Ornstein meets Aubameyang: Arteta relationship, Chelsea ‘chaos’ and more

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast Summary: "Ornstein meets Aubameyang: Arteta relationship, Chelsea ‘chaos’ and more"

Release Date: January 19, 2025
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
Guests: David Ornstein and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Athletic FC Podcast, host Ayo Akinwolere sits down with renowned football journalist David Ornstein to delve deep into an exclusive conversation with former Arsenal striker Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang. The discussion navigates through Aubameyang's tumultuous career, highlighting his relationships with key managers, his harrowing personal experiences, and his reflections on his time at various top-tier clubs.

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Aubameyang’s Early Success at Arsenal

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang enjoyed a flourishing period at Arsenal, establishing himself as one of the club’s iconic figures. From being a prolific goal scorer to earning the captaincy, Aubameyang was celebrated by fans and respected by peers.

• Ayo Akinwolere notes, “You earned yourself the captaincy. You scored the winning goals in the Cup Final...” (Timestamp: [12:27]).

Aubameyang recounts the peak of his Arsenal career, emphasizing the camaraderie with teammates and the strong bond with manager Mikel Arteta. His leadership on the field and pivotal performances cemented his legacy at the club.

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The Harrowing Robbery in Barcelona

One of the most gripping parts of the interview revolves around a violent home invasion Aubameyang experienced while at Barcelona, which profoundly impacted his personal and professional life.

• Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang shares, “I was playing downstairs, I was playing my games and my son... they had a gun... they took my kids and the sister of my wife.” (Timestamp: [05:26]).

This traumatic event left Aubameyang battling nightmares and struggling with his mental health, leading him to reflect deeply on his career choices. He admits, “I think at that time I did a mistake not talking to anyone... I was lost for a year.” (Timestamp: [09:06]).

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Strained Relationship with Mikel Arteta

A significant portion of the conversation explores Aubameyang's deteriorating relationship with Arsenal's manager, Mikel Arteta, which ultimately led to his departure from the club.

• Aubameyang recalls, “At that time, he convinced me because he said, I think you can leave a legacy.” (Timestamp: [16:08]).

Despite initial successes, Aubameyang felt conflicted about his future at Arsenal. He discusses how punctuality issues and personal struggles strained his rapport with Arteta. A pivotal moment was the North London Derby when Aubameyang was dropped from the lineup due to lateness, which he attributes to personal frustrations and external pressures.

• Aubameyang states, “I felt it was my mistake not to stay true to my feelings... my mistake.” (Timestamp: [16:08]).

The fallout from this incident led to Aubameyang training separately and feeling increasingly alienated from the team dynamics.

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Chaotic Tenure at Chelsea

After leaving Arsenal, Aubameyang's stint at Chelsea was marked by instability and managerial changes that left him feeling disrespected and undervalued.

• Ornstein mentions, “He signed for Thomas Tuchel, and Thomas Tuchel left within days of Aubameyang arriving.” (Timestamp: [46:21]).

Under Chelsea’s management, Aubameyang faced challenges such as exclusion from the Champions League squad despite being the top scorer earlier in the competition. This period was characterized by what Aubameyang describes as "chaos," including being part of the so-called "bomb squad" – a group of players sidelined amidst managerial upheavals.

• Aubameyang reflects, “I think what they did to me in Chelsea was a bit disrespectful...” (Timestamp: [45:30]).

This environment led to decreased playing time and fueled his desire to seek opportunities elsewhere, ultimately contributing to his move to Saudi Arabia.

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Time at Barcelona and Later Career Moves

Aubameyang fondly recalls his brief but impactful tenure at Barcelona, highlighting it as the best memory of his career.

• Aubameyang shares, “It was my best memory about my career... I have only good memories from Barcelona.” (Timestamp: [57:32]).

At Barcelona, he played a crucial role in propelling the team to Champions League qualification and contributed to their La Liga title win. Despite his successes, the circumstances surrounding his departure were complex, involving personal safety concerns that drove him to seek a more secure environment in Saudi Arabia.

He also touches upon his time at Marseille, where he aimed to prove his resilience and commitment to European football, rejecting offers from American clubs to maintain his competitive edge.

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Personal Reflections and Legacy

Throughout the episode, Aubameyang introspectively assesses his career's highs and lows, acknowledging the personal struggles that influenced his professional trajectory. He expresses regret over not seeking help following the robbery and how these events intertwined with his athletic performance.

• Aubameyang candidly states, “I was lost for a year... I was reflecting on so many things.” (Timestamp: [09:06]).

Despite the controversies, Aubameyang emphasizes his enduring love for Arsenal and expresses a desire to mend fences with former manager Arteta, indicating a willingness to move past negativity.

• Aubameyang concludes, “It's life and I wish him the best... I didn't talk to him, but if one day I see him, maybe I will speak to him...” (Timestamp: [40:54]).

He also addresses the mixed perceptions among fans, acknowledging that his legacy might be slightly tarnished by past conflicts but remains hopeful that his contributions on and off the pitch will be remembered fondly.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Athletic FC Podcast offers an unfiltered and profound exploration of Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang's career, laying bare the personal and professional challenges he faced. Through David Ornstein’s incisive interviewing, listeners gain an intimate understanding of the complexities behind the athlete's public persona, shedding light on the often unseen struggles that shape a footballer's journey.

For the full conversation and more in-depth insights, listeners are encouraged to read the complete interview available on The Athletic.

