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- [00:00]
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Marketing Professional
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David Ornstein
Race the sails.
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David Ornstein
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- [01:58]
Verizon Voice
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:05]
Matt Davis Adams
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast. I'm Matt Davis Adams. Nico Williams has attracted attention from all over Europe, but now looks likely to end up at either Barcelona or Bayern Munich. We'll discuss that the futures of Xavi Simons and Hugo Ekatique and find out why nobody in the Premier League seems to want Victor Osimhen. Joining me today we have the Athletics football correspondent, David Ornstein. Hello, David.
- [02:30]
David Ornstein
Hi guys. How you doing?
- [02:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Really well, thank you. We've also got with us our German correspondent, Seb staffer Bloor K. Seb?
- [02:36]
Seb Staffer Bloor
I sure am. Hello.
- [02:37]
Matt Davis Adams
Excellent, right? Athletic Club's Nico Williams has attracted the interest of various Premier League clubs. David, what's the latest on where he might end up?
- [02:46]
David Ornstein
Yeah, this has been one of the most talked about players pretty much in world football, Matt, for some time, and rightly so because he's a fantastic talent. Such a young age, 22, he's got his whole career ahead of him and he's turned the heads of some of the biggest clubs in the Game. The truth is, we don't know where he's going to end up at this point in time, but a direction of travel is becoming a little bit clearer. We take the Premier League teams, the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and others have looked at him for quite a considerable period of time, but for whatever reason they haven't been able to push ahead with a deal. Whether that be the finances involved, the release clause, the salary, gaining his preference in terms of him choosing them. Because last year I think it was looking most likely that it would be Barcelona if he was to leave Athletic Bilbao. He ended up staying and so it was always going to come back round as a potential topic this time round. And again, the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea very keen on him, as we've heard in recent weeks and months. But the latest that we're reporting, and you can read more about it in this week's deal sheet, is that clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea are actually believed to be cooling their interest. And the sides that are coming to the fore are the likes of Barcelona and Bayern Munich. Now, Barcelona is obviously complicated by their financial situation and whether they would be able to register him and other players. The release clause is around 60 million euros that we think needs to be paid in one go. The salary is already substantial. But he's got the opportunity to renew at Athletic Bilbao, which would take him into even higher echelons. If he's to go to the Premier League, he would want more than that. We hear that if it was Barcelona, where he's got a great friend in Lamina Mal, is said to be a great attraction to him. Perhaps he would be a bit more flexible on. On that salary. And I hear that they're doing everything they can to try and make this possible. But will it be possible that. That's the big question. In the meantime, Bayern Munich have been looking at this very closely. We learned that they have made a contract proposal to him. It's very plausible that they'll make another one. You never sort of normally get to the point of an agreement straight away with. With such a player when. When the numbers involved are so high. But I think they will be more a case of sort of monitoring his situation and understanding what they want to do from a number of options that they have, which I'm sure Seb will come on to talk about. And it doesn't seem that they're in the driving seat on this, but they are in the environment. Perhaps Barcelona are in the driving seats, but they're not over the line. And of course, as We've seen with Nico Williams before, it's not impossible that he stays at the club he's with now. And so we don't know how it's going to end. But definitely there has been a shift towards the sort of Barcelona, Bayern Munich's as opposed to the Arsenal Chelsea of this world.
- [05:49]
Matt Davis Adams
Tell us a bit more then, Seb, about about Bayern's interest in him. Do they believe they've got a genuine chance of being the club that he chooses and where would he fit in now?
