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- [00:02]
Ayo Akimwalere
Race the rudders.
- [00:03]
Dane Brugler
Raise the sails.
- [00:04]
Simon Johnson
Race the sails.
- [00:05]
Ayo Akimwalere
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [00:07]
Simon Johnson
Over.
- [00:08]
Ayo Akimwalere
Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply.
- [00:30]
Dane Brugler
I'm Dane Brugler. I cover the NFL draft for the Athletic. Our draft guide picked up the name the Beast because of the crazy amount of information that's included. I'm looking at thousands of players putting together hundreds of scouting reports. I've been covering this year's draft since last year's draft. There is a lot in the Beast that you simply can't find anywhere else. You can get the Beast and all the great coverage my colleagues do by subscribing to the Athletic. You. You can do that@theathletic.com subscribe.
- [01:02]
Simon Johnson
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:09]
Ayo Akimwalere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Manchester United and Chelsea are just two of the clubs interested in Ipswich Town star striker.
- [01:19]
Simon Johnson
He does have support from Townsend.
- [01:21]
Dane Brugler
Cutting it back for De La 2 nil.
- [01:26]
Ayo Akimwalere
Liam De La targeted so with a summer transfer auction on the cards, where will Liam Delap actually end up? Here with us today we have two writers from the Athletic who cover clubs who are keen on delap, Manchester United correspondent Laurie Whitwell and Chelsea writer Simon Johnson. Right gents, a little fun here. I want both of you to basically give me a heads up as to why dilap could be a really good option for your club. Obviously Chelsea drew 22 with Ipswich Town and Manchester. Well, Laurie, I'm sorry to say, four one loss away to Newcastle. So 20 seconds on the clock. Laurie, I'm going to start with you first. Tell me why Manchester United need a good number nine.
- [02:12]
Dane Brugler
They absolutely need a very good number nine. They have scored a record low number of goals at this point in the season. I think they're on course for something like 45 goals, which is historically bad. And yeah, they just don't really have that kind of edge up front. They don't have that presence where you feel that they are going to turn defences over and make a nuisance of themselves. So yeah, a player like Liam Dulap I think would certainly add to their options and give them maybe a bit more bit of an edge. That being said, there's caveat of being quite young and still to be proven perhaps beyond this one season. But I think he certainly would be an upgrade on what they've got at the moment.
- [02:48]
Ayo Akimwalere
That's not bad. I gave you 25 on that. But that's very good. Very good. Simon, can you do any better? Tell me why Chelsea need a good number? Nine. Of course. Let's not forget they currently have one as well.
- [02:58]
Simon Johnson
Yeah. Nicholas Jackson, who they still obviously have a lot of faith in, but at the same time they're looking for that Drogba, that Diego Costa. These legends that won Chelsea trophies and goals have dried up for Chelsea in the second half of the campaign. There's definitely a shortage of firepower up front. They need more of a presence at the top of the pitch. And Liam de Lapp is a player that has been on their wish list since sort of before the turn of the year. Is he the finish the article? No, but then he'll be joining a long and very big dressing room full of players that fit that description. But clearly the lad's got an awful lot of talent and even in a short cameo at Stamford Bridge on Sunday, he showed just why Chelsea like him.
- [03:42]
Ayo Akimwalere
All right. My timekeeping skills are awful. That was 44 seconds. You both made a good case for it. Well done.
- [03:47]
Simon Johnson
My timekeeping's even worse then.
- [03:52]
Ayo Akimwalere
Right, let us move on. Let's get into this. Let's talk about Liam Dilap, 22 years old. Laurie, you pointed out 12th Premier League goals and two assists in a struggling Ipswich team. Now, Simon, the release clause is around 30 million pounds, which is activated when Ipswich's relegation is actually confirmed. Is he a striker? And the profile of striker do you think that Chelsea need? And I guess the money's quite decent as well, if you think about it.
