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- [02:18]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:26]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleri. Chelsea wanted to get the majority of their transfer business done by the end of June and let me tell you, they've definitely been busy.
- [02:35]
David Ornstein
Well, Chelsea have agreed a deal with Borussia Dortmund to sign Jamie Gittins.
- [02:41]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Coming up, we'll break down the signing so far and also find out who else could arrive at Stamford Bridge before the window closes. Right, joining me for this one, our football correspondent David Ornstein and Chelsea writer Simon Johnson as well. David, let's launch in with the headline news so far. In the last week, Chelsea have reached agreements for both Joao Pedro from Brighton and also Jamie Gittens from Borussio Dortmund.
- [03:09]
David Ornstein
They've been pretty decisive proactive in the market so far. Liam de Lapp quickly out of the blocks with his release clause and that filled a number nine requirement but they weren't done there and it was straight on to the Gitin situation which they explored pretty aggressively prior to to that first mini transfer window closing ahead of the Club World Cup. They didn't manage to get the agreement on that occasion, but the conversations continued and when the main transfer window opened they eventually managed to get the agreement with Borussia Dortmund. The player was already sorted on a seven year contract and I think the medical was done in the States and so that would just be a matter of time until they put it into confirmation. He can't play for them at the Club World cup because he's already played for Dortmund. So there's no real rush on that one. We're into the new financial year. Some people sort of suggesting with multiple clubs that they've been waiting to announce and register deals once July kicks in. So it moves into the new financial accounting period. I don't know if that's the case with Chelsea. I think it's more just that they're, they're getting these done as and when possible and they're moving much quicker than many clubs getting stunned and dusted as far as we know. And then of course the Jao Pedro won. A story broken on the Athletic that they had reached an agreement with, with Brighton and I think it's a, we were initially told a deal worth in excess of 50 million pounds. It seems that it's a package that might touch upon £60 million, which is what Brighton were always looking for. Seven year contract. He flew I think from Brazil to the USA to join the Chelsea camp to do his medical and he should, I think pending registration, be available for their next match at the Club World cup or perhaps subsequently. But yeah, that one is being announced sort of imminently or it's already happened, listeners. So Chelsea with. With three attackers through the door already. They're always looking at the market for more opportunities as well, but. But I guess that could depend on possible departures. So we can't get ahead of ourselves on that because they want to balance things up. They want to have multiple options for all the positions in an area where they. We knew that they were focused for this summer. It's not a great surprise. And let's see what happens with a, say a Madwe or a Christopher and Kunku or Nicholas Jackson, etc. To see how it will finally shape up once that window closes at the end of August. And no doubt they'll look to address other areas as well. But yeah, it's safe to say it's been a busy market so far at Stamford Bridge.
- [05:30]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, I'm going to press you on some of those outgoings, probably a little later on, David, but. But Simon, should Chelsea fans be excited about this one? Joao Pedro, Jamie Gittins, come on, more attackers.
- [05:39]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Well, first and foremost he's a Brighton player, you know, so of course Chelsea fans, you know, this is. This is almost like an annual event, isn't it? But look, if you actually look at the business Chelsea done with Brighton, if we, if we ignore Graham Potter and so on and so forth, it's actually not worked out too badly, particularly the two big ones. Moises Casado is now by and large regarded as one of the best midfielders not just in the Premier League, but in the game. Mark Cucarella after difficult start is now, I think he was probably runner up in the. In the fans player of the Year vote behind Casado. So it's not worked out too badly. Robert Sanchez still divides opinion, of course, but he's still at 25 million. Yeah, I'm not his biggest fan, but it's not been a complete disaster. He's still been part of a team that's won a major trophy and got them qualified for the Champions League. So Joao Pedro is the exciting Chelsea fans. I think the feeling will probably be mixed. Let's see what he can do because this is a massive step up. Of course he's proven himself at Watford, he's shown a lot of promise at Brighton. He's got big ambitions to be a key part of Brazil's World cup squad and this is a big part of why he wants to join Chelsea. He sort of sees them as being able to take him up to the next level. I think he'll look with Nkunku clearly Chelsea and Denkunku looking to go their separate ways ideally this summer. He naturally sort of slots in as Nkunku's replacement in the squad. Chelsea wanted a versatile attacker, someone that can lead the line but also could perhaps sort of relieve Cole Palmer a little bit or perhaps even play out wide if need be. So in terms of what they were looking for, I think Chelsea are very excited that here's a player that can who settled in the Premier League in England and should be able to slot straight in and get started straight away.