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Notable Quotes:

• Aubameyang on the Robbery:
  “I was playing downstairs... they had a gun... they took my kids and the sister of my wife.” (05:26)

• On Mental Struggles Post-Robbery:
  “I think at that time I did a mistake not talking to anyone... I was lost for a year.” (09:06)

• Reflecting on Contract Decision at Arsenal:
  “Arteta convinced me because he said, I think you can leave a legacy.” (16:08)

• On Chelsea’s Treatment:
  “I think what they did to me in Chelsea was a bit disrespectful...” (45:30)

• Legacy and Moving Forward:
  “It's life and I wish him the best... I didn't talk to him, but if one day I see him, maybe I will speak to him...” (40:54)

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and emotional depth of Aubameyang’s journey, offering fans and listeners a comprehensive overview of his experiences within the high-stakes world of professional football.

Transcript

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[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. Today we've got an exclusive. David Ornstein in conversation with former Arsenal striker Pierre Emerick. Aubameyang on a career marked with chaos, mistakes and glory.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yo, Pierre, you want to come out here? Here's Aubameyang onside and off the mark for Arsenal.

[David Ornstein]

And Aubameyang's body's gets him to score.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

But it's all over and it's Arsenal's FA Cup.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

How bad was it at the end at Arsenal?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Ah, we have made a decision because we believe that is the best thing right now to do. And that's it. What? He said that I gave him a knife on the back. For me this was, this was not true. Pierre Emricubameyang was the center of a dramatic deadline day saga which ended with him joining Barcelona on a free transfer from Arsenal.

[Ian McIntosh]

Good cross with the right and there's the opening goal and it's Aubameyang in his first classico.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I have only good memories from Barcelona. It was my best memory about my career.

[David Ornstein]

Breaking news now we can confirm an agreement has been reached between Chelsea and Barcelona.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I think what they did to me in Chelsea was a bit disrespectful for me. They did the mess in Chelsea.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

So coming up you'll hear about why he wanted to leave Arsenal but stayed. How his relationship with Arteta broke down, the chaos of Chelsea and the harrowing break in at his home that left him lost. Okay, let's bring in David Ornstein to set the scene before we go into the first part of the interview. We'll hear about Arsenal shortly. But first of all, David, you met him in Saudi Arabia where he currently is playing his football.

[David Ornstein]

Yes, I did. Ayo, this is an opportunity I've been waiting for for a very long time. Years in fact. Interviewed Pierre Emerick Aubameyang in the past when he played for Arsenal, but never in this sort of depth. And it was the first sit down interview he's done since leaving European football. He moved from Marseille to Saudi Arabia in the summer of 2024 after an incredible, storied, tumultuous, successful career at the likes of Borussia Dortmund, Arsenal, Barcelona, Chelsea and the aforementioned Marseille. Now playing for Alcatia in the Saudi Pro league and ready to refle on everything that has happened over the last sort of decade or so. I flew over to Bahrain, the capital Manamar, and crossed into Saudi Arabia to the city of Kobar where Al Qadsia are based on the east coast. I watched Aubameyang train alongside the likes of Nacho, who's also been signed by this club. He's loving life out there. I watched him play the following night. Then we headed back to Bahrain to do the sit down interview. We were sat there for about three, three hours and we covered all manner of topics, turned over every stone. I did push him on, on topics like Saudi Arabian human rights, on any mistakes and regrets he's had from his career. Arsenal, which we'll come on to speak about later, Chelsea too. But where I really wanted to start was with perhaps the most harrowing experience of his life and that was the violent robbery he suffered at the end of his time in Barcelona before moving to Chelsea. And he was kind enough to go into graphic detail and it was not pleasant listening. And ultimately it's one of the main reasons why he's ended up in Saudi Arabia, because of the safety there he feels for him and his family, that's a place where they are now comfortable and want to live and they are loving life and work out there. And so where we'll begin this feature is with Aubameyang's reflections on that fateful experience that occurred at his own home in Barcelona. And he'll talk us through it now.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I was playing downstairs, I was playing on my games and my son, the older one, came running and he said to me, yeah, some guys are to the house. So they came in from outside because my wife was smoking outside with my cousin and her boyfriend and they had a gun, so they took him first. And so they came into the house, they came to me. I said to my son, okay, just go and try to hide. The sister of my wife was there as well with the little one. So I said as well, okay, just go and try to hide. And then I came up and I saw the guys, there were four or five, I think one was with the gun. So he said to me, yeah, yeah, just go down. And I said, no, no, no, just tell me what you want. And we just thought he said, yeah, just sit down, sit down. And I say no. Then this is where he started to punches me. So this is why I say I wanted to fight at that moment. But then one guy went down and he took my kids and the sister of my wife. So at that point I couldn't do anything. And then we went through the house and I give them what they, what they wanted so, so I could be okay. And they stay for 45 minutes, even a one hour. I think something like that.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

At the beginning you were downstairs playing your game?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, I was playing my game. I remember my kids coming running and I don't know why I didn't have the reaction to say something because I was with my brother into the, I don't know how to say to the headphones. Yeah, headphones and. But I, I don't know, I was like, okay, I put the headphones down and I was worried about what is going to be happen upstairs. So this is why I said just hide. And I, I went upstairs.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So it was your child that alerted you to the fact that they were upstairs? Yeah, well, and the guy outside had held a gun to your cousin.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And that's on the same level as you or is it different?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Is different.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

