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- [00:01]
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- [01:14]
Carl Anker
Par Le tu francais, hablas espanol par le Italiano.
- [01:19]
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- [01:53]
I can't believe they're having a gender reveal for their dog.
- [01:56]
David Ornstein
No, no, no, no.
- [01:57]
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This is a breed reveal.
- [01:58]
David Ornstein
Oh, so yeah, they're finding out the.
- [02:01]
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- [02:12]
David Ornstein
Oh, here we go. What do you think beige confetti means?
- [02:18]
Ayo Akimolere
I don't know.
- [02:19]
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- [02:28]
David Ornstein
The Athletic FC.
- [02:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Just about five days left of the transfer window and it doesn't look like slowing down. So who wants in and who's wanted out? Well, we've got David Ornstein. Let's talk transfers. Okay, so with us today we have the Athletics, David Ornstein. We've also got Karl Anker as well. David, There have been some massive signings, some big storylines so far in the transfer window. Now, you've been doing this for a while. Talk to me about this window in particular. How does it compare in terms of heat to other windows you've worked on?
- [03:06]
David Ornstein
Boiling. It's one of the hottest for sure. It's been a roller coaster and, and there was IO There were stories that have happened and transfers that have materialized or not that feel like they were a different year, a different summer, a different market altogether. When we think back to the. The Arsenal situation with Sesko and Jochares, there was one I was reminding myself of earlier. I think Newcastle, Liverpool battling over Ekatike, Man United coming in, Man United and Newcastle battling over Sesko. I mean, it feels like we've entered a different chapter in the book, but yeah, it's been wild. The. The level of expenditure, the amount of conversations and situations that have been explored, the stuff that remains to be resolved is probably more fascinating than ever before in terms of unanswered questions going into the final days. Thank Goodness is a 7pm cutoff on Monday. So we're not like burning the midnight oil and waiting for deal sheets at 1 or 2 in the morning. Having been working since 1 or 2 in the morning. It's been long, it's been draining, it's been political. There have been a lot of agendas. Egos.
- [04:27]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah.
- [04:28]
David Ornstein
Misinformation, different versions of events, players going on strike, conspiracy theories have gone out of control. This summer stay. Effects when it. Yeah, when that. When the. When the door slams shut, we will. We will be able to relax somewhat and return to something resembling normality. While you guys crack on, I'm going to take a quick call.
- [04:52]
Ayo Akimolere
Brilliant. Well, I'm hoping this podcast isn't too arduous. Take your call. Because we're focusing on Bond squads today. The players that teams want to shift so they can balance the books. Let's have a start with Manchester United. Let's talk about their bomb squad. Garnacho, Sancho, Anthony, Malacia. And there's also another two I want to talk about as well. Hojlund Mainoo. Carl, let's start with Mainoo first. A piece has dropped on the Athletic today. Critchley and Laurie Whitwell have talked about his future at Manchester United. Does it surprise you that are here with Mainoo because he hasn't played much at all?
- [05:26]
Carl Anker
He's not featured in the first two games of Manchester United and it was discussed after the defeat to Arsenal on talk of the Devils as to whether or not Manu should have come on as a substitute instead of Manuel Gate, the comment section is going, calm down everyone. It's just been one game. Manu feature plenty. You didn't feature at all against Fulham. Which then provoked questions both before the game. Reuben A was asked about Mainoo and what he thought of him and he said, you know, he's a young player, he's still to develop and there's going to be multiple phases in the season and there'll be certain fixes in which you'll feature. So the official expectation was mayoo get his time. We're talking right now ahead of a League cup game against Grimsby Town and that feels like a game where Mainoo will probably start along with Manuel Gate. Whether or not he's going to play consistent minutes and I'm talking upwards of 1500 minutes in this Premier League season, maybe probably not. Which if you are Mainoo and you were in the starting lineup for England in the Euros final and you are wanting to be the person who plays next to Declan Rice for England at the World cup on the Thomas Tuchel, that might be concerning. And that's created this situation, as reported by Laurie Whitwell and Mark Critchley and with input from Adam Crafton and David Ornstein, that Mainoo is open to a move. And I think it's really important to to look at this. He is open to a move. Manchester United are perhaps open to bids. So this is not necessarily a player agitating to to leave through the front door, even the back door. But this is a case of the door isn't quite as locked as you'd imagine for a academy graduate of his talent. I'm a big Mainoo fan. I think quite a few Manchester United fans are as well. And the idea that Mainoo might be sold for a fee anywhere between 45 million and 70 million, probably irks a little bit considering United. It's not necessarily a case of United needing to sell their midfield players, but actually they probably need to get a midfield player who can get the best out of Main rather than sell main. So very, very difficult situation. I know you just said stay off X. I think that's good advice. We call them E Reds. So the online Manchester United fans are being very voicerous. Some are saying nothing's happening. Some are saying, if Mainoo leaves, I'm leaving Manchester United. So, as David Ornstein always likes to tell me, let's not do anything until the transfer window is closed before we do our assessment. And as David Ornstein very often likes to tell me, when the transfer window closes, he's often like tapped me on the shoulder going, it's still open in Turkey.