- [07:29]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, let's hear what he might be bringing to Chelsea. Here's our data writer Mark Carey with a breakdown.
- [07:36]
Mark Carey
Hello Mark Carey here reflecting on Joao Pedro's move to Chelsea and quite honestly it's a move that I like. I think that some people would be maybe forgiven for thinking that Chelsea are just stockpiling players yet again, but somehow I think they managed to find a profile of player that they don't already have in the squad at the moment. And Xiao Pedro is not the profile of player who will always run the channels or look to run it behind. But that's okay because Chelsea already have that profile of player in the form of Nicholas Jackson and obviously now Liam delap. But I think Jackson's link up play was actually one of his better attributes last season. But I think Jao Pedro is especially strong in that area. He's always coming towards the ball from his center forward position, dragging opposition center backs with him and creating space for for other players to exploit, especially from wide. I think he's a good hybrid of a player who can score goals and for context he's averaged about 0.2 non penalty goals per 90 at Brighton. So about a goal every five games from a non penalty perspective. But he really has a creative spark to feed others. Overall I think it's a really interesting move. I don't think Joao Pedro will be the starting number nine every week, but I do think he provides a good option for when the situation allows it and I think crucially it will provide in the certain games greater control in working the ball into those attacking areas through the thirds without losing that structure that Maresca craves.
- [09:05]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Thanks for that Mark Simon. I mean was it 50 odd million? I mean that's a lot to spend on a player that might not be Starting for Chelsea in the Premier League.
- [09:14]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, but it's kind of almost become like the going rank now for a sort of. I hesitate to say the word squad player, but a good sort of all rounder, you know, certainly at Chelsea. But I think people shouldn't underestimate that. There's an awful lot of big gains for Chelsea next season. It's not going to be the Conference League where they can afford to essentially make 11 changes and still win games comfortably. They're now going to be under pressure with the Champions League where there's no game certainly early on in the group phase where they can switch off and they're going to have to rotate. But still not sort of look at a drop in quality. I think Joao Pedro will play a lot of games. I think there's no way that Chelsea is signing this guy to just warm the bench. He wouldn't join Chelsea for that. So I think you will get a fair number of matches. And Chelsea also can't have Cole Palmer playing every single game. He's already shown signs of fatigue in since the turn of the year, I think inevitably. So he's had a crazy 18 months. He's also. The weight of carrying Chelsea for those 18 months probably weighs heavily on him too. So I think, I think for him to sort of come in and perhaps be a more effective relief pitcher, as it were, than Joao Felix and Nkunku have been is also good. But then you look at the sort of front, the center forward position which I'm sure Joao Pedro wants to play. Dilap is shown a lot of promise since joining Chelsea, but is he going to sort of lead the line every single week? Perhaps he'll need to come in and out of the team. Jackson, there's question marks over whether he'll still be at Chelsea come the September 1st deadline.
- [10:58]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah. David, why do you think Chelsea are getting the business done so early? I mean it's a lot and it's front loaded fundamentally. You know. Forgot to talk about Estavio as well. Baez as well. I mean there's some big players coming in in the door at Chelsea. I mean, are we starting to see an organization that's trying to forward plan, dare I say it?
- [11:17]
David Ornstein
Yeah, you can say that again. S. When is Quenda on the way? 20, 26.
- [11:21]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah. So 12 months time. That one's. Yeah, but this is also. Sorry, David's your question. But this is also part of their. Their thinking is getting these guys done. Big competition for them so that they're. They're in through the Door nice and early.
