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- [00:00]
TurboTax Narrator
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- [01:01]
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- [01:05]
Ayo Akimolere
And there it was.
- [01:06]
David Ornstein
That hologram trading card. One of the rarest.
- [01:09]
TurboTax Narrator
The last one I needed for my set.
- [01:10]
David Ornstein
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
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Ayo Akimolere
One of a kind.
- [01:14]
David Ornstein
Ebay had it and now everyone's asking.
- [01:17]
Ayo Akimolere
Ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car.
- [01:21]
David Ornstein
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TurboTax Narrator
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- [01:35]
David Ornstein
Can we sleep cooler?
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- [02:04]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Well, the January transfer window has been relatively quiet by Premier League standards, but does that mean we're in for a big summer in the transfer and managerial markets? All right, in with us today we have David Ornstein, Tim Spears. We've also got Jay Harris. Well, Premier League clubs have spent a combined £397 million in January. That's just shy of last year's figure of 403 million pounds, yet nowhere near the 3.1 billion spent last summer. Still, there were some big deals between Premier League clubs as well, including Semenio and Gajeta City, Brennan Johnson and Strand Larsen to Crystal Palace. How do you assess this window?
- [02:53]
David Ornstein
David it was okay, a bit underwhelming from a purist point of view. It was solid, if unspectacular. It started with more talk about managerial changes and that was the focus of a lot of our work. And then, yeah, you mentioned Semeno. Big and good deal. Same with Gahey, Conor Gallagher I'd throw into the mix and Strand Larsen towards the end, but after that early flurry it sort of took a bit of a lullaby and then obviously it picks up towards deadline day because work needs to be done. But when you're talking about a striker who's been on the bench at Wolves, I'm actually much more enthused by this signing than many are. And even with the price and we might come on to talk about it, I think that's a good recruit for Crystal palace and probably a good deal for Wolves as well, and a decent move for the player. To summarize my thoughts is that the summer is becoming ever more important to the clubs, ever more spectacular to the industry, to the fans, to the observers. That's where the focus of recruitment work is going in terms of the actual finance and squad planning, and this increasingly seems to be an emergency period. Numerous contacts I've spoken to throughout the industry feel that the January market should be condensed to just a couple of weeks. If you need to get a little bit done here or there, then do it in like sort of 10, 14 days. But to have it over the course of it was actually just over a month this time, because it closed on 2 February was excessive and it was attritional. It hasn't been that nice, frankly, and I'm not that sad to see the end of it. I know clubs, players, many agents and individuals working within that sphere share that view. However, it doesn't stop us building excitement towards the summer, which that market has just become blockbuster now and I suspect it will be again, even though there's a World cup in amongst it which causes a bit of disruption. I'm actually looking forward to it once I've had a lie down in the dark room.
- [05:02]
Ayo Akimolere
Jay, any big surprises from you in terms of the big teams so far and their relative inactivity in the transfer market?
- [05:11]
Jay Harris
Obviously, City aside, I wasn't completely surprised because club spent so much money in the summer. And then you also have to factor in what's happened at Manchester United and Chelsea where they've changed their managers. And just because some teams have been. They've not been successful with signings doesn't mean they were inactive in the transfer window, if that makes sense. So look at spurs. On paper, the only real first team signing they made was Conor Gallagher, but we know they tried to sign Andrew Robertson and Antoine Semenya as well and they couldn't really pull those off. So just because clubs didn't sign anybody doesn't mean that they weren't trying to be active. But January is always a very difficult time.
- [05:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean, Tim, you've been busy compiling all the major Premier League transfers in January. Add to that the compilation of the 155 you did from over the summer. I mean, look, you're either a glutton for punishment or you just love reading people's comments. I'm sure there have been some debatable ones. From your perspective, how on earth did you get around to doing it? And have you slept yet?
- [06:11]
Tim Spears
No, it wasn't too bad. Last night there was a Sunderland signed someone that I wasn't aware of at all, which I think was like nine, half nine, and I was just like, you've got to be kidding me. But yeah, no, yeah, it's a funny one, obviously. I just do as I'm told, IO so it's not my choice to actually do this. But yeah, how do I go about it? I mean, there aren't any shortcuts really. Like you've just gotta. You've gotta research each and every signing, obviously, but it's about kind of assessing the value, looking at some, you know, data concerning each player, maybe speaking to like a club reporter to kind of judge, like, how important that signing is to that team, really, and how much of an impact he might make. But it's definitely weighted on value. You know, someone like Jorgen Strand Larsen, a really good signing for Palace. I think a really good striker could score a lot of goals, but obviously everybody's sort of fixated on the price and I think they have overpaid, so he's down the list. But yeah, it kind of goes without saying, really, with sort of fewer numbers involved. But doing the 155 in the summer, there were quite a few deals which you thought, that's whiffy, you know, that's really. That's a bad sort of desperate panic signing. Whereas with only 33 here, there are definitely sort of fewer bad signings, I'd say, but probably a fewer outstanding ones too. Lots of players IO that basically fill a instant need in a squad, which is basically what January is all about, isn't it?
