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- [00:00]
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- [01:34]
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- [03:12]
David Ornstein
The Athletic FC.
- [03:16]
Ayo Akebolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akebolere. Well, the transfer season of Strikers just keeps on giving and we've got a man who's always got his fingers on the pulse. Well, I'm hoping so. Anyway, we've got David Ornstein with us to talk transfers. Okay. Well joining us today we have the Athletics David Ornstein and also I want to sprinkle a bit of spurs into this. We've got Jack Pitt Brook with us as well. Right, David, Alexander Isak talk to me because last week he said I think by the time the window shuts on the 1st of September, there's a very good chance Isak will have departed and his preference is to join Liverpool this week you say he said he's not playing for Newcastle ever again. Bring us up to speed on this one. What is going on?
- [04:04]
David Ornstein
Well, we don't know the outcome IO and it's a really delicate and sensitive situation. Clearly that conjures a lot of emotions depending on what side of the fence you sit. The story we reported on the Athletic is extremely well and thoroughly sourced from multiple contacts privy to this situation. And there is an awareness that the perspective of Alexander Isak is that he does not intend to play for Newcastle again. He regards his career at the club as being over and that even if a deal was not to be done for his departure and the window closed and he was still at Newcastle, he has no desire to be reintegrated into the first team setup. Of course that's all hypothetical. It's almost like let's see if that's really the case. If and when it happens we can see the cracks in the relationship. Because Alexander Isak is not training with Eddie Howe's squad at Newcastle United. He didn't feature in any of their pre season games. And he's not expected to play at Aston Villa in their season opener on Saturday lunchtime. We all know that he wants to leave. And we all know that Liverpool have made an offer for him. £110 million there or thereabouts. And it's pretty well known that if there's any encouragement given to Liverpool that they will come and try to close a deal. It would take a price that Newcastle's ownership deem acceptable. And the PIF in particular. And also they need one or more replacements that they feel are adequate before they would consider sanctioning this. To answer your question. We don't know the final outcome. But it clearly is still possible that that potential move to to Liverpool would happen. That's what Alexander Isaac clearly wants. But Newcastle are in control of this situation. They hold him under contract until the summer of 2028. And let's see how the next couple of weeks go.
- [06:08]
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Yeah.
- [06:08]
Ayo Akebolere
That was my thought. Who's in control? And I think you just answered that very well there David. Jack. I just want to touch on something before we move on from from this is that. You know we've spoken on the pod a few times about how Newcastle have struggled to sign players. But is this a situation they find themselves in? I guess players like Wies coming through Elanga. Some might say tier 2 as opposed to the top. Top targets like in Buemo or whoever they wanted to get. Is that the precarious space they're in as a club?
- [06:34]
Jack Pitt Brook
So I think Newcastle have signed some good players this summer. I think so far what they've signed Alanga and Ramsdale. There's been Malik Teor as well for Macy Milan. I believe there's been talk about other potential moves. So they've done pretty well. I just wonder if they might be missing a bit of an opportunity. You know people often say you should. If you have to sell players. You should sell players when they're at their absolute peak of market value. I doubt they will ever make more money for Alexand than they could make this summer if they sold him. If they did sell him. Not only could they go and get a replacement as a number nine. But they could go and get very talented players from who could play in other positions who could elevate the whole team. So I think a moment like this can be a moment of opportunity for a club, but it feels at the moment like that's not really the position that Newcastle find themselves in.
- [07:19]
Ayo Akebolere
Okay, David. The theme of strikers just keeps on rolling in. One in particular. Ex Everton. Dominic Cavalt. Lewin, you dropped that today. What's the deal with him?
- [07:29]
David Ornstein
Yeah, he's on his way to Leeds United. There were a lot of clubs linked with Calvert Lewin after his contract at Everton expired at the end of last season. Clubs from the Premier League, clubs from abroad. And he is on many recruitment lists, even for the very top clubs. How high is a matter for discussion. But because he's a. He's a striker who has shown in his career that he has a very decent level. And when he's been fit, he's delivered. But for whatever reason, it wasn't clear what direction he was going to be going in. And maybe he wasn't at the top of some of the agendas for these clubs. But now, as we broke shortly before recording this podcast, Leeds United have reached an agreement in principle with Calvert Lewin to sign him as a free agent. And he is expected to be at the Thorpe Arch training ground imminently to undergo a medical and complete that move, which will be a huge boost to Leeds United who have been longing for a new striker. He's 28 years old. Yes, he's had a lot of injuries, but we also know what he's capable of delivering. So there had been some suggestions that Leeds were interested, but this is a really significant deal for them and let's see if it just gets over the line. And Leeds will feel a lot calmer, I think, and more comfortable heading into their season opener with Calvert Lewin on their side.
