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- [00:00]
Raj Panjabi
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost. And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [00:05]
Noah Michaelson
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [00:12]
Raj Panjabi
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [00:20]
Noah Michaelson
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
- [00:22]
Raj Panjabi
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcast.
- [00:31]
Chris Woff
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked, all for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [01:27]
Noah Michaelson
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:34]
Raj Panjabi
Hi there, I'm Adam Leventhal. Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. On Thursday, both Manchester United and Spurs got the job done in Europe.
- [01:44]
Noah Michaelson
Manchester United and Rouble are heading to.
- [01:47]
Tim Spears
Bilbao for the Europa League final and.
- [01:51]
Raj Panjabi
Spurs will dock in the Spanish port of Bilbao to contest the Europa League final. One of them will be in the Champions League next season. And coming up, we'll be discussing who could be joining them via the Premier League. Well, we'll look at the fight to get into Europe via the league a little bit later on. But first with my two guests, Tim Spears and Oli Kay, let's react to Thursday night's Europa League action starting at Old trafford, where Ruben Amarim's side won 41 against Athletic Club to book their place in Bilbao. So 71 on aggregate in the end. And over on Talk of the Devils, there was one man who was the center of attention.
- [02:39]
Noah Michaelson
The guy, you know, it doesn't just.
- [02:41]
Tim Spears
Score against Brentford finally.
- [02:43]
Noah Michaelson
But seriously, I mean, those two goals as a Pair of goals in a European semi final.
- [02:48]
Raj Panjabi
Wow. Yeah.
- [02:48]
Noah Michaelson
You know, a turn and finish for your right and then a touch and a hit from, what, 50 yards with your left at an angle. You know, everyone.
- [02:56]
Tim Spears
Everyone was thinking, shoot, you know, but.
- [02:58]
Noah Michaelson
You know, usually that's a sort of.
- [02:59]
Tim Spears
Air shot and it's an embarrassment. And everyone's like, oh, we shouldn't have.
- [03:02]
Noah Michaelson
Probably said anything there.
- [03:03]
Tim Spears
It was so pure, that strike.
- [03:04]
Noah Michaelson
We were right behind him. On his wrong foot as well.
- [03:06]
Tim Spears
Yeah.
- [03:07]
Noah Michaelson
In the press box, you could just see, as soon as he hit it, you're like, that is in what a strike? And you could see how much it meant to him. He savored it, you know, submerged by his teammates.
- [03:14]
Tim Spears
You could see how much Reuben Amarin was enjoying it. You know, talk about me having a.
- [03:17]
Noah Michaelson
Big smile on my face. What about Reuben Amarin in that moment?
- [03:19]
Tim Spears
And there is Karl Anka laughing because he's joined as you've just been in Ruben's press conference. What did he just say?
- [03:24]
Raj Panjabi
Oh, he said loads of really good things. And he was asked about Mason Mount. He was asked about his 32 teeth, all shining when Mason Mount scored. And Amren's response was, hey, it's not just me. If you look, it was the whole team. It was the whole coaching bench thing. And it talks about how the reason him and his coaching staff, and indeed the substitutes are so happy about Mason Mount is because they see all the hard work he does at Carrington. They see how hard the phrase was, how hard he works to be available and to try and be available as well. Look, Mason Mount is a modern football coach's dream. I've heard Gareth Southgate talk effusively about him. I've heard Frank Lampard talk effusively about him. I've heard Thomas Tuchel talk effusively about him. Coaches see Mason Mount and basically go, oh, that's my nephew. And he seems to have done it again today. So that's Carl Anker and Laurie Whitwell on Talk of the Devils after the game against Athletic Club at Old Trafford, literally purring about Mason Mount. You could. You could hear the smiles on their faces. Tim and Oli. It was a huge night for Mason, wasn't it, Tim? And were you. Are you as happy for him as they sound?
- [04:38]
Noah Michaelson
I guess. I guess we're about to find out. But, but, but, but. Probably not, but I am. I mean, I am pleased for him. I mean, his career's, you know, been drifting. 14 Premier League appearances in the last. In each of the last Two seasons, you know, and it's been a real fall. We forget, you know, he was in the England 11 guaranteed in the. In the Euros in 2021, played a lot of the World cup, won the Champions League and yeah, the sort of Man United transfer graveyard that's happened to so many sort of players over the years. So this kind of come from nowhere and it's happened twice in the last two rounds at Old Trafford. If you look at Maguire and his sort of redemption, which we spoke about last week and now Mason Mount and that triple sub was absolutely, you know, the key moment in the match.