- [07:27]
Ayo Akimolere
For sure. Right, talk to me, your top three, especially in January at this moment in time.
- [07:33]
Tim Spears
Yeah. So I was, I was tempted to put Oscar Bob right up there. I think if, I think if Fulham was signing him 18 months ago, it would have been an incredible addition. But I think you slightly have to sort of temper those expectations with Oscar Bob because the fact he's suffered a broken leg and hasn't quite got back to his best. Conor Gallagher almost made it in. I think he was a great addition. Bournemouth have made some really good signings, but yeah, the top three, they're pretty much as nailed on as you can as you can get as a good signing. I think it's hard to really quibble with Antoine Semenya, who's third, obviously, you know, a bit of a ready made star in that team. He's made an instant impact. Four goals and an assist in his first five appearances. I think he really fits Guardiola's system. We've seen the likes of Sterling and Mahrez really flourish in that wide forward role at City for many years and he feels like the next one in that list for me, being a sort of a superstar successor on the wing. So he's third. Douglas Luiz to Villa on loan is second. Like, I mean Villa just desperately needed a midfielder. You know, three players out injured, Kamara, Telemans and McGinn, you know, a huge hole in their team to fill. He'll be the, probably the Telemans replacement in theory, you know, given his style of play, but he really helped. I mean, you know, what did they sell him for 18 months ago, like 40 million quid to get him back on loan. And with a really crucial period of the season coming up, you know, they're chasing the Champions League and hoping to go far in the Europa League. I, I can't see him not doing well. I think Jacob Tanzor said he was their best player at the weekend. That's just a fantastic addition for not much money, a really important time. But yeah, number one spot goes to Mark Gay. For me, I think the price probably puts him at the top. You know, 20 million quid. He's an excellent signing anyway. You know, 25 years old, one of the best centre backs in the Premier League. Obviously he's homegrown, he's got the potential to get better. I Think he will get better under Guardiola and he's cost 20 million quid, you know, I'm sure he's on astronomical wages. But as a deal, one that Liverpool will surely be wishing, you know, they'd done in the summer for maybe double that price. But for City to get a player of his quality for 20 million, it just looks outstanding any way you look at it. So I don't know how you beat that as a deal. Really.
- [09:39]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I mean, I can't help but look at Semenyo Jay with your spurs hat on thinking, oh, that's a player that slipped through the net. I mean, but let's be honest, who says no to Manchester City if they come calling?
- [09:49]
Jay Harris
Yeah, definitely. I think the, the biggest issue with spurs pursuit of Antoine Semenya is that they didn't push hard enough in the summer. That was the opportunity for, for them to strike. And in the end I think he signs that new contract and he goes in January instead. Because if spurs are talking to Semenyo at the end of December, the beginning of the window, saying, come join us, who's Semenya going to pick A team that are 14th in the Premier League. The manager's under a lot of pressure. There's a disconnect between the fans and the clubs or Manchester City who are, you know, pushing for the Premier League title. They're in the Champions League. It's an absolute no brainer. One thing I did want to mention, one of Tim's picks which is quite high up was Angel Gomez. Because to me it's just for Gomez in particular, I think that move just makes so much sense. He gets a few months in the Premier League, he's going to be playing week in, week out. He's a really, you know, really good midfielder. Very silky England international and sorry to say, but if Wolves get relegated, he's only gone there on loan. If they somehow stay up, stay permanent. But, but from Gomez's perspective, it's almost like a try before you buy type thing in the sense of he plays very well for three, four months in the Premier League and he gets a move to another club who are going to be in that competition next season.
- [11:07]
Ayo Akimolere
What are you saying, Tim?
- [11:08]
Tim Spears
I mean this. I.
- [11:09]
Ayo Akimolere
You've gone quiet.
- [11:10]
Tim Spears
No, it's fine. No, I can't argue.
- [11:13]
Ayo Akimolere
We have to talk. Crystal Palace. David, look, they broke their club record twice, signing both Strand Larsson and also Brennan Johnson as well. But also Los Gahi still have Mateta at this moment in time. Who needs to be reintegrated into the club. But also deals for Dwight McNeil collapsed as well. I mean, what's going on there?
