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- [00:01]
Ayo Akimwalere
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars, place bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and and Hotel. Don't forget if you haven't signed up for BedMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. Do you own a business that's ready to thrive? It's time to let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate so you can take things to the next level. Intuit QuickBooks is a powerful, AI driven all in one business solution that can help with day to day tasks like invoicing expense expenses and taxes. QuickBooks can help you unlock the growth in your business so you can get back to enjoying your business. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money get 90 off for 3 months limited time only. Terms and conditions apply. Money Movement Services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc. Licensed as a money Transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7, so when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do, that hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that can manage all in one place. Here's how it works. Post your job LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote promoted jobs. Get three times more qualified applicants get qualified candidates at the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. You can let your network know you're hiring. You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile Picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that's LinkedIn.combaseballshow to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [03:28]
David Ornstein
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Arsenal are in advanced talks to sign Sporting Lisbon striker Victor Jokers.
- [03:37]
Karl Anchor
A one on one with the defender.
- [03:38]
Ayo Akimwalere
And Joker fires it home and fires sporting level.
- [03:43]
David Ornstein
So what could the Swede offer? Mikel Arteta's side and is he the missing piece in the title puzzle for the Gunners? Joining me today is our football correspondent David Ornstein and the Athletics Karl Anchor who I've heard is a big fan of rather big and lanky strikers. David, let's get into this. You reported on the Athletic yesterday that Jokeres to Arsenal isn't done quite yet, but we are nearing a conclusion to the Arsenal striker search. Have Arsenal potentially got themselves the number nine that they're looking for?
- [04:21]
Karl Anchor
Potentially. At the time of the recording it's not there yet and they've got work to do. But as we and many others reported on Sunday, Arsenal are in the advanced talks with Sporting Lisbon to sign Victor Yokeres. They do actually have personal terms in place on a five year contract and the player is extremely determined to join Arsenal. Mikel Arteta as manager understandably wants this wrapped up as quickly as possible with pre season training getting underway and so we'll have to see if the clubs can find a common ground on A transfer fee right now, I don't know that to have happened. There are some suggestions on social media that it has, but that's not my information right now. That's not to say it won't change in the next minutes and hours and days, because it's a situation that's being worked upon. The wider situation is the search for a number nine at Arsenal. It's been the talk of the industry, of the club, of that fan base, and all of us and Arsenal have looked at many options over a considerable period of time. We've talked about Benjamin Sesko and we'll speak about him more. We've talked about. Oll Watkins will speak about him more. We actually broke news in late March on the Athletic that Victor Yokares is expected to be high in Arsenal's thinking for this piece of recruitment for the specific position and that Andrea Berta, who was then their new sporting director, is a massive fan of his. And that's ultimately the way they've decided to go at the end of a very long, intricate, detailed, nuanced process that took them in different directions and has had many bumps in the road and, and twists and turns and it's not finished yet. But right now, this is the direction of travel. We'll see how it concludes.
- [06:06]
David Ornstein
Yeah, Kyle, the numbers speak for themselves. And we'll talk about whether or not his style suits Arsenal a little later on. But look, 97 goals in 102 games for Sporting. You're a fan of big, lanky strikers. Are you a fan of Victor Jocharis?
- [06:20]
Tom Harris
Yes. So obviously most of my knowledge was of. Victor has come because of his links to Sporting and to Manchester United. So Arsenal are the only club looking for a striker. So most of my research initially came from seeing whether or not he'd fit in at Manchester United. The best way I can explain Victor Yokerez is he plays football like he's a bully, right? So this is a. This is a striker where if he seizes upon a physical advantage he has over a defender, he will exploit that again and again and again and again and again until either that defender learns to adjust or until the defender just crumbles and has a horrible day. That's the good thing about him. The interesting thing about him is he plays football like he's a bully. So when he does have that advantage, he's just wreaking havoc in the Portuguese League, particularly against the bottom half clubs. The question, I think quite a few clubs, not just the Premier League clubs, but also clubs around Europe, is going Is he still going to be a bully when he makes the move into one of Europe's top five leagues for one of the bigger clubs in Europe? I think he will. I think he's a good football player. This one is really interesting to me.
- [07:25]
David Ornstein
Yeah, for sure. Well, let's see if the Athletics Tom Harris agrees with what you've just said about him being a bully. Let's find out what he thought of Jocherez potentially coming to Arsenal from a tactical perspective.