It's on the upper level. Yeah, stand. I understand. So the cousin and your wife had presumably just froze. Yeah, they froze and they've come in.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, my wife was screaming. I remember because she was screaming and this is why. Okay. I said something is wrong. So I went up in the same time my little one came with the sister of my wife. They came down, so I saw them. I said, just hide Just hide. Try to hide somewhere. And so I came up.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Your jaw was broken by a punch.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, exactly. Because he had clothes. But with. With stuff here, you know? Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So you must have been in agony at the same time.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And when you say they took the children and your wife's sister. Yeah. You mean in the house?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Kidnapped, basically.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Not outside the house.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, not outside.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Inside, like hostage, basically. And you had to walk around giving them access to jewelry and watches.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

And watches.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

A huge amount of expense as well as the trauma.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So thank you for explaining. I'm so sorry. That's incredibly brave and candid of you and very important context to all of this. Thank you. The repercussions of the robbery and the assault stuck with you at Chelsea. How did it affect your self then?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, it was very tough. It was very tough because after that you have some nightmares, some nightmares, you don't sleep. And you think about, oh, I should do like that at that time, I should do like this, like that. But you cannot change it. But you think about it and you think about your kids and everything, and it's like this is the part where it's the. Where it's hard. I think at that time I did a mistake not talking to anyone because I think I should talk to somebody, but I didn't want to speak to anyone. I was like. I was lost, to tell the truth. I was lost for a year. I was thinking about that thing and that's it. But as I said, this is why it was good for me in the same time, because I didn't play, so I had time for myself to reflect on so many things and not being focused. It was a tough year. Tough year, but at the same time, good, because I had time to think about so many things.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did you mean like a psychologist or something like that? A therapist?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah. I think at that time, if I had someone to talk with, like therapist or whatever, psychologist, maybe he could help me. I was really struggling to sleep at night. I remember was very hard thinking always about the same thing.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

Yeah, I mean, you hear that, David. And you know, Aubameyang is probably not every football fan's cup of tea, necessarily a great goal scorer, but sometimes we also forget as fans of football what goes on behind the scenes, what can affect a player's progress on the field. All we see is goals. All we want to see is assists. And you know what? He's been through a lot, David.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

He has.

[David Ornstein]

And look, let's be clear. Aubameyang is somebody that divides opinion among football supporters, they look at his career and show appreciation for his goals and what he's done. Some people criticize him. You got to take as you find. I've always found him to be a really engaging, kind, generous guy. Very endearing, truthful, honest. We got into great detail about his career at Arsenal. There were so many headlines around Aubameyang, so much being written and said, so many goals scored. But ultimately, a lot rested on that new contract. And it was from that moment on that things started to get a little bit rocky.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

How bad was it at the end at Arsenal?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Let's say it was hard because all these years in Arsenal, I had good times, so no one was expecting an end like this. So this is why it's hard. But now thinking about it, I'm like, okay, you cannot change it. It's like that. For sure, it would be better to finish. I mean, to end it in a different way. But it didn't happen. So I cannot change the past. Maybe Arsenal and me needed to end it like that for them to just continue and achieve what they want to achieve and me to change at that time and find something different.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Maybe if I go back to your time at Arsenal when things were good, you were scoring goals, carrying the team on your shoulders a lot of the time, some really strong memories like North London, Derby, and sort of established yourself as the first big icon since Thierry Henry. And that's not easy to the extent that you earned yourself the captaincy. You scored the winning goals in the Cup Final, and then you ended the speculation about your contract situation and your future by signing a new deal. And we'll always remember the images and the live stream. And it was a. It was a huge day for Arsenal. You were kind of at the top of your world then. When did it start to go wrong?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Exactly at that time. Exactly at that time. Because I remember FA cup semifinal, and we were talking in the bus with Laka and I mean, every fans were saying, okay, sign the thing. Yeah, sign the thing. Laka told me, okay, what you gonna do? And I was like, to tell you the truth, man, I really don't know. Let's see how it goes. And we won against City, and then we won against Chelsea. And I remember, if I'm being honest with me and with you guys, at that time, I wanted to go. I said, okay, I think for me, it's time to go and try to find a new challenge. I think I did my time. It was very nice. But I think it's time for me to change I just need that. And I feel that this is my feeling. I said that to my brother as well. I said that to my brother. He's the only guy, he can tell you. And then all the people saying, yeah, sign that thing, blah. And we won those games, we won the Cup. And then we had that discussion with Arteta. So Arteta called me and he spoke to me, so what are we going to do? And then he asked me some few things. He said, what do you think about the team and everything? What do you think about the staff? How you working? Do you like it? Blah, blah, blah and everything. And I said, yes, I like it the way we are working and everything. I think Arteta at that time brings something very different from what we used to have. It was very refreshing, I think we didn't have the squad to go at a bigger level. So at that time I said, maybe you will have to bring some new players for sure. And he said, yeah, this is my ambition, but what do you think about it? And I'm like, yeah, if I tell the truth, I was about to leave, but if you talk to me like that is because maybe you want me to stay and everything. And I can see also the people, the fans and everything, they want me to stay. So I really don't know what to do. And at that time, he convinced me. He convinced me because he said, I think you can leave a legacy. And this is. I think it was the first time I heard this word in English. And he said to me, yeah, you can have that legacy. I think you can leave it here. If you stay, you can be an icon like the big names in Arsenal. And from there, okay, I said, maybe. I started to say to change my vision. This is where I said, okay, maybe I will stay. And then him and the fans, they convinced me it was a big mix and they convinced me to stay. But at first I wanted to leave. At the time, and this is where it became chaotic because when you go against your heart, maybe this is where I did. My mistake.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Why did you want to leave?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, because I did four years. I think I did great. At that time, I said, maybe it's time to leave and leave it like this, like proper and clean so everyone will remember me as a good player at Arsenal. It's kind of thing that you feel that if you stay, something's going to go wrong. And at the end, it's just a feeling, you know, I really felt at that time that I need to leave because, I don't know, I felt something is going to be wrong. I didn't know what's going to happen when I stay. I expect me to stay till the end of my career. Maybe because I choose to stay. So then I focus on that. But at that time, I don't know, I had that feeling that I wanted to live for. For something different.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did you have clubs lined up?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I think so. I think there are some. Few good clubs. Even clubs from Saudi at that time. A big one. A big one. So I had opportunities at that time I wanted to leave, but I didn't really say to them, to my father or to Kweku. I didn't really say to them. I just said to my brother at that time, I don't know, I think I want to leave.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