- [11:32]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it's been a really interesting time at palace and a club who are really held in such regard. They've got a lot of popularity, unless you're a Brighton fan. And they've done so well. FA cup winners into Europe. They've rightly gained admirers. A lot of good signings in recent years. And between Steve Parish as chairman and co owner, his American fellow investors, Dougie Freeman, the former sporting director, the managers and in particular now Oliver Glasner and many of the players that have lit up the Premier League, the likes of Elise and Eze and Gehe and Mateta and so on. The Mark Gahey saga at the end of the summer window. Clearly behind the scenes, we now know Oliver Glasner telling the club in October that he would be going, revealing it in the same news conference that he disclosed that Mark Gahey would be leaving for Manchester City. And then this situation around Mateta and a move to AC Milan that was all set to go through. The clubs had reached an agreement on a deal worth in excess of 30 million euros. Personal terms were in place, obviously the Nottingham Forest interest had been there, £35 million offer that I don't think anyone's surprised. Crystal palace didn't bite on, given the rivalry. Juventus had showed some interest as well. And then it all collapses on the medical and now there are some discussions about whether he's going to undergo surgery. He comes back to Palace, a late loan wasn't sorted out in and amongst that they tried to sign Dwight McNeil ultimately pulling out after submitting the deal sheet. And there's a lot of mudslinging going on behind the scenes on who's to blame for that. And obviously a lot of heartache on behalf of McNeil who had completed a medical and his partner has spoken out on social media on the morning we record this, they looked into other situations. Crystal Palace, Siddiqui Angers a talented young striker and I actually think the squad comes out of it once they've got players back from injury in decent shape. But the drama doesn't end there for palace because soon, whether it be at the end of the season or before, Oliver Glasner's going to be gone and they're going to need to bring in a new coach, they'll need to recruit again. There's going to be a lot of emphasis scrutiny on the ownership, Steve Parish and the Americans, on the new sporting director, Mat Hobbs, on whoever the Head coach will be and palace will need to try and get back on track because it's been pretty traumatic few weeks and months.
- [14:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Tim. I mean to be a Palace fan right now, I mean not too long ago there were jubilant back in Europe or first time in Europe, celebrating trophies back in the club for the first time in a very long time. I mean now they're thinking about their manager not staying on, certain players coming back that wanted to leave. I mean there's a lot of drama there.
- [14:21]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I asked one this morning how he was feeling and he said confused, which probably sums it up. I mean. Yeah, well, obviously, you know, we all watch an awful lot of Premier League football and we've all got opinions on Premier League players and for palace to sign three Premier League players who I think you'd put in the struggling bracket, you know, this season at best in a couple of cases and to try and sign another in Dwightman Dwightmanill who's not in the Everton team and for a lot of money in some cases. I think it's probably just a bit underwhelming to be honest. You know, if you look at, I don't know, Bournemouth's recruitment, it's so inventive. You know, they go to Brazil and get a prolific young goal scorer or they go to Hungary and get, you know, someone who's been, who was nominated for the Golden Boy Award last year, the scope for, for high resales there or I don't know, you look at Sunderland signing an Ivorian winger who's been playing in the Israeli League, he'll probably be amazing because Sunland's recruitment has such, you know, a high success rate. So I guess, you know, to look at palace signing, you know, Gassan from Villa who, you know, it's not worked out for him at all. 30 million goals, 30 million pounds signing.
- [15:23]
David Ornstein
30 million goals.
- [15:26]
Tim Spears
He's so good. 30 million pounds, no goals, no assists. And then, you know, Brendan Johnson never quite kicked on at spurs, you know, could go missing in games and obviously, you know, they sold him for more than they paid for him, I think. And then Strand Larsen, yeah, there's nuances to the Strand Larsen debate and Wolves fans will tell you he's been phoning it in this season. But the fact is, you know, no non penalty goals in a lot of game time this season. So I can see why palace fans are confused I guess. They've obviously gone for ready made Premier League players. One, to solidify their league position, they're still in danger of relegation and two They've got the Conference League to fight for this season so they want players who can come in and potentially hit the ground running. And you know what, it can work out for players at certain clubs and not at others. And a change of environment, a change in manager, a change of city, a change of formation. I'm not saying none of these signings will work, but I do see why palace fans are confused.