- [04:18]
Simon Johnson
Yeah. I mean he, you look at Chelsea's recruitment in the last, well, since the, the Todd Bowley Clear Lake consortium took over, minus the first summer window. They see that as an outlier. But all the transfers since then, it's, it's potential, it's age, its price there, yes, there have been some big, big deals in the Casado and Fernandez, but by and large they sort of, they've not been shopping in that sort of finished article market, so, so Lynn Delap, sort of the, the, the, the money involved certainly ticks that box. But he's not the only striker they're looking at. I, I, I should hasten to add, inevitably Chelsea sort of like you don't just commit to one name, but he's certainly very high up on their wish list. And you only have to go back to. I was there at Pullman Road when Ipswich got their one and only home win of the season against Chelsea, which really was part of the start of the slide for Chelsea season. And Da Lat put on a masterclass.
- [05:19]
Ayo Akimwalere
The lap against Jorgensen.
- [05:21]
Simon Johnson
And the lap fires it into the.
- [05:23]
Ayo Akimwalere
Bottom corner and gives Ipswich Town the.
- [05:26]
Simon Johnson
Lead at Portman Road. What a moment. He bullied Chelsea's defenders that day. Yes, he. Yes, he won a slightly soft penalty, but this is the kind of player that I think Chelsea lack a little bit like Jackson. Jackson's great at running in the, in the channels and some of his link up play. But Delap has a bit more physicality about him and I think Chelsea fans would like that. Although will this signing be the one that kind of gets them off the edge of their seats and gets them excited? I'm not so sure about that.
- [05:56]
Ayo Akimwalere
Is this the kind of signing that get Man United fans off their seats? I mean it's very. It's not hard to get them off their seats for anything these days. But like, let's be honest, Laurie, it sounds like good value for money. Age profile seems quite decent and if you look at what's happening up front right now at Manchester United, there's not much firepower. Would Man United fans get excited by something like this?
- [06:15]
Dane Brugler
I think so, yeah. I mean they are perhaps a little bit burnt by the Rasmus Hojlund experience so far in that he's the same age as Liam De Lapp, a little bit older. But the. Yeah, the sense is that do they really want to have another chance on a player that has done it? Yeah, for one season, certainly. I mean, 12 Premier League goals is actually more than Hojlund, Xerxe and Garnacho have scored this season, which is quite astonishing really in a team that obviously is going down. So he can create chances for himself, as Simon's alluded to there. You know, he. He's able to carry the ball from sort of midfield positions and have shots. He's got very powerful strike on him obviously, but also score those kind of goals that are from close range, which is what United haven't really had for a long time, to be honest. I mean, I guess Ronaldo came back and did it a little bit in that one season that he was really playing for United. So yeah, I think it would excite people. And certainly as you say that the value is, is where the key aspect is. You could say, well, why didn't these clubs come for Dilap when he was leaving Man City last summer, you know, Ipswich got him for sort of £20 million. I think the overall package was, I think you could props understand, you know, big, bigger teams not going for him because his previous season was at Hull in the championships of eight goals in 31 games there. So I can see the he tendency to perhaps strike immediately. That being said, obviously Jason Wilcox, the technical director at United, knows him from Manchester City Academy, you know, signed him when he was coming in from Derby county age 16. So could he have taken that chance? I don't think he had the agency then and certainly Ericsson Haag would have wanted a more, you know, proven, you know, scorer. I mean, in the end they went for Xerxy, who was doing it in Serie a little bit, but, you know, still not really the kind of record that you'd want to kind of hang your hat on as a number nine. So at least this, this, you know, player in Dilap, he's been in the Premier League scoring goals. As Simon says, that physicality up front I think is something that United have missed. And yeah, I think that's ultimately why fans would be on board with it. That being said, they probably would want an experienced one as well. Sort of being greedy.
- [08:12]
Ayo Akimwalere
Well, of course Joe Shields and Enzo Maresca, obviously Simon have got some sort of connection to Dilap from there from the time at City. And I'm just thinking about the position of both clubs right now. Look at where Manchester United are, the position in the table. Of course we know the history, we know the what comes with Manchester United and actually it's still a decent proposition for a player. But where Chelsea are right now in terms of immediacy and playing football. Do you think the choice of Chelsea vs Manchester United for a young player right now makes a lot more sense?