When you signed, were you still feeling that a tiny bit? Or were you now fully in the mindset of continue?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I was already fully focused on. Because I said yes. Okay. When you say yes, you cannot have that feeling. Otherwise he goes in a different way very quickly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

But the underlying thing that made you feel that way. Do you think it started to trickle through afterwards?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, I think so. A little bit. I think so. A little bit. Maybe a little bit. And then I had a tough year. Obviously Covid was not helping at all. So it was really, really tough. And I remember I did a season after that. Everyone, I think, was expecting me to score, as always. Even if that year I think I scored 15 goals or something like that. 15 goals maybe in the total of the season. And they were considering this a bad season. And I think few good players, same standing as me, were not going the same, not even the same. So. But it was like that. Everybody told me that I was doing a bad season because of the new deal and everything. And it was not true for me. It was not true. I think maybe that's underlined. I felt it progressively by staying, you know, and slowly, slowly I was kind of giving up. I don't know. It was a strange feeling. And at the same time then happened this to my mother. So it was really not easy to be really focused on being the best. You know, sometimes there is so many more things important than football. But maybe people don't realize because they think as you are a footballer, football is the most important thing. No, that's not true.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Many people say a big player signs a new contract, that they take their foot off the gas. I can remember many players that have had this accusation. You don't think that was the case with you?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No. Because even if you ask Arteta today, ask him if in Training. I was not giving my best. You can ask him. Everybody can tell you I was always professional. Even you can give me the okay, he's being late, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe, okay. But when I'm on the pitch, always, always, always.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And he cannot say differently because you had in 2021. So after the contract was signed, the North London Derby, which he dropped you for when you were captain. Yeah, I think because you were late to the game in traffic.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Exactly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And then that seemed to start a few incidents. Because then you had your mother being unwell and the trip.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And there was the timing of the return.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And from there on. So was there a problem around timekeeping that people in the public say he has not got the best punctuality like timings. And then later, Arteta used the word himself. Multiple disciplinary breaches. Was that a fair accusation or unfair?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I would say yes, because I was late. So this is a fact. This is not something he invented. This is a fact. The only thing I would say about this is I think he could deal it differently. But he didn't. So it's okay. This is the way he wants to do. So no problem. But I think we. Because I remember that time in the London Derby when he dropped me, I really wanted to play. And I remember he took me in his room before the game just to explain me. And I remember I had tears because I really wanted to play. I didn't want to come late. I didn't want to hurt anybody or the team or the club. It was tough. And I remember after the game, he came to my house to speak because he didn't want this to be a chaos. And I said to him, it's going to be okay. But it was not. After that drop in the London Derby, I was hurt. It was difficult to keep staying the same. He was right saying that because it's a fact. But I didn't want it. As I said, I take my responsibility. Obviously, I was not maybe the best look at when we talk about punctuality and everything. For sure. But I think we could did it differently. But it's okay. It's like this.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

On that day, do you drive to the stadium or the hotel?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

First we went to the stadium.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Okay.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

And then you leave the car, Then you take the bus. You go to the hotel.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So you were late for the bus?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, for the bus. Because it was an accident, like next to my home. And so maybe I should start very early. But you never know what's gonna happen. So this can happen. And he was very pleased because it was a big game, obviously.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did you miss the bus or no?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, I didn't miss you. They were waiting for me. They've been waiting for me.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And that's when he pulled you in or later.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

And then we went to the hotel. And then arriving to the hotel, he asked me to come in his room and this is what he told me. He told me that I'm not gonna play and everything.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Is he shouting or no, no, no.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

He was strict.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

As in because you're the captain or anyone, the rules are the rules, the.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Rules are the rules.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And you tears in your eyes.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, I remember that day because I really felt hurt because I really wanted to play that game badly because I knew that this is my type of game. You know, when we play home derby, it's like you can even ask him for real. I'm sure he remember because he remember about everything. He has everything on papers.

[David Ornstein]

You're listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.

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[David Ornstein]

This is the Athletic FC podcast.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

You're listening to an exclusive conversation with David Ornstein and Pierre Emerick. Aubameyang. Next up, more on his time at Arsenal and how his relationship with manager Mikel Arteta became strained.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did it start to deteriorate from there even though you met at your house to try and make sure there was no mess?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