- [08:52]
Ayo Akebolere
Yeah. What do you make of this deal, Jack Calvert Lewin England INTERNATIONAL I know the injuries have really hurt him over the years, but realistically, a striker that's always shown some sort of promise.
- [09:02]
Jack Pitt Brook
Yeah, I think it'd be great if he could get back to the level that he showed which got him into the England squad in the first place. I think he scored, what, 16 Premier League goals in the 20, 20, 21 season. Been a difficult time in the last few years since then. Hasn't scored as many. Obviously struggled with injuries and fitness and so on. But if he can get back to that form that he had a few years ago which got him into the England squad. Remember, he played for England at Euro 2020, coming off the bench, replacing Harry Kane in some of those games. So there's clearly a Very talented player there and I think Leeds fans, I'm sure Leeds fans would love to see him back to his best.
- [09:32]
Ayo Akebolere
David, I don't know if I should ask you this one, but just because of the Arsenal interest. ERICI E Crystal palace wonder boy Talisman, some might say. Is it spurs or is it Arsenal?
- [09:43]
David Ornstein
What we hearing at the moment is Crystal palace because nobody has an agreement with them to sign E and of course we'll be talking about this as the transfer window draws towards a close because he's of interest to big clubs and I don't think Crystal palace have ever this summer been averse to the idea of him leaving. They know the idea of challenging himself at say, Champions League level is one that will carry great appeal. And if the finances had been right or are going to be right, then there could be a deal to be done. There's a lot of talk about this release clause, 60 plus 8 million pounds and when it expires. But even if there's no release clause there, that's the sort of money that palace would be looking for. And yeah, we know there's been strong interest from Arsenal and they'd had conversations with his camp. It now emerges that Tottenham have been holding some talks around the situation, but at the time of recording, to my knowledge, neither of those clubs are prepared to pay the level of finance that Crystal palace would be looking for at this moment to do the deal, as I said, around 68 million pounds, which was or is the release clause value. So unless that changes or those clubs are suddenly more willing to pay that amount of money, then he will stay with Crystal Palace. Whether that is beyond the transfer window, I don't know, because a lot can change. Or will Crystal palace come down in their asking price and then one of those clubs or another is prepared to do the deal? We know with Arsenal, the situation seemed to be linked to Ethan Wanieri's future. If he, and don't forget, he went into the last 12 months of his contract before signing a new deal. If he was going to leave, clearly Arsenal were lining up a deal for Eze for that same sort of position, the 810 role. With Ethan Wanyeri signing the new deal, which is amazing news for Arsenal, the need for Eze or another player in that position was less pressing and maybe they were then focusing on other areas. It's not that he's gone from the agenda. There's a great affection for Eze at Arsenal and vice versa. He grew up as a fan of the club. We're led to believe and so we need to keep an eye on that situation. But you know that there will be considerations at Arsenal on the price, on the age profile and on the position in the meantime. Yeah, Tottenham, with departure of son and injuries to the likes of Madison, they are looking at that number 10 role, but they're looking at multiple candidates. And again, that price might not be right for them with the age profile as well. And so the longer it goes towards the deadline, Crystal palace, the, their stance may harden because, you know, losing him and the financial cost, but also the positional need is going to be ever more sharp. The time is reducing to find a replacement at all, let alone a suitable replacement. And so this is not clear cut yet. There's no direction of travel right now and so a bit of patience is required and I think all outcomes are.
- [12:54]
Ayo Akebolere
Still possible where it makes most sense for him to move. There's a conversation here that I've been having that perhaps spurs could be a better move for him in that his qualities in that squad will probably be recognized probably a little bit more than they would if he moved to Arsenal. Feels like a luxury signing for Arsenal, but definitely the kind of player that spurs need.