- [05:58]
Seb Staffer Bloor
I would say they're a little bit down on their chances, I think just repeating what David said, I think they expect him to move elsewhere. They would like to be proven wrong. But this is quite an interesting story because for most of this year, and indeed for the LATTER Half of 2024, the assumption was that Florin Wirtz would be playing for Bayern Munich and obviously their budget was prepared in preparation for that. And what would have also happened had Wirtz joined the club, there would have been a formation change to accommodate him in the same side as Jamal Murciala. Now sometimes when we talk about interest in players, it's a little bit misleading. Most major European clubs will have long term shortlists of players that they monitor. So it's not just a question of kind of add player to shortlist. Now we're interested. Although that interest in Williams has accelerated since Wirtz decided to go to Liverpool, which Bayern have known would happen now for about six weeks, I think I'm right in saying. I think Bayern's problem goes beyond that though, because Bayern have been wanting to renew their attacking midfield wide forward positions for quite some time. But with Serge Gnabry's contract still with a year to run, he will stay this this year. He will not leave the club this summer. Kingsley Kyman is a bit more of a question mark. I think Bayern still have to resolve some of those issues first before committing long term to a major player. The thing is, Matt, is that they want to do that because Wirtz does not just leave a technical hole. It's a political problem because Bayern have to sign not just one of the world's best players, but arguably the very best German player of his generation. And that's kind of a. That's an unusual territory for Bayern to be in. And as you'd expect, the club, and you know, several members of the club hierarchy have received a lot of criticism in response. And so the demand now is to kind of find a balance between the major political signings, something with a Little bit of heft, but also something which suits the team and suits the demographics of the squad too, because they've been trying to get some money out of those wide forward positions for quite some time and get out from underneath those contracts. So a star now is quite awkward. Awkward. Even though Williams is seemingly available.
- [07:52]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, David, you mentioned that Arsenal and Chelsea have perhaps called their interest. Is that because they're looking at other targets or because they don't think they can get Williams or because of that release clause which we believe has to be paid all in one go?
- [08:06]
David Ornstein
Yeah. I don't have all the details, Matt, on why their interest is cooling. And that takes us into a realm of speculation which is probably not healthy. Whether it be around the finances involved, whether it be around the. The player, whether he is ultimately the one that they want to go for when they conduct their due diligence. It's probably multiple factors and other options that the clubs are looking at as well. They've got to think about what other work they're doing in their squad and how the financial impact affects that wide position as well. So it does seem from the conversations I've had that both Arsenal and Chelsea are veering in a different direction. Maybe those directions are not yet clear. You know, for example, with Chelsea, we know that Jamie Gittins has been at the forefront of their mind. They came close, it seemed, to doing a deal before the initial transfer window shut. Will that develop again in the coming weeks? He's very keen on the move. We reported a seven year contract was in place. It's the club to club element that needs to be rectified. They made a verbal inquiry for Malik Fofana of Olympic Lyon and there are other options. We've detailed over recent months. Alejandro Garnacho, flip it over to Arsenal and you know, we have talked in great depth about the likes of Rodrigo, who has admirers inside the Emirates Stadium, of Anthony Gordon, who has admirers inside the Emirates Stadium. And Sane was a player that they looked out for the wide positions before he committed to Galatasaray. There'll be others too. We've seen the names floating around. It is quite interesting given that both of those clubs and others, I must say, in the Premier League have looked so closely at Williams and for so long that it appears something that they're not going to be taking forward. But with some of these players, and I say it with total respect to a player I love what I've seen from, we build it up in the public and the media and in fan bases to be something that everybody clamors for, but it might not be the right option for those clubs and they might find that elsewhere. So I don't sense any kind of panic Chelsea and Arsenal around these situations. And you know, in the case of Arsenal they're focusing on the number nine as a priority and and yes, the left sided attacker has been very important for a long time and will continue to be and that's something that they are doing a lot of work on I'm sure behind the scenes, but let's see how it turns out with the nine. I'm not saying it will chronologically happen in that way, but the nine is their top priority. Similarly with Chelsea, they were sorting the striker, they got Liam de Lap in, they are still looking for another versatile attacker and that wide player, but they do have time on their hands now, the market being fully open since Monday and doesn't close until September 1st. So of course there's tons of activity taking place behind the scenes and clubs want to get things settled sooner rather than later. Players want to know their future sooner rather than later, but it doesn't always happen as quickly as they would hope.