- [16:23]
David Ornstein
Can I just jump in on Strand Larsen and balance out some of the public conjecture which is totally fair and understandable, Everyone entitled to their opinion, but nobody or very few people seem to be mentioning that he was afflicted by an Achilles injury at the start of the season. It wasn't just he fell off a cliff, there was a legitimate reason. Meanwhile, and Tim will know this better, it wasn't quite working out between him and Vito Pereira in terms of how he was using him or not using him before his departure. Wolves have been doing terribly and I don't think anybody comes out of it with much credit in terms of their performances, results and numbers that individuals have been posting. But it wasn't so long ago that he recorded really impressive goals and assists in in his debut season in the Premier League, having come from Celta Vigo at a club who are not at the top of English football and attracted the glances of Newcastle United to the extent I think the bids went up to £55 million. I was told that they were prepared to go to 65 million but Wolves were just adamant he was not for sale, renewed his contract on a very handsome Sal Mustad and they were not the only suitors for him then and Crystal palace were not the only suitors for him now. Leeds really wanted to sign him. There were other Premier League clubs who took a look, whether it be Everton and a few others. Let's be clear like the way Strikers are performing in the Premier League this season across the board they're not exactly ripping it up and posting goals and assists like you've seen in some previous seasons. He can't control the price tag that he's been given. However, that price tag has come down significantly in this window and legitimately so given the record. It has come down since Crystal palace initially reached a verbal agreement or proposal that was being handled by George Mendes on behalf of Wolves whose duty was to get that price as high as possible. It was a deal worth around £50 million. All in they've got it down to 43. There are add ons that could potentially take it up to by 5 million and I think most of them, I suspect palace would be quite content to. To pay. And now he comes into palace and we don't know how he's going to do, but he should be given the opportunity to prove many people wrong. And so I don't think it's a bad recruit at all and I'm really intrigued to see how it goes. You will definitely play this back if and when he flops, but I don't think that's going to be the case.
- [18:56]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, just wait for it. Well, one player it's clearly worked out for in honesty is Tran. Larson's got his deal, but yeah, just think about the players. It doesn't work out for Mateta McNeil we're talking about. You know, people talk about the kind of money that footballers are on right now, but, you know, it doesn't always work out the way you want it. I'm sure certain players have already thought about their new life and then at the last minute, you ain't going mate.
- [19:20]
Jay Harris
Yeah, for McNeil, it was particularly tough because he obviously completed the, the medical and he's. He's not played that much under David Moyes this season or he's certainly not starting many games for Everton, so that's difficult. The Matteo one think is slightly different once people take a little bit of a step back, depending on whether he needs surgery or not. Mateta wants desperately to be in that France squad for this summer's World Cup. So depending on whether he goes to surgery or not, if he does play for Crystal palace again, there's a massive motivating factor there to say. Do you know what? This is probably going to be my final few months for this club. I want to make this World Cup. I'm going to give absolutely everything. So I know, you know, you mentioned earlier that he needs to be reintegrated, but all Oliver Glasser needs to say to him is, you know, prove to Didier Deschamps why you should be in that squad, score the goals, fire us to the success in the Europa Conference League and your wish will be granted and you'll move in the summer. So I think that one's slightly different to McNeil, who must be, you know, absolutely gutted this morning.
- [20:13]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, David, very quickly, Arsenal, Mikel Marino's foot injury and Mikel Arteta spoke about looking on the market in a press conference. But Sandro Tonali is a name that seems to have, have come through and you putting out yesterday that perhaps his agent was trying to offload into Arsenal.
- [20:31]
David Ornstein
Yeah, the situation was pretty clear in the end. I think there were some reports on morning of deadline day, Florian Plettenberg of Sky Germany saying that a deal was being worked on by Arsenal to possibly get it done before the deadline, but you know, with a low likelihood of it happening. So of course we make our checks and try and find out what the situation is. And it was, it became abundantly clear and was completely thoroughly sourced and checked and corroborated and confirmed by a number of the parties involved or privy to the situation that Sandra, tonight, his agent, there has been some conjecture over how many agents he has and who holds the real power within his stable of representatives had offered him to Arsenal. I presume that goes into the sporting director, Andrea Berta. It's then his job to explore opportunities, establish viability, especially when it's a player of interest. And Sandro Tonali, as we've reported historically as a player that Mikel Arteta and Arsenal like, no surprise there. It'd be a bigger shock if they weren't and therefore they. They looked into it. That's no great surprise. When they looked into it then it was made clear that absolutely no possibility, by the way, zero talks club to club between Arsenal and Newcastle. Newcastle and Arsenal. No contact. Never suggested there was, but clearly some dialog with his camp. Newcastle, no intention of opening doors to a sale. Three and a half years left on his contract. Very happy with him. We've got nothing to suggest he's not happy with them. There was then a quote I think from. From the representative who is regarded as the representative saying that they didn't speak to Arsenal. But we absolutely stand by our reporting. We checked with that very camp and they confirmed it to us and had no issues with the reporting. So I think there may have been some face saving that went on in that and it's okay, we move on. But we know the situation. I think Eddie Howes talked about it this morning and said he sort of doesn't know what goes on in some of these matters and his focus is just on Sandro Tonali, which is absolutely fine. What matters more is what may follow. And you know, is this a sign that something may evolve with Sandro Tonali and a potential transfer? I don't want to start that speculation by any means. People can do that if they like, but every indication is that he's got loads to play for with Newcastle. He's there for the long term and if people at some point want to try to tempt them into doing business, they're entitled to do that. But certainly Newcastle fans, again, Spain like with Alexander. Isaac won't appreciate the speculation and there's no attempt from us to add to that. It's just address a situation that is out there like we would any other. And of course, yeah, as you say, Arsenal lost Mikhail Marino to an injury that's going to keep him out for quite some time, a suspected broken bone in his foot. I think their statement mentioned he's gonna have surgery and Arsenal were scouring the market for possibilities. Now, they're not stupid. I don't think this ever would have come across their agenda as being a serious, credible opportunity. It'd be madness to think it would for such an important player. But you're in these conversations if you're in the position of Andrea Berta as a sporting director. And there will have been others that they looked at too, but ultimately it wasn't right for them. Despite Arteta quite late on deadline day in his news conference saying, we're active in the market. We never expected them to do anything because they've got such deep and strong and and good resources at their disposal. Even with injuries, they can put players in that position and who can deputize for Mikel Marino and they'll hope to go on in in the four competitions they're in at the moment.
