David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (1:25)

The Athletic fc Hi there.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (1:28)

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. I'm Adam Leventhal. David Ornstein reports that Chelsea boss Enzo Maresca is high on the list to replace Pep Guardiola. With the anticipation of this being his last season at City, it is big, big news. So how did we get here? Let's find out. Well, I'm joined by our football correspondent David Ornstein, who broke the story. Senior football writer. Okay. And Jack Pip Brook. We're going to be getting the take of our Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson a little bit later on in the show. But David, let's start with you. For people who haven't read that exclusive, just give us the top lines.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (2:08)

Yeah. Hi, Adam. Essentially, Enzo Maresca is high among the candidates Manchester City are considering in case Pep Guardiola leaves the club next summer. It's a big if because Guardiola is tied down until the summer of 2020. But among people I speak to, there's a growing consensus that he could well go at the end of this campaign. That's not set in stone, and I don't think a decision will be made on his part and. And in relation to his situation until much closer towards the end of the season and the summer. However, City, as I understand it, are advancing contingency planning for the possibility of that outcome materializing. And within that contingency planning, Mareska is believed to figure prominently. He won't be the only possibility. There will be numerous names, I'm sure, if and when Guardiola is going to be leaving that role. And furthermore, City will have done this in the past because there was uncertainty that Guardiola was going to stay on a number of occasions before now, most recently the deal he signed in November 2020. And he tends to leave his decisions pretty late. But our information is that this work is. Is being stepped up, and in that sense it's quite significant. And also with Maresca, I think maybe that's taken people by surprise because he's working at Chelsea and he's under contract there until the summer of 29 with an option to extend by 12 months. That said, he has admirers in the City hierarchy. He was there over two stints as a youth coach and then working under Guardiola at senior level. In between that, he was head of Palmer and then he went away to Leicester and Chelsea. But, you know, he does have a lot of support, from what I hear. And then there's the added element to this, which is the bizarre, slightly cryptic recent comments by Maresca at Chelsea, which has cast uncertainty on his position, and he's declined the opportunity to clarify what he meant by saying he didn't feel supported. And so suddenly we have a. A bit of a situation to talk about.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (4:26)

Yeah, if it was on Facebook, it would be. It's complicated at the moment. Jack, let me just get your take on both elements of this. First of all, are you surprised that it seems that the time is ebbing away for Pep Guardiola or not? And at the same time, the second part of the question, are you not that surprised that it's Maresca that's in.

Jack Pip Brook (Football Correspondent) (4:48)

The mix on the first question? I have slightly mixed feelings. Like, it's, as everyone knows, speculation about will this be Guardiola's last season has really been kind of par for the course for years now. You know, he. Remember he. He started there in 2016, and when he joined, I think the Expectation was, you know, he. I think he'd done, what, four years at Barcelona, three years at Bayern Munich. And so the longer he's gone on at City, the more people have thought, oh, maybe this will be the year. This will be the year. That all said, right now, City are probably in the best shape they've been for, actually since before he signed this contract a year ago. And he's really. He's kind of pivoted to a new style and rebuilt a new. And I guess maybe that has left some people thinking maybe he wants to see this kind of new team through and give it to the conclusion of his current contract. So, yeah, mixed feelings on that one. And then in terms of Maresca, yeah, I think I am surprised, to be honest. Like, if you'd asked me this morning who I thought the next. The likeliest candidates for the next Manchester City manager might be, I guess, like a lot of people, I might have said, maybe Iriola or Vincent Kompany, if he could be tempted away from Bayern Munich or. Oh, I'm not. I'm not. I wouldn't really be sure. I mean, maybe people will be looking to see what happens to Xabi Alonso at Real Madrid, perhaps. So, yeah, I think in that sense it is surprising, but I think the reason it's surprising is not because Moresco, there's no judgment on Maresco. He's obviously done pretty well and obviously has those CFG connections. It's the fact.

Oli (Football Analyst) (6:10)

It's just.