- [13:15]
Jack Pitt Brook
I think if he signed for Tottenham, he would go in and be their best player this season, certainly their best attacking player because he's so good. Like he's such. Well, he's really proved this over the last, what, five years since he left QPR to go to Crystal Palace. Unbelievably good footballer. Like, he's so clever, he's so skillful, he's so imaginative. I love watching him play and I think he brings all those things, which is exactly what Tottenham need right now because Maddison's going to miss so much time this year because Kulasevski's recovering from his own knee surgery. You know, spurs, if you look at the spurs team, there's, you know, they've got some brilliant players in defense, you know, not least Romero and Van de Fen who I think are, you know, both world class centre backs. They've got some, they've got some pretty good players like in, in defensive midfield now and they've got some fairly good players in the front line, but they just need that bit of magic in that sort of number 10 space to knit it all together and to actually create the chances and to go from, you know, to turn possession into goals. And I think that's why, why they need Edda so much. And don't get me wrong, I think if he went, hypothetically, if he went To Arsenal. I think he'd do really well there. He's a. He's a really good player who would be elevated by the quality of the players playing around him. But I think at Tottenham he would be a bit more game changer. He'd be a bit more of a difference maker for them if he, if he does actually go there. Although, of course, you know, we're still at the moment as it stands, I don't think any bid has been made. So we've got to wait and see what, what exactly happens over the rest of the window.
- [14:38]
Ayo Akebolere
Yeah, we'll talk about spurs in more detail later on, Jack, but in terms of injuries, I mean, spurs need some personnel. Can you just bring us up to date with the injury list and also what's most pressing for them at this moment in time?
- [14:50]
Jack Pitt Brook
I think the most pressing thing for them at the moment is creativity in midfield. The big news of the last few weeks is that James Mad injured his ACL in the preseason friendly they played in Seoul. He's had surgery on that, but I imagine he'll be out for much of this forthcoming season. Diane Kulasevski obviously had knee surgery of his own in May. Thomas Frank recently said that he'll be out for a long time. So that's their two best creative players both out. And therefore I think it's only natural that they would be forced back into the market because they need some creativity in central midfield to get them through this season.
- [15:26]
Ayo Akebolere
Yeah, but also, let's give some credit. Kudos Molina through the door look like very good recruitment for spurs, but I mean, they're leaving it late, aren't they? I mean, the season's what, this weekend?
- [15:38]
Jack Pitt Brook
Yeah, so I mean, they've signed two players who will come in and improve the first 11, which frankly is more than they often sign over the course of a summer window. So that's good. But I think they just need more. I think they need a creative number 10. I think they need at least one more goal scorer, maybe another. Maybe another center back as well or someone who can play at left back too. So, yeah, I think they need at least two more players to keep the fans happy before the start of the season.
- [16:01]
Ayo Akebolere
Well, speaking of spurs, they're facing PSG tonight and it's the French side who are having a spot of goalkeeping bother. We'll get the latest on that next.
- [16:14]
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- [17:38]
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- [18:12]
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- [18:33]
Ayo Akebolere
So tonight, Wednesday night is the super cup versus PSG for Tottenham Hotspur in Udinese. Champions League winners versus Europa League winners. We'll talk more about spurs in just a moment, but we have to start David with PSG and donnarumma. Oh my goodness. Madness. A player who won the Champions League. A player that was pivotal to what they did last season and looking like there's no space for him in this squad.
