Loading summary
Transcript132 lines
- [00:02]
A
The Athletic fc.
- [00:07]
B
Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Emma Payton. Lionel Messi makes history, becoming the World Cup's all time leading scorer. But Kylian Mbappe isn't far behind while France Iraq also saw a more than two hour rain delay. Plus we'll talk transfers with David Ornstein. Well, here with me in the studio today, we have the Athletics, Mark Critchley and Tim Spears. Gents, good to see you. You've. You've ditched the jacket, Critch, which is good to see.
- [00:36]
C
I've ditched the jacket.
- [00:37]
B
But you've done something you said you'd never do in this studio.
- [00:40]
C
Well, look, I said last week I don't wear replica shirts because I'm 35 years old. Didn't go down brilliantly with our commenters and our audience. So I am nothing if not a total hypocrite. So I decided this is what, a 35 year old.
- [00:56]
B
Yes.
- [00:56]
C
In a replica.
- [00:57]
D
Shit.
- [00:57]
C
Looks like it's a peace offering to the haters. I hope you're happy. I bought this when I was 15. I can't explain it, it was totally mindless behavior. But there you go.
- [01:06]
B
20 years later, here you are. We love it.
- [01:08]
E
I mean, long sleeves and a heat wave as well. That's dedication.
- [01:10]
B
It's Critch. After all, I was wearing a jacket in here yesterday. So, Tim, I'm not sure if you caught yesterday's episode, but your daily rankings piece, which is brilliant by the way, but it's been taking a lot of heat from Mr. Mark Critchley. Do you want to.
- [01:23]
C
We're going there already?
- [01:24]
B
Yeah, we're going there. We're going straight in there. So I'm just saying be ready for this to come up a little bit.
- [01:29]
C
Let's do it.
- [01:29]
B
Throughout the episode, what's the beef?
- [01:31]
C
France, number one. And I, I knew I was coming into a position of weakness here because they were obviously going to convincingly beat Iraq the morning afterwards. But I don't know, like, I, I just don't feel that they've been the standout team of the tournament so far. And I think the standout tournament of the team is England.
- [01:47]
B
Okay.
- [01:48]
C
Right. We'll.
- [01:48]
B
We'll get into it.
- [01:49]
C
Okay?
- [01:49]
E
Right, Fine.
- [01:50]
B
Right. And you can have your. Say that.
- [01:52]
E
Okay, I'm pumping.
- [01:54]
B
Okay, let's start by Talking about day 12 then, which also the superstars come out to play. Lionel Messi moved clear of Miroslav closer, scoring both goals in Argentina's 20 win over Austria. Kylian Mbappe tried to keep pace with Messi with two of his own against Iraq in a 30 win for France. More on that to come very shortly. Erling Haaland also got a couple in Norway's 32 win over Senegal. And Algeria beat Jordan 21 as well. But only one place to start and that is by talking about Lionel Messi, now the outright all time top scorer at World Cups with 18 goals. I mean five goals in two games so far at this World Cup. Are there any superlatives left? How do we describe him at this point, Tim?
- [02:38]
E
I guess you're getting into sort of longevity really. And like how is he still doing it at this age? What is it? Yeah, 12 goals since he turned 35 at the World Cup. Saw the Guinness World Records tweeted last night. All the records broke.
- [02:51]
B
Endless at this point though, isn't it?
- [02:52]
E
Yeah, he broke like four records yesterday alone. Yeah. Most World cup goals, most World cup matches played, most matches won by an individual at World cup, most minutes played at a World Cup. It's just mind blowing to be honest.
- [03:04]
C
Most penalties missed as well.
- [03:06]
E
Yeah. Most penalties missed. Yeah, that's a good point. Like what he did at the last World cup was just remarkable and I guess we all kind of thought that was probably it for him. What a way to buy it. But to, to be sort of, you know, we, I think because he makes it look so easy, we just talk about his talent and his sort of gifts, but we have to talk about his desire to keep going. You know, at his age, like he, it looks like maybe he's not in the gym every day and training incredibly hard because he just sort of strolls around and makes it look so easy. But his sort of, his desire to want more, he's done everything in the game. Like it's incredible. Yeah. What else can you say?
- [03:40]
B
What else can you say?
- [03:41]
C
Well, you can say there is something new to say about him because he's now the all time leading World cup goalscorer.
- [03:46]
B
We thought that was going to happen, didn't we?