- [07:39]
Unknown
So I think it's pretty clear the kind of striker that Arsenal are getting with Victor Jocherez. He's high power, high intensity. He loves to run in behind and use his strength and his pace to barge his way into goal scoring positions. He consistently hit through the ball very cleanly on either side. I think it's noticeable how he can kind of wrap his body around shots to make sure that he strikes through the ball from a variety of different angles. But he can also be a battering ram down the flank. He can battle with full backs and defenders, take them on and drive his team up the pitch all by himself. We saw at Sporting, he loves to drift over to the left and run the channel. Then when he gets towards goal, he can be really dangerous, cutting inside onto his right or taking the defenders to the byline on his left. And I think that's going to be really useful for Arsenal, who I've looked slightly light down that side in previous seasons with Bukayo, Saka, Martin Odegaard and Ben White doing a lot of good work on the opposite flank. But despite all of that hard work off the ball running the channels, there's still a real penalty box presence there. Nearly a quarter of his touches landed in the penalty area last season. In terms of concerns, his goal Tally, it was 97 goals in around 93 full games at Sporting. Lisbon has been boosted by playing teams who are well below Premier League standard. If we look at Opta's power rankings, he scored five goals last season against relegated Boavista, who are down at 786 in the ranking. And only one Premier League team, newly promoted Sunderland, find themselves outside of a top 100, so it's a big jump. He's also unlikely to get as much space when it comes to attacking behind the defensive line in the Premier League. As long as jokers can out jump and outmaneuver big defenders in the penalty area, the goal should still come his way at the top of a more possession based team.
- [09:24]
David Ornstein
Sounds like you and Tom have been reading out the same tactical sheet, Carl. I mean look, pretty much identical ideas of what Joker is can bring to, to the Premier League. But it's very funny actually everything people speak about when it comes to Yokaresh. No one speaks about his headering of the ball. I've looked at the stats and they're not that high. Arsenal are a team that loves set pieces. Should they be worried here?
- [09:45]
Tom Harris
It's an asterisk. It's a, it's a very important footnote for, for a striker of his size. I think he's advertised that being 6, 2 some sometimes he looks like he's a big, big, big boy and for a striker of his size you would be expecting to score more headed goals. He does not. Which is interesting. I'm not going to say concerning it is a footnote and it's one of those things of. I've not seen him do this enough and I don't know if this is a tactical choice from, from Sporting cp. I mean Sporting do love a underlapping run and a pullback. A lot of goals he scored in Portugal have come from him running the channels and just being bigger, stronger, faster down that half space inside, getting onto his stronger foot and then shooting right. This is a striker whose determination in and around the final third can turn a half chance into a goal because he's just going to brute force his way in there and that's really good. But also why aren't you scoring more headers? Is that a directive? I'd say don't bank on him scoring 5 to 10 headed goals but also the movement he is going to generate in and around the six yard box. In particular, I think there are two or three crosses last season from Arsenal, particularly in some of those in those tricky games against teams that sit in a complex sort of middle block. So you're thinking about teams in what you can only describe the Premier League middle class, that middle class that's getting stronger and more combative. But there are times particularly when, let's say you're playing Fulham at home. Fulham center backs aren't really going to leave their penalty here. They don't, they don't want to and it's going to be jokers and his movement can he get onto the end of those low crosses which I think he should be able to do and that should hopefully help Arsenal take on some of the more frustrating opponents they've had last season.
- [11:30]
David Ornstein
Well put. We, we've heard about what Jocharist potentially could bring to Arsenal. David, I'm just thinking about the other names you mentioned. At the top, Benjamin Shesco, Ollie Watkins. I mean, what's the latest on those conversations? But also, I don't know, like, this has been the topic for, I say, the last year or so or two as who Arsenal will bring in as a number nine. How concrete are those interests in those players?
- [11:52]
Karl Anchor
Yeah, they've done a huge amount of work on alternative options, all of their options, including Jocharest. But perhaps the most was done on Benjamin Sesko over years and that was really the feeling that we got from the club for a long time, especially that their recruitment department was keen to bring him in. Clearly an amazing talent with quality now and huge potential for the future. And some think he's going to be one of the best number nines around. And it's no surprise that Arsenal and many other clubs have been looking at him. I don't know who's. If anyone's going for him right now. And, and that raises questions in its own right. Maybe it's the finances involved with the sort of transfer fee expected of RB Leipzig and, and the salary requests and, and, and so on for, for this level of player. But clearly there seemed to be some sort of shift around the time Andrea Berta came in. And we've mentioned that he is big fan of Victor Yokares, but I don't think he ever left the picture for Arsenal. It was one that they were exploring alongside Yokares and maybe even the likes of Watkins at the same time, and kind of bringing them all up to a certain point and deciding which one makes most financial sense to go for. And let's see if it twists yet again before, before the end of this. We, we don't have reason to think so right now, but you just never know until the ink is dry in these situations. But we don't know of anything advancing with Sesko just yet. And actually, on the Athletic, I think we're very responsible in our reporting because although there was a lot of noise about Arsenal advancing on Sesko, we never had that sort of concrete information to suggest they were. And it was about being patient and seeing what road they decided to take in the meantime. Yeah, they went for Ollie Watkins in January. They would have done the deal if it was at the right