- [11:35]
David Ornstein
But over to you, David, who's coming in 2030? I'm not sure we'll be around at that point. They've probably got their replacements lined up for 2032 when these new signings expire. We've seen since the Boli Clearlake Capital takeover took place that a huge amount of trading has taken place. They're not afraid to spend money, to move players out, to bring players in. Whatever people say about it, they've managed to balance things, relatively speaking. They've also sought some creative measures to ensure their Premier League PSR compliance. They've had to do things slightly differently with UEFA and that will be an ongoing test. So. So let's see. But they're in okay shape, it would appear, on, on all of that for now. And whereas some clubs are maybe a little bit more restrained in the market, less is more approach that, that hasn't been the case with, with these guys. The one thing we do know that sort of testament to the recruitment is, is that there are many clubs looking at Chelsea players and if they were so bad, they wouldn't be. And, and you know, there are clubs that I speak to who, who say, look, Chelsea were mocked in, in certain quarters for the long contracts and, and you know, their attempts to bring the wage bill down and, and what appeared to be crazy recruitment, but, but then now looking at it and saying, actually we need to take a bit of a leaf out of their book in certain areas, you know, maybe not everything is, is going right at Chelsea and they're still look to finesse things at their own end, but sporting wise, they've progressed financially, they're trying to get things right and yet you might say, well, they can't sell the women's team or a hotel every single year and maybe those loopholes will eventually be shut in. The Premier League and UEFA have different restrictions, but say Chelsea did what they needed to do around that in those days and then it becomes a player trading thing going forward and it manages to be sustainable and eventually people start to say there's some method to the madness or perceived madness. So clearly, because it's still relatively new, it might not be seen as best in class in the way that say a Liverpool under Manchester City and some others on the continent are talked about. But they are certainly doing it in a way that I think many other clubs and their supporters would say, you know what, that, that's not too bad. We, we wouldn't mind taking a, a bit of a leaf out of that book.
- [13:53]
Host
Yeah.
- [13:54]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Simon Is there from your. Where you're sitting. And we. I will caveat this with. It still feels like a massive experiment. Does it feel like there's some sort of strategic thread here? Because you look at a player like Liam Delap, we saw what he did with Ipswich. There's something quite exciting about a player like that. And he's ceiling as well, so feels like he's ready to go up another level. Gittins, there's been a lot of conversations around what he's done at Dortmund as well. Even if Asugo from Sporting, successful season at Sporting. And then you've got SA who's coming from Strasbourg, who have had a really good season as well. Do we. Are we starting to see perhaps a little something here that goes. Actually we got some plug and play players here. Less of an experiment. Hopefully these players are able to hit the ground running.
- [14:35]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, I mean, look, Chelsea's plan is, is. Is. Is always been to sort of get a young group of players together so that they can grow together. And you can, if you're Liam Delap and you're being pitched to by the clubs, but you look at Chelsea and you go, okay, these guys all around my same age, I'm walking into a dressing room where there's no sort of, sort of 30 year old, absolute legend of the club that's sort of like the big guy. It's like actually there's an opportunity for me to walk in and be just part of everyone, all together sort of thing. And that Chelsea don't want this to be just a one hit, one season success. They want a sustained period of being able to challenge for trophies. Now, of course, that was always going to take time and I think, as David intimates, mistakes have been made, undoubtedly. And the Chelsea fan base, I think, have also had that struggle to adapt from what was one way of working under the previous ownership of Roman Abramovich, who tended to go sort of the tried and tested the finished article and of course they won trophies on a regular basis. And that also included sacking managers when it wasn't working and then going on to the next guy. Whereas Chelsea certainly sacked their managers since the change of ownership. But in terms of player wise, it's buying potential and hoping they kick on to the next level. And that touches on David's point about incentivized contracts as well, rather than putting these guys on ridiculous salaries. It's like if you don't qualify for Europe, which is what happened in 22, 23, there's a punishment and I quite like that. Actually, you know, some of these players had huge. I'm not sure the players did, but some of the players had sort of 40, 50% sort of wage cut because Chelsea weren't in Europe. But conversely, they're now in the Champions League. And so I think part of the celebrations were so wild. So these players are now back on big money. So I do think this is a plan. Look, we hesitate to sort of go too overboard because what, what is Chelsea's sort of main goal here? It's to win premier leagues and champions leagues. That's the, that's the standard that was set by Abramovich and Chelsea certainly aren't close yet to, you would say, to sort of winning a premier league. Maresk has been very keen to play that down. He did throughout last season and I'm sure he will again for the season coming up, you'd have to say Liverpool. You know, there is a significant gap to bridge to them, let alone the likes of Arsenal and Man City who've been competing at the top of the table for a while. But as I said to you guys after the Conference League final win, I think there is a growing belief within the group and we saw, I know we touched on the club World cup later, but I think we saw that again against Benfica in very trying circumstances the other night. And now Chelsea have got the numerical advantage. Pedro Neto this concealer into the quarterfinal now. No, that. I think that that group a few months ago would have lost that game. But I think there's that inner belief now that's growing again. Touching my point at the start that this group of young players are growing together and are getting better together.