Jack Pip Brook (Football Correspondent) (6:11)

It would, like. It would always be unusual for a manager to move from one big six Premier League team to another big six Premier League team. I actually can't. I mean, unless I'm. Maybe I'm missing a good example, but I can't think of a precedent. Like, obviously, big Premier League teams have got managers from other Premier League teams in the past. Like, I don't know, Moyes going from Everton to Manchester United or Hodgson going from Fulham to Liverpool, or Brendan Rodgers going from Swansea to Liverpool, but from one big Premier League team to another, that would be very. That would be very interesting in box office and Oli.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (6:41)

Therefore, it's so intriguing that this has come out, considering what Enzo Maresca said this weekend. Just gone, you know, the worst 48 hours I've had in football. Feeling not supported by the people around. Around him. What's your sort of feeling on what's going on here?

Oli (Football Analyst) (7:00)

I think most of us are still trying to get to the bottom of what Mareska was talking about last weekend when he talked about not being supported and why it was the worst 48 hours of his tenure. Could he be manoeuvring or angling for a new contract, a better contract? Does he feel he deserves more money, more backing, more control over transfers? I don't know, but I'd be more interested in David's take. I think David would probably be the one who would have a better sense of whether the two things could be linked. But from a more outside point of view, I just find myself thinking, well, is this a case of the stars aligning for Enzo Maresca and Manchester City?

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (7:38)

Let's throw it to David then, Oli, because, you know, you mentioned it. Let's find out what he's got to say about it. You know, there are elements, other elements in this story. David, as we've spoken about, those comments from Mareska, he's got a new agent. He didn't get maybe a big blockbuster contract after winning the Conference League. Okay, maybe you don't deserve it after that, but the club World cup, you know, a new big tournament. Take us inside this story as much as you can.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (8:06)

Yeah, it's probably wrong for us to allege that the comments relate directly to interest from Manchester City or anybody else, or maybe a new contract, or maybe a departure, full stop. But it's hard for the mind not to stray in that direction and wonder what if? Because the timing feels a bit uncanny. I've been aware of Manchester City having some interest in Maresca for some time, so it's not fresh, but you check with as many people as you can, trusted sources on the veracity of that. And of course, the Guardiola element to this story as well. Because if he is continuing until 2027, then it's largely a moot point. And despite us having been in this position before, with Guardiola and people thinking he was going to go last time, by the way, let's be clear on that. This is not entirely new as a notion, but I personally have never had it so resounding from so many people that it's going to be the end of this season and they are well placed. And yeah, as the story says, outside of City on the whole, in terms of our sourcing, but you sort of work very hard in our position to gain a. A real broad understanding of what's happening from people who are better connected than us. And that's why the work that City are putting in is kind of advancing, because it's a very real possibility, even if a decision isn't taken until later. But in a way, the Guardiola Part needs to be put to one side because none of us know with, with real certainty even those that expect him to go could move in a different direction. So that brings us back to the work that City are doing and, and potential alternatives if indeed he does depart. And when we're looking at Mareska and those comments he made, if he's not willing to clarify it, naturally the discourse is going to develop and people are going to sort of make their own judgments. It hasn't been denied that he has got some issues with his superiors. All of the people involved, Mareska and those individuals are free to deny it on or off the record and clarify. And each time he's been given the chance, he has only pointed to the fact that he loves the fans. In his own words. We know there that it's a process led club. The sporting directors kind of are in charge of everything. In a similar way to maybe Liverpool, in a different way to maybe an Arsenal, a Newcastle, maybe a Manchester City, which sees the, the coach so much more influential and in a position of power. I speak to people around the game who, you know, have seen Maresca come in from Leicester Championship Club who had just been promoted to the Premier League under him and we didn't hear that much in the, in the first year and then he wins, he picked up the Conference League, the club World cup, he's led Chelsea into the Champions League and, and there are people I speak to in the game who feel that would have emboldened him to, to speak out, to be more confident, to, to voice his views in a stronger way than he has in the past, in and amongst all of that in the autumn. So in recent times, as you point out, Adam, he has started working with the so called super agent George Mendez. Now that will be in part designed to help or in large part designed to help his managerial journey, wherever that may be taking him. But clearly it leads the mind to wonder if he's speaking like this, if he's making moves like that, when we know Chelsea are a process led club that as and when head coaches leave, there will be somebody else brought in. It's, it's not the most traumatic experience for them. We saw it with Pochettino. So that all paints a bit of a picture of what is perhaps going on here. And in and amongst all of that, I don't think City's admiration for Maresca is any surprise given how well they know him. And it would be a stunning maneuver if, you know, as Jack points out, a coach moved from one of the top clubs, very top clubs in the Premier League to another so there is some logic to all of this. A lot of it is theoretical and potential. You could call it speculative. But I guess in our position the job is to attempt to put these pieces together with as good a sourcing as possible to present the reality of what's happening. And that's led to our story today, and I'm sure we'll hear a lot more of it in the days and weeks ahead.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (12:46)