financial level. Aston villa wanted around 60 million pounds. There was no compromise on that. That was the possibility that they were kind of presenting because they needed to sell one of their strikers. Arsenal, I think, were willing to go around 40, 45 million pounds. Villa said 60 or nothing. And so in the end, Arsenal said, we're not going to 60. And Villa said okay, we'll go and sell John Duran. And Villa kept Ollie Watkins and, and now we're, we're on a few months. I don't suspect that Villa's asking price is hugely lower and maybe it comes down a little bit in the passage of a small amount of time. But Ollie Watkins is a top Premier League ready striker. England international. Yeah, he's slightly older age but you know his, his numbers speak for themselves. His body is in amazing condition. He's a brilliant lad. He's being looked at by a number of clubs because there are not many players like him. And I'm sure Arsenal will remain attentive to that situation until and unless something else gets completed and there will be players on the market that different people inside Arsenal like, maybe all of them like. But these are the ones they've kind of moved forward with and it seems Victor Yokares is sort of edging that race and it possibility brings a lot of excitement to the Arsenal fan base I'm sure because of his goal scoring record and his single minded determination to join Arsenal. You know he, he has been heavily linked to say Manchester United. He's worked so closely with Ruben Amarim in the past, but it seemed an option that he did not want to take. You speak to people in the market, they talk about a huge offer from Saudi Arabia for Victor Jocharest and he said no, not for now, doesn't matter what the money is. I want to stay in Europe's biggest leagues. And clearly he chose Premier League and Arsenal. I think Juventus were another team that really wanted him, but he said no, my focus is on Arsenal. I think that would have carried a lot of favor with the Arsenal hierarchy as well, especially when they seem to be having these complications on the Sesco situation. Yokerez from people I speak to in Portugal and around the game who know far more about this sort of stuff than me and don't really have a dog in the fight. They're kind of impartial observers but have studied this player very closely and others too. A couple of things that they say immediately, they say his volume may come down in, in somewhere like the Premier League, but if you're still contributing say 15 to 20 down from 50 plus, then that's a return that could be absolutely critical to Arsenal especially because they appear to have pretty much everything else in place in terms of chance creation and different positions that have been filled and are still being filled this summer. It really was that number nine that that finisher want to Remind older Arsenal fans of the phrase fox in the box. Francis Jefferson. There's no guarantee but a top number nine would fit that nicely. And equally, look at the price point that is being talked about here. And we don't have final figures yet, but Sporting Lisbon seem to want a set fee of fixed guaranteed of 70 million euros and then some add ons so that they can say they touch the 80 million mark. I don't know if some of those add ons will be realistic and then some not so realistic, but they want to somehow touch 80 million, convert that into pounds. And in recent years we've been talking about Harry Kemp, but one, he's one of the best strikers in the Premier League and the world, of course, but going for in excess of 100 million euros. And different players in different positions. Yeah, different age profiles like a Declan Rice in excess of £100 million. Moises Caicedo. You've seen this summer with Florian Wirtz. There are midfielders who have been going Martin Zubamendi into Arsenal is 65 million euros. And all over the pitch you're seeing like in recent years, fees for 70s, 80s, 90s million pounds. When you actually look at this for the productivity of a jokers and yet it hasn't been tested in the Premier League yet, I actually think it would be really good value for money. And that's one of the things we said and forgive me for not mentioning this name earlier, but the initial target for Arsenal in terms of Mikel Arteta specifically was Alexander Isaac. That was kind of his dream scenario. Well, that would have been going into the 150 territory. People have been saying 130, 140, whatever. And so when you look at it like that and you look at this potential figure, we did report in that piece in late March when we spoke of Arsenal's interest being high in Victor Yokerez, that that perhaps presents the best value for money option on the market. And if they get it and the numbers are suitable, I think they'll be delighted. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalara.
- [18:25]
Ayo Akimwalere
As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and get qualified candidates that can manage all in one place. Here's how it works. Post your job LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote promoted jobs. Get three times more qualified applicants get qualified candidates at the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates, and with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. You can let your network know you're hiring. You can even add a hiring frame to your profile Picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that's LinkedIn.com to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467 369 in New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. Are you a business owner looking to grow your business? You did what most dream of doing, starting your own business. Now you're faced with the reality of how to make the small business run smoothly. Intuit QuickBooks can help. QuickBooks is a powerful, AI driven, all in one business solution. That means those day to day tasks, invoicing, expenses, taxes, can be done effortlessly. But here's where it really gets good. You don't need to hire a team of analysts to find growth opportunities hiding in your business data. QuickBooks can help with cash flow optimization, profit and loss analysis. It helps you see how your business is doing and uncover new ways to be more profitable. QuickBooks can help you unlock the growth in your business so you can get back to enjoying your business. Manage and grow your business all in one place. Intuit QuickBooks your way to money. Get 90% off for 3 months. Limited time only. Terms and conditions apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments Income, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services.