- [08:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Another player I want to talk about, and maybe, David, I'll come to you on this one first is Rasmus Hojlund was written in the deal sheet that there was obviously interest from Napoli. How likely is a player like that to go from Manchester United United this summer?
- [08:20]
David Ornstein
I think it's unclear. Rasmus Hojlund did not intend to leave this summer, even after Benjamin Sesko was signed. He saw it as a challenge and something he wanted to emerge triumphant on. And so that presents a very difficult situation for Manchester United. I think Sesko would have come in expecting to have that role as his. So with nothing personal against Hjlund, it's obviously not ideal for him that there's that competition in the same sort of profile and age bracket and Man United probably can't or don't want to carry them both. And that's why options are being explored in terms of loan, maybe permanent. I don't know. It does seem to be that it's more loans with options, obligations, lots of interest from lots of clubs in the uk but also overseas. And we don't know of anything being close right now. You may have seen some reports suggesting that it is. That's not our information, but it doesn't mean to say that that won't come about in the next days, heading towards the deadline. So do I see a move materializing for Rasmus Hojlund? Yeah, I probably do. You know, he wasn't involved in the Arsenal fixture. I remember seeing him arrive at the ground separate to the rest of the squad. Not nice situation for him to be in. Clearly it's a. It's a bit of a shock for him. Yeah, it's not been an ideal couple of seasons, but he's a young player who does have, we think, high potential and, and qualities. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much interest in him. But off the back of those campaigns, Man United clearly feel he's. He's not the one for them. That's why they've bought in Sesco. That's why they're open to his departure and, and it could bring in significant funds. I can't say with certainty that it will happen, but I think a solution is more likely to be found than not. And I don't envisage Hojlund being sat at Man United until January. It doesn't feel like he's one of those bomb squad type players at other clubs who are going to be in that position. He's got so much to offer and that makes me think it will in a position that clubs need. We talk so often about how the supply of number nines is far inferior to the demand and he's one who is available. I guess it rests on him. Now, are you ready to go? Do you want to go? Where do you want to go? These are your options. Can we do something before the deadline? Probably yes, but not for certain.
- [10:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay. I mean, it's such a tough one, isn't it, in football, Carl? You've got someone who's been brought in and you know, seeing the unveiling, the social media clips. Oh yeah, he's our guy. Finally got him from Atalanta. We saw all the clips on. On YouTub. 70 odd million spent on him. Season or so down the line, you're surplus to requirements. I mean, is there an argument that yet again, a bit like Mainoo, the system doesn't work for a player of this ability.
