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- [00:00]
Marc Maron
Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose progressives name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget. So you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it@progressive.com and now some legal info. But Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states.
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Kristen Bell
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- [00:35]
Marc Maron
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Kristen Bell
Dax.
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Dax Shepard
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Marc Maron
Seven day money back guarantee.
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Kristen Bell
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Marc Maron
A week of terrain tests? Yeah, I can test the brake pad resistance at variable speeds.
- [00:52]
Kristen Bell
Make sure all the kids stuff fits nicely.
- [00:54]
Adam Leventhal
Make sure our stuff fits nicely. Oh the right.
- [00:58]
Marc Maron
Still need to buy the car. Getting ahead of ourselves here.
- [01:01]
Kristen Bell
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- [01:04]
Dax Shepard
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- [01:38]
Adam Leventhal
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:44]
David Ornstein
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast. I'm Adam Leventhal. The transfer window is open and Liverpool are after one of European football's brightest talents, Vets Florian.
- [01:55]
Adam Leventhal
Vets.
- [01:55]
David Ornstein
Pass 1. Pass 2.
- [01:57]
Kristen Bell
Ver.
- [01:59]
David Ornstein
This man is a sensation. And it's not just the champions who are active. Manchester City are making moves of their own. Reinders is on his way. Who will be next? Joining me today we have the Athletics football correspondent David Ornstein, the Athletic FC newsletter writer Phil Hay, and our Liverpool correspondent James Pearce as well. So David, we've got the first of two summer transfer windows. They are now open. We've got loads to discuss on the show including Manchester City a little bit later on. On Tuesday, the first deal sheet dropped on the Athletic, which is packed with transfer information on the ongoing deals. And this week's one to watch from yourself is Liverpool's pursuit of Bayer Leverkusen and Germany's Florin Wirtz. Where are we with this move then?
- [02:57]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. Hi Adam. Great to be back on. Well that is the most high profile deal in the market I would say and it's happening early so it's caused a huge amount of excitement. It did seem very likely that Wirtz would be moving this summer. Initially there was an expectation he would go to Bayern Munich. Then Manchester City showed their hand. They came and went because it emerged very soon after. And we reported it on the Athletic that Wirtz had decided to join Liverpool and then the big question was whether they could reach an agreement with Bayer Leverkusen. We then revealed last Friday that Liverpool had submitted an offer worth up to 130 million euros which would be a club record. Bay Leverkusen want a higher figure. And so if and when Liverpool do edge up it could well be a British record transfer fee. Should this get over the line. Where things are now is that this is progressing in the right direction. The talks are ongoing. I think they're now onto the stage of potential add ons. The makeup of the deal, the bonuses and how they would be achieved. So it's clearly at an advanced stage but from what I hear it's not quite at the finish line yet. There is more work to be done but for Liverpool and their supporters there's reason to be optimistic. I do think they are going to get this deal done and not only because they're pushing so hard in the club to club negotiations but also the desire of the player. He has eyes only on Liverpool and it looks like it will be a box office signing for them, for the Premier League and for the whole market and football full stop. We said in the deal sheet we saw this week as being quite pivotal in the situation and that's because I think all parties would want a resolution. We don't know the exact timings. You're always at risk when you put definitive days on these sort of things. But I do feel that we're getting towards a conclusion and every indication is that Florian Wirtz is going to become a Liverpool player.
- [05:08]
David Ornstein
Where does he fit in? James?
- [05:10]
Phil Hay
It's going to be fascinating to see where Arne Slot, you know, thinks he's best utilized. I think similar to the frimpong one in terms of you know, a player who's, who's versatile. I think that's another asset that really appeals to Liverpool with, with Wirtz. We've, we've seen him play out wide previously, haven't we? Predominantly this season as a, as a 10 or as a false 9 and I, I think prob most likely as a 10 which we're going to see the evolution of Arne Slot's team I think going into next season. Because you know again that was. That was an area where you know Dominik Zbozlai was mainly used there. Curtis Jones a little bit. But I thought it was interesting. Back end of the season Arna Slot talking about wanting to add new weapons to his Liverpool team and I don't. It gets much more exciting than if they can get this one over the line for Wirtz because you know he's the gem of German football, isn't he? 22 I think as well. Although it's a huge investment from Liverpool. I think he's already achieved so much in the game yet you feel that he's got potential to go even further. And because he is still so young, such an incredible talent, you know I think that is why this deal has got the fan base so energized.
