Ornstein transfer latest: Is Semenyo on the move?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast: Ornstein Transfer Latest – Is Semenyo on the Move?

Date: November 20, 2025
Host: Ayob Akimolere
Guests: David Ornstein, Dan Kilpatrick, Karl Anker, Dean Holden

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the ongoing transfer saga surrounding Bournemouth's in-form forward Antoine Semenyo. Host Ayob Akimolere brings together top insiders David Ornstein, Dan Kilpatrick, Karl Anker, and special guest Dean Holden (former Bristol City head coach) to analyze the potential January move, reveal details of Semenyo’s release clause, explore interested clubs, and provide unique insight into the player's development. The panel also discusses the impact of loan spells on young players and what makes Semenyo such a unique talent, all while debating his best possible destination.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Breaking the Semenyo News: The Release Clause and Market Dynamics

Starts at 01:08

• David Ornstein unveils a major transfer story: Semenyo has a £65 million release clause at Bournemouth which becomes active for a brief period in January, and again (at a lower fee) in the summer.
  • The clause is “available to all clubs, not just certain suitors.” [03:19]
  • Semenyo only signed a new contract in July 2025, surprising many given top-six clubs’ interest at the time.
  • Bournemouth’s strategy: Insert clause to convince Semenyo to stay, balancing player ambition with club interests.
  • If the clause is triggered in January, it's only open for about 10 days to allow Bournemouth to find a replacement.

Quote:

“I think it was quite clear at the time that Semenyo signed that deal… you immediately thought to yourself, what have they done to convince him to sign? The obvious assumption is that they’ve inserted a release clause or they've got an understanding with him… and then, yeah, we established… that that release clause stands at £65 million. It's applicable immediately.”
— David Ornstein [01:57]

• Premier League interest comes mostly from Liverpool, Man City, and Tottenham.
• If Semenyo stays until summer, his clause reactivates at a lower price.
• Bournemouth remain “mature and philosophical” about his future.

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2. Which Clubs are Circling? Spurs, Liverpool, City, and United

Starts at 04:57, revisited at 34:17

• Tottenham: Already showed serious interest. They crave a left-sided forward after strengthening elsewhere. In the post-Levy era, could the new regime make a January statement?
  • “Doing this deal in the first 10 days of the window… would be a massive statement.”
    — Dan Kilpatrick [05:42]
• Liverpool: Strong links given Sporting Director Richard Hughes signed Semenyo at Bournemouth.
  • “There’s a clear link there… business done between the clubs, the admiration is definitely there…”
    — David Ornstein [07:43]
• Man City: Monitoring wide forwards due to evolving tactical needs.
• Manchester United: Looked at Semenyo last summer but opted for Bryan Mbeumo. Room for speculation, but likely focus on other positions and finances mean a summer move would be more realistic.
• Arsenal/Newcastle: Arsenal seem well-stocked and would need sales first. Newcastle, while ambitious, have fulfilled wide needs elsewhere and face financial constraints.
  • “I’m not hearing them as at this moment in time being in the frame for Semenyo…”
    — David Ornstein, on Newcastle [12:13]

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3. Why the Buzz? Semenyo’s Skill Set and Numbers

Starts at 06:01

• Nine goal involvements (6G, 3A) in 11 Premier League matches.
• “Very, very two-footed, particularly when shooting… comfortable both flanks, diligent presser, defend[s] from the front.”
  — Karl Anker [06:15]
• An inside forward, offers versatility and tactical flexibility.
• Compared as a hypothetical successor to Mohamed Salah.
  • “If you’re on that list [Salah’s potential successors], you’ve got the potential to be one of the best Premier League players for the next two or three years for sure.”
    — Karl Anker [06:47]

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4. The Player’s Perspective: Insights from Dean Holden

Starts at 16:19

• Dean Holden recounts Semenyo’s unconventional late start in academy football (“came in late, wanted to finish A-levels, joined at 18”).
  • "First thing I thought when I seen him… How on earth has a top club not picked this boy up?” [16:54]
• Semenyo’s “raw attributes”: Size, pace, power, balance, and two-footedness were obvious even at 18.
• His development was self-driven, not overcoached—a product of backyard football and “finding his own way.”
• Relatable, grounded personality, unaffected by early setbacks, stays calm and confident under pressure.
  • “You see him on the pitch, you know when he gets whacked in by a fullback or a center back, he just gets up and smiles… he doesn't seem to get involved in the emotional side of the game…”
    — Dean Holden [19:58]
• Individual development focused on game timing, knowing when to use pace/power versus guile.
• Loan spells (Bath City, Newport, Sunderland) were crucial—experiences forged resilience and adaptability.
  • Bristol City placed development above loan fees; not all clubs do.
• Versatility highlighted as key to his appeal: “He can play for a Bournemouth [high press]… play for a Man City [possession]… that’s a huge advantage.” [28:23]

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5. The Importance of Loan Spells for Young Prospects

Starts at 23:57, expanded at 28:39

• Panel discusses how English Football League loans (and even National League) help top talents develop mentality and physicality.
• Dean Holden draws analogies to academia: “Your academy is college… your loans are university… then you’re ready for the elite.” [30:59]
• Dan Kilpatrick: Harry Kane’s journey through the Football League was vital to his eventual success.

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6. Club-by-Club: Where Should Semenyo Go?

