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- [00:00]
Paige Desorbo
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- [00:36]
Sponsor Announcer
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name. This episode of the Athletic FC is sponsored by boss, businesswear provider for the US Men's National Soccer Team. Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply worn, it's earned. Boss understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest. Constant refinement, precision in every stitch. And as the USMNT steps into the spotlight on home soil, BOSS is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forward with confidence, express their individuality, and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring from Boss performance and soccer fans, BOSS has you covered, too. Whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your hero's in Boss performance or show your pride from the stands in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors and badges, Own the moment with confidence. Discover the Boss Performance collection as worn by the US Men's National Soccer Team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own boss@boss.com or at your nearest Boss store,
- [02:28]
Henry Bushnell
the Athletic FC.
- [02:34]
Ian Irving
Hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ian Irving. So it was a good night for the hosts in the end as Canada thump Qatar and Mexico see off South Korea. Can the USA put themselves into the knockout rounds tonight? And with Liverpool and Spurs making their move in the market, we'll check in with David Ornstein right here in the studio as well. The Athletics, Jay Harris and Tim Spears.
- [02:57]
Tim Spears
We.
- [02:57]
Jay Harris
Okay, all good, thank you.
- [02:59]
Ian Irving
Looking fresh.
- [02:59]
Jay Harris
Thank you.
- [03:00]
Ian Irving
Yeah, another random shirt. I like it.
- [03:02]
Jay Harris
Not, not random. One of my favorite World cup Memories is 2010 when Ghana got Mojan. Yeah, yeah. When Ghana should have got to the semi finals. And ever since then I've had a little bit of a soft spot for them, so I thought I'd crack it out.
- [03:14]
Ian Irving
Yeah, absolutely. So to speak.
- [03:16]
Tim Spears
Tim, what about my shirt or. Well, I wore a Steve Ball shirt last time to kind of commemorate, you know, the last second tier player to play for England at the World Cup. But Adam didn't even notice, so I was like, well, what's the point?
- [03:27]
Ian Irving
Oh, okay.
- [03:28]
Tim Spears
Yeah.
- [03:28]
Ian Irving
Well, I like your shirt nonetheless.
- [03:30]
Tim Spears
Thanks very much.
- [03:30]
Ian Irving
We're going to check in in a moment on the USA and everything else that's going on later on. But day eight saw two wins for the host Mexico making the most of a goalkeeping error to beat South Korea, while in Vancouver, Canada cut loose. Here's the athletics Josh Cloak.
- [03:46]
Josh Cloak
This game wasn't just a novel. It was Homer's odyssey set on the shores of Falls Creek in Vancouver. 4, 6 goals from four different players. A hat trick from Jonathan David, A heartbreaking likely broken leg suffered by Ismael Kone after a brutal tackle from Qatar. And then post game, what we in Canada might call a donnybrook, A brawl at the hands of Jesse Marsh and Qatar manager Julian Lopategi. Not sure exactly what was said, but what was clear is that fiery Jesse Marsh, who usually has no problem mixing it up with anybody around him, kept his cool, kept his composure. And that's what should be remembered from today. The composure Canada kept and the unity they showed as a group to push forward. Truly after this win, a really special win that sent thousands and thousands of fans into the streets of Vancouver with newfound proud, pride in their national team. It's pride that for years was difficult to come by in Canada. But after this win, the goals, the unity, the tons and tons of special moments, these are the things that Canadians will remember forever. And these are the things that are going to make Canadians everywhere think this national team might be on the verge of something special.
- [05:07]
Ian Irving
Yeah. Lovely to hear from Josh getting a sense of how important this win is for Canada. Tim. I mean, he's referencing ancient Greece literature. We've got parties on the streets of Vancouver. It's, it's kicked off there now.
- [05:18]
Tim Spears
I mean it was extraordinary seeing it all unfold. I mean for them to have never won a World cup match after quite a few attempts to then win six nil, you know, it's kind of like when, when a team wins a title after sort of, you know, 20 years and they go and coast to it like Liverpool did. It was. But it was great. Obviously the injury sort of, you know, sullied the, the event a little bit in the second half, but mostly they could just enjoy it. There was sort of 3 nil up, coasting and it was how many goals they were going to score against nine men. So the atmosphere sounded great. It's just what they needed to sort of kick their tournament off properly. And they're pretty much through to the next round now and with the opportunity to stay at home as well. If they can, if they can draw against Switzerland in their last game, then they're going to stay in Vancouver for the last 32 and potentially for the last 16 as well. So it was just an almost perfect match for them. And you know, the signs had been there, I think in their, in their first match against Bosnia that they're a pretty decent team. You know, Jesse Marsh obviously been building towards this for two years. They're quite a close knit group. They've got a very defined style of play and Qatar were quite willing and submissive opponents, you would say. But yeah, it was just a fantastic day, fantastic atmosphere and yeah, their tournaments really kicked off now.
- [06:31]
Ian Irving
Yeah, I mean we have to talk about the injury to Ismael Kone because it was, it was an awful injury. You could see the impact that it had not only on his teammates but also on the opposition as well. It caused mass arguments between the teams too. It's a shame because aside from that, it was pretty much like Tim saying there, the perfect night.
