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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
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Welcome to The Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Yesterday Liverpool made an approach to sign Alexander Isak and now they've also made a move to sign Antrecht Fangfurt forward Ugo Ekatike. So could they get them both? So here with us today we have the Athletics, David Ornstein, as well as our Liverpool correspondent James Pearce as well. Right, David, we'll get into ESAC shortly and I've got a bone to pick with you about that because you said I should calm down when I spoke about him in a previous podcast. But firstly, let's get into it. Eintrek Frankfurt. Hugo Ekatike, a player who's been hot on the lips of Newcastle, but also hot on the lips of Liverpool as well. Do we know where this player might be ending up?
Host 1
I said you should calm down and I think we should all still keep calm. But I'm not sure I'll have any success in urging people to do that because there's so much excitement around all of this and trepidation depending on what camp you sit in. If we jump straight into Ek, he is obviously a player who's been of significant interest to many clubs for quite some time now, even though he's only 23 years old and has jumped between Ream and PSG and now Eintracht Frankfurt. Newcastle have tried to sign him, I think twice previously, most recently 2022. They've come again. Will it be third time lucky? Well, they did make an offer for him, I think that was in around 80 million euros. 75 million. We understand it's been rejected by Eintracht Frankfurt. It is a situation that Newcastle have been working on. Their interest is ongoing, but we just simp don't know the outcome of it so far. Meanwhile, he has also been on the recruitment list of clubs like Liverpool. And just before recording this podcast we reported on the Athletic that Liverpool have made contact with Eintracht Frankfurt about a possible deal to sign Hugo Ekatike. They're exploring it. An approach has been made like they made an approach to Newcastle for Alexander Isak and communicated a willing willingness to do a deal in the region of £120 million. So it appears as an outsider that they're working on these two situations at the same time. Well, Newcastle are in a way as well because they're trying to sign Ekitike and they intend to keep Alexander Isaac and not sell him to Liverpool. They want to retain him and buy Ekatike. And a short answer to your question is that we have no idea how this is going to end up. And there could yet be more twists and turns and other players coming into the picture because no doubt these clubs will have alternative options. And that's what makes this transfer window box office to some and absolute hell to others.
Host 2
So basically, Alexander Isak is no closer to going to Liverpool from Newcastle or we don't really know where either of these players might really end up. I mean, this is actually quite bizarre because I know there's fans from either side going, are we getting a striker? Are we getting a second striker? It's so strange.
Host 1
Yeah, we don't know the outcome and that's all we can report, which will be frustrating. And these things don't just sort of happen overnight. On occasions they do, but in this one it's going to take some time, it would appear, to unravel, especially when you've got a club as belligerent as Newcastle and their owners, Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia, who have always been clear that they don't intend to sell Alexander Isaac this summer. And they've told that to clubs who might have been interested in him ahead of this window and I'm sure during it as well. They're in a strong position in terms of his contract has three years left to run on it. They're paying him a high salary. He has Champions League football. Their finances and their PSR compliance seems to be in better shape right now. We're not aware of Isak kicking off and demanding to leave and so they will try to keep him at St. James's park, but that does not stop clubs trying. And you know, you sense that Liverpool, whoever else, would only make an approach like this if there was some level of encouragement, wherever that may be from, I don't think they would just randomly go for it. And they have indeed made that approach. But in terms of where it goes next, I think a little bit of time is required. Will Newcastle's stance shift? We've seen no sign of it so far. Will Alexander Isaac agitate to leave? We've seen no sign of it so far, but there's quite a lot of distance to go before that transfer window shuts and we've got no indication that Liverpool are just going to drop their interest, for example. So it's ongoing and it's going to keep us talking.
Host 2
Yeah. I mean, James jokingly on a previous podcast with you and David said that if Liverpool managed to get ecked, they would have completed the transfer window. But I mean, whether or not he goes that the fact that this is even a conversation, I Mean what does he say about the intent of Liverpool ahead of next season? Because you know we've been through the times where Liverpool have done really well and then sort of dipped off a slope the season after. It looks like they're punching all the way here.