The trust broken a little bit then?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, I think so. I think so. Because even if at that time I said, okay, yes, let's start fresh, fresh. But you still have it here, you know, because, for example, that year a lot of people came late for any reason at training. Okay, maybe not at the game, but why doing this when it's me and now? So maybe because I'm the captain and everything, so I understand, okay, but I think this is my point of view. Maybe he has a different point of view, but this is a bit unfair because a lot of people came late before me and nothing happened. They just paid their fine and that's it.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did you feel then things were slipping away until the incident with the.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, then it was kind of okay. We had to play in the Europa League somewhere, I don't even remember where. And we had misunderstood because we were qualified, I think already. I think at that time it was kind of obvious that I would not travel to play that game. But we had this Covid rule that you have to come and before traveling you have to do the test one day before. And I didn't came because for me it was obvious that I will not travel, so I didn't need to do the test. So this was a small problem at the end, but it was one more problem in the list after that. I mean, when he had to do what he does, I think he would put it in the list and you can see on Netflix. And he said, yeah, I have the things writing. And yeah, this is part of the things writing. And then the thing with my mom, I remember. So we went to Everton and we lost that game before the game. He said, okay, you will have one day off. After that, if you want to travel, you come to me, you ask me and then I will say, oh, yes or no. And so I went to him to explain. He knew because I had to go in France before. This time I wanted to go to France, take my mom for Christmas and everything. So I said to him, okay, I will travel to France. He said, okay, yes, no problem. And then I came back on the. On the same day of training. I should come back the night before, but I couldn't because my mom had some stuff to do before leaving France. So I traveled in the morning. I arrived in the morning on time at training. And then this is where I started shouting and everything. At that time I didn't say anything. I just. He said to me, yeah, just go home. And I was like, okay, going on his piece. So I don't want to make me in a. In a bad sit. I'm Already in a bad situation, I don't want to respond and try to shout, my turn, you know.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You mean you missed some matches because that. I remember it. You missed some matches because your mother had been unwell. It was in the news that you wouldn't be available.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did she have a stroke?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, she had a stroke, yeah, yeah, she had a stroke. And so I remember. I don't remember where we were playing. I was. It was away. We were playing away. And I called straight away because my family called me. I called the coach and I asked him to leave. I remember because I was with David Lewis, he was with me at the time and he said that I was not feeling well. They left me to go over in France and see her. And from there, you know, it's not easy. Every day, day by day, you have to take it day by day, she has to recover and everything. And this is why I asked her at that time to go in France. And so we take her to have her with me and to make sure she's doing well and she take care of her life.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Yeah. Around the evening of. You were meant to fly back and you didn't, you flew back in the morning. Is there a mistake on your part in there in terms of communication?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes, mistake. But I didn't say that I would miss the flight because obviously I was preoccupated by my mom's stuff and everything. And I didn't see the mistake. I will come back tomorrow morning. I saw it like this, like it's not going to be a problem if I come back tomorrow morning. At the end of the day, I arrived, I do my COVID test an hour later. They know if positive or negative. Negative. Okay, I can train with everybody. Yeah, done. But no, it was a problem.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So you were meant to do the COVID test the night before when you would have landed?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, but I did it in France, Okay, I did it in France. So this is why I'm saying I was sure that it's gonna be okay, but it was not okay.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So when you did it on the morning, you were allowed to go into the training ground?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And you went to see him?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes. Yeah, I mean, I went directly to the. We had a meeting with the team, everything was normal. And after that he said, yeah, come with me. This is where it started, the battle.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

What was he saying in that?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

One on one, he said to me that I couldn't do this because I was the captain. And after that lose against Everton, this was not acceptable. And he said to me that I gave him a knife in his back. I don't know. I don't know why he said that. I was really pissed about that. Because this was not true. It was not true. And he knew, wow. Why I was flying. If I was flying for whatever reason other than to take my mom from France to me, Okay, I can understand. Then, yes, maybe I go for a party or whatever. Okay, I can understand. But in that case, you know the reason. He knows what is happening. He knows that I'm struggling this year. I was expecting from him help and not killing me like this. I was expecting help from him, but he didn't. So that's it.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

What happened after then? You were training on your own?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Basically, yeah. Then I started training by my own. I trained a lot by my own. But, yeah, I trained by myself. I think Kolazinac. I was expected to leave. So he trained alone as well. So we were training sometimes together, sometimes alone. But then he left and I was alone for a long period. I was just waiting an opportunity to go.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

There was no way back. Was there any conversation or apology or.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I think I knew it was. It was done. We had another chat after. After that day, we had another chat when he said, okay, you are not the captain anymore. You will not train with us anymore. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you have something to say? And I just said, no. I took the door and finished from there. I had nothing to say because I don't have to say anything about what happened. Because he knows the reason why I'm flying. And if it's just this, the reason, I don't understand why he did this. If it's just this. But I think it was even different than just this. Flying this day. I think. I don't know, I think maybe he said, okay, I need someone else to be captain, maybe.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And there wasn't a part of you that thought, if I say sorry through gritted teeth, even though I don't believe if I say sorry, I could get back in or. It's not your mentality.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, it's not about mentality. It's just because I know that, okay, when I come late, it's my fault. No problem, I assume. And I always said sorry. I even said sorry. The London Derby after that, the day after, in front of everyone, I said sorry to everyone of the team. He remembers for sure. Because we had meeting. I stand up and I said, okay, guys, I'm sorry for yesterday. And everything was okay. I never want to hurt anybody. I don't do it on purpose. What can I Do I have to say sorry for that? Okay, yes, I'm sorry. But in that case, no, I will never say sorry. For what? To go and take my mom from Laval to London. I will never say sorry. For sure. Even if I came late one day after, I would never say sorry, or you understand or not, or otherwise. Don't give a day off. Don't say to people, okay, you can fly, Just say, no, don't fly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