- [24:04]
Podcast Host/Producer
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- [27:54]
Ayo Akimolere
Well let's look ahead to the summer then. One deal already done is Liverpool's move for 20 year old Rena defender Jeremy Jacques. 55 million plus 5 million in add ons. Well let's hear from Tom Williams on the Totally Football show on what the young Frenchman could offer Arnesot's team.
- [28:13]
Tom Williams
He's sort of the latest talented young player off Rennes heralded production line and he has been very highly regarded for quite a long time. He went out on loan to Clermont in Ligue Deux at the back end of the 202324 season. At the end of that season there was an awful lot of interest in him from all around Europe and he decided he was happy to go back to Clermont because he was getting regular playing time and he felt that it was helping him to develop and particularly as a centre back. You know, lots of rugged duels with opposition centre forwards and it was midway through last season when Rennes were having a really poor season in Ligue 1. Couple of managerial changes when Habib Bey came in and took over. He recalled Jacquet from his second loan at Clermont. He went straight into the starting eleven and was a revelation and hasn't really moved since then under Bay Renner been playing with it with a back three or a back five and he can either play in the middle of the back three, he can play on the right of the back three. Very tall, very physical, very quick, you know, good on the ball and has looked destined for the top for quite a long time and I think there is satisfaction that although he's leaving they're at least going to get a full season half out of him.
- [29:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, very quickly on Liverpool, David they seem to have started their recruitment very, very early. Of course we've spoken about defensive cover and also this squad needing a fair bit of surgery, but they seem to be stepping in the right direction. Still surprised they haven't dipped in for January.
- [29:46]
David Ornstein
You could say given that they tried for Marc Gay at the end of the summer transfer window, that perhaps you would have expected them to try and bolster in central defense in this market, especially given how the season has unfolded so far in terms of results and injuries. But you know they'll be judged by the second half of the season. They make decisions with more evidence from a football and financial perspective than any of us are privy to. And with Manchester City going aggressively for Marc Gay in this window and the finances involved, whether Liverpool couldn't or didn't want to match them or go toe to toe whether Mark Gahey was not interested in joining them this time round, whether there are any other opportunities. Of course they looked into the Sunderland center back Getrude before the market closed as a loan. It didn't come to fruition and they plowed on with finalizing the deal for Jacquet. That's a really exciting piece of recruitment. I think what we've seen here is a club who invested incredibly heavily last summer. You know, they've got two new strikers, they've got a new number 10, they've got two new fullbacks, they've got a newish second choice goalkeeper. So they probably want to give it time to blend in. I'm not saying they couldn't have done with strengthening right now, but we just. It's not our decision, you know, it's. It's for us to. To scrutinize what they've decided to do and clearly they're keeping their powder dry. Like a number of other clubs for the summer, they bought one in that was a key area of focus. One, because Ibrahima Konate is out of contract at the end of the season with no news on a new deal. Two, because Virgil van Dijk is into his final 12 months at that point. Three, because Joe Gome be in exactly the same position. Four, because Leoni has cruelly been afflicted by an ACL injury and let's see what else they do. There will be a lot of emphasis on the Mo Salah situation, the uncertainty before the afcon. Let's see how he reintegrates and if it goes well, he's still got a year left on his contract. If it doesn't then maybe there'll be a conversation about a potential departure if he departs. It leaves a massive hole that Liverpool will need to fill and there may be some other areas as well. Liverpool see this as a squad that is now coming down in age profile and that's underlined with the Jacques deal and the others that they did last summer. They appear to be as we've spoken about on this pod building around Arna slot. They see him as their leader and certainly until the end of the season. And this is a new sort of project team. It's only a couple of years into Arneslot being appointed. Michael Edwards returning as CEO of football for Fenway Sports Group, Richard Hughes as sporting director and we'll see lots of activity no doubt in the summer but now they decided to go with what they've got and many aren't happy with that. And fair play, everybody's entitled to their view. And let's see how the next four months unfolds.