- [06:25]
David Ornstein
It's a chunky fee, isn't it Phil? And that shows ambition.
- [06:29]
James Pearce
I think actually it more tells a story of how well Liverpool have played the last 12 months. The people behind Fenway Sports Group, the Liverpool owner do have a reputation for being frugal and it's not entirely unfair. But I feel quite often like they get a bad rap. It's not that they don't spend, they just don't spend to ridiculous success. I read James's coverage of the club and he makes the point a lot that FSG consistently say that any money that Liverpool generate will be reinvested into the club. And in actual fact I don't think anything is really changing there this summer. James might disagree and he can contradict me if he. If he thinks I'm wrong here. But the benefit from enhanced Champions League earnings from the season just gone. And also the new kit deal that they've got with Adidas. But they're definitely also benefiting from what happened a year ago. It seems to me that the last summer transfer window is a really rare example where standing still actually meant moving forward. You know the club's net spend was £100,000 if I recall correctly. Which is basically the same as zero in Premier League league terms. Premier League clubs just don't get out of bed for that sort of money. And it was a gamble but it paid off in two ways. It paid off firstly because Arnes Slot was able to use the continuity in the squad to win the Premier League title. But secondly the lack of spending last summer means they're now able to consolidate in an already strong position in a really aggressive manner. So Virtus valuation is high for sure and Leverkusen do hold a lot of cards here to a point. They can name the price, but Liverpool quite cleverly have put themselves in a position to try and hit it. And I kind of feel like if Slot ended up with Wirtz and Frimpong as his only signings this summer, he wouldn't be crying himself to sleep.
- [08:07]
David Ornstein
I'm going to probably date myself here, James. But it reminds me of Hannibal who used to be in the A team and he always used to say, I love it when a plan comes together. That's basically what this is like. You know, don't spend last year back your new manager to get it right with the existing squad and then there you go, bingo, you can spend what you want this summer.
- [08:26]
Phil Hay
Yeah, there's no doubt that that has given them a lot more flexibility and license to commit to a deal as big as the Wirts won because they were kind of circumspect a year ago and as Phil said, spot on. I think that approach has been completely vindicated. When you think of all the noise that kind of followed, especially on for missing out on Zubamendi when he opted to stay at Real Sociedad. There was this belief that how can they possibly do anything if they don't invest heavily and a holding midfielder yet Slot found the answer from within with Ryan Gravenberg and they go and absolutely run away with the Premier League. So that accompanied with the fact that, you know, as Phil said, you know, the Champions League win for obviously the riches that come with winning the Premier League, the new kit deal with Adidas kicking in, you know, and then. And then you've got, you know, a very lucrative preseason tour of the Far east coming up in July. You know, all these things help, you know, Liverpool go back to the season before the one just gone. They lost £57 million in the accounts. So it probably wasn't a big shock that then they had a relatively quiet summer. But of course now financially they're in a much stronger position. And I think FSG have always shown that when they believe the time is right, they will spend. It's just they won't just throw it around just for the sake of it or just to appease that outside noise. They're very good in terms of. Especially I think Michael Edwards and Richard Hughes in terms of. No, we stick to the plan and we do what's right. And this was always going to be a big summer for Liverpool. I think there was. I think there was always going to be some significant changes and it started really, really positively when you think to have already got Frimpong over the line and to be in a position now where arguably the best young talent in German football has effectively said no to Bayern Munich and said I want to move to Liverpool. You know, I thought it was fascinating that he took to Instagram last night to knock down some stories in Germany that he was demanding the number 10 shirt that already obviously belongs to Alexis McAllister. Again, you know, he's obviously not doing anything to play down the fact that he wants, wants Liverpool but obviously, you know, he clearly cares about how it's portrayed and you know, he's certainly not arrogant enough to be demanding shirt numbers. So, so yeah, it's, it's, it shows I think that Liverpool are really, really serious about building on winning the Premier League and making sure this is the start of a, you know, a really successful dynasty under Arnaslan and David, from.
- [10:56]
David Ornstein
Your point of view, what's to come now for Liverpool and included within that those that might need to head out because of incomings in the short term.