There was still time for one more drama with the plane to Barcelona. What happened there? You were given permission. You weren't given permission. Genuine confusion or a bit of both.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I was in France because I had two days off. I think Arsenal gave me two days off. So I went to France, then flying back to London, and we were very close to the end of the transfer deadline. So I was flying back from France to London and I had a call with my father. And I remember saying, so what's going to happen? I'm going to leave or not? Because I don't want to stay in the cage for six months, even if it's okay, it's not too long, but six months without playing, like, nah. I was really pissed as well because of the situation in Afcon. So I was working hard, very hard. So I just wanted to play. So he said to me, ah, maybe it's better if you come to see me. If you come to see me, and maybe from there we see what we can do. But I said, okay, but the problem is now I'm going back to London. I had two days off. I will ask to the guys there if I can have one more day, just to figure out what I'm going to do for the next season. I mean, for the next six months. And so I texted the guy I was training with, the physical trainer, and he said to me, okay, let me talk to the. To the guys, but for me, no problem. See us the day after. No problem. I said, okay, cool. So I arrived in London. Then he said to me, yeah, no problem, you can have one more day. So from there I say, okay, now I fly to Barcelona, I go and see my father, and from there I will talk to them. But obviously arriving to Barcelona, everybody knew that I was flying to Barcelona, as you can track the planes and everything, and the rumors were there. So you had to deal with this. Obviously, yeah. In the same time, I knew people will be there, so I knew this is going to be big. Everybody will be talking about, oh, Aubameyang going to Barcelona, what's going to happen? But I wanted to push it to tell the truth, even if I was going to see my father. But I knew what's gonna happen. But I just wanted to go, man. I just wanted to go. And I had a chat with Edu a few days before and he said to me, what you gonna do? And I said, yeah, because he said to me, if I can help, obviously I respect you and everything, and if I can help in a certain way, I will try to do my best. And I said to him, yeah, let me leave. Because at that time I had Juve or Barcelona. And I said, okay, if you can help me, you know that I want to go in Spain. This is what all I'm saying. So if you can help me, that's my choice. So please just do it. They knew it, that I'm gonna fly. And they knew it. But then it becomes just because of Netflix. I mean, Netflix or Amazon. I don't know. Sorry, Amazon, Sorry. Well, yeah, it's just because of that they try to do storytelling, but they knew about it. They knew about it. It's just because they know it's Hobart, if we say this, that is gonna be. This is good, you know, for. For Amazon, for the films. It's always good.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So you had permission to go to Barcelona to see your father?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, I had the day off, so.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Yeah, exactly.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I can fly, I can play.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

But then. And you wanted to push it, but did they call you back?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Or they. They call him back. They call him back because I think the problem is when I arrive in Barcelona, I think maybe they. They thought, okay, maybe he's flying. He's flying normal, so maybe people will not recognize him, so it's gonna be okay. But I arrived with private plane and usually there is always. Or fans or journalists and people were there and they didn't like the idea of, okay, there is a rumor and you flying to that place and nothing is done. Yeah, like, okay, we know, we are chatting about maybe we're gonna do the deal, but the deal is not done. So you cannot fly normally. But they gave me the day off, so it was like they knew what they were doing.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

I remember reporting on it. There was a moment where it was like, off or.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, it was off. I remember because the war day, I was with my father. And I remember around about 4pm, I went to sleep. I said, okay, I'm very tired. I just go to sleep. Then I woke up, it was six, something like that. I was doing my stuff and just watching TV. And at 8 or 9, I was sure that is not going to Happen because you know you have till midnight, then it's finished. It was already eight and you have to do the medical check and everything, so. And it was around 8:30, I think, and my father calmed down. Let's go to hospital. Oh my God.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

I did the deal.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Ah, crazy.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

That's.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

We find a way. They find a to put me out of the jail.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Well, that's really good. Have you spoken to Arteta since then?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, never. He texted me when I left. He said I will not say what he said to me, but it was a great message. Anyway, he was okay. As I said at the end, maybe it was better for Arsenal and for me that we separate at that time.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

How do you feel towards him and other people there?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I think for a long time I was not having it because what he said, that I giving a knife on the back. For me this was not true. But now I don't care anymore. You cannot stay with that negativity. I think it's like this, it's life and I wish him the best. I really don't care about what happened in the past. It's cool, we cool, no problem. I didn't talk to him, but if one day I see him, maybe I will speak to him and try to make him understand what was my feeling at that time. Because I think at that time it was not the right moment to answer because of what I was enduring, what I was living at that moment. I think it was not the right moment to answer because I think maybe it becomes a mess or I'm doing something wrong. So I think it's better like this. But now I can explain myself, I can talk to him easily, no problem.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Do you feel that it tarnished your legacy at Arsenal, that period and relationship with the supporters?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

A little bit, yes. A little bit? Yes. Because obviously some people will say, doesn't matter, it's over, blah, blah, blah. But the other ones are, the manager is right doing so, so Obviously it's like 50 50, but it's like this. But I'm sure they know. They know I always love the club, I always love the support. And one of the most important thing is if I sign that deal, it's because of them. First of all, even if after I went to Chelsea, But I love Arsenal, they know it.

[David Ornstein]

What would you say to the Arsenal.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Fans who will be reading and listening to this?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I miss them because we had good times. Yeah, I know I've not been talking so much about what happened and everything, but obviously I think a lot of them were without Answers. But they have to know that I really enjoyed my time with them. And as I said before, if I sign the thing, it's because of them, especially because of them, because they were on me every day, every single day, and they made me love the club like one of them. So this is why.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You'Re listening to.

[David Ornstein]

The Athletic FC podcast. This is the Athletic FC podcast.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

David, you also spoke to Aubameyang about his experiences at other clubs. What did he have to say?