- [06:51]
Jay Harris
I think in Canada's first game against Bosnia, Kone really stood out to me. There are probably times he's trying to do a little bit too much, but I think technically in the middle of the park, he stood out amongst all of his teammates as someone who's just securing the ball, trying to play some inventive passes and just trying to get things going. And Jesse Marsh after the injury came out and said there's no like for like replacement in Canada squad. So I think it's a real miss. But seeing that type of injury and, and seeing a player flourishing in the World cup and then having that dream sort of ripped away from them in such agonizing circumstances like who knows how long he's going to be out for now. But I think we can pretty confidently say he's not going to play again at this tournament. He had to go for surgery at the hospital is a real shame. And I do think we need to give credit to the Canadian players for the way that they did manage to sort of move on from that emotional blow and still manage to, to keep scoring. That nice moment at the end, where is it? Sadiba scores with the free kick and holds up Kone's shirt. So a tough moment for them but I think the way they responded was, was good.
- [07:54]
Tim Spears
Well, I think it was fueled by anger to be honest, because it was, it wasn't just a sort of a one off, you know, bad foul and broken leg and obviously horrific incident but there had been quite a few sort of meaty challenges from the guitar players and it had been sort of kicking off a little bit. It kicked off again at full time, big scuffle. It kicked off on, on the touchline and after they scored their fourth goal and you kind of think in Canada four nil up, co hosting a World cup, they're in dreamland. None of the players were smiling after the fourth goal. They were just, they were just furious with what happened to their teammate, you know and it was, it was. I genuinely felt sick in my stomach when, when the incident happened because you can just that instant reaction of like players like running away with their head in their hands.
- [08:34]
Ian Irving
Yeah, you can tell almost straight away, can't you?
- [08:37]
Tim Spears
Being packed, medical staff kind of flooding on and obviously the player looked absolutely distraught and devastated as did the guitar player who commit the foul and was sent off for. So yeah, it is a blow for the team. They haven't got much strength in depth Canada so it's going to be a problem for them going forward as well.
- [08:54]
Ian Irving
Yeah. If you want to know more about the injury, there is an article on the athletic by Charlie Davis, the ex USA forward who suffered a similar injury during his career. So it'll be interesting to get his take on it and the road back as well already for Kone. Aside from that, like we say, it was such a brilliant match for them and the first time a host nation player has scored a hat trick in a World cup since.
- [09:18]
Tim Spears
Not, not since, since
- [09:23]
Ian Irving
quite famous.
- [09:24]
Jay Harris
I'm trying to think where it wouldn't have been Qatar, it wouldn't have been Russia.
- [09:27]
Tim Spears
Keep going, keep going.
- [09:29]
Ian Irving
Like Maradona or Pele during the time of Pele.
- [09:31]
Jay Harris
But yeah, before Jeff Hurst or someone like that.
- [09:33]
Ian Irving
Jeff.
- [09:37]
Jay Harris
I didn't think it would be such a, a well known name. I thought it was going to be a real curveball.
- [09:42]
Ian Irving
Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's quite, I mean, it's quite a niche start, I suppose in some ways. Well, in every way, actually.
- [09:48]
Jay Harris
If I didn't get that right, I probably would have had to walk out the door maybe.
- [09:51]
Ian Irving
Yeah, I mean, you got there, Jay. It's good. But yeah, in terms of it being Jonathan David that did it, obviously Alphonso Davis was in the squad, but he's got fitness issues. He's one superstar, but for the other one to step up in this way is encouraging for them too.
- [10:06]
Jay Harris
So firstly, the fact that they didn't have to bring Alfonso Davies on is important. The fact that there was no dramatic situation where they're chasing a last minute winner and they, they need him to come on. The fact that that pressure's been removed for him is really important. And arguably they might not need him against Switzerland in the next game as well.
- [10:23]
Tim Spears
Well, it's an issue. One just to say quickly that they were talking on commentary. Should they bring up their 6 nil up? Let's bring him on for a few minutes. But, but because the challenges that were going in, they were like, no, this is terrible. Time to bring him on.
- [10:32]
Jay Harris
And then going back to Jonathan David, obviously, like some of the finishes, particularly the volley is exceptional, but I don't want to say he, he redeemed himself. But in the first game against Bosnia when it was nil, nil, he misses a really easy chance and he basically hits it from eight yards out straight at the goalkeeper. And that game could have been completely different if, if he'd scored, you can imagine how the Canadian fans would have reacted. And so I think he sort of needed to produce a performance like this just to sort of get the team going basically. And he really came up trumps with some really slick finishing.
- [11:02]
Ian Irving
Yeah, I mean, the thing about having a player like that in your squad when you're the host nation and you've got this whole atmosphere around it as well, there's a real power and energy to that that, you know, we'll talk about the impact that, that Mexico have had as well on this tournament. But it's good generally for these teams to be successful, at least in the group stages to Ensure that you have got this, this undertone, this energy to the whole competition, basically.
- [11:28]
Tim Spears
Yeah. And he'll be obviously the poster boy going forward for Canada now. And, you know, we know that Canada is not necessarily a huge sort of country, so to have, you know, this result and a kind of, you know, a face to put on it is, Is great. But they're, they're a bit of a cast of characters. You know, the right hand side in particular, Johnston and Buchanan, constant overloads down that right hand side. Qatar just didn't know how to deal with it and they've sort of got threats from all over the pitch really, if you let them play.