- [17:52]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Okay, brilliant. Well, we've covered some of the done or nearly done deals. Up next we'll look at the business Chelsea may still want to do this summer.
- [18:03]
Mark Carey
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamulere.
- [18:10]
Host
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BETMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BETMGM yet, use bonus code theathletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer. On your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [18:46]
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See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 In Massachusetts, 1, 800, bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1, 800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.
- [19:10]
Host
Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BEDMGM yet, use bonus code theathletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.
- [19:23]
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- [20:00]
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- [20:29]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Foreign.
- [20:36]
Ayo Akimwaleri
This week's deal sheet on the Athletic. You flagged that Chelsea's Noni Madweki is of interest to Arsenal. What can you tell us about that deal? Because there's a lot of Gunners fans. I don't know how they're feeling about this one, but they're interested in what this outcome could possibly be.
- [20:51]
David Ornstein
Yeah, that was James McNicholas, I think, who detailed the Noni Madweki interest. He is one of the players that Arsenal are looking at, I think. Matt Law in the Telegraph originally broke the story some weeks ago because Arsenal have long been searching for some backup for Bukayo Saka stroke competition, you could say, or deputizing for him when he's injured. And they first looked at Brian and Burmo, they would have had other options too. That didn't work out. He's on course to join Manchester United and there's no agreement yet but we expect it to happen at some point or he'll stay at Brentford. And so yeah, Arsenal had to look at alternatives. Noli Madwicki is among them. I think a lot appeals to Arsenal about that profile because he can play on the other side too. He'll be known to many of the Arsenal players. He's London based. Chelsea, as we've discussed already, are always open to conversations about trading. They're not averse to them. You see some people just putting the not for sale sign up and blocking any type of communication. And that's not the case with Chelsea on pretty much any of their players, you could say. And therefore it's one that Arsenal are clearly doing some work on. Conversations more on the player side. I don't know anything club to club at this point. That can change very quickly but that's accurate at the time of reporting and we don't have any sort of agreements at this point. Noni Madwicki will have a say in it as well. If Arsenal do really come forward and say we want to make this happen. Does he want to make it happen? The Chelsea want to make it happen. But clearly that's a fluid conversation at the moment. And look, Arsenal are spinning multiple plates and working on the various positions. We know the number nine is the priority for them and then they've always wanted to strengthen on the left wing but they've got Gabriel Martinelli, a very fine player there already. If he was to leave then you could see them maybe bringing in a top left sided winger. If he's not to leave then I don't think so. You know, we've talked and reported on the likes of Rodrigo and Anthony Gordon. I think that's if a Martinelli leaves. I don't necessarily think that that's if. If he was to stay. Whereas you could look at somebody like Noni Madwerke who could come in and be that back up to Sakura on the right. He could be an the left potentially even if Gabriel Martinelli stayed. And then you've got sort of. They're looking at things inside the likes of E It's been well reported and Morgan Rogers and there are loads of names. James listed them in, in, in the deal sheet this week. So I, I'm not putting any order on them but we do know that E is high among them for that sort of 8, 10 role which is separate to the striker, the left, the right. So multiple possibilities here. And, and, and we've got to see, you know, we've talked about Chelsea and what they might do if and when players leave and that's why we're talking about Madweki, what my Arsenal do if players leave. But what if they stay? You know, it might look a different picture and we're not talking about so many movements. But yeah, back to your, back to your original point on, on Madwa. You know, Chelsea if, if he is to go will be looking for a sizable return. I don't know the exact fee. Some people have reported in excess of, of £45 million. I'd previously seen it was higher but you know, not, not an insignificant sum and certainly higher than, than they paid for him, you would imagine. So there's no guarantee but definitely Madweki is, is an active conversation.