Starts at 34:17

Manchester United

• Karl Anker:
  • United would love him, but finances and current squad structure suggest summer’s more likely.
  • “If a Ghanaian player of Semenyo's quality signed for Manchester United, I’d be running down the streets in celebration.” [34:33]
  • Positional fit: May play as a wing-back given current squad, but would require tactical adjustments.

Tottenham Hotspur

• Dan Kilpatrick:
  • Could be a defining post-Levy deal and “jewel in [Spurs’] young core”
  • “Meet the release clause on the first day of January if we want… would be an enormous show of ambition.” [37:21]
  • Potential partnership with Kudus excites panel.

Liverpool & Man City

• Consensus: Both clubs offer trophies, coaching, and developmental upside—plus tactical fit for Semenyo's pressing and dribbling skills.

Arsenal, Newcastle

• Arsenal: Well-stocked, less pressing need unless sales occur.
• Newcastle: No strong current links, have handled wide reinforcements, finances tight.

Holden’s Take

• “…If I could go back and put my boots on, I’d be playing under Pep [Guardiola]. I think he’s an absolute genius... and he’s got a great ability to win trophies.” [30:17]
• As a United fan, Dean would love Semenyo at Old Trafford!

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the uniqueness of Semenyo’s growth:

  “You don’t… if he’s left-footed or right-footed, and he doesn’t know the honest answer to that. I found that fascinating.”
  — Dean Holden [16:54]

• On mentality:

  “If he tries something, it doesn’t come off… he won’t lose confidence… he has that ability to be a normal lad off the pitch, go over the line… and just feel at home.”
  — Dean Holden [20:41]

• On transfer intrigue:

  "If Spurs could get a player of this caliber ... it would be brilliant—also fun—to have Kudus and Semenyo ... London’s Ghanaian brothers, either side!”
  — Dan Kilpatrick [38:32]

• Cultural flavor:

  “Is the Fufu good in North London, Karl, talk to me?”
  “Oh, it’s fantastic. I miss the fufu in North London.”
  — Ayob & Karl [38:48]

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Memorable Segments & Timestamps

• 01:08 — Episode proper begins: Semenyo’s clause confirmed
• 03:19 — Clause mechanics and timing explained
• 05:42 — Spurs' need and transfer strategy
• 06:15 — Semenyo’s attributes and statistical case (Karl)
• 07:43 — Who wants him and who needs him?
• 16:54 — Dean Holden on “Where has this kid been?”
• 19:58 — Holden on mentality and development
• 23:57 — Value and role of loan spells
• 28:23 — Why he fits all playing styles
• 34:33 — Club-by-club fit: United, spurs, Liverpool, City
• 37:21 — Spurs ambition in the transfer market
• 38:32 — North London Ghanaian duo and culture
• 40:19 — Wrap-up: Consensus and appreciation

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Final Thoughts

The January transfer window could see a major scramble for Antoine Semenyo, a player now intricately profiled as both a statistical standout and a grounded, versatile professional. Expect Liverpool, Man City, and Spurs to jostle hardest, while Manchester United may have to bide their time.

Dean Holden’s ultimate career advice: If you can play under Pep Guardiola at City, do it. But no matter the destination, Semenyo’s unique journey and character have set him up for Premier League stardom—now the football world waits to see who moves first.

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“For Antoine, he has to look where he’s going to go and win trophies… If I could go back and put my boots on, I’d be playing under Pep. He’s an absolute genius.”
— Dean Holden [30:17]

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Contributors:

• Host: Ayob Akimolere
• Guests: David Ornstein, Dan Kilpatrick, Karl Anker, Dean Holden
  Production: Guy Clark, Mike Stabre, Jay Beale; Executive: Abby Patterson, Adie Moorhead

Transcript

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[Ayob Akimolere]

The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayob Akimolere. Bournemouth Antoine Semenu has a Release clause of £65,000,000 as revealed by the Athletics. David Ornstein. He could be on the move in January, so who wants him and where could he end up? All right here with us today in the studio, we've got Dan Kilpatrick, we've also got David Ornstein and also Karl Anker with his Manchester United Ghanaian hat on with us as well today. All right David, come on man. Transfer window doesn't even open for another 42 days and you've already dropped an Ornstein transfer bomber. I mean Semenyo only signed a new contract. I think it was back in July. So how long have you been working on this little story of yours?