David Ornstein
Yeah, they certainly can't be accused of lacking ambition, can they? And when you look at what they've already achieved this summer in the market, I mean you know to, to break their transfer record, shatter it really. To bring in Florian Wirtz the. The gem of German football in terms of adding creativity. And now I think, you know, they're quite right to test Newcastle's resolve to the limit really over Alexander Isak because he is the best number nine around. Why would you not try and shop at the absolute top level? And that's, that's what Liverpool, they're in a position now to be able to do. You know, for. For so long we talked about Liverpool quite often having to do things differently and having to find value and you know, untapped gems that then they could elevate and develop into that world class bracket. But we've seen with the Wirt Steel and now we're seeing with you know, how high they're aiming with the pursuit of a new number nine that they're shopping in different areas these days.
Host 2
Yeah, I was just talking about you know obviously Liverpool punching a lot this transfer window. But you know there was a time where you know, Jurgen Klopp made a point on how Liverpool were once unable to compete financially with the likes of Manchester City. Nobody can compete with City in that you have the best team in the world and you put in the best striker on the market.
Host 1
But what does Liverpool cannot act like them.
Host 2
It's not possible. But have now broken the British transfer record bringing in Florian Wirtz. I mean what has changed since that time? And would you get an indication that Liverpool are now moving into a new era where actually they're willing to spend and battle it with the biggest in the league?
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think what's changed is just where the club is at as a financial force really. I wouldn't say there's been any sea change in terms of the strategy. I just think it's the reality of where they're at now. You know, when you speak to senior figures at fsg they talk about the virtuous circle, you know, about how success on the pitch enables you to, you know, to generate more money off it. And then of course the business model is then that all that gets reinvested, you Know, into a more, you know, into a stronger, deeper squad that hopefully brings more success. And that circle just keeps going around and I think we've seen, we've seen the results of that this season. You think of fsg, you know, redeveloping Anfield, you know, matchday revenues are now at an absolute record level. Commercially, they're really, really punching their weight now. When you look at the blue chip companies and the sponsors deals they've done there, the new Adidas deal kicking in at the start of next month, you know, on Sunday they're off on a very lucrative preseason tour of Hong Kong and Japan. And then of course, you know, coming off the back of the financial dividends of a run in, a big run in the Champions League and winning the Premier League. So, yeah, that is kind of where we're at. There hasn't just been a kind of, right, well, we're ditching the way we did things now. We're going to, you know, try and be Manchester City. This, this is very much just indicative of where Liverpool are as a club now. And, and of course, you know, whether they get Isak or Katiki, they will also raise a lot of money from sales. I think there's no doubt about that in the, in the next week or so. Darwin Nunes and people like Harvey Elliott and Tyler Morton and obviously there's the ongoing uncertainty of a Luis Diaz. So I think for all Liverpool fans, in terms of where they're punching in the market, it's. It kind of, really kind of enthuses them for what's coming up, for sure.
Host 2
I mean, obviously James, you know, potential signings and transfers remain quite sensitive at Liverpool, especially the death of Diego Jota, along his brother Andre Silva in a car accident in Spain earlier this month. I mean, it's, it's important to understand that the football club still needs to run. You know, there is still a season ahead they're trying to prepare for as well.
David Ornstein
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it would, it goes without saying, it's. It's far from business as usual because anyone that saw the scenes at Preston last weekend, when they returned to the football pitch, it was incredibly emotionally charged and you know, all those players and staff are still dealing with, you know, unimaginable grief. But as you said, Arna Slott has talked about them having to try and find a way through this. And of course, part of that is trying to honor Diogo's memory in terms of what they achieve going forward as a unit, because they know that's what he would have he would have wanted Liverpool to be successful. And of course this pursuit of a number nine as well goes way beyond that. You think back to the back end of last season, there were a lot of games when slot turned to Luis Diaz used him as a false nine. Darwin Nunes had a disappointing season. I think only seven goals in all competitions. So an upgrade in that in that kind of number nine role has been on the cards for for a long, long time.