- [24:08]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Okay. I can't say there've been many great success stories, Simon, for Chelsea players going to Arsenal, but I can understand the trepidation from Arsenal fans. But actually one I'm interested in is actually Kepa going to Arsenal from Chelsea. The world's most expensive goalkeeper going to Arsenal for such a morphee. How do you see this one in terms of are Arsenal getting a solid player?
- [24:32]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Oh, I think there's a backup for David Ray. I think this is a fine bit of business. Spain international, got a lot of experience, great at penalty shootouts. He actually leaves Chelsea with the best ever record from penalty shootouts. Of course most people remember him for penalty shootouts that went wrong. The Manchester City League Cup Final where he looked like he refused to go off, but you know, it's a bit more complicated than that. And then of course the penalty against Liverpool where I think the ball still hasn't been found actually still lost in, in London somewhere. But, but I think for Arsenal it's, it's, it's a fine bit of his £5 million. I mean he had a very good season on loan at Bournemouth last season. But what it does do is it, it puts Chelsea's goalkeeping situation back under the microscope because it kind of kepa's arrival in 2018 for that ridiculous sum of money. Chelsea have not found a title winning goalkeeper since he arrived. Since thibaut Courtois sort of maneuvered his way out of the club to join Real Madrid. Chelsea thought Kepel was the answer. He signed that long term deal for big, big money. And it just shows that mistakes haven't just been made under the new ownership, that the previous ownership also made some big howlers. And the Thibaut Courtois contract negotiations, which were fumbled in a polite way of putting it, has come back to bite the club and now there's a lot of scrutiny. Will Chelsea sign another goalkeeper this window? Of course they did look at Mike Manion, but were very sort of tough in the negotiation with AC Milan knowing that he had just one year left on his contract. They weren't willing to meet AC Milan's of asking price of up to 25 million. But there will be that question sort of labeled at the owners is like, okay, so in the hierarchy that you're willing to pay the fee for Joao Pedro and Jamie Gittins, but when it comes to the goalkeeping department, which is a very, very important position, Robert Sanchez is still number one. And I don't think anyone in the game looks at Robert Sanchez and thinks he's a title winning goalkeeper.
- [26:44]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Okay? Right, let's move on because coming up we'll discuss Chelsea and the Club World cup and also how that prize money is influencing their summer spend ending.
- [27:01]
Host
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen, fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic.
- [27:37]
BetMGM Announcer
See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. uS call 877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY 467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel.
- [28:01]
Host
Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code the Athletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a $51,500 first bet offer on your first wager.
- [28:15]
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- [28:57]
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- [29:07]
David Ornstein
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- [29:31]
David Ornstein
This is the Athletic FC podcast with.
- [29:33]
Mark Carey
IO Akamolera.
- [29:38]
David Ornstein
Great strength by Liam DeLap great footwork, great finish.
- [29:41]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Liam DeLap.
- [29:47]
David Ornstein
The new boys arrived at Chelsea.
- [29:50]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, with all the transfer business happening, let's not forget Chelsea are in the club World Cup. And actually Simon, what has been your view on how they've got on in that tournament? But but also I guess what we're looking for is how this team now plays with a few new additions. Any sign that this they're clicking together?