- [11:55]
Ian Irving
Obviously not just them in action last night, we also had five goals, a red card, all after the 74th minute in Switzerland's victory over Bosnia, there was a 10 draw between the Czech Republic and South Africa. Means that Mexico are now the first nation through to the knockout rounds. Officially, they are group winners as well because the tournament is decided the placings in the group stage by head to head record. So despite the fact that South Korea can match them for points in the remaining game, they can't obviously overturn a head to head record with them within winning that game last night. So again, you know, another positive story for the hosts, winning in a completely different way. But equally important, I just want to
- [12:35]
Jay Harris
quickly say that the only game I watched all the way through is Czech Republic, South Africa. It's one of the worst games of football I've ever seen. I don't know, I don't know if you two saw it, but basically South Africa dominated possession, took an insane amount of shots from long distance and played every single corner short. As one of the maddest tactical approaches I've. I've ever seen. And they're a little bit lucky to get away with it. But just on the Mets go South Korea game that also wasn't particularly entertaining. I think South Korea only had two shots or something like that, but one opportunity that they did have right at the end of the game. Full credit to the Mexican goalkeeper is how I'm gonna guess we should be pronouncing it. Who, who gets his sort of like his right leg, his right hand to this header from. I think it was Cho, and I think he ends up getting maybe kneed in the stomach or something in the process, but completely threw himself at this, at the shot and managed to save it. And what we should point out is that the Mexican fans were booing at half time. So if they'd conceded that late Equalizer.
- [13:34]
Ian Irving
They were booing.
- [13:35]
Jay Harris
They were booing at half time. Yeah. Just because it wasn't an entertaining performance. And there's that sense of, you know, expectations are high with this Mexican team. They've not got to the quarterfinal stage of the World cup in, you know, a long, long time. Everybody knows them as they get to the round of 16 and then that's it. And the fact that they're hosting, obviously the country want to see them, the fans want to see them go that next step. And if they're watching them sort of labor to a very uninspiring performance against South Korea, they're probably thinking, well, if we can't win this game, then we're never going to break our round of 16 cars. So yeah, they were booing at halftime and I was just saying, can you imagine what would have happened if they conceded that, that Lake equalizer. But in the end they managed to avoid it, go through as top. And I do think it is important when the host countries are winning. It just adds to the atmosphere of it.
- [14:24]
Ian Irving
What do you make of it? What impressed you?
- [14:27]
Tim Spears
Well, look, two wins, two clean sheets, you can't really argue with that. But yeah, I think there's also frustration from the Mexico fans as to kind of the style of football that they're watching. It's pretty risk free. You know, the XG combined for both teams at halftime was 0.23 combined. Yeah, it was a real tough watch. Probably the worst half I've seen so far.
- [14:46]
Ian Irving
So you may not have watched the worst game.
- [14:47]
Jay Harris
I may not have.
- [14:49]
Tim Spears
It was a shocker. You know, they up the tempo in the second half but it's a mistake that leads to the goal. Goalkeeper literally drops the ball.
- [14:55]
Jay Harris
Do you not feel a little bit like it? It is a mistake. But I also feel a bit bad for him because as he's trying to catch it over his teammate.
- [15:02]
Tim Spears
Yeah, there's lack of communication. I think it's, it's all too easy and yeah, but I guess the risk free element which we saw against South Africa as well, you know, against, against nine men, they were hardly pushing for more goals. And it's sort of highlighted by the fact that Gilberto Mora, we haven't seen him really, he didn't come off the bench last night. He came off the bench briefly against South Africa. But you know, he's the one that everyone's excited to see the kind of, you know, unleash Michael Owen type. Come on, let's get him on the pitch. But sort of ref to do that because it's quite sort of safety versus football. But two wins, two clean sheets, they're going to top the group. They're staying in Mexico City again for the last 32 and potentially for the last 16, potentially against England. So yeah, everything's going great.
- [15:39]
Jay Harris
It'll be be interesting to see if, when, if, when they go a goal down, how they react to that because at the moment, like you said, kept two clean sheets, they've not really had to come out and be more expansive. Do they have it within them if they're losing a game or chasing an equalizer or whatever to suddenly go all out and yeah, and there was a
- [15:59]
Tim Spears
real element here of the fact that both teams had won their first game and a point was absolutely fine for both of them. That's exactly how it was sort of playing out and I think we are going to see a bit of that in the second round of matches. Now
- [16:11]
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- [17:43]
Paige Desorbo
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- [18:21]
Ian Irving
It's time to get stuck in to some transfer chat because yesterday saw an explosion of movement really with Victor Munoz to Liverpool confirmed also potentially making a move for Yandy and Mande while spurs remain keen on Sandro Tonali. Lots of teams interested in him but of course no person better to keep across all of this and tell us the details that then the Athletics football correspondent David Ornstein. David, thank you for joining us. Let's get to Liverpool first, then a move for Spain's Victor Munoz. I mean how quick has this come about?
- [18:51]
David Ornstein
Yeah it was a bit out of the blue Ian wasn't seemed Newcastle had made the most headway on this situation and were closing in on the signing. Meanwhile there was interest from elsewhere. Real Madrid had the opportunity to bring him back from Osasuna. Barcelona, where I think he played in the youth system, had an element of interest too. But I think once Real Madrid chose not to activate the buyback and certainly I don't think they would have wanted him going to Barcelona. It seemed the Premier League was the direction of travel, but ultimately Liverpool have nipped in not for the first time over the last year or so. It seems to become a be becoming a recurring theme. The players that Newcastle are trying to sign, the likes of Ekitike Leoni end up going to Liverpool and of course there was the movement of Alexander Isap between the clubs as well. Liverpool say they've been working on this for some time, that they've been across it behind the scenes and that they were able to accelerate after Andoni Raiola was appointed as as head coach, a player that he said to really like and was very influential in in the process. So too obviously Richard Hughes as sporting director, Michael Edwards as CEO of football for Fenway Sports Group and It was a 40 million euros release clause and before we know it it was already being announced. So you know, a pretty impressive piece of recruitment it would appear because you know coming into the World cup when I was doing my research, I'm sure many others felt the same that Munoz was being Talked about and identified as one of the potential breakout stars of this competition. Liverpool's big focus for this transfer window is the attacking wide positions the wings. They've managed to get that with Munoz already. He can play on both sides bowler counts and I don't done there. So yeah Liverpool seem really pleased and judging by the comments of the player he's delighted too to get a club of that stature. I think of course Newcastle will be bruised by it and licking their wounds but they'll have more options as well.