- [05:21]
Tim Spears
This was.
- [05:22]
Noah Michaelson
This was on the hour mark when Bilbao were suffocating Man United, to be honest. And look for all the world that they were about to score a second. And then, wow, it's, you know, such a nervous last half an hour with only potentially what, you know, one goal between the two teams. But instead, you know, I think we all expected Amadiallo to make a big difference, which he did, but less so Mason Mount and then he just comes up with this. I mean, it reminded me instantly of Federico Mercada's goal against, Was it Villa all those years ago. The sort of similar part of the penalty area on the turn in the corner and a huge reaction from an incredible Old Trafford atmosphere, really. Bill Bowers certainly brought the noise, but United did as well. It was great and I love his celebration. It was kind of like, what was all that about? You know, that was a bit weird, wasn't it? And then. And then he probably doesn't score the second without the first because he's. He's got the confidence from, from scoring it. So, yeah, I mean, undoubtedly he's a bit of a sort of teacher's pet, which is why the managers sort of love him. But I definitely like him as a guy and didn't see this coming. So, yeah, really, really, really pleased for him. It was a real special night.
- [06:30]
Raj Panjabi
You got there in the end. You were happy for him in the end, which is good. It's good to see in terms of, you know, what Carl and Laurie were saying there on, on talk of the Devils, Ollie, why can he now be integral to this Reuben Amarim side? He was brought in as a. A very square peg in a round hole under Erik Ten Hag. And it was a marriage made in hell. But this potentially might be a marriage made in heaven.
- [06:53]
Tim Spears
Well, I guess, I guess if you look at the. The system that Reuben Amarim likes to play and he. He doesn't like his front three. He does. He doesn't like the, his wide players to be especially wide. He likes, he likes sort of auxiliary forwards, players between the lines, that sort of number 10 type of role, which, you know, Bruno Fernandez is very good at. But Amory wants him deeper so he can be on the ball more often and make United be the one who makes United tick occasionally. Um, so I think a lot of the time people have looked at Amraman and the struggles he's had in the first six months or so and, and thought, well, maybe somebody like Mason Mount, if he's fit, can give him what, for example, Garnacho hasn't been able to do. So, yeah, I, I think it does look like it's, it's a good fit and it's just been a case of, well, that's all very well, but can Mason Mount get fit? Can he stay fit? Can he get. Build up a rhythm of, of, of matches? And, and he hasn't been able to really in terms of match fitness and match sharpness. But I mean, coming on last night, it was such an incredible impact that he made mainly the goals. But I think for the moment he and Ahmed came on, it was. It just went up a gear from, from United. And yeah, I think it's, it's really important, not just from a. From a personal point of view for him after what he's been through the last two years, and even his final year at Chelsea was quite miserable, but I think it's just nice to, for somebody like that, a player like that who's been through that, just to be able to remind people what, what a good player he is. And because I think a lot of people have lost sight or forgotten what a good player he is, I think that happens quite quickly these days.
- [08:35]
Raj Panjabi
We'll kick on again with, with the impact on, on Manchester United and Ruben Amarim, Tim. But as you know, I like to sort of leap ahead, get carried away with things. Mason Mount performs well in one game against Athletic Club and now surely we have to be looking at the 20, 26 World Cup. Where does he fit into that? That England. That England Once again, go on, Tim. I'll let you go off on this one first.
- [09:04]
Noah Michaelson
Where does he fit into the England team? Yeah, steady on. Honestly. No, I mean, look, I do this.
- [09:13]
Raj Panjabi
Just to get a reaction.
- [09:15]
Noah Michaelson
No, there is, there is a good point in there somewhere. I'm not sure you intended to make it, but, but if you sort of dig into what you said, as usual, you might, might find something inadvertently and yeah, I guess, you know, Thomas Tuchel Obviously likes Mount and vice versa, and they've worked very, very, very successfully together. And he'd love to have him have a fit and fire in Mason Mountain in the England team, I'm sure. And if we're talking a sort of a central left attacking role, there aren't too many in the England setup that have sort of done enough to nail down a place in the last sort of two, three years now, going back to Jack Grealish and Marcus Rashford. Raheem Sterling of course, came and went. James Madison was tried there and Mason man hasn't been tried there for a while with good reason because he's not been fit or playing for Man United. So depending on what system, you know, Thomas Tuko wants to use going forward, I think he, I think he could. I think he could fit in very well into it, but he's got to be in the Man United team first. That's the most important thing. And who knows? Reuben Amarin may already have made his mind up on Mason Matt and said, look, I've identified someone else to coming in the summer and he's a saleable asset at 26 and English. You know, we don't know that he's done a lot of squad planning over the last few months during what's been an absolutely dire period in the league. And he may have already made his mind up on that, we don't know. But obviously last night was the first time we've really seen something from him for some time. So there's got to be more of that. There's not a lot of the season left and yeah, there's a lot of squad rebuilding to do at Man United in the summer. So look, it's a fantastic moment, but as it was for Maguire in the last round. But we don't know what Amarim is thinking about, whether he wants these players next season for a start.