- [08:39]
Simon Johnson
I mean, he's in a fantastic position and not just on the pitch. I mean, he's the world's his oyster. I mean, not just Chelsea, Manchester United want him. But if it's a battle between just these two clubs, it might come down to that. It's going to be a tight one because he will be looking at both clubs and thinking, I can go in and make a big difference to both these clubs. Like both clubs are crying, they want me, they need me. It's not like there's someone that's really hard to shift. I know Chelsea absolutely love Jackson. They don't want to sort of hinder his development too much. And Jackson certainly I've liked a lot of what I've seen, but he's still a work in progress. If you're Liam Delap you're going to think I can go in there and make that shirt my own and be sort of the main man at Chelsea. And that's got to be very tempting. I think Joe she out of the two guys. Joe Shields is a very influential figure at Chelsea. He's already been able to get quite a lot of the sort of players that he's, he's worked with from Manchester City's academy. There's been a few that he's, that Chelsea have tried and not been able to get. And, and the obvious link is there it's not going to be easy because like I said, the competition is fierce and Manchester United, look, they may be maybe having sort of like the worst season in their, in their Premier League history, but they are an absolutely massive draw. And, and, and you know, regardless of their league position, whether in Europe next season, it's still going to be a very hard decision for any player to say no to a move to Old Trafford.
- [10:19]
Dane Brugler
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO akamolere.
- [10:27]
Ayo Akimwalere
As a football player at his age and someone who feels like they would like to take themselves to the next level, surely this all sort of hinges as well, not just about fees, but where the player sees himself playing first team football.
- [10:39]
Dane Brugler
I think that's a huge aspect to his decision. You know, where is he going to play regularly? He's managed to get that at ips, which, albeit he has been rotated a couple of times. I think Kieran McKenna starting George Hurst instead. I know the game against Chelsea was due to injury, but yeah, I think that United certainly would offer him regular football, but he might think, well, look at the situation there. It's, you know, a lot of players have gone there, tried and have failed and it's not necessarily conducive to, you know, propelling your career onto another level. Is there an option there to go for a kind of club where the expectation, the scrutiny isn't as high? Because I think that's a huge aspect to United's players that, you know, the eyeballs that are on you just all the time, every single move you make is analyzed. And so, you know, could you go, you look at Nottingham Forest, for example, Chris Wood, he's had an incredible season. Is he going to do that again next season? Do they need somebody up top there to, to shoulder the burden, particularly if they're in the Champions League? I mean, imagine what a draw that is. But again, away from the spotlight a little bit, obviously at Chelsea, you got the, you know, the, the carousel. I Suppose of all these young players, I mean, I'm sure he'd back himself, right, to kind of start ahead of, of any of them. But you've got to take that into consideration, I think, as well, from his point of view. So I think it's really fascinating, you know, which clubs will come to the table meaningfully and then how does he view his decision making? Because he's obviously had quite a few moves already in terms of loan moves. One of them, I think, has been a productive one. So taking that next step, though, this feels like a really pivotal moment for him in his career.
- [12:09]
Ayo Akimwalere
Is that also essential? The spotlight of Manchester United is really interesting. Eyes are on Chelsea. Can certain players, you know, go to these clubs and actually flourish? And actually maybe a Brighton, an Aston Villa, a West Ham or somewhere where you can earn your stripes and actually be the star man there without not too many eyeballs on you could actually be a really good prospect for someone like Dalap.
- [12:30]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, there is that, but I, I, I've never spoken to him, but I, I imagine that he, he would be sort of backing himself to, to go into a pressure environment like, like a Chelsea or Man United and, and make a difference. I mean, there's no doubt that just speaking about, well, Chelsea, Man United are very similar at the moment. Like basket cases of football clubs, Manchester.