Host 3
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Host 1
Oh yeah. That would ease any kind of concerns and some that Newcastle might have had and it will give them huge room to maneuver in the market if they made a sale of that magnitude. I'm not saying they're selling Alexander Isaac, we're just literally looking at the numbers and you know that they do have some headroom now because of the work that they've done in recent times. They've not made a senior signing, have they for a few windows and they have recoup money from. From sales. We remember that mad 6-30-2024 when they had to do a lot of maneuvering to make themselves compliant and that effort continued into. Into January and we thought it was going to continue this summer. I mean I reported on Tuesday night that they'd reached an agreement with Leeds United to sell Sean Longstaff. And that deal is worth up to sort of £15 million. It's not a bad return on a player who was into the last 12 months of his contract and hadn't really played in the calendar year 2025. So there's some good work going on there. Of course a big sale would put them in a great position financially. But I don't think that's the driver. Now that they've kind of got their house in order. They showed with Anthony Elanga that they had room to do business and that's a really good signing. They want to Keep Alexander Isaac. They want to sign Hugo Ekatike. I know a lot of people have looked at this and said, well, you can't carry Isaac and Ekatike because they're similar profiles. Eddie Howe has never played with two up front. The financial cost of signing Ektike means you can't leave him on the bench for a season and integrate him. He won't accept that. These are all hypotheticals. Like Newcastle intend to have both of them but your intention doesn't necessarily come to fruition. We've got no sense of there being an agreement between Newcastle and Eintracht Frankfurt or that even being close. No sense of an agreement between Newcastle and Hugo Ekatike on personal terms or it even being close. So it's hard to say how all of this will shake up. And there are ways that Newcastle could operate that will allow them to comply through different means. I don't want people making a big headline of this, but take Anthony Gordon for example. He was pursued by Liverpool a year ago. There's been interest in him from other clubs. What if he or somebody else. Tino Livramento has been linked with Manchester City? I'm not saying Newcastle are planning to sell these players. I'm just picking names at random that have been in the public domain and what if they trade one of them and manage to balance the books in other ways? So we don't know of some major PSR concern that, you know, Liverpool are trying to prey on in, in their pursuit of Isaac. It's a pursuit that, that's organic and, and we'll see if it comes to fruition or not. It would be very interesting because Liverpool tend not to spend that sort of money for, for that age profile. Isaac is 25. He. He'd be 26. They had opportunities to sign players I think in January, like a Mahmou, for example, who's, who's the same age at the time that Isaac is now 25. And they didn't push to the sort of financial limits Manchester City were prepared to go to. So this would be a departure. But maybe you make departures for, for really special players and, and at the same time they're exploring the, the Ektike situation themselves. Who's a younger profile. And I think it's really interesting James's analysis on the. The financial situation of Liverpool and a lot of Manchester City and other fans sort of saying where's this all coming from? And the truth is that you can't judge it for anyone. And the same applied to Manchester City until The end of these windows. Firstly, Liverpool have kept a huge amount of powder dry. They didn't make a senior signing apart from sort of Mama Dashvili last summer they went in for Zubamendi. That didn't come to fruition and now that's given them a strong financial position. Obviously Trent Alexander Arnold has left and his salary's gone from the wage bill and so they've got resources and they've also shown themselves to be good sellers and there are a number of players in the team that you look at and think, wow, that could bring in some real finance. So the reality is it's just too early to judge and Liverpool have balanced the books pretty well in recent years.
Host 2
Yeah. Quickly on Ekatike James, you know, similar profile to Isak, but you think Isak is naturally the upgrade based on the fact that we've seen him play in the Premier League and actually operate consistently at a good level in the Premier League. If they don't get Isak, what's the conversation here? Is Ekhatek the next best thing for. For Liverpool in the fact that if Darwin Nunez leaves, actually there's a player there we can really work with? I know he's not proven, but actually with the team around him, he could probably prosper quite well at Liverpool?