- [11:04]
Raj Panjabi
In terms of Ruben Amarim's sort of impact at Manchester United, does. Does reaching the final, I mean, everyone thought that they were going to reach the final after the, after the first leg. But does actually getting there, rubber stamping it, does it change the perception on him Oli yet? Or is that only going to happen when we know whether they've won it or not?
- [11:27]
Tim Spears
I think the perception all along has been that since coming in in November, he's been sort of trying to paper over the cracks somewhat and try to build something and we've seen miserable results and miserable performances in the Premier League. Everybody knows that there's been a sort of constant running commentary on that. But there's also been good results and good performances in, in the, in the Europa league. It's. It's 14 games, nine wins, five draws for United, unbeaten in that competition this season. There were three draws before he came in. So I think his, his record is nine wins, two draws in the Europa League. He's actually won more Europa League games than Premier League games, which is, which seems absurd, but I don't know. It feels to me like he's won three times as many games in the Europa League. It feels like all of their good moments in this season have come in the Europ League, but it's. I don't think it should massively change what people think. I think. I think people have probably seen encouragement in one competition and lack of encouragement in the other, and, and I've heard him suggest that maybe they're better suited to the Europa League. Is there also a point to be made that perhaps the competition is in the, in the Premier League is an awful lot stronger, that you get tested more that the standard is higher in the Premier League than in the Europa League? I'm not, I'm not disputing that. Lyon or Athletic Bilbao or Real Sassio, they're good teams, but United are playing better teams in the Premier League. Not just Liverpool, not just Arsenal, but there are really, really good teams a lot. It doesn't suit people to note, to recognize this, but an awful lot of the best teams in Europe in terms of the top 20, 30 teams in Europe are in the Premier League. So when we See United States 15th in the Premier League, I think they're still a stronger team than a lot of the teams that they're facing in the Europa League.
- [13:18]
Noah Michaelson
Just to say on am, his record in Europe this season is incredible because if you remember when he was at Sporting, they were flying in the Champions League. When he was still there, they were unbeaten in the four games he had in the Champions League. They beat Lille, they beat Man City 4 1, of course, and then after that, when he left, they lost three games in a row, thrashed by Arsenal, then went out to Dortmund in the, in the playoff round. So he's unbeaten in. I can't remember. What Ollie said now was that 13 games for Man United, 14 games for Man United, plus another four for Sporting. That's 18 matches in Europe this season that he's, he's unbeaten in. It's quite, quite, quite remarkable.
- [13:52]
Raj Panjabi
This is applicable to Tottenham as well, Tim, but, but sort of kicking on from what Oli was saying. Is it a Bit of a false economy to say, yeah, we are doing well in Europe and I know that there's a huge importance, especially with Tottenham, but also for Manchester United in winning a trophy. But you have to be better at your bread and butter, don't you? Or do you think that because it's at this stage of the season, you know, no one's going down, there's not much to play for in terms of getting into the sort of the peripheral European places in the top half of the, of the Premier League, that it's okay what Manchester United and Tottenham are doing, basically just leaving the league to sort of go sort of dormant for the time being and just concentrating on Europe. Is that okay?
- [14:38]
Noah Michaelson
Seems to be more of an issue at spurs where there's been you know, real sort of anger on the, on the terraces during these, during these league defeats that they've been suffering. But yeah, I think, I think if United and Spurs were both out of Europe by Christmas then we, we probably would have seen them maybe kick on and have a good end to the season and push for top half. Perhaps it's hard to tell but the way that they've been able to, a football manager type way, just sort of concentrate on one match and then rest everyone for the league and lose that and then win the next one in the Europa League. It's, it's really unusual. Yeah, I mean in terms of United, I mean that for them to go through the, the most sort of tumultuous period in the last sort of 40 years and still be winning one trophy every season, you know, the Carabao cup two years ago, the FA cup last year and potentially the Europa League this year is, is. Well, it speaks a lot about the club, it speaks a lot about the dressing room that they're able to pull it off for a one off knockout match but not in the league. And of course, you know, the league is the bread and butter. We spoke about this last week. It reflects where you are as a team and as a club. So I think United will probably have learned their lessons from last summer where the FA cup papered over a lot of cracks somehow I don't think it did for. It certainly didn't for me. You know, that Coventry semifinal was, was the biggest alarm bell ringing but they ignored all that. They gave him 10 hag, a new contract and 200 million to spend. Crazy. They must have learned that lesson this year. But it's a big tick in the box for Amraem and obviously just an incredible occasion for the fans as well, who, let's be honest, have been through an incredibly tough season, but could still somehow end it on a high. And in the Champions League, which has. Has been written about, the Athletic is very important financially to them. If they were to get in.