- [11:05]
Adam Leventhal
We need to keep an eye on the left back position. With Milos Kirkes of Bournemouth the top of Liverpool's list. There's no agreement between the clubs yet. The player is very keen to join Liverpool. Liverpool know pretty much what they need to do from a financial perspective that can be done pretty quickly as and when Liverpool come to the point in terms of the price that Bournemouth want, which is said to be sort of 40, 45 million pounds. So watch this space on that one. And then also in Attack, the future of Darwin Nunes has been well documented. There's an opportunity for him to leave. I think the expectation is that he will be sold and therefore we could see somebody come in in that position. I think Liverpool are among those understandably that have liked Alexander Isaac. There' admiration for somebody like Hugo Ekatike and decisions will have to be made and I'm sure that's something Liverpool are thinking about and we'll have multiple options, no doubt if and when that situation develops elsewhere in the side. Of course they, they were in the mix for Dean Hoisen, the Bournemouth center back who went to Real Madrid. So I'm quite fascinated to see if somebody else will be targeted by Liverpool or whether that was more a market opportunity for that particular player because of course they've renewed Virgil van Dijk and, and got Ibrahima Konate there. But he, he's approaching the final 12 months of his contract with no news on a Renewal so you know, that's something that Liverpool have to tackle one way or the other. We got Marmodashvili coming in from Valencia with Kelleher going out to Bournemouth. So that's the goalkeeping department seeing some activity too. Luis Diaz still no new for him. His deal has two years left to run. There's interest from Barcelona. We've heard a lot about that from the Saudi pro league. And you know it's plausible that something outward does develop with Luis Diaz but I'm not aware of that happening just yet. And then there will be some sort of younger players. Liverpool's academy has produced so well and, and we've seen time and again how they seem to extract really impressive profits from selling young players. And you know one player to definitely be aware of is Harvey Elliott because there are a lot of clubs looking at him. He was mentioned in some reports in relation to the Wirtz deal with Bayer Leverkusen. I'm told that he's not expected to, to go to Bayer but there, there will be plenty of clubs looking at him but they've got to get to the right sort of price point with Liverpool and if they do a departure could well happen. We saw he was very emotional on the pitch after the final game against Crystal palace but at the time of recording I'm not anything being close on that front. So there are loads of potential scenarios and sort of moving parts at Liverpool, both incoming and outgoing.
- [13:59]
David Ornstein
And James, just a final word from, from you before you head off a lot of movement in comparison with, with last season. I suppose it will just be down to Arne Slot to deal with that potential disruption and, and tailoring of this, of this new squad.
- [14:15]
Phil Hay
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think he talked about it in one of the press conferences at the back end of the season where he said, you know, that the reality is that he doesn't rotate much, that he likes to keep a settled team. We saw that throughout the season, you know, where you know some of those players that David has just named there, Harvey Elliott being a perfect example, you know, had very little Premier League action. Someone like Quansa as well, Endo is another one and he said, you know, it's one thing as a player accepting that for one season and of course it's softened when you're part of a title winning squad. But he said it's a big ask, he knows to accept it for a second season. So yeah, I think there's so many moving parts at the moment for Liverpool and you know, if, if as expected they get the Wirtz deal over the line and, and if Kirk has comes as well, I, I think we'll see a sizable chunk of that outlay recouped from sales. You know, they've already banked what is it up to? 26 and a half million from Alexander Arnold and Keller going and a lot or hinge on what kind of offers are forthcoming because someone like Harvey Elliot, I think he's probably a 40 to 50 million pound player, so he's only 22, has already achieved so much. So immediately there's only a certain number of clubs who could potentially go to that kind of level. Same with Quanza. Liverpool don't want to sell Quanza, but of course there would be a level at which they would do and there'll be a premium on him because there's a dearth of really talented young English center backs. And then, you know, I think Darwin Nunes is probably the most kind of nailed on to leave because that just, just hasn't worked out. And I think a parting of the ways looks like the best option for all parties. Liverpool turned down interest from the Saudi pro league in January, but you know, they, they certainly wouldn't turn it down again if the right kind of offer was, was on the table. And then as David said as well with Diaz is a fascinating one where I think this summer you either have to renew his contract or you offload him. So that there's a lot of decisions that will be keeping Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards very busy.