- [03:48]
C
We thought it was going to happen. I mean five goals already in two games. I think that was enough for the Golden Boot in 2010 with Thomas Muller. So it's incredible the start that he's had and you know, it's extraordinary. We were talking yesterday about how 12 of those goals have come since Qatar 2022. So his. Him post 35. I think he, I think he outstrips even Ronaldo. Several other names of World cup goal scorers. He's beaten them in the past four years, which is extraordinary. Yeah, the Two goals last night. I mean, the first one, it's. It's such a messy goal. It's such a messy goal. That brushstroke of a finish into the corner. The fact that he's in space on the edge of the box. And we always. You ask him, how have you managed to leave Lionel Messi in that much space on the edge of the box? But it's like, even if you stick a man on him, he'll find a moment where he will evade that person, he will get away, he will find that space, and that's exactly what he did on that one. And the Even, you know, is it Thiago Armada who does the dummy, the step over to. To. To let the ball run through to him? Everybody's got an understanding exactly where he's going to be, but you can't do anything about it. And that's the. That's the extraordinary thing. And the two. Now, I mean, that was a different goal, but his tenacity on that and the fact that. Is it. I think it was Seawall, the Austrian defender, who the ball comes to and he's going to clear it. And he's probably looking, thinking, look, maybe he's thinking like, this guy's nearly 39 in two days. I've got time. And he manages to not only get to the ball first, but nutmeg him and score. It's just unbelievable. And the scenes at the end when he's, you know, doing his little parade down the touchline, hugging Maxi Rodriguez, hugging Jurgen Klopp. Everyone just wants a piece of him. And you can understand why, because he's just the best.
- [05:25]
B
Yeah, Magic. We've got an amazing piece up on the Athletic right now, which is entitled Lionel Messi, Improbably still as good as ever, which a number of our writers have contributed to. And it's also got some quotes from Scaloni, his head coach as well, who even he can't describe his impact at the moment. And another piece that you might have missed as well, but Messi's old teammate Xavi, in a column for the Athletic, has written about speaking to him after the Algeria game and telling that he thought he was an absolute joke and that he could only laugh at what he saw on the pitch. And he said it was crazy stuff. But that's Leo. He always turns up at just the right moment. And for me, he is incomparable, almost inhuman. And to be honest, he does seem inhuman, doesn't he? You mentioned the fact that he's turning 39 tomorrow and I think this is what just blows everyone's mind even more, is that longevity aspect as well. Tim.
- [06:18]
E
Yeah, Someone dug out a Wayne rooney tweet from 2012 last night saying, Messi's. Messi's got to be the greatest footballer of all time. He only was 25 then. So, like. So what is to, like, cement that since then? And like, maybe the Messi Ronaldo sort of debate and comparison is probably a bit annoying, but he's now scored 11 goals at World cup since Ronaldo last scored. It's just. It's just. It's just crazy. And also a sort of. It brings this dimension of this World Cup Golden Boot race. We've never seen anything like this, have we? I don't remember anything like this, where the sort of best players in the world are scoring at this rate. So early on, three of them on
- [06:56]
C
the same night as well. Just like last week, I was looking
- [06:58]
E
up the fixtures for the last round. Sadly, they're not on the same night for when they had the last round of matches. But I was kind of. I was trying to think this morning what it reminded me of. You know, in, like, the Olympics, when you get the 100 meters and the sprinters, finally, after years of, like, ignoring each other, they have to race against each other in the Olympics. It sort of feels like that, really. Like who's, who's.
- [07:15]
B
And they will run, like, nine, six.
- [07:16]
E
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of feels like that.
- [07:19]
B
Let's talk about some of those other big names then. And let's get to France, because Kylian Mbappe with two goals to take him onto 16 World cup goals now, but that only tells half the story. Here's the athletics. Matt Slater.
- [07:32]
D
Well, good evening from the parking lot outside the Philadelphia Stadium about six, seven hours ago, there was a very lively tailgate scene going on here. A tailgate is a bit like a picnic to us Brits, but it wasn't very picnicky weather here in Philadelphia. The game, well, France won 3, 0. They beat Iraq. Kylie Mbappe scored two more goals. That is 16 World cup goals in 16 games. Completely ridiculous. He could have scored more. France were very good. He was brilliant. Man of the match. But I think probably the biggest story is what happened at half time, where we had the longest hydration break in World cup history. 131 minutes. We had a lot of very inclement weather, Lightning in the area. It sent everybody scurrying for cover, everyone in ponchos and bin liners. And, yeah, it was a long old wait. They then had to get the squidgies out on the pitch. Players came back out again. Had to warm up again. Game eventually resumes. France stretch their lead from 10 to 3 0. Game plays out. But I do think the break is probably the biggest story of the evening. Closely followed by Mbappe and his goals. I think the really exciting thing there, of course, is how many is he going to score? He's 27. As I said, he's going at a rate of a goal, a game. Of course, Messi stretched the record for goals at World Cups earlier on today to 18. But Mbappe's not done and he plays for France. This record is going north of 20 or I will be absolutely astounded. And the only other thing I should probably tell you is, contrary to what you may have heard, it is not always sunny in filling.