- [18:59]
David Ornstein
Yeah, top quality goalkeeper. The privilege of watching him live On a couple of occasions last season, in particular the Champions League semi final second leg against Arsenal where he almost single handedly kept PSG in the tie which propelled them to the final that they ended up winning. Very popular member of the squad and player at the Parc des Prince and with the club as a whole and the fan base. But the contract situation clearly provides a headache for psg and it seems, and I don't know all the details of this, they weren't prepared to let him go into his final year and risk losing him for nothing. They had their eyes on a replacement who's extremely highly rated that they've now secured and you can't really carry two goalkeepers of that level as we've seen throughout football. In an ideal world, even though Donnarumo has the right to stay there under contract and, and let's see how that develops naturally, there will be huge interest in him from clubs all over the world, the biggest teams, including the Premier League, of course, and that's why you're seeing these links immediately. As far as we know, Chelsea and Manchester United do not have him on their agenda at the moment. Whether that changes, I don't know, but that was made pretty clear when stories started to emerge around them. I think there may be some level of interest from Manchester City, but they've got Edison at the moment. There are no immediate plans for Edison to go, despite what we're hearing and reading. If that changes, do they then look to do Donnaruma? We'll see. But of course they bought in James Trafford and I think in many of the conversations with Trafford around his signing, it was indicated to the player that he'd be regarded as first choice or in and amongst, you know, the, the thinking of Pep Guardiola for that position. So a lot of thought will need to go into this and, and at the moment it's all kind of hypotheticals and the slots aren't there in terms of either interest or, or clubs that can do it. Make no mistake, this will be an incredible signing for somebody, but it's easier said than done and so we'll have to wait and see how the next couple of weeks go.
- [21:10]
Ayo Akebolere
Yeah. Donna Moore put out a statement on Tuesday night, Jack, saying someone has decided they don't want me. I mean, come on, man. Like this guy was so, I mean, he's been incredible last season. Why on earth do you think a team would. Would get rid of him? Doesn't fit the system.
- [21:25]
Jack Pitt Brook
Well, I'm not sure. I mean, maybe when you're right at the top and you've just won the. The Champions League, maybe that's the best time to make a change. If you're gonna. If the contract situation means that you're gonna have to make a change at some point, perhaps. Perhaps it's best to do so from a position of strength. And you can certainly see that mean Donnarummer was unbelievably good, as David said in the Champions League run last season. Pulled out some colossal saves in massive moments. But maybe. Maybe he's not the best with his feet. Maybe Luis Enrique might think it's a time to change the style a bit, get in a keeper who is better with his feet. You know, I remember when he arrived at PSG in the first place and he had to compete with Kaylor Navas to be number one. And it always felt to me like Navas was actually a better stylistic fit for how Pochino wanted to play. Navas was better with his feet than Donnarumma. So sometimes these things happen and think managers want to take the team in a different direction.
- [22:14]
Ayo Akebolere
Football is ruthless, man. All right, Jack, let's talk about your speciality subject. Spurs. Look, first competitive game for Thomas Frank. PSG aren't going to be easy, but, you know, spurs announced their new captain on Wednesday morning. Talk to us. Who is it?
- [22:28]
Jack Pitt Brook
Cristian Romero.
- [22:30]
Ayo Akebolere
Wow.
- [22:31]
Jack Pitt Brook
Four years after he joined Tottenham. I think it's. Yeah, I think it's a really exciting move to have him as captain. I think that. I think it was probably the obvious choice. You know, he was one of the vice captains with James Madison over the last two years. Obviously Madison's going to miss a lot of this season with that knee. With that knee injury. Romero really kind of proved his. I mean, he was captain from the start for the. For the Europa League final in Bilbao in May, and he really proved his leadership skills. And what an amazing. What like a kind of. Of passionate but also really convincing leader he can be in those big games. So I think Romero was the obvious choice. I would have been really surprised if it had been anybody else other than him. And I think he really deserves it as well for how good he's been, particularly the back end of last season.
- [23:20]
Ayo Akebolere
Do you know how he connects with the rest of the team as well? Because you think about leadership skills, I can see why they might go for it on the field. He's been one of their warriors, really, when he's fit. But how does he connect with all the other players and what are his attributes in that respect?