David Ornstein
Yeah, I believe so, yeah. I think it goes without saying that Isak is the plan A and of course you do everything you possibly can to. To get that before you. Before you deviate away from it. Because, you know, as you said, Premier League proven is A ASAK is the absolute real deal Finished article. Is he? Only. Only Mohamed Salah scored more Premier League goals than him last season. I think with Ekatiki it's a bit more of a gamble because of course he hasn't played in the league before. He's younger, probably a bit more raw, a bit more of a project signing, I'd say, than someone who's guaranteed to come in and hit the ground running. But when you look around Europe at what other options are out there. Yeah, he is still, for me, he's still a massive upgrade on what they've already got. I think. What was it, 22 goals in all comps for Eintracht Frankfurt last season. And still it would be a massive, massive financial investment. It's not like missing out on Caicedo and buying endo for 16 million. You're still talking about kind of 80 to 90 million pounds it'll probably take to get Ekatiki over the line. So either way it's a big statement. Of intent.
Host 2
Yeah. Based on how they finished last season. Liverpool. David, you'd think the stronger offer or team that if I was, I'm just putting myself in Ekatika's shoes. Liverpool would feel like a much more enticing offer based on what they achieved last season. And also players like Florian Vert playing there as well. For instance. You know this is also a player that contributed 12 assists as well as 22 goals in all competitions last season.
Host 1
Yes, it'd be disrespectful to define Liverpool as being more attractive than Newcastle. But Liverpool is a really attractive proposition in terms terms of chances of competing for the biggest honors on a regular basis and everything that comes with Liverpool. At the same time, Newcastle in the Champions League they've got really ambitious project. They've got a great manager in Eddie Howe. And it's an exciting opportunity for players to come in and play regular first team football. Get a huge amount of game time under their belt in front of an incredible fan base. There's a huge amount of football to be played at all of these clubs. So even if you are from Newcastle's perspective, say they kept Isak and managed to get Ekitike and everybody's saying how would it all work. But you know, there are injuries, there are different competitions, there's rotation. And that would be the same at Liverpool. It'd be really interesting to see with Liverpool whether Darwin Nunes stays or leaves. Of course the expectation is he's going to leave and if so it gives Liverpool even more financial resource to maneuver. But the moves haven't come to fruition just yet. We've known about the Al Hilal and Napoli interest for example. But he's still there for now and nothing seems to be close. And if he did stay, which is unlikely but a possibility, then Liverpool may have to go for a more financially viable option. Maybe a slightly different profile. Yeah, there's attractiveness for both of these clubs. Of course. Liverpool really are one of the hottest tickets in world football right now. But. But that doesn't mean it's. It's right for every player. And there are many factors that go into these decisions. The football side of things. Also the financial side, the salary offers, the agents commissions, the future steps. You know, some clubs they put in release clauses to allow players to go on in the future. Or there's gentlemen's agreements understanding. Do you see it as a step? Like you know, certain clubs sell themselves as being a step on the journey to a different level. Others they are the end journey. And so it's not quite as straightforward as sometimes we think.
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Host 2
Well, on Tuesday, David, talk to me about this one. You reported that Liverpool rejected Bayern Munich's opening bid for Luis Diaz and that their stance so far has been that the Colombian isn't up for sale. But I'm still hearing things. What's the latest? Are Bayern expected to improve their offer?