- [09:29]
B
Yeah, sometimes it rains very heavily in Philadelphia, it seems, and we'll get on to Mbappe. But that rain delay, it was extremely lengthy in the end, wasn't it?
- [09:39]
C
Yeah. And I was actually thinking yesterday just how strange it had been that we hadn't had this come up, given it was such a talking point pre tournament, but we were going to get it at some point. We've been talking a lot about momentum shifts as well and watching that first half, you know, I thought Iraq were in the game in that first half and were restricting France and had a handle on them to an extent and certainly doing the best to try and keep them at bay. And then I feel for the play somewhat because if you then go into a two hour delay, it's that different game almost. It's completely different. Forget your hydration breaks. Like Matt said, this is the ultimate hydration break, isn't it? And you've got to go out, you've got to warm up again, you've got to. You're uncertain as to when, you know, your muscles cool down and it's just a real momentum killer. And I think that probably told in the second half as well. I think it's something that we're going to have to get used to though, you know, not just because at this tournament but at future tournaments. We saw it at the Euros as well. We shouldn't forget. I think it was the Germany, Denmark game there where there was from the strikes and, and the game was paused. It's, you know, we live in a world where climate's becoming a lot more unpredictable. It's going to be 40 degrees in London here tomorrow, isn't it? So it's something that we're going to have to get used to. I don't really know how you can stop it, apart from building a roof on every stadium. And I don't think that's the answer either, because you want to keep that open air, natural atmosphere. So it's difficult. But I think it really told on the game yesterday as well, which is a shame.
- [11:01]
B
Yeah. Let's move on and talk about Kylian Mbappe then, who shone again. And last week Adam Crafton said he could be set to become the greatest ever World cup player. Matt, of course, talking there about the goal scoring record, I mean, 16 goals in 16 World cup games, to deliver those goals is one thing, but on the biggest stage as well, it's quite incredible.
- [11:21]
E
Yeah. Does he go under the radar slightly? Maybe he does, because that's just ridiculous though. He's going to be the greatest World cup goal scorer of all time. He'll probably double that. You know, if he plays to Messi's age, he'll double that at least. It's mad to think that, like two years ago, France really struggled for goals at the Euros. They only scored like 4 in 5. I think they lost on penalties in the quarters. It's hard to imagine that now, like, they played against some much better teams back then. Must say Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria. But the team isn't that different. I think the biggest difference for me is Elise coming in. He's got three assists so far. Him and Dua on the other flank, they're just so sort of fluid and interchangeable and obviously had a lot of pace and just make France much more unpredictable, I think. And you also have to credit Deschamps with letting them off the leash. I mean, they got a four man attack. He's brave. You know, teams don't normally win tournaments that way. They're normally built on a strong defense like we see with Argentina. And normally when coaches get older and they're in the job for a few years, they tend to be more, I don't know, reserved and a bit more defensive. But Deschamps going the other way, he's like, I'm leaving, I don't care.
- [12:29]
C
Let's just, let's just go for it.
- [12:30]
B
Let's throw you all on.
- [12:31]
E
So, yeah, I know Chris doesn't rate them, but six goals in two matches so far against, you know, decent opposition. Obviously Senegal, very good team. And Iraq, like Chris says, gave them a few problems. So, yeah, no issues with France at all so far.
- [12:45]
B
You got anything to say to that?
- [12:47]
C
All I'll say is I said the midfield was a problem. Yesterday and he dropped Tiomani and brought Emmanuel Kone. So, you know.
- [12:51]
B
And he was good, wasn't he?
- [12:52]
C
He was good, yeah. He was great.
- [12:53]
B
Norway, Senegal. You said yesterday, before we left, not only could it be the. The game of the day, but game of the tournament, maybe. And I feel like it kind of lived up to the billing. We had five goals, a 32 win for Norway and a couple of goals for Erling Haaland as well.
- [13:06]
C
Yeah, I think what I said happened again, look at that. Two teams that attack really fast and direct. I thought Norway really impressed me, actually. And I'm interested in this France game. I'm holding out for something to show up France, but I'm interested because obviously both of them will now go into that game hoping to top the group, and I think so. There is still something on the line. Haaland, we say we're running out of things to talk about. Messi. I'm running out of things to talk about in Haaland because the. The. It wasn't even just his. Like, we talked about being possessed and how desperate he is to score. There was a couple of misses, I think, where the one. The one that just the end of the first half where it gets hits the post and he's so angry, he's
- [13:50]
B
on the floor whacking the ground, banging
- [13:51]
C
the ground in such frustration because he just wants to score goals at the World cup. And it's such a pure thing to see. I've really enjoyed these two days, these two nights that we've had over these two weeks where those three players have all been going at it the same night. It's felt properly like a World cup. And it's a bit of a shame that we're not going to get that for the rest of the tournament now, but it's been special to. To watch.