- [32:42]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Staying on the idea of youth players, Jay, there's an interesting breakdown of the numbers from our finance writer, Chris Weatherspoon. He's basically found that just over 3.5 billion pounds was spent by Premier League clubs in 2025, 26 season. Of that figure, 2.3 billion pounds was spent on under 24s. I mean, some might say spurs has spent some of that in many respects on youth players. But, you know, do you think that strategy works?
- [33:08]
Jay Harris
Yes, of course. Going for. For youth works, the. The sort of issue with that strategy is you have to be patient and sometimes it takes a couple of years to sort of truly bear fruit. And probably the best example of that in recent years is Arsenal, because the first couple of years of Arteta's reign, they were still sort of signing more senior and experienced pros. And then after a couple of years that you could really see, they pivoted their strategy and they started, you know, integrating Saliba into the squad. They signed Odegaard, Ramsdale, Ben White, players like Timber and Califior couple of years later, but they were sort of allowed to truly develop and grow together. So they all sort of hit their prime at the same point. Chelsea are another example. They won the Conference League last year in Club World cup with quite a young squad. Let's sort of see how they finish the campaign under Liam Rosinha. I think the sort of issue you want to avoid, or the scenario you want to avoid when you're buying youth players is sort of the situation Liverpool have ended up in, where you have to aggressively sign a lot of young players all at once and you're sort of trying to, you know, for next season, they'll have Leone and Jeremy Jacquet, both very young centre backs. How are you going to give them both enough game time to truly develop how regularly they're going to play? That sort of a tricky situation. And then you've also got Kirkes, who's still a very young player. That's the sort of situation you'd ideally want to manage a little bit better.
- [34:23]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, away from Liverpool, which of the other big six clubs need the most work done, do you reckon? Tim, this summer, as a man who likes compiling summer signings and January resignings?
- [34:34]
Tim Spears
Didn't say like, but I'll just do it. I.
- [34:37]
David Ornstein
He's good at it.
- [34:39]
Tim Spears
I Don't know, you can't. I don't think you can look at any of the big six and say they've got a bad squad necessarily. I feel like, particularly with Man United and Spurs in particular, that they're on this sort of, you know, incessant merry go round of, of head coaches and, and this sort of, you know, 18 month period of, of, of of things working at first and then falling apart. And I think, I just think we need to look more at like the structures and the personnel above and around the head coach rather than just head coach new players. We need to look more at the recruitment decisions that have been made and the decision making and the managerial appointments. Arsenal have set the standard on how to sort of build medium to long term with a vision, a vision aligned between people at the top of the club and the head coach and the recruitment. The Ruben Amarim sort of period at Manchester United just look, looks more bizarre by the week because, you know, United have won three in a row and you have to kind of say appoint a manager hell bent on playing 3, 4, 3 every single week, but then not really giving him the squad to necessarily play that system. And then it seemed an argument over that system was a key factor in his dismissal. It's just bizarre and I think it reflects badly on Amarim and the club. And you look at spurs, who's in charge there, who's making the decisions? What's the vision of the club, what's the recruitment strategy, what's the playing style? I see confusion over all these things. So it's not just about, you know, signing talented players in the summer and spending a lot of money. I see kind of inherent issues at United in Spurs in particular that just aren't being fixed. And the same problems have been made sort of, you know, year after year, basically.
- [36:09]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Jay, Christian Romero's been back on socials talking about the hierarchy and the lack of incomings at Spurs. I mean, what you make of what's going on there in many respects, because yeah, they need reinforcements, but it has to be the right one as well. And of course there's still stipulation about the future of Thomas Franklin as well.