- [12:54]
Dane Brugler
Do have Champions League, you know, by, by the league available to them. Quite significant. See how long that lasts.
- [12:59]
Ayo Akimwalere
Laurie, come on.
- [13:01]
Simon Johnson
Best to rule themselves out of that equation. But they're very similar in terms of, like Manchester United doing it now. They're trying to rejuvenate a dressing, go a bit younger. Chelsea a year or two ahead of them in their project. But they're showing that it's very difficult, it's easier said than done, to bring a whole bunch of young players together, but particularly in front of a fan base, an expectant fan base like Chelsea, the atmosphere is very negative on a regular basis because these players are constantly sort of, they're being compared with the legends they're being. It's like Chelsea want to be the supporters. One have been spoiled with Premier League titles and Champions leagues. So that's why they're looking at the players being signed and going, are these guys going to take us back there? That's why there'll be more sort of excitement in terms of a center forward. If, for example, an osimhen was signed, because that is kind of what Chelsea used to do would be to sort of sign the guy that that sort of costs a lot more money. Top dollar but has been there and done it and got the T shirt. So he would be the one that probably would get more fans excited. But is he the. Does he fit the sort of direction the club's going in and what the club want to do? I. I'm not so sure. They've obviously already explored alone in the past, but Liam Delap kind of fits more the way the club operate. But I think Delap, like I said at the top, I just think that he would look at Chelsea and Manchester United as an opportunity because for him, don't forget, it's not just about what he can do at club level. He'll be thinking this could help me kick on to fulfill England ambitions. So yeah, I mean, what a position to be in when you know that all these big clubs are after your services.
- [14:49]
Ayo Akimwalere
I wonder whether the spotlight's also on him in the fact that we've done a podcast on this as well. Like, you know, the dearth of really solid old school number nines out there, holds the ball up decent in the air, got a good shot on him, makes those lovely runs. How high do you think that ceiling looks for him?
- [15:03]
Dane Brugler
It's tough to say, isn't it? I mean, I've obviously watched him, you know, switch this season. I must admit I haven't seen loads of him coming through but from the moments I've seen, I mean against United, he didn't really do loads. He's pretty good but like, you know, Portman Road, it was one one he didn't actually make that much of an impact and, and in the three two that United had, when, you know, they had 10 men, that was kind of felt like his big audition really at Old Trafford. And it didn't quite work out. Just. I'm not sure why, whether Ipswich weren't quite playing to his strengths that day. But I certainly think his, I think his sort of Persona, to Simon's point, where we haven't spoken to him, but he kind of carries himself with a certain edge, a certain ruthlessness that clearly you need to become a top, top striker. And so there's that, I think, in his locker certainly. And obviously having a father who played the game as well, I think can certainly ground you and make you, you aware of the realities of football, certainly quicker than perhaps other people. And you know, he played in a, you know, a pretty straight up Stoke team, didn't they, where, you know, that kind of simplicity around your game I think can certainly be a bit of an antidote to the kind of prescribed nature of a Lot of coaching these days, so a bit of a maverick maybe. And so I, I, he is an exciting player for sure. I suppose I was sort of talking to somebody about him the other day and they did mention, you know, timo Pookie scored 11 Premier League goals in his debut Premier League season. He actually then did it again a couple of seasons after that. So he did it twice and obviously there was never the chat around him. You know, he wasn't that kind of physically imposing centre forward and he was at the older end of the spectrum. But it does sort of bring to the party that this question of doing it again is a real difficult aspect. You know, obviously doing it in a team like Ipswich, clearly, you know, chances are a premium and he's been able to score 12. It's a very good total. You know, can he do it again? Can he do it in a team where, you know, there's going to be deeper defenses or there's going to be people that know your game better in the second season? So that's a question. But I think certainly the raw ingredients that he's got, that kind of drive, that determination, that pugnaciousness up top, I think is great attributes to be admired.