- [22:12]
David Ornstein
I can't help but think, you know, a player with that output at the age of 27 coming to Arsenal, he isn't, you know, a project striker. This screams a bit of Robin Van Persie coming to Manchester United off a hot season and then winning the Premier League. Is there a possibility here? That's all I'm saying.
- [22:31]
Tom Harris
Wow. You invoked Robin Van Persie's name. Wow. Okay, okay. All right. Let's, let's, let's take this apart piece by piece. So most of my knowledge of Victoria was done in terms of researching how he fit at Manchester United. In amongst all the stuff that you can find on the Athletic from our wonderful team of Arsenal writers, there is a fantastic Arsenal writer who is outside the Athletic ecosystem. I should also recommend it's Billy Carpenter. He runs a great substack called Edu's Barbecue. You should check that out because he's one because Manchester United playing Arsenal in the first game of the Premier League season. So I have to do loads of opposition scouting as well. So Billy's someone I like to read about Arsenal because I want to find out where I can hurt Arsenal. Where did Manchester United need to hurt arsenal? And something Mr. Carpenter wrote quite a while ago was how Arsenal's goal is to create situations where Saka is marked like Phil Foden. If you can create 30 seconds where Sakur is marked, has the same sort of marking system like Phil Foden, then you can see how good Saka is. So you look at this Arsenal team, they have a huge right sided tilt Saka on the right wing you've got Ben White when he's in good form there you've got Odegaard Dovetail and that trio, that pod, that is where all the good stuff happens currently or the majority of the good stuff happens currently. And Saka is, I mean go on the Athletic and read Philip Lahm's article about how you defend against wingers in the Champions League semi finals and the things Philip Lahm is saying about stopping Saka right there. I have routinely seen Sucker playing for England or playing for Arsenal and he is being double teamed, if not triple teamed, where the entire defense is just moving all the way over to try and stop him. Now when that happens, if you're a manager, that's a good and a bad problem. Now Pep Guardiola's big thing and a thing he's spoken about for years and the thing that Louis Van Gaal and Johan Cruyff has also said is if you get a situation where the entire defense is shifting all the way over to one side, then the opposition for a switch, a quick switch and scoring a goal quickly on the other side opens up massively. But to do that, Arsenal need to figure out who they got at number nine as a reference point and who they got on the left sided situation. And I think this is also why David is going to tell us a lot about the Martinelli situation sometime in the near future because that left sided situation needs to get get reworked. Yokerez helps because he's a great reference point up front. His hold up play, the way he just uses that frame when he's got his back to goal and just shrugging off certain backs. Okay, yep. Mileage may vary on whether or not you think Portuguese defenders are good or not from what you've also seen in the Champions League games as well, especially two or three games against Ingus opposition. He can wrestle, he can tussle. You know, this is a striker that has played against Saliba and against Gabriel and okay, those two center backs showed him what the very best in the Premier League can offer but he, he went for it. And I think that's interesting there. I think the fact that he's able to run the channels and is able to get on his. One thing that's going to stick out a lot if he does arrive at Arsenal is in the situations where Arsenal win the ball high up the field or if there's a loose ball and, and the ball is spilling and you're like, oh, Arsenal have the opportunity to attack. You will see Yokerez on his bike and I'm talking, that boy runs and he's going to demand the ball. He is very, very pleased. Give me the ball, I'm going to make something happen. Or the ball's been spilled and he's going, Martin, up top. Now you can see the run. That sort of things will help. And I think Arsenal are approaching a critical mass of attacking players. It's getting to a really, really interesting situation where we know they can absolutely tussle with the best teams. We know that their on ball structure and off ball structure is built for going up against a Real Madrid or going up against a PSG now and they don't blink. The problem is, what do you do when you're playing David Moises Everton in that brand new stadium and Moises go, just gonna put five men behind the ball at all times. How do you, how do you generate that space for Yokarez to run into? How can Yokarez have a battle with the likes of Tarkovsky or Keane and nudge ahead of them when the ball is being delivered around the six yard box? Sakura is phenomenal. Odegaard hopefully will have recovered from his ankle injury and will be feeling better. And it's getting better and I'm certainly preparing. I've made peace with the fact that Arsenal may one day win the Premier League title. The more I'm talking about it and the more I talk about Yokerez, the more I realize he's going to score at Old Trafford on match day one and he's going to do the celebration in my face.
- [27:01]
David Ornstein
Isn't he just letting you know, not the Gabrielle one, but the actual real one.
- [27:06]
Tom Harris
Anyway, this one's going to go. That's going to go triple platinum. That's going triple platinum in North London.