[David Ornstein]

Well, he was really interesting, talking about Marseille, where he was playing before moving to Saudi Arabia. Roberto de Zerbi, who he briefly crossed paths with prior to heading for the Middle East. He talks about Barcelona being the best memory of my career because in a short spell, he fired them to the Champions League qualification, which was crucial for them at that moment. And even when they won the La Liga title the following season and he had only played something like seven minutes before moving to Chelsea, they produced T shirts to mark the occasion and his face was on them. They treated him like a winner and he'll never forget that. But there's also the stint at Chelsea, and it did not go to plan. He signed for Thomas Tuchel, and Thomas Tuchel left within days of Aubameyang arriving. He talks about a feeling of being disrespected when he was left out of the Champions League squad for the second half of the season, having been their top scorer in the competition in the first half of the season. This is a relatively short period in his career that he describes as chaos and being embroiled in the Chelsea mess. It included him being in the bomb squad. So let's hear what he had to say about that.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I think what they did to me in Chelsea was a bit disrespectful, but it can happen these days, football is like that. So I understand that. No problem. This is why I wanted to prove them that they were doing a mistake. I mean, they did a mistake.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You had an opportunity to go to America, from what I remember in the reporting at the time.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Exactly.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

But you chose Marseille.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So at that point, as opposed to this point, you wanted to continue in Europe, I presume to prove that point.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I wanted to prove it in Europe because obviously I know how people are thinking. And is he still able to play in Europe and still be at the top? When I was in Chelsea, January, that guy wanted me to send me to America. And I remember I said, no chance. They wanted to send me on loan and I said, no chance. I will show you that what you are doing now is wrong. And then I went to Marseille. I went to Marseille just to show them. And I'm very happy I did because I really showed them.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You said disrespected and what they did was wrong. Take us inside that time of your career in life. What on earth happened?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I arrived and Thomas Tuchel was the head coach. So I was happy. I was happy to be. To be there. And after just a week, they psyched him. So it was a bit strange. I was like, okay, I don't really understand maybe why I'm here now. I was like, but okay, it can happen, you know, in life it's like this. So I always try to find positive things, even in the worst periods, but you have to find some positive stuff. And I was like, okay, let's see who is coming and everything. Then Potter, Graham Potter came. I didn't know him personally. I knew he was the coach of Brighton as well, and he did a good job. And he came and he was very honest with me. And he said to me that we will try to learn from each other because we don't know each other, obviously. And it was okay. It was cool at the beginning. I played a few games. I even scored my first goal in the league and also in the Champions League. I have a good run of few games. And after that, I think he decided to play with different number nine. He played with the Havertz. I think he wanted a more false night. He had his idea, I always respected that. So it was not really a problem. But at the same time, we were not performing well and I was not playing. So I was like, just please put me in, you know, as a footballer. I just wanted to play and show him that I can do it. But he decided to put me on the bench and I respect that. You know, he was very honest with me and I had no problem at all with him. And then January came and the club put me out of the list of the Champions League. This is where I started to say, okay, this is a bit disrespectful, because I was the guy who was most goals, I think, in the Champions League at that time. So I was sure that I could help. Even if I'm starting on the bench, no problem. I can accept that because I know how football is. But in the same time, I didn't understand because the team was not performing. Performing world as well. So this is why I'm saying, okay, this is very disrespectful. Do not put me in the list. I was in the List and you don't put me in the list for the. For the next six months. I didn't understood and they tried to send me a loan in America. So I feel pissed, to tell the truth, I feel pissed from that point. I said, okay, season is done for me already. I just go to training to. To maintain the fitness, but that's it. I knew that I'm not going to play. And also they sacked Grand Potter. Then Lampard came and I was like, okay, let's see, maybe we change everything. And we see. Lampard told me, okay, I need you. I want to know how you feel, if you are ready to play again and everything. And I was like, yeah, I'm just waiting for this man, you know. And the first game he came, I was on the bench. I came in, I was doing okay. We played at Wolves. I think the next game we played City. And if I'm not wrong, I played City. And obviously when you play against City, it's a tough one, you know. And from there then I was on the bench, always on the bench. And I was happy because he was honest with me as well. At a certain point. We were close to the end of the season and he spoke to me and said, what are your feelings, you know, that I cannot really help you. And I understood that it's not coming from him, but from upstairs that I don't have to play. So I said, okay, I will just come to training. Don't even put me in the list because for what? And he respected that. And from there it was the end of the season.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did he say that the decision was coming from above or you felt it?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I felt it, okay. I felt it. He said, I'm so sorry, Oba, you know, I can't really help. And I understood straight away. He didn't have to tell me something about he's not him, or. But I felt it straight away.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did anybody, Lampard, Potter, sporting directors, people above ownership ever explain to you what was happening, why you weren't playing or why you weren't included in the list, or did you ever ask them why you weren't?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No. I'm not the type of guy who's going to go and complain. I don't like. No, I'm not like this. I just don't like to go and ask questions like why I'm not playing and everything. I just try to keep focus on my game. And if I'm not playing, it's because there is a reason maybe. And the first thing that I have to do is look at myself, what I'm doing, if it's right or wrong, and what can I improve, what can I do to be better, to play? But I understood at that time that even if I'm doing better, I have no chance to play. And I had no explanation about that. So this is why I'm saying this is a bit disrespectful.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Did teammates say anything to you?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