- [14:13]
B
It has. So, like you said, you said a minute ago that you called it an event, which is sort of how it. How it's felt in these nights. Just very quickly before we do move on, because you're the king of rankings. Tim Rank for us. Messi, Mbappe, Harland, from what we've seen so far.
- [14:28]
E
Oh, just in. In this tour.
- [14:31]
B
Yeah. Let's go with a couple of games.
- [14:33]
E
I think probably, maybe Mbappe just slightly shades it, I think. And then Messi second and Harlan third.
- [14:40]
B
Just taking your head.
- [14:41]
E
I don't know. That's a tough one. I don't know what. I don't know what I'm basing it on. You don't know what I'm basing it
- [14:46]
C
on, oh, I think I'm going Messi first. Mbappe's been incredible. I thought the interesting thing was that like his, his first goal last night was very much like his third goal against Senegal. And Joe Hart was on BBC talking about the ball. It's inevitable that we have these debates every World cup felt like we avoided it because nobody talks about it for the first week. But Joe Hart's analysis would be really interesting. Just how Mbappe in particular is finding this shot that isn't placed in the top corner but has. It comes on the keeper very quickly and he scored twice through that now and I just wonder whether he's found a little nick on this ball that he's able to just. And he's attempting these shots more often. Interesting to see whether that carries on through the tournament. I think it's been Messi's tournament so far though.
- [15:29]
B
Come on. Come on.
- [15:31]
E
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Emma Peyton.
- [15:39]
B
Right away from the World cup, the transfer window is certainly hotting up. Last year was the summer of the strikers, but this summer we have got a full on midfield merry go round. Let's dive into the midfield maestros who are on the move with our football correspondent David Ornstein. David, really good to see you. Let's start then with the future of Sweden and Tottenham midfielder Lukas Bergwaal. You've reported recently that his preference is to leave spurs this summer. Tell us what you know about that.
- [16:06]
A
Yeah, you mentioned the midfielder. Merry go round, Emma. I don't think many people had Lucas Bergwald down as being one of its participants, but that's exactly what the case is. And I would say there's a very good chance that he could leave Tottenham. The reason being that he, despite being young, very talented and under contract at spurs for some time, hasn't played nearly enough for his liking. But more pertinently than game time, it's where he's been playing or not playing away from the position that he feels he's at his best. The sort of number eight role centrally. And from what we can see of Roberto de Zerbi's formation, Lucas Bergwa's best role in his mind doesn't really figure in that. And from what I hear, that's replicated in training as well. So it's come to the point where Bergwal sees his future being elsewhere and he would like to make a fresh start away from the club. That was communicated to Tottenham and I sense they're probably receptive to it, but they will need to get the right price and there'll be plenty of interest in him. We've already reported on the Athletic, Nottingham Forest. I'm sure there'll be plenty of other clubs from the Premier League and elsewhere in Europe, and if the right sort of offers come in, that's certainly one you could see developing, given that Tottenham don't play European football next season and so the amount of games they play will be reduced and crucially, they're looking at strengthening in central midfield. We've reported about the potential deals, the pursuits of Sandro Tonali, of Matthias Fernandez. Whether it's them or other candidates, Tottenham are looking to bolster in Bergwa's part of the pitch. And with that in mind, it's very plausible you. You could see an exit.
- [18:01]
B
Well, one to keep an eye on then, it seems. I want to bring you in on here because David there mentioned Matthias Fernandez. What. What impact has spurs interest had on Manchester United's pursuit of him?
- [18:12]
C
Well, I think first thing to say is that Manchester United Elliot Anderson was absolutely the number one midfield target for them from the autumn onwards, to be honest. And who knows whether he would have preferred United if they were willing to get up to the price which Nottingham Forest are demanding. But they've been working on alternatives. Fernandez is first in that queue. I think price is the key thing here and West Ham want 80 million. I can see why they want that. I can see why they need that because of the position they're in after the relegation. I would be surprised if United buckland pay that 80 million. I think there's been a reluctance to do that on their front. Do they have the discipline to stick to that? Well, you know, the Anderson thing suggests that they are willing to walk away from targets if. If they feel that they need to. Do West Ham have the discipline to stick to the 80 million demand? I think we'll see United have other targets in the pipeline that has done some groundwork on Bournemouth, Alex, Scott, They've been looking at a lot of midfielders of various types across the Premier League and beyond over the last few months. But yeah, on Fernandez, Tottenham are there as David Sayes as well they're interested. Other clubs will be taking a look, but I think more than anything else, it's going to come down to that price. You know, Are West Ham going to budge? Are United going to budge? Are Tottenham going to pay it? Is anybody else prepared to come in? And until we get a little bit of movement on that, I think this is one that we won't see what happens until we get that movement.