- [30:07]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, I mean Maresk has made a point of pretty much playing it's hard to say last season or still this season's team minus or plus Liam delap Da Lap's had an opportunity to really sort of make an impression because Nicholas Jackson getting sent off against Flamengo is giving him him even more of a run in the side than perhaps was planned in terms of starts anyway. And his start has been very encouraging. You can already see inevitably a bond between him and Cole Palmer which exists from their Manchester City Academy days. But also he's also built up an understanding quickly with Enzo Fernandez. Fernandez, I think Dilap actually said the other day after he scored his first goal for the club against El Chinez that he said, oh, Enzo Fernandez has told me when I get the ball, make a run. And clearly and Fernandez set him up for that goal. So there's clearly something building there. As for how Chelsea playing Flamengo aside, which was pretty poor display and Flamengo wanted it, not just wanted it more, but they were ready to take Chelsea on. And Chelsea did look a bit of a tired side. But conversely, as I sort of hinted at earlier on against Benfica, Chelsea were very impressive. Dominated that game. But for the break, for the threat of a thunderstorm, they would have won in normal time, I'm sure, but extra time, they put Benfica away in impressive fashion and they're playing like a team that truly wants to win this competition. And Maresca at the same time is trying things. It has been viewed as a competition, yes, they want to win, but also viewed as this is their main preseason, which also touches on why they wanted to sign these players early as possible, to try and get them into the group as quickly as possible, to have them out in America with them so they could start to bond with the group. You've got players that they've signed in advance, like Isugu is getting a chance to learn from the mastery. Moises Caicedo, you've got Andres Santos, a lot of concern about, oh, he's not getting loads of minutes. Could Chelsea be selling him already? It's like, no, he is part of the plans, but he's not going to come straight into a side that are trying to win a major competition. But he is learning what Maresca wants. So Maresca's trying things. He played Cole Palmer on the left against Benfica, which I think took a lot of people by surprise, but he actually ended up having a great understanding with Mark Cucurella. So you can see that so far the competition has been a positive, I think. But let's just see how they get on against Palmeiras, because Palmeiras will be wanting revenge for the club World cup defeat from 2022.
- [32:48]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, I can't wait to see Estavao in that one, because it's like his old club versus his new club that he's.
- [32:54]
David Ornstein
What are you going to do?
- [32:56]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Go up with a mate? Anyway, David, very quickly, before we move on, I'm wondering what this means for. For player welfare, because, you know, I can't help but think about Jurgen Klopp's recent comments on the Club World Cup. You know, saying it's the worst idea ever implemented in football. Some might agree with that, some might not. Certain clubs, like Monterrey, for instance, might look at their bank balance and think, yes, actually, this has been great. But for European clubs, in terms of player welfare and actually extended Playing football going into a new season. How, how do you find that balance with something like this? Because financially it, it's not, there's no question there. But actually are these players going to be ready and fresh to go into a brand new season?
- [33:33]
David Ornstein
I might just touch financially on a point that I should have mentioned earlier. When we're talking about Chelsea recruitment, it's really boosted the club significantly obviously and it's allowed the likes of Chelsea to turn around and say like mid tournament we're going to go and get some deals done here to try and help us for the latter stages and beyond of course into next season in the future. And they've suddenly, you know, very quickly pounced upon the Gittins deal. They had one bite at the cherry, it didn't work out. They came again when they could have ordinarily just done that later in the summer, but they had the financial resources even though they can't use him in this tournament, but to just get a deal done and then on Joao Pedro to get a deal done, get him over to the States, had the finances to do it with the help of this tournament and, and he may play an influential role and, and let's see if I don't know, are Al Hilal gonna turn around before the registration deadline for the next game boosted by their progress and, and go make a signing of their own to, to propel their own chances of, of going even further perhaps towards glory and, and everything that comes with that financially and reputationally. So those are two really key factors. The finance, the reputation, the profile that this brings and of course that plays into team's commitment to this sort of competition. And, and maybe it's more the profile side is more for the global teams and less for the European teams. But not entirely because US is a market that still has scope to be conquered from a football soccer perspective. And the World cup coming next year, the opportunity to grow REV revenues even further. And that's partly why we're seeing so much US investment into the Premier League. But I definitely think financially is, is an even greater motivation for those U.S. european teams for reasons such as what I laid out on recruitment, but also just day to day running and PSR and financial fair play compliance. But then comes the welfare issue. It's not for me to tell Jurgen Klopp what to say and people lecturing one of the greatest managers of the modern era. These managers know what goes in on a daily, hourly, minutely basis to constructing a squad and maintaining it and the physical preparation