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, well I think it was quite clear at the time that Semenyo signed that deal, which came as a bit of a surprise because it was in the summer transfer window when clubs such as Manchester United and Tottenham were circling for him and then bang and fair play to Bournemouth on that front. But you immediately thought to yourself, what have they done to convince him to sign? Aside from a really good team and manager and project and set of teammates, it felt a bit unusual and the obvious assumption is that they've inserted a release clause or they've got an understanding with him that next summer you can make your move and so you still get your outcome and we get the best of you and you continue to develop here and they've got a great relationship. But no one knew for sure then in more recent weeks, I think bits and bobs did come out about the existence of a release clause, which I don't think took many people by surprise. The question was, well, what value is it at? Because there were reports saying Bournemouth are going to want £100 million for him. He's won the Premier League, European football's informed players so far this season, goals and assists, and the impact that he's shown down at Dean Court. I was there on the opening night of the season when Liverpool hosted Bournemouth and he was absolutely electric and sensational and should have been on the winning team despite what he faced that night, the alleged racist abuse and in awe of him. So it was clear that this was going to be a talking point coming into the January transfer window. And then, then, yeah, we established and corroborated and then revealed on the Athletic that that release clause stands at £65 million. It's applicable immediately. So the January transfer window, some had suggested it was only available next summer, no January, it becomes live for a certain period of time, we must hasten to add, which I imagine with these things is in and around the first 10 days of the window and that then gives a couple of weeks for Bournemouth to find a replacement if indeed it is activated, and if it isn't, then puts them in a really strong position to keep him until the summer because they're under no obligation to negotiate. I think they've taken a really mature and professional stance to this. Bournemouth, they accept he wouldn't have signed the new deal if they hadn't agreed to this. So it was a common sense thing to do. Now it comes round to the fact that it may be activated, but only for a certain period of time. So clubs better get their skates on if they're going to do so. My understanding is it's available to all clubs, not just certain suitors. You, you know, the likes of Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham have all been heavily linked in recent days and weeks. It's a clause that if it does go to the summer when it will reactivate, then it's at a lower fee. So that's even more appetizing potentially for suitors. But again, Bournemouth win out of it because they would get him for the rest of the season. So I think this is a really big story and situation, certainly one of the biggest in the market and many of us are fascinated to see how it ends.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Yeah, Dana definitely a player many of us are looking at, thinking, wonder where he fits in for spurs in particular as well, because I know they were in for him over the summer, weren't they?

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Yeah, absolutely. I think there was interest from spurs over the summer. The interesting thing from a Spurs perspective is that they did sign Ghanaian winger from another Premier League club, but they went for Mohammed.

[Karl Anker]

Kudos.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

You can make your own call over whether that was the right decision, not to pursue Semenya instead. But I think there's no secrets that spurs still need reinforcements there. They don't have a natural option on the left flank or a clear favorite on the left flank as it stands under Thomas Frank. So I think David's mentioned them there. There'll be a club that will be watching the situation. I'm sure they're in a new era, the post Daniel Levy era. We don't really know what that's going.

[Karl Anker]

To look like yet.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

What are the aims, what are the objectives? All the noises are very positive. Are they going to go and try and make a big statement in January and perhaps the summer? If so, doing this deal in the first 10 days of the window as David's trailed would be a massive statement. I think so. Certainly they're a club to keep an eye and certainly they like Semeno and need someone in that position. I think.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Yeah. Carl, the numbers this season are naughty man. Nine goal involvements in 11 Premier League games this season. Only Erling Haaland with 15 has more good numbers. Understanding the buzz around him, I mean it's completely understandable, surely.

[Karl Anker]

Six goals, three assists. One of the big things that I think a number of top six clubs or clubs that have ambitions to break into that top six hegemony is the fact that he's very, very two footed, particularly when shooting makes him very, very appealing. He's quite comfortable playing on both flanks. I think he played marginally more games on the right hand side last season compared to left, but we know he can play on the left hand side as well. And the fact that as part of Ireola's system he is a hardworking and diligent presser you can defend from the front. So this ticks off a lot of boxes for those clubs that are looking for someone who can offer something in that sort of inside forward role. I've got like a mythical sort of hypothetical Mohamed Salah successor list and Semenya is definitely in the top five on that list. And if you're on that list, to my mind you've got the potential to be one of the best Premier League players for the next two or three years for sure.

[Ayob Akimolere]

I mean that's a massive statement, but I mean appreciated. If we're talking about this release clause, David, and we're talking about January, I mean how likely is it that someone comes in and who might be circling or at least close to the summit.

[David Ornstein]

Is clearly one of the best market opportunities out there. £65 million is below what Bournemouth were asking for him last summer. So when Manchester United came knocking and spurs to it was 70 million pounds. The suggestions out there following our story is that it's actually £60 million plus 5 million in add ons. So it's slightly lower potentially. And then there's some contingencies rolled into it too. I think that means that people will be looking very closely at this. It sounds like Liverpool have a firm interest and Carl's touched upon that potential admiration. They didn't replace Luis Diaz last summer. They obviously gave Rio Ngoa an opportunity and will continue to and they don't want to block his pathway. But of course with players of such a tender age on such a big stage, they need time and they need space and respect and perhaps an acquisition of Semeno's level would work in that regard. Obviously Mohamed Salah getting to an age where they'll be thinking about auxiliary players, but also succession plans as well. So that's an interesting one to watch. Richard Hughes, the sporting director at Liverpool, signed Antoine Semeno from Bristol City to Bournemouth. So there's a clear link there. There's been business done between the clubs in the form of Milos Kirk as they were in the mix for Dean Howson too. But we don't know because there will be others contending as well. So Manchester City have been credited with an interest and I do think wide players for some time now have been in the sort of atmosphere around Man City because the Tottenham were linked with a move for Savinho in the summer, put in an offer, Man City kept hold of him. They were looking potentially at Rodrigo as a potential replacement. So that's definitely an area that they'll be paying attention to. And this is clearly a player of, of extremely high caliber. And then Dan's touched upon Tottenham. We actually revealed in the summer that they had made an inquiry at the very least for Semenyo. And I think soundings coming from round spurs is that they're ready to do something in January to bolster that squad further. They've got the Champions League campaign, they've got the ambitions of Watford, feels like a new ownership under the old ownership and that they want to be challenging. Their stated aim is to sort of be winning the trophies like they did last summer with the Europa League more regularly and for the time being, from the many conversations I've had, those seem to be the three teams genuinely in the frame to a certain degree. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. There's the finances involved, which suitors will be acutely aware of. They may choose to wait six months and. And if he doesn't go, then you can get an absol. Absolutely outstanding player at a brilliant age as well. 25 years old, fantastic character by every single account that you hear, for an even lower price in the summer market, where your finances are more settled, you know, you've got preseason, etc. So. So that will be interesting. Beyond that, you know, Manchester United were there in the summer, but they obviously took the Brian and Buemo signing. And so is this a position that they're looking for? Is this a player that they're still in for? I'm not aware of that right now. And. And of course, the finances will play a major part with United as well. People have said Arsenal, because I think there's some suggestion that he was an Arsenal fan growing up, but obviously they're very well stocked in those attacking positions as things stand. And. And they've invested so heavily last summer and previous markets that I think there's probably some need to. To move some players out of Arsenal to balance the book somewhat, to raise some money from exits and also free up some space, because I'm not sure where you'd put someone like Semenya, but this is all fluid. The interested parties can change, others can come to the fore. And we've got to be clear, Bournemouth don't want to lose him. You might be listening to this and thinking they're actively seeking and keen on a sale. No, that's not the case. But they are mature about the situation. They're philosophical. They could face the prospect of losing him, which was part of the risk in signing him to the new contract, but they're going to do whatever they can to keep him until the end of the season. He's such an important player. They've lost many key players in the summer, especially from a defensive perspective, and they don't want to harm their season. Bournemouth are really well prepared for these scenarios, and we've seen it in the past, when players leave, they not only replace them, but they seem to replace them with not necessarily better players, but players that keep them on this upward trajectory. And you wouldn't bet against them being ready for the eventuality of Semenya leaving as early as January and having someone lined up that keeps them at the very least in the Premier League and maybe even better pushing for a higher position than they are now and to sustain that that status which has been so impressive so far.