- [11:07]
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- [11:13]
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- [12:16]
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- [12:47]
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- [13:35]
David Ornstein
TK around the corner. Look at the space for Christensen targets to aim for and a good ball in and swept home by Ugo Ekitige.
- [13:47]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, somebody else who wants to know their future sooner rather than later is Eintracht Frankfurt's Hugo Ekatike. Seb, you'll have seen plenty of him last season. How impressive was he and how much Frankfurt looking for him?
- [14:00]
Seb Staffer Bloor
Very impressive, Matt. 22 goal involvements in the Bundesliga alone. Played brilliantly with Oman Mahmouche in combination before Mahmouche moved to Manchester City in January, then kind of his role didn't change dramatically, but there were a few tweaks when he sort of played by himself as a lone forward. I still think this is a player evolving, a player developing, a player who has a few holes in his game. A player also who's a kind of a composite of different parts of the role. He's a creator, he's a goal scorer. I wouldn't say he's perfected either, but I, I don't think. I don't think you have to imagine too much when you watch him to see what kind of player he could become. Wonderful technique, great speed, incredibly talented, young. Also a bit of a reclamation project because of course he had that move to Paris Saint Germain in the summer when he might have moved to Newcastle, which didn't really work out. Kind of got lost in the shuff. Came back to Eintracht Frankfurt initially on loan. The city seemed to suit him. Got him very, very well with all the coaching staff at the club. Love the facilities and his trajectory has risen ever since. Weintrakt are not in a rush to sell him, Matt, and this is the important thing. So at the moment they're pretty determined to receive 100 million euro fee for him. The negotiable part of that is structure. They would obviously want a healthy proportion of that upfront, but if it comes in forms of bonuses and adds up to 100 million euros, then that would be fine. They're also not a motivated seller. So while that, you know, high fee, Eintracht Frankfurt's financial situation is extremely healthy and has been for some time and their revenues trebled over the last decade, they're also going to be playing in next season's Champions League.
- [15:29]
David Ornstein
And.
- [15:31]
Seb Staffer Bloor
Their philosophy with their players is they never stand in anybody's way. They wait until the point at which a player has reached the apex of their development in the Bundesliga and you know, in so doing reaching, you know, the highest point of their value and then they're sold. Eintracht's attitude towards him is a little bit different to what it was with Marmusch. With Mahmouche. He'd got as good as he could have got at Eintracht. That was kind of. He was never going to get any better. He was not going to involve as a player in Germany. And so it was the right time to sell him. Ektike is younger. He is, you know, going to have his first proper exposure to Champions League football, which will no doubt do him good. There were parts of his game last season which I could have done with improvement, like his shot selection isn't always the best. His chance conversion, you know, isn't the highest. But these are things that will come. And I think Eintrach's attitude is, well, if no one reaches our valuation, it's absolutely fine. One thing also to clear up here, because I've seen it a little bit online, people think that Eintracht's forthcoming move for Jonathan Burkhardt from Mainz is a Ekatika replacement. It's not. The club see Burkhardt as a part of their squad regardless of whether Ekitiko goes or not. Slightly different position. Burkhardt's a bit more of a right sided player. Ekitike has that sort of left sided trait even though he's a number nine. So that's, that's no indication at all of what will happen next.
- [16:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay, well, Seb mentions there a potential 100 million euro price tag. David, Manchester United have been linked with him. How would they be able to afford that?