- [16:16]
Raj Panjabi
Okay, we've. We've talked enough about Manchester United. Let's just focus on what happened in Norway on Thursday night as Tottenham beat Bertiglimt 2 nil, going through to the final 51 on aggregate. His Jack Pitt Brook, who was out.
- [16:29]
Tim Spears
There just walking from the press box to the press conference room here at Asmira, the Burdiglymp stadium, after Spurs 20 win, which sends them through to the final of the Europa League in Bilbao. I thought that was a really impressive performance from Tottenham. In many ways very similar to the 10 win in Frankfurt in the quarterfinal second leg, where they showed lots of qualities that we don't really associate with Spurs. You know, they were pragmatic, they wasted time, they went long, they defended really well without the ball. I thought Dominic Solanki was absolutely heroic in his running and totally deserved to score the opening goal. I thought at that point the game's basically over. And then obviously Pedro Poiro added a second. Maybe a bit lucky with that with the cross, but maybe supposedly deserved a bit of luck after the season that they've had. I think really it feels like a big vindication of Foster Coglu. You know, he's always accused of being too ideological, not being pragmatic enough, not knowing how or when to change his tactics. But for the second, second time in a row, he's come up with a specific game plan and it's worked incredibly well. So it's a huge win for spurs, and given that they've got this final against Manchester United Bill bow. And given the uncertainty about Postecoglou's own future, I think it really sets up the possibility of a huge personal vindication for him if they're able to win the Europa League, which of course would be their first trophy since the League cup in 2008.
- [18:06]
Raj Panjabi
It's interesting, isn't it, Oli? You know, the subplot that will take this all the way to the end of the season for Postecoglou. What's your feeling on it? Is this validation for Ange and almost sort of now bridging the gap between this season and the next and there should be no questions about him, or do you think that that will just rumble on?
- [18:23]
Tim Spears
I think. I think there should be questions. I mean, for the same reason that Tim was Talking about with, with erik10hag last season, I mean, I don't think you can just simply say somebody reached a final, somebody reached or somebody won a cup and say, look, everything is good. But I do feel that I think there would be legitimate questions about, about his future and whether. Whether they can kick on again, whether it's the right thing to do to keep him or whether they win the final or not. I don't suspect there'll be many people clamoring to keep him if they lose in that final. But in terms of validation, yeah, I think trophies always bring validation. They don't necessarily validate somebody as being the right person for a job going forward, but they can certainly validate a cv, you know, a body of work at a club. The strange thing with postecoglou is it started so well at Tottenham, so extremely well, and it's just been a. In terms of Premier League form, it's been a sort of steady nose dive since, since that, you know, since probably less than halfway through the first season. And there have been injuries, there'll be very various factors. But J. At the start of the season he said, he turned around and said, well, I always win something in my second season. And everyone's like, oh, oh, really? Oh, what have you actually won? Because people don't really take too much notice of, of what, what people have done in Japan or Australia, which is, which is a little bit narrow minded, but it's, it's. Yeah, he made a very good point really about this last night about if he was sitting there having finished fifth and not won a trophy, people would say, well, that's very. Well talking about progress or. But spurs still haven't won a trophy. He has got them in with a chance to win a trophy. And it's not, it's not the whole story. It's never the whole story whether you win a knockout competition or not. But yeah, I think from a personal point of view, he would take enormous pleasure in being able to sort of walk in and plonk that, plunk that trophy down on the table in the press conference room and say, yeah, I told you.
- [20:25]
Raj Panjabi
And Tim, you know, another question on this. Yeah, if he was, if he was able to plonk that trophy down in a press conference room. Yeah, two fingers up to the, to the media that have doubted him. And he's sort of been involved in, in verbal scraps with. But if he's able to plonk that trophy down on Daniel Levy's table, what happens? Put yourself into Daniel Levy's shoes. What's he thinking now?