- [20:53]
Ian Irving
Yeah, Newcastle bruised Tim is how David's just sort of framed it there for us. It's not the first time either because there was all the Hugo Ekitike stuff last summer where it looked like Newcastle had got that done only for Liverpool to nip in. They'll be sick of them, won't they?
- [21:07]
Tim Spears
Yeah there must be. I imagine there'll be real frustration at Newcastle and the fan base will be kind of thinking you know not again. Yeah but not just now like for the. For the summer. You know you want them after an early sale to be really getting their. Their business done early. But they've had recruitment issues for. For some time now. There's a frustration every summer in that place. Whether it's not buying anyone or even when they go and spend. What was it 200 million last summer. And like almost everyone ended up being a dude. You know real. A real bad summer of recruitment as it turned out. It was only Malik Chaw who's like a success but the other four they brought in, Alanga Ramsey, Whisser and Walter Marder. I mean they're all on. They ended up on the bench at the end of the season. Like that's how. That's how bad their sort of recruitment had been. I do think they have issues with location. That's sort of a long standing issue there. That's obviously you know not going to change.
- [21:54]
Ian Irving
But he got against the Northeast.
- [21:56]
Tim Spears
But it must be a huge frustration for the fans because obviously Saudi owners in terms they got. In theory they got limitless money. But they just keep having problems with recruitment every single year.
- [22:04]
Ian Irving
Yeah we'll see how that one plays out in terms of Newcastle suburb. Let's stay with Liverpool David then. The name on everyone's lips it seems so far during this World cup has been Jan Diamandi. So where do we stand exactly on this one?
- [22:16]
David Ornstein
Yeah, this really could be one of the big deals of the summer. Not guaranteed because it's important to say RB Leipzig want to keep Diamonde. They would like to renew his contract. However, that's not going to stop the vultures circling and Liverpool are at the forefront of that. We've talked there with Munoz about how Liverpool want to strengthen in the wide attacking areas, the wings, and it's clear that Diamonde has been their top target for some time. We revealed on the Athletic that they had made contact initially with RB Leipzig and that they were in a really strong position in terms of the player side of things. And we revealed exclusively that they in their approach to RB Leipzig had expressed a willingness. It's essentially an offer to pay a package worth approaching 100 million euros, which I don't think is their first proposal either. I think they were lower and they've improved it. So this is getting quite serious now. They've done a lot of work on the player side. That puts them firmly in the driving seat if he is going to leave RB Leipzig. They're tough negotiators led by Oliver Mintzlaff, so we can't say anything for certain just yet. And we've seen in the past that it's like pulling teeth when you're trying to get a player from them. But eventually if you hit the right price, they tend to sell. There is strong competition from Paris Saint Germain. They do want Jan Diamande and normally when they want a player, they tend to get them. And they're becoming an increasingly attractive proposition as the back to back European champions and of course champions of France as well. But at this moment in time, as I understand it, unless they get an indication from the player that PSG is his choice, they're not going to approach RB Leipzig. If they do get that indication, then of course they'll try and structure a deal. And it's worth pointing out that the bosses at both clubs, Minslaff and Nasser Al Khalifi at PSG have a very strong relationship and relationships do count for a lot in this industry. They may be behind right now, but let's see how it evolves. And, and that's why Liverpool have other options as well. There's a number of players they're looking at. You'll have seen the names floating around, including Yancouba Minte of Brighton, a couple of others too. But it's very evident where their focus is and I don't expect RB Leipzig to accept a deal at this value. But if Liverpool keep going up, then clearly it's going to get extremely interesting.
- [24:58]
Ian Irving
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's a bit of a tug of war this day emerging between Liverpool and psg. For Diamande, you obviously have been across a lot of African football in the last few years. Are you surprised at how much interest and excitement there is around this player?
- [25:12]
Jay Harris
I think what surprises me is just the way his career has just exploded over the last 12, 18 months. You know, when he was with Lahanas in Spain in La liga in the 24:25 season, he barely played 500 minutes, only got a handful of appearances. Then all of a sudden he goes to RB Leipzig in the Bundesliga and is a phenomenal talent, scores 12 goals in 33 games. But I've watched Ivory Kosovichi over Ecuador and, and it was just remarkable how. And obviously there's going to be comparisons with Doku in the way that they just seem to be so effortless in manipulating the ball with their feet and sort of jinking and dribbling past people with with absolute ease. It's a little bit scary that he can do it off both wings as well. And he did it to Piero Hincapie in the first half and then switched to the other wing and tormented Ecuador's other fullback. It's, it's remarkable. We should also point out that Diamandez, he's actually put an article out on the Players Tribune and it's quite an emotional letter, something he's revealed, which I don't think was in the public eye, that his 15 year old sister died a couple of years ago. And it's basically him saying, everything I do now is in honor of her memory. She was the one who really supported me through my, my trials and tribulations. And he mentions in it that firstly he was really homesick when he went to the US when he was 15 years old and he was constantly in contact with his younger sister to sort of help him get through it. You know, he, he couldn't speak any English. He sat there, all he understands is French and there's a lot going on and she was someone who, who supported him. And then he said that he went on trial with Chelsea, Rangers, Bournemouth, Olympiacos, Crystal palace, and that Elise and Eze went up to him afterwards and said, you're an incredible player. But he still didn't get signed and the one person who was sort of supporting him throughout it is no longer here. So I'd recommend to anybody go and read it because already he was such an exciting talent and you, you learn and understand more of his journey and you just think, I truly, truly hope that you have all the successes in life that you personally come to the Premier League. So I get to watch your match a day every week and in the stadium. But best of luck to him and I hope Ivory coast go far in this tournament so we could see him as much as we can.