- [16:58]
David Ornstein
Well, when you speak to the English clubs, they think that perhaps they could prize EKTK for a bit lower Serban and the German perspective understandably could be different. And it's Eintracht Frankfurt's gift to ask for whatever they like. Maybe if a club got to 80 and some add ons or whatever, I don't know. How they would structure it. But there is some optimism that it's not quite as high ultimately as Eintracht sort of letting it be known. But there is still significant financial commitment when it comes to the player as well on salary and commissions around it too. And many people asking the same question as you, how would Manchester United finance it? I don't know that they're going for him fully, so I think that's a bit hypothetical. Yeah, it seems there's been some inquiries and that's kind of their job to be asking after players and understanding the conditions of a deal. I mean, maybe being interested in the player, but that doesn't mean they're going to do it, you know, Manchester United will be surveying multiple options. We've seen and heard so much about Yokares, about Ektike, now, about Dilap previously. Look, they managed to get the Cunha deal done. They clearly had some more money than that because they were ready to do the Dilap deal. In the absence of Dilap, they're ready to do the. Or exploring doing the Brian and Burmo deal and. And he wants to join them and. And there's a very good chance that will happen, but it's not. Then afterwards, you know, the impression you've got is that they'll need to sell. And so based on the success of sales players such as Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Alejandro Garnacho, maybe a departure for Rasmus Hoyland, whether it be loan or permanent, which would also free up squad space as well for a striker to come in, Tyrell, Malacia, Anthony, etc. Suddenly you find yourself in a very different financial world than than you are now. So we're talking hypothetically here. I can understand the concern about what Manchester United's finances are looking like right now and whether they would be able to fund a player like Ekitike now. But it might not be now that we're dealing with this sort of question. It might be further down the line as the summer progresses. They have the resources as a result of a number of sales and they can push the boat out to pay a lot of money for a transfer fee, salary, commissions for such a striker. It doesn't mean that he will pick Manchester United if that happens, because we've seen that, you know, the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool are among the admirers, many admirers for Hugo Ekatike. There's no obligation for Eintracht Frankfurt to sell at all. As. As Seb explains a lot better than me. And so it is part of Manchester United's due diligence on that position, I'm sure, but I'm not aware of a striker being sort of the next one through the door at Manchester United. I think that is more likely to be Brian and Burmo, if they can strike that deal and the striker situation will be addressed subsequently, no doubt.
- [19:52]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, so lots of clubs interested then. Seb, is there any indication from the player as to A, if he's going to push for this move and B, if he has a preference of destination if he does?
- [20:02]
Seb Staffer Bloor
No. There's no suggestion that he's going to become militant or, you know, flounce out? Not at all. I think he has great respect for what he's been able to do at Eintracht and what they've been able to do for him. I think also further to David's point, the clubs that were solid options have kind of been long term options. That would probably be Chelsea and Liverpool. Even though there's been no bid for him yet, there's no sort of significant club to club progress, the Manchester United thing. We're saying that, yes, as reported, Hugo Ekatike did grow up as a Manchester United fan. I don't think that's really a, you know, a signpost to what he will do next, but that their check with Eintracht about 10 days ago was exactly that, a check. A remaining cognizant of what's happening in the market, what a player's situation is, rather than a kind of determination to get anything done. So I don't think it's reached a stage where he has those options in front of him. I know that Chelsea and Liverpool will both be attractive, but I think we've got a way to go, especially with that asking price and iron tracks position on this deal. We've got a way to go until we know what he's going to actually want to do because there aren't true options available yet.
- [21:12]
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- [23:07]
Matt Davis Adams
Xavi turns fire scores Xavi scores An absolute marvellous Somebody who's been a bit more explicit in his desire for a move. Isabi Leipzig. Xavi Simons. He said that he wants to go. Seb. What sparked that? And Art Leipzig open to letting him go?