[Karl Anker]

My apologies if I'm putting you on the spot here. You talked about how suitors are quite fluid in Newcastle, possibly interested in a player of Semeno's caliber and profile.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, it's a really good question Carl, because Newcastle are hugely ambitious as per their ownership and their manager Eddie Howe. They've got Champions League football. They want to be winning more trophies. After their League cup success last time round they did strengthen in the the wide area with Anthony Elanga on the right side and that was their priority. They've still of course got Anthony Gordon to the left. Semenya is not a name I've heard in their sphere so far and Newcastle we know have had to be really careful on the finances. They came so close to the edge which led them to the sale of Yancouba Minte and also Elliot Anderson. How they I'm sure would be ruing that. They seem to have balanced out quite well with the departure of Alexander Isaac, but they spent quite heavily on Nick Valtomade. So I'm not sure how the finances would work right now with Newcastle. But moreover I'm not hearing them as at this moment in time being in the frame for Semenya and I don't know what comes from an optical point of view on on Eddie Howe potentially signing another player from Bournemouth. Personally I wouldn't care because Antoine Semeno is so good. Let's see. It wouldn't surprise you if others came into the mix but certainly you know the industry is telling us so far that if there's to be a move it's sounding more like a Liverpool man City Tottenham direction of travel subject to change.

[Ayob Akimolere]

All right, cheers David, we'll leave you be. Go back to dropping more of your wonderful stories all over the social media network. Appreciate it brother.

[David Ornstein]

Cheers guys. See you soon.

[Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)]

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[Ayob Akimolere]

Semenya.

[David Ornstein]

This is where he's most dangerous.

[Dean Holden]

Can he take on the defender and get a strike away? Another for Semenyo. He belts it into that top corner.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Yeah, it has been summarized for Semeno from Bristol City to Bournemouth was also had loans with Bath City, Newport county and also Sunderland as well. Well, joining us now to give us some insight of what he was like actually from his former days at Bristol City, former head coach of Bristol City, Dean Holden, currently assistant manager at Hull City. Dean, so good to have you with us. Let's just get straight into this because I want to ask the Obvious question really, from looking at that young man back in 2017. Did you see the promise of him rising to where he is at right now?

[Dean Holden]

Morning, guys. Great to be on podcast. I listen to a lot in the car. So privileged to be on it.

[Ayob Akimolere]

I appreciate it.

[Dean Holden]

The honest answer is when he first he came in late. He came into the system late, Antoine, because he wanted to finish his A level. So he came in at 18. And when he first come in, you know, you hear coaches a lot saying, wow. First time I laid eyes on him, the first thing I thought when I seen him in that first session was, how on earth no boy from London, how on earth has a top club in an elite academy not pick this boy up? Because the sheer size of him at 18 years old. Everything that you see now with his balance, I did in it interview not so long ago talking about, you don't. If he's left footed and right footed and he doesn't know the honest answer to that. And I found that fascinating as a young player not coming through an academy. He's sort of dipped in and out. He's had some clubs say no to him at a younger age. I think the Scott McTominay won this week. Five foot seven at 17 years old. The timing that these guys need and you can see that rawness in Antoine's game. So the honest answer is when I seen him, it was a little bit like, wow, where's this kid been? Nobody had really heard of him and how far can he go? And that was where the sort of the individual coaching, the idp, the individual development program sort of work kicked in with him. But the raw attributes, the pace, the power, the balance, which I think is key to the way that he plays because the speed that he travels, we're all there. We're there to see. I don't think any coach can kind of get take any credit for that. That was there in the way that he played.