- [11:18]
Carl Anker
I think Ornstein's really hit the nail on the head about the striker's supply and demand. I often go back to an old quote from Arsene Wenger when he was the Arsenal manager and Arsenal were linked to Gonzalo Higuain. I can't remember which time because Arsenal were linked to him multiple times. But Wenger made a point about how he believed we were seeing a dearth in strikers because of the way European coaching, sort of European coaching at the time, I want to say this is 2010s were coaching what was referred to as universality. So the idea that you'd have multifaceted players who could do loads of roles across the front three. And Wenger's ideal, his warning was that we were coaching the number 9 Ness or the strikerness out of players. And I believe the final quote was we might have to start shopping More in South America to get strikers. What's happened since then is, well, you know, Germany win a World cup with Mario Gotze scoring the winning goal. Spain win the Euros playing a false nine. But also now you've got. You sort of come out the other end where loads of teams are going, oh, God, we actually need a big man. And you're seeing Erling Haaland, you're seeing Alexander Isaac. But these big men aren't playing like traditional big men. They're playing. I mean, they're dribbling like they're five foot eight. Isaac in particular, Haaland's ability to do a couple of school moves, very, very remarkable. One on talks when you look at Sesko is, oh, wow. He's. He's 6 foot 5, but he's. He's moving in a certain way. So this sort of. There was a dearth in strikers and now everyone wants a big striker, but a big striker who can dribble. Put Rasmus in a. In a very awkward position. And you can look at quotes from Gasparini. When Hojlan leaves Atalanta, where Gasparini said, I would have liked to keep. Keep him one more season, he. There's still parts of his game he still needs to work on. And I think that striker shortage or the need for strikers in top European clubs meant Hojlund had to move probably a bit early. And as many United fan will now be able to tell you, if you are a football player and you're a little bit raw, Manchester United might not be the best place for you to cook or get cooked, or you end up getting cooked because you're a little bit raw. I need to work on the second draft for this analogy. And I think Hojlund has been unfortunately the victim of working in a football club that has been ruled by dysfunction for the last five, 10 years. And I think Hojlund is a very good example of the power of confidence, particularly when you're a striker. I've spoken to loads of ex pros and everyone said when they're feeling it and they're in a really good purple patch, they just certain chances where you take four or five touches or two or three touches to control the ball, they don't need that additional touch because they know they're just in the flow. And there were definitely times in Hojlund's first season where he eventually got into the flow. He gets a goal where the ball, I think Garnach has a shot and it just sort of bounces in off Hojlund's. Chest. Oh yeah, you're lucky now. But on the Converse last season there were times where he would trap a ball and he just it or he tried to trap a ball and it wouldn't work. And I think towards the end of last season it became very clear that if Hojlund was to. To get his mind right, one, he needed a holiday and two, he probably needed to, to. To go on loan or go somewhere else to, to put the pieces back together. And I think that's what's happened to Hojlund.
- [14:27]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. Very quickly, Carl, I'm just looking online, there's a Wonderful picture from 2024.
- [14:32]
Carl Anker
February 2024. I know.
- [14:34]
Ayo Akimolere
Garnacho Mainoo. And here we are talking about the exits of these players. As a fan of Manchester United, is it sad to see that it just hasn't worked out?
- [14:44]
Carl Anker
Yes, I think, I think it's particularly a club like Manchester United that giving young players the opportunity is how Manchester United defines themselves. It's on the back of more than one Manchester United shirt or in the nape of the collar. Youth, courage and success. That is one of the club mottos. And at the time it looked to be main who Garnacho and Hojlund were gonna be the standard barriers of that for the foreseeable future. And then here we are just over a year later, Mainoo isn't playing games, Garnacho is in the bomb squad. I'm not, I'm gonna say Garnacho isn't blameless in his position in the bomb squad. There are some mistakes that have been self inflicted and Hojlund too. Football changes really, really quickly and David's been working in this industry a lot longer than me so he'll be able to give you other examples of players who've had a great season. You're thinking, oh yeah, that's it. They're going to be the be all and end of this football club. Only for them to be out of the manager's plans a year later. So it's a pity. I think one thing that Ineos have been trying to communicate since they've been in charge of sporting the season at Manchester United is that while they're not going to be perfect, they're not afraid to iterate and change direction quickly. If they think something is a mistake, they're not going to let that mistake and I'm going to use air quote mistake or decision linger and they're going to try and change that very, very quickly. So if you are a Manchester United fan that perhaps got frustrated at fringe players staying at the club for far longer than you would have liked to. There are players like Victor Lindelof, who was a Manchester United player for probably a bit longer than he needed to be, or Eric Bay players who perhaps could have been sold or should have been sold, but eventually ran down their contracts and eventually left on a free. I think Ineos are trying to stop that and trying to move on very quickly and try and use those players to raise additional funds to get players who can better suit what they want to do. So I'm very torn in this situation. I genuinely thought it'd be a no brainer that Manu would be a Manchester United player for the next decade. The fact that this is even being discussed is a little bit frightening to me, but we'll see.