- [27:10]
David Ornstein
How we both did it together at the same time. Actual jokes. But David, we have to have a little chat on Andrea Berta and obviously there'll be natural comparisons made to a DU or not. Any differences perhaps, but the reality is like this is a crucial transfer window for Arsenal. The Zubimendi deal was interesting, but I think that was prior to him to a certain degree. Obviously a striker, a new keeper. How would you measure his influence on this transfer window so far?
- [27:38]
Karl Anchor
Well, you say crucial transfer window. I think every single transfer window is with Arsenal. We're saying it twice a year, but this one does feel particularly pertinent because it's been a while since they picked up a trophy. And Mikel Arteta seems to be facing increasing external pressure to deliver next season. I don't think that's replicated internally. I think they're very happy with the progress that he has brought about, which in my view is pretty tangible compared to where Arsenal were before. And he's extremely popular within the club. But of course, with Berta new in the door, he'll want to be making his mark. And yeah, he does do things differently from, from what we've seen. I've got a preface this with. These are extremely early days. You judge a sporting director over years and that was a frustration that Eddie Howe pointed out about Dan Ashworth's departure when he was asked in a press conference, like, how do you assess his time? And he's like, it's hard for me to judge. We should be, you know, determining that in, in two, three, four, five years time. And, and it's not just on the pitch and it's not just first team and it's not just recruitment and it's academy and women's and, and, and the whole sort of broader spectrum. Now I do think Andre Berta will be focused mainly on, on first team matters. And you've seen news that James McNicholas reported on the Athletic about Arsenal promoting James Ellis to become technical director, obviously Jason Ato left. So they'll, they'll clearly be, they'll clearly be delegating responsibilities in different ways. And Berta is renowned in the industry for working the market, being a bit of a trader and he has come to Arsenal with a very strong reputation on the whole from his time at Atletico Madrid most prominently. But people who've worked with him from even earlier in Italy and he, he came from a different background. It wasn't in football, was it? And so, yeah, of course his methods will, will not be the same as somebody like Edu before who seemed from the outside to go quite clearly for his defined target. And, and if they didn't get that target, which happened on quite a few occasions, you remember Lisandro Martinez was their top choice for that sort of, of left backstroke, left center back role. He went to Manchester United, they pivoted to Alexander Zinchenko. Roseberta seems to be juggling multiple options at the same time, spinning plates and maneuvering, keeping conversations warm, such as right now say like a, an Ollie Watkins. At the same time as you're pursuing your Sesco Yokares in, in recent weeks and you know, in the 8, 10 position, we, we see talks with the camp of Eze but James McNicholas and, and others have reported that there's a Mor, Morgan Gibbs White in the frame. People have said Xavi Simmons and, and then on the wing it's like Rodrigo and Anthony Gordon on, on the other side it was Obrien and Burmo and then it's Nonni Madweke and there'll probably be names that we've not mentioned or we don't even know about. Although a lot seems to come out around what Arsenal may or may not be doing. Berta is probably keeping a lot under wraps as well and, and it's just the nature of the industry. It's not leaking stuff necessarily. It's just people talk and things are happening. It's inevitable. Word of mouth and movements are taking place. So it starts to emerge and it's very difficult for us to compare how Edu before him it was Rao San Lehi, prior to that it was Sven Mislantat. The original under Arsene Wenger was Dick Law and David Dean. Etc. They'll all have their different styles, their own ways of doing things. The impression we got from the outside was that Edu was very collegiate in his approach with his deputy Jason Ato and others within the club and maybe Andrea Berta possibly because it's early, he's come from a completely different background. He doesn't know the guys inside the club yet seems to be doing things sort of in his own way so far. And, and maybe it's a bit early to a bit soon to start, you know, forming all of your internal bonds in the middle of a transfer window. So you know James King is there who's heavily involved in, in the recruitment and contracts and the talks that, that are taking place and, and then in time let's see how he beds in rather than sort of judging it just now.
- [31:50]
Ayo Akimwalere
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Karl Anchor
Breaking up is never easy, but saying goodbye to your old clunky work tools?
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Tom Harris
Well, that's easy.
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Karl Anchor
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Karl Anchor
In AI that actually works.
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Ayo Akimwalere
Switching to a new work platform has never felt this good, so move on to Monday.com.
- [34:42]
Karl Anchor
This is the Athletic FC podcast with.
- [34:44]
Tom Harris
IO Acamolera.
- [34:51]
David Ornstein
And Yamal and Yamal clipping.
- [34:53]
Karl Anchor
It inside as well. The Goalkeeper doesn't get that goal for.
- [34:57]
David Ornstein
Spain and a goal for Zubamendi of all people, that big deal for Martin Zubamendi has been done. Go and read our colleague James McNicholas's inside the deal piece on the Athletic right now. But tactically, Carl, what do you make of this player coming to Arsenal?
- [35:16]
Tom Harris
Oh, he's the guy. This is. This is the one. Best way I can put it, I was one of many England fans watching the Euro 2022 final going at halftime.