[Karl Anker]

Mr. Holden, can I ask to elaborate a little bit on that balance? Because not everyone is able to sort of run at that sort of speed. How do you sort of spot that balance and sense. And sense of balance?

[Dean Holden]

Well, he was a champion skier. One up until he was. No, he wasn't. I'm joking. I don't know where he gets that from other than coming up against. He played a lot when he was younger and this is, I think, the key thing for a coach when you first work with these young players. He's trying to get that connection with them. And for me anyway, what's his story, where's he come from? You're trying to get on a common ground, who's your support, who's his favorite player, all this type of stuff, trying to get that trust and that. That so you can have that honest conversation with him. As soon as they know that you care for them and you want the best for them, you can really get to the nitty gritty of it in terms of the critique and stuff like that. And it was a young age for him with his brother. He was playing with young. With older players, and when he was a lot younger, he wasn't as obviously as big as he was. So he sort of learned that, I think along the way. It wasn't coached into him. This is what I'm trying to say to you. It was an ability to use his left foot as much as his right foot, not be focused on one foot, not be going in four nights a week to a club and working specifically on his strengths, which is a huge way that academies work. It was very much just finding his own way. And I think that's really set him up now for a shot that what he's got, which is playing in the Premier League at such a young age and with all this attention. I'm really pleased for him that the attention is now coming on him. It won't phase him one bit. I think he deserves to be playing in the Premier League. I think he potentially deserves. And you don't do Bournemouth a disservice, a wonderful football club. But there's a lot of noise around the fee that could be available to take him. If I was a head coach in the Premier League, I'd be badgering my sporting director, my owner, every second of every day. And that's right from Pep Guardiola at Man City right through the Premier League, to try and take this kid because he can go even further.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Dean, we often hear about these young players being these elite players being set apart by their mentality or their personality. I mean, you've talked a lot about being struck by his physique and his technique, but can you elaborate a bit more on what he was like kind of, you know, off the training pitch, what his focus was like, what his personality was like.

[Dean Holden]

Quite quiet, really comfortable in his own skin. Again, not affected. I feel like I'm having a posh at academies here. I'm not affected, not only because I watched a documentary not so long ago on this young tennis player who'd been a world beater from the age of 12 and got to 16 and traveled the country with his siblings of mum and dad and got to 16 and didn't want to do it anymore. Just lost the love. And Antoine's completely different. Really quiet. You see him on the pitch, you know when he gets whacked in by a fullback or a center back, he just gets up and smiles, doesn't it? I think that's a fantastic trait to have because he doesn't seem to get involved in the emotional side of the game. And I remember Pep doing an interview about Phil Foden talking, if he misses a chance, it doesn't matter. And I think he referenced the Dortmund game when he got the winner. He missed five chances prior to that. And that's a little bit like Antoine.

[Karl Anker]

If he.

[Dean Holden]

If he tries something, it doesn't come off. You won't see him shying away from it. He won't lose confidence in the game. It's just he has that ability to be a normal lad off the pitch, go over the line. And Anfield, as he did in that first game the season, that Friday night when he gave Kirk as his ex teammate a real tough game, scored two fantastic goals. And he has that ability to go into them types of environments and just feel at home and feel comfortable and not be overawed by it. And that's again a huge strength that he's got. It's a huge privilege as a coach to be working with these lads at this age. And Alex Scott was another one who's obviously just got into the English school when you're working with these guys about again trying to get that connection with him. So with Antoine, there's a really interesting story. We I sat with him, you know, who's your favorite player? We talked about Thierry Henry. And I think there's two things when you look at what can get him to that next level is so he's got the pace, he's got the power, he's got the balance. He can play off both feet. That's clear to see how can we get this kid to. I believe that the five years ago to the Premier League, but not just to the Premier League, to the top of the Premier League. And for me, there was two key things with it and it was the timing of his action. So a lot of the time he'd find space to run into and he'd push it and he'd run and he'd outpace the opponent. And if they got back, if he was a quick guy getting back in, he'd out strength them and he'd find a way to get in on goal. What we needed to work out was when he gets to the Premier League, most defenders are going to be as quick as him and there's going to be some big, strong center backs, Canate van Dijk, all these type deals who are going to be as strong as him. So it was about the timing of it. And you'll see in that Liverpool game, I'm referencing the first game of the season, his second goal, when they win the ball, he's stood on the edge of his own box. He wins the ball, he drives into the space.

[David Ornstein]

Traore out.

[Dean Holden]

Semeno can look forward. He has Tabernier alongside Evan Nielsen, peeling.

[David Ornstein]

Away Semenyo through the middle and Transomeno two each. That is a thrilling drive.

[Dean Holden]

He takes Konate to a place where he doesn't really want to go. If you watch Konate as a defender, he's backing off and he's taking in one side of the box, creating the space. And he could have easily slid two teammates in and he checks at the last moment, fires it in with his left foot. And the other one was when he's working in the tighter area, when he can't rely on his pace and his power. At times he was probably a little bit scruffy, a little bit raw, but he'd always be able to take a bad touch and then out strength the next guy and then win it back and bundle his way through. So again, it was about taking the defender places he doesn't want to go. If there's a defender right tight to him, can you go that way to come short, get your shoulders forward to face him up. Once he faces him up, they're in trouble because he can go both sides. And they were the two key things.

[David Ornstein]

But there was a funny story where.