- [19:30]
B
Okay. David, you touched on Tottenham's interest in Sandro Tonali last week. What's the latest on this one?
- [19:35]
A
Yeah, we revealed on the Athletic, Emma, that Tottenham had open talks with Newcastle United in relation to Sandro Tonali very quickly others followed up with suggestions of bids and those offers being rejected. As ever with these things, it's largely semantics. So my understanding was it was more of a conversation between the two clubs at executive level at which spurs having done a lot of work on the player side to gain the feeling that he would be up for joining them and in favor of it. We know about the relationship with Roberto De Zerbi. A really impressive, attractive financial offer to the player in terms of salary, the attractiveness of London as well. So the next step would naturally be to speak to the club that owns his registration and that's what Tottenham have done. The other element to this is that Manchester City are very keen on him. Perhaps there are other suitors too, but I don't think they are as advanced as Tottenham and Manchester City. And you know, that's complicated in its own right because they're also pursuing Elliot Anderson, although the interest in Internali is separate to Anderson. They are both players they might like to bring in and of course it would probably depend on potential departures too. So it's a kind of live situation. I don't know of any significant movement in the last couple of days. Since we most recently reported on it, a lot of people have mentioned Arsenal. They've had long standing interest in him. We reported on deadline day of the January transfer window and I'm sure they've explored it again for this summer. But right now at the time of recording this, I don't know of them pursuing it in the way that Tottenham and Manchester City certainly appear to be.
- [21:30]
B
Tim David mentioned there that spurs have done work on the player and he also touched on the relationship that Sandro Tonali has already got with Roberto De Zerbi. How big is De Zerbi's pull for some of these players? Because that's Tonali. We know that Van Hecker obviously played under him at Brighton. It feels like he's a coach that.
- [21:46]
D
That.
- [21:46]
B
That people want to play for.
- [21:47]
E
Yeah, potentially more than Enzo Maresca. If he's not going to go to Man City, I would. Deserbi. Yeah, it's a funny old transfer, this one. Like I can see why he. Why he wants out from Newcastle. Like there's a real. Compared to. Suppose there's a real sort of staleness about Newcastle, you know, they had the takeover couple of seasons, the Champions League won a trophy, but you know, last season they finished 12th. It's the same manager. They keep selling their best player year on year. Whereas spurs, spurs actually only finished eight points behind Newcastle last season despite having, you know, the worst season in their history, pretty much. But there is a real excitement about Deserbi and you do hear about players wanting to play under him because they know they're going to learn from him in sort of the Guardiola mold, really. Like he's going to teach them something new about football. I mean, what I would say is he probably won't be there too long. You know, judging on his career history tends not to last too long. You'd expect him to have a really good first year and then things tend to sort of implode. That's happened at his last two clubs, at Brighton and Marseille. But yeah, with spurs sort of, you know, spending a. Spending a bit of money, obviously. Van Hecke, they've got a good squad on paper anyway and as David says, the money is good. It seems like they're freeing up their wage well, which I think is probably the most important factor in all this because spurs continuously miss out on players like Tonali year after year. But if they're going to put the wages up, then that's going to be the real game changer for them as well as De Zerbi.
- [23:11]
B
Right away from spurs then, but staying in North London. David, you mentioned Arsenal a minute ago in relation to Sandro Tonali. But another player who's been linked to them is someone that Critch mentioned, Alex Scott from Bournemouth. What's the latest with him?
- [23:24]
A
Scott's a brilliant player and it's no surprise that clubs are looking at him. Arsenal really like him and Manchester United do as well. And I'm sure he would have a host of suitors if it was possible to get him. And I say that very purposefully because if being the key word here, Bournemouth have no intention of selling him. That's the word coming from the club. Even if it was an astronomical offer, they are adamant that he is staying put for the first season at least of Marco Rosa. An interesting element is that his contract is starting to wind down and I'm sure they would like to renew it. But if there's a possibility of the move, I'm not sure he would be in favor of, of an extension at this point. And so yeah, he's been discussed at Arsenal's Manchester United and no doubt elsewhere, but it's Particularly difficult because, you know, in, in these cases it takes two or three, including the player to tango and one of the, one of the key players being the club that he's at now. And, and we can only go on what they're saying and it's that he's going nowhere. So we'll have to see how that develops. But yeah, Scott is a. Is a very interesting case for sure. And the admiration is there from Arsenal, from Manchester United, but whether it materializes into a transfer, it's unclear from our perspective from Bournemouth, they're saying no.
- [24:57]
B
So Bournemouth saying no. You mentioned Alex Scott a minute ago in relation to Manchester United. Is he worth testing Bournemouth's resolve over?