- [16:19]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it's going to be a different but also exciting summer at Liverpool. James, thank you very much for coming on the show. We've got much more to come from David and Phil. Just a quick reminder that we actually want to hear from you. There's a link in the podcast description and we want your feedback on this show. What content have you enjoyed the most and what would you like to see us do differently for next season? Get involved. You can help shape the future of the Athletic FC podcast. Next on this episode, in the shorter term, having checked in on the champions, we'll look at how Pep Guardiola's Manchester City look to respond with some of their own early moves.
- [17:00]
Adam Leventhal
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.
- [17:06]
James Pearce
When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms. Transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow, moving business forever forward.
- [17:21]
Marc Maron
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever Think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash. Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [17:41]
Dax Shepard
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- [18:18]
Phil Hay
Rafael Liao has made the run for him and this is a chance here.
- [18:21]
David Ornstein
Pushed out by some riders. Now it is a really busy time already in the transfer market and on Wednesday morning David, you confirmed that Manchester City have reached a 55 million euro agreement with AC Milan for their Dutch midfielder Tiani Reinders. Just give us a little bit more detail if you don't mind.
- [18:41]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. Manchester City finally reached an agreement with AC Milan for a player they've been pursuing since before the market opened. Clearly identified him as a top target to bolster in midfield. To Johnny Reinders the fee is believed to be 55 million euros fixed plus potential add ons and bonuses that could take it a little bit higher. He is set to sign a five year contract subject to medical and at the age of I think 26 that's assigning to go into the first team immediately. City started their rebuild in January with some younger players. That's now going to be sort of jet propelled by the looks of it. With City working on deals also for Rian Turkey and Ryan Ait Nouri. But this is a Netherlands international who I hear extremely good things about in terms of the player and also the character. It was probably his time to leave despite not long ago signing a new contract at AC Milan. Given that they missed out on Champions League football and the calibre of player he is, he should be playing at that level. Their financial situation dictated that a deal of this magnitude had to be considered and ultimately it seems a win for all parties.
- [19:55]
David Ornstein
Yeah, we'll get a bit more on Tcherki Ait Nouri as well that you mentioned there as well. But Phil David mentioned it there. You know this rebuild started in January. They spent 180 million pounds and those signings were seen for the future. This is very Much a key summer for Pep Guardiola to build this new side. How much expectation will there be on this City side to deliver straight away?
- [20:20]
James Pearce
Do you think it's going to be a challenge for them to get them to do that? It seems to me that the tactical work over the weeks before the season starts and over the summer is going to have to be mega. I mean, to give City their due. They haven't stuck their heads in the sand about what's going on with the squad. They haven't just written it off as a, a, as a kind of blip or a bad season. They've been pretty ruthless with players like Kyle Walker and Kevin de Bruyne. I think Guardiola seems to realize, and the club seems to realize that he's having to reframe City again. I mean, what are we on to now? It's like City 4.0 this coming up, isn't it? And he has got a lot of work to do to get them back on on the straight and narrow. This is a good start. I think it'll be a decent signing for them and it's coming quickly, which is probably a good thing for City because they are going to be wrapped up in the Club World cup for quite a long time over in the States. An awful lot of games out there and okay, club's very good at managing that alongside transfer business. It's not as if they can't do both. But you know Guardiola is going to be distracted by that tournament to, to a certain degree. The thing that's really interesting me about this window is the number of deals that are being done at the very outset of it. I mean the window is barely open and obviously FIFA have created this, this new initial window to cover the Club World cup but we've had hoisting to Real Madrid, Cunha to, to to Manchester United, Frimpong potentially verts to Liverpool. Chelsea are doing Liam de Lap. You got renders to City and Arsenal from. From what I read, the David's coverage are in a good position with Zubamende from. From Real Sociedad. Are you finding this window unusual, David? The speed at which it's moving because the clubs who are selling don't seem to be holding off and getting deals done and reaching the point of agreement. It almost feels as if it's as advantageous to them to get deals over the line as it is to the buying clubs.
- [22:03]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, well, it's at this time of the year that I normally get a little lull and Respite, the season ends and the market doesn't quite start. I can go on holiday, relax and maybe there'll be a story or two. I went on holiday last week and I spent the entire time working on transfer stories.