[Dean Holden]

We were talking Henri and we were showing clips and then we sat with him, clips of the next couple of games. He wasn't quite picking it up. And I shown him. There's a. There's a really famous clip. It's a magic trick where you basically showing. As I don't know much about magician, I've just listened to a podcast with Stephen Bar this morning. Guy called Oz, some American guy who's a mentalist, talking about mind control. It's a fascinating stuff and it's literally about. You can't read someone's mind, but it's about taking the viewer somewhere and then you're doing the trick over here. And that's kind of. And I believe a lot about that in storytelling, in coaching, because if you asked him now, he'd remember that story because it's such a ridiculous thing. Thing. If you storytell, it's easy to remember. So all of a sudden he's taking Canate in that example here, knowing he's going to go there as opposed to just driving into the space and Canate out, seeing him off with his own, with his own speed. So, yeah, I suppose a little insight into the things that we worked on in that early period.

[Ayob Akimolere]

A lot we've been talking about is the graduation of a player. And there'll be some people who've maybe seen some menu over the last two or three years thinking, wow, this guy's decent. But people forget the journey is long. I'm just thinking about those loan spells and how important that is for young players still finding their feet. Excuse the. How important is it, especially in the football league, to have young players go to these different teams, get that experience, get that ruggedness, get that sense of physicality before they finally break through to teams like Bournemouth. As we're seeing right now, every player's.

[Dean Holden]

Journey is different, isn't it? You see, you see a player come through at 17, you see Max Dalman at Arsenal at 15, who just go like that and they're ready and other players are not. I think the EFL's been given a lot of credit for the, for the current England team in terms of players that have played through the efl. In fact, there's quite a few that have actually played in the National League really early on in the career and gone on to do it. I think for, specifically for Bristol City, where Antoine found his feet. Brian Tinian, who's the technical director, deserves a huge amount of credit. He was the loans manager at the time and he wasn't afraid of putting Antoine into a Bath City. As you said there, I'll be really honest with you, there's certain clubs who you have young players and the player goes to the club that's offering the most amount of the salary and that can be a little bit of a sad moment. At Bristol City it was right, where's the best place for him to go? So Bobby Reid, who's gone on to play for Fulham and Premier League, fantastic player, went down to Baft City Western supermarket. Joe Brian, who had his Premier League career as well, currently at Millwall, the same. And Brian didn't care for we'll send him to a League two club because they're paying more money than a National League south club, Gloucester, these types of. These types of clubs. So and very quickly they can find the feet. And Antoine, yeah, Bass City went up to Sunderland. Don't think it went great at Sunderland. Again, he was only young. Huge pressure for a club that was chasing. I think they were in league one at the time, chasing to get out of there and didn't quite find his feet there and came back and all of a sudden he was in our team and he was. Yeah, he just went from strength to strength.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Karl, do you think he's gone up a level this season? We've talked about the numbers, we talked about the assists and we've talked about the goal scoring as well. Do you think in terms of finesse and quality, even with the Ghanaian hat on in the international stage, do you think he's gone up a level?

[Karl Anker]

Yeah, I think he's finding that rawness that Mr. Holden's described. I think some of that is going away just a little bit more. He's becoming a little bit more relaxed in front of goal. He's definitely getting some more favored areas in and around the penalty box. Certain areas where he goes, if I get here, I know exactly how to shoot, I know exactly how to bend the ball. That end product is taking another level. And I think that's the bit that's getting really, really interesting. Also the two footedness, it's just a big, big, big thing. And to hear Mr. Holden describe him as being so two footed so early on at his time at the Bristol. I mean, how do you. When a player arrives like that and they can go both ways of both feet, what's your step as a coach to sort of develop that.

[Dean Holden]

That again it's finding the, the small details, I think just touching on what you just said to look at his goal he scored against Leeds this season. He's wide on that left hand side. He's tucked into the pitch when the ball gets switched from the right and he takes three or four steps towards a touch line to get himself facing forward against the fullback. The winger comes across to help and he's in a 2v1 situation. There's a. There's a couple of step overs. Nothing too Ronaldo about it. Too fancy. You know, he's efficient. He wants to get to the goal as quick as he can. But there's a couple of step overs just to rock the defender. And then he goes to the byline and he takes a big touch which he knows will kill the full back and then he's balanced to keep the ball in play and bring it back onto his right foot to open up the angle to score is this is a fantastic attribute to have because when you get as an ex defender you know when you've got your mate on the inside and there's a 2v1 situation he should never get out of there. But it's the big touch that he takes which again takes the defender out of the chance of being able to tackle him because he's now in the box. So I think the efficiency towards goal which. Which does come as you just said with. With the rawness and sometimes a scruffy touch here and there, there. But he's got great feet and he can wriggle himself out of moments. For me 11 games he got six goals, three assists. I had a little look this morning, done my research. Decent numbers playing off the side particularly can he increase them. And also I think as a strength what we've not touched on is his versatility can play fantastic off the left where he played a lot for me he destroyed Kirk has off the right in that first game anfield and he can play as a nine or a false nine as people talk about nowadays. So there's three or four positions there where if you're thinking about bringing him in one player who can you can utilize in them moments. And the biggest thing for me and the reason I think he can play in any team in any style which again is a huge advantage to him is that he can play for a Bournemouth who high press because not only has he got the anaerobic speed, he's got the aerobic capacity to repeatedly sprint and chase down a fullback and then he goes back to center back and he can repeatedly press. He can obviously break free as he did in that Liverpool game counter attacking with his speed but he can play in a team that. That has loads of the ball like a man city get him out on that left hand side as I've just touched on with that leads goal and he can break down a block. That's why I think you can't just go he's perfect for a man city or he's perfect for a Bournemouth two ends of the spectrum. I think he could play for both and I think again that's a huge advantage.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Dan, very quickly as we're talking about lone spells and I can't help but think about someone like Harry Kane with your spurs hat on and those what those load spells inevitably created was a goal machine, a gold monster. How important do you think that? Sort of. Because no player's timeline is the same right. Like to menu clearly there were times where he Needed to go elsewhere just to find his feet. How important do you think that is for young players?

