anfield's gonna be mega. I'm going to Anfield. I just am. And just like, it was like a home in Beacon. I didn't tell anyone, didn't ring me wife, didn't tell Chris. I wasn't going until I was there. I just got up, parked up in a side street and just walked towards the cop. And it was just everything that I needed. Just people on Mass drinking and celebrating and cheering and climbing the railings of the Paisley gates and getting on top of the, you know, like, walls and smoke bombs going off and flares going off and like, God, like, that was the absolute best of the best. The amount of random strangers I hugged and. And bear hugged and people jumped up and down around and stuff. And it was that point I'd come out. I come out of having covert, and there probably was a little part of. Part of me that went, I'll be all right, I've had it now. But even then I stopped myself. I was probably only there for 15, 20 minutes. I remember going, that's it. I'll put the lid back on now because this will come to an end and we'll get that moment, we'll get a parade and I'll be able to let go. Then I was bottling up all these emotions, waiting for the parade. I was like, that's what I'm saving it because it's been 30 years. I want it to be this big thing. And then it never came. And so I ended up feeling really, like, emotionally detached from football for the years that followed it. Not being able to celebrate that title broke something in me in a way that I didn't really anticipate and certainly didn't. Yeah. Couldn't have predicted how it would go.

[Megan Smith]

When I saw the scenes, I absolutely understood. The overriding emotion was that we'd just won this thing after 30 years and everybody was really excited about it. And there was an outpouring of emotion I 100% got every single part of that because I was feeling all of those things too but the bit that caused me the greatest concern was I was looking at people and thinking you don't know out of that horde who might or might not have covert who can easily pass it on to somebody who can then go and pass it on to a relative and it might not be because it was a lot of younger people might not have been some of those that succumbed but it could easily have been somebody that they innocently passed that onto so that caused me sort of great anguish Foreign.

[Paul Machen]

It'S been a long long time since Liverpool fans have been able to celebrate their team winning the title Nobody knew in 1990 there would be a 30 year wait for the next one and when that moment came the world was a very different place so now in 2025 with Liverpool winning the title with games to spare how does it compare?

[Steve Rotherham]

It's harder this time around because when we celebrated five years ago we were still under restrictions we were still not allowed to be in close proximity to each other so we didn't have a full stadium it was just flags on cop end Whereas now with it it's an amazing thing and I'm made up that we've won both but it's also a little tinge with sadness because you're constantly thinking oh he'd be doing this now or he'd be saying he'd be winding up the Evertonians at way the.

[Jamie Mawson]

Anticipation for some people will be greater than ever I'm really not sure how to feel about it this time I think there's probably more sadness for me this time around I think if Liverpool had won it last season under Klopp I said in a few places like nothing on earth could have kept me off the pitch at Anfield if they confirmed that on the last game of the season I was ready that would have been me done I'd take me by an order never need to go back to Anfield again Completed football I think there's a little recrimination or a little sadness that it's not been as emotional this ride this time around the way Liverpool have achieved it has been more much more functional that I don't feel that same level of emotional attachment to that and that might be an age thing so yeah I haven't felt that same level of connection this time but look I will probably cry my eyes outfield when I finally see a Premier League title lifted there I'm just not sure I'll never know, I'll never know how it would have compared to seeing it in 2020 or in 2023, 2024.

[Paul Machen]

Since Jamie's dad Richie has passed away, Jamie hasn't wanted to return to Anfield.

[Richie Morrison]

I've still got the season tickets, the.

[Paul Machen]

Two season tickets, he gives them to his daughter so they remain in the family. But Anfield has changed. For Jamie it's, it's just not the.

[Richie Morrison]

Same, you know, because I, I miss his character that much. You know, we hugged together, we cried together, we, you know, we, every emotion through every game we did and I just cannot for the life of me at this moment in time drag myself up to get myself to that ground because I'm thinking, where is he? I think we'll have a good celebration. I think everyone's looking forward to it, you know, and get that bus through the city properly.

[Paul Machen]

What we deserve for Megan and Marie Smith it's been much harder.

[Steve Rotherham]

The things I miss about him the most is the little tiny things like when you'd walk past him when he was sat on the couch and he go, are you okay boss? And he'd grab your hands.

[Richie Morrison]

Mrs. Voice More than anything and what was this saying to me?

[Steve Rotherham]

I knew you like the back of my hands. You know what? She knew us very well. He used to call me his shadow because I followed him everywhere. I idolized my dad. He was such a good man and someone to look up to with his values. He never, he never really asked for much. He was very quiet, like routine, a wind up. I think my relationship with him was very close because he was very protective of me because I was born six weeks early and my mum and dad had lost a child before me. So he was always wrapped me in cotton wool and very protective.

[Paul Machen]

When Liverpool returned to Anfield for a game against Crystal palace for the first time since the season was interrupted, a steward's jacket with Paul Smith's name had been placed on the cough in his honour.

[Steve Rotherham]

Winning the league triggers a lot of amazing lotions off. Like I suffer with PTSD now because of what happened and what I saw on that ITU that day. And then when something triggers it off like Aiden, you'll never walk alone. That kind of like brings waves of memories that I've forgotten over the five years. But then I'm back there, square one on that day. It just doesn't seem like five years, it seems like yesterday.

[Paul Machen]

There's something else Megan would like to say. She's delighted Liverpool are champions again. She just hopes supporters don't forget what happened last time.

[Steve Rotherham]

I think the one thing he'd want is that the Liverpool fans celebrated and celebrated to the utmost because he was such a Madrid. But then he'd also say, remember us, the ones who didn't make it, remember us. When you're having a pint.

[Paul Machen]

You'Ve been listening to Liverpool. The title they never saw. It was written and presented by me, Simon Hughes, with additional help from Andy Fifields. The executive producer was Abby Patterson.

[Simon Hughes]

As we head into the playoffs, it's safe to assume there will be a few calls made by the refs that will be hard to accept. But you know what isn't hard to accept? Discover. Believe it or not, Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. You heard that right, 99%. So make a good call for your wallet and get Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry, nope. But a box fan? Happily, yes.

[Paul Machen]

A day of sunshine? No.

[Simon Hughes]

A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details.

[Steve Rotherham]

You know that feeling when a girl who gets it gives you a genuine compliment? Suddenly you're strutting through the streets, sending motivational voice notes to the group chat, manifesting a new man. That's the Tresemme Lamellar gloss effect, babe. It's an unstoppable kind of confidence reserved only for the real girls. Girls. And now we've bottled it. We're talking shampoo, conditioner, leave in cream, shine spray and a finishing oil that's seriously too glossy to gatekeep 72 hours of salon level shine. That's gloss that gives, girl. And it's available everywhere. So go out there, get glossy and give gloss with Tresemme's new Lamellar gloss collection.