- [27:15]
Ian Irving
Yeah, okay. I mean, let's stay with you Jay, because it's not just Liverpool making moves. Like we said before, spurs have also been busy. Yampo Van Hecker confirmed yesterday. Obviously that adds to Senesi as well to sort of boost the center back options for, for the team. I mean, why is it the defensive department that is a priority? Because the obvious thing is what's going to happen with Christian Romero and Micky Van De ven with these two new arrivals.
- [27:38]
Jay Harris
the end of the day, spurs have finished 17th two seasons in a row and there are different reasons for that. Injuries, you know, just changing head coaches seemingly every four or five months. But there have been question marks over the defence for a long time and I think they need more, more depth there. Who knows what's going to happen with Christian Romero this summer? We've reported that there's a strong chance he's going to leave and I think part of what spurs have done is they're anticipating Romero leaving and they're just trying to get that all sorted. So Van Hecke is very clearly probably going to be the first choice right sided center back on the De Zerbi next season and that basically means that Romero can go. They've signed Robertson and Doggies had a lot of injuries at left back so that just covers them on that side then. I think Senesi is a very clever market opportunity. They know that Van De Ven is a, when he's fully focused, he is a fantastic footballer with a really high potential. But he's had his difficulties over the last year. Maybe in the future he'll leave. So sort of getting Senesci in means that there's competition for Van De Ven, but it also means a potential long term repl and then with all the other midfielders that they're looking at forwards, they're looking at Savinho Tonali, Matthias Fernandez. Be very interesting to see what they get over the line. Fair play for spurs for reacting to what happened last season and going we need to be ambitious in this transfer market. Can you pull off these deals? That's another issue entirely. So I'm very intrigued to see if they can pull off some of these moves.
- [29:03]
Ian Irving
Okay, well let's ask David about another one of those then. Jay mentioned him there. Sandro Tonali, what's going on with Spurs's Pursuit of him.
- [29:11]
David Ornstein
Ah, another that really could dominate in the days and weeks ahead because I think there is an acceptance at St. James's park that Tonali could exit this summer. But the money has to be right and we think that's around £100 million. Who have a very significant salary demand as well. But Tottenham are in for him. What I see happening here is Tottenham trying to get in a place where they know they can do a deal with the player on salary and I'm hearing that they are offering him really big money to join them and then they'll go to Newcastle. If that part is okay, they will open talks and try and negotiate a fee. It really would be quite something, wouldn't it, if they get a player of Tonali's stature for around £100 million, a level they've never been to in terms of transfer fee. And also the salary numbers I'm hearing would take Tottenham to an area that you didn't used to see them go before. But at the time of recording this I'm not aware of club to club talks. It's just between Tottenham and the representatives of Tonali at the moment. There's also interest from Manchester City and that's concrete revealed by Daniel Taylor, my colleague on the Athletic, that City are not only interested in Elliot Anderson from Nottingham Forest, but also in Tonali from Newcastle. Not one or the other that they would be prepared to go for both of them. However, clearly it will take some departures. Obviously Bernardo Silva's departed already. But what's going to happen with Rodri? Only a year to go on his contract and some uncertainty there. What's going to happen with Reinders, with Nico Gonzalez and if one or two depart, there's then space to bring in one or two. I mean the finance would be massive and they've not got either of them yet because the conversations with Nottingham Forest are ongoing around Elliot Anderson. But Tenali is certainly one who is subject to huge interest and it's a really captivating story within the market right now.
- [31:10]
Ian Irving
Yeah, there's a few captivating stories to be fair. David, thank you very much for joining us and getting us up to date on all of that. Tim. I mean, you feel a bit sorry for Newcastle, don't you? Like we were talking about before. And George Culkin has written a column on the Athletic which if I read the title out, gives you an impression straight away of how this is going to go. Newcastle losing Sandro Tonali to Man City makes sense, but Tottenham? Surely not. Can you help George figure that out at all. I mean Newcastle didn't have a brilliant season but they were still a little bit ahead of spurs, weren't they?
- [31:43]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I know what George means in terms of like the optics of selling, you know one of your best players to spurs doesn't look great. But if I'm the player and I'm looking at Newcastle and Spurs right now, you know the most exciting project potentially is definitely Spurs. Newcastle a bit stuck. Eddie Howes staying. We don't know how many signings are going to bring in this summer. What are their ambitions now? Whereas spurs are obviously aiming high with an exciting new manager already making moves in the transfer market. But as David said, the key words really big offer of money and obviously money talks if they're going to offer him a huge wage. What is he, 26 now Tonali then Yeah, De Zerbi has obviously gone there for an exciting project but let's not kid ourselves. He's been incredibly well paid as well. So money talks at the end of the day. And I would say though I think Tonali, they obviously made one big sale this summer. It remains to be seen how many big sales Newcastle need to make to then make moves in the transfer market.