- [25:05]
C
I think he's a great player, as David says. I think he's. He's a ball carrier, really silky with it at his feet. He's composed under pressure. He actually reminds me a lot of Cobby mania in those respects. And so I've always thought like, is he actually really necessary for United? But I think he does a bit more to him than that as well. He does a lot of running off the ball, wins a lot of fouls. There's a touch, and I swear it's not just the haircut, but there's a touch of the grealish about him. He's also central, not wide, which I like. Yeah. As David says, contract up in two years, Bournemouth trying to tie him down. They don't want to sell two years out though. That is in that gray zone where I think clubs will look if they like a player, they'll come in, they'll test the water. Because you're always conscious that, well, if that contract isn't signed then you've got a year later, it's a cut price deal, isn't it? So it's a real key point for a lot of players in that place in the contract negotiations in the United States. Look, I think Fernandez is where a lot of their attention and energy is being focused right now, but that they're capable of doing more than one deal at one time and laying groundwork. As I said, I think the interest in Scott is real and we'll have
- [26:09]
B
to see how the dominoes fall, see how it goes. Just lastly then, David, your one to watch on the deal sheet this week is USMNT superstar following Balogun. Is he set to get a big move after this summer's tournament?
- [26:23]
A
Yeah, Emma, I could really see a transfer developing for Folerin Balogun not only because of his performances at this tournament, but the progress that he's made playing for Monaco. Let's just start with this tournament. Two goals, two player of the match awards, two wins for the usa and they're into the knockout stage. If we look at his situation, he's coming into the last two years of his contract at Monaco. That's the point at which normally you would look to renew or to sell. There have been no talks about a renewal and I don't expect there to be any because Baligun would be in favour of moving on to take the next step in his career. And provided the right offers come in, I don't think Monaco would stand in his way. So for that reason, I would expect a switch to materialise this summer. There is going to be a lot of interest in him going forward. There already is now from the Premier League, from elsewhere in Europe. And so as this tournament goes on, if he continues to impress, then that sort of admiration is only going to grow. And so it's such a topical thing for us to report on and the checks we've made suggest that, yeah, he's. He's on the market and, and things could start to gather pace. I don't think there's a clear direction of travel right now. I think as the tournament comes towards an end and even beyond his involvement and, and as the summer really ramps up in the market, that's when we're going to start. The names of suitors and. And potential destinations, but it is absolutely one to watch and that's why we included it in the deal sheet as
- [28:05]
B
such one to keep an eye on then. David, thank you. As always, it is brilliant to have you on the show. A reminder that every Tuesday throughout the window on the Athletic, we're bringing you our transfer deal sheet where you can catch up on all the latest comings and goings. And Tim, before we move on, Argentina, Atletico Madrid striker Julian Alvarez has publicly told the club that he wants to move on this summer. Of course, he's been strongly linked with a move to Barcelona, but this is what he said to espn. This isn't the right time to talk about this, but I can't hide away either. I try to be an honest person. I've spoken to the people at Atletico Madrid and I think a transfer is the best thing for everyone. I want to fulfill my dream. I mean, what have you made of this ongoing saga?
- [28:51]
E
I just think it's the sad reality of being Atletico Madrid, where they're forever going to be the third biggest club in Spain. It's a real shame because he's really sort of found a home there. Moving on from Man City was obviously a bit of a risk for him, but his goal and assist record has been phenomenal. So just an inevitability that when Barcelona or Real Madrid can call in, he has to move on. But he had an incredible season. 21 goals for club and country. I think he's going to play a hugely important role in the next few weeks as well. Messi's obviously stolen all the headlines so far, but when Messi isn't firing, he's the one that they turn to. So, yeah, shame from. Let's go. But also pretty inevitable.
- [29:32]
A
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Emma Peyton.
- [29:40]
B
Right. It is time now for our do youo Know? Daily Trivia on day 13. Tim, I've heard you're very good at these.
- [29:48]
E
Have you? That's not true.
- [29:50]
B
That's what people are saying. Okay, so our question for today is, do you know who scored the most goals in a single World cup tournament with 13?
- [30:04]
C
Oh, you know what? I thought to look this up before because of the messy thing, and I thought you would. Jusantang.
- [30:10]
B
Wow. Oh, wow.
- [30:11]
C
I didn't even look it up. You know, I didn't actually look it up.
- [30:14]
D
That is.
- [30:14]
B
That is you coming in after yesterday, making up for it.
- [30:18]
C
Come on. After. Yes, I got it right yesterday.
- [30:20]
B
No, it took about 10 minutes. Yeah.
- [30:22]
C
But, you know, the important. The destination is the important thing.