- [23:31]
Jack Pitt Brook
I think I get the impression. He's more of a lead by example guy than a big talker. He says in the interview that he's done, which spurs published a day where he's talking in English, which is not something we see from him. I think he's open about the fact he's not super confident talking English in public, but I know that he really sort of sets the tone. So I know that in Bilbao, for the Europa League final in May, he was the one, I think, more than anybody else in that group, who on the day of the game, kind of got the players together and made sure that they had exactly the right mindset, the right focus as they were building up to the final. And then on the pitch, he's the one leading the team. Team talks. He's the one setting the example. And I think it makes total sense, right, because this is a guy who's got an unbelievable record in big games. You know, he's. He's played a World Cup. He's played and won a World cup final in which. In which he was so good, unbelievably good as he was that whole tournament, really, for Argentina. He's won two Copa Americas with Argentina as well. And I think what we saw at the back end of last season for spurs as they won the Europa League was we really saw Argentina, Romero playing for Tottenham, which we haven't always seen that consistently, but we did see it the back end of last season. And I just think his. The way that he. He brings this kind of calmness and intelligence and like, ruthless determination and forensic focus. All those things that he brings to the really big games and to the biggest stage of all, that's how he captains. That's the leadership that he shows, and he wants to bring people with him. And I think if spurs see that, you know, spurs see that every week or even twice a week this season, then I think they'll be in a good place.
- [25:06]
Ayo Akebolere
I want to talk about Thomas Frank, because we've all been waiting for him to get a big job. The work he's done at Brentford has been brilliant under very little money as well, if you think about it. But this is a massive step up. In his first season, he's straight into the Champions League. Is he well equipped to make that jump, does it seem?
- [25:27]
Jack Pitt Brook
Well, he doesn't have. He doesn't have experience of managing at that level. Like, I believe he's managed a few. I think he managed a few European games with Bronby when he was starting his career in Denmark, but he doesn't Have a lot of. He doesn't have a lot of top end Champions League experience certainly. But that's not to say he can't learn like he's an incredibly smart guy. He is. He's learned an awful lot. I think during his time at Brentford. I think he kind of. He always gives the impression that he takes on stuff really well and that he's very, very. He's very, very quick to learn new skills. I think it's gonna be a big task. Not because he doesn't have Champions League experience, because I think he can learn that. I think it's gonna be a big task because don't really think the spurs squad is good enough or deep enough. Two competitions at the same time. We saw that last season, you know, they had to. They had a terrible season in the Premier League. They had to prioritize the Europa League, that went great for them, but they had that one, you know, they had their worst Premier League season for ages. They came 17. So I just think it's, I think like the job of managing and allocating those resources through the course of the season. It's going to be difficult and it's going to test Frank to the maximum. And I think that is what is going to make this a difficult season for Tottenham.
- [26:35]
Ayo Akebolere
I guess the obvious question for me in terms of, of looking back and where spurs are right now is how does he communicate his ideas in comparison to Andepostecoglou? For instance, the league form for spurs wasn't that great and we know where they finished last season, European champion. So you can't take that away from them. But in terms of how players are taking onto his ideas, have you seen anything through this sort of preseason period that make you get a sense of.
- [26:57]
Jack Pitt Brook
Yeah, it's a good question. So I think Frank and Postecoglou are both in their own ways, really, really good communicators. So I think, I mean Postecoglou is an amazing communicator, but he was very much. A lot of his approach was based having this kind of one, you know, kind of big pre match meeting where he would get all his points across and he would do like a really inspiring motivational speech and he'd get all the players on board and he was so good at that. But I think kind of day to day he would sort of take a bit of a step back from the players. You know, he wasn't, that wasn't a big arm around the shoulder guy. Not a lot of small talk, not a lot of chit chat. He would generally let most of his coaches do most of the training day in, day out and he would kind of, he would take. He would step back and he would just make sure he had that distance so he could assess how things were going and he could use that in case he had to make objective decisions. Whereas Thomas Frank I think will be a bit more hands on day to day, more maybe a bit more arm around the shoulder, a bit more get to know you, maybe a bit more, a bit more small talk. I think he's. I think they're both really good communicators in their different ways. But I think the question really will be whether Frank's different approach to players will be able to produce that kind of consistency in the league and in Europe. That Tottenham really need to see that.
- [28:11]
Ayo Akebolere
And Jack East Basuma has been left out of the super cup side. What's going on there?