- [20:49]
Noah Michaelson
Quite a lot of plonking going on there.
- [20:53]
Tim Spears
Two years, mate.
- [20:57]
Noah Michaelson
I mean, I, I you talk about that press conference, I think it'd be utterly unbearable. By the way. You know, we saw 10 hog sort of rub it in Lineker and Shearers face after the FA cup final last year. Can you imagine? And sort of doing a lap of the press conference room and just pointing everyone's faces saying bloody told you or whatever in an Australian accent. But yeah, no, I don't know. I was lying awake last night thinking about an postecoglou and I don't know. I do genuinely sort of change my mind on him quite frequently. I think if, look, if you look at his record, fifth in year one, really good achievement post Harry Kane, I thought it was really impressive. Year two, they he finally wins a trophy and a big one, you know, after first one since 2008, it's hard to argue against that. It really is. And I know we're talking about papering over the cracks and whatever, but I don't know, I don't know. That's two massive achievements if you ask me. But I'll tell you what, more importantly than reaching the Europa League final for me is the way that they've done it. If you look at their possession stats last night, mind blowing, to be honest, if you're into that type of thing. 31% possession they had last night. Also in earlier away at Frankfurt when they won the last round. 39% possession are home to Bodog Lyn in the first leg. 42% possession. This was not happening earlier this season. And you watched how spurs played last night. They were organized. They took the sting out the game, which they were incapable of doing before Christmas because they just didn't want to. He didn't want them to. He didn't want them to sit on the ball or put men behind the ball and take the sting out of a match. Defenders were in positions you'd expect them to be. Wingers were coming back to double up. They were in a shape you could see where players were supposed to be. None of these things were happening before. We talked about his principles endlessly at the start of the season. Will he change his principles? Is he too pigheaded and he was. He's now shown adaptability and he's shown humility, I think not in his press conferences, but in the way that he's set up his team, he's shown humility. And because he's not been saying it, I don't know, maybe I've missed it, but people haven't been sort of praising him for that. You know, we all had a go at him for being too principled. He's completely changed that. It's got results. He's got to Europa League final. That's more important than me. The way that he's done it would bode well for next season that if he can be adaptable now with this group of players that maybe, maybe he's the guy.
- [23:24]
Raj Panjabi
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens on May 21 once the final whistle blows after a dramatic penalty shootout. We shall see what happens. Yeah, but we have to just say congratulations to Tottenham and Manchester United for reaching the the Europa League final. And next we will be looking ahead to the weekend's action with the standout game at St. James's park between two other sides hoping to be in next season's Champions League.
- [23:51]
Noah Michaelson
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal. The new McCrispy strip is here.
- [23:59]
Tim Spears
Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy barbecue, Honey.
- [24:02]
Raj Panjabi
Mustard, honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry, Big Mac.
- [24:04]
Noah Michaelson
Sauce, double dipped in buffalo and ranch more ranch and creamy chili McCrispy strip.
- [24:09]
Raj Panjabi
Dip now at McDonald's.
- [24:11]
Noah Michaelson
Bottom up HuffPost hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [24:15]
Raj Panjabi
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [24:17]
Noah Michaelson
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It WR? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [24:24]
Raj Panjabi
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [24:32]
Noah Michaelson
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
- [24:35]
Raj Panjabi
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:43]
Noah Michaelson
According to salt as wealth, 41% of high net worth individuals report having been victims of financial crime.
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Raj Panjabi
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You need concierge digital security from Reputation Defender. It's not just another app. It's a team of experts using best in class tools to protect you and your family, covering virtually every aspect of your digital life. Visit reputationdefender.com success to learn more.
- [25:09]
Tim Spears
That's reputationdefender.com success.
- [25:20]
Raj Panjabi
So we've talked about the Champions League playoff in the Europa League final with Manchester United and Tottenham. Let's look ahead to Chelsea against Newcastle at St James's park and speaking over on our Newcastle United podcast Pod on the time Chris Woff is fully aware of the game's significance. If you'd offered me at the start of the season, do Newcastle need to win a trophy against the Champions League? I was always of the opinion trophy was the big one. But I think that the amount that Newcastle have put into this, the position they've got themselves into, the desire and drive of Eddie Howe and the squad to want to get back into the Champions League. I do actually think this game is huge because I think that if they win then I can't. I struggle to see how they're warned to get into the Champions League. Whereas if they lose I think it will be a little bit deflating and I think that it could. It could tinge slightly what is a hugely memorable season. It will be arguably the best season in the history beyond winning the. The championships early on the the top division of English football before and it's going to be 100 years in two years time since they've done that. But certainly in living memory this is as you say already the most successful season. But it can be a truly historic one of the also get into the Champions League. I just think it can be transformative and so important for them. So as we know, top five places in the Premier League get a Champions League place this season. Newcastle in fourth, 63 points. Chelsea in fifth also on 63 points. Do you agree Oli, with. With Chris there that you're almost rubber stamping your place in the Champions League if you win it and then it's. Well it's anyone's guess if you lose.