- [22:21]
James Pearce
You're basically on a slot, aren't you?
- [22:23]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, it's relentless and yeah, I just don't sort of fly from private jet into meat players and break for my holiday, then go back to it. But yeah, it's, you know, it's a repercussion of, of the Club World cup. Clearly. It's also an ever increasing desperation to improve, to act swiftly, decisively, get your house in order as soon as possible. You know, clubs are seeing that as the market goes on and the later you leave things with the aim of maybe cutting a better deal, you end up either paying the same or more. You know, the, the other party sees that you're, you're getting desperate and it also disrupts your, your plans on the pitch. You know, you need a pre season, you need to really prepare properly and the, the damage it can do from a physical. But also in terms of your. An aspirational point of view by getting your players on board late is becoming all the more acute. You lose points early in the campaign and, and you might not come back from it. And also like we're moving thankfully further and further away from the COVID e. Such a strong impact on, on clubs and their finances and they're in better shape now. You know, the influx of funds from the Club World cup from, from television deals, especially in the Premier League is thankfully fueling the market and you'd like to think and hope that that sort of seeps down. So, you know, tons of activity at this point across the board. Some of the. It is not coming to fruition just yet. Lots of conversations going on, some deals getting over the line and it sets up from my perspective and the feeling I'm getting from within the market so far to potentially be the sort of wildest transfer window for a long time.
- [24:20]
David Ornstein
So it's already disrupted your, your holiday, David, and we've alluded to the fact that it is. This market has disrupted Arne Slot's holiday as well in the context of Ryan Shirky who Manchester City are also now exploring a deal to sign. So just explain that situation for us.
- [24:40]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, so Ryan Shirky is a player that has been linked with a move to the likes of Liverpool, Manchester United, now Manchester City and many other clubs. Despite the fact he's only 21 years old. I feel we been Noticing and talking about him for much longer and we've seen the quality at Lyon and in the French sort of ranks and you know, Lyona in a position where there's only a year left on his contract. Finances are not in the best shape there. There were reports of a release clause at 25 million euros. That's not true to my knowledge. Perhaps there was some understanding that he could go for that sort of amount, but. But that doesn't ring true in terms of what's actually happening now because Leon are demanding a negotiation and want sort of double that price or, or certainly far higher. So Manchester City have made the most concerted efforts to sign him and I think they're on course to get it done. They're in a good place on it, they're progressing and in the coming days I'm sure we'll hear a lot more on that if they manage to get it over the line. It's not agreed so far, so there is still work to do. But everybody I've spoken to around it has expressed optim. It was however, really interesting to uncover that last week Arne Slot flew from his holiday to the south of France and he and he met with Rian Turkey. And we need to explain here that it's all part of a due diligence process that most clubs go through and fewer better at this sort of thing than Liverpool. Exploring multiple possibilities, spinning various plates, covering all bases in case of any eventuality. And so as we understand it, the meeting with Shirky was scheduled prior to the Florian Virtz deal accelerating and Liverpool felt compelled, duty bound, to honor that commitment and go through with the meeting. And you'd say, rightly so, that's quite normal in the football transfer market because you never know what's going to happen with your deals until the ink is dry on the paper. Vits is their top target. He has been for a while and as we've discussed, they're progressing towards a conclusion. But in the absence of a conclusion, you do take these meetings and conversations and that's what Liverpool did. They would have gained an understanding of the player, the finances involved, crucially, which are not as low as some people have made out. And they get that body of evidence together. If nothing else, it provides you with, with relationships, contact, building, market intelligence, which is absolutely crucial. And Arneslop went back to his holiday and Liverpool have cracked on with the vert's pursuit. So it's really interesting. Yeah, he's on course for Manchester City, but at the time of recording it's not quite a done deal yet.
- [27:31]
James Pearce
David, you were talking there with Shaki about Liverpool among other things, in meeting him, establishing the likely cost of the deal deal and everything else. I find it hard to believe that City wouldn't have known or had a firm inkling about Vertz's value or the likely cost of signing them before they got involved. The club, like City, does so much due diligence on a transfer like that. So given that they pulled out and I'm pretty sure the reporting stated that they saw it as too expensive, did they misjudge how pricey Verts was going to be or were they not that bothered? Or is it possible that they're saving face on the basis that he wanted to go to Liverpool? What do you think?