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Yeah, I think Dean said it very well. He said everyone's journey is different, but Kane is the best example probably of someone that went out on loan and had all these loans in the Football League and I guess got toughened up by it and served him really well. Again, Dean touched on it, but you look at the England team that's probably going to start the first game at the World cup next summer, and I think probably with the exception of Declan Rice, probably all of them will have played in the Football League either on loan or at their first clubs. Certainly ESRI Conser, John Stones, you know, Jed Spence, Elliot Anderson. English football, you know, owes a tremendous amount to the Football League and the National League. So, yeah, I think it's hugely important. It's not always the way, but I think seemingly more often than not for these players, you know, having that experience, having that game time is enormously beneficial to fulfilling their potential and reaching the levels we're seeing from Semenya now.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Okay, Dean, before you go, I'm just going to put you on the spot super quickly. If you were Semenya right now, obviously January might not happen in terms of a move. You said he could play anywhere. Where would you be thinking as a player? Manchester City, Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur. Manchester United. I mean, all these names are on the list. What do you reckon? From a player's perspective, we still speak.

[Dean Holden]

Quite a lot, so I'll certainly be trying to pulling towards a Man United direction because as obviously as a kid, as supporting Man United, I would love to see him then. I think he's a player that could play for Man United. I think for Antoine, he has to look where he's going to go and win trophies. Where's he going to go and win the most trophies? And for me, I'd go and play under Pep Guardiola. If I could go back and put my boots on, I'd be playing under Pep. I think he's an absolute genius. That's not doing a disservice to anybody else. I think he's a fantastic manager and he's got a great ability to win trophies in the next sort of four or five years of his career. What is he, 26 in January? So he's got plenty of time ahead of of him. I just, I was just, just wanted to touch on the. The loan system really quickly and I see it a little bit because people think football's different than a lot of industries. Like I Go in somewhere. I went into Charlton as a manager, an organization that's not doing so great. How do you turn it around? So it's like taking over a restaurant that's failing. The food's probably not great, maybe the security staff aren't great, the prices are too high. Whatever the problems are, you've got to go in amongst it. Football's really quite the same in many aspects and with the loan system I see it, it's a little bit like college. So how many 19, 20 year olds do you see in elite business organizations run the top dog in that organization as CEO or so for me you do your academy or your YTS as it used to be. That's your college, that's where you're learning. Then you're going into university which is the first couple of years as a pro and it might involve a bas city or a, or a lower league club to take to have these experiences before you go into the elite environment. You look at a pilot, you look at a brain scientist. Surgeons, the top guys who I've got the most respect for, what age do they normally family get to that level and they've had 10 years of studying before they've even come close to being in the pressure environment of an operating theater saving someone's life. Now it's a little bit deep in it on a, on a Thursday morning, but that's how it is and that's why people Max Downman, if it was a brain scientist, probably be the best brain scientist out there. It's 15, 16 years old. He's made us something different. A lot of people need the time. They need time to fail and they don't need to be ridiculed and right. He's never going to play for us again. They need to learn from them, their mistakes and come back stronger. And yeah, that's how I sort of try to simplify the game for the people that are not in amongst the middle of it.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Honestly Dean, this has been an absolute joy. I really appreciate you joining us. It felt like a leadership conference by the end of it. But thoroughly appreciate your insight and knowledge, man. Really, really well worth it. Thanks so much.

[Dean Holden]

Thanks for having me on, fellas.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Well, next let's discuss what Semenya's options in January might be.

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[David Ornstein]

Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go?

[Dean Holden]

Show it. Stop thinking so much. Take a breath.

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[Dean Holden]

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[Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)]

You'Re listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere Carl, I see.

[Ayob Akimolere]

You got involved in a piece on the Athletic looking at where Semenya would best fit in. Dean Holden wants him at Manchester United. I can see you licking your lips at that. Come on, make the pitch. He could be brilliant at United, couldn't he?

[Karl Anker]

Oh, it'd be fun. Look, if a Ghanian player of Semenya's quality signed for Manchester United, I'd be running down the streets in celebration.

[Dean Holden]

Get in.

[Karl Anker]

The Semenya situation is really, really interesting because as David Ornstein's already explained, Manchester United had a look in the summer. They were quoted a price of 70 million or close to 70 million and United said no and then ended up paying more than 70 million for Brian and Bumo anyway. And yet there might be an opportunity again for Semenya. I think the interesting thing there is.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Do you think they can afford him though? Real talk?