- [23:25]
Seb Staffer Bloor
Yeah, it's a slightly complicated situation, Mats. So yes, he has, he's told Ebi Leipzig that he wants to go. It's not a, you know, it's not a malignant situation. His perspective is simply that he's ready for his next step, which is Ebi Leipzig's role in the food chain. They buy players, accelerate careers, they sell them up further up the game towards the summit. And Xavi believes that he's, he's reached that point. In addition to which obviously AB Leipzig are going through a period of change. They, they finished seventh in the Bundesliga last season, so they missed out on European competition altogether. Not just Champions League, but Europa League, Europa Conference League. It's the last place they finished since they were promoted to the Bundesliga. So that's, that's a really, really low point for them. And no doubt that would, that would have impacted Xavi's thinking, I think also from the club's position. When they made his loan deal from Paris Saint Germain permanent in January, they signed him for an initial fee of 50 million euros with additionals that might have taken up sort of the 70, 75, 80 million euro mark. And so when Leipzig concluded that deal in January, there was always the expectation that come this summer things might have changed, but if they were to change, they would be in a position to make a decent profit on their investment any regardless of what had happened in the rest of their season from a team perspective. And at the moment, yeah, I think they. They as a club in that position, they have to be respectful of what players want to do in their careers. And so as a result, I think they value him at around 70 million euros. That's not necessarily the asking price. I think that's what would start a conversation about his future. And so it's all very amicable. I don't think there's any acrimony here. And it's just in the player's view, time for him to move on. And it suits the team as well, because they are going to over the summer shift their demographics a little bit, change their image to being a club where previously they're sort of the feeder side. I think now they want to become a little bit more of a contender consistently, maybe alter some of the demographics, change their recruitment from solely being about young players who can be sold to Premier League sides or to La Liga, to one where following that success that a club like Bayer Leverkusen had with Granit Xhaka, Alex Grimaldo, Jonas Hoffman, players like that, slightly older, slightly towards the late 20s, without sort of resale value, a little bit more in that direction. And as a result, I think the kind of the image of the team is going to be changing. So if Xavi wants to leave the club at this point, maybe it suits everybody if the right offer comes. And that's the important thing. I think it's a Leipziggle act about situation because as long as someone meets their asking price, that's fine.
- [26:00]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay. And as Seb says, David, the asking price is pretty hefty and the player wants to move up the food chain in terms of his career. So in terms of Premier League clubs, he might be interested. Is it the usual suspects then, the teams we've been talking about already?
- [26:14]
David Ornstein
I think there's been a lot of admiration for Xavi Simons over a long period of time from Premier League clubs at the top end, of course, but I'm not aware of him being the top option for any of them. And therefore, if as the summer goes on, they don't get their top targets, they're going to obviously consider a player of such quality. But the financials involved are pretty substantial, as Seb has laid out and therefore I don't know of anything actively developing on the front of Premier League clubs. And they'll have all been aware of his situation. Your Manchester City's, your Liverpools, your Manchester Uniteds, your Arsenals. And that's why you see the odd link from time to time. But not aware of anything concrete developing because he doesn't appear to be their top targets.
- [26:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Is he a boyhood Man United fan as well, Seb, or is he giving any indication as to where he might like to go?
- [27:04]
Seb Staffer Bloor
Not that I'm aware of. I think, as David said, we've reached the point at which clubs have been made aware that he's going to be available and the conditions by which he'd be made available. I don't think the market for him has properly defined itself yet. I think this might become a little bit, not necessarily a saga, but I think this might be something that drags a little bit through the summer because like David said, I'm not saying there isn't any, but I haven't heard in any concrete interest from anyone at the moment. So that might just take a while to develop.
- [27:36]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, we'll stick a pin in that one for now then. Right, Seb, that is your shift done. Many thanks for your company today.
- [27:41]
Seb Staffer Bloor
You're most welcome. Thank you for having me given away again.
- [27:45]
David Ornstein
And this time Osimhen looks as if.
- [27:47]
Marketing Professional
He is on someone and he has his finish.
- [27:50]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, strikers are in demand right now, but 140 doesn't seem to be attracting the attention of those in the Premier League. Is Victor Osimhen, the Nigeria international spent last season on loan at Galatasaray from Napoli. It was a huge success, scored 37 goals in 41 appearances in Turkey. David, does it. Does a permanent move to Galatasaray seem like the most likely outcome for him at this point?