- [16:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. David, on the subject of Manchester United, any more incomings or outgoings in the final days of the transfer window?
- [16:57]
David Ornstein
I think there's a bit of attention being paid to this goalkeeping situation. Lammens is of interest. It's not as advanced as has been reported. Clearly it's quite delicate because it might need somebody to leave. There's no takers, it seems right now for Onana. He's also got the Africa cup of nations in the winter, maybe a bit more chance of Alti, Bayern Deer leaving in terms of maybe some interest from Turkey, etc. But none of this is set in stone and so it's inconclusive. The goalkeeping situation. United's focus I suspect is more on outs right now. Antony. There's some positive movement with Real Betis Garnacho and Chelsea will probably happen on deadline day. Hojlund, we've already touched upon Malacia. I'm sure alone could be sorted before the window shuts. The one that's less certain is Jadon Sancho because I'm sure there's lots of interest, but it has to be right for him and. And it definitely doesn't seem that we're as close for resolution on that front as we are on some others. Let's remember that United still have January 2026 when they could do some of this business and until June 30, 2026 to meet their requirements, PSR, FFP in this accounting cycle. But the noises you're getting from around Old Trafford, having done quite a bit of incoming business so far. It's not that the door is closed to further additions, it's just that the priority now seems to be getting players to head in the opposite direction.
- [18:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, right, let's move on. Because one club that has no problem in selling players is Chelsea. We'll talk about them and also Arsenal next.
- [18:41]
David Ornstein
This is the Athletic FC podcast Next with IO Akimolere.
- [18:47]
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- [19:57]
If you've used Babel, you would Babble's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handling. Handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [20:33]
Carl Anker
Foreign.
- [20:38]
Ayo Akimolere
Let'S begin with Chelsea, Christopher Nkouku and Nicholas Jackson. First up David.
- [20:42]
David Ornstein
Thoughts on that Nkunku is definitely unclear. There's going to be a lot of interest in such a high quality player and it's not worked out so well at Chelsea, which opens the door to opportunities. You know we've seen Bayern linked with him, we've seen reported on that and even Leipzig stepping up talks over a potential permanent deal. I think that was about a week ago Roughly that we charted that on the Athletic, but there's no guarantee that will happen. And I think the the Nkunku one is now linked to Xavi Simmons. So if Nkunku happens, maybe Simmons goes to Chelsea. If Nkunku doesn't happen to RB Leipzig, then maybe Simmons doesn't. It could be a late one, plausible nothing happens. I. I don't have info on things being advanced on Nkunku yet. Jackson, I do expect to leave. Again, not set in stone, but there's a very good chance of it. Because there's so much interest in him. Chelsea are willing to let him go, most likely either permanent or loan with obligation to buy. I don't see how there would be a way back given Chelsea's recruitment and for him and his career. It seems like he's open to these possibilities. Whether it be a Bayern or Juve or a Newcastle or an Aston Villa or somebody else. There's strong interest in him from the uk, from abroad. Chelsea's financial demands will be a factor in this. Aston Villa, for example, really like him. Unai Emery's worked with him at Vil Villarreal, but they don't know if they can afford it. If it's a loan, Chelsea want a significant loan fee, no doubt. If it's a permanent, how high is that going to be? Can clubs afford it? And so let's see. Because Chelsea were always looking to make a decision on this after the Newcastle Liverpool game because there's so much striker movement Isaac Whistler, Strand, Larsen etc and Jackson falls into that bracket. That match is now out of the way. So that's why you're seeing so many links and reports around Jackson. It's highly possible that something develops before the deadline.
- [22:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Him, Carl. I'm also looking at some other players here. Disassi, Tyreek, George, Ben Chilwell, Raheem Sterling, I mean Sterling and Chilwell are on bumper contract. Could that also be an obstacle as to why certain teams don't come in.