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Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (15:25)

Jack Manchester City Chelsea on January 4 has an extra subplot to it. Now, how disruptive do you think this is going to be for both clubs now?

Jack Pip Brook (Football Correspondent) (15:37)

I don't know how disruptive it will be. I mean, I'm sure both managers will have to face lots of questions about this at the pre match press conference and it will be a good chance for each of them to show how much they respect the other one. Which you know, managers like to do sometimes in press conferences. There'll be a lot of guys, Enzo Maresco, wow. From Pep. But I don't know how actually disruptive it will be to game preparations. I often feel with this kind of thing, like I think in the media we kind of maybe overestimate the extent to which players, players can, players can just stay focused on the actual football and the daily routine of training. But yeah, it will definitely dominate the pre match press conferences.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (16:15)

I just wanted to throw one over to Oli about Pep Guardiola's input in his eventual successor because he won't be going on forever. He's already out, you know, stayed longer than at any other club where he's coached and he has spoken effusively in recent times actually of Enzo Maresca and he has of other coaches over the years. I remember Roberto de Zerbi was one he was really fond of and you could say that when he spoke well of, of Maresca, he was only answering a question. But he answered it emphatically and, and I wonder if he has input into a decision like this, even though he would be the departing coach, I guess given his legendary status, that he would.

Oli (Football Analyst) (16:53)

If you look at the last three really big high profile departures, not sackings, but sort of successions moving on from big Premier League clubs. You look at Alex Ferguson leaving Manchester United in 2013, Wenger leaving Arsenal in 2018, Klopp leaving Liverpool in 20, all were handled very differently with Ferguson. It was almost like he hand picked David Moyes as his successor. That is not the way to do it. I really don't think that is the way to do it. With Arsenal, it was very much a process. Lots of interviews weren't there before they got to hiring Unai Emery eventually. And with Liverpool it was. I think it was some discussion with Klopp, but he didn't have an input at all in terms of actually deciding who it was going to be. Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards simply sort of picked his brain a bit about it while looking at the data, eventually ending up with Arna slots. So three different ways of doing it. And I'd expect Manchester City, a club with as many intelligent and sensible people running it, football people, to steer well away from that idealistic notion of manager handpicks his own successor. I don't think that can ever really work. I would expect them, first of all, to have done a lot of work on this in the past. In a column I've just written on the subject, I mentioned that at various points in the past, because Guardiola's departure has been talked about for so long, at one point it seemed like Patrick Vieira might be the sort of heir apparent. Then Mikel Arteta and I would have felt early in Arteta's time at Arsenal, there would have been a time when Arteta was doing very well in terms of the building aspect, but not to the point where he was actually challenging City. I would have thought at that point maybe it would have been the right move for him and for City, for him to be the guy who would take over from Guardiola. But it feels like Arteta has now taken Arsenal to such a level that it's unthinkable that he would be. That he would leave or even be a realistic target for City because he's so committed to Arsenal. But Mareska seems. I don't know when we're talking about Maresca, to me he would seem gettable. And it's partly because I think Chelsea are less aggressive in what they do. You know, it would have been unthinkable anybody taking Jose Mourinho from Chelsea in the Abramovich era. But Chelsea's entire model in the last few years has been about. It's been about selling. Selling players, often to clubs like Manchester City, like Arsenal, like Manchester United. They sold players to. If you take the sort of approach that they have to player recruitment, where they sign inexperienced players with great potential and let them sort of learn on the job and learn from mistakes and grow and grow, what they do then in some cases is sell those players. So if you applied that principle to a manager And I'm not saying they will, but if you did apply that approach to a manager, they might well take the decision. Okay, well, we'll let Mareska go on and we'll replace him with somebody again younger and more experienced, more inexperienced. I'm slightly being playful with that. But when Chelsea's whole model has seemed to be less about winning the biggest prizes and challenging for the biggest prizes, by which I mean Premier League and Champions League rather than club World cup and Conference League, I think a manager such as Maresca could feasibly look at it and think, well, I'll have a much better chance of success there.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (20:24)