[Karl Anker]

I think they can afford him in the summer. There's maybe 65 million in the summer there. The noises I'm hearing in and around United States sound like a January window. Will be more about getting if they are going to make signings in January, it's about getting a body in the style of Sabitza or Valve rather than getting a premium player. United rarely spend big in January now. I think the memories of the Alexis Sanchez deal weigh just a little bit heavy there. The intriguing thing about Semenya is because United signed Matthias Cunha and Brandon Bouma for the number 10 positions. If Semenya was to arrive, you're spending 65 million or there or thereabouts for a player who to get in the starting lineup would most likely have to to play as a wing back. Now, should you spend that much money on a player of that much quality and ask them to play wing back, your mileage may vary there. I think Semanu could do a job there. And just because you're playing wing back doesn't necessarily mean you're going to spend all of your time in your own half rather than in the opponent's goal. United are right now playing a very fast, direct style of football and Reuben Amrum last season talked about having wingers that are more offensive than defensive. So there is definitely scope for or at least one attacking wing back. And what we're seeing this season already is it appears to be Ahmad Diallo. If that player could become Anton Semeno, you could play him on the left or on the right and then you have a more defensive wing back and then you sort of have a very, very potent counter attacking option. I still think United probably have to go out and address issues at central midfield first before they can go in for Semenya. But there is potential. Not the obvious potential in the same way I look at at two of the other clubs in top six, but I'd love for it to happen. I have no idea if it would happen and if it did happen, it require quite a bit of training time to get all of those attacking players on the field. But it'd be fun, wouldn't it?

[Ayob Akimolere]

And also a player that won't be going to afcon. Sorry to me. Just had to drop that one in there.

[Karl Anker]

Why are you doing that?

[Ayob Akimolere]

Just had to drop that one. I'm really sorry, I just had to drop that one there.

[Karl Anker]

I haven't brought up the World cup qualification for Nigeria. Why are you doing this to me?

[Ayob Akimolere]

And you were going to do that, so I just thought I'd get ahead of you. So Dan, all these names are being thrown around team wise. Rarely would I say from an Arsenal perspective I'm pitching for spurs on this one. I actually think this could be a really good deal if spurs could get a player of this caliber.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Yeah, it would be a brilliant deal for Spurs. I think as I mentioned at the top, we just don't really know what spurs aims and ambitions and strategy and policy is going to be. It feels like a new ownership, even though technically it's not. We're in the post Annual Levy era. But what spurs have done in the transfer market over the last few years has been opportunistic. We saw them trying to sign Gibbs White from Nottingham Forest because he had a release clause that didn't work out. But they'd definitely be looking at this situation, I think, and thinking, hold on, we don't have to do a bidding war with City or Liverpool potentially, because we can meet the release clause on the first day of January if we want. That isn't how Daniel Levy typically operated, but again, we're in the post Levy era. So with spurs, it's a really interesting one and it would be an enormous show of ambition if they went out and got some menu early in January. The noises from the new ownership and leadership team have been, we want to be more ambitious. You know, the implication is Levy wasn't ambitious enough and we're going to meet fans expectations now and that includes the transfer market. So let's see. You know, I'll believe it when I see it from a Spurs point of view. But yeah, it would also be really fun to have. You know, I'm sure Karl would have to sort of have spurs as a second team to have Kudis and Semenyo.

[Ayob Akimolere]

You know, on either side, London's Ghanaian brothers, either side.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

It would be brilliant. And, you know, it was a bit like when Barca were, you know, trying to sign Nick at Williams and they had. You already had your Maui thought, you know, they were so good for Spain. I kind of love to see that, that sort of club and country partnership replicated.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Yeah. Is the Fufu good in North London? Karl, talk to me.

[Karl Anker]

Oh, it's fantastic. I miss the fufu. I miss the fufu in North London. It'd be phenomenal. I think it's really interesting to look at Semenyo and Kudus both in terms of trajectory and also in terms of both of their versatility. So Semenu can play on both sides. I know Dan referred to Kudis as a win winger, which I'm still sort of reluctant to go all the way in there for. I know he's mostly played in the wing in the Premier League, but at Ajax he's played as a number 10. I also think that if he had ended up at Brighton or if Liverpool had managed to pick up, he might have been turned into a number eight because I think he can be very press resistant in deeper areas, particularly when he switched on there. So Semenu and Kudus at Tottenham Hotspur with a fully fit James Maddison could be a really really potent attacking 3. I think Xavi Simons still needs to come on just a little bit, but that also helped there too. Kulusevski, how he fits into this. Spurs have pieces and I think the last two or three seasons and please correct me if I'm wrong here, it definitely feels like they're trying to build a young core of players either 25 and under, and the idea is for them to grow up together and then possibly be in the hunt for trophies.

[Dan Kilpatrick]

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. You know, they've got Bergbal, Archie Gray, Pepe Sar. They've got a young core of promising, exciting players. Semenu would be the kind of jewel in that crown, I think, and much more peak age than some of those other players. And I think certainly back to Kudiski, he's the best player they've signed over the last couple of seasons. He's certainly the best of their summer business so far. So I'm absolutely all for it and I'll message you when Simone signs on January 1st. Okay?

[Dean Holden]

Okay.

[Ayob Akimolere]

Well, you heard it here first and we haven't even talked about Liverpool or Manchester City in more depth, but we know what they offer for a player of that calibre. Karl Dan, appreciate your time. David, appreciate you joining on. And also Dean Holden as well. What a top guy. And also thank you guys for listening as well. Matt Davies Adams will be with you tomor with the preview with all eyes on Sunday, which is the North London Derby. I'll be watching. We'll catch you soon.

[Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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