- [26:57]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I look at that. I mean are they level of points with. With Chelsea going into this game? Fourth and fifth respectively. And yeah, that would put a significant gap between them. It would obviously impact the goal difference as well. I think they would have every chance of, of qualifying you if they can beat Chelsea on Sunday. And it's a. It's a huge game. It's a huge game for them and it will be a huge atmosphere because you know, although as Chris said winning a trophy meant so much more than. Than anything else. I mean it is. It is vital for the, for the club in terms of going forward and PSR and financial challenges and be able to keep hold of players and attract better players to be in that Champions League. It's you know they're. They had a really difficult summer last summer because they were up against the PSR limits and fending off interest in Anthony Gordon and others and there will be Other clubs circling if they miss out on the Champions League. So it is vital for them and I think this game is absolutely vital for those hopes and those aspirations. But also for Chelsea.
- [28:00]
Raj Panjabi
Big credit to Eddie Howe, Tim, for having crafted this season. I know he's been, you know, he's been off and ill of late. He's now back on the, on the touchline which is, which is great for them. But he has done quite, quite an impressive job this season, hasn't he?
- [28:15]
Noah Michaelson
Yeah, not one that I saw coming to be honest, in sort of November, December when they were 12th, I think. And it looked like. It looked like they've come to the end of an era to be honest, in terms of, you know, this, this team had been together for sort of two, three years a lot. That. Because they haven't been able to sign anyone for the first team which hasn't been freshened up in, in some time. And they look, they look stale to be honest. But the run that they've gone on and obviously winning the Carabao cup, yeah, they've. They've also sort of embraced the pressure that's been put on them and that's. That bodes well. I mean we saw that in the Carabao cup when they, when they beat Chelsea, when they beat Arsenal twice home and away when. And of course that, that flawless final against Liverpool. You know, they have embraced the pressure which bodes well for, for this weekend. If this was sort of a last game shootout for the Champions League which of course Chelsea been involved in before many years ago, I would fancy them to, to sort of handle it better than I would. I would fancy Newcastle to handle it better than Chelsea. For this particular game, I don't think a draw, a point is the worst result because they'd both still be in fourth and fifth if they drew this one with two games to go. Even if Forest beat Leicester at home, which I don't think is a given at all by the way, they won't ever take Newcastle or Chelsea because of their goal difference and Villa are already three behind. And you need to start me sort of. You need to be fully aware of these facets now in these matches because if Newcastle are one all and pushing for a winner late on here against Chelsea and then lose it, it would be a pretty serious blow, albeit not a knockout blow. But I think actually in this one a point would not be the worst result certainly for Newcastle. This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.
- [29:57]
Raj Panjabi
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost and I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost, and.
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Noah Michaelson
We'Re the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
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Raj Panjabi
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
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Noah Michaelson
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
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Raj Panjabi
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts. What's your go to drink before a flight, a West Coast IPA or Manhattan?
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Noah Michaelson
Find the detail that moves you with.
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Raj Panjabi
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- [31:19]
Noah Michaelson
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Levantar.
- [31:26]
Raj Panjabi
Well, let's look at how Chelsea will approach this one. They themselves, we must congratulate them. They have reached the Europa Conference League final also on Thursday night and they're going to be playing Real Betis in the final. We heard from our Newcastle reporter Chris Woff before about the kickoff time being midday on Sunday. Are we, are we bothered by that at all? Ollie? Is it, is, is that going to have an impact?
- [31:51]
Tim Spears
It's, it's generally not very helpful for a team that's played on a Thursday night in Europe. But it was a very much changed team or it will be a very much changed team that plays on on Sunday. So I don't suppose it makes too much difference. But yeah, I think, I think Chelsea will be entitled to be a little bit peeved that it's at at midday on a Sunday, Tim, in terms of.