Yeah, there are many people who already saying Liam Racinha at Strasbourg is going to be a Chelsea manager of the future, whether it's in the immediate or medium or longer term shows their contingency plans, like all well organized top clubs will be in place in one way shape or form. And I think Manchester City, it's completely understandable that you would be doing this work. It's smart, it's laudable. It's smart that they extended Guardiola by two years where many people thought it would be one. Otherwise you may have found yourself in a situation like we had with Guardiola just recently, where everybody thought he was going and it was down to the final month. Same with Jurgen Klopp. After he announced he was leaving, it was a frenzy of speculation for those months in towards the end of the season. I just wanted to pick up on one thing Ollie said, you know, you mentioned Vieira, you've mentioned company. Jack Arteta was definitely someone I think I heard City had been looking at before he signed his new contract with Arsenal. In an amid that period where Pep Guardiola could well have been leaving, he was the favorite to get the England job. I think the FA had some encouragement at one point, but ultimately it didn't happen. He signed a new contract, they went for Tuchel and now we're talking about Maresca. Of course they'll have a number of candidates from different places, but I don't know what you guys think on this CFG dalliance and, and, and, and the fact that people they know and have worked with before and are familiar with the style of play, the system, the model and Pep Guardiola, especially when it's going to be such an enormous departure when it happens one day, because everything was built around him and the Catalan ex prepared for his arrival. The staff in this day and age, it's maybe even more fundamental than a Ferguson or Wenger Departing.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (22:15)

Jack, do you need a juggernaut coming into this job? Or as David said, do you need knowledge of the environment? What's more important? Because Pep was a big gun, wasn't he?

Jack Pip Brook (Football Correspondent) (22:25)

That's a great question. Yeah, Pep was a big gun, but Pep, Pep came into a club that had basically been rebuilt for him and he had total control and was working with some very close old friends of his and was able, you know, was able to kind of dictate everything over the course of a long period of time. And now that everything is in place and it runs in basically in Guardiola's image, my sense is that you probably don't need a juggernaut. I think you pro. You know, unless they want a big. A big change in direction, I suspect they probably don't. It would actually make more sense to have somebody who comes in and knows the system and knows how the club operates and can keep things moving smoothly. Obviously, there's no. You can't replace that size of personality that Guardiola has. But you can. If you have somebody who knows how it all works, and knows and knows the expectations and the strengths and the weaknesses of how they do things, then maybe you can just proceed on with a kind of, you know, what you might call an internal candidate. Even though in this particular instance, Enzo Marescu will be coming from outside the club.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (23:28)

Well, Jack, your number is up. You're going to be leaving us and you're going to be replaced by Simon Johnson, who covers Chelsea deeply. And we'll get his thoughts next.

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Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (26:52)

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (26:57)

So with us now is our Chelsea correspondent, Simon Johnson. How's this gone down at Chelsea? Simon Maresca being in the mix for Manchester City considering the week that you've had covering what he's been saying.

Simon Johnson (Chelsea Correspondent) (27:09)

Well, what's happened, Adam? Obviously the story that David's broke is quite fresh, but let's just say that the reaction is pretty much, per my analysis below, David's story that on one hand he's contracted to 2029 with a club club option to 2030. So Chelsea certainly hold the cards there. But also this is the reason why Chelsea have the structure they have, that they don't have a manager with all the power. If anything, the structure is the power and the head coach is just there to coach the team. So let's just see how this one plays out. Of course, we don't know sort of whether he will end up going to Manch, but given the events over the last few days, of which I've been privileged to be a party of, every press conference, we have to be careful that we don't do a two plus two equals five scenario. But of course the timing of all this will inevitably provoke speculation that perhaps this is why Mareska's been acting up. And now I'm going to another press conference on Friday where these questions will be put to him, obviously with a new change of direction.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (28:22)

Well, and he's been doing a sterling job in saying nothing, having, you know, thrown a grenade into the situation at the weekend. Do you think these links and like you say, people maybe doing some bad maths is going to make his situation quite difficult now?