- [32:42]
Ian Irving
What do you make of the wages? Because that's the one thing that stood out to me from David's reporting there that this is an offer that he didn't see spurs coming up with previously.
- [32:54]
Jay Harris
So this all comes back to Daniel Levy leaving in September and since then chief executive officer Vinay Venkatesham, sporting director Johan Langer, the Lewis family, non executive chairman Peter Charrington have all basically come out and said we have not been paying players well enough and that's a big reason why we've missed out on talent. So the one example we can give you from last summer is spurs were definitely in for Antoine Semenya, then couldn't sort of agree a fee with Bournemouth who couldn't agree personal terms with Semeno. Then by the time they're back in for him in January who was he going to pick? Spurs who were in free fall under Thomas Franco. Man City Pep Guardiola going for a title was a easy decision and so I think spurs have recognized they need to start paying players in line with their their rivals. Historically they've always had one of the lowest wage to revenue ratios in the Premier League, one of the lowest wage bills in the Premier League. And that needs to change. They need to be competitive, they need to be ambitious. It's not just about what they'd be prepared to offer Tonali. It's the fact they've resigned Poro, they resigned Rodrigo Benson, Cool Romero, Jed Spence over the last 12 months.
- [33:57]
Ian Irving
And are these all reflective of this attitude that they believe that the players should be paid more?
- [34:02]
Jay Harris
And I'm pretty certain that David reported when Conor Gallagher joined Spurs in January that he was going to become one of their highest earners. They're definitely prepared to shell out on wages in a way that hasn't been done before, but I also think they had to. Like I said, they finished 17th two seasons in a row. They have to go to Van Hecker Tonali and give them 250,000 reasons a week to join spurs because otherwise you'd look at that and think, well no, I'm not convinced, so let's see if it works. Because as David said, it's one thing agreeing personal terms, but Tottenham's current club record signings Dominic Solanke £65m so if Newcastle are expecting £100m from Tonali, then that's going to be some significant barrier to break and that will really tell us that spurs mean business.
- [34:46]
Ian Irving
Yeah, that's a big jump. It certainly is. Like David said, a lot of compelling telling stories in this transfer market Already he's also been reporting that spurs are after West Ham's Matthias Fernandes as well. Again, a few clubs interested in him, so keep your eyes on the Athletic for that
- [35:05]
Sponsor Announcer
this episode of the Athletic FC podcast is brought to you by Framer. If your team wants a website that looks and feels handcrafted but is still fast to ship, Framer is built. For that. You design design on a visual canvas with responsive layouts, hosting and a CMS built in so the work is production ready. From day one, agents work alongside you to draft pages and polish sections. Then you review and publish what goes live. Framer is the pro site builder for creators, teams and businesses that want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. With Framer, agents and humans work in tandem. Agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment and and control. The agent works in the same place where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed and published. It lands on the canvas, stays editable and can be published when the team is ready. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com athleticfc for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's Framer F R-A-R.com athleticfc for 30% OFF framer.com athleticfc rules and restrictions may apply. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by the FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's you can get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. These cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Ronaldinho and Taylor, Thierry Henry and current stars from the three hosts Christian Pulisic, Santiago Jimenez and Alphonso Davis, as well as everyone's favourite purple player, Grimace and I don't know about you, but I'm hyped to get Lamina mar with my 10 McNuggets. The FIFA World cup meal is available all tournament long, so see if you can collect all nine of the cups. That's the FIFA World cup meal only at McDonald's, our participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 202026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026 is a copyright and a trademark. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Example hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [38:00]
Ian Irving
Time now for our quiz and it's been brilliant to see so many of you getting involved in this, so feel free to have your say and answer. Today's question. It's the do you know Daily trivia from the World Cup. You'll be pleased to know that there are multiple choices for this from the outset. Okay, I know there's been a bit of controversy about that with some of the other hosts during the tournament, so I thought I'd make it nice and simple for you both. So the question is, do you know which of these nations have qualified for the fewest World Cups? And the total is nine. The choices are usa, Portugal or Switzerland.
- [38:38]
Jay Harris
I'M gonna say, I'm gonna try and do this in a clever way and say Switzerland.
- [38:44]
Ian Irving
Okay. That's not right.
- [38:46]
Tim Spears
I was trying to count how many years Portugal are qualified in a row, because I think since Ronaldo came in, they qualified for every tournament, but before then, it was only two.
- [38:53]
Ian Irving
Okay.
- [38:54]
Tim Spears
So I think maybe Portugal.
- [38:55]
Ian Irving
And you're correct.
- [38:56]
Jay Harris
Smooth.
- [38:57]
Ian Irving
And you even showed your workings out as well. I feel like I should give you extra credit for.
- [39:00]
Jay Harris
Obviously, there's a temptation with that question to say usa, because historically, they've not been very good. But then common ball is not very competitive. It's always sort of the US And Mexico at the top.
- [39:09]
Ian Irving
Yeah.
- [39:10]
Jay Harris
So I thought actually they'd probably qualify quite a lot. It's just they don't do very well historically at a World Cup. Well.
- [39:15]
Ian Irving
And they've been involved for a long time, which actually, when you look at Portugal just nine times, debut in 1966, Switzerland, 13 tournaments, USA 12. So it's not even that close, actually.