- [32:13]
Raj Panjabi
What Enzo Maresca has done this season, I know that they've had, you know, a good run of late, three wins in a row since that dramatic late win against Fulham. They've managed to sort of keep the the plate spinning in Europe, albeit a much lesser competition. But he's managed to navigate the end of the season very well, hasn't he?
- [32:35]
Noah Michaelson
Yeah, he has. It's been a really interesting approach in the Conference League and he's done it all season. To be fair, he didn't include players like Cole Palmer even in the squad for Europe at the start of the season. I guess it's been a bit of a luxury because of the dreadful opposition that they've been largely playing. I mean, you know, last night in a semi final in front of 32,000 at Stamford Bridge, which is, you know, well short of capacity, they beat Sweden's 11th best current team. I mean, it's not really the glamour of Europe and, you know, it's pretty much unheard of for an English team to not sell out their stadium for the latter stage of a big European home time. And when does that ever happen? I can't remember that happening. It just shows you the sort of the contempt that they have for it, I guess, or the lack of interest. They've crawled through it. But I do think Maresca has, yeah, managed his squad very well. He's identified the level. And do you know what? It's not. It's not easy to avoid upsets against sort of highly motivated, you know, weaker opposition. Chelsea, by far away, the biggest draw of the competition. You know, we see in the FA cup all the time how those upsets can. Can happen. But yeah, I think last night was. Was. I mean, I have to confess of the matches that were on last night, I didn't get to see much of Chelsea. I sort of flitted between spurs and Man United, depending on where the story was. And then Bristol City, Chef United was on in the background as well from the playoffs. So Chelsea didn't really get a look in. And if the Chelsea fans can't be bothered to turn up, then I wasn't too interested about watching it either. So. Yeah, but in terms of the team he put out, yeah, it bodes well for Sunday because hardly any of the first team played. I mean, you had this youngster, Reggie Walsh, 16, and Tyreek George up front, so they're fresh for Sunday. I'm not sure the kickoff time, therefore, is too much of an issue. And of course, they're at home on Thursday night. So, yeah, no praise to Enzo Maresca. He's been really. He's been really up against it in terms of the reaction from the fans, but I think he's done a better job than he probably gets credit for.
- [34:32]
Raj Panjabi
And Oli, obviously they. They beat Liverpool prior to that game, that second game against Jurgardens. And yes, it was the first Game for. For Liverpool after winning the. The title. Etc. Etc. So there was. There was mitigation there. But do you see them being able to cope now with a big atmosphere, a big crunch game against Newcastle and being able to sort of embrace that. Do you see them as. As strong mentally this Maresca side?
- [35:00]
Tim Spears
I'm. I'm intrigued to see. I. I know they've got it in them to produce a good performance. I mean they were very good at Anfield earlier in the season. They gave Liverpool a really good game back in. Back in October when. When the two teams were. Were sort of looking like challengers. They have got it in them. They have got it in them. But it's whether they are consistent enough. Whether they're mature enough. Whether they're reliable enough. You know, they've got four huge games now. Newcastle away Man United at home. Forest away rail Batiste in in the final. They are. They are really big games. You probably look at that Man United game and think well that's. That's the gimme of those four. But there'll be an awful lot riding on the Newcastle game. There'll be an awful lot riding on the the Forest away game. Unless. Unless the the whole top five businesses done dusted by then. And then the final. The final will. Will be pressurized in a way that the Conference League matches haven't been to this point. So this is a. I mean you know, biggest cliche. Of course. It's. Of course it's a defining period of the season. But it will. It will make an enormous difference these next four games as to whether this season is considered one of progress or or one of the success achieving two of their main objectives or failure. And I think. Yeah, I think they've definitely got it within. Within them as a group of players. Looking at what they did against Liverpool last last week. You know, pulling it out of the bag at Fulham a few weeks ago that they. They do have it in them. But it's a great case of whether they could do it four times in. In. In two weeks having Having been a sort of slightly flaky, slightly inconsistent team to this point.
- [36:35]
Raj Panjabi
Final question to. To both of you and. And final point because I think it's worth negotiating. I wanted to talk to you about Arsenal because obviously they had disappointment this week in the. In the Champions League losing against Paris Saint Germain. And yes we know that Liverpool have won the title. But in terms of progress, we've talked about that with Chelsea, with Newcastle. If their next two games which are very difficult against Liverpool against Newcastle go badly. It may well be that they, you know, they drop down to third, fourth or even, even fifth. Tim, where's your sort of Arteta and Arsenalometer at the moment after their disappointment? And a lot of the talk about, oh, are they actually progressing? Is it harsh?