Host 1
Yeah, the Luis Diaz situation is fascinating because, oh, there's a lot of interest in him. Bayern, as you say there, Barcelona, Saudi Arabia and you know, even a year ago I think Manchester City were in the frame for him. For example, there's been no new contract since he joined in was it January 2022? And in normal circumstances players would be renewed by now, let alone players of such caliber. There's no doubt that he loves Liverpool and Liverpool love him. Their stance is that he's not for sale and you know they value him for sort of auditing purposes as opposed to a a sales position at bargaining stance at in excess of £100 million. But, but with no new contracts on the horizon for whatever reason, you know, they, they would rather have the value of Luis Diaz for another couple of years on the pitch and they've shown they're not afraid to do that. When you saw that Mo Salah, Trent Alexander Arnold and Virgil van Dijk went into their final years, it may be the case with Ibrahima Konate as well this summer. Well, Diaz has got two years, but Diaz, because of presumably this contract situation and the interest in him, we understand he's made clear his wish to leave Liverpool and I don't think that's in a disrespectful way, but it's, it's maybe for all the factors explained. Bayern Munich have come to the party with an official offer that we reported and it was rejected immediately. So let's see if they, they come back in for him. Is clearly quite a delicate situation. But you know, I think there's not been sort of hostility among the fan base reacting to that story. They kind of understand this is, this is not an easy one. If in the event that somebody paid what Liverpool are looking for and Diaz was, was keen on the move, then it, it creates all sorts of questions about what Liverpool do as a potential replacement to, to add to their attack. And that would be the next chapter. But for now, yeah, there's an unclear situation with Diaz and it really is very important because I think Liverpool have been planning with him to be a firm part of Anerslot's team for next season. And so if he is to be extracted out of there, it causes a bit of a problem. But Liverpool have tended to show themselves as being quite adept at solving them.
Host 2
Yeah, James, I mean Luis Diaz has been in the headlines through this whole transfer period and David's just mentioned his name there again, you know, he's made it clear that he wants to leave the club. Are there any concerns as to wider unrest behind the scenes or is this just an individual case?
David Ornstein
No, I think it's a very individual case. I think you go back to last summer and there was a lot of noise about Diaz's future then. And speaking to people, it was pretty clear reading between the lines that there was a push from his camp to try and get improved terms, an extension on better money. There's been some kind of erroneous reports I've seen over the months suggesting he was on as little as 60, 70,000 pound a week. I'm told that is. That just isn't true, you know, it just doesn't make any sense, does it? On the basis that we're talking about a 50 million pound signing from three years ago and obviously all Liverpool's contracts are heavily incentivized and you look at what they've achieved and what Diaz has done for the team since then. So yeah, I mean even before these approaches from Barcelona and Bayern Munich, which I think we all know in the modern game, they don't, they don't tend to happen unless they've had some encouragement from the players side of things. Liverpool have been very relaxed about it as, as David said, you know, they're not going to get kind of pushed into giving an extension that they don't feel they need to give because when you look at his current deal it takes him up to the age of 30. So of course, you know, immediately then you're thinking, well, do you really want to commit vast sums of money potentially till he's 32 or 33, which is what those discuss would be about and yeah, or are you better off, you know, just keep keeping him for what he can give the team for the next year or two. Because you know, I think Liverpool are absolutely right to, to snub 60 million for him because he scored 17 goals in all competitions last season. That was his most prolific campaign for the club. You know, versatile as well, played through the middle at times as well as off the left where we've mainly seen him. So yeah, I think unless Bayern or someone else come back with upwards of 80 to 90, I think Liverpool to kind of hold their ground. And I think we've seen which the way they operate previously, they're not going to get bullied into any kind of deal that they're not completely happy with. And I think Diaz will accept whatever Liverpool decide. I don't think there's any concern about the possible implications of keeping someone whose head is elsewhere. I don't think that is a concern at the minute.
Host 2
I wonder what Diaz's departure would mean for Liverpool's transfer business. David, beyond potentially signing one of either Isaac or Ekatik.
Host 1
Well, I imagine they would have to replace him. And you don't take lightly to the loss of such a. An important integral part of your team, your squad and what he offers in terms of, of goals, attacking, threat, assists. Liverpool will be looking at options. They're always doing that and, and they're one of the best recruitment operations around. They're not going to sanction the departure of somebody like Luis Diaz. And unless they had somebody lined up or some options or a very clear chain of thought on what to do next. You know, there's other things they need to consider in their attacking department, such as Harvey Elliott, a player who barely played last season yet was player of the Tournament at the euro, under 21s and there's quite a lot of interest in him, could well go abroad. We reported that in the deal sheet recently, and that would generate significant funds and other bits and bobs as well. So. So, you know, whatever materializes in terms of potential outgoings, I think Liverpool will probably have a fairly clear picture in their head of what they want to do and probably execute it as well. But it's all hypothetical at the moment because so many of these situations are in flux.