- [28:12]
Adam Leventhal
There could be a bit of all of that involved and it's hard for us to know on these things Phil, because we're not in the room and we're relying on conversations we have with trusted sources and contact at every end of the situation. I do think there's an element of you don't find out exactly what the costs are until you are in the dialogue. And there is always to varying degrees a flow of information around potential transfer fees, release clause value with some players perception or fact on salary requirements, agents fees and associated costs. But you do learn a lot more when you actually pursue it further. And so the word coming out of the Etihad stadium was that when they got to that point it was viewed as a deal that was going to take them to a level financially that they weren't comfortable with. Given all the other business they want to do. Whether people want to believe that is is their prerogative. There is also a player preference in there. There's been no suggestion that Wirtz wanted to join Manchester City from, from Germany, from England or elsewhere. I, I don't remember seeing or hearing that anywhere. Not that he didn't want to join Manchester City either. The, the, the first thing we heard about his preference was really that he wanted to join Liverpool. You know, there was a reported trip that Wurtz took over to the UK and some people were saying it was to spend time at Manchester City. Then it emerged that he may have spent some time at Liverpool. I was told that it was to view properties in the Cheshire area ahead of a proposed move to, to Liverpool. And it may be that there's a bit of everything in this. Maybe Manchester City picked up on, on his preference, which we now know to have been Liverpool. Maybe the costs were onerous and and we're going to take them to a place that they decided against going to. And Manchester City have shown in the past that, you know, even if they did go for a player and either the costs were too high or they wanted to go elsewhere, I don't know, just say in the case of Harry Maguire, of was it Jorginho back in the day with Chelsea and various others, they tend to get a pretty good alternative. Their run of success is evidence of that. And given that Kevin de Bruyne is leaving and that creates a big hole in that creative area of the pitch, it's no surprise that City made this move for a player who's been high or at the top of their recruitment lists for that role for quite some time, as I understand it. But in, in the absence of him, which is a loss, I think, to Manchester City and to Bayern Munich, it's an opportunity for others to step forward. And, and, and Cherky is a top talent. Clearly there have been some questions, fairly or not, about his character. It's not for me to say he's actually addressed them publicly, but I don't think you get into the sort of France picture without being a pretty solid personality. And City would have done their due diligence on him, it goes without saying. In terms of conversations with people that know him, people that have worked with him, with him personally, none of City's signings come without Pep Guardiola's blessing. And so presumably he's been in some of this dialogue and you know, judging by the caliber of this 21 year old, I think they'll be, if and when they get it over the line, very happy with it.
- [31:33]
David Ornstein
Let's get a little bit more on Ryan Shirky. Speaking of due diligence, here's the Athletics, Alex Barker.
- [31:42]
H
I've been following Ray and Turki ever since he started breaking through at Lyon in 2019. Of course, this is when plenty of people started to hear about him. He was immediately touted as a potential superstar by the media.
- [31:55]
Adam Leventhal
Lyon turned to the 16 year old Ryan Shirky, seen as by far the brightest hope from their youth.
- [32:02]
H
Six years later, aged 21, I do think there's enough evidence to suggest that Tcherky is following through on that original hype. So to sum him up, Turkie is a number 10. He's at his best drifting across the pitch to pick up the ball, so sometimes in wide areas before driving towards the middle. He's got exceptional close control and he regularly tops the charts for stats like successful dribbles. What Chucky has added in the last 18 months or so, I'd say is serious end product. He ended last season with 19 goals and assists in the league. What makes Turky extra special is that he's genuinely two footed. Last season Turkie took exactly the same amount of shots with his left and his right foot.
- [32:39]
Phil Hay
Foot.
- [32:39]
H
He's still not perfect though you might have heard he's not the best when it comes to defending. With allegations of a poor work rate. I would push against that. I think Chucky's issue is that while he's a fast accelerator, he's not that quick over long distances and this means when he presses, he often lacks intensity. So I'm intrigued to see how Pep Guardiola accommodates this if he moves to City, given their issues with their press across last season. But overall, if he does move to City, I think it's a really exciting move for both fans of Matt Manchester City and just neutral fans as well because it's always nice to see an incredible talent thrive.