- [17:12]
Ayo Akimwalere
Surely we're looking at a bit more vava voom here, Simon and Timu Pookie. Oh, come on. It is a ceiling higher than Timu Pook if that's where we're leveling it up.
- [17:19]
Simon Johnson
No. Oh, my one end podcast.
- [17:23]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, this was all a big waste of time.
- [17:25]
Ayo Akimwalere
It's Tim and Buka we should be looking at. Sorry, sorry.
- [17:29]
Dane Brugler
Well, actually looking at where he is now, he went to timber. He's 35 HJK. Yeah, yeah. Went to the MLS after, still do a job.
- [17:38]
Simon Johnson
But I think, I think Laurie made a valid point as well in there about the, the question mark over him is that he, he's playing for a side that, that by and large plays on the counter attack. It's a totally different situation when playing for Chelsea United where teams are going to sit back against, against him and suddenly there's a lot less room for him to sort of to operate. So that'll be the question mark. Is, can, can he have the same kind of impact when there's, there's a lot less space for him to work in.
- [18:14]
Dane Brugler
Foreign. This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO akamalera.
- [18:26]
Ayo Akimwalere
Let's move on because, you know, the release clause is 30 million pounds. But if United and Chelsea both trigger it, do we start seeing a bit of a bidding war, gents? You know, Add ons and maybe promise of playing time. You know, there's a lot of fees also to add on, on this, Laurie, not just the release clause as well. And if you do get a bidding war, I mean, goodness knows how much you could technically go for.
- [18:45]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I mean I, I get the impression that the, the release clause is, is, is just that. So, you know, I don't know if Ipswich could demand anymore. I don't think clubs would be willing to pay any more to Ipswich for that, you know, because it's ultimately a contractual agreement and, and you know, I think it is, you know, ideally supposed to be a very closely guarded secret and obviously it's come out into the public domain. You know, it's obviously a lot of attention has been put on it. I mean I did a story a few years ago where you know, a player was going for a release clause in a relegation actually as well and agency fees came into it. So you know, that kind of negotiation between clubs and agents, how much is it going to cost? And then also, you know, salary, you know, I think you could potentially have an auction in terms of how are you going to pay for Lynn Dilapian in terms of his wage but also how are you going to present the opportunity to him in a compelling way where he feels absolutely that he's coming to a club that he can flourish at, that he feels wanted by. So I think there's all those kind of different sort of hard and soft mechanisms by which you can persuade somebody. But yeah, the money will be an interesting thing to kind of, you know, observe once it kind of fully gets ironed out. I think ultimately Ipswich, from their point of view, I think they've known that this was a possibility the whole time. You know, if you have an agreement like this in a contract that you, when you sign a player, you know, I think everyone thought would go down again. I think they've done actually a really good job in, in keeping it for this long. But you know, clearly I think that they're, you know, alert and they're aw aware of the, the realities of the situation and maybe that was the only way they could really get in from City in the end, you know, and I think City have got a sell on as well so you've got to factor all that in. But yeah, they obviously were able to, to get him over the line and this is, I guess is what it cost ultimately. I think if he'd, you know, if he's, if IPS which were staying up, I think it'd be a Different conversation. And I do wonder actually if United would be priced out of that one.
- [20:34]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. Let's bring it down to reality, gents and I'll start with you on this one, Simon. Financial situation of both clubs and having to potentially offload players. Very recently we were talking about Chelsea offloading assets. Does that mean they're going to be buying more players? I mean there are already some who haven't even played for the club yet, still waiting.
- [20:51]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, they, they. I mean the striker is basically top of their wish list and, and that, that, that they've been working on that since January. I think it's been something that they've been plotting for since last summer. Chelsea are, there's a lot of accusations and criticisms you can label at Chelsea and understandably so, but they are, it's not like they're doing this. I know sometimes it might look like it, but it's not like they, on a whim they, they, they do have a plan in place and, and they definitely.
- [21:20]
Ayo Akimwalere
What's, what's that plan, Simon?