- [22:48]
Carl Anker
And buy absolutely big wages and players north of let's say 26 very often I'm talking Premier League players now, to be very specific. Premier League players within the top six end up in this sort of nether zone. I wrote a piece of during one of the lockdown seasons about what I refer to as almost stars. So players that aren't players that could be star players at Europa League clubs but are trapped and are unwanted at Champions League clubs. So we are looking at players like let's say Jesse Lingard in his final days at Manchester United, who could have done a role for a number of clubs in the bottom half and lower down the table. But because he was on £100,000 a week, that made him prohibitively hard to move on on a permanent deal. He ends up running down his contract and eventually going to Night and Forest or to use another former Manchester United player, Brandon Williams. Brandon Williams emerges in the 1920 season as a backup left back to Luke Shaw. When Luke Shaw is injured, goes to the Europa League semi final and more than one Premier League club, I think particularly Southampton, tried to loan him after Luke Shaw returned. And when Manchester United asked for that club to go 50, 50, I believe Southampton were incredibly surprised at how large Brandon Williams wages were. So Raheem Sterling is on. On a very conservative estimate, north of £250,000 a week. Raheem Sterling has also played an astonishing amount of football. He is his age. He's also in his mid-30s in terms of footballing age because he's been around since 17, 18 years of age. So if you're, if you're a football club and you can afford to play, you can afford to pay a football player £250,000 a week. Why would you pay that sum for someone like Raheem Sterling, who while indeed a fantastic football player. Why would I pay that much money in contracts for a player who is towards the end of his career rather than towards the start of his career? Very similar to Ben Chubb Romulu. Lukaku is a very, very good example of the sort of the Chelsea, the Chelsea or the Premier League bomb squad in that Lukaku. We now know Lukaku is a Serie A great. Put him in Italy, he eats. But when he was surplus the requirements of Chelsea, he was just in this half and half nether zone because Inter Milan did kind of want him, but they couldn't afford him because his wages were this way. And it was only eventually when his release clause hit 35 million that Napoli came in. And I think that's happened to a lot of these players, which is why this is what you're seeing when David is talking about these loan opportunities. A lot of the clubs in Europe want to loan them because they're going well, we can't afford to pay 40 million and then also cover this person's wages. Can we just have a rental for now? I think that's. And again, David's been working this industry for a lot longer than I. I'd be really interested to get his thoughts on has there been a rise in loans with Obligations to buy or loans with opportunities to buy in the last since COVID I should say that's my theory. I'm going to stop talking because David can then tell me if I'm right or wrong.
- [26:02]
Ayo Akimolere
I'm interested in that. David, is there some sense to that?
- [26:06]
David Ornstein
I don't have the numbers in front of me and haven't tallied up what Carl's asking but he strikes at the heart of a really interesting topic because football is trying to now find post Covid many more creative solutions than they were previously and that brings into the conversation loan, loan with option, loan with obligation, loan with conditional option, loan with conditional obligation if certain criteria are met. A fascinating one was with David Rya from Arsenal. From Brentford's Arsenal. Yes, yes, because that was more born on trust and an understanding that Arsenal didn't have the finance in place to do the deal financially at that point in time, so they took him on loan. But if it's a loan with a formal obligation to buy, that goes on the PSR financial fair play calculation now and therefore it's the same really as a permanent transfer. It only helps you on cash flow because obviously the money's not going out until later, but it's hitting your books now. However, if you manage to reach an agreement with some kind of unwritten understanding that you will definitely make this permanent further down the line and that trust is honored, which it was, it seems with Arsenal and Brentford then you can legally do a deal that is loan. The payment will come later and then that helps you in your FFP SR and accounting situation in the here and now. And so yeah, that's being explored in different cases. You know there were some reports about how Arsenal looking to do loan with obligation for Hing Cape right now because it will help them in their PSR now. No, no, no, no, it will go on their PSR now unless you can do a Raya style deal where the money is genuinely paid later. But that is, it's going to take some bravery on the part of relationships to execute it. I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points Carl's touched upon like a Ben Chilwell, a sterling. This whole pod has talked about bomb squads so Chilwell is, is among a number of players who didn't even get used in in the early main top, you know, senior players, the sort of relied upon individuals are coming back to fitness so they've not had any football and you're expecting clubs to say yeah, come, we'll take you, we'll pay you Handsome money. Come play for us. We don't know about your fitness, we don't know about your match readiness. That's such a risk for them. And so it's almost counterproductive that a lot of them like Chilwell haven't even had, had the minutes in the legs, not even organized friendlies, some of them behind closed doors, empty stadium matches just to almost prime them for transfers. Which sounds ott, but it's not because this is important for your squad size and for your finance, finances and to get players playing football. So you might see players like him, if nothing can be sorted in the next day, staying until January and then readdress the situation or have their contracts cancell by mutual consent paid off and then they go and apply their trade elsewhere as a free agent. Sign outside of the window. Raheem Sterling. There will be interest in him, no doubt. There always is here. He's training well in like more of a loans group. So it's. It's not sort of horrible conditions. I don't know if they get to eat in. In the main building or whatever, but they're looked after.