- [33:13]
David Ornstein
So that was the Athletics. Alex Barker in a bar. It sounded like it was. It was very nice indeed. I enjoyed the, the backdrop to that, to that piece. Phil, from your point of view, it's going to look different next season for Manchester City, obviously because Rodri is going to be back in that midfield. We've heard about Reinders coming in, maybe Shirky coming in as well, but there's going to be no Kevin de Bruyne in there. It's going to be fascinating to see how the shake up works out for Pep Guardiola.
- [33:42]
James Pearce
Yeah, I'm in two minds about this one. Although definitely leaning heavily towards the idea of Shirky being a top quality signing. There's loads to like about him. He's so skillful. He's a bit of a trickster and I love his flair. And I think if you're the Premier League, you chuff to bits about the idea of him and Wirtz dropping into the division in the same summer and it's basically immediate product enhancement. A little like Alex was saying. But I don't know whether we should be questioning how well a wild card like him, if it's fair to call him that, suits Guardiola. We saw it a little bit with Jack Grealish, the perceived process of Grealish being stripped of that kind of free spirit that he had at Aston Villa. Scherke definitely isn't a robot and I think he'll have to adapt in quite a big way to fit and to thrive under Guardiola. But all the Same. He'd be cheaper than Wirts by quite some distance and he's a very, very hard talent to resist.
- [34:32]
David Ornstein
Well, next up, we're going to discuss who else Manchester City are looking at and also the role of the Club World cup, which is coming up very, very soon, and how that's impacting these early deals.
- [34:45]
Adam Leventhal
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.
- [34:51]
Marc Maron
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [35:10]
Kristen Bell
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- [35:39]
Dax Shepard
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- [36:14]
Adam Leventhal
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventar.
- [36:20]
David Ornstein
So, David, we're going to stick with Manchester City and we mentioned him a little bit earlier on, didn't we? Wolves fullback Ryan Ait Nouri. Another name on the list for City is that one that's going to develop.
- [36:32]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, I expect Manchester City to sign Ryan Ait Nouri. The clubs still need to reach an agreement and similarly, City still have to strike a deal with the player. But all parties are confident that that will happen and. And I would expect it to unfold relatively swiftly. He is a player who has long been linked with City. He's done really well at Wolves. He's an Algeria international who you would imagine fits quite nicely into the Pep Guardiola system. Manchester City have been waiting a long time to sign a recognised Left back. And this is one I'm fully anticipating gets completed in the coming days.
- [37:13]
David Ornstein
Another player I wanted to ask you about, and we're moving away from Manchester City. Now, on Tuesday you reported about Jaden Sancho and the fact that Chelsea aren't going to be taking up the option of 25 million pounds as an obligation and they have to pay a 5 million pound penalty fee to almost free themselves from him. Where does that leave him and Chelsea ahead of the club welcome Cup?
- [37:39]
Adam Leventhal
Well, it is City related. There's a nice segue there because of course Sancho used to be at Manchester City, but a lot of time has passed since then with spells at Borussia Dortmund, Manchester United, Borussia Dortmund, Chelsea. And yeah, the deal that was struck on deadline day to bring Jaden Sancho to Stamford Bridge, I think was quite hurriedly rushed through. He was clearly surplus to requirements in the view of Eric Ten Haggard. Make of that what you will. And they put an obligation in to buy, which I understand was worth up to sort of £25 million they needed to finish, what was it, 14th or higher. And there was a clause put in there. Yeah, penalty, £5 million. If Chelsea decided against going through with that obligation. I think Sancho actually did pretty well on the whole. Scored in the Conference League final and is well regarded at Chelsea. Built some strong relationships. They are fond of him and vice versa. However, it was always going to come down to whether they could agree a deal with the player himself, because of course he's on a very handsome salary at Manchester United. It still has a year to go, that contract, I believe. And Chelsea, as we've reported in such detail, are trying to bring their wage bill down. They're giving lower base salaries with incentives, long contracts, and clearly that didn't fit well on paper with what Sancho earns at Manchester United. So Chelsea were paying, I think, a portion of his salary during this loan spell and they will have made an offer to him and no agreement has been reached on that offer. And I'm sure discussions took place to try and find some sort of compromise, but clearly there was too much distance and therefore the penalty will be paid and he will not continue at Chelsea. Whether he goes back to Manchester United, we'll have to wait and see because he'll have options and he'll be exploring those now. And it's plausible that an agreement is reached between Manchester United and another club to secure his departure without him needing to return to Manchester United. And in the meantime, Chelsea will go on and recruit in that area of the pitch. We know that they've got some interest in the likes of Alejandro Gacho, Manchester United, Jamie Gittins, Borussia Dortmund, and there will be multiple others. I've seen reports in recent days on Mohamed Kudos of West Ham. I reported on Chelsea's interest in him before he moved to West Ham and there'll be many more on their list too, so let's see what they do. But yeah, the Sancho and and Chelsea relationship is. Is over for now and. And it's up to Manchester United and the player in his camp to find a resolution to it.