- [35:25]
Ayo Akimwalere
Rodri's out, Rodri's out, Rodri's out.
- [35:27]
Tom Harris
We got a chance. And then. And then Zubamendi walked in. That was that, right? 92% pass completion, one possession, multiple times. I think it's him snatching the ball off. Bellingham begins a sequence of events that leads to Spain getting a goal. This is a player who was being courted by Barcelona and during this courtship they were calling him the, possibly the great successor to Busquets. This is a football player that Liverpool attempted to throw the bag at to acquire, only for Zubi to say, actually he'd much rather have one more season playing football in San Sebastian. This is a football player who I deeply admire. I really enjoy watching him play football. He's a football player who very often, when I have to come up with because I'm right about Manchester United most of the time, very often after writer here's who Manchester United should buy and like, who's who couldn't fit a Manchester United at defensive midfield. I never put Zubamendi in these lists. Not because I don't think he's good enough to do it for Manchester United. He absolutely is. But because he's just out of Manchester United's tax bracket at the moment, right? This is, this is a full player who should be going for 100 million. This is 100 million football. Football player. He's the ability he has playing as the single pivot in a defensive system. I mean, this is a role that is kind of slowly walking away from Premier League football because the Premier League now is getting so fast, so strong, so combative that you're only having a second, second and a half on the ball. And yet I've seen him pick the ball, you know, drop deep, pick the ball up of center backs, turn someone, carry it forward with consummate ease. He is brilliant. And I think if you are Arsenal fan who really like the partnership between Rice and Jorginho, this is an attempt to replicate that partnership, give you an extra bit of mobility and then Some he's, he's a spooky good.
- [37:19]
David Ornstein
Okay, I like that. I like that. Spooky good. Another player that we've mentioned, David, is Noni Madweki. Is he spooky good or is he. I mean, how, how close are Arsenal to that agreement? Because we've mentioned and reported on the Athletic that personal terms been agreed, but nothing from club to club yet.
- [37:38]
Karl Anchor
Well, spooky good will be seen in time. He's clearly a really talented player. He's broken into the England squad. He's just 23 years old when he's been fit. By and large he's excelled for Chelsea and he's got really high level, evidently. Otherwise Arsenal wouldn't be interested in signing him. They are interested because they've long been looking for backup for Bukaya Saka and competition, you could say depth, especially with the injury he suffered last season and with Ethan Namweri, he is being more identified as more a central role, sort of 8, 10 competition back up Martin Odegaard rather than to the right. Madwece can play on the right, he can also play on the left. And it remains to be seen if. And what Arsenal will do in that position and, and it may depend on departures. So it, it's, it's a plausible opportunity to explore and they've managed to get personal terms in place. I, I never thought that that would be a, the, the difficult element. They need to sort of strike a deal club to club if, if they're going to make this happen and they, they haven't had the direct contacts yet. Let's see if and when that materializes and if and when Arsenal are prepared to go to the sort of fee that Chelsea would want. So he's clearly enthusiastic about the move if it was to develop, but he's focused on the club World cup at the moment. So I don't think it's probably. And he's playing well out there, it's probably not dominating his thoughts. And, and Arsenal will equally have some. Well, as we mentioned previously, they have Brian and Burmo as one. They explored before this. Clearly there's a decent relationship between the clubs because they're doing quite a lot of trading now and, and let's see how, how this one develops. You know, Arsenal now have the decision to make with the personal terms in place. Do we crack on? You know, and they'll be doing their work on him as a player and, and how he fits into Michael Arteta's group. But yeah, it's one that definitely could happen. But it's not there yet.
- [39:30]
David Ornstein
We've spoken a lot about incomings, but I mean, what about outgoings? The players like Martinelli that have been spoken about that potentially could leave. What happens to Trossard if they get another wide player and you know, talk to us, David, what are you hearing?
