The Athletic FC Podcast: "Mark Clattenburg on Refereeing Conspiracies"

Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
Guests: Mark Clattenburg (Former Premier League and FIFA Referee), Rory Smith (Senior Football Writer at The Athletic)

Introduction to Refereeing and Career Highlights

The episode begins with host Ayo Akinwolere introducing Mark Clattenburg and Rory Smith. Ayo sets the stage by highlighting the evolving pressures referees face in modern football, especially with the advent of VAR (Video Assistant Referee) and increased scrutiny from fans and media.

Mark Clattenburg shares his journey, emphasizing his rapid rise to Premier League referee at the age of 29—a notably young age for the role. He recounts refereeing significant matches, including the 2012 Olympic Games final between Mexico and Brazil, and the pinnacle year of 2016 when he officiated the FA Cup, Champions League, and European Championship finals all in one year.

"In 2016, I had the chance to referee the FA Cup, the Euro Championship final, and the Champions League final in the same year. It was incredible to achieve them all in one go."
[03:26] Mark Clattenburg

Challenges and Scrutiny in Refereeing

Mark delves into the immense pressure referees face, both on and off the pitch. He highlights a pivotal moment early in his Premier League career—the Merseyside Derby—where he missed a clear penalty, leading to significant personal and professional repercussions. This incident, along with accusations of racism during the Auburn McKellen controversy, led Mark to question his career path.

"The Auburn McKellen situation was probably the toughest part of my life. Being accused of something I hadn't done took a lot out of me mentally and physically."
[10:16] Mark Clattenburg

Rory Smith reflects on how media ratings influenced both referees and players, noting the transient nature of newspaper critiques compared to the lasting impacts of social media opinions today.

"Back then, if you weren’t at the match, a small newspaper cutting might say I was wrong, but it was forgotten. Now, one negative comment on social media can haunt a referee indefinitely."
[13:24] Rory Smith

The Impact of Social Media and Modern Scrutiny

Mark discusses the transformation refereeing has undergone with the rise of social media. Unlike the past, where criticism was fleeting, today's instant and permanent feedback can be overwhelmingly negative, often from "keyboard warriors."

"Social media doesn’t allow referees to escape criticism. Millions can voice displeasure over one decision, making the job even more challenging."
[11:51] Mark Clattenburg

Advisory Role with Nottingham Forest

In a significant career move, Mark returns to the Premier League in an advisory capacity with Nottingham Forest. He explains that his role was to bridge gaps between the club and refereeing authorities, emphasizing the profound impact refereeing decisions have on a club's morale and performance.

"Working with Nottingham Forest gave me a different perspective on how refereeing decisions affect not just players but everyone in the club, from the coaching staff to the owners."
[19:09] Mark Clattenburg

Mark recounts specific instances where he had to mediate conflicts, such as addressing complaints about refereeing decisions that adversely affected Nottingham Forest's standing in the league. He underscores the importance of maintaining professional integrity and the difficulties that arise when external pressures and media scrutiny come into play.

"I tried to help Nottingham Forest by clarifying that certain decisions were fair, but the external pressure and media scrutiny made it a tough environment to navigate."
[22:11] Mark Clattenburg

Refereeing Conspiracies and Integrity

A central theme of the episode revolves around conspiracy theories in refereeing. Mark contrasts the refereeing landscape in England with countries like Greece and Egypt, where he observed significant influence from club owners and federations, leading to biased officiating.

"In Greece and Egypt, club owners exerted considerable pressure on referees to favor certain teams, creating an environment ripe for conspiracy theories. In England, the Premier League's independence helps mitigate this, but foreign ownership has introduced new complexities."
[44:27] Mark Clattenburg

Rory and Mark discuss how tweets and public statements from clubs, such as Nottingham Forest's derogatory remarks about referee Stuart Atwell, fuel conspiracy theories. They emphasize that such accusations, even if unfounded, erode the integrity of the game and undermine referees' authority.

"The appearance of integrity is just as important as actual integrity. Even unfounded accusations can damage the perception of fairness in the game."
[33:53] Rory Smith

David Coote's Ban and Its Implications

Towards the end of the episode, the discussion shifts to the recent suspension of referee David Coote. Mark expresses a detached perspective, noting his limited personal connection with Coote but recognizing the broader implications for the refereeing community.

"David Coote's situation is unfortunate. It highlights the lack of support referees might receive when personal issues intersect with their professional roles."
[47:50] Mark Clattenburg

Rory adds that Coote's experiences underscore the human challenges referees face, particularly regarding personal identity and societal acceptance.

"It's incredibly sad to see someone who dedicated his life to refereeing lose everything due to personal issues being exposed. It reminds us that referees are human beings with their own struggles."
[51:28] Rory Smith

Referees as Humans and Future Endeavors

The conversation shifts to the human aspect of refereeing. Both Mark and Rory advocate for recognizing referees as individuals rather than mere officials, emphasizing the emotional and psychological toll the job can take.

Mark also shares his foray into entertainment, notably his role as a referee on the UK version of "Gladiators." He reflects on the positive experiences and how it allowed him to bond with his family, contrasting the supportive environment of entertainment with the often hostile environment in football.

"Being a referee on Gladiators gave me a chance to bond with my family and experience a different kind of recognition, free from the constant scrutiny of football."
[56:48] Mark Clattenburg

Final Thoughts: The Future of Refereeing and Football Culture

Rory and Mark conclude by discussing the future of football refereeing amidst rising conspiracy theories and the increasing influence of influencers and media on the sport. They stress the need for maintaining integrity and supporting referees as individuals to preserve the essence of the game.

"Maintaining the appearance of integrity is crucial. Without it, fans may start doubting the legitimacy of match outcomes, which can undermine the entire sport."
[40:24] Rory Smith

Conclusion

The episode offers a comprehensive look into the complexities of modern refereeing, the pressures of high-stakes matches, and the pervasive impact of media and social platforms. Mark Clattenburg provides valuable insights from his extensive career, highlighting both the achievements and the profound challenges referees face in today’s football landscape.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Mark Clattenburg on achieving major finals in 2016:
  "In 2016, I had the chance to referee the FA Cup, the Euro Championship final, and the Champions League final in the same year."
  [03:26]

• Mark Clattenburg on the Auburn McKellen situation:
  "The Auburn McKellen situation was probably the toughest part of my life."
  [10:16]

• Rory Smith on the impact of social media:
  "Now, one negative comment on social media can haunt a referee indefinitely."
  [13:24]

• Mark Clattenburg on conspiracy theories in Greece and Egypt:
  "In Greece and Egypt, club owners exerted considerable pressure on referees to favor certain teams."
  [44:27]

• Rory Smith on the appearance of integrity:
  "The appearance of integrity is just as important as actual integrity."
  [33:53]

• Mark Clattenburg on David Coote's situation:
  "David Coote's situation is unfortunate. It highlights the lack of support referees might receive when personal issues intersect with their professional roles."
  [47:50]

• Mark Clattenburg on his role in Gladiators:
  "Being a referee on Gladiators gave me a chance to bond with my family and experience a different kind of recognition."
  [56:48]

This episode provides an in-depth exploration of the multifaceted challenges faced by referees, the impact of technological advancements like VAR, and the societal pressures exacerbated by modern media. Mark Clattenburg's candid reflections offer listeners a unique perspective on maintaining integrity and professionalism in the high-stakes world of football refereeing.