Simon Johnson (Chelsea Correspondent) (28:41)

It certainly won't help because for this reason, and look, it wasn't. He wasn't helping himself. Anyway, regardless of this great story from David, because Chelsea's a tough enough job as it is and when you start moaning about things and not clarifying what you mean, it inevitably makes people question you more. It questions how things are going on at Chelsea, the relationship behind the scenes. I mean, everything I've been told is that this outburst of his last Saturday after the Everton game caught virtually everyone by surprise, apart from the man himself. So is there an agenda behind what he said or is it a bit like what Maresca has shown before? Both as Leicester head coach when they were top of the championship and he got wind of the fact that Leicester fans weren't happy with his style of play and he said, if people have a problem with the idea, I leave. And other rants that he's had at Chelsea. Can he handle a job like Manchester City if he has these kind of outbursts as Chelsea and Leicester head coach?

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (29:42)

But.

Simon Johnson (Chelsea Correspondent) (29:43)

But I mean, it's fantastic. I'm not sure it's great for my sleep pattern, but it's absolutely a fantastic development. Which, which, yeah, I can't wait to cover over the next few months, see what happens.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (29:52)

Oli, let's deal with the question that Simon has posed. Is this a job Manchester City that Maresca can do?

Oli (Football Analyst) (30:00)

I find it fascinating because I feel like we go through spells with Maresca at Chelsea, where they've been very streaky, haven't they? Over the 18 months, it's been maybe four or five good games for a vice versa or three or four bad games. And it's been, you know, they ended up achieving all their. All their objectives right at the end of last season, secured Champions League on the final day, came from behind to beat Real Batiste in the Conference League final, and then obviously won the club World cup, which was a fantastic bonus, really. But I feel like half the time with Mareska at Chelsea, people are asking whether the club have put too much faith in it him like they have, perhaps with some of the players. To me, the jewelry is still out in some ways on that as an appointment after 18 months. I know you can list the achievements, but I don't think they were meant to have won eight of the first 16 Premier League matches this season and be eight points off the lead. And I think they've had the moments this season where you've looked at them. Perhaps the Tottenham match, I thought they were brilliant. The Liverpool match, they were excellent. The Barcelona match and the arsenal game with 10 men. You could say you could look at those performances and think, yeah, you can really see something coming together here. But a lot of the other games, you're thinking, well, this is just still a bit of a mishmash. I don't know, it would seem to me it felt like a leap of faith from Chelsea when they pointed at him. And I feel like it would be a leap of faith from Manchester City if they were to appoint him as Pep Guardiola's successor. I'm not saying he's doing a bad job at Chelsea. He's definitely not. And I think he's a better manager now and a more experienced, better qualified manager now than when he took the job. But I feel like the narrative with Mariska changes so quickly that as somebody who thinks that the jury is still out on that appointment 18 months in, I'm certainly not convinced it would be the right appointment for Manchester City. But I think the interesting thing is that he's worked under Guardiola before. He knows the system. He's worked at cfg. But. But you look across European football now, and this absolutely speaks volumes for the influence of Guardiola, Chelsea's coach. Arsenal's coach, PSG's coach have all worked under him. Vincent Kompany, obviously, Bayern Munich, Xabi Alonso, Real Madrid, both played for him. Cesc Fabregas, Thiago Alcantara, who's Barcelona's assistant coach, also really, really highly rated. These are also guys who've played under him. And it just feels like his influence is so enormous that there are these many kind of Pep Guardiola wannabes or Pep Guardiola clones almost emerging. And I think the difficulty with that is that I don't think any of them are likely to be as good as him.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (32:51)

There's also an interesting point here in that by the time next summer comes round, if Guardiola goes then or the summer after 2027 or even beyond, City, I'm sure would love to keep him. It's going to be a minimum of 10 years since Manchester City last made a head coach appointment. So it's going to be seismic for Kalduna Al Mubarak at the top on behalf of the ownership in Sheikh Mansour, Ferran Soriano, the chief executive and crucially in this, Hugo Vayana, the new sporting director who's taken over from Cheeky Baghirestain and obviously Baghirostein was part of that former Barcelona enclave that bought Pep in. Now, Van is going to have his thoughts and his preferences in this and it will be a really interesting test for him as well, because, yeah, for all of the Pep disciples out there, and, you know, it doesn't mean that the club will decide to go down that route. And that's one of the many fascinating narratives in all of this.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (33:57)

David, just on where this piece of the jigsaw fits in, how much do you think the 100 charges against Manchester City is part of Pep Guardiola's thinking? And I know that that's going to take quite a lot of guesswork because you don't know exactly what's going on in his mind, but it's a big thing and it's been dominating in the background at Manchester City, hasn't it?