- [21:21]
Simon Johnson
To, to, to, to win everything in 2075.
- [21:24]
Ayo Akimwalere
Right, okay. Just, just, just, just, just checking. Just checking.
- [21:29]
Dane Brugler
So Chelsea have got a, a project as well, a mission as well. You know, United have got Mission 21, Project 150. So you've got Project 20, 2075, is it? Do you know what, the more, the.
- [21:38]
Ayo Akimwalere
More I think about it, both clubs are so alike right now.
- [21:40]
Dane Brugler
It's so bizarre.
- [21:41]
Simon Johnson
Yeah. That's why the game in a few weeks time is going to be a meeting of minds and well, you know.
- [21:48]
Dane Brugler
That Jim Radcliffe will get some ideas about the whole Dugout ticket prices, right?
- [21:52]
Simon Johnson
Well, yeah, yeah. He's one of the few that can afford it at Stanford Bridge. 12,000 pound a ticket or whatever it's going to be in the dugout club. But anyway, no, Chelsea, Chelsea are very confident they can, they've got an awful lot of players and some might say awful as well, but they have a number of players that they can sell that, that are currently on loan and also currently in the first team squad. So from what I'm, what I'm led to believe that they feel that that will be key part of the funding of a, of a center forward. They also want to sign a right footed winger and there'll be other positions that they're potentially looked at as well. But of course I think as you already alluded to, they've got players coming in already. The exciting, probably the most exciting one being Esteval Willian, the sort of star of Brazilian football which is looking like increasingly inspired bit of business. Okay. We're yet to sort of see how he'll adapt to English football, but when you've got sort of. Sort of him sort of being crowned as, like, the next Neymar and Neymar, so almost passing on the baton to him, he's a player that might actually get sort of Chelsea fans excited again and sort of thinking positively about the future. And if you're again going back to Liam Delap, you'll be sort of thinking, wow, I could be playing behind Esteban in front of rather Estevel, Willian, Cole Palmer. It's not looking too bad. That's quite an exciting sort of possibility ahead. And. And of course, there's. There's other good players that Chelsea do have, although perhaps they don't do it enough on a consistent basis.
- [23:27]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. Laurie, go on. Big stadium announcement not too long ago. You've got a new coach who will want to bring players in. How much wiggle room do we have at Manchester United who's leaving potentially, and will they need to do that to be able to bring people in?
- [23:41]
Dane Brugler
Yes, that is my understanding. I mean, they'll obviously have a bit of money to spend, you know, regardless, I think. But I don't how much exactly, because it's very difficult to penetrate the kind of psr, FFP calculations. Then United just have a cash issue anyway, where, you know, just having the actual funds to pay for things. I mean, they can obviously just dip into their sort of company credit card, their revolving credit facility, which has got sort of 300 million on it, but I think they're already 200 or so into that one. But. So, you know, anyway, there is kind of theoretically money there. It's just then, obviously paying it back and also, you know, complying with all the regulations. So they've obviously got a few players out on low. Marcus Rashford being perhaps the prime one, where, you know, Aston Villa have got a loan option for £40 million. Whether they go for that, whether he goes for that, because, again, you're going to have this issue with him agreeing terms with any new club. You know, he's on a good contract at Manchester United. Very good contract. So how does that all, you know, pan out? I don't know. Anthony on loan at rail Betis got Jaden Sancho at Chelsea. You know, are they going to. Actually, that's an interesting obligation, Simon, Are.
- [24:46]
Ayo Akimwalere
We looking at that? Can you give us an exclusive?
- [24:50]
Simon Johnson
Good timing for him to score that equalizer yesterday, but it was a fantastic goal.
- [24:54]
Dane Brugler
They should absolutely Trigger the clause on that.
- [24:57]
Ayo Akimwalere
On that.