- [39:28]
Tim Spears
That is surprising re Switzerland. I could barely tell you a single match that Switzerland played the World cup that I can remember. And thinking, wow, that was great.
- [39:37]
Ian Irving
Okay, let's go back to the World cup then. Properly. It's day nine, and with it comes USA's second group game. They'll be taking on Australia in Seattle this time around, and Henry Bushnell is part of our team covering the U.S. men's National Team is with us now. So, firstly, Henry, how's the feeling being in the US Camp since that brilliant win over Paraguay? We saw how excited you were after it. Is everyone else feeling the same?
- [40:03]
Henry Bushnell
Yeah. As you'd expect, the vibes are great, but I would say I would make two key points. The vibes were good pre tournament as well. If you spoke to people around the team, if you spent some time in the camp, you could get a sense that this group was in a good place. The chemistry was good. They were confident. So this isn't just an overreaction to one game. Which kind of brings me to my second point in that even in the hours after the game against Paraguay and throughout the week, nearly every player has said, we know it's just one game. We're confident, but we're not getting overconfident. And I think that's a really great place to be after one match at a World Cup.
- [40:43]
Jay Harris
Hey, Henry, it's Jay here. Has the quality of that victory changed expectations at the tournament?
- [40:48]
Henry Bushnell
I think it has. Rightly or wrongly, I think it has, because I think the baseline expectation now for The US is that they should win group D. And if you win Group D, you get a third place team in the round of 32. You probably get the winner of Belgium's group, which could be anybody at this point in the round of 16. So I think at this point, like if you don't get to a quarterfinal, it will feel like a letdown. It won't necessarily be a failure. I think that would be unfair. But I think the American public is now dreaming much bigger than they were a week ago.
- [41:22]
Tim Spears
Henry, hey, it's Tim. I saw Pochettino say this week that the team should be dreaming without limits. I think it's an interview with the Athletic. Obviously a year ago there was sort of really big question marks over his impact after a really sort of mixed start. Is there a sense now that his methods are really finally starting to pay off?
- [41:39]
Henry Bushnell
Yeah, it's always tough to tell on this. It's easy to say yes after a result like Friday and a performance like the one against Paraguay. But look, Pochettino has been sending the same message in March and you know, previously and in March when he was talking about, you know, why not us? Why can't we win the World cup, the players bought into that and then they also went out and got spanked by Belgium and Portugal. And this group of players still has not beaten a top, top team. So I actually, I think Friday's game against Paraguay did more for belief that any of Pochettino's words or methods could have. What I will say though is I think players have definitely bought into his system on the field. And the fact that the midfield looks so balanced and fluid and frankly dominant against Paraguay, I think that is a really, really good sign.
- [42:30]
Ian Irving
Yeah, there's a lot of good signs when it comes to the USA at the moment and even in your enthusiasm for it all, Henry. So thank you so much for being with us. Christian Pulisic, we should say, is in an injury doubt for the match later on. You can keep across all the team news on the Athletic app on the World Cup Today blog. And a reminder as well, all our World cup coverage is free to read on the app right throughout the tournament. So go and have a look at that. Okay. Aside from the usa, then we can't forget Scotland obviously too. They're in action later on this evening and key to their chances. We'll be finding a way past today's start of soccer. Who is Yassin Benu J? Tell us about him.
- [43:06]
Jay Harris
There's so much focus on Morocco's attacking talent. Saibari as Alzouleh, even though he's not here. Brahim Diaz. But Bono.
- [43:14]
Ian Irving
Go on, be careful.
- [43:16]
Jay Harris
Sort of holds it all together. 35 years old, so he's been around for a long time now, but he's a really solid shot stopper. And I think one of his specialties is penalties. So I was there at the AFCON semi final earlier this year, and he saves two penalties in the shootout. I think it was from Bruno Onyemachi and Samuel Chigwasi. And I think in knockout tournaments, knowing that you have a goalkeeper of that stature who, if it comes down to it, will bail you out in. In shootouts is. Is massive. But when I was in Morocco for afcon, his face was absolutely everywhere. So even though we may not be aware of him as much, especially because he. He left Sevilla a couple of years ago, where he won a couple of Europa Leagues, and now he plays in Saudi, in Morocco, and in African football, he's considered one of the. The best goalkeepers going. So he. He will be crucial to their chances of going far in the competition.
- [44:06]
Ian Irving
Yeah, because he has made Ballon d' or list in the past, he's been part of the conversation for the. The FIFA Goalkeeper of the Year over that that particular honor is termed. So, yeah, he's not got as much of a profile in the uk, unquestionably, but you can see his importance to this team when you watch them, and the influence, like you say, that he's got on his teammates.
- [44:25]
Jay Harris
Yeah, he's definitely. This Morocco team, as we all saw on when they played against Brazil, is very young or has definitely got younger in the last few years, and that's partially because the new head coach, Mohamed Hawabi, he was the under 20 head coach, so he's brought in some of those players and promoted them. Whereas Bonner is probably one of those older figures who's still very crucial in terms of leadership and experience. Like Roman Syce, retired from international duty earlier this year, a man Tim knows very well from his days with Wolves. But Seiss was basically injured all the time for the last couple of years. So I think losing his experience in addressing him on the pitch has hurt Morocco. But actually when he got Bono knocking about, that sort of fills that void slightly.
- [45:03]
Ian Irving
Yeah. Okay. I mean, not just him in the news either. You've been writing about Hakimi, the captain. What's the story with this?