- [28:14]
David Ornstein
Well, I'm not as closely across this as I am some other situations, but Galatasaray do want to make it permanent, clearly, if they can both make the finances work and convince him to join them. Al Hilal in the Saudi pro league have been pursuing the situation very aggressively. However, it seems that repeatedly he has rebuffed their advances or they haven't quite come to an agreement. It doesn't seem to have dissuaded Al Hilal, but initially it would have been for the club World Cup. Right. And that doesn't seem to be the case now it started, although they could get deals done before the knockout stages if they get there for a long time. People I speak to at Premier League clubs were indicating that that's where they think he will end up, the Saudi pro league. And, and it could still be the case, but the fact that it hasn't happened so far would indicate that it might not be his priority. Premier League clubs are always heavily linked with him. Manch, Arsenal, Chelsea and, and no doubt they admire him. How wouldn't they admire him as a. A striker, a top player, but that doesn't translate into necessarily doing the deal. And, and the stumbling block for the Premier League club so far seems to be one, the salary expectations and two, maybe he, he's not deemed to be the right character for them. The profile that they're looking for in terms of age, in terms of where he fits into the team, the dressing room and again, many factors involved in, in these scenarios. So clearly there doesn't seem to be a future at Napoli where, where a sale is on the cards. But this is another one which I don't think we have a, an absolutely concrete picture yet. And, and that will inevitably develop later in the summer or as the summer goes on. Do some of the Premier League clubs or clubs on the continent or or beyond start to change their stance, start to be a bit more liberal with their numbers if they get to a point where they're not landing their priority targets, where they're starting to panic, some seasons start and results are going their way, or they're struggling to score goals and he comes back on the agenda as an alternative? And I think a lot of Man United fans, especially on social media, have been sort of pointing towards that. I was quite clear in my reporting early on that he is not a player I expect Manchester United to sign. I guess with all of these situations and all of the clubs involved, we know that football can change and decisions aren't always, you know, set in stone. And until that window closes, stranger things have happened. And so I'm, I'm really fascinated to see what does unfold with Ossimon and I personally love to see him in the Premier League. It would be amazing, but there's no kind of movement towards that firmly as things stand.
- [30:53]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. Well, yeah, there's still more than two months of the transfer window left, so lots to happen between now and then. I'm sure the Athletic is of course, the best place to keep across it all. That's where we're going to leave things for today, though. Many thanks to David and to Seth Seb for their contributions and to you for listening. I will be back on Friday. We'll catch you then.
- [31:14]
David Ornstein
You'Ve been listening to the Athletic FC podcast.
- [31:16]
Seb Staffer Bloor
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal.
- [31:19]
Matt Davis Adams
The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead.
- [31:21]
David Ornstein
To listen to other great athletic podcasts.
- [31:23]
Seb Staffer Bloor
For free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic.
- [31:30]
David Ornstein
Media company production the Athletic.
- [31:45]
Verizon Voice
Now at Verizon we have some big news for your peace of mind for all our customers, existing and new. We're locking in low prices for three years guaranteed on my plan and my home. That's future you peace of mind and everyone can save on a brand new phone on MyPlan. When you trade in any phone from one of our top brands, that's new phone peace of mind. Because at Verizon, whether you're already a customer or you're just joining us, we got you. Visit Verizon today. Price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers for the ones who get it done. The most important part is the one you need now and the best partner is the one who can deliver. That's why millions of maintenance and repair pros trust Grainger because we have professional grade supplies for every industry, even hard to find products. And we have same day pickup and next day delivery on most orders. But most importantly, we have an unwavering commitment to help keep you up and running. Call clickranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [32:46]
Business Owner Voice
When we started writing our thoughts down on paper, it opened up endless possibilities. Ideas could grow beyond the borders of the mind and it changed the world. Somewhere along the way we lost touch with paper, distracted by devices made for every purpose except for thinking and focus on edge. Waiting for the next notification. But what if new technology didn't pull us away from paper but brought us closer to it? Listen. That's not paper. It's the sound of the new Remarkable Paper Pro rewriting the future. A paper tablet with a true color ink display, gentle reading light and unheard of tactility. With digital features for taking notes, thinking and organizing without any distractions. Paper is about to change the world again. Get your paper tablet@remarkable.com today.