- [39:42]
Karl Anchor
Yeah, I think it's quite fluid. Look, they're weighing up multiple possibilities and, and that's just standard practice. So the 9 situation is pretty evident. They want to bring someone in. Gabriel Jesus is still out injured. They've got their existing options, such as a Kai Havertz. We don't know exactly where he'd be playing. That one doesn't take a lot of explaining. The left is a bit more intricate. Obviously Gabriel Martinelli, he's a fine player. Like some respect on his name and you know what you saw him doing the Bernabeu and on many occasions, of course people would want to see it more, not least him, but let's remember that and if, and if he stays, then, then, you know, I'm sure he'll grow into an even better player and he, and he plays for Brazil. It's. It's no disrespect, but clearly, you know, if you're going to bring in somebody of Rodrigo stature or Anthony Gordon or any of the other names that have been linked, then there probably isn't space for, for two such players. And so that's why there might be a possibility of a Martinelli departure. But I've got to make clear I don't know of any movements or talks or, or developing situations. You hear stuff about Saudi Arabia, you hear stuff about Bayern Munich. I'm sure he's liked and admired everywhere, but that doesn't mean that move is materializing and, and will report as and when any situation changes on that. Look, clearly inside Arsenal there's massive admiration for Rodrigo in certain quarters. I don't know if that's universal. So, you know, we continue to make our checks and I don't know of that developing. So there have been suggestions that he's prioritizing Arsenal. I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear that players want to come to them, but it's not like the clubs are talking to our knowledge. Maybe there's been some interaction with his camp, which is normal. You find out conditions, you express an interest and, and so on. Similar Anthony Gordon, you know, the. Would be extremely high if he was to be lured away from Newcastle. To any club, he's just a player that Arsenal like and we, we've said that for a long time. So, yeah, we. We'll see on that. Then you mentioned Trossard. You know, there have been talks to sort of improve his contract and. And we don't know of them not happening anymore. So maybe that's Arsenal's focus. Maybe if great offer came in for them and him, remember, he needs to agree to a departure. If he's going to go, then, then we'll see. But that doesn't seem to have developed either. It's been more of whether he's going to renew or not. And there's a similar situation, of course, with Ethan Wanyeri, an amazing talent academy product who we understand wants to stay at Arsenal, but that doesn't always mean it's a foregone conclusion because you've got to get the deal right and his terms expire next summer. In one sense, they've got a long time because, you know, when he was moving from scholarship to pro, I don't think he signed until the very end, just before he was about to become a free agent. And he could have had his pick of clubs, but he wanted to stay. Eventually they got the deal right. And so on the one hand, yeah, clubs do get nervous when a player enters his last year and many of them would prefer to sell than to let a player enter their final year. But as we've seen with Salah van Dijk, Trent, Alexander, Arnold, the players have the power in that position. You can't force them to go. You could tell them they're up playing in the reserves or something like that, but are you really going to do that? And so with Wanyeri, you know, there's interest building in him. No, no surprise. Wouldn't. Wouldn't. You'd be more surprised if there wasn't. So it's clear that there's interest on the continent from Germany. It was reported by Mike McGrath in the Telegraph on Sunday. Interest from Chelsea that's been reported by Fabrizio Romano and others. And there'll be tons of suitors for him if he was to become available. But right now I think the focus is on the talks. Are they going to reach an agreement? Arsenal want to.
- [43:16]
Tom Harris
To.
- [43:16]
Karl Anchor
He's. He'll be keen to stay. Sorry, I've got a barky dog here. He'll be. He'll be keen to stay.
- [43:22]
David Ornstein
It's Ethan Wanieri. He wants him to stay. David, he wants him to stay. We get.
- [43:29]
Karl Anchor
So. So you know that that's a situation where. Where a bit of calmness is needed for. To see how this plays out and respect for an 18 year old boy who has barely had a summer off with, with international duties at various age group level. He's just been at the Euros with that successful campaign. When he comes back, I'm sure they'll hold talks and, and, and more talks and try and see whether they can go somewhere if, if they can't and a move happens and, and maybe that's why Arsenal exploring some of these possibilities, you know, like Eze for example. You know they've held talks with his camp. It's not gone club to club yet. He's in an 8 to 10 role. We've just said that they're looking at moving wanieri into an 8 to 10 role. So like that it's just logical. There doesn't need to be hysteria about this. This a player is into his last 12 months. It could happen that he leaves or somebody else leaves and so you look at possibilities it might well not happen and he stays and, and the players that they've been looking at don't come in. Just chill and like, yeah, you had.
- [44:34]
Tom Harris
It there is the master of the transfer window. The best transfer news report in the world is telling you just, just chill, chill.
- [44:45]
Karl Anchor
That's probably where I should exit.
- [44:47]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah.
- [44:47]
David Ornstein
Good times. We squeezed you dry for Arsenal transfers. You've come up trumps as usual. Thank you so much for your time.
- [44:53]
Karl Anchor
Cheers guys.
- [44:55]
David Ornstein
Staying. Don't worry, son. Don't worry. Carl Noni Madweki. This was not a name I would have seen linked to Arsenal at any point. But I feel there's something in you that kind of likes this deal if it potentially happens.