Host 2
All right, gents, let's end it there. David James, appreciate your insight and also thank you guys for listening as well. We'll be back on Friday. Catch you then.
Host 1
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aili Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production the Athletic.
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The Athletic FC Podcast Summary
Episode Title: Ornstein Transfer Latest: Liverpool Move for Isak & Ekitike
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Hosts: Ayo Akinwolere, featuring David Ornstein and James Pearce
The episode kicks off with host Ayo Akinwolere introducing the main topics: Liverpool's recent approaches to sign Alexander Isak from Newcastle and Ugo Ekitike from Eintracht Frankfurt. David Ornstein and Liverpool correspondent James Pearce join the discussion to delve into the intricacies of these potential transfers.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“It's an ongoing situation and it's going to keep us talking.”
— Ayo Akinwolere [03:19]
David Ornstein provides an in-depth analysis of Alexander Isak's potential move. Newcastle has reportedly rejected an €75 million offer from Liverpool, emphasizing their desire to keep Isak. The conversation highlights Newcastle's strong financial position, backed by their ownership from the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia, which allows them to maintain player salaries and offers stability.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“They intend to keep Alexander Isak and not sell him to Liverpool.”
— David Ornstein [05:30]
Discussing Liverpool's broader transfer strategy, Ornstein emphasizes the club's ambition to compete at the highest levels by making significant signings. The acquisition of Florian Wirtz and the pursuit of Isak demonstrate Liverpool's shift towards a more aggressive transfer approach, moving away from their traditional model of developing untapped talent.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“Liverpool, they’re in a position now to be able to do... they’re shopping in different areas these days.”
— David Ornstein [07:47]
The hosts explore how Newcastle could benefit financially if Isak moves to Liverpool. A substantial transfer fee would provide Newcastle with additional resources to strengthen their squad or balance their books, further solidifying their standing in the Premier League.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“That would ease any kind of concerns and give them huge room to maneuver in the market.”
— Ayo Akinwolere [15:49]
Ekatike represents a younger, less proven option compared to Isak. Ornstein discusses the potential risks and rewards of signing Ekatike, who has shown promise in the Bundesliga but lacks Premier League experience. The transfer would signify Liverpool's commitment to building for the future while addressing immediate squad needs.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“With Ekatike it's a bit more of a gamble because... he's a bit more of a project signing.”
— David Ornstein [20:30]
The discussion shifts to Luis Diaz, whose potential departure from Liverpool has been a hot topic. Ornstein outlines Liverpool's firm stance against selling Diaz unless a highly lucrative offer is presented. The conversation also touches on the emotional impact of Diaz's possible exit and its implications for Liverpool's attacking prowess.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“Liverpool have been very relaxed about it... they're not going to get bullied into any kind of deal that they're not completely happy with.”
— David Ornstein [28:21]
As the transfer window progresses, the episode underscores the uncertainty surrounding these high-profile moves. Hosts Ayo Akinwolere, David Ornstein, and James Pearce emphasize the need to watch developments closely, as the outcomes could significantly impact both Liverpool and Newcastle's futures.
Key Points:
Notable Quote:
“It's all hypothetical at the moment because so many of these situations are in flux.”
— Ayo Akinwolere [31:59]
Final Thoughts
This episode of The Athletic FC Podcast provides a thorough examination of the current transfer landscape involving Liverpool and Newcastle, highlighting key players like Alexander Isak, Ugo Ekatike, and Luis Diaz. Through insightful analysis and expert commentary, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the strategies, financial implications, and potential outcomes shaping the future of these clubs.
Listeners can stay updated by tuning into future episodes every Friday.