- [30:24]
B
See, the homework's paying off. Crit. Well done. 13 goals in 1958. And that was remarkable, really, considering that was his only World Cup. Time to talk. England now ahead of their second group game against Ghana to nine. Thomas Tuchel's side got off to a flyer with a 42 win over Croatia on match day one. Meanwhile, Ghana beat Panama 1 nil to put them all also on three points in group L as well. Tim, how are the vibes, do we think, going into this game, it feels like everything is. Is pretty positive around England. I. I don't think any of us realistically expected them to perform like they did in the second half. And maybe that's just us being typically pessimistic. Really?
- [31:01]
E
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know this is like an international podcast, but we are English and I do want to talk about the weather. Like, you know, it's going to be. It's going to be. Feels like 38, apparently for the game.
- [31:12]
B
Right.
- [31:13]
E
Like, I mean, it's like 35 here and like, you know, that's too much. That's too much for me. I'm no, footballer. Football, but yeah, exactly, yeah. So, yeah, I don't know, like, I guess we'll find out how much the weather played. A difference in the last game where it seemed air conditioned stadium sort of led to a sort of a Premier League style performance of, you know, high pace, high pressure, incessant attacks. It's going to be a very different type of game. You know, we know that Ghana, you'd imagine, are going to sort of sit deep and try and frustrate England. But this is good, this is a good test. You know, they absolutely stank the place out of the Euros last time against teams that did that, so. But the vibes do feel different. They don't feel or look like they're carrying like baggage to me. They don't. They certainly did two years ago. They look like the weight of the nation was on them. I don't know why, but Tuchel has potentially released that from them. And in Harry Kane, you know, our version of Messi Mbappe in Haaland, I
- [32:06]
B
won't ask you to.
- [32:08]
E
Where does he rank? Where does he rank it? You know, yeah, he's. He's in the best form and sort of freshness that I've ever seen him at a major tournament. And I think that's, that's England's trump card, really.
- [32:20]
B
What are you expecting from tonight?
- [32:21]
C
Well, I'm expecting tonight, you know, if you, if you're looking not to get carried away, don't come to me because I'm clearly a lost cause already. Don't follow my example. I don't think anyone's going to get carried away, to be honest, because I think there's, I don't think there's this arrogance. I don't think that that's the mentality that England have built in this squad over the last few years. There might be an inhibition. And I thought the most interesting thing about the game last week was that. Anthony Barry, halftime team talking interview. Sorry. And I'm really interested to see whether he does another one and whether it's half as interesting as that one was. But he was talking about nervous energy, he was talking about fearful patterns. That's fascinating to me because that's very familiar stuff. It's the Euro 2020 final, it's the 2018 semifinal against Croatia, but they absolutely shed that in the second half. And that's why, you know, I was talking about the performance a bit yesterday, but that's why I was so impressed with the performance because it was a mental shift and it's about bottling that confidence and, you know, that exuberance that they showed, but also putting a lid on that bottle and containing it. And I think this coaching staff, this setup, that's what their aim is, to make England express themselves while also not getting to too big for their boots. It's a tough balance to strike, but I think it's one that they can do. Based on the performance last week, what I want to see, I think, is just a little bit more defensive solidity. John Stone's one more game sharper, one more game to build that understanding with Edriconza. I love Nico O'Reilly, I have to say that because I go to the same barbers as him and he sat next to me in the chair sometimes.
- [33:52]
B
Nice guy.
- [33:52]
C
Is he too? Well, he was quiet, fair enough. I didn't want to pry, but on the basis of one game last week, I didn't think he was great as a defensive fullback outside of pep system, that's just one game. So I want to see just a little bit more solidity there. I think that was the biggest concern last week. So there's plenty of reasons not to get carried away and plenty of reasons to temper expectations, but I think plenty of reasons for optimism sitting here in England.
- [34:15]
B
Shirt not being carried away at all. Are you wearing that all day at night?
- [34:19]
C
I literally put it on to come in the studio and I'm taking it off as soon as I get out of the studio.
- [34:22]
D
That's rubbish.
- [34:23]
B
That's rubbish. That's not cool.
- [34:24]
C
I'm 35, like I said.
- [34:25]
B
I know. Right, We've talked about England's game tonight. Then also in action this evening, we've got Portugal against Uzbekistan. So the big question is, can Ronaldo get off the mark? We're going to find out, aren't we, Tim? I know this is one that you're looking forward to.
- [34:38]
E
Yes, I've. I've sort of followed Portugal for the Athletic for quite a few years, purely owing to the fact that I'm a Wolves fan and Wolves reporter and they had half the team back in the day. But anyway, I've sort of been following Uzbekistan for the last sort of year and I went out there in March and it's, you know, there's huge excitement. This is their first ever World Cup. It's a football mad country. But they're also, like Ronaldo, mad out in Uzbekistan. So, like, I was in. I was in this market in Tashkent and trying to find some football memorabilia and they had some key ring keyrings.