- [24:57]
Simon Johnson
Well, I, I actually posted on social media going, well that worth the 5 million loan fee, however. However you want to describe. But yeah, that I, I do fear for him that it might be too little, too late in. In terms of Chelsea's thinking, it feels like. And it's not just about Chelsea's decision as well. Of course they have to agree a contract with Jadon Sancho and he was on a massive salary at Manchester United. So I think wherever he goes next, and I think there are other options, maybe Borussia Dortmund might be tempting for him too, given the happy memories he has of playing there. But yeah, you do sort of wonder sort of what kind of pay cut he's going to have to accept because it'd be very surprising if anyone would be willing to pay the money that Manchester United that is currently fame.
- [25:46]
Ayo Akimwalere
That's fair. That's fair. And also I'm just thinking about other people that United. Looking at Laurie, I've heard Kunya is also on that list and I'm just thinking whether or not if we include the lap in this equation, whether or not this is a player, the sample size you've seen, this is a player that could play in an Amarim system as well.
- [26:03]
Simon Johnson
Yeah.
- [26:04]
Dane Brugler
You've read it on the Athletic ao, obviously, you know, Matthias Kunya, link wrote, wrote the story on. I can't. Was it Friday or Saturday? Which was basically.
- [26:11]
Ayo Akimwalere
I was just feeding you. I was feeding you.
- [26:13]
Dane Brugler
Didn't want to be like, thank you, mate. Okay. Don't worry. I will never miss an opportunity to, you know, self promote. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, the idea, you know, I guess people might look at it and go, well, you've just been pleading poverty. How can you then, you know, in the same breath then talk about signing Matthias Kunya and Liam Delap? I think that would obviously take good sales, as we've touched on earlier, but I think it kind of blends into that idea of, okay, Liam de Lapp, 22, has done it in the Premier League already for one season, but is there an experienced player that needs to come in alongside? They obviously are massively aware of the need for goals in this team. And Matthias Kuna, you know, he scored a fantastic goal against spurs on Sunday and I think that's his 13th in the Premier League this season at 12 previous season. He's got that flare about him. He's played really well against United when he's come up against them and he has fitted into that 3, 4, 2, 1 system. So he would be the number 10, basically. So people are thinking, well, is it the lap or Kunya up front? Well, I don't think Kunya is really that number nine, is he? @ all? So is it kind of. It fits. It feels like it is a good, you know, match for that number 10 role where he gets the ball in midfield, can drive with it and, you know, hopefully set players up and also score himself. He's got a release clause as well. It's significantly higher than Liam Delaps in the contract that he signed in January when there was all that talk of him potentially going to Arsenal. And so, yeah, 62 and a half million pounds, a lot of money. Wolves would want paying in full, although you can do these installments, which I know Ratcliffe has railed against because he's still paying for Sancho and Onana and. And Hoyland and the rest of them. But it is a kind of standard practice in football these days where you spread it out over several years. So, yeah, that, that, that is an interesting one, I think, for people to look at. And the reception to that from the fans has been pretty positive, actually, you know, touched on Liam De La earlier that the reception that might get. I think the, the kind of overwhelming response has been one of excitement around the possibility that United might look at signing Matias Cunha. Yeah, yeah. Have I had enough caveats there?
- [28:16]
Ayo Akimwalere
Massive. Massive. Thank you. Did a great job. Now, something I'm interested in, Simon, and we're talking about Systems, actually, is that, you know, teams like Liverpool and Arsenal have sort of backed away from the. The lap conversation. Are they seeing something that no one else is seeing? Is it more of a systemic thing, that perhaps that's not the kind of player that would work in that particular ideology for both clubs? Or perhaps. Perhaps it's the budget or. I don't know. Like, why would Arsenal, who are looking for a number nine not go for a player like this?