- [37:18]
Noah Michaelson
I think he. He's had a weird week. Some of the things he's saying are starting to sound a bit unhinged, to be honest. He was. He was talking in the week about how if. About points totals and saying, oh, within the last two seasons that their Arsenal's points total would have won the League this year, basically, and something like that. And then, and then he was saying, no, there was no better team in the Champions League this season than Arsenal. Which I think, okay, he's emotional straight after the match, but have a bit of humility. You know, you were just. You were just fairly beaten by psg. And then he had this weird thing where he said, oh, all the PSG bench were telling me that, that we. That we were the better team. All of them were. He was saying this to everybody and he got pressed on it and he was like, well, who? And he was like, oh, you know, all of them.
- [37:58]
Tim Spears
All.
- [37:58]
Noah Michaelson
They're all saying it. And then someone asked Louis, Enrique, did you tell Arteta that Arsenal were the better team? Nope. You know, I really like Michael Arteta, but I completely disagree with that. So it's like, who are these people? Was he talking to the ball boy? You know, or. It's just really odd, Odd behavior. I think he probably needs a bit of a holiday. But in answer to your question, I mean, look, yeah, they've. The League was there to be won for them this season, but football's not a science. You know, we talk about progress. The last five years in a row, that was remarkable. It's not gonna happen forever. They had a bit of a dip. I think a lot of that was down to recruitment or lack of. And then Odegaard has dipped this season and Saka was injured. They're their two best players by a distance and they've got to a Champions League semi final. I, I think. Do you know what, Maybe we overanalyze it too much and say, look, he's doing a fantastic job. As long as he has a bit of a break and re. Motivates himself for next year and they get it right in the transfer market, then they're near enough favorites to win the League next year. For me, I. I think. I think they're in a really good place.
- [39:01]
Raj Panjabi
So he just needs a holiday Ollie and he's not run out of steam. That's, that's basically it. Yeah.
- [39:06]
Tim Spears
I, I would hope he's, I would hope he's reaching different conclusions. Internally, they've been a good team in the Champions League they're probably, they were the best. They finished third in the group stage. They are, they have been probably the fourth or fifth best team in, in the knockout stage. Fourth best, let's say. So look, they're not a bad team by any means. They've, they've been very good, they've been a much improving team over the last five seasons. They've, but they have gone backwards this season in terms of performance and every Arsenal fan will say yes, but injuries, yes, but refereeing decisions and look, absolutely, yeah, those are definitely factors but there's also been a sort of more attritional, less free flowing approach to their football. It's, it's been sort of more geared towards control, less, less geared towards dominating teams. In a technical sense, I feel that's a slight worry. I always, in this situation, I would always say, look, give a manager time, look what he's done in the first four years. You could deal with about a slightly backward step. It's just that I think they need to sort of almost turn back the clock and think what they should have done last summer and go more creative, more attacking, more frontier foot rather than trying to win games by attrition, rather than focusing excessively, I think on, on, on set piece threat. So look, I, I, I would absolutely, I would absolutely say yes, of course he deserves more time. Of course people are being ridiculous when they, when they ridicule his record and, and say five seasons of failure. It's look, compared Arsenal to where, where they were when he took over when sort of bringing this conversation almost full circle. They won a Cup in the first few months, didn't they, in the FA Cup. And is that what his, his tenure is defined by? No, it's not. It's defined by the progress they've made and whether or not from here they can make the next step and it's the hardest step. And I think he absolutely deserves the, the time to put right the seasons slight missteps and, and I would absolutely back him to be able to do that. As long as his conclusions internally, privately are a little different to the, the kind of slightly delusional messages we've heard publicly. I think they are that, I think it's often a difference between a manager's public messaging, their private messaging final mischievous.
- [41:33]
Raj Panjabi
Point to you Tim, if Tottenham win the Europa League, lift a trophy, plonk the trophy down and stand shoulder to shoulder in the Champions League with Arsenal next season, who has had the better season?
- [41:47]
Noah Michaelson
Yeah, let's say Spurs. Just for the banter. I know that's what you wanted me to say, so let's just do it.
- [41:54]
Raj Panjabi
Okay, brilliant. Thank you very much. But then, actually, it's a serious point. It's all about trophies, isn't it? If you win a trophy, what you'll look back on. Exactly. Exactly. Tim, thank you very much indeed. Thank you to Oli as well. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to follow all the action, the reaction and the analysis of the Premier League and beyond on the Athletic, the website and the app. And we'll be back on Monday. Take care.
- [42:18]
Noah Michaelson
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aylie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production the Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [42:48]
Chris Woff
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