- [36:25]
Jay Harris
Yeah, I do think the spurs, as I sort of mentioned earlier, they tried to sign Andy Robertson and Antoine Semenu in this transfer window and it didn't work, certainly understandably from Semeno's case, why he wanted to go to Manchester City. So they were at least trying to sign quality players. And so I think that's a reason why they weren't really active towards the end of the window. They didn't want to. To panic. But if we concentrate on the Romero situation, that's a really complicated scenario, I think, for Thomas Frank, because I think this is the fourth time now that Romero over the last couple of years has fired shots at people who are sort of running Spurs. And Tim just mentioned that there's so much confusion at spurs, and let's sort of break that down very quickly, if I can. In December 2024, when spurs lost to Chelsea at home, Romero fired a shot which it felt like was directed towards then executive chairman Daniel Levo Levy. In the summer, when Thomas Frank was announced, Romero put out a statement on Twitter and he was sort of very critical of what happened with Ange Postecoglou. Daniel Levy was still in charge at that point. Now, over the last couple of weeks, after the 32 defeat to Bournemouth and after the transfer window closed last night, Ramirez made more statements, two more statements in the space of a couple of weeks. Levy's no longer here. Fabio Paratici came back as sporting director very briefly, but now he's leaving to join Fiorentina. You've got Johan Lange here, Vinay Ben Katesham's only been at spurs for. For less than. Less than a year. So you've got all these different moving parts. But no matter who's in charge, Romero is firing a shot at them. So that's definitely something which needs to be fixed. But it just sort of underlines why spurs are in the position that they're in, because there's so much upheaval, so much change, there's no consistency in. In what they're doing. Some of the signings they've made over the last few years is sort of very difficult to understand what they're sort of going for. You get some players like Lucas Bergwell, Archie Gray, Wilson Odebear, it's very obvious they're going for young, talented players with. With a really high ceiling. Then there's other signings which you should sort of scratch your head at a little bit more. So lots of work at spurs to be done in the summer. Not just on the squad, but probably just fixing that structure at the top of the club, which has been an issue for quite some time.
- [38:38]
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Ayo Akimolere
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- [41:01]
Podcast Host/Producer
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayawak and Willett.
- [41:06]
David Ornstein
I'm just pleased he didn't mention Liverpool, Newcastle.
- [41:10]
Ayo Akimolere
We still got time.
- [41:11]
David Ornstein
I really think the managerial market is about to explode.
- [41:14]
Ayo Akimolere
David, as you mentioned, throughout January, the managerial market has exploded. Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid all change managers over the last month or so. Now Marco Carrick is at the wheel. Three wins out of three at Old Trafford. Of course We've been here before with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, who had great results at Manchester United and they offered him a contract, so. So could we see something similar here? If Carrick carries on getting the results.
- [41:39]
David Ornstein
Of course you could, but it doesn't mean it will happen. He can play himself in or manage himself into contention like Solskjaer did, and like his common sense, if he does spectacularly well, he should absolutely be in the conversation, be spoken to, be considered as one of the options. But he shouldn't be the only one and he shouldn't be subject to a coronation. Now, Man United need to be setting about a process that's probably already underway, which will be crunching numbers, doing their due diligence, speaking to people in the industry, speaking to potential candidates, if they're allowed to and if they're available, studying the work of all of them, and Michael Carrick and then as soon as viable, make a decision. I wouldn't be making one just yet because there's so much football still to be played, so much uncertainty around the futures of coaches who are at the World Cup. Are they going to continue with their countries? Are they going to leave? How will they do in the tournament, which will dictate how long they're away for before you can either speak to them or even get them into your club. If they're the chosen candidate, they'll be taking advice from people they trust throughout the game. And you would like to think embarking upon a proper and thorough and diligent process. I know those are the buzzwords that are used by every club, but there have been so many mistakes since Sir Alex Ferguson retired, so many ups and downs, mainly downs. And they've been in this position before. The way things are going, I don't see how Michael Carrick isn't in the frame. However, that can change in one or two results, so there's no point in us being presumptuous just yet. And it's an absolutely massive call, it goes without saying, because Manchester United are trying to rebuild. Champions League. Qualification would obviously be a massive factor in that. They need to get it right, obviously. So, yeah, Michael Carrick, so far, so good. But that doesn't mean to say that there won't be tougher times ahead and there are big decisions on the horizon.
- [43:37]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, big decisions for Manchester United. Tim, any difference you see from how Carrick has carried himself versus Ole? And would you feel confident after just this amount of games to try and offer him a contract at Old Trafford?