- [28:46]
Simon Johnson
I think it's sort of like looking at other options, isn't it? And we've already reported, the Athletic already reported, for example, Arsenal looking at Joe Curricul. It's not like they. I don't think that's a slap in the face for Dilap. They're looking at perhaps more of a finished article, someone a bit further advanced in their development. I think what, he's 27 now, so he's. Arsenal in that position. And this is rare for me to be talking about Arsenal, but also in that position where they no longer want to wait, especially Premier League Champions League. We'll see. Of course they're in a fantastic position. But the Arsenal fans want the Premier League title. Can they really afford to sort of see if Liam Delap can get better at 22 and kick on to be. So it feels like that's why they're sort of leaning more towards sort of a slightly older guy. Although of course they're big fans of Seska. It's the same age as the last are United as are Chelsea. I mean basically, I mean, come on.
- [29:44]
Ayo Akimwalere
Chelsea just be ruled out.
- [29:45]
Dane Brugler
Just musical chairs, isn't it?
- [29:47]
Simon Johnson
Basically all these clubs are off to the side. All of the. All of the. And I suppose it might sort of come on to your. Your point there about that. There are only so many strikers these days to go and, and hence why all these clubs are all looking at them. Liverpool. Liverpool. I mean it's felt like a long time since they've had like an out and out center forward. I suppose Firmino was a. Was a tremendous fit for. For the way it work. It's all about Mo Salah in attack and who can sort of. Sort of feed off him. But essentially it's all geared towards Mo Salah, so. So maybe maybe that's why that dilap's sort of not top of their. Top of their wish list.
- [30:21]
Ayo Akimwalere
So Laurie, let's just stick with Man United, especially in that striking position. We mentioned Sesko, we mentioned dilap. Anyone else on that list that could. Could offer value for money for Manchester United or could they even go for broke?
- [30:33]
Dane Brugler
I mean, yeah, I guess they'll. We'll see how the season finishes because it feels like, you know, obviously a huge game on Thursday against Leon, which would then transform their finances if they, if they could ultimately win the Europa League and qualify for the Champions League. That absolutely adjusts the picture of what they're able to do. So it is with that in mind. Although I don't think they can really plan with that eventuality. You know, it feels less likely to happen than. Than it will at the moment. So. But that might ultimately dictate, you know, the mood around the place and ultimately, yeah, what they can do financially Cesco is one that they've tried, you know. Well, they've certainly looked at a few times when he was at Domsale, you know, I think he was being offered for €2 and United were bid in 1.1, then 1.2 and then ultimately went to the Red Bull group. So they, they did well there and then again they looked at him again in 10 Hog's first season, he didn't really feel it was the right moment for him to be the number nine at Manchester United seems quite an astute point to make there from him at that age. And again, even before they signed Xerxy last summer, they had a look at him and he didn't want to move. So, you know, I wonder whether that ultimately does come to fruition or whether it's kind of like, well, you've tried a few times then give it up at this point. But, but Victor Osserman, I mean, Simon mentioned him earlier. He's. He's on the market obviously. I think the wages is. Is quite a big thing that he's going to be wanting, you know, when he leaves. Napoli's obviously tearing it up at Galatasa at the moment and I suppose the only way that would work really for United if, you know, if they did have really tight finances and the, the sales weren't as good as they would hope, then maybe you have someone like Alejandro Garnacho come into the equation. Napoli made a bid for him in the January market. 40 million. United would have a view on that, wouldn't they, if they ultimately fe that's the right kind of trade. Would Garnacho go for it? I don't know obviously. Would Osserman go for it? That's sort of a little bit up in the air, but yeah, I think he has done a few social media posts as anywhere. He's hinted at United and kind of toyed with the idea anyway. But I'm sure it's all fun and games. But yeah, he, he's perhaps, you know, he has got that X factor. He's done it for season on season in Serie A. He's doing it in Turkey now, you feel like, and he is the sort of finished article really. So whether they ultimately sort of go him, I don't know, but there are a few options. But I do sense that DILAP is certainly one that they are is high on their agenda.
- [32:44]
Ayo Akimwalere
All right, gents, let's leave it there. You can hear more from Laurie on our United pod, talk of the Devils and also more from Simon on our Chelsea pod straight out of Cobham. Thanks for listening.
- [32:55]
Simon Johnson
We are back tomorrow the Athletic FC podcast network.