No, no, no. But some players had the same situation as me, like Ziyech, like Denis Zakaria, a few of them even, I think Koulibaly, for a few moments he didn't play and everything. We had good players at the time, but I don't know, they did the mess for me, they did the mess in Chelsea and then they started buying a lot of players, a lot of players everywhere. It looks like not even a football dressing room, but like, it's more like rugby or. I don't know, it's like crazy, crazy stuff.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Yeah, it was a time of huge change, experimentation. And so there was this, like, it was called a bomb squad in the media anyway, I think maybe Lukaku, it would have formed a really good five aside, or maybe 11 aside team. Second squad may have been better than the first. Well, what is life in the bomb squad like?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

It's funny, you know, we try to stay positive always. And this is what I like about football, because sometimes we have times like this and it's difficult. But you find some people very, very cool. For example, Hakim Ziyech is a very, very cool guy. From outside he looks like he's a bit mad and crazy, but he has a big heart and he's a very cool guy. When you know him, Lukaku as well. I trained with him like for a few weeks before joining Marseilles. He's a cool guy as well. So it was good that at that time I was not alone. I was with those guys. At the end of the day, we were laughing every day, so it was okay.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Do you remember the day that Tuchel was sacked?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

I remember we went to play a Champions League game in Zagreb. I think it's the day after they sacked him. I mean, we played the day before and they sacked. I remember that day because, I don't know, I didn't recognize him. I was there for a few days, two or three days maybe, and I don't know, it was not the guy I knew a few years ago when I, you know, we had a relationship, very, very close. Because he was the only guy who really understood me at that time in Dortmund and yeah, when I arrived in Chelsea, it was like something was wrong, but not with me. But I felt that he's not enjoying his time. I was like, this is very strange. And we lost that game. Obviously it was peace, but I felt like usually he's gonna become crazy, but he went off. I was like, this is not the guy. I know. This is very strange. And the day after he was sacked. And from there I was like, okay, now I understand. Maybe he knew already.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

He had a feeling, yeah. Did you sign for him?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Exactly 100%.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

That was your motivation? It was to sign for Thomas Tuchel.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Otherwise, no chance.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You were playing with the mask on your face at the time.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

And I remember reporting on that situation, that he's going to play with a mask. But you were meant to be out for much longer.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

So did you go against doctor's advice or.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yes, I went against doctor advice because I just wanted to play. When you arrive somewhere, you just want to show straight away that you are involved, that you want to show, you know, you want to play, you want to play games. And so I think that's the best way to come into a team. And I remember saying, okay, let's try it, let's try it. It was the worst game of my life playing with the mask, but I did it because I needed to play, I needed to play.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

How do you feel towards the club and the fans? Did you ever have a connection or.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Is it just never had that connection? I'm being honest with you. Thank you. No connections at all. I think the supporters wanted to see the Oba they saw when I was in Arsenal. I think at that time I was not ready for that. And in the same time, they didn't give me the opportunity to be that guy. So I think I was not ready as well because of what happens in Barcelona. So, for sure, I think it was a chaos year, but I think it was good for me because I think I needed the break and in the same time, they don't want to blame me. So this is the break for me.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

Yeah, you could look at it like that. So when you say because of the Barcelona, you mean that the repercussions of the robbery and the assault stuck with you at Chelsea?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Yeah, it was very tough. It was very tough.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

You didn't feel right, the opportunities didn't come and then it's hard for the fans to warn to you also because they wanted to see somebody that they weren't seeing.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

So this is why we had. No, not that connection.

[Pierre Emerick Aubameyang]

I'll touch On Barcelona, briefly. I just find it fascinating that you went there and you basically fired them to the Champions League and then you were the sacrificial lamb who got used to. To raise money in a really difficult time for them financially. And it's a city where your father lives, it's one of the biggest clubs in the world with an amazing reputation. Like, what on earth do you feel about that period?

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

It was my best memory about my career because it was very short but very, very nice, very intense. I had that connection even with the fans in a small period of time. And this is why I have only good memories from Barcelona. If I talk about football and passion and defense and everything. I arrived, we were, I think, 10th in the league or ninth, something like that. And at the end of the season, we were second. This was a big goal reach. And also at that time, I have so many things to prove as well. This has been all my entire career, you know, proving a point. Proving a point. But I like it. That's all right, that's all right. This is me and I take it. But yeah, it was nice time in Barcelona for sure. It was completely a different football than other places I've been to because, well, I enjoyed playing there. Like the quality of the players in say it was insane type of busquets, Frankie De Jong, those players, even Pedri, so many good players. Dembele at that time was crazy as well. So I have only good memories of El Paso.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

Yeah, great memories. And from an Arsenal perspective, I always remember his wonderful smile as well. Such a wonderful celebration and a series of great haircuts as well. David, thank you so much for your time. That's such a great interview. And you can read more of that conversation with aubameyag in full on the Athletic right now. Thank you so much for listening.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Ian McIntosh]

Hello, I'm Ian McIntosh and I'm the host of the Daily Football Briefing. What is the Daily Football Briefing? It's a special 10 minute daily show designed to bring you up to speed with the most important stories from across the football world. Except on Monday mornings when it's 15 minutes and we try to cram in the results, standings and stories from the top 10 leagues on the planet. Or at least the top 10 leagues that I run on a football manager save. Follow this show today and you'll never miss another big story again. Whether it's news that the Athletic has just broken. David Ornstein.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

What happened?

[Ian McIntosh]

News from outside the Premier League that other podcasts might ignore, that is a.

[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

Difficult one to explain, so let's go bit by bit.

[Ian McIntosh]

Or it's Champions League week and you just need someone to put it all into context.

[Ayo Akimwaleere]

It's made for a very useful away point and a difficult game in a difficult week.

[Ian McIntosh]

Listen to the Daily football briefing in 2025. It's out every weekday wherever you get your podcasts.