- [29:46]
Ayo Akimolere
He doesn't get the pasta, but he gets the potatoes. I get you really.
- [29:51]
Carl Anker
It's really tough when you, when you.
- [29:52]
David Ornstein
Talk about it is when you talk.
- [29:54]
Carl Anker
About bomb squads in France, they call it the loft.
- [29:58]
David Ornstein
So bomb squad name.
- [30:00]
Carl Anker
Bomb squad, yeah. And I'm not a fan of describing players as deadwood either because earlier in the summer we refer to a group of players as the Manchester United five. So Sancho, Anthony, Malacia, Rashford, Garnacho, and these players were told you are not going to train with the main group. And we prefer if you are going to use Carrington, Carrington's facilities that you arrive after 5 o'. Clock. So you do not enter, interact with the main group. And if you talk to players who have been in this sort of situation, it can be a really isolating experience. You are not using the facilities you've used all the time. It's the. You go to work and someone's sat at your desk. You try and log into something. Your password isn't used anymore. There's a photograph from Axel d' Zasi on Snapchat and it's just captioned life and it's him with two or three other players in Chelsea's. We can. Okay, we'll use the term bomb squad and. And they're used. They're in a substantially smaller changing room and they are using facilities that two or three people in the comment section have said I've they're comparable to means in Sunday League. That can be really isolating experience. That can be a really difficult experience. Last summer, the PFA released a statement urged guidance to Premier League clubs saying, could you please stop using this bomb squad method to get to try and force players to move on. As these are. These are employees and they're saying it's isolating experience. It's not a good way to train, as David has said, it's not. It is not a good way to put yourself in a shop window. If you're training with the under 23s, you're not being afforded preseason games, you're not getting minutes, you're not being put in match day squads, you're barely getting mentioned by your manager in press conferences. How are you supposed to restart your career when the outside noise is saying you're not good enough? The counter argument to that is for a lot of managers historically they like using bomb squads or lofts or however you want to use it to put a line in the sand and to sharpen their authority. Some players say once a bomb squad is created, if you're a player who's not in the bomb squad, you are more enthused or energized because you're like, oh, I'm one of this manager's person and I'm going to now do my hardest to make sure I don't end up in the bomber squad.
- [32:21]
David Ornstein
Specifically on Sterling. I think from players perspective, the onus is on Chelsea now in. In these final throws of the market. Come forward with some proposals for him and then he will make his decision. Why does he have that kind of power? It's because he's under contract for the next two years still and is his right. What we saw with Arsenal a year ago is that things might get sorted late. There's potentially a good and attractive financial deal to be done for clubs. That time round, Arsenal didn't pay a huge amount of the wages. It was mainly shouldered by Chelsea. I don't think there was even a loan fee. It didn't work out as planned. I think Sterling would probably say that was largely due to how late this evolved without proper time for conversation with the manager, where he was going to play Mikel Arteta, what role he would have, where on the pitch he would be deployed and he would have liked that to have been different this time around, clearly. But here we are again getting to this stage. I think for family reasons his preference would be to stay in London, but that depends on the opportunities. If doesn't materialise and attractive propositions come from abroad. Maybe he does that, maybe nothing materializes. And then we get back to the question of do contracts get paid off? Do people wait until January and then readdress the situation? And so yeah, it's one of many complicated outlooks on the market.