- [45:13]
Tom Harris
I really like him. He's a football player. I really enjoy, I really enjoyed watching him play in the area devise. I was quite surprised that when Chelsea got the deal done for him, they took him immediately in the January rather than line him back to complete the season. I know PSV were a little bit miffed about that. I think they would have liked to keep him and try and get to the title race there. But he's an excellent football player. I know Enzo Maresca has been quite vocal in his criticisms of him. I think that's because he knows, knows how much talent is there as a football player. So he's already brought up his. His inconsistent work rate off the ball, which Nonnie's admitted. He needs to get better at defending and he is getting better. I think he's getting really good at curving his runs. But in 1v1s he is a very, very fun. I'm going to take the ball out, drag it to the touchline and then I'm going to make your life hell. To a fullback, you can pass, shoot, carry off either foot. And I can absolutely see why following a season where you've. Where Arsenal have lost three really important players to the injuries they have, when you've had multiple hamstring injuries that required surgery as well, you may want to get very good quality players who can share playing time or playing space. I think the attacking threat of Madueke compared to the attacking threat of Saka, they're different in attacking quality, but they're also different how they go about their jobs as well. Well, which I think opens up really interesting tactical combinations that I'm sure Arteta's already thinking about where you've got Saka playing for the better part of an hour trying to do one thing and then once the defense gets a little bit too comfortable doing that sort of triple team and sitting deep, Madaleka comes on and he's trying to stretch you in a really wide position there. I think my sort of hot take is of the teams that finished in the top six last season, I think Maduecki is probably the attacking player who's most likely to have a notable improved like a goal glass or an assist clut next season. I really like him. I think he's playing partnership with Cole Palmer is super fun. If you are a citizen of the city of Wolverhampton, I can understand why you don't like him.
- [47:17]
David Ornstein
I will ask you though, especially from someone from the outside looking in. Where Arsenal perhaps have struggled over the years is a lack of competition, especially in attacking areas. If Madwerki does come to Arsenal, is that adequate competition for Saka or is that more of a tactical, as you said earlier, much more of a tactical signing which means it's much more of a cohesive team buy as opposed to this is the guy that might oust Bukaya Saka from his position.
- [47:45]
Tom Harris
I think it's both. Look, I'm never going to bet against Saka. I think that's. That's a very silly thing you can ever do that is that that guy is Ian Robin's nephew somehow. There was a game Arsenal came to Old trafford start the 2223 season. United won that game but Arsenal were playing in all black and it was the first time I'd seen Saka sort of post gym transformation. So a lot of my early introduction was Saka was through the England team, you know, 77 Saka who was one size and then seeing him in 2022, you're like, oh, you've been in the gym. And then what he did to United that day went, oh, you've, you're putting it all together now. And I think Saka will remain the number one choice on the right wing because basically he's the number one choice on the right wing in the Premier League. It's him and Mo Salah and you can flip a coin. But I, I do also think the amount of times I've seen Saka come off a disappointing Arsenal performance and he is exhausted. If Arsenal aren't winning games, it's not because Saka isn't putting in the effort sometimes it might be because Saka's putting so much effort the week before that he's exhausted. And I think Madawaki is a player now that Saka doesn't necessarily have to, to completely exhaust himself for 90 minutes in games because there are times that you, you can bring in a different option. Definitely. Absolutely. Still questions over what needs to be occur on our left hand side, left back situation is, is a rotating cast. You can tell me how things much rather work there. But I think the interesting thing for me looking at Arsenal and again this is the outside looking in. Arsenal fans can tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Arteta is building the, the spine for two different type of Arsenal teams. So you've got, got so Declan Rice. Declan Rice in games against the bigger teams can play more as a number six because he's tremendous at counter attacking and stopping counter attacks. We saw the 4v1 against Liverpool. But in games where Arsenal are going to get between 15, 16, maybe more possession, it may be better to move Declan Rice from the number six, put him in a more box, the box role where he can carry the ball and then you have a better progressive passer there. That's been solved now by getting zone because that's your six now that means Rice can play more as that box of box player, but then you can swap. So I think it's the situation of Arsenal getting ready for their big match starting 11. They're also getting really quality options for that sort of middle class starting 11 there too. Okay, we know what you can do against a team such as Wolves. I'm sorry, I keep bringing up. I'm sorry. But you also get that really interesting thing. What happens in those minutes where Victor Yokerez perhaps needs to be rested. Okay. You can bring on Gabriel Jesus, who only is playing one game a week. What happens with Kai Havertz is a really, really fun headache that I'm sure Arteta is going to go a long way to solving. They're getting aces in places and they are. I truly believe that squad is reaching a critical mass of quality. So I mean I've last Before last season began, I predicted Arsenal to win the title and I think I wrote there that I I'm very much prepared for them winning one of the next three. So one's down, two more to go. I'm sure they're going to be there or thereabouts come May Day.
- [50:55]
David Ornstein
So let's see gents, let's end it there. Carl, David, thank you so much for your time. In other news, former Arsenal midfielder Thomas Partey has been charged with five counts of rape and one count of sexual assault. He denies all charges. An Arsenal statement to the Athletic said the player's contract ended on 30 June, due to go in legal proceedings. The club is unable to comment on the case. He will appear in Court on August 5th. Thank you guys for listening.
- [51:26]
Ayo Akimwalere
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
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David Ornstein
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Karl Anchor
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