- [28:16]
Jack Pitt Brook
Yeah, so Thomas Frank made an example in his pre match press conference on Tuesday evening in Udine talking about how Bissouma's timekeeping and how that's why he'd be. He's been punished for. For not showing up on time. Look, Frank is not. Frank is not the first Tottenham manager to criticize Ippissouma's attitude and application. I imagine he'll probably be the last one. I don't know. I don't know if Bissouma will get around to another Tottenham manager. I mean, look, I'm slightly surprised that Bissouma's still there. I mean, clearly, you know, if they got a good offer for him, I'm sure that would be the end of his time at Spurs. But he's, he is still there. I'm. I wonder if they might be able to find a buyer for him. I think it's a shame because Bissouma is such talented player. Like we saw that in the end of last season. You know, he's brilliant. The Europa League semifinals against Beaude Glim, Europa League final against Man United. But he probably needs to apply himself a bit better if he's going to make himself a big part of Thomas Frank's plans week in, week out.
- [29:09]
Ayo Akebolere
Okay, buckle up spurs fans. Next. You've got PSG the big time now. Right, let's end with a hop around the other names, viewing the transfer rumor machine. Next.
- [29:29]
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- [29:32]
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- [29:35]
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- [30:05]
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- [30:42]
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- [31:38]
Ayo Akebolere
David Liverpool need a center back Judging by what we saw in the Community shield, where are they looking at the moment?
- [31:43]
David Ornstein
Yeah, well, it's clear that Mark Gay is a player of interest and we reported on the Athletic that some talks are taking place between Liverpool and Crystal palace as Liverpool explore whether a deal deal can be done. I think some of the reporting got ahead of the Reality because Mark Gahey has a big decision on his hands in this as well because he's into the last 12 months of his contract. He's captain of Crystal Palace. It's a World cup year where he's got a place in the England team and he doesn't want to lose it by maybe being second choice if he was to move. And he's perfectly entitled to stay for the final 12 months of his deal and leave as a free agent in the summer of 2026. There's no expectation right now of him signing a new deal at PAL and he is very happy there. So if he was to leave there, I think Liverpool would be the choice. Newcastle's not been on the agenda for Newcastle nor for Gehe this summer as it was a year ago. And palace may be kicking themselves that they didn't cash in on him when Newcastle came at what you know, £65 million or something like that. And I think they do want to sell him now because the idea of losing him for nothing as Steve Parrish talked publicly about after the community shield is pretty unappealing. But that doesn't mean they will get their wish. And Liverpool in those circumstances will have a price that they're prepared to go to. Whether that's acceptable for Crystal palace we'll have to wait and see. Do they sit it out and wait to take him on a try to take him as a free agent in. In the summer of 2026 like many other clubs might be looking to do. So that is one that is. It's active but we don't know the final outcome of it yet. And it. It wouldn't surprise me if he stays at palace for that final year year.
- [33:28]
Ayo Akebolere
Is there another defender on Liverpool's list?
- [33:31]
David Ornstein
It's not one or the other. They're looking at Leone from Parma and there are negotiations taking place and so that's one that could get done. But there's also interest from. From Italian teams in him and others and so, you know, not guaranteed. And clearly the young player has a decision to make if he's ready to leave Italy. Others have tried in the past and and not managed to convince him. So let's see if Liverpool succeed in that. But it's definitely one that could happen.
- [33:59]
Ayo Akebolere
Well, David, before you go, I just want to mine your brain very, very quickly one last time. I want to squeeze you dry. Give me two names in your book right now that we've not mentioned in the pod that we should be looking out for before the transfer window closes.
- [34:13]
David Ornstein
I guess we need to pay attention to the number six at Manchester United because that's a position that they're really keen to fill. Their top target is Carlos Baleber of Brighton and Hove Albion. They're looking into the situation, exploring it via intermediaries on their behalf. Brighton have no intention of selling this summer. They'd prefer to keep him for at least another year and to our knowledge, they've not put a price on it yet. If that price comes and it's too high for Manchester United, then they'll presumably go away. If it's achievable, maybe they continue to follow up the case. From what we know, Biliba would be open to the possibility and that means personal terms wouldn't be a problem. And Man United players have. Have been in contact with him, sort of talking about a potential move and, and the project and ambition, etc. So definitely that's an interesting case. If they don't get him, do they look to somebody else? Because it really is important for. For Ruben Amarim and the club, as is their goalkeeping situation. But at the moment there's no sign of a departure for Andre Onana. And then maybe Tottenham, you know, they're looking at all different possibilities because of injury, because of departures. We've talked about some of what about Savinho at Manchester City. They would really like to sign him. Some conversations have been held that focused on, you know, a deal in the region of 50 million euros. Clearly, Manchester City, if there's going to be any departure, and I say that with a capital if, because the word coming from the Etihad is that there was an inquiry, it was rebuffed and it's going no further. But if they were to consider parting with him, it would take, evidently, a far higher number. Are Tottenham willing to stretch that far? If they are, then possibly there could be a deal because we think he would be open to the chance. And Pep Guardiola we've seen historically, tends not to stand in the way of players if they don't want to be there. Should he leave the Etihad, then City would look to replace him, as I understand it, and they've been linked with Rodrigo and various others, whereas the departures of, say, a Grealish and a Matee wouldn't necessarily require a replacement. So maybe we'll look at both Manchester clubs in the case of the six, and the goalkeeper at United and the winger situation at City, and throw Tottenham into the mix because they're related to that transaction or potential deal.