- [40:28]
David Ornstein
What's your take on on the Sancho situation, Phil? A lot of chopping and changing over the last few seasons for him, hasn't there?
- [40:36]
James Pearce
Yeah, there has been. I think as time goes on, I put Sancho down as a player who is suffering and will probably always suffer from being overhyped several years ago. Every year. The Athletics has been in the habit of speaking to a bunch of agents at the end of each summer transfer window. And it's all off the record because they prefer to speak anonymously for obvious reasons. But I remember speaking to one in the summer when Manchester United signed Sancho and he didn't understand the deal at all. He thought Sancho was wildly overpriced. And I think he's been proven correct. He did okay at Chelsea, he was decent enough, but not much better than that. And he's a 25 year old who's been drifting for a little while now. Albeit his loan at Dortmund last season was actually a pretty good one. But Chelsea paying 5 million pounds not to sign him is both quite funny and also instructive. They just didn't want him that much, did they? Where he goes next, I have absolutely no idea. I mean, the odd thing is that Reuben Amaram hasn't actually had sight of him in the flesh at Old Trafford. So I suppose there's that little bit of you that questions whether he's completely done there, but I suspect he is and he needs a really good move this summer, somewhere where he can properly settle and find his groove again.
- [41:47]
David Ornstein
And David, just one final question that I wanted to ask you and it concerns Bellingham. Bellingham job Bellingham of Sunderland potentially heading to Borussia Dortmund, following in the footsteps of his. Of his brother. Is that. Is that a goer?
- [42:01]
Adam Leventhal
I've not worked on this story, but Seb staffer Blur, one of our colleagues has. He wrote the story on the Athletic that Borussia Dortmund are confident that they're going to land Jobe Bellingham, which would be an amazing signing. He had a really impressive season in the championship with Sunderland, helped them to Premier League promotion. I think that a tinge of sadness in anybody who is of a Sunderland or Premier League persuasion that if this goes through, we're not going to see him here, at least next season. But it's a path well traveled by his sibling Jude to spectacular effect. An amazing step in his career. And so the player, the family representatives that they will be really reassured by the fact that it's familiar territory if it happens. And you know, there are reports that there's personal terms agreed. I'm not sure of that at the moment. Certainly it doesn't seem there's an agreement so far between the clubs. But look, if the player wants that and you know, of course he's, he's still got a contract at Sunderland, but if that's his preference and the right offer comes in, it seems that could well be the direction of travel. There has been some interest from Eintracht Frankfurt. I'm sure many more suitors as well. We've seen Crystal palace in the past who have been credited with interest in him. But. But maybe that step to Germany and everything that comes with it before potentially going elsewhere to even greater heights is something that they want to embark upon. And if it does happen, be a bit gutted not to see him on these shores. We may do in the future. But ultimately you wish him well because he seems the latest Bellingham star in the making for club and country.
- [43:43]
David Ornstein
Yeah, the family have been there, done it and they've got the T shirt much like the the Borussia Dortmund fans who can maybe reuse some of their old ones when, when he arrives or if and when he arrives in Germany. David, thank you very much for your insight to Phil as well. It's been a pleasure having you on to James Pearce earlier on as well when we were discussing Liverpool. Thank you very much for listening and we are going to be back on Friday. We'll catch you there.
- [44:09]
Adam Leventhal
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [44:37]
Marc Maron
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [44:56]
Kristen Bell
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Adam Leventhal
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Kristen Bell
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