- [35:10]
B
Right.
- [35:10]
E
And the Only key rings they had were Man City because of Kusanov, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Ronaldo. And then I started speaking to some people about the group that they've got, and genuinely, quite a few people said that people will be torn on who to support in this match, because the obsession with Ronaldo is that. Is that great. And I'm sure this is the case in a lot, in a lot of countries. And then at one point, I was walking down this quiet street in Tashkent, mind my own business, and this mother with a. With her young son were walking towards me. And suddenly the kids, no more than five years old, starts, like, running towards me. I'm like, what's going on here? Anyway? And then. And then he just sort of flips around and does the Ronaldo celebration. I was like, what the hell? Like. So, yeah, it's going to be a really strange experience for a lot of Uzbekistan fans tonight as to who to support.
- [35:54]
B
Believe it or not, imagine in previous World Cups and they've supported Portugal.
- [35:58]
E
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. He's hero worshiped over there.
- [36:01]
B
Later on, of course, we have got Colombia against Dr. Congo as well, also in Portugal's group. And Croatia take on Panama, which is where we find our star of soccer for today. It is Como's Martin Batarina, who, I mean, watching England, you remember he scored a screamer for Croatia in that defeat to England last week. That was sort of their. Their big moment of the game, really. Tim, what can you tell us about him? Because he is, it sounds like, leading Croatia's next gen. Yeah, they've been waiting
- [36:29]
E
for him to come through for a little while. He was expected to. To do that at the Euros, but didn't end up playing there. But, yeah, like Modric, he came through at Dinamo Zagreb and is kind of, you know, expected to follow in his footsteps, really. And he's. He's sort of a gifted, roaming playmaker who. They've just struggled to find a place in the team. I think we're all expecting, you know, they're old, their old generation to retire after the last Euros, but they're all still around. I'm going to hit you with some longevity numbers. So Modric, who's going to win his 200th cap if he plays against Panama tonight, Him, Kovacic, Perisic and Krameric. Between the four of them, they've got 585 catalysts.
- [37:13]
B
Wow.
- [37:13]
E
It's just ridiculous. So, yeah. But as for Batarina, his move to Como, I think a year ago has sort of really paid off. And boosted his career. He had a great season there, sort of playing in a variety of different roles and Deces Fabregas and sort of really blossomed and finally, you know, forced his way into the Croatia team. So when Modric, if Modric retires, the baton will be. Will be passed to him. But it's nice to see them finally in the same team now, given that
- [37:41]
B
Croatia obviously pegged England back a couple of times in what was a competitive game, you know, especially that first half last week. Are you confident that Croatia will make it out the group?
- [37:52]
C
Yeah, I think so. I think it's difficult to tell what level Croatia are exactly at. They had a very strong qualifying campaign. I think they were unbeaten. We talk about the age a lot. Tim's laid it out there. I was actually looking at it last night. They were nowhere near the oldest, starting 11 in the first round of games, which surprised me because that age thing is kind of concentrated in some very high profile, big name players. But they also have this younger generation coming through which Bathurina is a part of. But yeah, you look at 40 year old Luka Modric last week off before the hour mark in a game that was becoming really physical and just how his influence, his importance, it's hard not to feel that obviously something is coming to an end there, but this is what Croatia do. The positive case for them is that this is a country of, I think it's 3.8 million people who consistently punch above their weight year in, year out for the last 30 years that they've been an independent nation at major international tournaments. They've got a far better record than England have almost 30 years at major international tournaments, by the way, as we all know full well. So I don't think reaching the knockouts will be an issue, but I think what happens beyond that will tell us a lot about this next wave of Croatian talent coming through.
- [38:57]
B
Right, well, that is all we've got time for today, but enjoy watching England wherever you're doing that. Do we have any big plans?
- [39:04]
C
No.
- [39:04]
B
Well, last week you were picking up golf clubs.
- [39:06]
C
Yeah, I have actually cleared my schedule for this one.
- [39:09]
B
Well done.
- [39:09]
C
Yeah, professional.
- [39:11]
B
Tim, anything exciting going on?
- [39:13]
E
I'm working on the Portugal Uzbekistan game, which is the big game of the tournament for me. England is sort of a sideshow after that, but I'll hang around and watch it.
- [39:20]
B
Gents, thanks for your company today. It's been great. Thanks as well to David and Matt for coming on earlier. A reminder for you that the athletics coverage throughout the World cup is completely free over on our app, so do not miss out. You can watch or listen to us wherever you get your PODC podcasts and do subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. Me and the team will catch you tomorrow. See you then.