- [36:33]
Ayo Akebolere
Nice one, brother. Really Appreciate your time. I know you've got to go, but thanks so much for joining us.
- [36:38]
David Ornstein
Anytime.
- [36:39]
Ayo Akebolere
Well, one player we haven't mentioned is Jack Grealish on today's pod and he's joined Everton on loan with potential to buy at the end of the season. It's so interesting, Grealish, because we haven't seen the best of him. Well, especially last season at City. Is this a move that makes sense, Sense for him?
- [36:57]
Jack Pitt Brook
Oh, yeah, yeah. I think he had to. I think he needs to play like he's not really. Didn't really play that much last season at City. I think that he's. I think he's a player who, I think he needs to feel a degree of, you know, importance and trust as well. He needs to really feel part of things. I love Grealish. I love watching him when he's on it, when he's happy and I really hope that. I think, I think this move to Everton could be perfect for him because I think they're, you know, David Moyes obviously rebuilt some foundations there, which is really important to them, but when you do rebuild the foundations, what you really need after that is a little bit of. A little bit of stardust, a little bit of magic. I think he can do that. And I really hope that the. I was going to say the fans at Goodison, they don't play at Goodison anymore. The fans at the new Everton Stadium will really warm to Grealish and get behind him because if they can, I think he's a player who, if he feels the support of the manager and he feels the support of the fans, he can do anything he wants. We know he's such a good player and I hope this will be the, this will be a really good year for him.
- [37:52]
Ayo Akebolere
Yeah. Very quickly on Grealish. There'll be a lot of people listening to this going, why on earth didn't work. Work out at Manchester City? I mean, they paid a whole heap of money for him, you know, star of England, all that kind of stuff. We saw what I did at Villa. Why do you not think those, those ingredients didn't work at Manchester City in particular?
- [38:09]
Jack Pitt Brook
Yeah, it's a really good question. So I think my, my, my interpretation of this would be that Grealish is. Grealish is maybe a bit more of an individual. Like he wants, you know, he, that's why he was so good for Aston Villa. Like, he, it's not just that he wants a team built around him, but he wants the freedom to express himself. He wants the freedom to take risks and the freed mistakes or lose the ball and the freedom to try things. Whereas I think that the way that City play under Guardiola is so kind of programmed, right? Like it's so like Pep knows exactly how he wants the players to play in every different circumstance. And so the players have to learn an awful lot of complex patterns which they then go out and try and replicate on the pitch. Whereas I feel like with Grealish, like with City, you don't really. So if you play for City, you don't really get the same freedom that he would have earlier in his career at Aston Villa. And while in some senses his time at City was hugely successful, you know, he won tons of trophies and not least he won the Champions League and he made some massive contributions on the way to City winning the Champions League as well. He had some brilliant moments, you know, scored at Real Madrid and so on. But I just think that so much of his game, for me it looks like it's about freedom and expression and I feel like, like under a manager like Guardiola who's so focused on details, he was never quite going to get that freedom.
- [39:27]
Ayo Akebolere
All right, gents, let's end it there. Jack, appreciate your time and David, thanks so much for joining us. That's it from us. We're back tomorrow.
- [39:37]
David Ornstein
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavro and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aiden Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free spend search for the athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [40:08]
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