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (34:21)

Yeah. The only thing I can say from all of my conversations around this topic is that that hasn't come up once. The 115 charges which Manchester City vehemently deny we still don't have results and outcome for. And so everybody's waiting. Pep Guardiola spoke in the past to sort of suggest he would stick with City, whatever, as long as he's not been lied to. And even if they got relegated or what, you know, he was quite strong on that. Previously. And, and I guess that is the sort of cloud that, that lingers for the game and for many supporters who seem to caveat much of what they talk about City with the fact that this is still unresolved. But in relation to Guardiola's future and the managerial situation so far, that is something that hasn't come up in, in a single chat I've had. And when you see the signings Manchester City are making and yep, okay, a lot of staff have left, but many have come at the same time. It doesn't seem to be, to my eyes and, and ears, like some kind of impediment to working for Manchester City at this point in time. It really does feel sort of business as usual and they can't go any other way, that they're absolutely adamant that they will be vindicated and they've got an irrefutable body of evidence. And so it just remains hypothetical, whatever anyone thinks about it. And, and that appears to be the way that Pep Guardiola has always operated. Right now, I don't see if there's a departure being looked at for next summer considered candidates, a process, due diligence that, that will be prominent in the minds of Manchester City. Whether it is in or those are potential candidates, I'm not sure.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (36:09)

And Simon, just a final word to you. You've obviously had a surprising week with, with Enzo Maresca and what he's been saying and you said that it came as a surprise to people within the club. What do you think's more likely now that he ends up leaving early from Chelsea, signing a new contract or just staying there and then being appointed Manchester City's successor to Pep Guardiola? I know they are all big things, but what do you think's the most likely avenue?

Oli (Football Analyst) (36:40)

Adam.

Simon Johnson (Chelsea Correspondent) (36:42)

Thanks for giving me the hospital pass. I wouldn't be enormously surprised, and this is just an opinion everybody, before everyone overreacts, I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves. I think you have to be very careful when you play these kind of games. And as I said at the start, and what I mean by games, I'm talking about the comments he made, not referring to this story in particular, because we don't know what Mareska thinks of it yet and we'll find out on Friday. But I just think when you start sort of saying things publicly, and I refer to, for example, asking for a center back when he's not in charge of recruitment at Chelsea, like everyone knows the score of who runs things at Chelsea. I just think it feels like Chelsea could sort of say, well, we'll just find someone a bit like with Pochettino, that the reason they moved on for Pochettino, that will sign up for the very structure they put in place. Now, of course there is the caveat to this argument that Chelsea will actually think, well, we are making strides with Maresca and do we really want the possible embarrassment of him going to a rival and leaving us with a bloody nose, given that obviously Chelsea hope to be going toe to toe with Manchester City for major trophies. But you've asked me the question. I'm going to lean slightly towards him leaving at the end of the season, but of course it depends on whether he's got a place to go to and whether Man City are the club that the move for him. But he has been linked with other clubs as well back in Italy too, so Morescu doesn't say an awful lot most of the time. Which means that when he does say something, as he did the other day, you you really think it's something of note, that it's significant. It's not just him going AWOL for no reason at all.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (38:32)

And we shall see what he says in his next news conference. It'll be interesting whatever happens. Simon, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks to David, to Ollie, to Jack earlier on as well. And don't forget we will have any more developments on this story at Manchester City, at Chelsea and beyond on the Athletic, and we'll catch you next time. Thanks for joining us.

Adam Leventhal (Podcast Host) (38:58)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stavro and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and A.D. moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company Production.

David Ornstein (Senior Football Writer) (39:31)

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