- [45:10]
Jay Harris
Yeah, so this is quite a huge developing story, and Hakeemi's come out and released a statement on X today to basically confirm that he's going to face trial for alleged rape. So I'll, I'll quickly read out what he said and he basically says, I've chosen to remain silent.
- [45:26]
Henry Bushnell
For years.
- [45:27]
Jay Harris
I thought that staying dignified, being patient and trusting the justice system would allow the right decisions to be made. And he sort of ends this statement by saying, I've been waiting for this trial since day one. Now I'm looking forward to it. Now this relates to an alleged incident which happened in February 2023, when a 24 year old woman claimed that Hakimi had raped her. Hakimi was charged in March 2023. So this case has been going on for a really long time. Now. Earlier this year, in February, we reported that and Hakimi announced it himself on social media that he was going to face trial, but his legal team were appealing that decision. Now that appeal's basically been rejected on Friday morning. So he will face trial at some point, although I don't believe a trial date has been set. It's a huge story. I think sometimes it's important to remember that Hakeem has won back to back champions leagues with PSG. He was in the top 10 of the Ballon d' or last year. Depending on who you speak to. He's an AFCON champion. He's the reigning African Footballer of the year. For him to face trial over such serious allegations is, is huge. So we await to see what happens. But I'm very intrigued because it's been going on for a long time and I think clarity is needed for everybody.
- [46:35]
Ian Irving
Yeah, absolutely. We should say that Hakimi has denied any wrongdoing. So we'll see exactly what happens with that in terms of the football. Tim, if we can just to finish, to preview the game between Morocco and, and Scotland, I mean, I should say Group C leaders, Scotland, no less after their victory against Haiti and obviously the draw between Brazil and Morocco. I mean, it's a tough group, undoubtedly and a result for Scotland probably season through later, potentially.
- [47:01]
Tim Spears
Yeah, it just shows you the value of, of that, that awkward win over Haiti. You know, they weren't at the best.
- [47:06]
Ian Irving
Good way to describe it.
- [47:07]
Tim Spears
You know, it's like. But if, imagine if they hadn't won that game and now they've got to take on Morocco and have it having to win, you know, realistically. Whereas now, you know, you can see a situation where, here, where Scotland changed to five at the back and just try and grind out a draw which sees them through, you know, because that's, that's, that's why they're here, is just to get through, you know, so at a point, probably suits both sides, to be honest. So I'd be a bit concerned about the entertainment factor because Morocco will go into it thinking, look a point, and then beat Haiti to go through in the last match. I think it's one where we want to see Scott McTominay sort of step up a bit. Didn't have a great game against Haiti, obviously went into it with sickness issues. But, yeah, Gannon Doak against Mazraui is probably the. The sort of key individual contest that I'm really looking forward to watching, because Ganondoak, surprisingly, because he had a terrible season with injuries, he was absolutely. He was the best player, I thought, against Hait. So, yeah, he was forward seeing them again.
- [48:04]
Ian Irving
I'm interested to see what the level is of these teams in this group as well, because you obviously had Scotland toiling a little bit, but getting over the line in that Haiti win and then Morocco and Brazil. Morocco started fantastically. Brazil came back into it. But was it because Brazil weren't quite as good? Is it because Morocco, you know, Very good. It'd be good to get a gauge on exactly the level of these teams
- [48:26]
Tim Spears
to see what level Morocco are at. You know, are they genuine sort of contenders for this tournament? They obviously had a great few years doing top 10 in the FIFA rankings, expectations on them in this tournament. Sort of rarely for an African nation to have such sort of high expectations, you know, expecting what, quarterfinals and beyond, really. So, yeah, we get to sort of really see what they're made of. I think in this.
- [48:46]
Jay Harris
I think from Morocco's perspective, you can't produce a performance like that against Brazil and then not come out and win your next game against Scotland. Like, the entire world was talking about Bodhi, like Sabari, an incredible finish, and now he's off to Bayern Munich. I think they expectations have gone through the roof in Morocco ever since they got to the semis of the last World Cup. They thought they should have won afcon. Maybe they did. But throughout that tournament, there was this arrogance and a little bit of a swagger about them, that we are an incredibly good footballing nation. And just because they're out of the World Cup, I don't think that mentality's changed. They've got some of the best players in the world in their team, including Brahim Diaz. I think they'll be thinking we should. We have an opportunity now to win this group, so we should be looking to. To beat Scotland, beat Haiti go through as group winners and secure a slightly easier path into the latter stages of the competition, but I think they'll come up firing.
- [49:40]
Ian Irving
Yeah, it would be interesting to see what goes on later on, but that's it for the Athletic FC podcast for today. Tim Jay, thank you so much for your company. Thank you as well to Josh, David and Henry for joining us. A reminder that all the athletics coverage of the World cup is free for you all to read throughout the tournament on the Athletic app. Don't miss out on that. You can watch or listen to us wherever you get your podcasts, as well as YouTube of course. And you can subscribe to the YouTube channel to try and get us over the line and stop us all reading out every single day that we're nearly at 300,000 followers. It'd be great to do that and hit that subscriber mark during this tournament. Certainly. I'll be back with you tomorrow. Thanks again for your company and we'll catch you soon. Bye bye.
- [50:34]
Sponsor Announcer
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
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David Ornstein
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Josh Cloak
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Jay Harris
Seriously, all of it.
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And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show.
- [51:46]
Henry Bushnell
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