- [33:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, next we'll talk Arsenal and the future of Donna Ruma.
- [34:01]
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David Ornstein
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David Ornstein
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- [36:09]
David Ornstein
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.
- [36:13]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, David, let's talk about Arsenal because they've made a lot of signings but there are a lot of players that have been hinted as being surplus to requirements. By that I mean Kivior Zinchenko, Rhys Nilsson, La Conga. Do you remember his name? What. What's the deal here? Because there's a lot of buys but not many sales.
- [36:32]
David Ornstein
Arsenal have done a huge amount of business in wood and it's pretty unprecedented and, and remarkable. A nod I guess to the ownership who have continued to back the club in the market and, and spending significant amounts of money and empowering director level in terms of Tim Lewis and, and then Andrea Berta, sporting director. Fairly new. Still Michael Arteta with the resources where many people have said why don't you make this signing, spend some more money? It was just one signing away. Why didn't you get a striker in January? And maybe they've reflected on that and three second place finishes and no major piece of silverware since the 2020 FA Cup. And although there's no internal pressure on Mikel Arteta, they fully back him. They want to get over the line and there is external pressure, a lot of, of expectation and anticipation on what Arteta will do this season and it seems like they're not hanging about now, they're not waiting for tomorrow, they're not waiting for their next window. They're getting on with business now. So yeah, we could see Hingape arrive. That's something that's being worked on, but it's not done yet and let's see if it does materialize before the deadline. It could go quite far down. They want him, he wants them. But there's 60 million euro release clause by Leverkusen. Probably want that met. Efforts are being made to try and explore whether a lower fee that's deemed more realistic at this stage of the market can be satisfactory to all parties. It will likely depend on space being made as well as finances. So Kivior is being pursued by Porto. Is that going to get done positionally and financially? Clearly a relation to Hingape. Zinchenko is a player who Arsenal for some time now would be open to the idea of him Leaving. But will it develop? Who are the suitors? Do we have enough time? Does he want it to happen? That shows you that Arsenal have been looking to maybe add some greater quality on that left side because Hingape, yeah he's a left sided center back but he can also play left back and he gets up the pitch as well. He overlaps even though you could point to a Califurian. A Miles Lewiskelly Califuri has missed some time for injury. Louis Skelly, he's only had one season. He's very new to this and it will take time to develop and bed in. Sometimes he can be by youth and where he developed be deployed in midfield as well in a more central area. Eze who they signed, if they put him towards the left he comes in typically so you want someone who can go out. Hincapi is not a new target. He's been very high on Arsenal's recruitment list for some years now, even though he's still at a young age. And so yeah, we've touched upon Kivior at the time of recording. No deal done but it's clearly being worked on. We've touched on Zinchenko. I reported talks between Arsenal and Stuttgart over Fabio Vieira is clearly complicated on what Stuttgart are able to pay. And so then I think the parties were looking at maybe a loan with an obligation but no resolution at this point in time. And are there going to be other scenarios potentially for him? He was on loan at Porto last season. Rees Nelson, Fulham were pursuing that situation. Obviously they had him on loan last season but you hear them linked with other targets. Is that moved away from the agenda? But then what else could open up for. For Nelson because there is interest from elsewhere. So there are possibilities in. In various parts of the pitch for Arsenal to recoup. Andrea Berta has understandably been credited and received significant praise for the way he's brought players into the club. But a test of a sporting director will be how you can move players on. And Arsenal haven't been prolific sellers. Many people have pointed out Alex Oxe Chamberlain, the record sale at £35 million. There was Alex Awobi too. That was a little bit less than that. But you know, what can they recoup and what movement could happen before the deadline. And I think that's a real really important question question for Arsenal. So a lot going on at Arsenal and. And I think yeah, the focus will be more on outgoings than incomings before the deadline. But we've got to keep an eye on the hing Happy situation And when that window shuts, I think Arsenal will need to take a very deep breath on. On what they've done before then attacking all competitions with this impressive deep squad that is showing strength in depth like we've never seen before. When there's injuries to somebody like a Sakura and Odegaard there's not a great deal of panic when, when you've got like a Wanieri, an Eze, a Madweke and so that's why people are saying sort of no excuses now it's time to deliver.