and the to it takes and, and clearly it's not ideal from, from a fitness perspective and the fixture congestion. We've been talking about it for so long about easing the schedule and we go and add things in and it's becoming not a 9 month sport but almost like a 12 month sport now. And bad things will possibly happen because you know we've seen an increase in like the ACL injuries and, and various soft tissue. The, the rise in hamstring strains and tears last season seemed alarming. I don't have the data in front of me but this is the human impact of it all. You'd like to think with, with that and, and the increased money involved that comes greater physical rehabilitation work and preparation work. Some understanding that breaks might need to be taken earlier in the season which is not completely unheard of because there have been major tournaments, Euros, World Cups and I remember Rodri and Phil Foden being rested by Manchester City in the early parts of the season after their major tournament commitments. And look, there's a balance for all of this. There's a load of good things things in relation to the club World Cup. There are some pretty concerning things. You know, there's some outspoken comments from like a Klopp. There are perspectives coming from other parts of the world that the polar opposite of what he's saying. And so you know, you know I sit on the fence on pretty much everything so I'm not going to do much different on this, this occasion. It is worrying. It struggled to gain engagement in sections of public certainly in Britain. I felt where a lot of people have not been taking any, not of it because of time difference, because of saturation. They're exhausted from the season. People like me are busy with transfers, let alone like every minute of what's going on out there. But on the flip side you're seeing fan bases who are placing so much importance on this clubs and the physical toll for say European clubs might not be as, as great as it is for some of the the world clubs. And my final point on it is maybe we don't see for, for some time the repercussions. You know, maybe it gives players some good continuity postseason and instead of sitting back and having a beer and eating badly on, on their summer vacations that they're actually keeping things ticking over. Some sides, Manchester City, you saw them having sort of beach activities and things in a way that they wouldn't if they were maybe playing in the Champions League. And perhaps they hit the ground running better next season. But then what happens further down the Line with some of the soft tissue and wear and tear problems that could be incurred. It's not going to be happening every year. So this is almost a bit of a test, a trial, and we'll see how it develops. But yeah, I don't think the extreme views on how disastrous some people think it is, nor the absolutely unmitigated success that others may have expressed is probably, as with all these things, somewhere in the middle.
- [38:32]
Ayo Akimwaleri
All right, very quickly, Simon, before we go, we need to talk about Esteval Willian. I know we just joked about it earlier, but I mean, this feels like a player Chelsea fans should be excited about. You know, I just looked at some of his stats, like last season, 11 goals season before, 15 goals, 26 career goals so far at of 18 for Palmeiras, who were a top, top team in Brazil. And he's had a lot of experience in the domestic cups as well. Should Chelsea fans be really excited about the prospect of this lad landing in the Premier League and setting it alight?
- [38:59]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
For sure, but with the caveat that he is only 18 and moving to another country for the first time. A new, a new sort of style of football. Of course we know how tough the Premier League can be, but in Brazil, he's being talked about as the next Neymar. I think Chelsea sort of see him in the bracket and not too much pressure, pressure here, but sort of in that pressure of being obviously not yet, but sort of like in that category in terms of best young players up there with Jamal even he's sort of seen in that kind of potential. Look, he's a young kid who's already done wonders. Let's see how he adapts. But the interesting thing is he can play against Chelsea. This was an agreement made between the two clubs that he would be able to participate for Palmeiras in the tournament and then join Chelsea afterwards. So even though they're on a collision course, Chelsea weren't going to sort of suddenly go, oh, can, can he be rested? And look, I'm sure he'll want to make a good impression, but as he said the other day, like he, he's. He's already feeling the, the, the nerves of, and the anticipation of making this big move to Chelsea. And, and I think that Chelsea would be careful with him because they do have options. And sort of touching on the question from before, this is why clubs like Chelsea want big squads, you know, to deal with this intense schedule that, including the club World cup, but beyond. So player like Esteban could come in and then, then someone else can come in and be rotated. I'm sure Chelsea will be steady with him to begin with, but there's no doubt about it, this kid's exciting. That's why perhaps the future sort of going back to Noni Medweki is is less certain was before because they see the future as a club with more Esteval William because they feel that he can take the club onto the level they want to get to, which is, like I said, premier leagues and champions leagues.
- [40:52]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Gents, let's end it there. Simon, David, really appreciate your time and also Mark for dropping in his voice note earlier. Thank you guys for listening as well. We'll be back with Simon on Friday with the latest installment of our summer series, the Transfers that Shook the World with our focus this week on Ashley Cole.
- [41:09]
Athletic FC Podcast Network
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [41:18]
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