- [43:51]
Tim Spears
I mean, we were all sort of pouring over the decisions that Reuben Amren was making for a long time. And I think that, you know, even the likes of us could see exactly what was going wrong with a lot of Amarint's, you know, decisions in terms of formation and personnel. So for Carrick, I'm not saying. I'm not downplaying the job he's done. I think he's been really, really impressive. But I think a lot of people who would have been given those three matches that he's had would have made the same decisions. You know, it wasn't rocket science. You know, change the formation, put FERNANDES in the 10, bring, you know, a mobile midfielder alongside Casemiro in Mainu and then, you know, Dorgo and Diallo as sort of Bumo is the man central attack instead of Kunya. I don't know, it was. It was all pretty obvious, I thought. So I'm not downplaying what he's done, but I do think we should. We should temper, you know, expectations on 3Mzat 3 with. Well, yeah, these are obvious problems that need fixing. I mean, in terms of comparisons, it's a very different era at Man United right now. If you remember when Solskjaer was around, they very much had like a today team. You know, they had players like De Gea and Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani, Cavani, Varane was there. They had like Matic and Mata still knocking around. You know, it was very much sort of fixed for that season rather than maybe looking to the future. Whereas what Carrick has inherited feels pretty exciting to me, certainly in terms of attack. You know, when you've got someone of Fernandez's ability sort of backed by Kobimaynu and then you've got Kunya and Bumo and Sesco, Diallo and Dorgu, all in that sort of 21 to 26 age brushes bracket, that's pretty exciting. I think that's something to build on. And, you know, if. If those players believe in Carrick and are playing for him for the next few months, then, yeah, he'll certainly be in the conversation to get the job. I think being out of European football and domestic cups really helps their push for the top five, which would be a fantastic achievement. If they could do that, you know, they'll push out one of the big boys if they do reach the Champions League, probably in Liverpool or Chelsea. See, it's really early days, but there's a. There's a freedom and a vitality to them and I think they'll do well for the coming months. It's in the summer again with United when you have the complications of recruitment and what's the strategy and what's the vision, that's when it gets complicated with United.
- [46:05]
Ayo Akimolere
You can't deny Manchester United have looked very good under Marco Carrick and very, very scary to play against at this moment in time. Jay, very quickly and David, please follow on from this. The summer could also be so, so interesting in terms of the futures of people like Pep Guardiola, for instance. And let's say Guardiola doesn't stay on up Manchester City. You've got all these other managers, Alonso, Moreska, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, you know, all sort of flying around at this moment in time. Glasner, for instance, is add him to that list. We could have quite a really interesting summer of seeing where, who goes where based on someone like Pep Guardiola leaving Manchester City.
- [46:40]
Jay Harris
Yeah, definitely. And obviously the World cup is going to impact the situation as well. But it's probably important to point out that the World cup probably means, or makes me wonder if we'll see a lot of change later on in the summer transfer window just because it's an expanded tournament. I think the final is on July 19, which is probably four or five days later than major tournaments of a final normally are. And the Premier League would be starting what, three or four weeks after that. So if you are a club trying to hire a manager this summer, that's going to be a massive consideration. If you take a risk on waiting for a manager to see what happens post World cup, because the pre season that you would have and the time they'd have to implement something would be so stunted and so limited that would really impact your plans for the following season. So I do think that's something to keep an eye on and maybe to use Michael Carrick, an example, something like that might work in his favor because Manchester United know, right, if we appoint him, he's going to be in place for the entire summer. We don't sort of have to wait and see what unfolds at the World cup as to whether we appoint him or not. And just one final thing on Carrick, sort of comparing him and Solskjaer. I think Solskjaer was appointed in December as caretaker and then was given the permanent job in March. You could argue that Man United maybe should have waited until the summer to to properly reflect on what had happened. And I think that's what they should do with Carrick. Yes, free games is very exciting, free wins, but it's February 3rd. Wait until the end of the season, speak to the players, speak to the, speak to the agents of the players, speak to everybody at the club, assess how good of a job Michael Carrick has done and then decide whether he should be in the frame to get the job long term.
- [48:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, very quickly, could Guardiola's future have a knock on effect then, David, on this managerial market as we've been speaking about?
- [48:20]
David Ornstein
Yeah, definitely. And I'm not seeking to upset Manchester City fans because we've spoken about this before. There is a very strong feeling in the industry that Pep Guardiola is going to be leaving in the summer. That is not confirmed. He's got a contract until 2027 and so it may be that he decides to continue. So there's nothing concrete on that. But clearly, clearly judging by what Manchester City are doing and we have reported they are getting on with work in case he does go, which they've done before and he hasn't gone. Another caveat, but you know, conversations with the likes of Maresca and I'm sure others too, it's correct procedure for a potential departure. If he does go, Manchester City will need to bring somebody in. So obviously that takes a top option away from others and major ramifications. It's like a decade of Pep Guardiola, man, City. And so, yeah, many coaches who might think they're in the frame for that if it becomes available, might be holding back on their decisions because it's such a great opportunity. Many will look at it and say, I don't want to wait or I'm not in the frame, I should take opportunities elsewhere. So of all of the potential movements, that is undoubtedly at the core of the potential activity. And it's one of many factors that make make the upcoming months so fascinating in the managerial world, perhaps for once even more so than the player market.
- [49:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, Tim, I see a new column coming along. Here we go with all the managers from the summer. Anyway, jets, let's leave it there. Get the manager of Rackins on. Tim, David J. Appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll be back soon.
- [50:09]
Podcast Host/Producer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, Search for the Athletic. Wherever you get your podcasts, you'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company. Production Foreign.
- [50:46]
Ayo Akimolere
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