- [41:29]
Ayo Akimolere
David mentioned strength in depth. With the kind of signings that Arsenal have brought in, do Arsenal now have no excuse as to winning the Premier League this season?
- [41:41]
Carl Anker
Speaking as a non Arsenal fan, I.
- [41:43]
Ayo Akimolere
Mean that's why you're the person to ask, right?
- [41:46]
Carl Anker
You should win it. You should.
- [41:47]
David Ornstein
I have, I have for the last.
- [41:49]
Carl Anker
So last season I predicted Arsenal to win it on the Athletic and I said I believe they're going to win one of the next three and I truly believe Mikel Arteta's got a critical mass of talent there and if the injury luck is on your side. Liverpool are fun. I don't know how good they are. Liverpool are really, really fun but they seem like they could need some backup at centre back. Manchester City are. That's a coin toss. I have no idea there. I'm predicting Pep Guardios things are very odd. Whereas Arsenal are good. Have players that indicate they should be getting better and have solved nearly every single problem position they've had on the field last season. So yeah, if you finish second and you've made a bunch of improvements you should be on your way to finishing first next season.
- [42:40]
Ayo Akimolere
David, you're talking about, you know, end of the transfer window. I'm. I'm going to throw three names at you from Manchester City perspective in particular Edison, Ortega, what's happening there and finally he's donna rumor coming to Manchester City. That's all I need to know. David, before we, before you let you go.
- [42:58]
David Ornstein
Edison would need to leave for Manchester City to sign a new goalkeeper. Unless yeah, Ortega departed but we don't know movement on that. There seems to have been rumblings of a. Of an Edison departure but at the moment City are counting on James Trafford and Edison as their first two keepers and Ortega remains in the mix. Scope for movement there but I don't know of anything just yet. That's where the donrum interest comes. There's been some contact with PSG but it's not said to be advanced yet. Certainly no agreement and City are kind of saying it's not negotiations, it's that, you know, we're aware of the situation. There's some dialogue between the clubs. Semantics really. The word from PSG is that they think he will end up there. Maybe it goes down to the, the last minute of deadline day, but they think Donn Ruma will end up at City. I don't know if that's wishful thinking. I don't know if it's because they've already said very public goodbyes. Maybe that's why they said their goodbyes to try and sort of get this moving. They wanted around 40 million euros. City would be nowhere near that. Maybe there's a compromise that can be found if they do reach an agreement. Personal terms won't be an issue with. Well, they will find a solution. You know, he's very handsomely paid, so maybe there are some issues, but I'm sure they'll get there. And there's every chance that that doesn't materialize because he's football. He's got a contract at PSG until next year. Who was it that said, I swear.
- [44:24]
Ayo Akimolere
He was saying his goodbyes this weekend. It felt like it was. It's reached that point where the crescendos.
- [44:28]
David Ornstein
Hit and you know, didn't Emi Martinez say his goodbyes at Aston Villa and he was crying.
- [44:33]
Ayo Akimolere
This is also true. Also true, gents.
- [44:35]
David Ornstein
Also true. And then he looks like he'll be staying at Villa unless he enters this goalkeeping merry go round at the last minute. That'd be fun. So, yeah, like the goodbyes don't necessarily mean the deal is done. And yeah, and we'll have to. It brings all manner of questions. Donna room I think is unbelievable. I've seen him live many times and admire him greatly. Saved PSG almost single handedly against Arsenal in the Champions League semi final second leg. But is he the right style for Pep Guardiola in the way he likes to play? Is he going to be first choice? James Trafford was told when he signed that he's likely to be the number one there. So that's a situation that needs to resolve.
- [45:15]
Ayo Akimolere
All right, gents, let's leave it there. Carl, David, thank you so much for your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [45:25]
David Ornstein
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabro and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company Production.
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Carl Anker
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